Author Topic: Node 3 / Cupola news  (Read 51239 times)

Offline anik

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Node 3 / Cupola news
« on: 03/13/2008 02:33 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bulletin133/bul133_pip.pdf

The quote from page 69:

"Node 3 has been advanced in the Assembly Sequence and is currently scheduled to launch October 2009 (with the Cupola attached) following delivery of Node-3 to NASA in February 2009"

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #1 on: 03/13/2008 02:39 PM »
I would have thought clearance issues would have made that impossible.

Offline stockman

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #2 on: 03/13/2008 02:57 PM »
I could be wrong but I thought that node 3 and cupula were going up on the same flight but that the cupula would be on a pallet (not attached to Node3 for the flight. Once Node 3 gets attached then cupula could be attached to the appropriate port

Speaking of cupula.. here is a current picture of her sitting in the ISS processing facility.

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Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #3 on: 03/13/2008 03:03 PM »
No! Cupola is launched attached to the forward end of Node 3 (no clearance issues) and the relocated to the side afterwards... :)

Offline stockman

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #4 on: 03/13/2008 03:05 PM »
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ShuttleDiscovery - 13/3/2008  12:03 PM

No! Cupola is launched attached to the forward end of Node 3 (no clearance issues) and the relocated to the side afterwards... :)



ahh.. thanks for clarifying.
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Online Chandonn

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #5 on: 03/13/2008 03:14 PM »
Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  11:57 AM

I could be wrong but I thought that node 3 and cupula were going up on the same flight but that the cupula would be on a pallet (not attached to Node3 for the flight. Once Node 3 gets attached then cupula could be attached to the appropriate port

Speaking of cupula.. here is a current picture of her sitting in the ISS processing facility.


In some earlier versions of the launch sequence, the cupola was to be launched on a pallet and later attached to the port CBM of Unity.  That may be the source of the confusion.  It is simpler to attach it to the forward active CBM of Node 3 when it's all launched up together, and then relocate it.

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #6 on: 03/13/2008 03:20 PM »
It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

Offline DwightM

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #7 on: 03/13/2008 03:37 PM »
Quote
anik - 13/3/2008  7:33 AM

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bulletin133/bul133_pip.pdf

The quote from page 69:

"Node 3 has been advanced in the Assembly Sequence and is currently scheduled to launch October 2009 (with the Cupola attached) following delivery of Node-3 to NASA in February 2009"

So this means that STS-130 is now 20A and that 19A and ULF 4 will shift to the right, correct?

Offline stockman

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #8 on: 03/13/2008 03:45 PM »
Quote
catfry - 13/3/2008  12:20 PM

It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

I certainly don't think its frivolous. Can you live without it? probably but there are some uses here.

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.


THere may be other reasons for it but that is what jumps off the list to me immediately.
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Offline Shadow Spork

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #9 on: 03/13/2008 03:54 PM »
I think it's also the final place where the SSRMS workstation will be located... at least the last time I checked.

Offline anik

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #10 on: 03/13/2008 03:57 PM »
Quote
DwightM - 13/3/2008  7:37 PM

So this means that STS-130 is now 20A and that 19A and ULF 4 will shift to the right, correct?

Yes, Dwight. Node 3 with Cupola will be in October 2009 instead of April 2010. :)

Offline Norm Hartnett

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #11 on: 03/13/2008 04:30 PM »
It is interesting that ESA has published this first. I just checked several online Shuttle manifest sites and none of them are showing this.

It is unsurprising that NASA would make this move since the flight history since the return to flight has shown a consistent shuffling to the right. This positions NASA to be able to abort up to the last three flights if necessary to avoid exceeding their self imposed 2010 deadline if the shuffling continues.
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Offline perian

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #12 on: 03/13/2008 04:34 PM »
Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  6:45 PM

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.



4) control of the space station remote manipulator system (robotic workstations will be in Cupola)

Offline catfry

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #13 on: 03/13/2008 04:42 PM »
Quote
stockman - 12/3/2008  6:45 PM

Quote
catfry - 13/3/2008  12:20 PM

It makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I have always been a bit fascinated by the Cupola. Isn't it a bit of a frivolity? Are there any operational uses at all?

I certainly don't think its frivolous. Can you live without it? probably but there are some uses here.

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier
I'll grant you that the larger FOV will make spotting areas of interest much, much easier, and the ability to image earth areas in other directions than close to straight downwards will also be a benefit, but on the other hand you lose detail because you have to pentrate more of the atmosphere.

Quote
2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.
I think this benefit is limited. The external cameras seems to be excellent in tracking whats going on, from what I can see on Nasa tv. The robot arm have its own cameras both on the main and on Dextre so thats also covered. I really think what you get from Cupola in this respect is only slightly better than the cameras, and there is only that one vantage point whereas cameras can monitor from mutiple angles.

Quote
3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.
There is actually a window in Zvezda that is 15-16 inches across, so not as large as the lab window but still nice.
I'll give you that anything that helps the mental state of the astros is a good thing, and the Cupola will make tourism to the station even more attractive!

