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General Discussion => Historical Spaceflight => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:30 AM

Title: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:30 AM
Amazing find by our writer Sergi, video courtesy of Energia.

The one and only flight (unmanned) of the Russian Space Shuttle Buran (Snowstorm).

CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO DOWNLOAD (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/_docs/Buran1.wmv)

-----

EDIT:

Later, four unseen videos were recovered by Russian sources, converted from tape to digital format and uploaded in L2's Buran section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags;tagid=1173
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:30 AM
Screenshots:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:33 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:34 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:35 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:36 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:37 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:38 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:39 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:39 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:40 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/18/2005 03:40 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SimonShuttle on 10/18/2005 10:16 AM
Couple of things of note. This was an Orbiter that flew herself from launch to landing, even the US Orbiters need a helping hand on landing, so in some ways this was a cleverer Shuttle?

The landing seemed very controlled, slower and softer?

Less people in mission control?

Launch seemed a lot more powerful, longer SRB trail?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JamesSpaceFlight on 10/18/2005 02:35 PM
Quote
SimonShuttle - 18/10/2005  5:16 AM

Couple of things of note. This was an Orbiter that flew herself from launch to landing, even the US Orbiters need a helping hand on landing, so in some ways this was a cleverer Shuttle?

The landing seemed very controlled, slower and softer?

Less people in mission control?

Launch seemed a lot more powerful, longer SRB trail?

The US Orbiters have more flight experience, that counts for a lot more.

Slower and softer as no SSMEs on a Burn, just two oversized OMS Pods, and no cargo. A lot less heavy.

Longer flume as it was a lot more coming out the bottom end (SRBs - but not solids) - the ET powered those as we as some more engines on the bottom of the tank I believe.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/18/2005 02:52 PM
Wonder if there was any issues with foam loss?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Terry Rocket on 10/18/2005 02:58 PM
Quote
Avron - 18/10/2005  9:52 AM

Wonder if there was any issues with foam loss?

They painted theirs and used Freon I believe I read somewhere.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 10/18/2005 03:16 PM
The 'strap on' boosters were liquid propellant (LOX/kerosene).

Lots of info and history of the Energia booster here:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/energia.htm

More pics of the Energia and Energia/Buran here:

Energia pictures

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Do Shuttles Dream on 10/18/2005 09:34 PM
I didn't know there was another Shuttle. What happened to her?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 10/19/2005 12:48 AM
Dunno what happened to the flight model. Several accounts have had it either sitting outside at the space center slowly decaying from exposure to the elements, or gutted and sitting collecting dust in some hangar.

There's a pretty complete history of the Russian Buran program here:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 12:52 AM
There were reports she was destroyed when her hanger roof collapsed. A model is in Gorky Park and another is with a rich Middle East guy, I think.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Do Shuttles Dream on 10/19/2005 03:31 AM
That is terrible. Don't the Russians know how to look after them properly :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/19/2005 03:36 AM
Quote
Flightstar - 18/10/2005  8:52 PM

There were reports she was destroyed when her hanger roof collapsed. A model is in Gorky Park and another is with a rich Middle East guy, I think.

There where a couple of them, like four if I recall, and yes one did hit by a hanger..
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tahii on 10/19/2005 04:13 AM
There are some early testing models sitting out in some wastelands too. I remember seeing pictures of them online, some tourists found them, and managed to get inside and take pictures (they had been gutted inside, and abandoned)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 04:19 AM
Pretty sure it was Buran and not her younger sister which was lost in the hanger collapse. I didn't know too much about some other test models. Any images?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Do Shuttles Dream on 10/19/2005 04:23 AM
Thank you for the information and yes I would love to see some other images if possible.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 10/19/2005 04:28 AM
Here is a comparision between the US and Russian Shuttle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 10/19/2005 04:29 AM
Here is an image of Buran as a baby :) Amusing to see the Bison Bomber managing to lift Buran here!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 10/19/2005 04:31 AM
I am not sure where this image is taken from.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SRBseparama on 10/19/2005 04:35 AM
A Muslim Orbiter?? ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 04:49 AM
This I believe is the damage that was done. I see this was an ET and strap on boosters, you don't see Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tahii on 10/19/2005 06:12 AM
Apparently it is in the Persian Gulf. It is an atmospheric testing Buran 2 - guessing its the one that had the turbofan engines attached.

From http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/2004/09/23/shuttle__russen__wueste/russen__shuttle__wueste__gelandet.html

Translation from Babelfish

Russian spaceship in that
Arab desert landed
Of DITTMAR JURKO
   
   
Russisches Spaceshuttle Buran
Russian shuttle was considered as missed and in the Arab desert was now found for many years
Moscow - it was the most engaged project of Russian space travel with the code name "Buran"
(Schneegestoeber): The first flight in the universe with a Russian space shuttle!


The flight succeeded, since experts puzzle, where the four shuttle prototypes remained. Now picture readers found to one of the Russian orbital gliders in the Arab desert!


Volker hard man (54) from foam castle, Chris G. Maier (32) from Duesseldorf and Kai Niedermeier (39) from Solingen met the Kronprinzen sheikh Salman in the island state Bahrain are Hamad aluminium-Khalifa (34).

He told them the hiding place: "we drove with a jeep into border proximity to Saudi Arabia. There that stood for shuttles - taken off and leaves."
   
With the glider it acts around the "Buran 002", of four airworthy spaceships of this series: 36.37 meters long and 16.37 meters highly. It main header 25 times starting from 1993 was adjusted the space project. A Saudi bought that to shuttles, forgot it then in the desert.

And the other spaceships? One were dismantled destroyed, one, the parent ship are located today in the Muscovite fermenting AI park. One of the German discoverers wants to buy the "Buran 002" now for 300,000 dollar, so that on world tour go: "the sheikh agreed."




Images below are of Buran external, and internal.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 10/19/2005 11:28 AM
It's so very sad to see how we treated those ships, although that was a throw back to the Soviet Union. We simply ran out of cash. The same thing can be seen in some of our major naval ports.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/19/2005 02:20 PM
Photo from the Russian "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine

Technological model 4MT (above) and the second orbital spacecraft 2K (below) are stored in the assembly-refueling building on the area 112A of the Baikonur cosmodrome
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 02:23 PM
Great image Anik. Are they still there, is this a recent photo?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/19/2005 02:31 PM
Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  6:23 PM

Are they still there?

Yes... They will stay there for ever... :(

Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  6:23 PM

Is this a recent photo?

2004 year
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SimonShuttle on 10/19/2005 02:39 PM
Wow, great find Anik! Two near complete Orbiters (lacking paint of course).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/19/2005 02:52 PM
Quote
SimonShuttle - 19/10/2005  6:39 PM

lacking paint of course

They dusty :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: FransonUK on 10/19/2005 03:06 PM
Quote
anik - 19/10/2005  9:52 AM

Quote
SimonShuttle - 19/10/2005  6:39 PM

lacking paint of course

They dusty :(

:( Someone should give them both a good home. I'm sure you'd get a good price for them. Makes me sad to see them disrespected like this :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 03:15 PM
Quote
anik - 19/10/2005  9:31 AM

Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  6:23 PM

Are they still there?

Yes... They will stay there for ever... :(

Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  6:23 PM

Is this a recent photo?

2004 year

Thank you, I had no idea these two still exsisted.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/19/2005 03:16 PM
Quote
FransonUK - 19/10/2005  7:06 PM

I'm sure you'd get a good price for them

They are belonged to Kazakhstan... :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/19/2005 07:27 PM
All photos from Russian Vadim Lukashevich's Buran website ( http://www.buran.ru )

 :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy L on 10/19/2005 08:11 PM
Wow, how terrible! Thank you so much Ani, I really appreciate your posts.

What caused the roof to collapse?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/19/2005 08:12 PM
Was she being processed for another launch?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 10/19/2005 10:42 PM
Quote
Andy L - 19/10/2005  3:11 PM

Wow, how terrible! Thank you so much Ani, I really appreciate your posts.

What caused the roof to collapse?

I think it was too much snow. The roof had weakened enough over the years (not enough money for maintenance) it couldn't support the snow weight from a major winter storm, and gave way.
A tragic loss.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/20/2005 04:37 AM
Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  4:12 PM

Was she being processed for another launch?


It was the end of the cold war, there was no more money, if I recall, in fact its via sure determination of our Russian friends that it got launched at all..
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Terry Rocket on 10/20/2005 03:01 PM
Quote
Flightstar - 19/10/2005  3:12 PM

Was she being processed for another launch?

Sure look like it! I wonder if THIS was the reason the program never made it to a second launch!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/20/2005 03:28 PM
Quote
Andy L - 20/10/2005  12:11 AM

What caused the roof to collapse?

Significant increase (in 1.5 times) of actual loading on the roof in comparison with allowable norm, because:

1. Deviations from the project, admitted at the building construction

2. Significant humidifying of the roof

3. Essential decrease of durability of ferro-concrete plates of the roof

Quote
Flightstar - 20/10/2005  12:12 AM

Was she being processed for another launch?

This Orbiter (1K) did not prepare for another launch... But the second Orbiter (2K) prepared to manned spaceflight in 1993...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/20/2005 03:59 PM
All photos from Russian "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine website
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/20/2005 09:39 PM
My goodness, they are simply letting her rust? :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/21/2005 03:18 AM
Thank you so much Anik. You are a very valuable poster on this forum.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/21/2005 04:15 AM
Quote
Flightstar - 20/10/2005  11:18 PM

Thank you so much Anik. You are a very valuable poster on this forum.

Second that...thanks Anik..

(you sure have a lot of answers... any stock market tips...;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/21/2005 07:07 AM
I'll third that...and he's been here from about the start!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/21/2005 02:24 PM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 21/10/2005  1:39 AM

My goodness, they are simply letting her rust? :(

Chris, it is one of full-size spacecraft models, which now belongs to Kazakhstan... :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/21/2005 06:09 PM
I am just so amazed, how something that in the west looks complex, but looks simpler, no make that KISS in Russian... Look forward to the next Russian develpment that takes flight..
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/21/2005 06:21 PM
Anik...

Whats the item on the tank ahead of the orbiter?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/21/2005 07:27 PM
Quote
Avron - 21/10/2005  10:21 PM

Whats the item on the tank ahead of the orbiter?

Unfortunately, I do not know...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/21/2005 09:22 PM
Anik, how many Buran's are there left?

I've never seen so many. Two in the hanger covered in dust. One rusting outside, one on the stack above, one in Gorky Park, one the desert? Six?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 10/22/2005 12:27 AM
IIRC, I think only one (the one mounted in the hangar pic) is a 'flyable' ship. The others are all testbeds and boilerplate models.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Guy on 10/22/2005 01:14 AM
Just to clarify everything that has been said (it's not too clear): the one that was destroyed in the roof collapse was the one and only that made the flight into space. It is unfortunate now because all three of the world first reusable spacecraft (not counting Gem 2) are destroyed now.

The ones still surviving and collecting dust are atmospheric test articles, and (two I think) that were intended to be flown in space but never got that far when the program was terminated.

You can buy the heat tiles meant for and used on the Burans today, they appear in auctions and ebay all the time.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Guy on 10/22/2005 01:16 AM
And don't forget the fact that Buran had turbo engines to allow it to 'go around again' unlike the Shuttle when it returned. That's one thing that would make it 'softer and smoother' thought I don't think they used those on the test flight.

Also notice that Buran used drag chutes long before the Shuttle did.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tahii on 10/22/2005 05:34 AM
I thought those turbofan engines were only on the atmospheric test model, so that it could launch without having to be attached to an Antonov? Not for the actual space-faring Burans?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Guy on 10/22/2005 05:40 AM
Hmm, I thought it was for the space article too but I think you're right. I didn't know that. I don't see the turbos on the space vehicle.

Edit: and after looking around, I see that my thought came from rumors and discussions on some other sites. Some people thought (including me apparently!) that they were putting the engines on the space vehicle too. But the discussions are refuted on the real sites, like www.k26.com/buran
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/22/2005 09:07 AM
Quote
Avron - 21/10/2005  10:21 PM

Anik...

Whats the item on the tank ahead of the orbiter?

Avron,

This item is on the tank – look at the photo “Before launch.jpg”…

This item is removed from the tank – look at the photo “During launch.jpg”…

Also look at the photo “Before launch - 2.jpg”… Cables are stretching to this item (maybe power supplies?)...

P.S.: All these photos from Russian Vadim Lukashevich's Buran website ( http://www.buran.ru )
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/22/2005 11:34 AM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/10/2005  1:22 AM

Anik, how many Buran's are there left?

Chris,

There were made five orbital spacecrafts and eight full-size models for the “Energiya-Buran” program in the Soviet Union…

> Five orbital spacecrafts:

1K made spaceflight (look at the photo “1K.jpg”) and was destroyed because of the building roof collapse on the Baikonur

2K is stored in the building on the Baikonur (look at the photo “2K.jpg”)

3K is in Moscow (look at the photo “3K.jpg”)

4K is disassembled (look at the photo “4K.jpg”)

5K is unfinished and then destroyed

> Eight full-size models:

1M is in the Gor’ky park and is transformed into an attraction "The Buran: the space travel"

2M was used for atmospheric testings (look at the photo “2M - 1.jpg”) and is in Bahrein (look at Tahii’s photo “2M - 2.jpg”). By the way, Ben, turbojets were used only on this model…

3M is at RSC Energiya (look at the photo “3M.jpg”)

4MT is on the Baikonur (look at the photo “4MT.jpg”)

5M is at TsAGI (look at the photo “5M.jpg”)

6M is at NIIhimmash in Moscow region (look at the photo “6M.jpg”)

7M is stored in the building on the Baikonur (look at the photo “7M.jpg”)

8M is at Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center

P.S.: All these information and photos from Russian Vadim Lukashevich's Buran website ( http://www.buran.ru )
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/22/2005 11:42 AM
Quote
anik - 22/10/2005  12:34 PM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/10/2005  1:22 AM

Anik, how many Buran's are there left?

