Author Topic: New hope for Warp Drive concept?  (Read 64087 times)

Offline su27k

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #160 on: 08/10/2014 03:16 PM »
Dr White did a presentation on the Mars Society conference a few days ago, the first part is about the warp drive interferometer work: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/4950775/events/3217776/videos/58616741

Seems there's non-negative result, although he's not sure if it's a false positive or not.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #161 on: 12/15/2014 03:58 PM »
I just had a new thought on the debris and radiation build up ahead of the field effect for this Warp Drive.

From what I have seen, the radiation and debris build up on the "leading edge" of the Warp Field Effect seem to be based upon the craft essentially being stationary in the pocket of space that's being moved.

The solution, as I see it, should be fairly simple.  Move the ship forward in the pocket of space while the pocket is itself is also moving.  This SHOULD allow any buildup of any debris and radiation to saftely dissipate along the sides of the field effect as both the space pocket an craft move in Space.

This might still require the use of a magnetic field around the habitable sections to minimize micrometeor and radiation issues for what actually doesn't dissipate out the sides, but overall, it should eliminate the "nuclear and matter wavefront" that would destroy both the spaccraft and the starsystem you'd be arriving at.  you'd still likely leave a trail of ionized gas and dust, but no "Earth Shattering Kaboom".
« Last Edit: 12/30/2014 04:46 PM by JasonAW3 »
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Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #162 on: 12/21/2014 07:55 AM »
The solution, as I see it, should be fairly simple.  Move the ship forward in the pocket of space while the pocket is itself is also moving.  This SHOULD allow any buildup of any debris and radiation to saftely dissipate along the sides of the field effect as both the space pocket an craft move in Space.

Whether the ship is moving within the pocket or not, or even if there is a ship in the pocket or not, is irrelevant.  The buildup of debris and radiation is due to the pocket, not the ship inside it.

Online Raj2014

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #163 on: 12/21/2014 10:38 AM »
With the increase of radiation, have a device, which collects the radiation and put it to use. As for debris, invent deflector shields. That is how it is done in Star Trek. If the was a way to make the warp field have a point at the front to move the debris, similar to a snow plow. How about project a field on the outside edge of the warp bubble to move the debris.   
« Last Edit: 12/28/2014 07:19 PM by Raj2014 »

Offline Torbjorn Larsson, OM

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #164 on: 12/21/2014 11:35 AM »
I'm a confused site visitor. This is a discussion under "Advanced concepts", so should be serious, yet it is discussing once proposed physics that as far as we know is impossible. So I'll just leave this here for the record:

An Alcubierre field solution does not include the means to put matter traveling faster than the universal speed limit within itself. The solution has the constraint that you somehow create a spacetime region already traveling above the limit.

And if it did include an acceleration means, it would run up against the same exclusion as all other time travel solutions of physics. (See Scott Aaaronsson's publications why those are forbidden, a physics realisation of the old quip "so where are all the time travelers then", with successful tests and all.)

Disregarding the unspecified and impossible bootstrap procedure to break the relativity it builds on, its realizations are constrained to include exotic physics. That by itself is an extraordinary claim, and would need extraordinary evidence. This isn't rocket science. ::)

Offline Ilinca Sergiu

Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #165 on: 12/21/2014 04:12 PM »
I'm a confused site visitor. This is a discussion under "Advanced concepts", so should be serious, yet it is discussing once proposed physics that as far as we know is impossible. So I'll just leave this here for the record:

An Alcubierre field solution does not include the means to put matter traveling faster than the universal speed limit within itself. The solution has the constraint that you somehow create a spacetime region already traveling above the limit.

And if it did include an acceleration means, it would run up against the same exclusion as all other time travel solutions of physics. (See Scott Aaaronsson's publications why those are forbidden, a physics realisation of the old quip "so where are all the time travelers then", with successful tests and all.)

Disregarding the unspecified and impossible bootstrap procedure to break the relativity it builds on, its realizations are constrained to include exotic physics. That by itself is an extraordinary claim, and would need extraordinary evidence. This isn't rocket science. ::)

Sorry Torbjorn Larsson : but to bend space time, it is more efficient than move in this space and time. The authority of the doctor White leaves us no other choice - it is better to move the asphalt under the truck than the truck.

Offline Ilinca Sergiu

Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #166 on: 12/21/2014 04:24 PM »
Question to the moderator.
Why is my like  for the only reasonable person (Torbjorn Larsson)?

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #167 on: 12/21/2014 09:28 PM »
I'm a confused site visitor. This is a discussion under "Advanced concepts", so should be serious, yet it is discussing once proposed physics that as far as we know is impossible.

You're right, it is impossible according to our current understanding of physics, and you give a good summary of the most obvious reasons why.  I think all these points have been made before in this thread.

"Advanced concepts" means anything in the range from unlikely to impossible.  If you don't want to read about things that are impossible as far as we know, you should avoid reading "Advanced concepts".  Having this section keeps these topics out of the rest of the forum.

I wouldn't mind a split of "Advanced concepts" into two sections: "Advanced concepts consistent with known physics" and "Advanced concepts requiring new physics".

Sorry Torbjorn Larsson : but to bend space time, it is more efficient than move in this space and time. The authority of the doctor White leaves us no other choice - it is better to move the asphalt under the truck than the truck.

Less efficient but possible always beats more efficient but impossible.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #168 on: 12/21/2014 11:11 PM »
..."Advanced concepts" means anything in the range from unlikely to impossible.  If you don't want to read about things that are impossible as far as we know, you should avoid reading "Advanced concepts"...

