Shenzhou "space laboratory"

[Jim]

The descent module doesn't use a docking interface with the OM. 

[8900]

This one is much bigger than the Shenzhou spacecraft(which can be seen at the right side), this suggests it won't be SZ-8 or SZ-9
Besides CZ-2F has a limited capacity of ~8-9tonnes to LEO
It should be the "20 tonnes class spacelab" called "Tiangong-1"(palace in the sky, and the name comes from Chinese legend)
It will be launched after 2010 by the new LOx/Kerosene launcher (CZ-5) from Hainan WenChang new spaceport

Besides SZ-8/9/10 are technology demonstrator rather than formal spacelab
there is also plan to assemble Mir type permanently manned large space station before 2020

[Chen Lan]

This one is much bigger than the Shenzhou spacecraft(which can be seen at the right side), this suggests it won't be SZ-8 or SZ-9
Besides CZ-2F has a limited capacity of ~8-9tonnes to LEO
It should be the "20 tonnes class spacelab" called "Tiangong-1"(palace in the sky, and the name comes from Chinese legend)
It will be launched after 2010 by the new LOx/Kerosene launcher (CZ-5) from Hainan WenChang new spaceport

Besides SZ-8/9/10 are technology demonstrator rather than formal spacelab
there is also plan to assemble Mir type permanently manned large space station before 2020

TG-1 is not the 20t class station. It will simply be a docking target, or could be a prototype Spacelab, to be visited by Shenzhou 8,9,10 within 2 years. While TG-2 and 3, the working Spacelabs, are to be launched by 2015 and to be visited by 4 Shenzhous (probably 2 each). All TGs will be 8t class and will be launched by CZ-2F/G, an improved CZ-2F model. China will completed a long duration manned(if not permanently manned), modular space station by 2020. The bottom line is to launch the core module (20t class) by 2020.

[Satori]

So, we can have...

2010 - Launch TG-1 by CZ-2F/G; launch SZ-8 and SZ-9 by CZ-2F (?). SZ-8 and SZ-9 manned missions?

TG-1 to be used until 2015 (a visit by ZS-10) when...

2015 - Launch TG-2 by CZ-2F/G; launch SZ-11 and SZ-12

2018 - Launch TG-3

2020 - Launch of core module of 20t modular space station

Can we have a scenario like this?

Some sources say that the next manned chinese flight will be SZ-10 in 2010. So, before we will have the unmanned missions of SZ-8 and SZ-9 to dock in orbit. If SZ-10 is going to dock with the mini-lab SZ-8/SZ-9, I just don't understand the timetable of the TG-1 launch.

[Chen Lan]

According to official report today, TG-1 will be launched at end of 2010 or 2011, followed by SZ-8, 9, 10 within 2 years. And according to the official Chinese Manned space Program site revealed earlier, TG-2 and 3, as well as another 4 manned ships will be launched by 2015. The announced TG-1 life is two years. So it is reasonable to assume TG-2 and 3 will have same lifespan. Then, let me have a prediction: TG-2 launched in 2012, followed by SZ-11 and 12 in 2012 and 2013; TG-3 launched in 2014, followed by SZ-13 and 14 in 2014 and 2015. Of course, actual launches will most likely have some delays.

[lucspace]

According to official report today, TG-1 will be launched at end of 2010 or 2011, followed by SZ-8, 9, 10 within 2 years. And according to the official Chinese Manned space Program site revealed earlier, TG-2 and 3, as well as another 4 manned ships will be launched by 2015. The announced TG-1 life is two years. So it is reasonable to assume TG-2 and 3 will have same lifespan. Then, let me have a prediction: TG-2 launched in 2012, followed by SZ-11 and 12 in 2012 and 2013; TG-3 launched in 2014, followed by SZ-13 and 14 in 2014 and 2015. Of course, actual launches will most likely have some delays.

Does this mean SZ 8 and 9 are simply unmanned ships to test docking, or will they leave their OM's as parts of the station?

And as a matter of curiousity; which 'official Chinese Manned space Program site' do you mean?

[Chen Lan]

Does this mean SZ 8 and 9 are simply unmanned ships to test docking, or will they leave their OM's as parts of the station?

And as a matter of curiousity; which 'official Chinese Manned space Program site' do you mean?

1. Yes, they will simply test docking.
2. http://www.cmse.gov.cn/

[JimO]

We're looking at two separate 'space station' designs, one a Shenzhou-sized vehicle (~8 tons), the other a Salyut-class vehicle (~18 tons). Since the CZ-5 heavy booster won't even begin flight tests until 2011-2, then is Tiangong the 'small' variant, and if so, how much life support can it really carry for even a minimal (2-man) crew on an extended duration mission?

[lucspace]

Hi Phil,

This video has a LOT of different configurations for the Chinese spacelabs of the future.

How accurate is it ? Depends on if you trust the video, but it is claimed to be from CNSA

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qbC9YEGEPMI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/qbC9YEGEPMI&rel=1</a>

Some still pictures of the Shenzhou and spacelab here: http://js360.bolaa.com/forum/blogtopic_5692860_17968.html

It looks like this depiction shows two docking ports on the spacelab. Might an unmanned docking by Shenzhou be a way to deploy an EVA airlock by leaving the OM? This would enable the original lab to be devoted to science/life support systems and free up the Shenzhou OM for use during the expected multiple day trek between launch and docking, analogous to the Soyuz docking profile.

Another point; SZ uses its own engines to circulize orbit after launch. As it doesn't look like the spacelab is equipped with large engines, will an adapted, more powerfull CZ2F be used to launch it?

[JimO]

I find that last image VERY credible for this reason. One of the Chinese news stories describes work on the next version of the CZ-2F launcher for the follow-on Shenzhou-related payloads, and an expert told the reporter that the docking target, while the same mass as Shenzhou, had a larger diameter, requiring a larger-diameter shroud (and no escape tower). Voila, here we see a configuration consistent with that comment.

[hektor]

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2008/10/iac-2008-video-shenzhou7-futur.html

[Zond]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JvVFjzO-99o&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/JvVFjzO-99o&rel=1</a>

Beijing, Nov.11 (China Defense Mashup Report) — When China awarded people who made outstanding contributions to the Shenzhou VII manned space flight during a meeting on last Friday (Nov.07), CCTV (China Central Television Station) played a documentary, which unleashed a clip of CG video to display how China’s future “Tiangong” Space Lab to be assembled in orbit.

From http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/

[Chen Lan]

Beijing, Nov.11 (China Defense Mashup Report) — When China awarded people who made outstanding contributions to the Shenzhou VII manned space flight during a meeting on last Friday (Nov.07), CCTV (China Central Television Station) played a documentary, which unleashed a clip of CG video to display how China’s future “Tiangong” Space Lab to be assembled in orbit.

From http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/

Seems there are one core module, two research modules, two Shenzhous and two cargo ships. The core module is expected to be launched before 2020.

BTW, it is not the Tiangong as the report claimed.

[hal]

Found this link on another site:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/26/chinas-tiangong-1-space-station-unveiled-for-tiny-taikonauts/

[8900]

China is moving forward really fast in the field of manned space program
with persistant trade surplus and substantial increase in wealth measured by GDP growth, probably the Chinese space program will get a budget boost and acceleration in schedule

competition is always good for technological progress, as we can see from history