Author Topic: Node 3 / Cupola news  (Read 51140 times)

Offline anik

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Node 3 / Cupola news
« on: 03/13/2008 02:33 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bulletin133/bul133_pip.pdf

The quote from page 69:

"Node 3 has been advanced in the Assembly Sequence and is currently scheduled to launch October 2009 (with the Cupola attached) following delivery of Node-3 to NASA in February 2009"

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #1 on: 03/13/2008 02:39 PM »
I would have thought clearance issues would have made that impossible.

Offline stockman

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #2 on: 03/13/2008 02:57 PM »
I could be wrong but I thought that node 3 and cupula were going up on the same flight but that the cupula would be on a pallet (not attached to Node3 for the flight. Once Node 3 gets attached then cupula could be attached to the appropriate port

Speaking of cupula.. here is a current picture of her sitting in the ISS processing facility.

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Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #3 on: 03/13/2008 03:03 PM »
No! Cupola is launched attached to the forward end of Node 3 (no clearance issues) and the relocated to the side afterwards... :)

Offline stockman

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #4 on: 03/13/2008 03:05 PM »
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 13/3/2008  12:03 PM

No! Cupola is launched attached to the forward end of Node 3 (no clearance issues) and the relocated to the side afterwards... :)



ahh.. thanks for clarifying.
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Offline Chandonn

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #5 on: 03/13/2008 03:14 PM »
Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  11:57 AM

I could be wrong but I thought that node 3 and cupula were going up on the same flight but that the cupula would be on a pallet (not attached to Node3 for the flight. Once Node 3 gets attached then cupula could be attached to the appropriate port

Speaking of cupula.. here is a current picture of her sitting in the ISS processing facility.


In some earlier versions of the launch sequence, the cupola was to be launched on a pallet and later attached to the port CBM of Unity.  That may be the source of the confusion.  It is simpler to attach it to the forward active CBM of Node 3 when it's all launched up together, and then relocate it.

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #6 on: 03/13/2008 03:20 PM »
It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

Offline DwightM

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #7 on: 03/13/2008 03:37 PM »
Quote
anik - 13/3/2008  7:33 AM

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bulletin133/bul133_pip.pdf

The quote from page 69:

"Node 3 has been advanced in the Assembly Sequence and is currently scheduled to launch October 2009 (with the Cupola attached) following delivery of Node-3 to NASA in February 2009"

So this means that STS-130 is now 20A and that 19A and ULF 4 will shift to the right, correct?

Offline stockman

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #8 on: 03/13/2008 03:45 PM »
Quote
catfry - 13/3/2008  12:20 PM

It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

I certainly don't think its frivolous. Can you live without it? probably but there are some uses here.

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.


THere may be other reasons for it but that is what jumps off the list to me immediately.
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Offline Shadow Spork

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #9 on: 03/13/2008 03:54 PM »
I think it's also the final place where the SSRMS workstation will be located... at least the last time I checked.

Offline anik

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #10 on: 03/13/2008 03:57 PM »
Quote
DwightM - 13/3/2008  7:37 PM

So this means that STS-130 is now 20A and that 19A and ULF 4 will shift to the right, correct?

Yes, Dwight. Node 3 with Cupola will be in October 2009 instead of April 2010. :)

Offline Norm Hartnett

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #11 on: 03/13/2008 04:30 PM »
It is interesting that ESA has published this first. I just checked several online Shuttle manifest sites and none of them are showing this.

It is unsurprising that NASA would make this move since the flight history since the return to flight has shown a consistent shuffling to the right. This positions NASA to be able to abort up to the last three flights if necessary to avoid exceeding their self imposed 2010 deadline if the shuffling continues.
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Offline perian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #12 on: 03/13/2008 04:34 PM »
Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  6:45 PM

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.



4) control of the space station remote manipulator system (robotic workstations will be in Cupola)

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #13 on: 03/13/2008 04:42 PM »
Quote
stockman - 12/3/2008  6:45 PM

Quote
catfry - 13/3/2008  12:20 PM

It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

I certainly don't think its frivolous. Can you live without it? probably but there are some uses here.

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier
I'll grant you that the larger FOV will make spotting areas of interest much, much easier, and the ability to image earth areas in other directions than close to straight downwards will also be a benefit, but on the other hand you lose detail because you have to pentrate more of the atmosphere.

Quote
2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.
I think this benefit is limited. The external cameras seems to be excellent in tracking whats going on, from what I can see on Nasa tv. The robot arm have its own cameras both on the main and on Dextre so thats also covered. I really think what you get from Cupola in this respect is only slightly better than the cameras, and there is only that one vantage point whereas cameras can monitor from mutiple angles.

Quote
3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.
There is actually a window in Zvezda that is 15-16 inches across, so not as large as the lab window but still nice.
I'll give you that anything that helps the mental state of the astros is a good thing, and the Cupola will make tourism to the station even more attractive!

One thing I'm wondering about is how much of the time the mmod shields in front of the windows will be allowed to be in the "open" position. The windows will be facing to the side, as opposed to downwards, and even towards the velocity vector of the station, so it seems to me they are more at risk of mmod, than the normal windows. This leads me to another question; Why was it decided to point the Cupola this direction?

EDIT: Well.. Ok, I'll give you that the Cupola pobably will get a better overview of the situation, if you can se your actions with the arm from there.
I also trust that as usual some smart people at Nasa have been going over this and wheighed for and against but I still think it is only a marginally useful component.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #14 on: 03/13/2008 05:22 PM »
Quote
perian - 13/3/2008  12:34 PM

Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  6:45 PM

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.



4) control of the space station remote manipulator system (robotic workstations will be in Cupola)

Bingo. The Cupola's prime rationale is improving the safety of SSRMS ops by allowing direct viewing, rather than needing to manipulate quite so many cameras as they use now.
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Offline redgryphon

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #15 on: 03/13/2008 05:39 PM »
Especially when capturing the free flying HTV, I'd guess. The cupola on Node 3 will allow an excellent view as the HTV approaches Node 2 from below and then stationkeeps while the SSRMS grabs it.

Offline erioladastra

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #16 on: 03/13/2008 08:11 PM »
"It is interesting that ESA has published this first. I just checked several online Shuttle manifest sites and none of them are showing this. "

Thats because it is not 100% official.  Very likely but still needs the final approval.

To answer some other questions...  It will now go on the port side of Node 1 and the Cupola will be nadir.

Yes, it provides some great views for rendezvous vehicles and that will be its primary use.

The cupola may be the final place for the cupola RWS (hence the name).  However, there are pros to having them back to back for redundancy and video monitors.  For robotics a window strictly speaking is not required.

