Author Topic: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011  (Read 426625 times)

Offline Moe Grills

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #400 on: 11/09/2011 12:39 AM »
Quote
Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

  It's parking orbit will certainly keep it up there for a few more days,
 but not much more.
  And the Russians do have better computers and software than they had in 1996.

  But there is the problem of Solar orientation for the F-G solar panels.
And even if it has reliable power and is perhaps in a safe mode,
and if the Russians were able to reestablish communication with it
how would they know how much mass the orbiting-assembly has now (something separated & drifted off the craft)?
  They can't just fire up the rocket motors on that orbiting craft without knowing all the details and expect a successful TMI.

raw TM indicates no evidence of first burn taking place at all.

   And the planned 16 minute burn programmed to occur within 1/2 an hour from now would NOT be sufficient to achieve escape velocity for the craft.  I think they will send software commands to scrub that burn for today.

Online Chris Bergin


We won't be long from the schedule for the second burn, which will take it into heliocentric orbit?

A moot point if the first burn didn't even take place, as noted in RH's post - never mind the flight computer in safe mode.

Will be something if they can get the computer back up, and then re-target the burns!

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #402 on: 11/09/2011 12:47 AM »
Quote
Thanks! It sounds like they may be able keep this mission alive if they can get the flight computer back? If that's even possible?

  It's parking orbit will certainly keep it up there for a few more days,
 but not much more.
  And the Russians do have better computers and software than they had in 1996.

  But there is the problem of Solar orientation for the F-G solar panels.
And even if it has reliable power and is perhaps in a safe mode,
and if the Russians were able to reestablish communication with it
how would they know how much mass the orbiting-assembly has now (something separated & drifted off the craft)?
  They can't just fire up the rocket motors on that orbiting craft without knowing all the details and expect a successful TMI.

raw TM indicates no evidence of first burn taking place at all.

   And the planned 16 minute burn programmed to occur within 1/2 an hour from now would NOT be sufficient to achieve escape velocity for the craft.  I think they will send software commands to scrub that burn for today.
Lets hope they fixed the MARS 96 code glitch for the US jettison timer which is surfaced again during SC testing that was to place the US in safe mode. Very similar code is used to command the APT to separate from MDU. Someone might want to check some SC tracking sites/sources to verify that it hasn't separated, otherwise it's primary mission over and we might still be able to go to the moon and bring back some fresh samples.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 12:53 AM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #403 on: 11/09/2011 12:52 AM »
Anyone have any info on electrical power available?
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #404 on: 11/09/2011 01:01 AM »
Anyone have any info on electrical power available?
DSN won't be able to gain any data until next pass if Roscosmos sends requests for additional tracking. DSN was contracted for covering the first two burns plus TMI. Thats all we can do now except track it. Since the burns did not occur, they would have to declare an international mission contingency with a request for all available antennas per international space laws. Then we can help them.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 01:02 AM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Longhorn John

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #405 on: 11/09/2011 01:05 AM »
Roscosmos will have to make a statement soon after the expected second burn, correct?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #406 on: 11/09/2011 01:08 AM »
Someone might want to check some SC tracking sites/sources to verify that the APT hasn't separated yet, otherwise it's primary mission over and we might still be able to go to the moon and bring back some fresh samples. Please let there be two objects not three.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 01:09 AM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #407 on: 11/09/2011 01:08 AM »
Anyone have any info on electrical power available?
DSN won't be able to gain any data until next pass if Roscosmos sends requests for additional tracking. DSN was contracted for covering the first two burns plus TMI. Thats all we can do now except track it. Since the burns did not occur, they would have to declare an international mission contingency with a request for all available antennas per international space laws. Then we can help them.
Thanks... All fingers crossed...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline BrunoQuiocca

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #408 on: 11/09/2011 01:08 AM »
Found a tweet of a guy who lives at 23 46 S / 53 18 W (about 85 miles north of my position)

he says: HA!! Vi daqui de casa a sonda Phobos-Grunt e os foguetes dela entrando em ignição!! Foi muito da hora ver a luz dela ficando mais forte!!

Translation is something like this: HA!!! I saw from my home the Phobos-Grunt and it's rockets ignigting. It was so cool to see it's light getting stronger!

