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They'll either need reconfigurable seats, or a compromise between the two orientations.

I think the seats neat to be oriented differently for takeoff vs EDL.   People, especially civilians, can stand a lot more G's in the "eyeballs-in" direction than in the "eyeballs-down" direction.  On take-off, the acceleration is toward the tail, so couches can be aligned like in Apollo or the Shuttle.  But on EDL, the belly-flop mode gets the most deceleration I think, so the couches would be oriented that way.  If both landing-burn and belly-flop stages are greater than 1.5G, then the couches have to move.

Did the Shuttle couches reorient? I feel like we've had this discussion before.
Our own HMXHMX from tSpace days has this solution.
The sector continues to germinate more strongly in many places: D

Nigeria and NASDRA, begin to take advantage of the spatial potential in their agriculture :)

Egypt and China sign important agreement to manufacture the new Egypsat-2 8)

Mexico and AEM begin to put the first stones of their space development centers: D

And they are evaluating new satellites and boosting their space industry: o

Chile has taken a giant step with its new ministry of science and technology ... the Chilean Space Agency a little closer :)

Peru continues to take advantage of its Perusat-1 satellite and boost its academies and scientists  :)

Colombia begins to bet seriously for its space agency and prepares a space program for the coming years  :D

Good interview to its president:

Ecuador is preparing to launch two new satellites from Russia  8)

And little Paraguay is developing its first observation satellite and that it hopes to launch in 2021  :o :D

Great news, more and more countries bet stronger for the true future of Humanity ... space  :D

It seems that Mauricio is little by little developing his space plan ... next year he will launch his first satellite ... and it would be if I am not mistaken the tenth African country  8)

Morocco is preparing to launch its next observation satellite, it seems it will be in November ...

Egypt has almost ready its third observation satellite  :D

And South Africa chooses the name for its new satellite Zacube-2  :o that has been developed largely by its industry

And Myanmar is preparing to have its first observation satellite and is planning to create its space agency  :D

Well, it seems that the domino effect is beginning to be felt by the Arab Emirates in the region and some already want to follow in their footsteps ...

The new space agency of Bahrain talks with Russia to send its first astronaut to space  :o

India continues to expand its facilities in other countries and in this case helping its development  :D

And the Philippines signs a collaboration agreement with Russia: I hope they will soon formalize their space agency;)

And here I have a good report on the space effort of two African powers  :D

And Kenya continues to implement its space agency  :D

And the last important news, Philippines is very close the create her own space agency  :D

Pd: If you ask, if i'm collecting all this info in one day  ::)...the answer is not..I collect all this in other spanish forums i'm participate  :D , but I hope somebody liked...  :)

Blue Origin / Re: Blue Origin General Discussion Thread 2
« Last post by Coastal Ron on Today at 09:57 PM »

I chose my wording carefully. The Shuttle Orbiter was not a rocket, it was the payload, and the SRM's were only refurbish-able, not reusable.

4.)Under your definition of re-usability used for SpaceX, the Shuttle SRBs are re-usable. SpaceX hasn't achieved re-use with no maintanence.

SpaceX is flying the reusable version of the Falcon 9. They are still validating their design and ops, so they are not operating it in a fully reusable mode, but it is the reusable version.

5.)Only the complete system (the SRB, the ET, and the orbiter) have the features of an orbital rocket. Without the orbiter it is a one stage sub-orbital vehicle and has no payload fairing or equivalent feature for holding a satellite.

You spend a lot of time arguing about tiny details that have no bearing on the topic at hand. The Shuttle Transportation System was not a reusable launch system - parts were refurbish-able, and parts were expendable. It's not a model for the future...

Which is why the progress Blue Origin is making is, to a substantial degree, based on how fast Jeff Bezos wants them to go, and right now he is fine with the pace. That he is fine in following behind what SpaceX is doing, with no visible plan to try and catch up to, and overtake SpaceX.