Chris,

There were made five orbital spacecrafts and eight full-size models for the “Energiya-Buran” program in the Soviet Union…

> Five orbital spacecrafts:

1K made spaceflight (look at the photo “1K.jpg”) and was destroyed because of the building roof collapse on the Baikonur

2K is stored in the building on the Baikonur (look at the photo “2K.jpg”)

3K is in Moscow (look at the photo “3K.jpg”)

4K is disassembled (look at the photo “4K.jpg”)

5K is unfinished and then destroyed

> Eight full-size models:

1M is in the Gor’ky park and is transformed into an attraction "The Buran: the space travel"

2M was used for atmospheric testings (look at the photo “2M - 1.jpg”) and is in Bahrein (look at Tahii’s photo “2M - 2.jpg”). By the way, Ben, turbojets were used only on this model…

3M is at RSC Energiya (look at the photo “3M.jpg”)

4MT is on the Baikonur (look at the photo “4MT.jpg”)

5M is at TsAGI (look at the photo “5M.jpg”)

6M is at NIIhimmash in Moscow region (look at the photo “6M.jpg”)

7M is stored in the building on the Baikonur (look at the photo “7M.jpg”)

8M is at Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center

P.S.: All these information and photos from Russian Vadim Lukashevich's Buran website ( http://www.buran.ru )

Wow, thanks! I had no idea. Thank you Anik and thank you Vadim!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/22/2005 12:06 PM
By the way, Buran (3M) and Kliper is at RSC Energiya (photo from Novosti kosmonavtiki)...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tahii on 10/22/2005 11:15 PM
Wow! From other photos I had seen of Kliper, it didn't look as big as that! (I know its closer to the camera than the Buran, but hell, its still very big)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: gyro2020 on 10/23/2005 03:49 AM
Great images, but also very sad to see the state they are in.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 10/24/2005 03:39 AM
Quote
anik - 22/10/2005  5:07 AM

Quote
Avron - 21/10/2005  10:21 PM

Anik...

Whats the item on the tank ahead of the orbiter?

Avron,

This item is on the tank – look at the photo “Before launch.jpg”…

This item is removed from the tank – look at the photo “During launch.jpg”…

Also look at the photo “Before launch - 2.jpg”… Cables are stretching to this item (maybe power supplies?)...
Quote

Thank-you sir...


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy L on 10/31/2005 10:40 PM
It really saddens me to see one of the Soviet Orbiters beheaded and covered in snow. That better not be the fate of NASA's three Orbiters!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 10/31/2005 10:49 PM
Quote
Andy L - 31/10/2005  5:40 PM

It really saddens me to see one of the Soviet Orbiters beheaded and covered in snow. That better not be the fate of NASA's three Orbiters!

You can be totally sure that our three will have a long and happy retirement and maintained in their prime.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/01/2005 12:30 PM
Yes, and they should also stay in the hands of people that know how to care for them.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: t walker on 11/01/2005 09:00 PM
A little clarification to add to the brilliant post from the guy with all the 1K 2K etc pictures:

first series spaceworthies:

1K aka 1.01 aka Buran (Destroyed in hanger collapse)
2K aka 1.02 aka Ptichka (owned by Kazahkstan with lots of work potentially flyable but dont get hopes up)

second series spaceworthies:

3K aka 2.01 aka Baikal* (40% finished, in German Aviation museum) *= not definate about name, big argument over this in the past due to Baikal april fools day joke.
4K aka 2.02 no name (Not finished, since dismantled, tiles sold on ebay)
5K aka 2.03 no name (broken up what was built 1995)

test articles

Gorky park Buran often muddled with real thing.
Number of static testers, simulators and aerodynamic testers plus an Enterprise equivilant.

Recognition

If in space or launching, its Buran.
If has red frame on roof and looks finished, its Ptichka.
If its renovated and in an urban enviroment, its the Gorky Park buran.
If it has more black tiles extending around the nose, its a test article that was fitted with engines.
If its sitting in a field rusting, its not a spaceworthy example.
If its half finished, its Baikal.

This may seem simple but for me it really helps in identifying them.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 11/02/2005 04:12 AM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/11/2005  8:30 AM

Yes, and they should also stay in the hands of people that know how to care for them.

I have space in my back yard..:)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 11/02/2005 05:15 PM
Tom,

Only "Buran" name for the first spacecraft (1K) was official... The second spacecraft (2K) had unofficial "Burya" (not "Ptichka") name... The others spacecrafts had no names in general...

By the way, many thanks for the very good explanation! :)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: t walker on 11/02/2005 05:28 PM
Quote
Avron - 2/11/2005  5:12 AM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/11/2005  8:30 AM

Yes, and they should also stay in the hands of people that know how to care for them.

I have space in my back yard..:)

lol wouldnt we all love that... have a soviet shuttle complete with energia launcher sitting in our gardens...  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: FransonUK on 11/02/2005 06:12 PM
I think the neighbours might complain ;)

I know Buran was "Snowstorm" -

But what was Ptichka and Baikal called, translated?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: t walker on 11/02/2005 06:28 PM
ptichka= little bird, baikal is a lake in the as was USSR.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 11/02/2005 06:53 PM
"Burya" = "Storm"
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/03/2005 05:13 PM
Hobby Link Japan has some 1/700 kits:
http://www.hlj.com/product/TAK23666

From:
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36

Flying model kit:
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31081

Misc: http://www.k26.com/buran

If only the US had built Energia.

See Page 3 here:
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=517752873f4a1bed&cat=c08dd24cec417021

A new shuttle?
"Medvedchikov even suggested that at some future point, if required, the Russians could restart their "Buran" shuttle program. With an external appearance amazingly similar to the U.S. shuttle, Buran made one successful orbital flight without a crew in late 1988. The program then collapsed during the severe budget crunch that accompanied the transition from the Soviet Union to Russia."

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/03/2005 05:20 PM
More Models on Buran:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buran-modeling/?yguid=83251329

Enjoy
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GioFX on 11/05/2005 11:43 PM
hey anik, are there any hopes to see some of the remaing orbiter being cared of? Does RSC Energia have any plans about the Energia LV?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Dana on 11/08/2005 07:34 AM
Quote
Andy L - 31/10/2005  3:40 PM

It really saddens me to see one of the Soviet Orbiters beheaded and covered in snow. That better not be the fate of NASA's three Orbiters!

My guess is you will see one Orbiter at the Smithsonian, one at the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, and the third displayed at either JSC or KSC. Barring that, the Seattle Museum of Flight (which gets my vote because that's closest to where I live:)).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/10/2005 07:22 PM
Not if they keep clogging the Smithsonian with Rutan's contraptions.
I don't want to see any of that.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/23/2005 05:49 PM
Here is a nice Buran-like craft some of you may remember from days of old:

http://starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32645&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mommydawn2000/album?.dir=/318f

Variant:
http://starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32889

I think it is available for sale: mbradley3@cfl.rr.com
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: NASA_LaRC_SP on 11/30/2005 02:39 AM
Anyone know of available schematics for the Buran? I want to double check something.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 11/30/2005 08:53 AM
Quote
NASA_Langley_spammer - 30/11/2005  6:39 AM

Anyone know of available schematics for the Buran?

http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya5.htm and http://www.buran.ru/htm/techno.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/02/2005 03:27 PM
Good links.

Blueprints: http://models.lemut.net/drawings/Buran-Energia/?

Side view: http://www.marscenter.it/eng/veicolinavetteburan.htm


Energiya Buran Toys:
http://www.hlj.com/product/TAK23666

Here is the flying model: http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery10/dt_buran.htm

This websites host was working on an Ener-Buran stack as well--look at his nice wooden Saturn V:
http://pages.infinit.net/animek/Process/Process.htm


Model kits:
http://www.squadron.com/SearchResults.asp?ScaleList=288&TypeList=everything&ManuList=everything&Key=&Submit=Go

Many more links here: http://starshipmodeler.net/cgi-bin/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/02/2005 10:27 PM
Yet more links:
 
Nice Models
http://www.cardmodels.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2918&highlight=Buran
http://www.cardmodels.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2977&highlight=Buran

I wonder if it would go with this:
http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery10/dt_buran.htm

HLLV
http://www.lhvcc.com/egiftshop/cevton02/heavylifter_4110005.jpg
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/07/2005 07:40 PM
Other links at www.k26.com/buran
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ben E on 12/08/2005 03:44 PM
Does anyone have any links to illustrations of the inside of Buran (middeck and flight deck interior photos, pictures of the payload bay through aft flight deck windows, etc)?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 12/08/2005 05:17 PM
Nice seat.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 12/08/2005 05:21 PM
More at:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/08/2005 08:07 PM
Quote
rsp1202 - 8/12/2005  12:21 PM

More at:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm

And its ride:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/energia.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/lvfam/energia.htm

Look under the "E" section of the alphabet to look at the proposed Energiya payloads!

A good comsat design to lessen the crowding of the Clarke Belt:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/globis.htm

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 12/08/2005 09:13 PM
Quote
rsp1202 - 8/12/2005  12:17 PM

Nice seat.

And looks like it wasn't using more than two computers?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 12/08/2005 11:05 PM
A couple of CRT displays that look more like Etch-A-Sketches and a slew of analog flight instrumentation. Long before glass cockpits. But it worked.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: STS Tony on 12/09/2005 02:23 AM
She does look nice inside, not as much as the U.S Orbiters, but this one can fly without a crew which really made her special.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Avron on 12/09/2005 04:47 AM
Quote
STS Tony - 8/12/2005  10:23 PM

She does look nice inside, not as much as the U.S Orbiters, but this one can fly without a crew which really made her special.

cannot say its not more simple looking, easier for maintenance, training and a whole lot that cannot go bad.. as its not there in the first place... KISS..
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ben E on 12/09/2005 08:58 AM
Thanks.

Any pictures of her middeck, aft flight deck, payload bay through aft-deck windows etc?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 12/09/2005 01:27 PM
http://www.nachohat.org/p/sydney_oct2001/space_shuttle/

http://www.angelfire.com/space/satimage2/travel.htm

http://www.airleague.com.au/features/buran.html


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 12/12/2005 04:53 PM
You have to say that she was superior.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 12/13/2005 06:10 PM
Not only that but if we had use this design we wouldn't of had the two problems that have caused disasters on our fleet.

I wonder if post Soviet Union that the Buran's were looked at by NASA?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/15/2005 10:14 PM
The scuttlebutt was that the State Dept. had actually asked Boeing to look at Energiya--but they went just to say they did. The Energiya' core block's RD-0120 LOX/LH2 engines used a channel wall design that was far simpler. It was to have been tested at MSFC IIRC but some political BS occured.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: British NASA on 12/27/2005 06:17 PM
Anyone noticed how Enterprise has a slightly different look to her when looking at the cockpit than the other Orbiters. And that the Buran looks like Enterprise. Anything in it that the US plans were adopted by the Soviets for the Buran?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/29/2005 07:09 PM
Buran was a much more unique design. Buran was only one of may payloads for Glushko's Energiya, which hw worked on for many years with steady funds--up until the Afghan war and the CIS era.

It is sad that Glushko has been largely ignored by the world.
I thought more of him than Korolev.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Flightstar on 12/29/2005 07:54 PM
Energiya has my respect. I hope there's potential intergration somehow in the future. That's SHLV capability ready packed if they can.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: 80mileshigh on 12/29/2005 09:20 PM
On a point of historical curiosity, did the Energia-Buran program have another title, like the Space-Shuttle program = National Space Transportation System? I'm just finding myself wondering this after learning in this thread that 'Buran' was the specific name of the 1k orbiter.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/30/2005 04:38 PM
Welcome to the site...good question. I've only ever known it as the Buran program, but of course, Buran was the name of the orbiter that went into space, if I recall correctly, with the translation being her name "Snowstorm". The second space-rated Orbiter had a different name.

Hmmm. Anik's the man for this question, hopefully he'll know (or anyone else).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 12/30/2005 07:01 PM
Quote
80mileshigh - 30/12/2005  1:20 AM

On a point of historical curiosity, did the Energia-Buran program have another title, like the Space-Shuttle program = National Space Transportation System?

Reusable Transport Space System "Energiya-Buran"...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: BogoMIPS on 01/03/2006 05:32 PM
Fascinating thread!   I hadn't realized that the 2K orbiter was as close to complete as it appears to be.

I say we spruce her up, and send her up to repair Hubble. :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 01/03/2006 07:13 PM
Me too, had no idea there were so many of these Burans at different stages of construction.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Stowbridge on 01/03/2006 08:29 PM
Amazing thread. So sad to see the beheading Buran and those dusty Burans in the hanger.

Do they not have Museams in Kazakhstan??
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tony T. Harris on 01/03/2006 11:55 PM
Amazing history. I cannot believe they just left those Burans there to get dusty!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Davros on 01/06/2006 11:56 PM
Tourist attraction right there folks.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 01/07/2006 03:43 AM
Quote
Davros - 6/1/2006  6:56 PM

Tourist attraction right there folks.

For people to go there, or the Burans moved out of the country? I've no idea what that country is like (Anik?) but if it's a nice country, then I'd be interested!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: To The Stars on 01/09/2006 06:13 AM
Anything is better than letting them get dusty in those hangers.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 01/25/2006 03:54 AM
So Anik or any other Russians on here. Why do they belong to Kazahstan?

I know the Soviet Union split up, but how did they become property of Kazahstan?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 01/25/2006 06:42 AM
Because they never belonged to Russia. They were Soviet. Then became the Russian Federation and 15 independent nations, former republics of the Soviet Union, emerged.

That is why Russia has to negotiate energy deals with the Ukraine, rather than just claiming it. Same with the Burans :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 01/25/2006 06:43 AM
Hey Sergi, sorry to go off topic, but what are you making of the British Spying with the stone in Moscow?  :o
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 01/25/2006 06:46 AM
It's a bit funny.....but I think our spy whale we sent to London was much more clever ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 01/25/2006 06:48 AM
Quote
Sergi Manstov - 25/1/2006  1:46 AM

It's a bit funny.....but I think our spy whale we sent to London was much more clever ;)

LOL!!! :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Justin Space on 01/25/2006 10:46 AM
Quote
Sergi Manstov - 25/1/2006  1:46 AM

It's a bit funny.....but I think our spy whale we sent to London was much more clever ;)

Hilarity :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 01/26/2006 10:17 PM
I just hate that Buran was crushed. At least with Zenit/Kliper, Buran can live on in some fashion.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: vt_hokie on 01/27/2006 05:07 AM
Imagine where ISS would be today if we had the Russian space shuttle as well as STS to build and service the station!  It's truly a shame that the program died, and very sad to see that the Buran orbiter was destroyed by a roof collapse.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 01/27/2006 08:53 PM
One of the Mir 2 concepts consisted on 4 or 5 Polyus mass station modules launched by Energiya:

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/m/mir288s.jpg
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/mir2.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/miralyut.htm

This is the mega module approach that is so much better than the 20 ton at a time nonsense we have now.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: STS Tony on 02/05/2006 12:45 AM
Will the modification kit been mentioned for the US shuttles be a direct version of the Buran landing kit?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 02/05/2006 01:01 AM
No, I think it's just a remote control for the pilot tubes (air speed indicators) landing great and maybe parachute/brakes.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 02/05/2006 01:02 AM
Woah in the first MIR 2 pic it looks like it's nuke powered! :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 02/05/2006 10:21 AM
Quote
STS Tony - 4/2/2006  7:45 PM

Will the modification kit been mentioned for the US shuttles be a direct version of the Buran landing kit?