And another tweet in english: I'm from Brazil, and i saw two diferents objects moving on predicted orbit. I thought it was the remains of the rocket. OMG!!!

The guy twitter account is @hevertonfreitas

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #409 on: 11/09/2011 01:13 AM »
Found a tweet of a guy who lives at 23 46 S / 53 18 W (about 85 miles north of my position)

he says: HA!! Vi daqui de casa a sonda Phobos-Grunt e os foguetes dela entrando em ignição!! Foi muito da hora ver a luz dela ficando mais forte!!

Translation is something like this: HA!!! I saw from my home the Phobos-Grunt and it's rockets ignigting. It was so cool to see it's light getting stronger!

And another tweet in english: I'm from Brazil, and i saw two diferents objects moving on predicted orbit. I thought it was the remains of the rocket. OMG!!!

The guy twitter account is @hevertonfreitas

Can they verify that it was traveling with inclination of 54.1 deg. towards equator?

Offline Hungry4info3

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #410 on: 11/09/2011 01:15 AM »
we might still be able to go to the moon and bring back some fresh samples

Landing on Phobos is a lot different then landing on the Moon. Fobos-Grunt probably lacks the capacity to land on the Moon.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #411 on: 11/09/2011 01:18 AM »
we might still be able to go to the moon and bring back some fresh samples

Landing on Phobos is a lot different then landing on the Moon. Fobos-Grunt probably lacks the capacity to land on the Moon.
You might be right but it would prevent space junk if you put it on a free-return trajectory.

Offline Hungry4info3

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #412 on: 11/09/2011 01:20 AM »
You might be right but it would prevent space junk if you put it on a free-return trajectory.

If you can send it on a free-return trajectory, couldn't you just re-enter it directly?

Offline BrunoQuiocca

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #413 on: 11/09/2011 01:25 AM »
Can they verify that it was traveling with inclination of 54.1 deg. towards equator?

I asked him. Let's see.
I'm national news on Globo tv now.They announced yesterday that it would be possible to see the spacecraft across the country.
Let's see if they say something, or interview someone who saw it.
« Last Edit: 11/10/2011 09:29 AM by BrunoQuiocca »

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #414 on: 11/09/2011 01:26 AM »
At long last - Russia finally admits abnormal situation - two sentences on Ria Novosti... http://ria.ru/science/20111109/484401134.html

As Anatoly Zak points out on russianspaceweb.com - technical problems weren't the only abnormal thing that happened during launch...

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #415 on: 11/09/2011 01:26 AM »
You might be right but it would prevent space junk if you put it on a free-return trajectory.

If you can send it on a free-return trajectory, couldn't you just re-enter it directly?

higher velocity results in reduced safety hazards unlike the 96 failure. also gives the ability of a steep, targeted reentry in the Pacific.

Online Chris Bergin

At long last - Russia finally admits abnormal situation - two sentences on Ria Novosti... http://ria.ru/science/20111109/484401134.html

As Anatoly Zak points out on russianspaceweb.com - technical problems weren't the only abnormal thing that happened during launch...

But what happens now is the question. This isn't a full on failure yet, as far as we know.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #417 on: 11/09/2011 01:34 AM »
OK.. I continue with report... Translating RIA Novosti article:

http://ria.ru/science/20111109/484401134.html

It was a difficult night, we weren't able to see the spacecraft. Now we have its coordinates. It's clear that the MDU didn't work... There weren't neither the first, nor the second engine burns - says Vladimir Popovkin, head of Roscosmos
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 01:35 AM by Svetoslav »

Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Zenit-2SB launch with Phobos-Grunt - November 8, 2011
« Reply #418 on: 11/09/2011 01:36 AM »
Roscosmos and NASA are both probably hoping that programming is not the issue. NASA JPL supplied the auxiliary flight control computer, at the request of the prime contractor with approval from Roscosmos, to increase chances of mission success. Both are turned on for launch through TMI with JPL computer taking over after last orbit correction burn to perform Mars System insertion. JPL computer is then turned off until Phobos launch of Sample return SC back to Earth.

This is the first I've ever heard of this JPL contribution. Is there any information on the JPL site?


Online Chris Bergin

Sounding pretty terminal based on the quotes. I'm guessing that will be the next confirmation :(

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