Author Topic: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011  (Read 426714 times)

Offline Nickolai

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #500 on: 11/09/2011 05:31 PM »
I'm suddenly a bit confused by the Roscosmos statement I posted. They claim the SC was out of range of ground stations during the planned burn, but RussianHalo posted information that DSN was contracted to provide telemetry for the burns. Does anyone know about the contract with DSN? And it seems we haven't confirmed the rumour that JPL supplied an auxiliary guidance computer either.

Offline BrunoQuiocca

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #501 on: 11/09/2011 05:48 PM »
Phobos-Grunt is above Baikonur right now. Let's see if we have any news on the next minutes.

Online Skylab

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #502 on: 11/09/2011 05:51 PM »
Phobos-Grunt is above Baikonur right now. Let's see if we have any news on the next minutes.
Yep, ground track here:
http://digilander.libero.it/SATrack/Phobos.html?q=phobos%20#MAP

Offline butters

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #503 on: 11/09/2011 06:07 PM »
I can understand why Russia might want to try and get away with using only their limited domestic tracking and telemetry assets in order to save costs, but I don't understand how that consideration wasn't nullified immediately when the spacecraft encountered a potential LOM situation and they clearly could benefit from additional coverage in resolving the problem. They should have asked for help, and I don't understand why they haven't. The cost of this mission far exceeds the cost of securing international assistance in saving it.

If this is viewed as a matter of national pride, then that concerns me. Would they insist on making do with their domestic resources if there were cosmonauts on that spacecraft? I sincerely hope they save this very ambitious mission. I wish they would pursue every available resource and not rely completely on the one and only ground station in the world that can provide insight into the situation.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #504 on: 11/09/2011 06:19 PM »
I can understand why Russia might want to try and get away with using only their limited domestic tracking and telemetry assets in order to save costs, but I don't understand how that consideration wasn't nullified immediately when the spacecraft encountered a potential LOM situation and they clearly could benefit from additional coverage in resolving the problem. They should have asked for help, and I don't understand why they haven't. The cost of this mission far exceeds the cost of securing international assistance in saving it.

If this is viewed as a matter of national pride, then that concerns me. Would they insist on making do with their domestic resources if there were cosmonauts on that spacecraft? I sincerely hope they save this very ambitious mission. I wish they would pursue every available resource and not rely completely on the one and only ground station in the world that can provide insight into the situation.

That all assumes that using additional tracking assets from other concerns is as simple as switching a switch. It may not be, and may have required planning before the mission.
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Offline apace

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #505 on: 11/09/2011 06:22 PM »
Just to know, Russia has only one tracking station? What about data relay satellites to use?

Offline Vladi

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #506 on: 11/09/2011 06:23 PM »
There haven't been operational Luch satellites (TDRS equivalent) for quite some time, however they are launching one this December.

Online Skylab

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #507 on: 11/09/2011 06:24 PM »
Just to know, Russia has only one tracking station? What about data relay satellites to use?
They hope to (re)build their own Luch relay satellite system, and they are using 3 ground stations. But only one was capable of downloading all the telemetry: Baikonur.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #508 on: 11/09/2011 06:24 PM »
If this is viewed as a matter of national pride, then that concerns me. Would they insist on making do with their domestic resources if there were cosmonauts on that spacecraft?

Look up the story of the submarine Kursk.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #509 on: 11/09/2011 06:26 PM »
Looking ahead, and assuming they get a successful trans-Mars insertion, my next big concern is the operation of the Fregat stage for Mars Orbit Insertion after an eleven month cold cruise. NASA probes have been badly bit by problems caused by using hypergolic engines after such an exposure to flight conditions. Since [for the first time?] the same engine is being used both for Earth departure and Mars arrival [Mars-96 apparently intended to do the same -- did Phobos-1 and -2?] , I am deeply concerned over the state of its engine valves when the probe finally [we hope] gets to Mars.