So, if you've done six impossible things before breakfast, why not top it off with a quick read-through of the "Advanced concepts" section...?

:D
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline kch

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #169 on: 12/21/2014 11:19 PM »
..."Advanced concepts" means anything in the range from unlikely to impossible.  If you don't want to read about things that are impossible as far as we know, you should avoid reading "Advanced concepts"...

So, if you've done six impossible things before breakfast, why not top it off with a quick read-through of the "Advanced concepts" section...?

:D

Somewhere, Douglas Adams is smiling ...  ;D

Online Raj2014

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #170 on: 12/28/2014 07:24 PM »
Found a of Dr Harold Sonny White discusses a couple of advanced propulsion concepts that may one day help us reach the stars.

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #171 on: 12/28/2014 08:32 PM »
An article on tachyons and how to find them. Unfortunately these tachyons are not of any use for FTL travel. It might be possibly useful for comms though. and if tachyons turn out to be real it adds to the body of knowledge pertenant to FTL in the future even if it is not directly applicable now.

http://phys.org/news/2014-12-faster-than-light-particles.html
« Last Edit: 12/28/2014 08:33 PM by Stormbringer »
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Offline Vultur

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #172 on: 12/29/2014 02:30 AM »
(See Scott Aaaronsson's publications why those are forbidden, a physics realisation of the old quip "so where are all the time travelers then", with successful tests and all.)

Can you link to something about that? I had thought the possibility of closed timelike curves & other causality violations within relativity was still unresolved, with a "chronology protection conjecture" that would prohibit them proposed but not proved?

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #173 on: 12/30/2014 05:17 AM »
Get the defibrolater paddles out. Call the medics. Put away the breakables. I'm about to cause several myocardio-infarctions and aneurisms...

http://www.omaha.com/living/working-toward-a-warp-drive-in-his-garage-lab-omahan/article_b6489acf-5622-5419-ac18-0c44474da9c9.html

I guess Dr White had better hurry up some. He's got competition : ;)

« Last Edit: 12/30/2014 05:19 AM by Stormbringer »
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Offline ThinkerX

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #174 on: 12/30/2014 07:01 AM »
Quote
Get the defibrolater paddles out. Call the medics. Put away the breakables. I'm about to cause several myocardio-infarctions and aneurisms...

http://www.omaha.com/living/working-toward-a-warp-drive-in-his-garage-lab-omahan/article_b6489acf-5622-5419-ac18-0c44474da9c9.html

I guess Dr White had better hurry up some. He's got competition : ;)

I wonder if Rodal or Mulletron could be summoned to this thread?  Assuming, of course, that an actual paper with reasonably sane equations can be found somewhere.

I do find it interesting he began by investigating known aeronautical anomalies/incidents.





Online Notsosureofit

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #175 on: 12/30/2014 04:01 PM »
Quote
Get the defibrolater paddles out. Call the medics. Put away the breakables. I'm about to cause several myocardio-infarctions and aneurisms...

http://www.omaha.com/living/working-toward-a-warp-drive-in-his-garage-lab-omahan/article_b6489acf-5622-5419-ac18-0c44474da9c9.html

I guess Dr White had better hurry up some. He's got competition : ;)

I wonder if Rodal or Mulletron could be summoned to this thread?  Assuming, of course, that an actual paper with reasonably sane equations can be found somewhere.

I do find it interesting he began by investigating known aeronautical anomalies/incidents.

Not much to go by, it seems to be a 2 meter (146 MHz) asymmetric resonant antenna, so it could meet the requirement for a "Sachs-Schwebel" gravitational current generator instead of a warp drive.  It could also be seeing electromagnetic forces between the antenna and the faraday cage walls which are in the near field.  The interferometer tests are interesting, but again, not much data.

There is a paper of sorts: http://swdllc.paresspacewarpresearch.org/PressRelease/Press.htm
« Last Edit: 12/30/2014 04:16 PM by Notsosureofit »

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #176 on: 12/30/2014 04:17 PM »
anything to do with gravity is by default a warp generator. conversely many warp drive schemes are also gravity manipulators once you look at them.
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #177 on: 12/30/2014 04:53 PM »
The solution, as I see it, should be fairly simple.  Move the ship forward in the pocket of space while the pocket is itself is also moving.  This SHOULD allow any buildup of any debris and radiation to saftely dissipate along the sides of the field effect as both the space pocket an craft move in Space.

Whether the ship is moving within the pocket or not, or even if there is a ship in the pocket or not, is irrelevant.  The buildup of debris and radiation is due to the pocket, not the ship inside it.

The point is, the build up would be rolled out of the way, much like the bow wave on a seagoing vessel, or the plasma shock of a reentering spacecraft.  Effectively, while moving forward in the pocket of space, you'r effectively "refreshing" the portion of space that you occupy, thus causing a roll off of buildup to the sides.  It's an imperfect solution, as you'll still likely have a higher build up of radiation and debris then you'll be able to bleed off via spacial movement in the field, but it should help.  I think that there is a better solution that could work, but I'll haver to give it more thought.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #178 on: 12/30/2014 06:22 PM »
This article says there is no such thing as inflation. Inflation is important to warp drive. What do we make of this study?


http://phys.org/news/2014-12-alternative-explanation-dark-energy.html
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Online RonM

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Re: New hope for Warp Drive concept?
« Reply #179 on: 12/30/2014 06:33 PM »
This article says there is no such thing as inflation. Inflation is important to warp drive. What do we make of this study?


http://phys.org/news/2014-12-alternative-explanation-dark-energy.html

No, it doesn't say anything about inflation. Inflation and dark energy are not the same thing.

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