Author Topic: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application  (Read 665341 times)

Offline Moe Grills

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1500 on: 09/23/2011 01:59 AM »
CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

Offline GeeGee

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1501 on: 09/23/2011 02:24 AM »

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.


Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1502 on: 09/23/2011 03:19 AM »

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.


Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.
Star-Drive

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1503 on: 09/23/2011 05:55 AM »

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.


Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.
would neutrinos be exempt from M-E influence?

Offline marsavian

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1504 on: 09/23/2011 07:42 AM »
CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

I think the measurement will be found to be flawed unfortunately but it would be very interesting if true.

But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

Offline kkattula

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1505 on: 09/23/2011 08:43 AM »
And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

Which brings me back to a question I asked a while back:

Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?

Would M-E generators tend to push the rest of the Universe away? Oh no, dark energy... ;)

Offline MP99

Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1506 on: 09/23/2011 09:03 AM »
I speculated the same earlier up thread.

Implication would be that usage became "cosmically" significant 5 billion years ago when dark energy started to make it's effects felt.

cheers, Martin

Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1507 on: 09/23/2011 12:19 PM »
Folks:

"Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?"

Look at the magnitude of extracted M-E energy required to make this senario play out by any and all species/civilizations required to accomplish this feat.  We would have to have multiple civilizations moving around whole galaxies over billions of years before they would have any noticable impact on the observable negative energy levels.  I guess that outcome is not impossible, but you've got to ask why would any civilization pursue such a course?  And surely they would have noticed along the way the possibility of their actions was driving the universe towards a "Big Rip" ending and changed their ways.
Star-Drive

Offline MP99

Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1508 on: 09/23/2011 02:28 PM »
Common theme in certain speculative fiction, though.

cheers, Martin

Offline MP99

Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1509 on: 09/23/2011 04:36 PM »
CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

http://xkcd.com/955/

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Online douglas100

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1510 on: 09/23/2011 06:58 PM »
 ;D
Douglas Clark

Offline GeeGee

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1511 on: 09/23/2011 06:59 PM »


And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

Physicists are stating one of the consequences of this being right is having to rewrite special relativity.

Isn't this kind of a bad result for the M-E conjecture since it relies on SR being correct?


Offline mlorrey

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1512 on: 09/23/2011 07:38 PM »
CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

This experiment has mistaken conclusions. The neutrinos are travelling at what light speed is in a vacuum in flat spacetime because they are weakly interacting or noninteractive with regular matter. Photons, due to special relativity, are bound to curved geodesics in our nonflat spactime which causes the perception of a slower speed of light for the photons, hence the neutrinos travel a billionth of a second faster than the photons.
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Online douglas100

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1513 on: 09/23/2011 08:32 PM »
Curved spacetime is a feature of General Relativity not Special Relativity.
Douglas Clark

Offline Sith

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1514 on: 09/23/2011 08:49 PM »
no, the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity is the Mach Effect. Although its not really PROVED yet. So maybe FTL neutrinos are the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity and until Mach Effect is proved without a doubt.
How can the Mach Effect be proven inside CERN? Who will do the research?

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1515 on: 09/24/2011 01:32 AM »

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.


Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.
would neutrinos be exempt from M-E influence?

Neutrinos, while weakly interacting, DO have mass, so they are influenced by gravity, just less than photons are.
VP of International Spaceflight Museum - http://ismuseum.org
Founder, Lorrey Aerospace, B&T Holdings, ACE Exchange, and Hypersonic Systems. Currently I am a venture recruiter for Family Office Venture Capital.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1516 on: 09/24/2011 01:34 AM »
Curved spacetime is a feature of General Relativity not Special Relativity.

General Relativity describes spacetime, but it is special relativity that says that the energy of a photon is relativistically equivalent to mass, which is why gravity bends light, and can slow the local velocity of light down.
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Offline Oberon_Command

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1517 on: 09/24/2011 01:51 AM »
CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

This experiment has mistaken conclusions. The neutrinos are travelling at what light speed is in a vacuum in flat spacetime because they are weakly interacting or noninteractive with regular matter. Photons, due to special relativity, are bound to curved geodesics in our nonflat spactime which causes the perception of a slower speed of light for the photons, hence the neutrinos travel a billionth of a second faster than the photons.

You don't think the scientists at CERN accounted for that already? If the neutrinos and photons take different paths, that seems like the kind of thing they'd have to take into consideration just to detect the neutrinos in the first place.

Offline tdperk

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1518 on: 09/24/2011 10:45 PM »
"Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?"
kkattula   09/23/2011 08:43 AM

&

"Look at the magnitude of extracted M-E energy required to make this senario play out by any and all species/civilizations required to accomplish this feat.  We would have to have multiple civilizations moving around whole galaxies over billions of years before they would have any noticable impact on the observable negative energy levels.  I guess that outcome is not impossible, but you've got to ask why would any civilization pursue such a course?  And surely they would have noticed along the way the possibility of their actions was driving the universe towards a "Big Rip" ending and changed their ways."
Star-Drive   09/23/2011 12:19 PM

Alternatively, it may be this:
What we see which we now explain to be an inflationary universe--dark energy, dark matter, superluminal expansion--these in fact are the results of a long future period wherein the intelligences which exist in that future time are using M-E effect energy generation to prolong their existence past the point the rest of the universe having experienced decay to iron, heat death.  Iron still has mass, and to my knowledge the M-E effect might be usable to generate power as long as mass exists somewhere in the universe.  They may not be using "Kardashev 9" energies, but using far lesser power for them a long time results in many backwards going arrows landing where we can see their effects.

It could take a long time to figure a way around heat death.

Or maybe they/we don't.

Online KelvinZero

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #1519 on: 09/25/2011 05:50 AM »
Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

haha.. that is like finding a cabbage that can converse about plato and noting that you don't see how this affects other green leafy vegetables.

Of course you can't. Who could? It would overturn everything we thought we knew about principles of evolution that affect all life on this planet and every other. :)

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