Author Topic: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011  (Read 427051 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Welcome to the site's forum Bruno! Same goes for some other more active members on this thread - it's appreciated!

Fingers crossed for good news on the mission.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27033
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6927
  • Likes Given: 4888
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #381 on: 11/08/2011 11:28 PM »
According to the See Sat L satellite mailing list, the spacecraft have been found in the same orbit as before the burn, after the planned burn time.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
:C

Might not be the spacecraft itself, though.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22327
  • Liked: 608
  • Likes Given: 244
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #382 on: 11/08/2011 11:35 PM »
According to the See Sat L satellite mailing list, the spacecraft have been found in the same orbit as before the burn, after the planned burn time.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
:C

Might not be the spacecraft itself, though.

two objects:

Quote
After the planned first burn of the engine, the spacecraft was not found in the predicted orbit. Alternative radar
observations preliminarily show that there are two objects in the orbit with parameters the same as before the planned
engine burn. Observers are requested to attempt to discover the spacecraft in the initial LEO parking orbit.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline Cbased

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Melbourne, Australia
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #383 on: 11/08/2011 11:45 PM »
http://phobos.cosmos.ru/index.php?id=388&L=0&view=single_thread&cat_uid=1&conf_uid=1&thread_uid=21&page=2

"ЧП, нет телеметрии"

No telemetry :(

ЧП means Чрезвычайное Происшествие (something that could be translated as extraordinary/unplanned event)

Still hoping for the best
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 11:49 PM by Cbased »

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #384 on: 11/08/2011 11:46 PM »
Quote
Author: Anton Ledkov
Published: November 9, 2011 - 3:42

ChP(off-nominal situation), no telemetry
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 11:47 PM by pm1823 »

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27033
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6927
  • Likes Given: 4888
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #385 on: 11/08/2011 11:47 PM »
How do you swear in Russian?

I was really hoping this would be successful. Might still be a chance to salvage this somehow since the upper stage is solar-powered, right? If the spacecraft can receive commands and transmit responses, there's still a chance...
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 11:50 PM by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline cro-magnon gramps

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1471
  • Very Ancient Caveman
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 637
  • Likes Given: 4631
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #386 on: 11/08/2011 11:49 PM »
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_launch.html

this page has an orbital map for the mission, with burn times; not sure about posting the actual map; erring on the side of caution, to avoid the sin-bin ;)
"Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in the world, but it has not solved one yet." Maya Angelou
 Tony Benn: "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself."

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #387 on: 11/08/2011 11:53 PM »
How do you swear in Russian?

I was really hoping this would be successful. Might still be a chance to salvage this somehow since the upper stage is solar-powered, right? If the spacecraft can receive commands and transmit responses, there's still a chance...

it's still on orbit and have power, waiting some watchdog-timer to reset...

Offline yaroslav

  • Member
  • Posts: 62
  • Kyiv, Ukraine
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #388 on: 11/08/2011 11:58 PM »
it's still on orbit and have power, waiting some watchdog-timer to reset...
it could be also engine failure ((


Offline the_roche_lobe

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #389 on: 11/08/2011 11:58 PM »
...P-G we hardly knew you... (God it seems like 96 all over again)

...I know I know its not all over yet....

p

Offline russianhalo117

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3863
  • AR USA / Berlin, DE / Moscow, RF
  • Liked: 755
  • Likes Given: 463
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #390 on: 11/08/2011 11:58 PM »
According to the See Sat L satellite mailing list, the spacecraft have been found in the same orbit as before the burn, after the planned burn time.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
:C

Might not be the spacecraft itself, though.