If New Glenn flys and lands before BFR/BFS, they have caught up and most likely overtook SpaceX as far as rockets go. How long does that last in that scenario? Who knows.

New Glenn is planned to be as reusable as Falcon Heavy (i.e. 1st stage reusable, but 2nd stage expendable) but carries less to space. And Falcon Heavy is operational today. So at most New Glenn gets them close to what Falcon Heavy is doing, but BFR/BFS will be a giant leap beyond New Glenn.

As I've said before though, Blue Origin and SpaceX don't really compete against each other, so there is no race between them. Both are building their own transportation systems for their own needs, and as a bonus the commercial and U.S. Government markets can use their capabilities too.
Well, the UAE continues to develop its space industry, and its human capital, with the launch of the student satellite Mysat-1  :D

And Bahrain has launched its space agency  8) , and to be recruiting personnel  :o and they hope to launch their own satellite in 2 years ...

The thing is encouraged in the Middle East ...

Ivory Coast will be the ninth country to have its own satellite ... it has reached an agreement with Airbus, and expects to have it by 2020 8)

South Africa and China sign alliance in space:

And already the great projects of collaboration between African agencies ... at the moment CASI was born:

South Africa and SANSA as an incentive for startups  :D

Interesting agreement between ASAL, the Algerian Space Agency, with British and Spanish partners, including the company Zero 2 Infinity  8)
Argentina bets on $600 million satellite to boost agriculture sector
Scheduled to launch on a SpaceX Falcon rocket from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California on Oct. 6, Argentina’s SAOCOM 1a satellite “is going to boost the high quality precision agriculture Argentina relies on,” President Mauricio Macri told farmers and industry representatives last week.
Elon tweeted the attached revised Mars Base Alpha render and then had this exchange with Chris:

Realistically, when could that view turn from a render into a real photograph?

"I need a ray of hope about the future" - (c) Gaius Baltar, former President of the Twelve Colonies.

Probably 2028 for a base to be built
Good step for Malaysia, the Philippines and Bhutan: D

And continuing with Philippines, more info about satellite control center  :D

Hopefully everything goes well, with the deployment of Maya-1 and soon with the release of Diwata-2  8)

Important news for Pakistan was the launch of Long March 2C, where two new satellites were going for this country ...

The first PRSS-1 an Earth observation satellite developed by China and the second the PakTES-1A developed by indigenous technology by the Suparco...

Other little step by Pakistan  :D

Egypt, which is a space power in the interior of Africa, and which has had its NARSS space center for many years, is preparing for a big step  :D

Since January the president has approved the Egyptian Space Agency   8)  and they are also building the first satellite research center that they hope to have ready in 2019  :o and build their first satellite completely with indigenous technology by 2020  ;)

In addition, they hope to launch their own launcher, to launch their own satellites  :D  8)

the agency aims to develop and transfer space science and technology into Egypt to build satellites and launch them from Egyptian territories.

2 options:
- it is not the satellite ("Zvesda")
- engine does not work.

A non-functioning engine might explain the very small manoeuvre that I mentioned a few messages ago.

Would seem the most logical answer to me.

Or a decoy?
Red Gold 1.1 – Foundry & PGMs

...finding nickel-iron ready to just melt and use should not be hard...

...gradually, things like sheet and bar stock, glass, bricks, and various chemicals will be produced... The sheet stock can be used to make storage tanks..., the bar stock to make solar cell frames, etc. It's a lever up process. Things will have a weird mix. (crude storage tanks with sophisticated imported pumps and control electronics, etc) Which will be awesomely steampunk because steampunk is all about weird mixes.


Red Gold 1.0 proposed an induction smelter to extract base and precious metals from Type IVA meteoritic ore.  Max temperature was 1400 C, so the bulk of the iron-nickel foil-body did not melt.  After smelting that body had a simplified Fe/Ni/Co composition, plus PGMs.

Two Challenges:  Sheet Metal & PGMs

How might that heated body be transformed into something useful:  “sheet and bar stock”, for example.