Thanks for your thoughts Jim. I guess one step at a time, no TMI, it will be all academic and another engineering forensics case…


Regards
Robert
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline Flint

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #510 on: 11/09/2011 06:28 PM »
Hi folks

Does anybody know which radio frequencies are being used by the spacecraft?

Greetings from Switzerland
Alex

Offline SiberianTiger

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #511 on: 11/09/2011 06:42 PM »
Hi folks

Does anybody know which radio frequencies are being used by the spacecraft?

Greetings from Switzerland
Alex


Transmission - 7,159.72-7,176.28 MHz
Receiving - 8,412.268-8,431.1 MHz
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 06:43 PM by SiberianTiger »

Offline Lars_J

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #512 on: 11/09/2011 07:23 PM »
According to the ground track info at http://digilander.libero.it/SATrack/Phobos.html?q=phobos%20#MAP , the spacecraft is passing right over Baikonur right now, so hopefully they can communicate properly with it and figure out a workaround.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 07:24 PM by Lars_J »

Offline Prober

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #513 on: 11/09/2011 07:44 PM »
According to the ground track info at http://digilander.libero.it/SATrack/Phobos.html?q=phobos%20#MAP , the spacecraft is passing right over Baikonur right now, so hopefully they can communicate properly with it and figure out a workaround.

does it have a Norad listing yet?
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Online Skylab

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #514 on: 11/09/2011 08:06 PM »
Can someone check this Russian post? Propulsion test at 21:16 MSK?

Quote
на офф канале тв студии роскосмоса на трубе написали вот что:
Первая попытка запустить двигательную установку межпланетной станции "Фобос-грунт", которая не вышла на траекторию отлета к Марсу, состоится сегодня в 21:16 мск.

« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 08:11 PM by Skylab »

Online Svetoslav

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #515 on: 11/09/2011 08:07 PM »
I wish I could say something more, but I can't... I have trouble with Novosti Kosmonavtiki once again. Vesti offers no new information - they are still saying that specialists are trying to save the mission. There is a little moaning in the official discussion forum and astronomy.ru forum about lack of data - but nothing that's worth of mentioning.

Online Svetoslav

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #516 on: 11/09/2011 08:10 PM »
Ten minutes from a first propulsion test, supposedly.

Quote
на офф канале тв студии роскосмоса на трубе написали вот что:
Первая попытка запустить двигательную установку межпланетной станции "Фобос-грунт", которая не вышла на траекторию отлета к Марсу, состоится сегодня в 21:16 мск.

Are you sure about this? 21:16 МСК was two hours ago...

Online Skylab

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #517 on: 11/09/2011 08:12 PM »
Ten minutes from a first propulsion test, supposedly.

Quote
на офф канале тв студии роскосмоса на трубе написали вот что:
Первая попытка запустить двигательную установку межпланетной станции "Фобос-грунт", которая не вышла на траекторию отлета к Марсу, состоится сегодня в 21:16 мск.

Are you sure about this? 21:16 МСК was two hours ago...
Edited my post, a second reading makes it likely this is the plan for tomorrow.

Check here: http://phobos.cosmos.ru/index.php?id=388&view=single_thread&cat_uid=1&conf_uid=1&thread_uid=21&page=8

Offline yaroslav

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #518 on: 11/09/2011 08:15 PM »
Can someone check this Russian post? Propulsion test at 21:16 MSK?

Quote
на офф канале тв студии роскосмоса на трубе написали вот что:
Первая попытка запустить двигательную установку межпланетной станции "Фобос-грунт", которая не вышла на траекторию отлета к Марсу, состоится сегодня в 21:16 мск.
"First try to fire FG is planned for 21:16, Moscow time"

It is old info now...

There was also rumor they just want to get some data from Fobos, and then (tomorrow) decide what to do
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 08:23 PM by yaroslav »

Offline Satori

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #519 on: 11/09/2011 08:15 PM »
So, only tomorrow we will know if the mission can be saved?

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