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bluebert
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« Reply #60 on: 02/05/2010 12:27 PM » |
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so just finished is my 1/144 Atlas V 421 with HL-20
My first reaction to the looks of this configuraration is: interesting aerodynamics...  Wings on the top of a rocket may give quite some side-load when moving through the atmosphere at high speed.
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gospacex
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« Reply #61 on: 02/05/2010 12:48 PM » |
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so just finished is my 1/144 Atlas V 421 with HL-20
My first reaction to the looks of this configuraration is: interesting aerodynamics...
Wings on the top of a rocket may give quite some side-load when moving through the atmosphere at high speed.
Just set it up at AOA which results in zero lift.
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butters
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« Reply #62 on: 02/05/2010 01:07 PM » |
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so just finished is my 1/144 Atlas V 421 with HL-20
My first reaction to the looks of this configuraration is: interesting aerodynamics...
Wings on the top of a rocket may give quite some side-load when moving through the atmosphere at high speed.
Just set it up at AOA which results in zero lift.
Does HL-20 generate lift at zero AOA? It could have symmetric camber airfoils that depends on positive AOA for lift. I could be mistaken, but I think HL-10 had symmetric airfoils.
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Jim
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« Reply #63 on: 02/05/2010 02:02 PM » |
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They could y'know: guess who adminsters the launch sites and facilities...!
Incorrect, NASA has no say in the pads or facilities on CCAFS
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Jim
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« Reply #64 on: 02/05/2010 02:05 PM » |
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For the CRS contract, both Orbital and SpaceX were chosen. So I would suspect that it would be the same for commercial crew. For example, you could have both SpaceX and the Atlas V winning the commercial crew transportation contract .
No, the contract will be with the spacecraft and they will select the launch vehicle
Apparently Boeing's capsule would work with many rockets. This means that Boeing could then chose between SpaceX and ULA?
It would seem odd that Boeing would make this choice for NASA.
The contract will be for crew launch services, not a spacecraft, the contractor will be responsible for providing the whole package, end to end, launch vehicle, spacecraft, launch site, etc
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Jim
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« Reply #65 on: 02/05/2010 02:07 PM » |
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I guess as long as NASA is satisfied that the LV is man-rated (after NASA defines this by implementing safety regulations). In any event, I suppose that Boeing would choose a ULA rocket given its participation in that company.
So the choice would be between the crewed Dragon (Falcon 9), the Boeing capsule (using a ULA rocket) and the Dream Chaser (using a ULA Atlas V 402 rocket).
The whole package will have to be looked at, not just the LV I wouldn't say that is all the choices. OSC. LM, NG, etc might offer something.
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Downix
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« Reply #66 on: 02/05/2010 02:07 PM » |
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For the CRS contract, both Orbital and SpaceX were chosen. So I would suspect that it would be the same for commercial crew. For example, you could have both SpaceX and the Atlas V winning the commercial crew transportation contract .
No, the contract will be with the spacecraft and they will select the launch vehicle
Apparently Boeing's capsule would work with many rockets. This means that Boeing could then chose between SpaceX and ULA?
It would seem odd that Boeing would make this choice for NASA.
The contract will be for crew launch services, not a spacecraft, the contractor will be responsible for providing the whole package, end to end, launch vehicle, spacecraft, launch site, etc
Much like FedEx. We don't ask weither FedEx delivers on a truck, van, or orbital space gun, we just ask "hey, can you deliver this by date xyz?"
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yg1968
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« Reply #67 on: 02/05/2010 03:00 PM » |
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I guess as long as NASA is satisfied that the LV is man-rated (after NASA defines this by implementing safety regulations). In any event, I suppose that Boeing would choose a ULA rocket given its participation in that company.
So the choice would be between the crewed Dragon (Falcon 9), the Boeing capsule (using a ULA rocket) and the Dream Chaser (using a ULA Atlas V 402 rocket).
The whole package will have to be looked at, not just the LV
I wouldn't say that is all the choices. OSC. LM, NG, etc might offer something.
I am not sure that I understand, you first told me the spacecraft maker chooses the LV. Now you are telling me that NASA would choose the whole package?
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Jim
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« Reply #68 on: 02/05/2010 03:14 PM » |
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I guess as long as NASA is satisfied that the LV is man-rated (after NASA defines this by implementing safety regulations). In any event, I suppose that Boeing would choose a ULA rocket given its participation in that company.
So the choice would be between the crewed Dragon (Falcon 9), the Boeing capsule (using a ULA rocket) and the Dream Chaser (using a ULA Atlas V 402 rocket).
The whole package will have to be looked at, not just the LV
I wouldn't say that is all the choices. OSC. LM, NG, etc might offer something.
I am not sure that I understand, you first told me the spacecraft maker chooses the LV. Now you are telling me that NASA would choose the whole package?
As part of the evaluation, NASA would look at the LV that the contractor team proposes. The contractor team might have a great spacecraft concept but their LV choice or implementation may be lacking. Hence "the whole package will be looked at". but to be truly a crew launch service, NASA can't pick and match spacecraft and LV's from different proposals unless those combinations are offered. This is conjecture, the actual procurement strategy will determine this.
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yg1968
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« Reply #69 on: 02/05/2010 03:16 PM » |
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OK, thanks. That makes sense. But apparently Boeing indicated that their capsule works with a number of rockets.
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Downix
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« Reply #70 on: 02/05/2010 03:29 PM » |
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OK, thanks. That makes sense. But apparently Boeing indicated that their capsule works with a number of rockets.
Makes complete sense for them to do so, that way they can better position it against their competition.
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infocat13
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« Reply #71 on: 02/05/2010 03:57 PM » |
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I have been searching the net for a good software program to model launcher images to learn how to model a Delta IV heavy with a 3 segment ATK shuttle SRB. came across this, http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/377875main_081109%20Human%20Rated%20Delta%20IV.pdfan interesting read on Human rating the Delta look at the costs analysis on page page 54 comparing Delta and Ares I page 41 on the document
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Bernie Roehl
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« Reply #72 on: 02/05/2010 04:09 PM » |
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I wouldn't say that is all the choices. OSC. LM, NG, etc might offer something.
I'm doubt if OSC will offer anything, unless pressured to by their investors. It would just be too costly for them to enter the manned orbital spaceflight game at this point. LM could offer a craft based on their work on Orion, essentially going head-to-head with Boeing. I haven't heard much about Northrop-Grumman lately. I vaguely recall that they bought Scaled Composites a couple of years back, but other than that, I have no idea what they're doing.
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bad_astra
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« Reply #73 on: 02/05/2010 04:36 PM » |
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NG/OSC teamed up for their OSP proposal. It was a good looking spaceplane, atop an D4H, no shroud.
By the time of CEV, NG's offering didn't look all that different from Orion.
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Ben the Space Brit
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« Reply #74 on: 02/05/2010 05:16 PM » |
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By the time of CEV, NG's offering didn't look all that different from Orion.
NASA had decided that a winged or lifting body crew vehicle was inferior for the CEV mission. That is why all the designs were basically similar to Orion - Apollo-style capsules.
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