And what of those remaining PGMs?  Their combined mass is much greater than that of the extracted gold.  How to separate and purify them?


Kovar was developed as a corrosion-resistant alloy that could be joined with borosilicate glass.  Kovar has a nonlinear thermal expansion curve matching that of borosilicate glass.  This keeps metal/glass joints strong across a wide temperature range. 

Also Kovar has interesting composition, principally Fe/Ni/Co – coincidentally the main constituents of the glowing lump we’ve been ejecting from the Red Gold smelter.

Kovar’s composition, resistance to corrosion, and its low, glass-matched thermal expansion make it a candidate alloy for production at a Red Gold foundry.

One potential early application:  expanding the Red Gold facility.  Red Gold could scale more easily with ISRU fabrication of large, simple components – e.g., additional open-air reactor vessels, aka “crude storage tanks with sophisticated imported pumps and control electronics”.  On a winter morning those vessels might experience -140 C outside and +100 C inside, concurrently.  Kovar would manage that temperature difference well.

Reactor corrosion would be a concern.  While Kovar is generally suitable for saltwater tanks, and Red Gold’s low reaction temperatures and anoxic atmosphere minimize corrosion, sulfur is a real problem.  Sulfides, such as the H2S produced in refining method (I.), might call for a different reactor alloy, or a protective lining.  Kane & Cayard 1998.  Also I imagine electrolytic reactors would also need some protective lining, perhaps an ISRU plastic.

But assuming Kovar could serve, how might it be produced?  We might extend the smelting process.


After extracting precious metals, increase temperature to obtain Kovar elements.  Their respective elemental melting points are:

- Ni:  1455 C

- Co:  1495 C

- Fe:  1538 C

These temperatures represent the points of maximum elemental concentration in the melt.  It’s understood that some metals are alloyed, and each alloy inclusion will have some particular melting point, but these are the temperatures to target for peak concentration, as a first effort. 

PGMs are also alloyed.  Notably, little if any Fe-PGM alloy melts below 1510 C.  For comparison:

- Fe-Ni inclusions begin melting at 1440 C,

- Fe-Co inclusions begin melting at 1476 C, and

- a characteristic bulk meteoritic Ni 8 wt % alloy melts ~ 1505 C. 

Therefore you could preserve most PGMs and most bulk Fe-Ni alloy as solids, while extracting metals for Kovar, by limiting temperature to the elemental Co melting point of 1495 C. 

If the bulk meteoritic Fe-Ni alloy had unusually high nickel content, bulk melting point would be lower: e.g. bulk Ni 10% wt % ~ 1500 C.  This might risk bulk melt (and loss of PGMs).  All tbd experimentally, but we might just say that an ore body with comparatively low Ni concentration would be preferable for this proposed smelting step.

That step being done, some minor Kovar Pd melt impurity might occur if any Fe-Pd alloy had > 2 wt % Pd content.  But if alloys are < 2 wt %, or if minor Pd Kovar impurity is acceptable, the Kovar melt could skip refining.  The melt could be powdered and sintered as-is.  Powder is a useful form because it can be obtained directly from the 1495 C melt via centrifugal atomizer as in Potts 2017 and then sintered at 1200 C to form plates etc. as in Görkem 2017.  (Sintered product now provides the system’s energy-efficient heat-exchange.)

The powder must be apportioned to give the Kovar alloy composition:  Fe/Ni/Co 54/29/17.  Conceivably this might be done by capturing each melt powder separately at each elemental peak concentration temperature.  Fe-Co would be the base powder, and Fe-Ni powder would be added to give the needed composition.  As Co is the least abundant element, Kovar production would be cobalt-limited, and further Co concentration steps may be needed.  Also additional Ni might be obtained from Red Gold refining method (I.).


After Kovar metals are extracted, a heated iron body remains in the smelter, a mass of soft foil enriched in PGMs.  The PGMs may be extracted with the Shor Simplicity electrolytic process, much as before.