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #17 on: 03/13/2008 08:15 PM »
"I think this benefit is limited. The external cameras seems to be excellent in tracking whats going on, from what I can see on Nasa tv. The robot arm have its own cameras both on the main and on Dextre so thats also covered. I really think what you get from Cupola in this respect is only slightly better than the cameras, and there is only that one vantage point whereas cameras can monitor from mutiple angles."

True to a point but there are specific areas like RS nadir (which will become more interesting in the future) and parts of JEM as well as some areas of the truss that analysis shows you get a better view.

"There is actually a window in Zvezda that is 15-16 inches across, so not as large as the lab window but still nice. "

Not very good quality.

"One thing I'm wondering about is how much of the time the mmod shields in front of the windows will be allowed to be in the "open" position. "

Correct but the crews can open and more critically they can have it open for rendezvousing vehicles.

Offline psloss

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #18 on: 03/13/2008 10:35 PM »
Quote
Chandonn - 13/3/2008  12:14 PM

In some earlier versions of the launch sequence, the cupola was to be launched on a pallet and later attached to the port CBM of Unity.  That may be the source of the confusion.  It is simpler to attach it to the forward active CBM of Node 3 when it's all launched up together, and then relocate it.
I think the 20A mission was/is tight on performance margin; the pallet might have been eliminated to recover some of that...


Offline hanschristian

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #19 on: 03/15/2008 10:15 AM »
Quote
erioladastra - 13/3/2008  4:11 PM


To answer some other questions...  It will now go on the port side of Node 1 and the Cupola will be nadir.


Node 3 on port CBM of Node 1 and Cupola will be on Node 1 Nadir CBM?

Hmmm... I'm wondering why would they choose this configuration... would it be better to have the configuration depicted in the last CG art? With Node 3 on Node 1 nadir CBM, Cupola on Node 3 forward CBM and PMA 3 on Node 3 nadir CBM? This configuration would make more sense, PMA 3 now has adequate clearance for nadir-docking vehicles like Orion, and with Cupola facing both forward (which could be better for earth observation, as well as a much better view of approaching vehicles like the Shuttle, HTV and Orion) and allows more than adequate view of all US/International partners labs and the whole ITA, which can be more advantageous for SSRMS/SPDM operations as well as EVAs...

Because if the Cupola's going to be in Node 1 Nadir, PMA 3 would go nowhere but any of Node 3's CBMs, which, if they decided to plug it to Node 1 port CBM, PMA 3 would only be good as a spare PMA, in case PMA 2 fails... Otherwise, It would only sit there doing nothing but serving as an extra cabinet...

But then again, its up to the people upstairs to decide...
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Online nacnud

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #20 on: 03/15/2008 11:46 AM »
Maybe having node 3 on the port CBM of unity is so the nadir port of Zarya is kept open. Having Node 3 on the Nair port of Unit blocks this. Node 3 can always be moved to Nadir Unity once a permanent module has been installed at Nadir Zarya

Offline erioladastra

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #21 on: 03/15/2008 02:22 PM »
"Node 3 on port CBM of Node 1 and Cupola will be on Node 1 Nadir CBM? "

No, Node 3 on port side of Node 1, and Cupola on Nadir of Node 3.  We did look at Cupola on nadir of Mode 1 which actually would be slightly better but would cost more than it is worth to replan for it there.

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #22 on: 03/15/2008 02:31 PM »
By having Node 3 attached to the port Unity CBM, is this a sign that the Russian DCM module has been delayed?

Offline JJ..

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #23 on: 03/15/2008 03:33 PM »
so .. will node 3 be on the opposite side of unity to quest ?

have i got that right ?

thanks,
JJ..
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Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #24 on: 03/15/2008 03:41 PM »
Quote
JJ.. - 15/3/2008  5:33 PM

so .. will node 3 be on the opposite side of unity to quest ?

have i got that right ?

thanks,
JJ..

Apparantly, but it seems strange why they would do this. Having Node 3 on the nadir port seemed far better... :o

Offline redgryphon

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #25 on: 03/15/2008 04:27 PM »
I think the DCM is part of this question. When is it due to arrive at KSC?

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #26 on: 03/15/2008 04:30 PM »
Quote
redgryphon - 15/3/2008  6:27 PM

Wasn't there an issue with soyuz/progress dockings to Zarya nadir port if Node 3 was installed on Node 1 nadir? At least until the Russian DCM was installed?

Yes, but DCM was scheduled to be launched before Node 3 (not sure about the schedule now), so there wouldn't be a problem...

Offline hanschristian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #27 on: 03/16/2008 03:59 AM »
I think Node 3 nadir of Node 1 would be much better...

If Node 3's gonna ba permanently bolted to Node 1 port, practically all of Node 3's CBMs are inaccessible to future expansion of the ISS (if there IS a plan), plus PMA 3 cannot be used for its main purpose., leaving the ISS 1 docking port short... and the Cupola would be limited in its SSRMS workstation capability... although Earth Observation would not be compromised much...

I think what erioladastra's opinion is more valid for the meantime, to give way for the DCM to be docked on Zarya's Nadir port... it makes a lot more sense to me...


But  for the meantime, I'll just wait for them to launch these things... :)

BTW, what is the current status of the DCM?
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Offline Chandonn

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #28 on: 03/16/2008 01:23 PM »
Quote
hanschristian - 16/3/2008  12:59 AM

I think Node 3 nadir of Node 1 would be much better...

If Node 3's gonna ba permanently bolted to Node 1 port, practically all of Node 3's CBMs are inaccessible to future expansion of the ISS (if there IS a plan), plus PMA 3 cannot be used for its main purpose., leaving the ISS 1 docking port short... and the Cupola would be limited in its SSRMS workstation capability... although Earth Observation would not be compromised much...

I think what erioladastra's opinion is more valid for the meantime, to give way for the DCM to be docked on Zarya's Nadir port... it makes a lot more sense to me...


But  for the meantime, I'll just wait for them to launch these things... :)

BTW, what is the current status of the DCM?

Well, if DCM is still slated to be launched by a Proton, it may be a while after the recent failure.  I seem to recall a few ideas about bringing it up via shuttle, but DCM was designed for a Proton, so I'm not sure how well that would work.

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #29 on: 03/16/2008 02:24 PM »

Offline hektor

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #30 on: 03/16/2008 03:45 PM »
Aren't you mixing MLM and DCM ?

Offline brahmanknight

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #31 on: 03/16/2008 03:53 PM »
Yeah....the Multipurpose Labratory Module  will be launched Proton ( if it ever does ) and the Docking Cargo Module will be launched by shuttle on STS 131.

Offline hanschristian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #32 on: 03/17/2008 11:04 AM »
Will the DCM be the last module to be flown to the ISS to be considered "complete"?

