Author Topic: LIVE: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26 - Jan 17, 09  (Read 140919 times)

Offline William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4060
  • Liked: 88
  • Likes Given: 57
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #100 on: 12/15/2008 08:33 AM »
I think that people are failing to understand the proper idea of rockets in the east!
For example in NASA, a launch vehicle family tends to be retired after about 20-25 years max! And by that time they will be performing to their capability!
In the east, people tend to upgrade the existing launchers and keep the family for what, 40 years or something and keep upgrading them and retesting them! So the chances of failure will be higher. Take Proton for that matter, it flew first in 1965, same as the Saturn age. But Saturn was retired with the arrival of Titan family! While Proton was being upgraded with new technologies and being retested!
So we tend to forget that the present Proton Breeze M is almost completely different expect or some things. So, launched in 2007 the new Proton Breeze M is just like something new and can't be compared to a Proton of 1960s!
So it's just the fact that Russian mindset to keep upgrading old rocket designs  and constant retesting somewhat fails it! 

I couldn't disagree more.
1) The more a system is used, the more chances there are to iron out major design flaws - if it isn't broken, don't fix it. A lot of recent Russian failures have been down to QC issues.
2) Up until EELV, the USA followed the same approach - Delta II is based on a design which first flew in 1957. Atlas II, which was only retired in 2004, was based on an equally old design. You state that Saturn was retired when Titan arrived, but Titan actually flew before Saturn.
3) The Atlas V upper stage is based on a design first flown in 1962. The same engine type is used by the Delta IV upper stage.

Offline ckiki lwai

  • Aerospace engineering student
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 834
  • Europe, Belgium
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #101 on: 12/15/2008 10:17 AM »

Ariane 4 posted an excellent record, but keep in mind that Space Shuttle recorded 88 consecutive success before Columbia, the Soviet Union's R-7 series once posted 133 consecutive success before failing again, and so on.  Although the Proton series has suffered four failures so far this decade, it had suffered five at this point during the 1990s, seven during the 1980s, and so on.  The trend is improving, though I'm sure that Krunichev would like to see even better results.

Titan offers one counter-example of the idea that Western reliability improves with time.  The Titan series (all types) recorded better reliability during the 1980s than it did during the 1990s.  STS is another example, having done better during the 1990s than during this decade. 

 - Ed Kyle

But the Shuttle is a special case, because with the failure of Columbia, the "rocket part" of the space shuttle worked, but damaged the "re-entry" part.
R7 too, because it has flown more than 1200 times, if the Ariane 4 series had flown 1200 times, who knows how many successful consecutive launches it could have achieved.
Proton's amount of failures decreased in the last three decades because they flew less every decade too. +60 this decade, 90 last decade and 110 the decade before.
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events. - Robert Heinlein

Offline johnxx9

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #102 on: 12/15/2008 03:43 PM »
See, a particular launch vehicle needs sometime from when it flies first, to reach its max ability! It may be 4-5 years or anything! But if you tinker with the rocket before it has its max capability, you'll end up having required to test the vehicle again ! Again, the vehicle will not be at it's best and you tinker with the design!

That's what has happened to Proton! Before a particular version reached its max capability, they started experimenting with the avionics, core engine, upper stage! When you do all these things together it'll be better, but every now and then if you keep making changes that are not so minor, it will result in decrease in the success rate ! 

The Proton Breeze-M is almost completely different from early versions expect for the air frame and design ! Many things have changed like avionics, fuel (early versions used kerosene), and also the stages themselves have gone through many major changes!

Heres the problem, instead of bringing all these changes at once into a new vehicle, they kept adding them on one-by-one onto Proton ! And every time the vehicle had to be tested and retested !!!!!

