SpaceX Vehicles and Missions > SpaceX Early Days Archive Section
SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
Robotbeat:
--- Quote from: Gravity Ray on 04/05/2011 05:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: kevin-rf on 04/05/2011 02:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: ChefPat on 04/05/2011 12:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Antares on 04/05/2011 01:43 am ---
Cue the amazing people and their BEO Dragon comments.
--- End quote ---
Does this statement have any purpose other than to insult contributors to this site?
--- End quote ---
I thought it was quite insightful. Falcon Heavy is not for Dragon and most likely not for manned flight in general. It is for going after the payloads that Falcon 9 can not.
--- End quote ---
Your statement is technically correct, but woefully lacks what has been beaten out of most HSF enthusiasts by ULA et al that you should not have a vision about HSF.
...
--- End quote ---
You are woefully wrong about ULA. ULA has presented some very ambitious HSF plans, especially the rather comprehensive lunar plan based on its proposed ACES upper stage (including an ACES-derived lander and propellant depot...). Quite visionary, in my opinion.
Gravity Ray:
Sorry, I am not wrong about ULA (with all due respect to all ULA employees here). This is not about me calling out ULA employees, this is about calling out ULA management.
EELV – NASA/Air Force
Budget increase +30% to 1.74 Billion in FY2012
No competition. Lockheed & Boeing = ULA = Monopoly. No incentive to reduce cost or innovate.
ULA has 1 Billion / year subsidy to simply sustain the EELV program. Launch or no Launch
ULA 2012 at 1.74 Billion @ 4 launches = $435 Million / launch = No Vision for HSF.
Falcon Heavy ~125 Million / launch = Vision for HSF.
ULA relies on government. SpaceX relies on commercial launch market (they will live or die based on their services and success rate)
Look, you can create the most grandiose visions about the Moon, but if the price is the Moon you will not get off the Earth.
kevin-rf:
--- Quote from: Gravity Ray on 04/05/2011 06:09 pm ---Sorry, I am not wrong about ULA (with all due respect to all ULA employees here). This is not about me calling out ULA employees, this is about calling out ULA management.
EELV – NASA/Air Force
Budget increase +30% to 1.74 Billion in FY2012
No competition. Lockheed & Boeing = ULA = Monopoly. No incentive to reduce cost or innovate.
ULA has 1 Billion / year subsidy to simply sustain the EELV program. Launch or no Launch
ULA 2012 at 1.74 Billion @ 4 launches = $435 Million / launch = No Vision for HSF.
Falcon Heavy ~125 Million / launch = Vision for HSF.
ULA relies on government. SpaceX relies on commercial launch market (they will live or die based on their services and success rate)
Look, you can create the most grandiose visions about the Moon, but if the price is the Moon you will not get off the Earth.
--- End quote ---
How do this R&D by ULA fit into that?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=19033.msg712566#msg712566
They might not be as aggressive as many would want, but they are making some effort. The P&W issue is big and they need an alternative.
spacetraveler:
--- Quote from: Gravity Ray on 04/05/2011 06:09 pm ---Sorry, I am not wrong about ULA (with all due respect to all ULA employees here). This is not about me calling out ULA employees, this is about calling out ULA management.
[snip]
--- End quote ---
Actually it appears to be just about you copying the info in the SpaceX press release/website on Falcon Heavy and presenting it as your own analysis rather than giving appropriate attribution.
MikeAtkinson:
--- Quote from: Gravity Ray on 04/05/2011 05:43 pm ---I suspect that any Mars mission envisioned by Mr. Musk will be a multi-launch, rendezvous in orbit for the trip to Mars type.
--- End quote ---
Musk has said several times that he thinks a 150 tonne rocket is desirable for Mars missions. Probably Mars missions could be done with FH, but they might be difficult due to size, volume or mass limits of the FH.
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