And also, I've heard that the AMS experiment instruments are still "under construction", but from what I've learned from here, there's no shuttle launch available for it...

so what would be the future of this equipment
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Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #33 on: 03/17/2008 11:11 AM »
Quote
hanschristian - 17/3/2008  8:04 AM

And also, I've heard that the AMS experiment instruments are still "under construction", but from what I've learned from here, there's no shuttle launch available for it...

so what would be the future of this equipment

TBD

Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #34 on: 03/17/2008 07:36 PM »
Quote
hanschristian - 16/3/2008  12:59 AM
I think Node 3 nadir of Node 1 would be much better...

1.  If Node 3's gonna ba permanently bolted to Node 1 port, practically all of Node 3's CBMs are inaccessible to future expansion of the ISS (if there IS a plan)

2.  , plus PMA 3 cannot be used for its main purpose., leaving the ISS 1 docking port short..

1.  What expansion?  there is none.

2.  How so?

Offline hanschristian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #35 on: 03/19/2008 03:36 AM »
Quote
Jim - 17/3/2008  3:36 PM

Quote
hanschristian - 16/3/2008  12:59 AM
I think Node 3 nadir of Node 1 would be much better...

1.  If Node 3's gonna ba permanently bolted to Node 1 port, practically all of Node 3's CBMs are inaccessible to future expansion of the ISS (if there IS a plan)

2.  , plus PMA 3 cannot be used for its main purpose., leaving the ISS 1 docking port short..

1.  What expansion?  there is none.

2.  How so?


1. I'm just making an assumption that since Node 3 will still be equipped with CBMs, they may consider expanding the station at some point after the official construction timeline is over, and/or if and only if NASA would extend ISS operations beyond 2016... After all, why bother making Node 3 with all of those unused CBMs (and I mean no module permanently bolted in it)? Why just make it with only the necessary CBMs in it, and sump the rest and put a permanent plug in it, just like those deleted docking ports on Zvezda's port and starboad side?

2. My reason for this is I was thinking during that time that the Cupola will be placed in Node 1 nadir port, not Node 3 nadir port... and that the PMA 3 would be berthed somewhere in Node 3, but after seeing the latest graphic for the current final planned configuration, then my reason is invalid anymore...

But that leaves me a question, is there any proximity issues for any future docking spacecraft that would use PMA 3? The DCM is just a few meters from it... so is there any issue?
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Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #36 on: 03/19/2008 10:31 AM »
Quote
hanschristian - 19/3/2008  12:36 AM
 After all, why bother making Node 3 with all of those unused CBMs (and I mean no module permanently bolted in it)? Why just make it with only the necessary CBMs in it, and sump the rest and put a permanent plug in it, just like those deleted docking ports on Zvezda's port and starboad side?

Because it is cheaper than making a 3rd node configuration.

Offline hanschristian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #37 on: 03/19/2008 02:32 PM »
Quote
Jim - 19/3/2008  6:31 AM

Quote
hanschristian - 19/3/2008  12:36 AM
 After all, why bother making Node 3 with all of those unused CBMs (and I mean no module permanently bolted in it)? Why just make it with only the necessary CBMs in it, and sump the rest and put a permanent plug in it, just like those deleted docking ports on Zvezda's port and starboad side?

Because it is cheaper than making a 3rd node configuration.

Third Node config, you mean a redesign or remanufacture? A bit confused on that part... sorry...

Also, I've read in the Russian Segment thread about the issue of Node 3 being not possible to be placed on Node 1 port because of the proximity issue of the Node to the P-1 truss radiators, and practically the reason why those radiators weren't deployed at the same time as the S-1 truss radiators during STS-120...
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Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #38 on: 03/19/2008 02:49 PM »
Quote
hanschristian - 19/3/2008  11:32 AM


Third Node config, you mean a redesign or remanufacture? A bit confused on that part... sorry...
.

new drawings and analysis.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #39 on: 03/20/2008 03:26 PM »
Quote
Jim - 19/3/2008  10:49 AM

Quote
hanschristian - 19/3/2008  11:32 AM


Third Node config, you mean a redesign or remanufacture? A bit confused on that part... sorry...
.

new drawings and analysis.

Ah I see... thanks!
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #40 on: 03/21/2008 06:23 PM »
Note on the DCM, seems it has been renamed to Mini-Research Module 1, however since my source is wikipedia do no know if it is definite.
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #41 on: 06/20/2008 06:43 AM »

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #42 on: 07/09/2008 07:18 PM »
Snap shot of Cupola being processed on it's side:

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #43 on: 11/08/2008 05:45 PM »
FDRD Mission Baseline Presentation for STS-130/Node3/Cupola was presented to the shuttle managers late this week, and is on L2 to download if you have it. Probably will be a news article in the future too.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #44 on: 11/12/2008 01:08 AM »
FDRD Mission Baseline Presentation for STS-130/Node3/Cupola was presented to the shuttle managers late this week, and is on L2 to download if you have it. Probably will be a news article in the future too.

Baselined as a 12+1+2 mission with 3 EVAs.  Node 3 will be attached and activated and Cupola will be relocated and activated.  All the modifications to Node 1 required to reposition Node 3 from the nadir to the port position will be done prior and moslty on ULF-3.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #45 on: 11/12/2008 01:32 AM »
Probably will be a news article in the future too.

Perhaps... ;)

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #46 on: 11/14/2008 12:28 PM »
Has there been any word yet on Node 3's name, or on a student contest to select a name?
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #47 on: 11/14/2008 12:41 PM »

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #48 on: 11/19/2008 08:47 PM »
i just watched an interactive on the nasa.gov site relating to the 10 year anniversy of the station and the 360 fly around in animation has node 3 on the port side CBM instead of the nadir...

i guess its offical... makes no sence to me.. i think its a mistake to locate node 3 there..

i guess the british HEM idea will stay just an IDEA

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #49 on: 11/23/2008 11:20 AM »
i just watched an interactive on the nasa.gov site relating to the 10 year anniversy of the station and the 360 fly around in animation has node 3 on the port side CBM instead of the nadir...

i guess its offical... makes no sence to me.. i think its a mistake to locate node 3 there..

i guess the british HEM idea will stay just an IDEA

So if Node-3 can't go on the bottom of Node-1... then what will become of PMA-3? Will it be to risky to try and dock Orion to it with MRM-2 just next door? Node-3 would have helped it stick out more.
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #50 on: 11/23/2008 01:32 PM »

So if Node-3 can't go on the bottom of Node-1... then what will become of PMA-3? Will it be to risky to try and dock Orion to it with MRM-2 just next door? Node-3 would have helped it stick out more.