Offline Skyrocket

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2082
  • Frankfurt am Main, Germany
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 69
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #103 on: 12/15/2008 03:59 PM »
Excuse me, but you have probably no knowledge of the development history of the Proton, which has pretty few versions compared to many other vehicles. The one-by-one development practice as you've critisized above was done on vehicle like Atlas, Delta, Thor, Titan. Often not two consecutivly launched vehicles were identical. But in general russian (or soviet) launch vehicle were rarely changed, as they are really as close to  "mass production" as a launch vehicle can get.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #104 on: 12/15/2008 05:36 PM »
Going off topic. Remember, this will be the live update pages for the launch when it happens, so let's keep this specific to the thread.

Offline Analyst

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #105 on: 12/15/2008 08:25 PM »
... this will be the live update pages for the launch when it happens, ...

Yes, but this "when" is always far in the future. Until this very date we can use this thread for any other purpose ... and not waste its very existence :) ;)

Sorry, I coundn't resist. Back to topic, whenever there is a launch.

Analyst

Offline SEDS-UCF

  • Member
  • Posts: 59
  • Michael P. Green
  • Orlando, FL
    • Students for the Exploration and Development of Space (SEDS-UCF)
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #106 on: 01/06/2009 05:52 AM »
Anyone have a recent update on this launch?  Last I heard it was supposed to launch during a TBA time on Jan. 13th.

I was out of town for the last Delta IV Heavy launch (and for the last two Shuttle launches, ironically all three for aerospace conferences) so can't wait to see it go in person.
The Students for the Exploration and Development of Space is the world's largest student run space organization. SEDS pursues this mission by educating people about the benefits of space and inspiring people through involvement in space-related projects.SEDS-UCF

Offline Nick L.

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3860
  • A unique little aerospace company
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #107 on: 01/06/2009 12:18 PM »
Still scheduled for Jan. 13. Fingers crossed... :D
"Now you may leave here for four days in space, but when you return it's the same old place..."

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16952
  • Liked: 1052
  • Likes Given: 471
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #108 on: 01/06/2009 11:37 PM »
Anybody thinking about going to watch this?  I am, just not sure if I'll be able to yet... :)

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2070
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 168
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #109 on: 01/06/2009 11:44 PM »
I intend to, of course my vantage point is about 1 mile away from my house. 

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16952
  • Liked: 1052
  • Likes Given: 471
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #110 on: 01/07/2009 12:10 AM »
I intend to, of course my vantage point is about 1 mile away from my house. 
That's cheating. ;D

Offline gladiator1332

  • Mike Majeski
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2428
  • Raleigh, NC
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #111 on: 01/07/2009 02:45 AM »
Looking forward to this launch. I've always been amazed by the Delta IV Heavy

Offline Jos

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0

Online DaveS

  • Shuttle program observer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 302
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #113 on: 01/07/2009 01:04 PM »
More info from Aviation Week: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/NRODSP12108.xml
Nothing new as that article is dated December 10 2008! So you're just repeating old and known facts. Nothing new at all.
"For Sardines, space is no problem!"
-1996 Astronaut class slogan

"We're rolling in the wrong direction but for the right reasons"
-USA engineer about the rollback of Discovery prior to the STS-114 Return To Flight mission

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12854
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3610
  • Likes Given: 618
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #114 on: 01/07/2009 03:27 PM »
More info from Aviation Week: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/NRODSP12108.xml

"The combined cost of the NROL-26 spacecraft and booster is upwards of $2 billion."

(gulp)

Makes me wonder where this ranks on the "most expensive space mission" scale.  Apollo missions must have cost substantially more than this.  Cassini cost more.  Hubble too, and surely several ISS missions if the cost of the station hardware was included.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline kfetter

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #115 on: 01/08/2009 12:11 AM »
They are saying so far, at the united launch alliance website, the launch date of Jan 13

http://www.ulalaunch.com/index.html

Offline ChrisGebhardt

  • Assistant Managing Editor
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • ad astra scientia
  • ~1 AU
  • Liked: 2190
  • Likes Given: 365
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #116 on: 01/08/2009 02:09 AM »
Anybody thinking about going to watch this?  I am, just not sure if I'll be able to yet... :)


Depends on the time. It's the first day of classes for me but if the launch is early enough or late enough, I'll be there.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #117 on: 01/09/2009 06:29 PM »
From ULA PAO Mike:

Hi, you’ll see releases from the Air Force, but just in case, I wanted to give you some critical times for the upcoming Delta IV heavy launch.