No. US Shuttles fly themselves a lot better. Buran was remote controlled a lot of the time. US Shuttles can do a lot without any remote control.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 02/05/2006 07:14 PM
Still a huge achievement by the Soviets. A shame it was only the one time.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Justin Space on 02/08/2006 06:43 PM
Quote
Jamie Young - 5/2/2006  2:14 PM

Still a huge achievement by the Soviets. A shame it was only the one time.

True, and reading some more on this, apparently it would have been her only time anyway, as she suffered too much re-entry damage on that maiden flight, too costly to repair her.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Howard on 02/08/2006 07:26 PM
That is correct.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/10/2006 08:50 PM
It was still a better concept. With engines on the ET you have an HLLV, and with the liquid fueled boosters, you have a good EELV core in Zenit. That type of modular system could be a good US launch system--and had it been pursued instead of STS, would have been used for all kinds of payloads.

If wishes were horses
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jason Sole on 02/28/2006 08:17 PM
I really enjoyed the video. Are there any other videos of the Buran out there?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rob in KC on 02/28/2006 09:33 PM
Hope so as this is a great thread and more video would be awesome.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/28/2006 11:29 PM
I'll see what I can find, although I'm pretty sure the one at the start of the thread is the only major video that exsists.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Howard on 03/01/2006 03:30 AM
Thanks for this thread, a great read and resource throughout.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 03/01/2006 04:13 AM
Still think it's disgusting, everytime I read this thread, on how those orbiters have been treated. If that ever happens to the NASA orbiters I will be outraged.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/01/2006 12:01 PM
It looks like there were more Soviets shuttles built that US. 

OV-98  MPTA
OV-99  STA and Challenger
OV-101  ALT, Enterprise
102  Columbia
103  Discover
104   Atlantis
105   Endeavour

Mockups
Rockwell, Downey
JSC (1 and 1/2)

Not going to count visitor center mockups at JSC, KSC, and MSFC



Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/01/2006 12:09 PM
From all I read, the only reason that a Soviet shuttle existed is that they suffered "shuttle envy".  If the US needs it, then we must need it.  They never "really" had uses planned for it.   It was more like: we have it, now what can we do with it.  
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 03/01/2006 01:10 PM
Yes. The Soviet Union did not wish for the Americans to have this capacity exclusively. At the time the Kremlin saw the Shuttle as the carrier for the Star Wars system, which would allow America to attack the Soviet Union at will and be able to defend against a counter strike.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/01/2006 03:15 PM
But did the Soviets have a Star Wars of their own, or was Buran an expensive double bluff?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/01/2006 06:10 PM
Quote
Jim - 1/3/2006  7:01 AM

It looks like there were more Soviets shuttles built that US.  

OV-98  MPTA
OV-99  STA and Challenger
OV-101  ALT, Enterprise
102  Columbia
103  Discover
104   Atlantis
105   Endeavour

Mockups
Rockwell, Downey
JSC (1 and 1/2)

Not going to count visitor center mockups at JSC, KSC, and MSFC




Are Explorer and Pathfinder included in there as the mockups?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/01/2006 06:19 PM
Quote
Jamie Young - 1/3/2006  1:10 PM
Quote
Jim - 1/3/2006  7:01 AMIt looks like there were more Soviets shuttles built that US.  

OV-98  MPTA
OV-99  STA and Challenger
OV-101  ALT, Enterprise
102  Columbia
103  Discover
104   Atlantis
105   Endeavour

Mockups
Rockwell, Downey
JSC (1 and 1/2)

Not going to count visitor center mockups at JSC, KSC, and MSFC



Are Explorer and Pathfinder included in there as the mockups?

I believe Pathfinder is OV-098 MPTA.

Explorer is a visitor center mockup.  there is also a mockup at ATX outside of KSC.
I didn't include them because they were not built for the shuttle program.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/01/2006 06:22 PM
Quote
Hotol - 1/3/2006  10:15 AMBut did the Soviets have a Star Wars of their own, or was Buran an expensive double bluff?

The payload, Polyus, on the first Energia launch was rumored or suppose to be a laser battle station
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/01/2006 09:31 PM
Laser battle station? Wow, any images?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 03/01/2006 10:41 PM
Astronautix.com. has a good one.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 03/02/2006 12:53 AM
Quote
Jamie Young - 1/3/2006  4:31 PM

Laser battle station? Wow, any images?

Hope so, I would love to see some.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 03/02/2006 01:16 AM
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/polyus.htm

And attached to Energia:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 03/02/2006 01:21 AM
Wow! Thanks for that image.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/02/2006 01:41 AM
Quote
rsp1202 - 1/3/2006  8:16 PMhttp://www.astronautix.com/craft/polyus.htmAnd attached to Energia:

Notice that it says "MIR" on it
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SimonShuttle on 03/02/2006 09:22 AM
As Dr Evil in Austin Powers would say "It's an Energia booster with a frigging laser beam" :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SRBseparama on 03/05/2006 01:15 AM
And wasn't going to be able to launch again as she suffered very bad damage.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SRBseparama on 03/05/2006 01:15 AM
Hey, why did you delete your post Ben?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Guy on 03/05/2006 01:30 AM
Sorry about that, I noticed what I thought was a recent comment but it was from last November :-)

I was replying to the question about whether it was being prepared for another flight...I replied,

"No, this collapse just happened in 2002." It was essentially just a storage and show facility. Unfortunate. I also point out that all three of the world's first reusable spacecraft are gone.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/08/2006 06:56 PM
Quote
Jim - 1/3/2006  8:41 PM

Quote
rsp1202 - 1/3/2006  8:16 PMhttp://www.astronautix.com/craft/polyus.htmAnd attached to Energia:

Notice that it says "MIR" on it

Peace!

That's a good one. ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/09/2006 10:23 AM
Did the collapse happen when it was the Soviet Union or Kazahstan?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 03/09/2006 10:30 AM
It happened in 2002, the Soviet Union fell in 1991.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/09/2006 11:03 AM
Quote
nacnud - 9/3/2006  5:30 AM

It happened in 2002, the Soviet Union fell in 1991.

So she was sat in that hanger, on top of her tank and boosters, for years after her first launch? Seems crazy they didn't at least store her in a hanger, rather than leaving her in the processing facility?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 03/09/2006 11:13 AM
It was attached to an wood mockup of Energia in a storage facility when the accident happened.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2006 11:26 AM
Quote
DaveS - 9/3/2006  6:13 AMIt was attached to an wood mockup of Energia in a storage facility when the accident happened.

It was a flight Energia.  Look at the pics in the earlier posts on this thread.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/09/2006 04:44 PM
Quote
DaveS - 9/3/2006  6:13 AM

It was attached to an wood mockup of Energia in a storage facility when the accident happened.

Thanks, that's a shame.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 03/09/2006 05:12 PM
What is this smoke that's coming out of Buran's aft engine compartment seen on the photo below? It comes from a Buran lading video I downloaded a while ago. Forgot where I got it from, but I think I got it from www.buran.ru. It doesn't start until Buran is about 8 seconds from wheels stop on the runway.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Maverick on 03/09/2006 07:16 PM
Paracutes - such as the canister that releases them?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 03/09/2006 07:37 PM
It's not related to the dragchute system, that's one thing I'm 100% certain about. It's clearly a smoke of some sort coming from some kind of vent(??) as it appears in pulses. Very visible APU exhaust maybe???
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/09/2006 07:51 PM
Some kind of intentional purge most likely.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Stowbridge on 03/09/2006 08:59 PM
Quote
DaveS - 9/3/2006  2:37 PM

It's not related to the dragchute system, that's one thing I'm 100% certain about. It's clearly a smoke of some sort coming from some kind of vent(??) as it appears in pulses. Very visible APU exhaust maybe???

Hmmm. They could have simply been moving the nozzles into purge and drain mode and that's what you're seeing come out. Good question though.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2006 11:54 PM
I forgot I had this pic
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 03/10/2006 05:30 AM
Quote
DaveS - 9/3/2006  12:37 PM

It's not related to the dragchute system, that's one thing I'm 100% certain about. It's clearly a smoke of some sort coming from some kind of vent(??) as it appears in pulses. Very visible APU exhaust maybe???

Yes, it's the APUs' exhaust.  (info from buran.ru)  photo of a unit being tested: http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/baikal45.jpg  Here's a video showing them in action from the aft (white plumes in bursts on the left/right of the 'chute just below the OMS pods at the end of the video)  http://www.buran.ru/video/avi/landing4.avi
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 03/10/2006 06:11 AM
Caption below the video (online translation) : "The rear view along axial line runway on landing "Buran", on November, 15th 1988?., 09.23.00 DMV; the split air brake, exhausts working VSU and "flowing down" with a heat-shielding of "Buran" streams of hot air is well visible. "  VSU is a Russian abbriviation for an "auxiliary power unit"
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 03/10/2006 12:25 PM
Thanks lmike for the explanation! I wonder what fuel they used for their Buran APUs since the exhaust is so visible compared to the US orbiter's APU exhaust?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 03/10/2006 06:51 PM
Hydrazine
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/10/2006 10:18 PM
Quote
Jim - 9/3/2006  6:54 PM

I forgot I had this pic

And we won't be seeing those two together again :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 03/11/2006 02:45 PM
Quote
Jim - 9/3/2006  6:54 PM

I forgot I had this pic

I'm curious to know if this image was taken soon after the Buran had landed. It seems very unattended to.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/11/2006 02:57 PM
Quote
NASA_Twix_JSC - 11/3/2006  9:45 AM
Quote
Jim - 9/3/2006  6:54 PMI forgot I had this pic
I'm curious to know if this image was taken soon after the Buran had landed. It seems very unattended to.

That photo was taken in Aug 04
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/11/2006 04:34 PM
Anyone here know when Buran landed, in that case?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/11/2006 04:41 PM
Quote
Jamie Young - 11/3/2006  8:34 PM

Anyone here know when Buran landed, in that case?

Buran landed only once at 06:24:42 UTC on November 15, 1988...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/11/2006 05:01 PM
Quote
anik - 11/3/2006  11:41 AM

Quote
Jamie Young - 11/3/2006  8:34 PM

Anyone here know when Buran landed, in that case?

Buran landed only once at 06:24:42 UTC on November 15, 1988...

What was she doing on the runway in August?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/11/2006 05:34 PM
Quote
Jamie Young - 11/3/2006  12:01 PM
Quote
anik - 11/3/2006  11:41 AM
Quote
Jamie Young - 11/3/2006  8:34 PMAnyone here know when Buran landed, in that case?
Buran landed only once at 06:24:42 UTC on November 15, 1988...
What was she doing on the runway in August?

That isn't "the" Buran, just another test version that has been sitting outside for years.

Look earlier in the thread, there is a pic of all the "CCCP" Orbiters.  That's where I got this one
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 03/11/2006 07:15 PM
Oh yes and you can see the hanger in the background with the roof caved in, where the actual Buran that went into space was destroyed. Amazing pictures Jim. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/15/2006 06:11 PM
That is a nice pic. If only the US had the Energiya Buran type STS and vice versa.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/16/2006 09:35 AM
And this is me infront of the 4MT in Baikonur
12th of December 2005
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/16/2006 01:40 PM
That's about as recent a photo I've seen. She's holding up well, bar a bit of a paint job on the nose and tail.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/16/2006 09:03 PM
Mind you, this is her good side, the other side has alot of "tiles" missing
I'm probably going back there at the end of this year, so I can make an "update" picture of her ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Pointman 7 on 03/16/2006 10:35 PM
Excellent thread. This is a good historical record of these great ships. If Kazhastan dont' want to look after them, we can at least emortalize them.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/17/2006 07:42 AM
I will see if I can sneak into MIK 112a to get a picture of the one(s) in there (I believe only little bird is in there), but only if I dont see the wrong end of a AK-47 ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/17/2006 03:51 PM
Quote
Jester - 17/3/2006  2:42 AM

I will see if I can sneak into MIK 112a to get a picture of the one(s) in there (I believe only little bird is in there), but only if I dont see the wrong end of a AK-47 ;)

Just tell them you're Dutch. Everyone loves the Dutch.

Thank Barney Vanderbelt (spelling) for that :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bruce H on 03/18/2006 03:15 AM
Jester, is there an chance you can actually enter the Buran on display? Internal images of the ships are rare, but I'm not sure if you'll even be able to get in, nevermind if there's anything interesting left inside.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/19/2006 01:19 PM
I will see if I can enter the one on display when I go back there.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/19/2006 10:10 PM
Quote
Jester - 19/3/2006  2:19 PM

I will see if I can enter the one on display when I go back there.

That would be excellent.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/23/2006 05:56 PM
If only we had one in Huntsville. I would love to see some Soviet rocket mock-ups to stand next to the rockets on display there--to show just how big R-7 and Proton are.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/23/2006 07:42 PM

Quote
publiusr - 23/3/2006 12:56 PM If only we had one in Huntsville. I would love to see some Soviet rocket mock-ups to stand next to the rockets on display there--to show just how big R-7 and Proton are.

Are going to put up EELV's also to show how big they are.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zappafrank on 03/26/2006 05:56 AM
Which one was on display in Sydney in 2000?

I almost went to see it, but the admission price was huge and it wasn't the one that flew in space.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/26/2006 10:38 AM
Quote
zappafrank - 26/3/2006  9:56 AM

Which one was on display in Sydney in 2000?

2M (or OK-GLI, or BTS-002) full-size model, which was used for 24 test flights in atmosphere...

Images from Vadim Lukashevich's "Buran" website - http://www.buran.ru
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/26/2006 11:54 AM
Quote
Jester - 17/3/2006  12:42 PM

I will see if I can sneak into MIK 112a to get a picture of the one(s) in there (I believe only little bird is in there)

There are two birds in this building (see image below) - 7M (or OK-ML1) full-size model and 2K (or "Burya") orbital spacecraft...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/26/2006 12:38 PM
Quote
anik - 26/3/2006  12:54 PM

Quote
Jester - 17/3/2006  12:42 PM

I will see if I can sneak into MIK 112a to get a picture of the one(s) in there (I believe only little bird is in there)

There are two birds in this building (see image below) - 7M (or OK-ML1) full-size model and 2K (or "Burya") orbital spacecraft...

Thanks anik, I will see if I can get in there......and yes i'll bring a mop and some soft soapy water :P
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 03/26/2006 03:39 PM
Quote
zappafrank - 25/3/2006  11:56 PM

Which one was on display in Sydney in 2000?

I almost went to see it, but the admission price was huge and it wasn't the one that flew in space.

What happened to it after 2000?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/26/2006 04:35 PM
Quote
Jester - 26/3/2006  12:38 PM

Quote
anik - 26/3/2006  12:54 PM

Quote
Jester - 17/3/2006  12:42 PM

I will see if I can sneak into MIK 112a to get a picture of the one(s) in there (I believe only little bird is in there)

There are two birds in this building (see image below) - 7M (or OK-ML1) full-size model and 2K (or "Burya") orbital spacecraft...

Thanks anik, I will see if I can get in there......and yes i'll bring a mop and some soft soapy water :P

Please do! It would be fantastic to update their status.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zappafrank on 03/26/2006 05:03 PM
I know its not in Sydney anymore.

They brought it in for the Olympics and all the crowds, I was there shortly afterward.

I suppose I should have gone to see it, but money was tight.

I call that version of Buran the 727 Buran, due to the 3 engines on the tail


(Maybe that should be the Tupolev 154 version?)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: TheMadCap on 03/26/2006 05:07 PM
Does anyone have a vid of the Buran launch? I have seen one on the internet, but it was only the liftoff...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/26/2006 05:31 PM
Quote
Hotol - 26/3/2006  7:39 PM

What happened to it after 2000?

BTS-002 was in Bahrein in 2002-2004 (see the image below) and is in Auto and Technic museum at Sinsheim (Germany) now...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/26/2006 06:04 PM
Quote
zappafrank - 26/3/2006  9:03 PM

I call that version of Buran the 727 Buran, due to the 3 engines on the tail

Four, not three, AL-31 turbojets...

Quote
TheMadCap - 26/3/2006  9:07 PM

Does anyone have a video of the Buran launch?

Did you see the video on the first page of this thread?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=636&start=1
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/26/2006 06:28 PM
Quote
TheMadCap - 26/3/2006  5:07 PM

Does anyone have a vid of the Buran launch? I have seen one on the internet, but it was only the liftoff...

As Anik says, we have the best video on the very front of this thread! :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/29/2006 07:09 PM
That video is a great find.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Maltboy! on 03/31/2006 03:38 PM
Could someone please eloborate on the thermal damage caused during her re-entry?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sergi Manstov on 03/31/2006 04:45 PM
Quote
Maltboy! - 31/3/2006  9:38 AM

Could someone please eloborate on the thermal damage caused during her re-entry?

Welcome to the site.

There is not a great amount of detail as the damage is not very well documented by photo evidence, but the extensive thermal damage to the TPS was very severe and she even suffered a bent airframe, it is told. What is important to know is the Buran TPS was actually more resilient than the NASA orbiters, so it was a bad re-entry.

Anyone have more?

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/31/2006 05:18 PM
Quote
Sergi Manstov - 31/3/2006  8:45 PM

Anyone have more?

All links (below) in Russian...

http://www.buran.ru/htm/terlost.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/tersaf2.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/tersaf3.htm

Before spaceflight... :)

[img=http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/do07.jpg]

After spaceflight... :(

[img=http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/posle14.jpg]

[img=http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/posle15.jpg]
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Justin Space on 04/03/2006 10:33 AM
I'm surprised she got back in one piece looking at that chunk that was taken out of the wing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Tony T. Harris on 04/03/2006 07:06 PM
Looks like bad TPS as the surrounding areas show thermal heating, but no signs of structural breakdown. Could have been an impact on ascent that weakened that specific bad area.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 04/04/2006 04:27 PM
Bump as I put this link on another forum that was talking about the Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Terry Rocket on 04/08/2006 08:04 AM
Whatever became of Buran's younger sister, Ptichka?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/08/2006 09:24 AM
Quote
Terry Rocket - 8/4/2006  12:04 PM

Whatever became of Buran's younger sister, Ptichka?

As I said earlier, the second spacecraft (2K) had unofficial "Burya" (not "Ptichka") name... Now 2K is belonged to Kazakhstan and stored in the assembly-refueling building (MZK) on the area 112A of the Baikonur cosmodrome (see bottom spacecraft on an image below)...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/08/2006 11:02 AM
By the way, two new photogalleries was published on "Novosti kosmonavtiki" website:

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_076/index.shtml - Raskat launch pad for Energiya rocket with Buran spacecraft (area 110, Baikonur cosmodrome, 29 March 2006)

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_077/index.shtml - UKSS universal complex launch pad (stand) for Energiya rocket (area 250, Baikonur cosmodrome, 29 March 2006)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jonesy STS on 04/08/2006 07:56 PM
You'd think someone would spare a day or two to dust those two ladies down :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Maltboy! on 04/10/2006 06:46 PM
Thanks for the links.  Looks like she had a rough flight.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 04/10/2006 09:12 PM
Hi!

I've been recently on Baykonur and the information that I have is that the second Buran (that has the designation Buran-2) is stored toghether with the Energia-M rocket inside the Vibration Test Building at site 112A.
I've also asked about Ptichka designation and the information I have is that there was no sich designation only Buran-2.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/11/2006 03:29 PM
Quote
Satori - 11/4/2006  1:12 AM

the second Buran is stored together with the Energia-M rocket inside the Vibration Test Building at site 112A

No... Only a breadboard of Energiya-M rocket is stored inside the Vibration Test Building (correctly - the Stand of Dynamic Tests [SDI]) at site 112A... The second spacecraft (2K) is stored inside the Assembly Refueling Building (MZK) also at site 112A... See the image below from "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine for better understanding...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 04/12/2006 10:34 AM
That's a big complex, and it's still at the cosmodrome today?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/12/2006 02:19 PM
Quote
Hotol - 12/4/2006  2:34 PM

That's a big complex, and it's still at the cosmodrome today?

Yes, of course!... This photo was made in the October 2004...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 04/12/2006 06:41 PM
I wish I could visit that place.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 04/13/2006 10:33 AM
Quote
publiusr - 12/4/2006  1:41 PM

I wish I could visit that place.

Me too! That place could make a ton of cash from tourists!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy USA on 04/13/2006 01:22 PM
I agree. It must be the only place in the world where you could get to see such amazing facilities. The Cape and KSC would be up there, but there's no way security would allow you around many of the places.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 04/14/2006 10:38 AM
Here you have the same buildings on March 2006.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hotol on 04/14/2006 10:54 AM
Ah, Thank you. I didn't think it was 'that' tall a building! :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mr Verkhoturov on 04/14/2006 12:13 PM
Good day.

A list. First test articles.

OK-TVA
OK-GLI
OK-ML-1
OK-ML-2
OK-KS
OK-TVI
OK-005
OK-008

Vehicles.

1.01 - Buran
1.02 - Ptichka
2.01 - Second series 1
2.02 - Second series 2
2.03 - Second series 3

Thank you for remembering.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 04/14/2006 06:24 PM
The same Mr Verkhoturov with RSC Energia?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 04/15/2006 12:10 AM
Hi!

In Baykonur nobody remembers that the second Buran was named Ptichka. Isn't this strange? The only answer that I had about this was that the second orbiter was simply Buran-2. Any comments?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/15/2006 10:17 AM
What is the translation for that name in English? I know Buran = Snowstorm.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 04/15/2006 11:22 AM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 15/4/2006  12:17 PM

What is the translation for that name in English? I know Buran = Snowstorm.
You mean Ptichka? I think it means "little bird".
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/15/2006 02:26 PM
Yes, that was the question - thanks.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 05/18/2006 10:22 PM
Thread Bump.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zerm on 05/22/2006 12:42 AM
Tourists at the Buran site- that's what someone mentioned earlier- FYI Read "Two Sides of the Moon" and Alexei Leonov's account of this landscape- it is crawling with deadly spiders and snakes. A bit harder to control and avoid than the Cape's gators.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 06/09/2006 09:18 PM
That's sad.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 06/12/2006 01:39 PM
Quote
zerm - 22/5/2006  2:29 AM

Tourists at the Buran site- that's what someone mentioned earlier- FYI Read "Two Sides of the Moon" and Alexei Leonov's account of this landscape- it is crawling with deadly spiders and snakes. A bit harder to control and avoid than the Cape's gators.

Try scorpions, inside the MIK112 building yesterday.....

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Launch Fan on 06/12/2006 11:09 PM
Quote
Jester - 12/6/2006  8:26 AM

Quote
zerm - 22/5/2006  2:29 AM

Tourists at the Buran site- that's what someone mentioned earlier- FYI Read "Two Sides of the Moon" and Alexei Leonov's account of this landscape- it is crawling with deadly spiders and snakes. A bit harder to control and avoid than the Cape's gators.

Try scorpions, inside the MIK112 building yesterday.....


Are you at Baykonur??!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Damon Hill on 06/13/2006 02:40 AM
Quote
Mr Verkhoturov - 14/4/2006  5:00 AM

K-008

Vehicles.

1.01 - Buran
1.02 - Ptichka
2.01 - Second series 1
2.02 - Second series 2
2.03 - Second series 3

Thank you for remembering.

How would the 'second series' vehicles differ from the first?  I'd assume improved systems and
structures, lower dry weight, etc.

--Damon
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 06/13/2006 09:00 AM
Quote
Launch Fan - 13/6/2006  12:56 AM

Quote
Jester - 12/6/2006  8:26 AM

Quote
zerm - 22/5/2006  2:29 AM

Tourists at the Buran site- that's what someone mentioned earlier- FYI Read "Two Sides of the Moon" and Alexei Leonov's account of this landscape- it is crawling with deadly spiders and snakes. A bit harder to control and avoid than the Cape's gators.

Try scorpions, inside the MIK112 building yesterday.....


Are you at Baykonur??!

No, I have contacts with the METOP launch champaign, i'm going there at the end of this year.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 06/16/2006 09:51 PM
Take lots of pictures.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/26/2006 03:21 AM
Bumped due to relevance of new article relating to unmanned landings of orbiters.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mr Verkhoturov on 06/28/2006 05:28 AM
The roof collapse was snow pressure on structure PLUS underfunding for maitence work. Funding has been problem with federal space for long time.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 06/28/2006 08:12 AM
Google Earth has been updated !

Here are the MIK112 building and the Buran Test Model
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zoomer30 on 06/30/2006 12:43 AM
I did not see it mentioned in this post, but one reason that the landing of Buran looked more "gentle" then our shuttle was the air breathing engines they had on it for the trst flight.  That would make for a MUCH nicer glideslope and even give a once-around option if they were off course.  If our shuttle is off course on final its an issue.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 06/30/2006 12:58 AM
the Buran did not have air breathing engines on it's one spaceflight.  The jet engines were only on a trainer.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 06/30/2006 10:38 PM
There was talk of Buran having jets but they were omitted. They could have come in handy on later missions that were to have been.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Damon Hill on 07/01/2006 07:57 AM
I did a Google tour and found the MIK112 building and two launch pads that are on concrete-covered mounds about 100 feet high--quite a moderate grade for the railroad transporters to climb.

I also followed the double tracks out to a >third< launch pad that is much more distant, and doesn't look used.  What was this pad used for?  There are also two largish buildings big enough for a single transporter, on spurs off the "main line" between the pads and assembly hall.

It all rather reminds me of the Titan complex in Florida, but covering an even larger area in a desert instead of a swamp!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 07/01/2006 10:47 AM
Quote
Damon Hill - 1/7/2006  11:44 AM

I also followed the double tracks out to a >third< launch pad that is much more distant, and doesn't look used. What was this pad used for?

It is the Universal Complex Stand (UKSS) on site 250, which was used for testing of engines of Energiya rocket and, also, for the first launch of Energiya rocket on May 15, 1987... See an image of UKSS below (from Novosti kosmonavtiki website)...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 07/07/2006 04:54 PM
Impressive.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 07/07/2006 05:17 PM
It is isn't it, take a look in google earth or maps you can easily find all the launch sites, N1, Buran, Soyuz, Progress, Zenith etc. Well worth a look.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: James (Lockheed) on 07/07/2006 10:53 PM
Quote
anik - 1/7/2006  5:34 AM

Quote
Damon Hill - 1/7/2006  11:44 AM

I also followed the double tracks out to a >third< launch pad that is much more distant, and doesn't look used. What was this pad used for?

It is the Universal Complex Stand (UKSS) on site 250, which was used for testing of engines of Energiya rocket and, also, for the first launch of Energiya rocket on May 15, 1987... See an image of UKSS below (from Novosti kosmonavtiki website)...

That is some pad. Serious amount of work went into that.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 07/27/2006 06:31 PM
New poster here... with some 'new' old pictures. I bought them at a kiosk when I was in Baikonur in 1992. Lots of space stuff was available back then. During my last visit in 2004, I wasn't able to buy a single space souvenir, postcard or whatever space-related... The pictures show Buran 2 on the pad, around May 1991. Obviously, lots of work remained to be done on the space craft. Note the added thrusters in the nose RCS. The Energia vehicle is the test mockup, that I think was lost with the original Buran after the roof collapse. As I understood, 'Ptitchka' was a generic pet name for the orbiter, not the name of any particular vehicle.

Luc
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 07/27/2006 06:32 PM
New poster here... with some 'new' old pictures. I bought them at a kiosk when I was in Baikonur in 1992. Lots of space stuff was available back then. During my last visit in 2004, I wasn't able to buy a single space souvenir, postcard or whatever space-related... The pictures show Buran 2 on the pad, around May 1991. Obviously, lots of work remained to be done on the space craft. Note the added thrusters in the nose RCS. The Energia vehicle is the test mockup, that I think was lost with the original Buran after the roof collapse. As I understood, 'Ptitchka' was a generic pet name for the orbiter, not the name of any particular vehicle.

Luc
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Boris the Space Dog on 07/27/2006 06:42 PM
Wow, great images.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/27/2006 09:13 PM
Wonderful images. Very rare I'm sure. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DarthVader on 07/27/2006 10:15 PM
Yes, thanks a lot lucspace!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 07/27/2006 10:32 PM
The most interesting thing to me about Energia and Energia/Buran was the transporter/erector system. Just an incredible, massive piece of machinery that reminded me a lot of the old Thunderbird and Japanese scifi movies with their awesome spaceport machinery and erectors. Those were miniatures, though, while the Energia stuff was real.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DarthVader on 07/27/2006 10:40 PM
The transporter was a modification of the one built for the N1 Moon rocket ... amazing stuff indeed.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Davros on 07/28/2006 01:21 PM
Any pics of the actual transporter?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 07/28/2006 03:49 PM
So this was a fit test as such before rolling back and finishing off the TPS etc?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 07/28/2006 04:04 PM
Quote
Davros - 28/7/2006  8:08 AM

Any pics of the actual transporter?

There's a good collection of them here:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/g/h/ghb1/n1/n1synth13.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 07/28/2006 07:04 PM
Hi,

With regards to the two pictures Luc posted, I have searched the Buran.ru and astronautix.com sites, the Energia big book and the Roscosmos photo album but they do not have that pad test pictured.

These are indeed rare shots. Well done Luc !

I wonder, Does anyone know the exact timing of that pad test and designation of the Buran orbiter ?

TIA,

Neville
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 07/28/2006 09:49 PM
Quote
spaceamillion - 28/7/2006  10:51 PM

I wonder, does anyone know the exact timing of that pad test and designation of the Buran orbiter?

According to Novosti kosmonavtiki, the spacecraft No. 1.02 (or 11F35 No. 2K, or Buran-2, or Burya) was on the left pad (No. 37) of the launch complex No. 110 from May 16 till May 30, 1991... During two weeks there were conducted tests of modes of fuelling of spacecraft and also emergency evacuation of crew... The launch of unmanned spacecraft No. 1.02 was planned in December 1991 then...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 07/28/2006 10:05 PM
Hi Anik,

Thanks for that info !!

I wonder why the Roscomos book or the Buran.ru site in particular does not have this event covered ?

Cheers,

Neville

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 07/28/2006 10:25 PM
Hi Anik,

The Russian press reported that Helen Sharman, Artesbarski and Krikalev had watched the roll-out of the combination (although I don't recall anything about in her autobiography). I will  have to check my news videos of her Soyuz TM-12 mission to see if any reports covered this....

Thanks again,

Neville




Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 07/28/2006 11:48 PM
Replying to my earlier thoughts...

There was coverage from Vremya and the BBC of the roll-out - just a snatch of coverage on TV.

Cheers

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/29/2006 05:20 PM
Quote
spaceamillion - 28/7/2006  11:12 PM

Hi Anik,

The Russian press reported that Helen Sharman, Artesbarski and Krikalev had watched the roll-out of the combination (although I don't recall anything about in her autobiography). I will  have to check my news videos of her Soyuz TM-12 mission to see if any reports covered this....

Thanks again,

Neville





Am I reading this right? Helen Sharman was a potential crew member for a "Buran" mission?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 07/29/2006 05:45 PM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/7/2006  9:07 PM

Am I reading this right? Helen Sharman was a potential crew member for a "Buran" mission?

No!... :) The rollout of Buran-2 spacecraft was on May 16, 1991... Artsebarsky, Krikalyov and Sharman were on Baikonur in this day, because they were preparing to the launch aboard Soyuz TMA-12 spacecraft, which was planned on May 18, 1991... :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/29/2006 06:35 PM
Ah, thanks :)

Would have been something major if a British Astronaut had launched on a Soviet vehicle that was built as a direct response to the Shuttle being used as a military vehicle!  :o  ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 07/29/2006 06:45 PM
Hi,

Here are a couple of pics showing the TM-12 crew and the Buran roll-out from the same TV report.

Neville
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 08/13/2006 09:56 PM
Thanks for the pics. Any new links to the Polyus pictures?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rob in KC on 08/16/2006 10:48 PM
Any diagrams or more images of that amazing vehicle transporter?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 08/18/2006 06:43 PM
I think it was the same one that was used to move the N-1, and that dictated its size IIRC.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: oscar71 on 08/27/2006 08:13 PM
Quote
Flightstar - 18/10/2005  7:39 PM

There were reports she was destroyed when her hanger roof collapsed. A model is in Gorky Park and another is with a rich Middle East guy, I think.


I have never seen any pictures of the destroyed shuttle itself.  In the photographs I've seen, the only distinguishable objects are the strap ons and the core stage.  Which begs the question...what was the Buran doing strapped to an Energia 8 years after it's cancellation?  Not to be a conspiracy hound but didn't the Chinese begin talking about building a shuttle of their own some time after Buran's destruction?  The Russians sold the Chinese a Soyuz vehicle, not hard to imagine them selling a shuttle as well.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: meiza on 08/27/2006 09:05 PM
You can see Buran tiles and the top of the cockpit in the pictures from the top of the collapsed-roof hall, it's really smashed to bits under the rubble.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 08/28/2006 03:17 AM
There is an image of a wing too, I remember seeing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Peter NASA on 08/31/2006 05:08 PM
Quote
oscar71 - 27/8/2006  3:00 PM

Quote
Flightstar - 18/10/2005  7:39 PM

There were reports she was destroyed when her hanger roof collapsed. A model is in Gorky Park and another is with a rich Middle East guy, I think.


I have never seen any pictures of the destroyed shuttle itself.  In the photographs I've seen, the only distinguishable objects are the strap ons and the core stage.  Which begs the question...what was the Buran doing strapped to an Energia 8 years after it's cancellation?  Not to be a conspiracy hound but didn't the Chinese begin talking about building a shuttle of their own some time after Buran's destruction?  The Russians sold the Chinese a Soyuz vehicle, not hard to imagine them selling a shuttle as well.

Would be amussing, but wouldn't make sense.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 08/31/2006 10:01 PM
Trust me, i've worked for a month in the building (MIK112) and its there, in pieces, some of the pieces are in the local museum, and they are still cleaning up, I'll be going there again so I'll update, so sorry about that, but no conspiracy with sales to China ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SimonShuttle on 09/01/2006 12:02 PM
Quote
Jester - 31/8/2006  4:48 PM

Trust me, i've worked for a month in the building (MIK112) and its there, in pieces, some of the pieces are in the local museum, and they are still cleaning up, I'll be going there again so I'll update, so sorry about that, but no conspiracy with sales to China ;)

There's still some peices scattered in the building?  :o
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 09/01/2006 12:25 PM
Quote
SimonShuttle - 1/9/2006  1:49 PM

Quote
Jester - 31/8/2006  4:48 PM

Trust me, i've worked for a month in the building (MIK112) and its there, in pieces, some of the pieces are in the local museum, and they are still cleaning up, I'll be going there again so I'll update, so sorry about that, but no conspiracy with sales to China ;)

There's still some peices scattered in the building?  :o

Most of it is gone, however the is still stuff inside, below a picture of the outside, I couldn't get any closer with mr. AK47 being awake.....
however, I have some contact there now, so when I go back I hope to get more on this.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 09/02/2006 01:01 PM
Below is image of external airlock and docking system of Buran spacecraft inside one of buildings at technical zone of the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre (GCTC)... I do not know whether it is real equipment for spaceflight or simply mock-up for trainings... It is in one room with ISS Russian segment simulator, but it is latent from extraneous people... Also the full-size cabin of Buran for trainings and the dynamic stand there... This equipment is in an awful condition there... Sadly... :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Super George on 09/02/2006 05:37 PM
Somebody should fund a restoration program to at least keep these historical items in a good condition.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rob in KC on 09/04/2006 04:13 AM
Quote
anik - 2/9/2006  7:48 AM

Below is image of external airlock and docking system of Buran spacecraft inside one of buildings at technical zone of the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre (GCTC)... I do not know whether it is real equipment for spaceflight or simply mock-up for trainings... It is in one room with ISS Russian segment simulator, but it is latent from extraneous people... Also the full-size cabin of Buran for trainings and the dynamic stand there... This equipment is in an awful condition there... Sadly... :(

Scandelous :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 09/04/2006 07:01 AM
I doubt the Russian gov't will either have, or be willing, to spend the money to preserve/restore any of the Buran hardware. It would come down to having some space-enthusiast, philanthropic donar(s) to set up some type of organization and funding to do that.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SimonShuttle on 09/04/2006 12:31 PM
Quote
MKremer - 4/9/2006  1:48 AM

I doubt the Russian gov't will either have, or be willing, to spend the money to preserve/restore any of the Buran hardware. It would come down to having some space-enthusiast, philanthropic donar(s) to set up some type of organization and funding to do that.

It's got nothing to do with Russia. They are owned by Kazahstan.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/04/2006 05:07 PM
Quote
SimonShuttle - 4/9/2006  1:18 PM

Quote
MKremer - 4/9/2006  1:48 AM

I doubt the Russian gov't will either have, or be willing, to spend the money to preserve/restore any of the Buran hardware. It would come down to having some space-enthusiast, philanthropic donar(s) to set up some type of organization and funding to do that.

It's got nothing to do with Russia. They are owned by Kazahstan.

And remember what happened to the one in Gorky Park.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: James Lowe1 on 09/05/2006 02:19 AM
Didn't they make a cafe bar out of the one in Gorky Park or something?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: emarkay on 09/19/2006 08:52 PM
One would think that interested multi-millionaires like Mark Shuttleworth, Paul Allen, or even Jay Leno could/would offer the Kashics (sp?) some cash to preserve or restore the objects for public display.  Heck, Paul Allen could prob affort to make it flyable!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GioFX on 09/20/2006 06:42 PM
^ LOL hell yep!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 09/21/2006 01:11 AM
So sad to see they couldn't preserve the Buran program, like Rocket Park.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: imfan on 09/21/2006 09:13 AM
buran is not what should be preserved. its energia
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/28/2006 02:32 AM
Moved to the right thread.

Quote
oscar71 - 28/9/2006  3:14 AM

I read that the later models of Buran would have ejection seats for the 4 primary crew members.  I assume that the cosmonauts would be seated on the flight deck, but I have never been able to find a diagram showing how the seats would be arranged.  I assume that ejection seats cannot be stowed away, therefore would there have been enough space on the flight deck for them to carry out operations the way NASA astronauts have been able to?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SRBseparama on 10/05/2006 03:42 AM
A question about Buran if she made continued. How many operating shuttles did the Soviet Union plan to have in service?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/05/2006 05:59 PM
Quote
SRBseparama - 5/10/2006  7:25 AM

How many operating shuttles did the Soviet Union plan to have in service?

At first, five spacecrafts... And we have begun to build all five orbiters... In 1989 the quantity was reduced to three spacecrafts... We have constructed two orbiters fully and the third orbiter almost fully... Other two spacecrafts were unfinished and then disassembled...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Max Q on 10/05/2006 09:12 PM
Did they have names for all five?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Davie OPF on 10/06/2006 05:28 AM
Well there was Buran and Pickta (spelling) which was Russian for Little Bird I believe.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: British NASA on 10/06/2006 12:14 PM
Quote
Mr Verkhoturov - 14/4/2006  6:56 AM

Good day.

A list. First test articles.

OK-TVA
OK-GLI
OK-ML-1
OK-ML-2
OK-KS
OK-TVI
OK-005
OK-008

Vehicles.

1.01 - Buran
1.02 - Ptichka
2.01 - Second series 1
2.02 - Second series 2
2.03 - Second series 3

Thank you for remembering.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 10/07/2006 09:38 PM
Quote
anik - 11/4/2006  7:12 PM

Quote
Satori - 11/4/2006  1:12 AM

the second Buran is stored together with the Energia-M rocket inside the Vibration Test Building at site 112A

No... Only a breadboard of Energiya-M rocket is stored inside the Vibration Test Building (correctly - the Stand of Dynamic Tests [SDI]) at site 112A...

Vadim Lukashevich (author of Buran website (http://www.buran.ru)) has published photos (1 (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m5.jpg), 2 (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m6.jpg), 3 (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m7.jpg), 4 (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m8.jpg)) of dimensional technological breadboard of Energiya-M rocket, which were made on July 23, 2006...

This mock-up was transported (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m2.jpg) to the universal complex launch pad-stand (UKSS) at site 250 on Baikonur cosmodrome on December 25, 1991... The breadboard of Energiya-M rocket was on UKSS (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m1.jpg) during two days... Then the mock-up was transported back into the Stand of Dynamic Tests (http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/ene-m3.jpg) on December 27, 1991...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/12/2006 03:06 PM
Hello everybody,

I'm making a site on Buran and Energia. The major part of the information came from buran.ru (of course) but from other sites too.
I give you the URL (http://en.buran.fr) for those of you who don't understand russian. At the begining I translated all the informations of the Vadim's site in french (and now in english), but I will add new informations as soon as they appears.

Tell me what you think about it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: oscar71 on 10/13/2006 01:33 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 12/10/2006  9:49 AM

Hello everybody,

I'm making a site on Buran and Energia. The major part of the information came from buran.ru (of course) but from other sites too.
I give you the URL (http://en.buran.fr) for those of you who don't understand russian. At the begining I translated all the informations of the Vadim's site in french (and now in english), but I will add new informations as soon as they appears.

Tell me what you think about it.

Thank you.

Great site, thanks for all the hard work.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/13/2006 03:43 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 12/10/2006  3:49 PM

Hello everybody,

I'm making a site on Buran and Energia. The major part of the information came from buran.ru (of course) but from other sites too.
I give you the URL (http://en.buran.fr) for those of you who don't understand russian. At the begining I translated all the informations of the Vadim's site in french (and now in english), but I will add new informations as soon as they appears.

Tell me what you think about it.

Thank you.

Good work. Welcome to the site.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Captain Scarlet on 10/13/2006 02:15 PM
Yeah, nice work with the site. Buran should not be forgotten and the internet has a role to play.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/14/2006 09:35 PM
Thank you for your support, I have still lots of documents to publish about Buran, Energia, Polius and BOR, ..... I will try to make this site as comprehensive and detailled as possible.

You're right Buran was really brillant (technically) and internet can help us remember about the huge amount of work wich have been done to achieve it  :) .
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: simcosmos on 10/15/2006 07:12 PM
Hello buran.fr

I noticed that you are using Orbiter + kulch's (and others work) and have references about that in your nice site; this post might be a good moment to announce that a new Energia version is out, for Orbiter2006P1, links next, for the interested in simulating Buran missions (or test the other launcher capabilities):

Original thread at Orbiter Forums:
http://orbit.m6.net/Forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10544

One of the Download Links:
http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1036

Kulch's site:
http://kulch.spb.ru/ , http://kulch.spb.ru/Eng/Energy_project.html

Orbiter Space Sim:
http://www.orbitersim.com

Have fun all,
António
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 10/15/2006 09:46 PM
I don't know if this was asked here before but can anyone tell me what was made of the debris that resulted from the MIK-112 colapse (roof, Buran and Energiya rockets)? When I was at Baykonur I don't remember seing any debris outside the building. Any help?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/16/2006 07:38 PM
Quote
Satori - 15/10/2006  10:29 PM

I don't know if this was asked here before but can anyone tell me what was made of the debris that resulted from the MIK-112 colapse (roof, Buran and Energiya rockets)? When I was at Baykonur I don't remember seing any debris outside the building. Any help?

Good question, as I don't think they kept the debris - but you never know!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 10/17/2006 12:56 AM
Quote
Satori - 15/10/2006  4:29 PM

I don't know if this was asked here before but can anyone tell me what was made of the debris that resulted from the MIK-112 colapse (roof, Buran and Energiya rockets)? When I was at Baykonur I don't remember seing any debris outside the building. Any help?

There was only a wing left after the collapse?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 10/17/2006 02:34 AM
I think the Buran, had it been fully operational/successful, would have made an excellent compliment to the US Space Shuttles in the development/construction of the ISS.  It's a shame what's happened to those now historic artifacts...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/17/2006 08:25 AM
Quote
Satori - 15/10/2006  11:29 PM

I don't know if this was asked here before but can anyone tell me what was made of the debris that resulted from the MIK-112 colapse (roof, Buran and Energiya rockets)? When I was at Baykonur I don't remember seing any debris outside the building. Any help?

As we can see here: http://maps.google.com/?q=Russia&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=17&ll=45.927722,63.... they didn't clean up the building. I don't know when the picture was taken.

Their is no informations available about the debris, what did they do ?, did they trash them, did they sort them,....

Edited by buran.fr 17/10/2006 10:05 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 10/17/2006 09:28 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 17/10/2006  3:08 AM

Quote
Satori - 15/10/2006  11:29 PM

I don't know if this was asked here before but can anyone tell me what was made of the debris that resulted from the MIK-112 colapse (roof, Buran and Energiya rockets)? When I was at Baykonur I don't remember seing any debris outside the building. Any help?

As we can see here: http://maps.google.com/?q=Russia&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=17&ll=45.927722,63.... they didn't clean up the building. I don't know when the picture was taken.

Their is no informations available about the debris, what did they do ?, did they trash them, did they sort them,....


If you use Google Earth and go to 45ş55'39.17'' N - 63ş17'53.89'' E you arrive at MIK-112. You can see some details of material still inside and there you'll see a conic shape there, maybe the top of a Energiya booster (or is my mind just seeing what I want to see???)??.

One can also see the Buran model near by, rusting...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/17/2006 09:40 AM
It's hard to say. If you look outside the building you see the 2 transportation systems wich was used to move energia to the launch pad. I used it as a scale and I think this cone is not the cone of a booster, it is too big. May be I was the nose cone of another Energia beeing built.

If we look closer we can't see any details of the dead Buran as we can see on the pictures here : http://en.buran.fr/bourane/bourane-fin.php

The model laying near the building is the OK-M (thermal and mechanics stress tests)

http://en.buran.fr/bourane/bourane-modele-m.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 10/17/2006 09:55 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 17/10/2006  4:23 AM

It's hard to say. If you look outside the building you see the 2 transportation systems wich was used to move energia to the launch pad. I used it as a scale and I think this cone is not the cone of a booster, it is too big. May be I was the nose cone of another Energia beeing built.


Yes, that's what I wanted to say

Quote

If we look closer we can't see any details of the dead Buran as we can see on the pictures here : http://en.buran.fr/bourane/bourane-fin.php


Hummm, I think this images aren't from Baykonur. I don't remember seing any trees near MIK-112. I think that if this was at Baykonur they would show us the same way they show us the OK-M. Maybe they are from the NPO Molniya facilities?


[/QUOTE]
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/17/2006 11:49 AM
Quote
Satori - 17/10/2006  11:38 AM


Quote

If we look closer we can't see any details of the dead Buran as we can see on the pictures here : http://en.buran.fr/bourane/bourane-fin.php


Hummm, I think this images aren't from Baykonur. I don't remember seing any trees near MIK-112. I think that if this was at Baykonur they would show us the same way they show us the OK-M. Maybe they are from the NPO Molniya facilities?


[/QUOTE]

Yes the 2 first pictures are from the Tushino factory near Moscow, I was speaking about the others for the details of the dead Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/17/2006 02:55 PM
Wow, I didn't know people died in this accident! :o
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/17/2006 03:00 PM
Yes, 7 workmen, (or 8 depending of the sources), they were fixing the roof when it collapsed.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Far Reach on 10/17/2006 08:53 PM
That's very sad to hear.

On another question. Doesn't the Russians have some sort of restoration project where they could save these vehicles from Kazahstan?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/17/2006 09:21 PM
No nothing plan yet, Buran and Energia are now property of the Kazahstan.
Knowing that they recently cancel their project Klipper (orbital glidder to replace the Soyuz) I think they don't have in mind to restore Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 10/17/2006 11:52 PM
Those pictures of the tragedy literally make me ill.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/19/2006 07:24 PM
Moved to the right thread :)

"Hello,

New to the forum here. I just read an article from this this, linked below, that indicates that buran suffered extensive damage in flight. I had not heard this before. Can anyone shed light iinto the nature of the damage and perhaps point me towards more information on this sucbject?

Thanks!

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4582"
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/19/2006 10:53 PM
There have been rumors about the damages but the problem is that there is no many informations about it. The chief pilot Igor Volk who flown on the analog shuttle (to validate the aerodynamics shape and to develop the flying software) said that the on-board computer suffered a lot during the landing. Otherwise there is no evidence about injuries on the mechanical structure (from what I know). Personally I found those rumors (about a damage on the structure of the plane) strange because the heating shield resisted well during the re-entry, so the mechanical couldn't be damaged due to the heat.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/19/2006 11:04 PM
They said that Buran didn't fly again because it was severally damaged, but the main raison is more political and/or economical.

The use of Buran-Energia was not clearly defined and the project was really very expensive (the most of the former Soviet Union), moreover the economy of the USSR was really disastrous at this time so they paused the project because there was no really missions for the Buran. The next flight should have been in 1992 so 4 years after the 1st launch, and in 91 it was the end of the USSR.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sphereion on 10/24/2006 09:48 PM
Well once Challenger happened, the Soviets would have had no political will, correct?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jorge on 10/25/2006 01:40 AM
Quote
Sphereion - 24/10/2006  4:31 PM

Well once Challenger happened, the Soviets would have had no political will, correct?

Huh? Challenger was almost three years before the first Buran flight - if it was going to affect their political will, why would it have affected the second flight and not the first?
--
JRF
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SRBseparama on 10/25/2006 03:23 AM
Quote
Jorge - 24/10/2006  8:23 PM

Quote
Sphereion - 24/10/2006  4:31 PM

Well once Challenger happened, the Soviets would have had no political will, correct?

Huh? Challenger was almost three years before the first Buran flight - if it was going to affect their political will, why would it have affected the second flight and not the first?
--
JRF

Yeah. That's what I thought. Did the USAF pull out of the Shuttle program immediately after Challenger, or a few years later, which would help explain the lack of will for the Soviets to continue.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 10/25/2006 05:06 AM
Quote
SRBseparama - 24/10/2006  10:06 PM

Quote
Jorge - 24/10/2006  8:23 PM

Quote
Sphereion - 24/10/2006  4:31 PM

Well once Challenger happened, the Soviets would have had no political will, correct?

Huh? Challenger was almost three years before the first Buran flight - if it was going to affect their political will, why would it have affected the second flight and not the first?
--
JRF

Yeah. That's what I thought. Did the USAF pull out of the Shuttle program immediately after Challenger, or a few years later, which would help explain the lack of will for the Soviets to continue.

Great question.  Vandenburg AFB in California was supposed to be the western launch facility for the manned military Shuttle missions (polar orbits), but after the Challenger disaster all construction at that facility was halted.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/25/2006 07:23 AM
Quote
SRBseparama - 25/10/2006  5:06 AM
Yeah. That's what I thought. Did the USAF pull out of the Shuttle program immediately after Challenger, or a few years later, which would help explain the lack of will for the Soviets to continue.

The Soviet started the Buran-Energia project in the mid 1970s but for some reason they started it for scratch (instead of reusing technologie as they used to do), so the development take long time. More over they wanted it just because the american had one, their was no other reasons (they thought that the argument of cheap launch argued by the NASA was not realistic, so they thought their was another reason for the American to developp their shuttle). May be the Buran project was slow down by the accident of Challenger (no shuttle -> no need of Buran), but I didn't read anything like that. I think the Buran project was really ambitious and took a very long time to developp because of the lots of technical additions in comparison of the American Shuttle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 10/25/2006 11:22 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 25/10/2006  12:49 AM

Quote
SRBseparama - 24/10/2006  10:06 PM

Quote
Jorge - 24/10/2006  8:23 PM

Quote
Sphereion - 24/10/2006  4:31 PM

Well once Challenger happened, the Soviets would have had no political will, correct?

Huh? Challenger was almost three years before the first Buran flight - if it was going to affect their political will, why would it have affected the second flight and not the first?
--
JRF

Yeah. That's what I thought. Did the USAF pull out of the Shuttle program immediately after Challenger, or a few years later, which would help explain the lack of will for the Soviets to continue.

Great question.  Vandenburg AFB in California was supposed to be the western launch facility for the manned military Shuttle missions (polar orbits), but after the Challenger disaster all construction at that facility was halted.

First, a nit.   VandenbErg

 It was some time in 88 that the DOD got off the shuttle.  It was near the same time with the removal of commercial spacecraft from the shuttle.  Last DOD STS flight was STS-53 in Dec 92.  SLC-6 was mothballed in 87.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/26/2006 02:53 AM
In case there's potential of this moving away from Buran, I reccomend people use this: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/search/query.asp

And type in Vandenberg as the search option, as we've got a load of good threads on that.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/03/2006 05:23 PM
More on Buran, alternate vehicles, including the top mount craft for VULKAN/Energiya:

http://www.buran.ru/htm/history.htm  ***Updated!
http://www.buran.ru/htm/38-3.htm#vulkan
http://www.buran.ru/htm/vulkan.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/str124.htm

Energiya
http://www.buran.ru/htm/rocket.htm

Spiral
http://www.buran.ru/htm/spiral_5.htm

Buran--the line up (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-92.htm

N-1
http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud%2019.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 11/04/2006 02:50 AM
Quote
publiusr - 3/11/2006  12:06 PM

More on Buran, alternate vehicles, including the top mount craft for VULKAN/Energiya:

http://www.buran.ru/htm/history.htm  ***Updated!
http://www.buran.ru/htm/38-3.htm#vulkan
http://www.buran.ru/htm/vulkan.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/str124.htm

Energiya
http://www.buran.ru/htm/rocket.htm

Spiral
http://www.buran.ru/htm/spiral_5.htm

Buran--the line up (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-92.htm

N-1
http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud%2019.htm

Wow, thanks for those links!  Looks like I'm gonna have to bookmark all of them.  Are they also presented in English?  If not, this will give me a good excuse to take a crash course in Russian so I can read those websites!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Super George on 11/07/2006 08:21 PM
Some of those alternate vehicles are pretty out there!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/17/2006 06:39 PM
Quite so. More on the large Energiya Vulkan launched craft:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/mtkva.htm

"The 200 tonne vehicle had over twice the shuttle's mass and nearly three times the shuttle's payload."


Saucer shaped concepts:
From Popular Mechanics http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/naattocv.htm
Heavy Lift Saucer http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/roost.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 11/18/2006 01:45 PM

In trying to know the fate of the Buran shuttle after the colapse of the MIK roof, I've tried through several sources to know what happen to the wreckage. One of my sources recently sent me the following email:

"The decision on recycling a Soviet Buran space shuttle is accepted, which first and last time flied to space. Therefore we have not received the sanction to his survey in the future."

 Does this makes any sense?

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 11/18/2006 05:26 PM
Quote
Satori - 18/11/2006  8:28 AM

In trying to know the fate of the Buran shuttle after the colapse of the MIK roof, I've tried through several sources to know what happen to the wreckage. One of my sources recently sent me the following email:

"The decision on recycling a Soviet Buran space shuttle is accepted, which first and last time flied to space. Therefore we have not received the sanction to his survey in the future."

 Does this makes any sense?


One of my model rocketeer friend who visited Russia for the World Spacemodeling Championship toured the Russian
launch/assembly facilities just a couple of months ago and told me that the hardwares where that building roof collasped is pretty much left as is when/where it happened.  The Buran/Russian Space Shuttle flew just once, and
has made its last flight on that one (and only) flight.  There simply isn't the funds to fly this hardware anymore (for now).  It's doubtful that the Russian Space Agency or other organizations within Russia would have the resources to
restore the Russian Shuttles to a flight ready status in the future (it's a shame; I'd for one would like to see them
operational!!).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 11/18/2006 05:27 PM
Quote
Satori - 18/11/2006  3:28 PM

In trying to know the fate of the Buran shuttle after the colapse of the MIK roof, I've tried through several sources to know what happen to the wreckage. One of my sources recently sent me the following email:

"The decision on recycling a Soviet Buran space shuttle is accepted, which first and last time flied to space. Therefore we have not received the sanction to his survey in the future."

Does this makes any sense?


Yes it was planed to dismantle the shuttle to validate the work and to check if there was no damage inside the structure (normal procedure). But because of the Bourget air show of 1989 they didn't dismantle it to show it to the world (propagande inside :) ).

And when it came back from France it was still the begining of the end for the USSR and this astronomical project so they didn't take it down. Moreover, they started the Energia M project (a new launcher, more powerfull and economic than Buran), so I thing this is one of the reason they paused the Buran-Energia system to put their money in a real launcher.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 11/18/2006 08:33 PM
Quote
dwmzmm - 18/11/2006  12:09 PM

One of my model rocketeer friend who visited Russia for the World Spacemodeling Championship toured the Russian
launch/assembly facilities just a couple of months ago and told me that the hardwares where that building roof collasped is pretty much left as is when/where it happened.  The Buran/Russian Space Shuttle flew just once, and
has made its last flight on that one (and only) flight.  There simply isn't the funds to fly this hardware anymore (for now).  It's doubtful that the Russian Space Agency or other organizations within Russia would have the resources to
restore the Russian Shuttles to a flight ready status in the future (it's a shame; I'd for one would like to see them
operational!!).

I don't believe that the remains of Buran are inside the MIK. If you look at the Google Earth pictures you don't see any pieces inside. Also, when I was at Baykonur last March they didn't told me that the Buran was still inside. If fact they didn't told me where it was...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 11/19/2006 03:32 AM
Quote
Satori - 18/11/2006  3:16 PM

I don't believe that the remains of Buran are inside the MIK. If you look at the Google Earth pictures you don't see any pieces inside. Also, when I was at Baykonur last March they didn't told me that the Buran was still inside. If fact they didn't told me where it was...

Yes, you're probably right.  Looking at the pics of the collapsed mess on one of the websites, there doesn't appear to be much of the Shuttle that could be recovered as usable.  It still pains me to look at those pics and wonder what
could have been had this program been able to move forward...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Luca on 11/25/2006 12:07 AM
Yep, looking at the remains of Buran is a very painful experience. Hopefully, thanks to such lovely websites as the brand new buran.fr or astronautix.com, Buran will live on, at least in people minds (and dreams and sand-castles-in-space!)

However, I really can't understand how it's possible that the orbiter was left rusting in a cracky hangar: don't you have tech museums in Russia??? The dreadful (for russian economy) early 90s are over: the ever-rising prices of oil, gas and other raw materials are getting Russia back to "superpower" status, so there was really no money at all for giving Buran a decorous "retirement"??? Sounds strange. Maybe the reason for the tragic demise of Buran is GREED: I think they wanted rich Indiana Jones wanna-be playing (and spending) around in Baikonour, between scorpions, snakes and ruined space orbiters! Or did they want to cash-in selling Buran tile by tile on E-Bay ?!?!?

Finally, the sell of the orbiters to Kazachstan sounds like a terrible joke. Can't you hear Borat saying "hey you people that's Pitchka, my own space plane. It's nice... I like!" Aaaahhhhh!!!!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Seattle Dave on 11/25/2006 12:18 AM
Quote
Luca - 24/11/2006  6:50 PM

Finally, the sell of the orbiters to Kazachstan sounds like a terrible joke. Can't you hear Borat saying "hey you people that's Pitchka, my own space plane. It's nice... I like!" Aaaahhhhh!!!!

"Wow wa wee wa!"  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 11/25/2006 10:42 AM
Yes all the shuttles located in the Kazakhstan during the fall of the USSR were/are property of it. So the russia would have buy them a second time to put them in a museum. But you know the russians are not really proud of this project (not on the technical way because its a huge achievement), it remember them that they spend billions of roubles for nothing. They put a test mock-up in the gorky park (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-tva.php) to show the project to the people, but it doesn't work so good. During the 90's the russian economy was so disastrous that they have other things to think about before saving a space shuttle. At the begining of the millenium their were rumors of refunding the project wich show that they were re-interested in Buran but it didn't append.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 11/25/2006 11:05 AM
Sorry, Buran/Shmuran, the project was a disaster.  Let's bury it in peace.  It was a response and a reaction to the US shuttle STS, the Russians had much more capable projects underneath (MAKs) , this hog of a resources was a predicament...  And many "insiders" voiced their opinions against this project.

It may seem I'm disrespectful of it, but I'm not.  It was a great technological achievement, but a practical failure, and better not persued.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 11/25/2006 12:39 PM
Quote
lmike - 25/11/2006  12:48 PM

Sorry, Buran/Shmuran, the project was a disaster.  Let's bury it in peace.  It was a response and a reaction to the US shuttle STS, the Russians had much more capable projects underneath (MAKs) , this hog of a resources was a predicament...  And many "insiders" voiced their opinions against this project.

Yes I agree with you, it was a disaster because they spend billions of rubles for nothing but on the technical way it is a great piece of space shuttle, but many scientists didn't want a space shuttle and wrote the famous letter to Gorbatchev to cancel the project. The russians wanted the Buran just to have a shuttle like the American and keep the race going on, it was planned only for that.

But even if the reason was just military we can't say this shuttle is just full of crap. (In my opinion)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 11/26/2006 01:54 AM
buran.fr, Sorry, upon reflection, I may have come a bit strong with my post.  It just saddens me that more reasonable projects may have been discarded for a politically motivated program which consumed enormous amount of resources (just creating a hydrogen infrastructure for the RD-120s was hugely expensive, the parallel packet staging scheme, the transporters/lifters, ...)  It was certainly not crap, and the engineering is amazing, it just had, well, an unclear purpose.  Although, the LV Energia could certainly be useful if there were the payloads of that size.

Don't get me wrong, its very interesting to look at it in retrospect and I indeed appreciate your efforts to translate a lot of info from that excellent site (automatic translators are not very reliable;)  )  which I visit regularly.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 11/26/2006 02:45 AM
Seems to me that the Buran could have been leased/purchased by NASA to be used in some capacity; didn't they reach an agreement for NASA to purchase the TU-144LL supersonic aircraft for flight testing just a few years ago?   Last I heard was this TU-144LL was in storage somewhere in the USA...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 11/26/2006 03:05 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 25/11/2006  9:28 PM

Seems to me that the Buran could have been leased/purchased by NASA to be used in some capacity; didn't they reach an agreement for NASA to purchase the TU-144LL supersonic aircraft for flight testing just a few years ago?   Last I heard was this TU-144LL was in storage somewhere in the USA...

Quick correction:  The Tu-144LL is in storage in Russia.  Sorry about that.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 11/26/2006 08:51 AM
Quote
lmike - 26/11/2006  3:37 AM
Don't get me wrong, its very interesting to look at it in retrospect and I indeed appreciate your efforts to translate a lot of info from that excellent site (automatic translators are not very reliable;)  )  which I visit regularly.

No problem.  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Luca on 11/26/2006 11:58 AM
I used to think that the Russians were pretty much proud of the Buran project.... but actually I was wrong   :) I don't remember where but sometime ago (I had forgot it!) I read that Buran was one of the first "victims" (in broad sense: nothing against Gorbachev, one of the greatest politicians of the XX century) of Glasnost and Perestrojka: "if we can't even buy meat - people complained - why do we need a Space Shuttle?"
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: otisbow on 11/26/2006 02:19 PM
I have a 15 min. Beta tape of live coverage of the Buran flight.  This recording shows the first film of the launch as shown on Soviet TV.    A reporter interviews people in mission control and there is live pictures of the Earth on the screen in the background from Buran.   It is recorded on NTAS.  I would like to show this tape to you-all, but done know how to put it on this thread.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 11/26/2006 04:29 PM
Quote
otisbow - 26/11/2006  4:02 PM

I have a 15 min. Beta tape of live coverage of the Buran flight.  This recording shows the first film of the launch as shown on Soviet TV.    A reporter interviews people in mission control and there is live pictures of the Earth on the screen in the background from Buran.   It is recorded on NTAS.  I would like to show this tape to you-all, but done know how to put it on this thread.

If you have it in .mpg or .avi (informatic file) I can host it on my website. Otherwise I don't have a video recorder, so I can't do anything more.  :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/06/2006 07:50 AM
I've update my website to put articles on Vulkan and Energia M launchers wich are part of the Energia familly. But there is not many informations about them because Vulkan stayed on the blueprints and only a mock-up of Energia M was built.

http://www.buran-energia.com/energia/famille-desc.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Max Q on 12/07/2006 02:20 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 6/12/2006  2:33 AM

I've update my website to put articles on Vulkan and Energia M launchers wich are part of the Energia familly. But there is not many informations about them because Vulkan stayed on the blueprints and only a mock-up of Energia M was built.

http://www.buran-energia.com/energia/famille-desc.php

Vulkan is wild!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 12/08/2006 02:49 AM
Has the Vulkan been flown at all?  Looks like a really cool launch vehicle!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/08/2006 07:38 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 8/12/2006  4:32 AM

Has the Vulkan been flown at all?  Looks like a really cool launch vehicle!

No the Vulkan did not flew, because they changed the work specifications to take into account the Buran Shuttle, so they created the Energia LV and let the Vulkan on blueprints.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/19/2006 09:47 PM
Paper Model
http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery11/dh_112106_buran.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 12/20/2006 03:15 AM
That's a great model. Such a shame these vehicles are no more.....the first stage was unstoppable.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy USA on 12/22/2006 12:17 AM
With all the talk about White Sands, where was Buran's landing strip? Concrete?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/22/2006 08:40 AM
Here is the Buran's landing strip and it is concrete:
http://maps.google.com/?q=Russia&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=15&ll=46.054828,63.258548&spn=0.021324,0.040255&t=k

The landing strip was polished with diamands to minimize the Z delta.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/22/2006 07:25 PM
Such loving work. I always thought more of Glushko than Korolov.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 12/22/2006 07:39 PM
Glushko was a back stabber and caused the down fall of RSC-E by developing Buran
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/22/2006 08:33 PM
IIRC he wasn't wild about an actual shuttle clone. His RLA series were more conventional rockets if you go by Mark Wade.

 He didn't care much for kerolox at first, but he got over his love for hypergolics with the amount of work done with RD-170. I seem to remember reading how Glushko didn't want to work on hydrogen as much as Korolov.

Glushko might actually have done more for Soviet space without Korolov.

I always thought it was Chelomei who whas wild about spaceplanes--what with his background in cruise missiles and all--at least that's how I read it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/22/2006 08:45 PM
In fact Glushko hated the LOX fuel, he'd prefere used his one, and cause many problems to Korolev about the N-1. Moreover, Glushko sent Korolev to the gulag during the Stalinian purges.
But for a reason I don't know yet he turned back and choose the LOX fuel for Energia LV.

Personnaly I think the differences about the technology they used is more due to the hate they have to each other, rather than a scientific reason.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 12/22/2006 08:54 PM
Quote
publiusr - 22/12/2006  4:16 PM
Glushko might actually have done more for Soviet space without Korolov.
.

That is completely outlandish and wrong.  Glushko only knew rocket engines.  Korolov was a system engineer.  He led teams that built spacecraft, manned spacecraft, upperstages, launch vehicles, ICBM's, IRBM's, reconsats, planetary spacecraft, etc.  

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/22/2006 09:02 PM
He did have a relationship with Yangel and Chelomei. Soviet spaceflight did survive Korolov's death. Glushko had a different idea for its direction. Not that Korolov wasn't needed in the early stages.

The fight between the two men was most distressing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 12/22/2006 10:09 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 22/12/2006  3:23 AM

Here is the Buran's landing strip and it is concrete:
http://maps.google.com/?q=Russia&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=15&ll=46.054828,63.258548&spn=0.021324,0.040255&t=k

The landing strip was polished with diamands to minimize the Z delta.

Is that landing strip being used today?  Zooming in at the image, I couldn't see any aircraft(s) anywhere on the tarmac.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/22/2006 10:15 PM
This landing strip was used for Buran and when Mriya (an-225) had to carry something. It is still used today for important payload, but not as often as the usual Leninsk airport.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mr Verkhoturov on 12/25/2006 04:52 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 22/12/2006  4:58 PM

This landing strip was used for Buran and when Mriya (an-225) had to carry something. It is still used today for important payload, but not as often as the usual Leninsk airport.

That is correct.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 01/05/2007 07:12 PM
How much support is there for Angara 100 or an Energiya renewal? I'd love to see it--Energiya M as an Ariane 5 replacement if nothing else.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 01/05/2007 07:18 PM
Quote
publiusr - 5/1/2007  2:55 PM

How much support is there for Angara 100 or an Energiya renewal? I'd love to see it--Energiya M as an Ariane 5 replacement if nothing else.

Energia M was a kludge, using parts not meant to go together.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/05/2007 07:43 PM
Quote
publiusr - 5/1/2007  8:55 PM

How much support is there for Angara 100 or an Energiya renewal? I'd love to see it--Energiya M as an Ariane 5 replacement if nothing else.

Energia will no longer exists because it's not fully russian, and the military don't want that, that's why they had to developped a new launcher: Angara, which is 100% russian.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/05/2007 07:48 PM
Quote
Jim - 5/1/2007  9:01 PM

Energia M was a kludge, using parts not meant to go together.

Energia M should have been used to replace  the Proton launcher, but because of the fall of the USSR they stop it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2007 06:59 AM
Two stunning videos (in Russian) from http://www.spacevideo.ru/

Quote
Vostok7 - 16/1/2007  12:07 AM

Buran. Ok.

By the way, look at this http://www.spacevideo.ru/films/2/f2_4_en.htm Both of them are in Russian but they are not bad (aspecially the 2nd), a lot of interesting frames.


For more details about Ivan's great site, head to this thread on the video section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6169&start=1
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/16/2007 11:41 AM
I just download the videos and take a quick look, it looks great.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/19/2007 05:07 PM
I remember reading an article in the mid 1990s in my local newspaper which reported that Russia offered the Buran system to Europe and China but both rejected the offer. I think Hermes was still on the drawing board at that time.  Does anyone have more insight into this?