Orion will dock to PMA-2, PMA-3 will become a spare part, like it is now. Sad, but true?
« Last Edit: 11/23/2008 01:33 PM by perian »

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #51 on: 11/23/2008 07:27 PM »

So if Node-3 can't go on the bottom of Node-1... then what will become of PMA-3? Will it be to risky to try and dock Orion to it with MRM-2 just next door? Node-3 would have helped it stick out more.


Orion will dock to PMA-2, PMA-3 will become a spare part, like it is now. Sad, but true?

Oh, I always thought it was the backup docking port for shuttle/orion?

Offline MKremer

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #52 on: 11/24/2008 01:25 AM »
I thought PMA-3 was always considered an on-orbit spare (note how its been constantly shuffled around on Node-1 and to and from Z-1 with no actual use from it).

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #53 on: 11/24/2008 02:04 AM »
I thought PMA-3 was always considered an on-orbit spare (note how its been constantly shuffled around on Node-1 and to and from Z-1 with no actual use from it).


Actually, it was used for shuttle docking during STS-97 (P6) and STS-98 (Destiny). Hasn't been needed since though.
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #54 on: 11/24/2008 08:03 AM »
PMA-3 constantly shuffled? It was put at Node-1 nadir during STS-92, was moved to Node-1 port during STS-102 and back to Node-1 nadir before STS-120. It has never been at Z-1. This was PMA-2 during STS-98, for a few days only.

When Orion starts flying sometime (late?) in the next decade, they can - in theory - relocate Node-3. Or there is another module by then. Or whatever. There is plenty of time to make new plans. Nothing to worry about today.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #55 on: 12/01/2008 05:06 AM »
so if node 3 will be berthed on Node 1 port, then that means Node 3 will supposedly the "new" habitation module, since they will fit it with the necessary stuff for astro/cosmonaut lodging, right?

as for cupola, will it be placed on Node 3 nadir?
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #56 on: 12/01/2008 12:09 PM »
1) so if node 3 will be berthed on Node 1 port, then that means Node 3 will supposedly the "new" habitation module, since they will fit it with the necessary stuff for astro/cosmonaut lodging, right?

2) as for cupola, will it be placed on Node 3 nadir?

1) No. Three crew quarters will be in Node-2, one most likely stays in Destiny (TESS), two are in SM. Node-3 will mostly carry environmental racks like the ones launched with STS-126.

2) Yes.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #57 on: 12/01/2008 01:44 PM »
I see... thanks!!!
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #58 on: 12/01/2008 01:58 PM »
 If Orion winds up being the on station lifeboat, and gets changed out every crew swap, both PMAs could see action.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #59 on: 12/01/2008 06:09 PM »
1) No. Three crew quarters will be in Node-2, one most likely stays in Destiny (TESS), two are in SM. Node-3 will mostly carry environmental racks like the ones launched with STS-126.

Analyst

Personally I think that it would be better to have the 4 crew quater racks in Node 3 as they are more out of the way as Node 2 is a busy junction and more exposed. I think the astronauts would rather have a more private module to sleep in, with the other 4 rack spaces for storage and habitation. Just my opinion... :D

Just out of interest, the 'new galley' launched on STS-126, where will this go? There woud be plenty of space in the Node 3 hatch area, as no other components apart from PMA3 will be attached to the module, so that's a useful area to have a crew dining area.. :)

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #60 on: 12/01/2008 06:18 PM »
1) No. Three crew quarters will be in Node-2, one most likely stays in Destiny (TESS), two are in SM. Node-3 will mostly carry environmental racks like the ones launched with STS-126.

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Personally I think that it would be better to have the 4 crew quater racks in Node 3 as they are more out of the way as Node 2 is a busy junction and more exposed. I think the astronauts would rather have a more private module to sleep in, with the other 4 rack spaces for storage and habitation. Just my opinion... :D

Just out of interest, the 'new galley' launched on STS-126, where will this go? There woud be plenty of space in the Node 3 hatch area, as no other components apart from PMA3 will be attached to the module, so that's a useful area to have a crew dining area.. :)

Well if you really want a prvate place, there is always the ELM-PS, although I am pretty sure that it does not provide power to racks or has enough ventilation for three- four people
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #61 on: 12/01/2008 11:14 PM »
Cupola looks like it is getting fit checks:
« Last Edit: 12/01/2008 11:15 PM by Ronsmytheiii »
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #62 on: 12/02/2008 06:41 PM »
from today:
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #63 on: 12/02/2008 08:07 PM »
Thanks for the screenshots.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #64 on: 09/01/2009 02:41 PM »
Work progressing on Cupola:

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #65 on: 09/01/2009 03:09 PM »
It appears that the Cupola will be launched while mated to Node 3 via CBM. This means that CBM will have to withstand launch loads in this mated condition, which I don't imagine was one of the design criteria for CBM. I would bet that a lot of analysis was done to make this possible.

Has any other docking or berthing interface ever been launched with attached objects on both sides of the interfaces? I don't think so.


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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #66 on: 09/01/2009 03:15 PM »
It appears that the Cupola will be launched while mated to Node 3 via CBM. This means that CBM will have to withstand launch loads in this mated condition, which I don't imagine was one of the design criteria for CBM. I would bet that a lot of analysis was done to make this possible.

Has any other docking or berthing interface ever been launched with attached objects on both sides of the interfaces? I don't think so.

Wasn't Unity launched with PMAs attached to both ends via CBM?
« Last Edit: 09/01/2009 03:16 PM by Sesquipedalian »

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #67 on: 09/01/2009 03:25 PM »
It appears that the Cupola will be launched while mated to Node 3 via CBM. This means that CBM will have to withstand launch loads in this mated condition, which I don't imagine was one of the design criteria for CBM. I would bet that a lot of analysis was done to make this possible.

Has any other docking or berthing interface ever been launched with attached objects on both sides of the interfaces? I don't think so.

Wasn't Unity launched with PMAs attached to both ends via CBM?

Yes, PMA1 and PMA2 were already attached to Unity on STS-88.  The aft CBM has not been cycled AFAIK, the fore CBM was used to demate PMA2 and mate Destiny.  So, we know the CBMs can still function after being launched with a load attached.
« Last Edit: 09/01/2009 03:25 PM by Chandonn »

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #68 on: 09/09/2009 09:22 PM »
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2009/09/node_3_location.html

I was hoping to see some comment on this decision here but everyone is silent.

Budget is driving choices that will end up costing the program more in the long run is my initial take.

Relocating (swapping) both Node 3 and PLM doesn't strike me as very practical or easy. No indication as to the final resting place for PMA3 is given either, presumably Node 3 Port.