 

1)       The unclassified launch period was announced today.  The launch will take place Jan. 13, between 7 p.m. – midnight.  The exact launch time will be announced Jan. 12, 4 p.m.

2)       Remote camera set up/MST rollback:  Please meet at the old Space Florida parking lot at the front of Cape Canaveral AFS Jan. 13, 0745 for escort.  We’ll arrive at the pad at 0815 and depart at 1015.  The MST will rollback during this time so you can see the rocket.

3)       Launch viewing:  The meet time for media who need to be escorted to the KSC press site for the launch is Jan. 13, 6:15 p.m.  We will meet at the new KSC Pass and ID badging station near the KSC visitor complex on SR 405. Those media who are already KSC badged can proceed directly to the press site. 

 

Other Notes:  The launch broadcast will begin 25 minutes prior to T-0 and end just after payload fairing separation, approximately 8-10 minutes into the flight. It will also be simulcast on the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com.  The satellite coordinates are below:

 

Carrier: INTELSAT

Satellite: GALAXY 28C

Transponder - GAL28C-15

Orbital Position: 89 DEGREES WEST

Band: C

Bandwidth: 36.00 MHZ

Uplink Frequency: 6225.0000 Horizontal

Downlink Frequency: 4000.0000 Vertical

 

NOTE: SPLIT AUDIO

Complete Broadcast Audio on 6.8 MHz subcarrier (Right Channel Audio)

Rocket Blast-off / PAD ONLY audio 6.2  MHz subcarrier (Left Channel Audio)


Offline William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4060
  • Liked: 88
  • Likes Given: 57
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #118 on: 01/09/2009 07:02 PM »
From ULA PAO Mike:

Hi, you’ll see releases from the Air Force, but just in case, I wanted to give you some critical times for the upcoming Delta IV heavy launch.

 

1)       The unclassified launch period was announced today.  The launch will take place Jan. 13, between 7 p.m. – midnight.  The exact launch time will be announced Jan. 12, 4 p.m.

2)       Remote camera set up/MST rollback:  Please meet at the old Space Florida parking lot at the front of Cape Canaveral AFS Jan. 13, 0745 for escort.  We’ll arrive at the pad at 0815 and depart at 1015.  The MST will rollback during this time so you can see the rocket.

3)       Launch viewing:  The meet time for media who need to be escorted to the KSC press site for the launch is Jan. 13, 6:15 p.m.  We will meet at the new KSC Pass and ID badging station near the KSC visitor complex on SR 405. Those media who are already KSC badged can proceed directly to the press site. 

 

Other Notes:  The launch broadcast will begin 25 minutes prior to T-0 and end just after payload fairing separation, approximately 8-10 minutes into the flight. It will also be simulcast on the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com.  The satellite coordinates are below:

 

Carrier: INTELSAT

Satellite: GALAXY 28C

Transponder - GAL28C-15

Orbital Position: 89 DEGREES WEST

Band: C

Bandwidth: 36.00 MHZ

Uplink Frequency: 6225.0000 Horizontal

Downlink Frequency: 4000.0000 Vertical

 

NOTE: SPLIT AUDIO

Complete Broadcast Audio on 6.8 MHz subcarrier (Right Channel Audio)

Rocket Blast-off / PAD ONLY audio 6.2  MHz subcarrier (Left Channel Audio)



Are those times in EST?

Offline Nick L.

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3860
  • A unique little aerospace company
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Delta IV Heavy: NRO L-26
« Reply #119 on: 01/10/2009 06:05 PM »
I think so. I assume the timing of the webcast end is due to the classified payload?
"Now you may leave here for four days in space, but when you return it's the same old place..."

Tags: