Author Topic: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3  (Read 1209683 times)

Offline kraisee

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DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« on: 11/19/2009 10:27 pm »
It's that time again -- 250 pages in the last thread means it is time to start *another* new thread! :)

I can't believe just how many pages of comments this topic has created in total.   Truly amazing and humbling.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline sewand

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #1 on: 11/19/2009 10:38 pm »
We're really waiting for a thread called "DIRECT Wins!"

Offline 2552

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #2 on: 11/19/2009 10:47 pm »
It's that time again -- 250 pages in the last thread means it is time to start *another* new thread! :)

I can't believe just how many pages of comments this topic has created in total.   Truly amazing and humbling.

Ross.

And over 400,000 views too ;D

Offline kraisee

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #3 on: 11/19/2009 10:49 pm »
To start this thread off in a rather unusual way, I'm going to reveal a little bit of news.   We are all in a holding-pattern waiting to see what comes out of the Bolden study, so this has actually allowed us to examine some off-shoot opportunities which have come along recently.

I can't reveal many details, but following this 4 year volunteer effort, the DIRECT Team is currently beginning to form a new team -- a new Commercial Team.

Some existing members and some new ones will, in the new year, be forming a new Corporation intending to create and produce commercial space products.

We already have a source for major investment to support us with substantial seed money and operating capital.

At this time we are investigating the extremely wide range of products which we could possibly produce.   There are a lot of possibilities and while launch vehicles are an obvious direction for us to consider, we are keeping all of our options open.

So I guess I'll leave that there and turn this over for discussion.   Let the speculation begin!!

LOL :)

Ross.

PS -- Don't expect to hear much about this until some time in the new year.   "DIRECT" remains our primary focus right now, and when the Bolden study comes out we expect to be busy on this for a while so the commercial operation will go on a back-burner again.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2009 10:53 pm by kraisee »
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
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Offline Downix

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #4 on: 11/19/2009 11:02 pm »
To start this thread off in a rather unusual way, I'm going to reveal a little bit of news.   We are all in a holding-pattern waiting to see what comes out of the Bolden study, so this has actually allowed us to examine some off-shoot opportunities which have come along recently.

I can't reveal many details, but following this 4 year volunteer effort, the DIRECT Team is currently beginning to form a new team -- a new Commercial Team.

Some existing members and some new ones will, in the new year, be forming a new Corporation intending to create and produce commercial space products.

We already have a source for major investment to support us with substantial seed money and operating capital.

At this time we are investigating the extremely wide range of products which we could possibly produce.   There are a lot of possibilities and while launch vehicles are an obvious direction for us to consider, we are keeping all of our options open.

So I guess I'll leave that there and turn this over for discussion.   Let the speculation begin!!

LOL :)

Ross.

PS -- Don't expect to hear much about this until some time in the new year.   "DIRECT" remains our primary focus right now, and when the Bolden study comes out we expect to be busy on this for a while so the commercial operation will go on a back-burner again.
If there is anything you want or need, just say the word.  I am good at webserver setup fyi.
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Offline Bill White

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #5 on: 11/19/2009 11:24 pm »
I wish to offer a potential application for Commercial DIRECT:

Support an EML-1 transfer station and reusable lunar lander(s) that can provide logistical support to various private sector and non-U.S. national governments that might wish to try their hand at prospecting and extracting water and other volatiles from locations near the lunar South Pole.

Very recent LRO data suggests there are multiple craters that might contain significant quantities of water. Let different players try their hand in different locations, all supported by a DIRECT supported EML-1 logistical pipeline.
EML architectures should be seen as ratchet opportunities

Offline robertross

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #6 on: 11/19/2009 11:25 pm »

I can't reveal many details, but following this 4 year volunteer effort, the DIRECT Team is currently beginning to form a new team -- a new Commercial Team.

Some existing members and some new ones will, in the new year, be forming a new Corporation intending to create and produce commercial space products.

We already have a source for major investment to support us with substantial seed money and operating capital.


Way to go, and good luck!!

Offline robertross

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #7 on: 11/19/2009 11:28 pm »
I wish to offer a potential application for Commercial DIRECT:

Support an EML-1 transfer station and reusable lunar lander(s) that can provide logistical support to various private sector and non-U.S. national governments that might wish to try their hand at prospecting and extracting water and other volatiles from locations near the lunar South Pole.

Very recent LRO data suggests there are multiple craters that might contain significant quantities of water. Let different players try their hand in different locations, all supported by a DIRECT supported EML-1 logistical pipeline.

I was going to create a thread, but figured it best for Ross to handle that one:
"Direct spin-off commercial ideas"  ??

We don't need to clutter up this thread. They always have a hard enough time staying on HLV, let alone space...

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #8 on: 11/19/2009 11:28 pm »
We're really waiting for a thread called "DIRECT Wins!"

