Author Topic: What's Happening at Bigelow?  (Read 196940 times)

Offline William Barton

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #140 on: 01/22/2010 11:20 AM »
Any kind of propellant transfer at a Lagrange point will also be a game changer. It doesn't look as if a Bigelow hab itself is very useful as a depot though. It could still be very useful to have it colocated with a depot or depot precursor.
Why couldn't a Bigelow hab be designed specifically to be a propellant depot?

Would.YOU.want.to.live.next.to.big.tanks.of.high.power.rocket.fuel?

There's 50 gallons of gasoline on the other side of the wall I'm sitting by right now. And why are there periods instead of spaces between your words?

Offline ChefPat

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #141 on: 01/22/2010 11:38 AM »
Would.YOU.want.to.live.next.to.big.tanks.of.high.power.rocket.fuel?
Space Travel & Exploration are dangerous. Period. We say that all the time Mike, time to put up or shut up.
If we have a Lunar L-1 station set to put Hab's on the Lunar surface, where exactly do you suggest we put the Gas Station?
Playing Politics with Commercial Crew is Un-American!!!

Online A_M_Swallow

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #142 on: 01/22/2010 12:04 PM »
Lets do a worse case scenario.  If the LOX tank crashes into the hydrogen (or RP-1) tank how far away does the Sundancer need to be for its windows to survive?

Remote controlling the propellant depot from 100 miles away is not hard.

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #143 on: 01/22/2010 01:09 PM »
Would.YOU.want.to.live.next.to.big.tanks.of.high.power.rocket.fuel?

Would you want to live near tanks of ammonia, hydrazine, & pure oxygen?  Ohh yea that's the ISS, I guess people are willing to spend 20 million for that privilege already.  But the ISS can't take a shotgun blast quite as well as a Bigelow claims it can.
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Offline clongton

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #144 on: 01/22/2010 04:55 PM »
Why couldn't a Bigelow hab be designed specifically to be a propellant depot?

Materials science.
Bigalow habs do not use materials that work well with cryogenic propellants.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder

Offline bad_astra

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #145 on: 01/22/2010 07:27 PM »
Why would the fuel depot necessarily be cryo fuels? Hydrogen peroxide could be stored, along with RP1. Loose a lot of ISP, but you don't have to invent new long term storage methods, just big-dumb-upper-stages.
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Online jongoff

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #146 on: 01/22/2010 07:33 PM »
Why couldn't a Bigelow hab be designed specifically to be a propellant depot?

Materials science.
Bigalow habs do not use materials that work well with cryogenic propellants.

Oh, I've thought of ways that could probably make it work--the more important thing is that there are better ways of doing the job that probably wouldn't be as much of a science project.  To me, that's why.

~Jon

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #147 on: 01/24/2010 02:50 PM »
I.spilled.water.on.my.keyboard.the.other.day.and.haven't.gotten.to.the.store.for.a.replacement.yet..

The.Space.bar.is.hosed...

Don't type too long like that.  You will be inserting periods into emails at work next week.
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Offline Orbital Debris

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #148 on: 01/27/2010 02:54 PM »
Quote

Oh, I've thought of ways that could probably make it work--the more important thing is that there are better ways of doing the job that probably wouldn't be as much of a science project.  To me, that's why.

~Jon

This.  Expandables are all about the interior volume for living space.  Tanks are on the outside.  The node-prop bus would be feasible, but probably not big enough.  A Bigelow complex would only be good if it was required to be man tended.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2010 02:59 PM by Orbital Debris »