This decision ought to be pointed out to Congress, it will clearly put an end to any possible future expansion of the station.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2009 09:26 PM by Norm Hartnett »
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #69 on: 09/11/2009 02:40 AM »
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2009/09/node_3_location.html

I was hoping to see some comment on this decision here but everyone is silent.

Budget is driving choices that will end up costing the program more in the long run is my initial take.

Relocating (swapping) both Node 3 and PLM doesn't strike me as very practical or easy. No indication as to the final resting place for PMA3 is given either, presumably Node 3 Port.

This decision ought to be pointed out to Congress, it will clearly put an end to any possible future expansion of the station.


No it does not put any end.  There are still options one of which could be moving Node 3.  However, the issue was whether to do that now.  After all the work to head towards putting Node 3 on the port, to move it back to nadir would cost a huge amount now if it were to happen next year.  The big driver is the end of the shuttle.  If there were more time it could be accomodated more reasonably.  But to replan at such a late date was too risky.  There are other options for growth so nothing is blocked.  Now, perhaps things could have been better planned out but we are where we are - the ending of the shuttle is a huge impact to ISS and this is one example.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #70 on: 09/11/2009 10:28 AM »
What's the big cost in
moving it back to node1 z? The extra EVAs needed?

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #71 on: 09/11/2009 01:33 PM »
What's the big cost in
moving it back to node1 z? The extra EVAs needed?

The presentation on L2 made it quite clear that it was Avionics Software changes, and then the required testing, simulation, and training that goes along with all that.  The presentation indicated that approximately 400 PCS displays were impacted, and that was just one system... 


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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #72 on: 09/11/2009 03:07 PM »
There are other options for growth so nothing is blocked. 

I hope people are reading between the lines on this one...

Take it as you like.  ;)
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Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #73 on: 09/11/2009 03:09 PM »
No it does not put any end.  There are still options one of which could be moving Node 3.  However, the issue was whether to do that now.  After all the work to head towards putting Node 3 on the port, to move it back to nadir would cost a huge amount now if it were to happen next year.  The big driver is the end of the shuttle.  If there were more time it could be accomodated more reasonably.  But to replan at such a late date was too risky.  There are other options for growth so nothing is blocked.  Now, perhaps things could have been better planned out but we are where we are - the ending of the shuttle is a huge impact to ISS and this is one example.

Thanks Eric,

Assuming that Augustine Committee recommendations are adopted, at least as far as the more realistic Shuttle end date of mid 2011 and the extension of ISS to 2020, and assuming these activities are fully funded...

LOL - OK that's too many assumptions even for me.

I hope that Congress can and will restore enough funding within the 2010 and 2011 budgets to get Node 3 back where it belongs.
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #74 on: 09/11/2009 03:09 PM »
There are other options for growth so nothing is blocked. 

I hope people are reading between the lines on this one...

For those of us who can't ;) can you explain what's in between the lines?

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #75 on: 09/12/2009 12:55 AM »
No it does not put any end.  There are still options one of which could be moving Node 3.  However, the issue was whether to do that now.  After all the work to head towards putting Node 3 on the port, to move it back to nadir would cost a huge amount now if it were to happen next year.  The big driver is the end of the shuttle.  If there were more time it could be accomodated more reasonably.  But to replan at such a late date was too risky.  There are other options for growth so nothing is blocked.  Now, perhaps things could have been better planned out but we are where we are - the ending of the shuttle is a huge impact to ISS and this is one example.

Thanks Eric,

Assuming that Augustine Committee recommendations are adopted, at least as far as the more realistic Shuttle end date of mid 2011 and the extension of ISS to 2020, and assuming these activities are fully funded...

LOL - OK that's too many assumptions even for me.

I hope that Congress can and will restore enough funding within the 2010 and 2011 budgets to get Node 3 back where it belongs.


At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #76 on: 09/12/2009 05:59 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #77 on: 09/12/2009 06:40 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #78 on: 09/12/2009 08:16 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)

But that will have its place on Node 1 zenith. I was talking about a module that isn't planned today and will need a place currently not available.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #79 on: 09/12/2009 10:51 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)

But that will have its place on Node 1 zenith. I was talking about a module that isn't planned today and will need a place currently not available.

Nit (because it's often-repeated): If it goes on Node 1 Zenith, they'll have to move the Z1 truss.

Offline arkaska

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #80 on: 09/12/2009 11:16 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)

But that will have its place on Node 1 zenith. I was talking about a module that isn't planned today and will need a place currently not available.

Nit (because it's often-repeated): If it goes on Node 1 Zenith, they'll have to move the Z1 truss.

The earth facing port then, I always mix up the names of all the ports.

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #81 on: 09/13/2009 04:15 PM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)

There are enough ports for the PLM with Node 3 on the port side.  PLM will be just fine on Node 1 nadir.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #82 on: 09/14/2009 05:06 AM »

At this point even extending the shuttle to 2011 won't change where Node 3 goes at this point.  If we add more shuttles and Orion is really coming in the 'near future', then it might move.  However, like I said, there is not neccesarily a reason to at this point.  A lot depends on what happens in the ISS program and if a real need is identified.

And the only real reason I can see is if another module coming up. And that's a BIG if.

Well, erm, we do have another module coming up. PLM Raffaello. ;)

There are enough ports for the PLM with Node 3 on the port side.  PLM will be just fine on Node 1 nadir.

however it will obstruct the viewing area for the cupola, while it will not on node 2 zenith
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #83 on: 09/14/2009 06:19 PM »
however it will obstruct the viewing area for the cupola, while it will not on node 2 zenith

Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2009 06:20 PM by Norm Hartnett »
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Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #84 on: 09/14/2009 07:52 PM »
Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

there will be the same amount of MMOD risk at N2 zenith as there is at n1 nadir, as both are in the plane of motion.  Also, without PMA-3 it would not be hard to berth a visiting spacecraft to node 1 nadir as the SSRMS and craft would not be obstructed by structures as much as they would be going to N2 zenith
« Last Edit: 09/14/2009 07:52 PM by Ronsmytheiii »
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #85 on: 09/14/2009 07:54 PM »
Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

there will be the same amount of MMOD risk at N2 zenith as there is at n1 nadir, as both are in the plane of motion.

Incorrect. The ISS TEA attitude is pitched down several degrees, so N2 and Destiny provide some MMOD shadowing for N1n. Also, the MMOD flux is higher on the top sides than the bottom.
JRF

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #86 on: 09/14/2009 08:02 PM »
cupola nicely mated and ready...
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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #87 on: 09/14/2009 08:52 PM »
cupola nicely mated and ready...

I thought it was going to be launched in the permanent position, I guess I was wrong. So does the Cupola have a hatch like all the other modules?

(they should have several Cupolas spread around the station ;))
« Last Edit: 09/14/2009 08:53 PM by arkaska »

Offline psloss

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #88 on: 09/14/2009 09:03 PM »
cupola nicely mated and ready...