My friend at U.S. Deep Space Network's control center provides the following:
U.S. DSN's Goldstone Antenna Complex received one ping from Spacecraft. SC performed TM downlink via all available channels, this is indicating an anomaly detected by SC computer. During SC testing, Roscosmos inserted an SC slew commanding sequence in the flight program to point the SC's antennas toward the North (to be pointing at U.S., European, Russian ground stations) in the event of a problem before the burn(s) so that data can be more quickly obtained. This allows them to analyze the data and try again another day since MDU is completely powered by SC's solar panels. Goldstone DSN is indicating that SC is in a contingency safe mode. Contact was lost at planned LOS (with no first burn) and was picked up by Europe's first tracking station, TM unreadable at moment. Sun pointing for solar panels cannot be confirmed at this time (may not have been established before battery charging was commenced by flight computer). SC can be commanded to reset if need be.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 12:09 AM by russianhalo117 »

Offline BrunoQuiocca

  • Member
  • Posts: 19
  • Brazil
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #391 on: 11/09/2011 12:07 AM »
Bruno, this adds IMMENSELY to this discussion, multo obrigado, and thank you. We are watching this launching with special anxieties and you have helped give us better feelings.

If you hear of any other news media coverage -- radio, TV -- about other sightings, please, PLEASE relay them to us here as quickly as you can.

The timing and direction of your sighting is important, to make sure it really was the probe and not a coincidence with aircraft.

Email me separately if you want some of my research reports about OTHER rockets that were seen in the skies over Brazil, in years past. Mostly, people thought they were OVNIs.

Jim O -- very grateful to you!

jamesEoberg@comcast.net





Wow! Thanks!! I like a lot to see satellites, specially the ISS. Love to look up to the sky right after the sunset, the best time to do it. Altrough i still don't have any gear to do that... YET.
So, now i'm at home, on a pc and a proper internet conection.

Our exact position when we saw the spacecraft was 24 56 44.83 S / 53 30 29.95 W. It wasn't exacly upright related to our point of view, but was very near to that. It was heading nort-east. The other satellite I saw was heading north and was about 70~80 degrees above the horizon line.

About the spacecraft: The first object was brighter than the second one, and was catching speed, relating to the second object. I saw them for about 20 seconds before they fade behind a light cloud that was illuminated by the moon (that right now dissipated completely ).

It's hard for me to say the distance they were from each other by the time i saw, but it already should be a few miles away.

Holy Sh**! I rushed to post perfectly what i've seen, and then went to read the topic. So what I saw was the spacecraft already out of control? The difference of distance between the objects on these few seconds that I saw, as little as it was appearing, should it be different?
« Last Edit: 11/10/2011 09:30 AM by BrunoQuiocca »

Online Chris Bergin

According to the See Sat L satellite mailing list, the spacecraft have been found in the same orbit as before the burn, after the planned burn time.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
:C

Might not be the spacecraft itself, though.

My friend at U.S. Deep Space Network's control center provides the following:
U.S. DSN's Goldstone Antenna Complex received one ping from Spacecraft. SC performed TM downlink via all available channels, this is indicating an anomaly detected by SC computer. During SC testing, Roscosmos inserted an SC slew commanding sequence in the flight program to point the SC's antennas toward the North (to be pointing at U.S., European, Russian ground stations) in the event of a problem before the burn(s) so that data can be more quickly obtained. This allows them to analyze the data and try again another day since MDU is completely powered by SC's solar panels. Goldstone DSN is indicating that SC is in a contingency safe mode. Contact was lost at planned LOS (with no first burn) and was picked up by Europe's first tracking station, TM unreadable at moment. Sun pointing for solar panels may not have been established before battery charging was commenced by flight computer. SC can be commanded to reset if need be.

Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

Online Svetoslav

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 970
  • Bulgaria
  • Liked: 355
  • Likes Given: 48
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #393 on: 11/09/2011 12:18 AM »
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0071.html

Phobos-Soil:

Some indications are that it may be in "safe mode".  Let's hope.

Would be passing observers in Ecuador at the moment - only visible if there
was an engine plume.

Offline Peter NASA

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1083
  • SOMD
  • Liked: 1967
  • Likes Given: 55
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #394 on: 11/09/2011 12:20 AM »
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0071.html

Phobos-Soil:

Some indications are that it may be in "safe mode".  Let's hope.