One thing I'm wondering about is how much of the time the mmod shields in front of the windows will be allowed to be in the "open" position. The windows will be facing to the side, as opposed to downwards, and even towards the velocity vector of the station, so it seems to me they are more at risk of mmod, than the normal windows. This leads me to another question; Why was it decided to point the Cupola this direction?

EDIT: Well.. Ok, I'll give you that the Cupola pobably will get a better overview of the situation, if you can se your actions with the arm from there.
I also trust that as usual some smart people at Nasa have been going over this and wheighed for and against but I still think it is only a marginally useful component.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #14 on: 03/13/2008 05:22 PM »
Quote
perian - 13/3/2008  12:34 PM

Quote
stockman - 13/3/2008  6:45 PM

1) Earth observation made easier - that is one of the primary goals of ISS so big windows make that job easier

2) maintenance visibility - Gives a clear human eye view to certain types of maintenance instead of just relying on Camera views from inside.

3) Human mental health - I would be willing to bet that the most used part of the station (next to the toilet) is the LAB window because it is larger than the Russian Portholes and provides a nice clear view of the Earth below. When you are stuck in a tin can for 6 months or more at a time it is good for the mind to be able to look outside and see the universe. The cupola will give the equivalent of 5 or 6 large LAB windows. I can imagine half the crew in that module during off duty time.



4) control of the space station remote manipulator system (robotic workstations will be in Cupola)

Bingo. The Cupola's prime rationale is improving the safety of SSRMS ops by allowing direct viewing, rather than needing to manipulate quite so many cameras as they use now.
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Offline redgryphon

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #15 on: 03/13/2008 05:39 PM »
Especially when capturing the free flying HTV, I'd guess. The cupola on Node 3 will allow an excellent view as the HTV approaches Node 2 from below and then stationkeeps while the SSRMS grabs it.

Offline erioladastra

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #16 on: 03/13/2008 08:11 PM »
"It is interesting that ESA has published this first. I just checked several online Shuttle manifest sites and none of them are showing this. "

Thats because it is not 100% official.  Very likely but still needs the final approval.

To answer some other questions...  It will now go on the port side of Node 1 and the Cupola will be nadir.

Yes, it provides some great views for rendezvous vehicles and that will be its primary use.

The cupola may be the final place for the cupola RWS (hence the name).  However, there are pros to having them back to back for redundancy and video monitors.  For robotics a window strictly speaking is not required.

Offline erioladastra

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #17 on: 03/13/2008 08:15 PM »
"I think this benefit is limited. The external cameras seems to be excellent in tracking whats going on, from what I can see on Nasa tv. The robot arm have its own cameras both on the main and on Dextre so thats also covered. I really think what you get from Cupola in this respect is only slightly better than the cameras, and there is only that one vantage point whereas cameras can monitor from mutiple angles."

True to a point but there are specific areas like RS nadir (which will become more interesting in the future) and parts of JEM as well as some areas of the truss that analysis shows you get a better view.

"There is actually a window in Zvezda that is 15-16 inches across, so not as large as the lab window but still nice. "

Not very good quality.

"One thing I'm wondering about is how much of the time the mmod shields in front of the windows will be allowed to be in the "open" position. "

Correct but the crews can open and more critically they can have it open for rendezvousing vehicles.

Offline psloss

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Re: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #18 on: 03/13/2008 10:35 PM »
Quote
Chandonn - 13/3/2008  12:14 PM

In some earlier versions of the launch sequence, the cupola was to be launched on a pallet and later attached to the port CBM of Unity.  That may be the source of the confusion.  It is simpler to attach it to the forward active CBM of Node 3 when it's all launched up together, and then relocate it.
I think the 20A mission was/is tight on performance margin; the pallet might have been eliminated to recover some of that...


Offline hanschristian

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RE: Node 3 / Cupola news
« Reply #19 on: 03/15/2008 10:15 AM »
Quote
erioladastra - 13/3/2008  4:11 PM


To answer some other questions...  It will now go on the port side of Node 1 and the Cupola will be nadir.


Node 3 on port CBM of Node 1 and Cupola will be on Node 1 Nadir CBM?

Hmmm... I'm wondering why would they choose this configuration... would it be better to have the configuration depicted in the last CG art? With Node 3 on Node 1 nadir CBM, Cupola on Node 3 forward CBM and PMA 3 on Node 3 nadir CBM? This configuration would make more sense, PMA 3 now has adequate clearance for nadir-docking vehicles like Orion, and with Cupola facing both forward (which could be better for earth observation, as well as a much better view of approaching vehicles like the Shuttle, HTV and Orion) and allows more than adequate view of all US/International partners labs and the whole ITA, which can be more advantageous for SSRMS/SPDM operations as well as EVAs...

Because if the Cupola's going to be in Node 1 Nadir, PMA 3 would go nowhere but any of Node 3's CBMs, which, if they decided to plug it to Node 1 port CBM, PMA 3 would only be good as a spare PMA, in case PMA 2 fails... Otherwise, It would only sit there doing nothing but serving as an extra cabinet...

But then again, its up to the people upstairs to decide...
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