Online mmeijeri

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #149 on: 01/28/2010 03:35 PM »
Quote
Orbital Technologies Corporation (ORBITEC) Trusted by Bigelow Aerospace to provide Environmental Control and Life Support (ECLSS) for Sundancer
Madison, Wisconsin – January 28, 2010 ORBITEC’s Human Support Systems and Instrumentation Division continues its relationship with Bigelow Aerospace to develop and integrate ORBITEC'S cost-effective environmental control and life support systems, subsystems, and components for Sundancer and commercial space travel and habitation.
Robert Bigelow, President and owner of Bigelow Aerospace stated that “We have had a long standing beneficial relationship with ORBITEC. Their capabilities and commercial business practice mesh well with our company.” Mr. Bigelow also states “My expectation for ORBITEC to provide safe and reliable solutions, to build and deliver on time, and to collaboratively work with my team to provide cost effective product is the reason I have them on the Bigelow team.”

http://www.orbitec.com/documents/ORBITEC_Bigelow_PressRelease_21Jan2010.pdf
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Offline docmordrid

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« Last Edit: 01/28/2010 04:46 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline Orbital Debris

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #151 on: 01/28/2010 08:08 PM »
I'm rather mystified as to why they would put out a press release with this information. 

Offline clongton

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #152 on: 01/28/2010 08:49 PM »
Their hab orientation is all wrong for a Bigelow inflatable.
It's laid out like space-lab, as if the hab lay horizontally on the ground, like a very long, single story house.
All the Bigelow hab design concepts I've seen use a central core running the full length, and are oriented like a multi story building, standing vertically on the ground. That central core houses all the permanent hardware and power, liquid and life support services, running on shared busses between "floors".
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Offline Orbital Debris

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #153 on: 01/28/2010 09:04 PM »
Actually, the Bigelow designs are oriented longitudinally.  The 'layer cake' was used for the transhab designs.

Offline clongton

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #154 on: 01/28/2010 09:07 PM »
Actually, the Bigelow designs are oriented longitudinally.  The 'layer cake' was used for the transhab designs.

Examples with links?
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder

Offline docmordrid

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #155 on: 01/28/2010 10:56 PM »
Bigelow mockup images....d/l'ed off their site before the links disappeared.  The first pretty much matches ORBITEC's concept art and the mid-deck "floor" looks a lot like the last images "floor".  The rest show the core framing.

A lot of info can be gleaned if you visit http://www.freepatentsonline.com/.  Search for Robert T. Bigelow or Bigelow Aerospace.  It'll list the patents, many of which are for the modules and their subsystems while many of the others are just flat entertaining.

This one is the pdf for the module core & bulkheads;

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050120638.pdf
« Last Edit: 01/28/2010 11:19 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline robertross

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #156 on: 01/29/2010 12:05 AM »
Bigelow mockup images....d/l'ed off their site before the links disappeared.  The first pretty much matches ORBITEC's concept art and the mid-deck "floor" looks a lot like the last images "floor".  The rest show the core framing.

A lot of info can be gleaned if you visit http://www.freepatentsonline.com/.  Search for Robert T. Bigelow or Bigelow Aerospace.  It'll list the patents, many of which are for the modules and their subsystems while many of the others are just flat entertaining.

This one is the pdf for the module core & bulkheads;

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050120638.pdf

Cool. Thanks for the links & images.
RIP Justin Wilson

Online jongoff

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #157 on: 01/29/2010 02:32 AM »
Bigelow mockup images....d/l'ed off their site before the links disappeared.  The first pretty much matches ORBITEC's concept art and the mid-deck "floor" looks a lot like the last images "floor".  The rest show the core framing.

I can vouch for those pictures--I went on a tour there a few years ago, and that's how they had the layout.

~Jon

Online A_M_Swallow

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #158 on: 01/29/2010 05:57 AM »
Those designs are all for Earth gravity.  Under thrust the bottom will be at the back.  Under rotation the bottom will be the outside with the centre column as the top.

Offline CriX

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #159 on: 01/29/2010 06:13 AM »
Those designs actually look horribly cramped.  Can't even "stand up" in most of those volumes except for the last one.  I'm also confused with this configuration considering artificial Gs during propulsion, but I suppose most of the time spent inside would be under zerog.

I assume these are the 330?

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