I thought it was going to be launched in the permanent position, I guess I was wrong. So does the Cupola have a hatch like all the other modules?
Can't be launched on any of the radial CBMs, won't fit in the orbiter.  Z1 also has a hatch and vestibule.

Offline simon-th

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #89 on: 09/14/2009 09:07 PM »

(they should have several Cupolas spread around the station ;))

Two were originally planned as far as I know. But they were determined to actually not be required. Actually, even that one Cupola isn't really required. It's more a "nice to have."

Offline arkaska

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #90 on: 09/14/2009 09:52 PM »
cupola nicely mated and ready...

I thought it was going to be launched in the permanent position, I guess I was wrong. So does the Cupola have a hatch like all the other modules?
Can't be launched on any of the radial CBMs, won't fit in the orbiter.  Z1 also has a hatch and vestibule.


Of course it wouldn't fit the orbiter, maybe I should use my brain next time. But does the Cupola have a hatch? I can't see where it would fit in an open configuration.

Had no idea Z1 had an pressurized vestibule, always heard is completely unpressurized.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #91 on: 09/14/2009 10:11 PM »
Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

there will be the same amount of MMOD risk at N2 zenith as there is at n1 nadir, as both are in the plane of motion.

Incorrect. The ISS TEA attitude is pitched down several degrees, so N2 and Destiny provide some MMOD shadowing for N1n. Also, the MMOD flux is higher on the top sides than the bottom.


 Wouldn't you rather have the MPLM provide some shadowing for Destiny?

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #92 on: 09/14/2009 10:26 PM »
Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

there will be the same amount of MMOD risk at N2 zenith as there is at n1 nadir, as both are in the plane of motion.

Incorrect. The ISS TEA attitude is pitched down several degrees, so N2 and Destiny provide some MMOD shadowing for N1n. Also, the MMOD flux is higher on the top sides than the bottom.


 Wouldn't you rather have the MPLM provide some shadowing for Destiny?

Destiny already has adequate shielding for its placement at the station. The PLM does not.
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Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #93 on: 09/14/2009 10:27 PM »
cupola nicely mated and ready...

I thought it was going to be launched in the permanent position, I guess I was wrong. So does the Cupola have a hatch like all the other modules?
Can't be launched on any of the radial CBMs, won't fit in the orbiter.  Z1 also has a hatch and vestibule.


Of course it wouldn't fit the orbiter, maybe I should use my brain next time. But does the Cupola have a hatch? I can't see where it would fit in an open configuration.

The Cupola has no hatch.
JRF

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #94 on: 09/15/2009 04:03 PM »
Had no idea Z1 had an pressurized vestibule, always heard is completely unpressurized.

I remember this coming up before. It is known as the Z1 Dome, if I recall. At one point, someone posted pics of the dome area here.

You can read about the procedure they used to access the volume here:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=16792

Quote
Preparatory to accessing the "dome" volume of the Z1 truss, the crew removed the RED from the Node "ceiling". (RED was temporarily removed from its Node location by disconnecting parts from the hardmount plate, in order to gain access to the dome hatch. Tomorrow, two new and two old support block and pad assemblies will be reinstalled after lubrication. Afterwards the RED will be recalibrated.)

The crew then ingressed the Z1 dome and rearranged stowage equipment in the normally sealed space. (This was the second of a three-part stowage reconfiguration aimed at maximizing available stowage space and alleviating some of the current stowage congestion in an effort to improve habitability on ISS. Since there was no pressure inside the Z1 volume, the crew first opened the MPEV (manual pressure equalization valve), and the resulting change in cabin pressure was to verify that there was no leak from Z1 to vacuum before hatch opening. Wearing goggles and dust masks, the crew then opened the hatch and ingressed the space. They removed items approved for stowage into PMA-3 (Pressurized Mating Adapter 3) and then filled the empty space with hardware approved for the Z1 environment. The hatch was closed afterwards.)

Edit: In the KSC Media Gallery, there are images of Z1 before it's flight. This one shows the exterior of the dome area. It's on the right.

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=4694

Still trying to find interior images. No luck yet.
« Last Edit: 09/15/2009 04:40 PM by YesRushGen »

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #95 on: 09/16/2009 05:14 PM »
however it will obstruct the viewing area for the cupola, while it will not on node 2 zenith

Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

Actually N2z is perfectly fine.  Any place is going to require the PLM to increase its MMOD shielding.  Until last week when it was decided to leave Node 3 on N1 port, N2z was the preffered spot for the PLM since it would be close to your visiting vehicles.  The crew wants the PLM to be along the axis of the station for efficiency so N2z or N1n works equally well.

PLM on N1n does not affect any planned/needed views from the cupola.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #96 on: 09/16/2009 06:17 PM »
however it will obstruct the viewing area for the cupola, while it will not on node 2 zenith

Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

Actually N2z is perfectly fine.  Any place is going to require the PLM to increase its MMOD shielding.  Until last week when it was decided to leave Node 3 on N1 port, N2z was the preffered spot for the PLM since it would be close to your visiting vehicles.  The crew wants the PLM to be along the axis of the station for efficiency so N2z or N1n works equally well.

PLM on N1n does not affect any planned/needed views from the cupola.

It will, however, affect Orion's need for a second docking port.
JRF

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #97 on: 09/16/2009 09:51 PM »
however it will obstruct the viewing area for the cupola, while it will not on node 2 zenith

Node 2 zenith is not an option as I understand the situation for a couple of reasons; the primary one of which is its high MMOD risk. N2z is also the backup placement location for both shuttle MPLM and free flight modules such as HTV should a problem develop with the Node 2 nadir port.

Actually N2z is perfectly fine.  Any place is going to require the PLM to increase its MMOD shielding.  Until last week when it was decided to leave Node 3 on N1 port, N2z was the preffered spot for the PLM since it would be close to your visiting vehicles.  The crew wants the PLM to be along the axis of the station for efficiency so N2z or N1n works equally well.

PLM on N1n does not affect any planned/needed views from the cupola.

It will, however, affect Orion's need for a second docking port.

Learned the answer today. PMA-3 (later CDA) will go to N2z.
JRF

Offline bobthemonkey

Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #98 on: 09/16/2009 10:20 PM »
CDA? Is this something new or just a change in name following the installation of ATLAS (or whatever the APAS-LIDS adapter is called now-a-days).

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #99 on: 09/16/2009 10:36 PM »
CDA? Is this something new or just a change in name following the installation of ATLAS (or whatever the APAS-LIDS adapter is called now-a-days).

Common Docking Adapter. Rather than being an APAS-LIDS adapter like ATLAS that fits on top of the existing PMA, CDA would be a CBM-LIDS adapter that replaces the PMA altogether.