Would be passing observers in Ecuador at the moment - only visible if there
was an engine plume.


Sounds like he's copying off the RussianHalo post! Some people don't accredit to make themselves seem more informed.

We won't be long from the schedule for the second burn, which will take it into heliocentric orbit?

Offline JPL-Jones

  • Member
  • Posts: 34
  • Liked: 88
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #395 on: 11/09/2011 12:26 AM »
Correct :(

I'm not in, but I can make a few phone calls. Want a L2 thread for internal updates Chris?

Offline Moe Grills

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
  • Liked: 25
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #396 on: 11/09/2011 12:26 AM »
Quote
Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

  It's parking orbit will certainly keep it up there for a few more days,
 but not much more.
  And the Russians do have better computers and software than they had in 1996.

  But there is the problem of Solar orientation for the F-G solar panels.
And even if it has reliable power and is perhaps in a safe mode,
and if the Russians were able to reestablish communication with it
how would they know how much mass the orbiting-assembly has now (something separated & drifted off the craft)?
  They can't just fire up the rocket motors on that orbiting craft without knowing all the details and expect a successful TMI.
 
 
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 12:28 AM by Moe Grills »

Online Chris Bergin

Correct :(

I'm not in, but I can make a few phone calls. Want a L2 thread for internal updates Chris?

Thanks sir, but no - let's keep it all in this live thread. If you do inquire, please let whoever you speak know it would be for passing on to public domain (this thread). Don't want to give anyone a nasty shock over there or something going on which shouldn't, etc.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27033
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6927
  • Likes Given: 4888
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #398 on: 11/09/2011 12:29 AM »
According to the See Sat L satellite mailing list, the spacecraft have been found in the same orbit as before the burn, after the planned burn time.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0069.html
:C

Might not be the spacecraft itself, though.

My friend at U.S. Deep Space Network's control center provides the following:
U.S. DSN's Goldstone Antenna Complex received one ping from Spacecraft. SC performed TM downlink via all available channels, this is indicating an anomaly detected by SC computer. During SC testing, Roscosmos inserted an SC slew commanding sequence in the flight program to point the SC's antennas toward the North (to be pointing at U.S., European, Russian ground stations) in the event of a problem before the burn(s) so that data can be more quickly obtained. This allows them to analyze the data and try again another day since MDU is completely powered by SC's solar panels. Goldstone DSN is indicating that SC is in a contingency safe mode. Contact was lost at planned LOS (with no first burn) and was picked up by Europe's first tracking station, TM unreadable at moment. Sun pointing for solar panels may not have been established before battery charging was commenced by flight computer. SC can be commanded to reset if need be.

Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

Roscosmos and NASA are both probably hoping that programming is not the issue. NASA JPL supplied the auxiliary flight control computer, at the request of the prime contractor with approval from Roscosmos, to increase chances of mission success. Both are turned on for launch through TMI with JPL computer taking over after last orbit correction burn to perform Mars System insertion. JPL computer is then turned off until Phobos launch of Sample return SC back to Earth.
Interesting, didn't know that (probably my fault for not reading thoroughly enough).

Good to know there's still a decent chance here.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline russianhalo117

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3863
  • AR USA / Berlin, DE / Moscow, RF
  • Liked: 755
  • Likes Given: 463
Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #399 on: 11/09/2011 12:32 AM »
Quote
Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

  It's parking orbit will certainly keep it up there for a few more days,
 but not much more.
  And the Russians do have better computers and software than they had in 1996.

  But there is the problem of Solar orientation for the F-G solar panels.
And even if it has reliable power and is perhaps in a safe mode,
and if the Russians were able to reestablish communication with it
how would they know how much mass the orbiting-assembly has now (something separated & drifted off the craft)?
  They can't just fire up the rocket motors on that orbiting craft without knowing all the details and expect a successful TMI.

raw TM indicates no evidence of first burn taking place at all.

Tags: