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DiggyCoxwell
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« on: 02/03/2010 11:54 PM » |
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I'll see about digging up the URL for the news story
quoting Eric Anderson, CEO of "Space Adventures";
the company that connects rich men and women
who want to journey into space onboard a Soyuz
spacecraft and booster, saying that the company
already has a "customer" apparently willing to pay
the 100 million dollar price tag to be launched
to circumnavigate the Moon by a modified Russian (lunar) Soyuz spacecraft
to be linked up in LEO with a upperstage booster (Briz-M? Block-D?)
launched by a Proton (or Angara?).
If Eric Anderson is on the level (and not expressing wishful thinking, fingers crossed) then we may see the first "Lunar tourist"
accompanied by Russian cosmonauts before?
2020?... 2017?... 2015?
Take a pick.
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« on: 02/03/2010 11:54 PM » |
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DiggyCoxwell
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« Reply #1 on: 02/03/2010 11:58 PM » |
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The URL with the story is: http://www.space.com/news/050810_dse_alpha.htmlUnfortunately, Eric Anderson does not say who the alleged very-wealthy individual is. I suspect the individual is one of these Russian billionaires. Perhaps Anik could clue us in.
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npuentes
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« Reply #2 on: 02/04/2010 01:19 PM » |
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I've always wondered about the business model for this, as well as the idea of procuring a 5th Soyuz dedicated to taking two tourists (with a Russian cosmonaut commander) to the ISS. On previous tourists flights, the Soyuzs were planned to fly anyway, with Space Adventures simply purchasing a seat. With the 5th Soyuz or lunar Soyuz/Zond flight, someone needs to come up with the money to develop the spacecraft in the first place. Either SA has to get the $30M (ISS flight)-$100M (Moon) from their customer, or a loan, to pay the Russians upfront, or Russia needs to fund this from their own pocket first, with the hope of getting paid back by SA later. It seems like a chicken-egg problem. Does anyone know if these details have been sorted out?
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Ben the Space Brit
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« Reply #3 on: 02/04/2010 01:33 PM » |
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So, what would be the launch configuration for this? A Soyuz on top of a Proton-M? Or can BRIZ-M be fit on top of the R7?
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Nicolas PILLET
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« Reply #5 on: 02/04/2010 04:08 PM » |
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I suspect the individual is one of these Russian billionaires.
Perhaps Anik could clue us in.
Maybe anik IS the lunar tourist ! 
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Downix
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« Reply #6 on: 02/04/2010 05:02 PM » |
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So, what would be the launch configuration for this? A Soyuz on top of a Proton-M? Or can BRIZ-M be fit on top of the R7?
Proton has launched with a Zond module before, a few times. never crewed unless you believe those Lost Cosmonaut conspiracy theories.
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cd-slam
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« Reply #7 on: 02/04/2010 05:21 PM » |
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If you click on those links, you'll see that Space Adventures is not proposing a reflight of the Zond program. They use a standard Soyuz to launch the crew and Zenit (in their animation) to launch the EDS, with docking in Earth orbit. It's EOR as von Braun imagined it. 
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collectSPACE
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« Reply #8 on: 02/04/2010 09:10 PM » |
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The Space.com article was updated:
Editor's note: This story has been corrected to reflect that space tourism firm Space Adventures has not yet booked a private moon flight, but is still offering the service to potential customers.
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clb22
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« Reply #9 on: 02/04/2010 09:19 PM » |
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It would be quite a stunt, but it still looks like only a remote possibility at some far out time in the future. The Russians need to invest quite something into the mission architecture, it's not like they have done that before (Zond was not only launched unmanned, but also on only one rocket).
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npuentes
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« Reply #10 on: 02/05/2010 01:12 PM » |
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It would be quite a stunt, but it still looks like only a remote possibility at some far out time in the future. The Russians need to invest quite something into the mission architecture, it's not like they have done that before (Zond was not only launched unmanned, but also on only one rocket).
This was exactly my point above. I don't see how, using a purely business base, that you can fund such an expensive endeavor. Either the Russians have to put some capital in at first, with the hope of getting paid later, or SA needs to get a loan or have a rich person fork over $100M+ and wait many years for the "product."
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Ben the Space Brit
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« Reply #11 on: 02/05/2010 02:53 PM » |
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If you click on those links, you'll see that Space Adventures is not proposing a reflight of the Zond program.
They use a standard Soyuz to launch the crew and Zenit (in their animation) to launch the EDS, with docking in Earth orbit. Ouch! What is it with all current cis-Lunar schemes and 'eyes-out' Earth departure burns? 
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William Barton
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« Reply #12 on: 02/05/2010 03:11 PM » |
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It would be quite a stunt, but it still looks like only a remote possibility at some far out time in the future. The Russians need to invest quite something into the mission architecture, it's not like they have done that before (Zond was not only launched unmanned, but also on only one rocket).
This was exactly my point above. I don't see how, using a purely business base, that you can fund such an expensive endeavor. Either the Russians have to put some capital in at first, with the hope of getting paid later, or SA needs to get a loan or have a rich person fork over $100M+ and wait many years for the "product."
I think if SA had several customers standing in line for the ride, this would work out. But they don't. It seems a week at ISS followed by another week looping around the Moon isn't worth $100mln to anyone who has it to spare. This time last year there were 793 people who presumably could scrape together $100mln and not miss it too badly. Other than Sergei Brin, I don't see any candidates on that top 25 list. And at least half the people on the top 25 list are over 50. My guess is, by the time you got done winnowing the people who are uninterested in space and those who aren't fit enough to go, the whole list of 793 would be very small indeed. Maybe in the single digits. Which would explain the absense of takers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_billionaires
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cd-slam
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« Reply #13 on: 02/05/2010 04:26 PM » |
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Ouch! What is it with all current cis-Lunar schemes and 'eyes-out' Earth departure burns?
I wondered about that too when I saw their animation. I rather doubt if the standard Soyuz and its solar panels could stand the loads from EDS burn, in that "rear-first" configuration. Anything's possible I suppose. Sounds like a fun ride but I'm a bit short of the price tag...
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Danderman
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« Reply #14 on: 02/05/2010 04:36 PM » |
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Ouch! What is it with all current cis-Lunar schemes and 'eyes-out' Earth departure burns?
I wondered about that too when I saw their animation. I rather doubt if the standard Soyuz and its solar panels could stand the loads from EDS burn, in that "rear-first" configuration. Anything's possible I suppose.
Sounds like a fun ride but I'm a bit short of the price tag...
I don't know about the SA system, but Proton has a very nice upper stage called "Briz-M" with an engine that puts out only 2,000 kg thrust. Given the 20 ton mass of Briz-M, and the 7 ton Soyuz, the acceleration of that stack would be minimal.
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