But yes, as you say, that's just this week's plan. :)
JRF

Offline bobthemonkey

Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #100 on: 09/16/2009 10:47 PM »
Right. Would this be as a replacement for both PMA2 and PMA3?

Any idea as to LV - I guess it would be too wide to be launched atop Orion. Is this something that could be flight ready by the end of STS or go up in the HTV unpressurised section. (I think this was mentioned in an 8th floor update).

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #101 on: 09/17/2009 12:15 AM »
Right. Would this be as a replacement for both PMA2 and PMA3?

Yes, eventually.

Quote
Any idea as to LV - I guess it would be too wide to be launched atop Orion. Is this something that could be flight ready by the end of STS or go up in the HTV unpressurised section. (I think this was mentioned in an 8th floor update).

The latter.
JRF

Offline Analyst

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #102 on: 09/17/2009 05:58 PM »
Learned the answer today. PMA-3 (later CDA) will go to N2z.

With PMA-3 at Node-2 zenith you lose the backup CBM for visiting vehicles (unless a Node-3 CBM could be used, which I don't know). But you have two PMAs at useable locations at a time when you don't need any PMA (from the end of STS to Orion, 7 years).

Wouldn't it be better to have two CBMs for visiting vehicles (Node 2 nadir and zenith) at a time when such flights will happen (HTV, COTS) and just one PMA (like today) when none is actually needed? Put PMA-3 at Node-3 until needed.

General questions about Node-3 CBMs:

1) Which ones will have the technical equipment to be used (port, starboard and nadir, some else)?

2) Which ones could be used from a clearance perspective for say, an SSRMS mounted MPLM (forward? (truss), zenith? (SGANT), aft? (Russian part))?

3) Could PMA-3 live at Node-3 port, or are there clearance issues with the radiator?

Analyst

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #103 on: 09/17/2009 06:13 PM »
Learned the answer today. PMA-3 (later CDA) will go to N2z.

With PMA-3 at Node-2 zenith you lose the backup CBM for visiting vehicles (unless a Node-3 CBM could be used, which I don't know). But you have two PMAs at useable locations at a time when you don't need any PMA (from the end of STS to Orion, 7 years).

Wouldn't it be better to have two CBMs for visiting vehicles (Node 2 nadir and zenith) at a time when such flights will happen (HTV, COTS) and just one PMA (like today) when none is actually needed? Put PMA-3 at Node-3 until needed.

Duh. I didn't say it would go there *now.*
JRF

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #104 on: 09/17/2009 07:34 PM »
An where will it go now? It must be at Node-3.

Analyst
« Last Edit: 09/17/2009 07:45 PM by Analyst »

Offline MBK004

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #105 on: 09/18/2009 12:00 AM »
Had no idea Z1 had an pressurized vestibule, always heard is completely unpressurized.

I remember this coming up before. It is known as the Z1 Dome, if I recall. At one point, someone posted pics of the dome area here.

Still trying to find interior images. No luck yet.
I've got two images of Sergei Krikalev accessing the pressurized volume of Z1 but I don't remember if they are L2 are not (Chris, please advise)

Offline Hungry4info3

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #106 on: 09/18/2009 12:19 AM »
Z1 has a pressurized volume?  ??? 8 :o

Offline simon-th

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #107 on: 09/18/2009 07:59 AM »
Had no idea Z1 had an pressurized vestibule, always heard is completely unpressurized.

I remember this coming up before. It is known as the Z1 Dome, if I recall. At one point, someone posted pics of the dome area here.

Still trying to find interior images. No luck yet.
I've got two images of Sergei Krikalev accessing the pressurized volume of Z1 but I don't remember if they are L2 are not (Chris, please advise)


Those pics are available on the NASA website.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/118032main_hassman_iss_briefing4_med.jpg

Offline Hungry4info3

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #108 on: 09/18/2009 09:11 AM »
Those pics are available on the NASA website.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/118032main_hassman_iss_briefing4_med.jpg

Huh, thanks. So what is that used for these days? Storage?

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #109 on: 09/19/2009 06:27 AM »
Those pics are available on the NASA website.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/118032main_hassman_iss_briefing4_med.jpg

Huh, thanks. So what is that used for these days? Storage?

The same use as every inch of unused space on ISS - oacked tight with stowage!

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #110 on: 01/08/2010 07:28 PM »
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/01/sts-130-may-postponed-node-3-threatens-swap/

OMG I thought NASA tested everything to a fair-the-well. What happened that they would discover this at the last minute?

(Edit;)
From Bill Harwood, http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html

Quote
NASA managers originally intended to attach Tranquility to Unity's Earth-facing port but later decided to mount it on the left side instead. Connectors needed to circulate ammonia coolant to and from Tranquility were not correctly positioned, or "clocked," for Tranquility to be attached to Unity's left-side port.

As a result, custom hoses and connectors were ordered to compensate for the offset. During a ground test this week, a hose ruptured below the expected threshold. The failure occurred at a pressure of nearly 1,000 pounds per square inch, much higher than normal station pressures of around 300 psi, but engineers are looking into the issue to find out what might be needed to resolve the matter.
« Last Edit: 01/08/2010 07:40 PM by Norm Hartnett »
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #111 on: 01/08/2010 08:17 PM »
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/01/sts-130-may-postponed-node-3-threatens-swap/

I thought NASA tested everything to a fair-the-well. What happened that they would discover this at the last minute?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=19996.msg522994#msg522994

More info on the test issues in L2.
« Last Edit: 01/08/2010 08:17 PM by rdale »

Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #112 on: 01/08/2010 09:10 PM »

OMG I thought NASA tested everything to a fair-the-well. What happened that they would discover this at the last minute?


It failed a test.

Offline Pheogh

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #113 on: 03/16/2010 11:06 PM »
I seem to remember that Node 3 and Cupola were to be moved to the Nadir port of Node 2 is that still happening or did I miss something?

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #114 on: 03/16/2010 11:09 PM »
I seem to remember that Node 3 and Cupola were to be moved to the Nadir port of Node 2 is that still happening or did I miss something?

That was never the plan. Node 3 was originally planned to be berthed to Node 1 nadir. I don't believe there are any plans to relocate it.
JRF

Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #115 on: 03/16/2010 11:15 PM »
Why didn't they put Node 3 at Node 2 forward?
We will be vic-toooooo-ri-ous!!!

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #116 on: 03/16/2010 11:17 PM »
Why didn't they put Node 3 at Node 2 forward?

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.
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Offline Pheogh

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #117 on: 03/16/2010 11:19 PM »
I seem to remember that Node 3 and Cupola were to be moved to the Nadir port of Node 2 is that still happening or did I miss something?