To do that, you might press and cut the massed foils into porous electrolytic plates, then lower the plates into the Shor electrolytic reactor.  GC salt electrolysis and ammonia solution together dissolve the PGMs.  Iron does not dissolve because reactor pH is, I think, never extremely low. 

The refined iron plates are removed and stored for use as-is, or else for reuse in Kovar.

Hydrazine precipitates the PGMs in sequence.


Red Gold 1.1

Appending Kovar and PGM steps to the previous Red Gold 1.0 sequence:

Kovar Sequence

The Kovar sequence has some theoretical components, but just for discussion, here are the appended Kovar steps:


(11.1)  Microwave as in (4.) and then induction-heat as in (5.), to ~ 1455 C, to melt and extract elemental Ni and Fe-Ni alloy. 

(11.2)  Store Ni-rich powder, via centrifugal atomizer of Potts 2017.

(11.3)  Microwave as in (4.) and then induction-heat as in (5.), to ~ 1495 C, to melt and extract elemental Co and Fe-Co alloy.

(11.4)  Store Co-rich powder.

(11.5)  Apportion powders of (11.2) and (11.4), plus any supplemental Fe, Ni and Co, for Kovar composition:  Fe/Ni/Co 54/29/17.
(11.6)  Sinter Kovar powder into foundry products at 1200 C. Görkem 2017.

(12.1)  (optional)  For energy-efficiency, store hot foundry products of (11.6) temporarily between the smelter and external insulation, in some heat-exchange configuration.

PGM Sequence

And here are the additional PGM steps:


(28.)  After smelter step (11.3) remove the remaining massed foils, and press and cut the foils into porous electrolysis plates.

(29.)  Apply the Red Gold electrolytic steps (19.) to (22.) to the Fe-PGM plates.  PGMs dissolve, but the iron does not dissolve because reactor pH is never extremely low. 

(30.)  Remove the refined iron plates and store for use as-is, or else for reuse in Kovar production.

(31.)  Recover PGMs:  Add hydrazine to wastewater to precipitate PGMs as in step (26.).



Depending on PGM yield and jewelry use, and given the somewhat artificial working assumptions, these additional PGMs could contribute as much as $7 billion to annual Red Gold revenue, raising total revenue toward $8 billion.

Moreover, some asteroids have higher PGM concentrations than the Type IVA working assumption.  For example, Type IIIA PGM concentration can be 3x higher.  (Coincidentally, the highest PGM concentrations correspond with lowest Ni concentrations, < 8 wt %, and this eases the Kovar cobalt separation step (11.3).)  Hoashi 1990.

Were the Red Gold facility to work a rich Type IIIA debris field, annual revenue could readily exceed $10 billion, making Red Gold the #1 precious-metal firm system-wide, in terms of revenue - and using only the initial, small-scale systems, which were envisioned with sizing for daily production of a 10-cm gold ingot.


Görkem, K. (2017). Characterization of Kovar Material Produced by Powder Metallurgy.

Hoashi, M. (1990). The platinum group metals in iron meteorites: thesis presented in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Chemistry, Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand (Doctoral dissertation, Massey University).

Kane, R. D., & Cayard, M. S. (1998). Roles of H2S in the behavior of engineering alloys: a review of literature and experience. CORROSION 98.

Potts, C. W. (2017). Development of a Centrifugal Atomizer (Doctoral dissertation, California State University, Sacramento).
Thailand selects Airbus for new terrestrial observation satellite;)

They also hope to develop a 100 kg satellite with indigenous technology: D

It seems that Colombia is developing a family of sounding rockets, and with great ambitions ..


Zimbabwe has created a Space Agency  :D

Rwanda signs agreement with Japan to manufacture and launch its first cubesat ...

Côte d'Ivoire signs agreement with Airbus to develop its aerospace industry  :)

Mauritius asks for help from India to create a space center: o

Oman prepares to launch two satellites in 2019;)

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