Unfortunately, DIRECT has already lost.  Shuttle is ending in 5 or at most 6 flights, Ares isn't ready and isn't going to be ready, and the EELV folks haven't really even started to work on the problem.  The ET production folks are gone and we're going to have a catastrophic gap in HSF in this country.  Constellation has killed HSF.  We'll likely end up with no heavy lift vehicle and no exploration program and spend tens of billions of dollars developing a capability we already have in Atlas and Delta.

I'm disgusted, to say the least.

Offline kraisee

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #9 on: 11/19/2009 11:52 pm »
After a PM just now, I just wanted to make something very clear:   The new commercial operation is *not* planning to operate Jupiter vehicles as a commercial venture.   All that hardware is already owned and operated by other organizations.   We're going to do something new.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Downix

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #10 on: 11/19/2009 11:59 pm »
After a PM just now, I just wanted to make something very clear:   The new commercial operation is *not* planning to operate Jupiter vehicles as a commercial venture.   All that hardware is already owned and operated by other organizations.   We're going to do something new.

Ross.
Astronaut Bobble Heads?
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #11 on: 11/20/2009 12:01 am »
Hmm.

I'm guessing you are looking at some kind of 'kit' product; very standardized components.

High(ish) temperature parts made from Ali castings at a guess, especially going on what you have talked about recently. Certainly lets you leverage existing production setups.

As you asked for names before, try Katech, Grainger & Worrall and Ricardo.
« Last Edit: 11/20/2009 12:23 am by bobthemonkey »

Offline robertross

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #12 on: 11/20/2009 12:05 am »
Maybe inexpensive ISS sample return capsules??  :)

Offline Downix

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #13 on: 11/20/2009 12:06 am »
Hmm.

I'm guessing you are looking at some kind of 'kit' product; very standardized components.

High(ish) temperature parts made from Ali castings at a guess, especially going on what you have talked about recently. Certainly lets you leverage existing production setups.

As you asked for names before, try Katech, Worral and Gardner and Ricardo.
A kit rocket?  Hmm...

NK-33's with a core booster design, modular approach, which can be strapped together, or with SRB as needed?

I remember reading once that the NK-33 could be re-usable, no idea if it is true tho.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline kraisee

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #14 on: 11/20/2009 12:13 am »
Astronaut Bobble Heads?

You better be collecting your coat after that one 'cause I'm comin' for ya!

;)

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Jorge

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #15 on: 11/20/2009 12:28 am »
After a PM just now, I just wanted to make something very clear:   The new commercial operation is *not* planning to operate Jupiter vehicles as a commercial venture.   All that hardware is already owned and operated by other organizations.   We're going to do something new.

Very wise. Many people working on Direct are NASA contractor employees working on their own time; if this proposed venture competes with any business line of those contractors, it would violate conflict-of-interest clauses in their employment agreements and they could be sued if they worked on it - even on their own time - while still employed.
JRF

Online Eric Hedman

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #16 on: 11/20/2009 12:29 am »
Astronaut Bobble Heads?

You better be collecting your coat after that one 'cause I'm comin' for ya!

;)

Ross.
Is it a commercially owned and operated propellant depot?

Offline robertross

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #17 on: 11/20/2009 01:09 am »

Is it a commercially owned and operated propellant depot?

I thought that too, but figured the cost implications would be enormous.

But considering that the Direct proposal to the Augustine Commission was a key player in having Propellant Depots as an important & effective enabling technology for the future of spaceflight, it seems fitting to be a part of it.

Offline kraisee

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #18 on: 11/20/2009 01:17 am »
Nothing is off-the-table yet -- well, except a commercial Jupiter, for the reasons correctly noted earlier by Jorge :)

To use NASA-speak; "the trade space is very large".   We have a truly golden opportunity to develop whatever we choose, from satellite buses to crewed spacecraft, from sounding rockets to heavy lifters.   Nothing is off the table.   More importantly, our backing appears to be strong enough to allow us to consider more than one of the above.

It is a most interesting opportunity for us.

Ross.
« Last Edit: 11/20/2009 01:18 am by kraisee »
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
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Online Eric Hedman

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Re: DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 3
« Reply #19 on: 11/20/2009 01:23 am »

Is it a commercially owned and operated propellant depot?

I thought that too, but figured the cost implications would be enormous.

But considering that the Direct proposal to the Augustine Commission was a key player in having Propellant Depots as an important & effective enabling technology for the future of spaceflight, it seems fitting to be a part of it.
He did say they have a source of "major investment".  Designing a depot based on the needs of what ever architecture is chosen could position a venture for a COTS like funding model.  It makes sense to me.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.  Whatever it is I wish them luck.  I know what is involved in getting a business going.  It can be both overwhelming and rewarding.

P.S. Ross if you need any help putting a business plan together let me know.  I've written a number of them.

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