That was never the plan. Node 3 was originally planned to be berthed to Node 1 nadir. I don't believe there are any plans to relocate it.

???

Offline Jim

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #118 on: 03/16/2010 11:23 PM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Offline Pheogh

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #119 on: 03/16/2010 11:30 PM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Is the plan to move Node3 and Cupola to a Nadir position or are they being left where they are, and if so why?


Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #120 on: 03/16/2010 11:47 PM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Is the plan to move Node3 and Cupola to a Nadir position or are they being left where they are, and if so why?



Most likely they will remain.

Why do you want to move it?
JRF

Offline Sparky

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #121 on: 03/17/2010 01:27 AM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Is the plan to move Node3 and Cupola to a Nadir position or are they being left where they are, and if so why?



That was the original plan, but it was changed so as to put Node3 on the port, rather than nadir, of Node1.

I was never exactly clear on why, though.

Offline arkaska

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #122 on: 03/17/2010 09:39 AM »

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.

Don't Node3 have a PDGF?

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #123 on: 03/17/2010 11:09 AM »

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.

Don't Node3 have a PDGF?

Node 3 doesn't have a PDGF on it's actual shell, but it's Zenith CBM is blocked off and a PDGF is located there.
« Last Edit: 03/17/2010 11:56 AM by Space Pete »
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Offline Pheogh

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #124 on: 03/17/2010 06:02 PM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Is the plan to move Node3 and Cupola to a Nadir position or are they being left where they are, and if so why?



Most likely they will remain.

Why do you want to move it?

Wouldn't it have a better vantage point for grappling approaching vehicles destined for Node 2 Nadir. Also it would be along the central long axis of the station.

On the other hand the benefit of where it is now is that it provides a vantage point fwd and aft of ISS.

I was just fishing for documentation because I seem to remember only seeing it positioned at Node 1 Nadir


Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #125 on: 03/17/2010 11:00 PM »
That is Node 1 nadir.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Is the plan to move Node3 and Cupola to a Nadir position or are they being left where they are, and if so why?



Most likely they will remain.

Why do you want to move it?

Wouldn't it have a better vantage point for grappling approaching vehicles destined for Node 2 Nadir.

No, they're about equal.

Quote
Also it would be along the central long axis of the station.

What is the advantage of that? And the Node 3 port location has advantage of keeping the "floor" and "ceiling" of ISS consistent.
JRF

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #126 on: 03/17/2010 11:10 PM »

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.

Don't Node3 have a PDGF?

Node 3 doesn't have a PDGF on it's actual shell, but it's Zenith CBM is blocked off and a PDGF is located there.

OK, to clarify, it's not the first part of the operation that is affected, it's the last part.

With the shuttle docked to PMA-2 on Node 2, the SRMS can't pull payloads out of the bay due to Kibo blocking the elbow. So for station payloads destined for the truss (such as the ELCs), a double-handoff is required: SSRMS on Lab PGDF extracts payload from bay, hands off to SRMS, then the SSRMS translates over to the MBS, the MBS translates to the appropriate worksite, then the SRMS hands the payload off to the SSRMS for installation.

If Node 3 were installed to Node 2 forward, the double handoff would not be required since the SRMS now has adequate clearance from Kibo. The SRMS could extract the payload from the bay and the SSRMS could go directly to the MBS. But the two arms would then be too far apart for the handoff, especially if the payload were destined for the starboard truss.
JRF

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #127 on: 03/18/2010 12:31 AM »

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.

Don't Node3 have a PDGF?

Node 3 doesn't have a PDGF on it's actual shell, but it's Zenith CBM is blocked off and a PDGF is located there.

OK, to clarify, it's not the first part of the operation that is affected, it's the last part.

With the shuttle docked to PMA-2 on Node 2, the SRMS can't pull payloads out of the bay due to Kibo blocking the elbow. So for station payloads destined for the truss (such as the ELCs), a double-handoff is required: SSRMS on Lab PGDF extracts payload from bay, hands off to SRMS, then the SSRMS translates over to the MBS, the MBS translates to the appropriate worksite, then the SRMS hands the payload off to the SSRMS for installation.

If Node 3 were installed to Node 2 forward, the double handoff would not be required since the SRMS now has adequate clearance from Kibo. The SRMS could extract the payload from the bay and the SSRMS could go directly to the MBS. But the two arms would then be too far apart for the handoff, especially if the payload were destined for the starboard truss.

True - but why?  We can do the double handoff just fine, there are only a few more shuttle flights left and it would be very hard to have put Node 3 there.  Not worth it.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #128 on: 03/18/2010 12:49 AM »

Umbilical reach, for one. SSRMS reach (can't pull shuttle payloads out of the bay because it's further away) for another.

Don't Node3 have a PDGF?

Node 3 doesn't have a PDGF on it's actual shell, but it's Zenith CBM is blocked off and a PDGF is located there.

OK, to clarify, it's not the first part of the operation that is affected, it's the last part.

With the shuttle docked to PMA-2 on Node 2, the SRMS can't pull payloads out of the bay due to Kibo blocking the elbow. So for station payloads destined for the truss (such as the ELCs), a double-handoff is required: SSRMS on Lab PGDF extracts payload from bay, hands off to SRMS, then the SSRMS translates over to the MBS, the MBS translates to the appropriate worksite, then the SRMS hands the payload off to the SSRMS for installation.

If Node 3 were installed to Node 2 forward, the double handoff would not be required since the SRMS now has adequate clearance from Kibo. The SRMS could extract the payload from the bay and the SSRMS could go directly to the MBS. But the two arms would then be too far apart for the handoff, especially if the payload were destined for the starboard truss.

True - but why?  We can do the double handoff just fine, there are only a few more shuttle flights left and it would be very hard to have put Node 3 there.  Not worth it.

I'm not sure you read my post carefully enough, in particular the last sentence that starts with "But...". That's a key sentence because it essentially renders the previous sentences in the paragraph moot. (I will admit I could have structured that paragraph better). I *agree* it's not worth it and I'm arguing in favor of *leaving* Node 3 where it is, and in particular, that putting Node 3 on Node 2 forward would have created a bunch of unnecessary headaches.
« Last Edit: 03/18/2010 12:54 AM by Jorge »
JRF

Offline Pheogh

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #129 on: 10/12/2011 03:50 AM »
I know this is a total shot in the dark but if anyone is going to know it would be here:

I am looking for a engineering model of the window mold lines for the Cupola. I understand this information tends to be guarded but I am not looking for the whole model just the mold line of the 7 windows as a 3D model (any format). For what I am doing it will need to be accurate, very accurate.

Anyone that knows where I might be able to obtain this or who to ask it will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

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