Stefan :)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/19/2007 05:23 PM
The only thing I know is that they were looking for funding so they asked for partnerships, but nobody answered.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/19/2007 05:41 PM
I think this partnership could have been favourable for Europe and Russia. But as always funding for manned spaceflight is very low in Europe.
Around 2000/2001 I read in several german aviation mags that Russia intended to restart the Buran program (as also stated in this thread earlier). Could have been a good chance for ESA to join them (at the time I was very excited about the potential restart of Buran).
Was this restart seriously discussed in Russia or was it just good public relations to gain some media attention?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nathan.moeller on 01/19/2007 11:12 PM
Great video.  I'm surprised I'd never seen this before.  I remember reading a long time ago that Buran is Russian for "snowstorm."  Is that correct?  I had no idea the damage was so devastating.  Very tragic.  I'm so glad the U.S. Orbiters will be taken care of.  I feel sorry for those built and care for the Russian vehicles and must watch them rust and gather cobwebs.  That alone is tragic.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/20/2007 08:20 AM
Yes Buran means Snowstorm in English, it's also the name of a wind which blow in east Asia, in Kazakhstan. Some pictures of the tragedy: http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-fin.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/20/2007 09:21 AM
This pictures make me feel sad! How is the current condition of the second orbiter OK-1.02? Is it stored inside or outside (there are conflicting reports in the media)? How old are the most recent pictures of this second orbiter?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/20/2007 10:13 AM
I don't have any dates for the pictures of 1.02, the ones with Energia are may be from 1989 when it was moved for tests. But for the picture when we see it complete I don't know. Officialy it is stored now but no more informations are avalaible.
http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-102.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/20/2007 12:00 PM
I hope this orbiter is stored in good condition, it should be preserved!
Two years ago the Technik Museum Sinsheim in Germany bought the test model OK-GLI as well as the unfinished third orbiter OK-2.01 (at least this was announced in the media), but since then nothing happened ( I visited this museum last year but unfortunately no Buran). Did this deal fell through?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/20/2007 12:37 PM
Due to legal reason it still in Barhein, look in the section "Built models" of my website, it is explained. :-)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/20/2007 01:16 PM
Ok, thank you very much, Your site is really great - the best photos of Buran in the internet.
Do you know if it is still planned to be brought to the Technik museum'?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/20/2007 01:30 PM
Quote
stefan1138 - 20/1/2007  3:16 PM

Ok, thank you very much, Your site is really great - the best photos of Buran in the internet.

Thank you.  ;)

Quote
stefan1138 - 20/1/2007  3:16 PM
Do you know if it is still planned to be brought to the Technik museum'?

Stefan :)

Yes, it is still planned but don't know when.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/20/2007 01:58 PM
I just sent an e-mail to the museum via the contact template on their homepage, I asked them about the latest status of OK-GLI.
I hope that I receive an answer from them... I really want to see it at the Technik Museum because it is only 40 minutes away from my home.

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/22/2007 12:38 PM
I just want to let you know that I received an e-mail from the Technik Museaum today.
They wrote that they are still working on the legal problems but they hope to be able to move OK-GLI from Bahrain to Sinsheim in the spring or summer of this year.

It would be nice to see it in the museum this summer!

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/22/2007 12:41 PM
ok, thank you for the news.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: sammie on 01/22/2007 12:45 PM
That would be great, the Technik museum has an unique collection of air and space craft, absolut highlights such as the An-22 and Tu-144 are not often seen in these Regions. Have very fond memories of that particular An-22 visiting my home airport, what a beast.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rob in KC on 01/22/2007 04:05 PM
Quote
stefan1138 - 22/1/2007  7:38 AM

I just want to let you know that I received an e-mail from the Technik Museaum today.
They wrote that they are still working on the legal problems but they hope to be able to move OK-GLI from Bahrain to Sinsheim in the spring or summer of this year.

It would be nice to see it in the museum this summer!

Stefan :)

Very good news.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Edgecrusher on 01/24/2007 02:04 PM
Just a quick question: can any of you recommend a good book about Buran? Is there even such a thing? I'm not really concerned about the language of the book, it doesn't need to be English...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/24/2007 02:24 PM
Here is a book which seems good :http://www.maxuta.com/mode.2810-id.3010

In general this site has interesting books on Buran and Energia.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Edgecrusher on 01/24/2007 02:29 PM
Thanks! Unfortunately, the book doesn't seem to be available at the moment...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/26/2007 04:29 PM
I have another question, when has the MAKS Project been cancelled? Or did it just die without funding?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/26/2007 05:03 PM
It was canceled due to lack of fund in the 90's. I don't have the exact date in mind.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/26/2007 05:07 PM
Ok, thank you!

MAKS could have been a very promising system!

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/26/2007 05:13 PM
Yes it could have been a very interesting launch platform (and this time an original one for the Soviets). But the fall of the USSR cut the funds. Moreover it has the same drawback than Buran and the space shuttle, which is: for lot of launchs we don't need a shuttle. A simple launcher (Proton,...) for satellite and a Soyuz for manned missions is enough.


I will had in few days a very interesting document about MAKS on my site, I think it could interest lot of people here. I will post a response when it's done.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/26/2007 05:58 PM
Looking forward to the info on your site!

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sunhillow on 01/27/2007 09:03 AM
Vassili, your site has become the most valuable place to get information about soviet space technology. Much better than Babelfish translations of russian sites :)
Thank you very much for this!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/30/2007 04:48 PM
Quote
Sunhillow - 27/1/2007  11:03 AM

Vassili, your site has become the most valuable place to get information about soviet space technology. Much better than Babelfish translations of russian sites :)
Thank you very much for this!

Thank you very much  ;)

Has I said before, I put online an interesting document from the NPO Molniya company, which is the technical documentation of Buran, but it also speak about MAKS which is less known. This document gives lots of details about the technical choices and problems faced by the engineers.

Buran doc:
http://www.buran-energia.com/documentation/documentation-akc-intro.php

MAKS doc:
http://www.buran-energia.com/documentation/documentation-akc-SPIRAL.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 01/30/2007 04:57 PM
Wow, I just had a short look on these docs! Really impressive! Probably the most comprehensive info on the Program in English!

Great work!

Stefan :)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jamie Young on 01/31/2007 05:05 AM
I'm glad these vehicles are not forgotten. Very important.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 02/01/2007 01:34 AM
Quote
Jamie Young - 30/1/2007  12:05 AM

I'm glad these vehicles are not forgotten. Very important.

Yeah. Good use of the net.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/02/2007 10:23 PM
At least the Dream Chaser stack will resemble Energiya Buran.

I wonder when http://www.k26.com/buran will be updated...
http://www.maxuta.com/mode.2810-id.3010
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Thomas ESA on 02/03/2007 03:57 PM
Both those images are of Buran, not Dreamchaser?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/03/2007 08:44 PM
They would look similar--my bad.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/03/2007 08:50 PM
Quote
Thomas ESA - 3/2/2007  5:57 PM

Both those images are of Buran, not Dreamchaser?

Yes those are about Buran.


Quote
publiusr - 3/2/2007 10:44 PM

They would look similar--my bad.

At least Dream Chaser look like a BOR lifting body, not Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/05/2007 10:57 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 3/2/2007  10:50 PM


Quote
publiusr - 3/2/2007 10:44 PM

They would look similar--my bad.

At least Dream Chaser look like a BOR lifting body, not Buran.

BOR is a mock-up of the SPIRAL (EPOS) project.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/07/2007 08:15 PM
It will be side launched--the Dream chaser. The first Dream Chaser iteration looked rather like Buran--or X-34 rather.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/07/2007 08:40 PM
Quote
publiusr - 7/2/2007  10:15 PM

It will be side launched--the Dream chaser. The first Dream Chaser iteration looked rather like Buran--or X-34 rather.

Do you have a picture of this first version of Dream Chaser?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/07/2007 08:57 PM
Here we go...
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/879989c49db84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

Rather like:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/b171bb3e575bc010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/3.html
But the above concept is suborbital only. It has a conservative design. My shuttle II would be a side mount version of this craft--but with the jets above the wing near some fuel cell radiators--in order to keep warm

A metal wing Buran with the above look is about as good as a Shuttle II will get. Smaller windows--if any, however.

Now Space Dev has gone to this fugly lifting body...
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/b171bb3e575bc010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/4.html
http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/templates/subpage2_article.php?pid=542

But it also is--in effect--a mini Energiya Buran in terms of its mounting choice.

Other lifting bodies:
http://www.buran.ru/htm/history.htm (a giant Buran Lifting body concept near bottom)

http://www.buran.ru/htm/cliper.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya.htm

I love the 'winking ' Buran here at bottom

http://www.buran.ru/htm/guest.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/anabst.htm
http://www.buran.ru/htm/rnvid.htm


The best page
http://www.buran.ru/htm/family.htm




Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/07/2007 09:12 PM
Wahou they turned their design 180° back, From a shuttle to a lifting body. But to my opinion the original design of this shuttle is more like the HOTOL than the Buran, because it has a long body and the delta wing isn't going to the rear, but HOTOL had a double twin tail.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/07/2007 09:19 PM
I think they put the tail on the nose at one point in time. I would suggest the book SPACEFLIGHT IN THE ERA OF AEROSPACEPLANES by Russ. Hannigan.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/08/2007 06:50 AM
Yes HOTOL had different design stages.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 02/08/2007 03:14 PM
The first SpaceDev version looks very similiar to the Space Shuttle. Has this been dropped completely? I thought they would use the lifting body design only for suborbital flight.

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 02/10/2007 06:32 PM
Its actually a tad closer to the X-34, but with very much the same wing. They abandoned that altogether--sadly. I hope I am mistaken. I really don't like that ugly lifting body.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rob in KC on 02/20/2007 01:40 AM
Quote
publiusr - 10/2/2007  1:32 PM
I really don't like that ugly lifting body.

Not as ugly as a capsule.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/20/2007 06:59 AM
lol
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 02/26/2007 05:09 PM
Good (possibly old) news!... :)

In January 2007 on Baikonur cosmodrome the mock-up 4MT (OK-ML1) of Buran spacecraft was transported from this location (near the Assembly-Testing Building on area 254; image from there (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_089/pages/Img_019.html))...

[img=http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_089/images/Img_019.jpg]

...to this location (supervised parking (!!!) near Baikonur museum on area 2; image from there (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=193694#193694))... :)

[img=http://r.foto.radikal.ru/0702/3d98a0a00225.jpg]
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/26/2007 05:14 PM
Ok, thank you for the news I will update my website with this.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 02/26/2007 05:57 PM
Was it possible for tourists to enter the inside (as hinted by the photo)?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/26/2007 07:37 PM
That could be good news. Hope they are going to look after her.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Adams on 02/26/2007 08:37 PM
Quote
publiusr - 7/2/2007  4:19 PM

I think they put the tail on the nose at one point in time. I would suggest the book SPACEFLIGHT IN THE ERA OF AEROSPACEPLANES by Russ. Hannigan.

Any idea where I can get that book from?

Thanks

Paul
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: C5C6 on 02/27/2007 11:23 AM
was there any idea taken from buran-energia applied in the shuttle program?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/27/2007 11:30 AM
Not at all. The main differences are in the automatisation flight and the security procedure of Buran which are not appliable to the Shuttle. Because the shuttle must be piloted by men, and about the security, because the shuttle can't fly by itself. Moreover, their is a political dimension which is that taking ideas from Buran-Energia would lead NASA to tell that they have made mistakes on some points (which is hard to accept, even if the cold war is ended).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 02/27/2007 05:16 PM
I think it's a disgrace they've allowed so much deterioation already.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 02/27/2007 05:54 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 27/2/2007  7:30 AM

Not at all. The main differences are in the automatisation flight and the security procedure of Buran which are not appliable to the Shuttle. Because the shuttle must be piloted by men, and about the security, because the shuttle can't fly by itself. Moreover, their is a political dimension which is that taking ideas from Buran-Energia would lead NASA to tell that they have made mistakes on some points (which is hard to accept, even if the cold war is ended).

Not quite so.  The shuttle could have flown unmanned if needed.  The Buran couldn't have flown manned on the first flight since the crew displays and life support systems were installed

Also the Buran wasn't perfect either.  According to some reports, it was too badly damaged to fly again
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/27/2007 06:10 PM
Quote
Jim - 27/2/2007  7:54 PM


Not quite so.  The shuttle could have flown unmanned if needed.  The Buran couldn't have flown manned on the first flight since the crew displays and life support systems were installed

Also the Buran wasn't perfect either.  According to some reports, it was too badly damaged to fly again

The US Shuttle wasn't made (at the start) to be piloted by a computer, and now it is still not designed too. By unmanned you think by radio pilot or totally piloted by an on-board computer ( I'm sure the US shuttle is not designed for the second solution).

Yes Buran was not perfect for many details; and you're right it suffers during the descend. But I'm still amazed by the work they achieved for making a totally unmanned and more secure vessel.
http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-secu.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: svenge on 02/27/2007 11:26 PM
Not to sound silly, but it would be interesting to imagine the Shuttle vs. Buran scenarios possible if they were both in orbit at the same time, especially with the Cold War backdrop...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Carl G on 02/28/2007 02:34 AM
"to this location (supervised parking (!!!) near Baikonur museum on area 2"

Hang on, so Baikonur has a museum, but there's no Buran's inside??
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 02/28/2007 05:00 AM
NASA was looking at flying the shuttle unmanned (computer controlled) for the first flight.  Since NASA decided not to fly it unmanned, they stopped the few mods to enable it.

What do you mean more "secure vessel".  If you mean safer, then I would have to disagree and there is no way to prove it
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lmike on 02/28/2007 06:22 AM
I really don’t want to put these two systems ‘head to head’, they are both unique and interesting. But just to comment on the latest question, AFAIK, the manual control in the STS kicks in 'just' for the landing approach, extending a sensor probe (relative speed?), and extending the landing gear. Even on the final landing approach it's mostly driven by the computer (computerS actually, there are 4 "voting" systems that control the actuators) Of course, no human could control the orbiter through the de-orbit interface/plasma/early descent phase. AFAIK, the pilot (in the STS) only takes over at some altitude to control the landing/gliding approach. I just read up on the computer system on the shuttle and it's amazing. It does seem that the current operating landing mode is more due to politics ("we need a human piloting the bird down the runway") rather than technical issues.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/28/2007 06:25 AM
Quote
Jim - 28/2/2007  7:00 AM

NASA was looking at flying the shuttle unmanned (computer controlled) for the first flight.  Since NASA decided not to fly it unmanned, they stopped the few mods to enable it.

What do you mean more "secure vessel".  If you mean safer, then I would have to disagree and there is no way to prove it

Yes I meant safer, (english is not my native tongue, so some times I switch words).

As it is written upper it is difficult to compare those 2 orbiters because Buran flow just one time, so we can only speak about the specifications for things which had not been implemented / tested in the first flight.

But about the safety you have to admit that the US shuttle has no such procedure to avoid the lost of the crew than Buran had:

http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-secu-traject.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: AnlaShok on 02/28/2007 09:47 AM
When did the Shuttles get drag parachutes? Didn't the Shuttles have ejection seats on test flights? Of course both are common in aircrafts.

Naturally Buran had improved charactheristics, since it was so much newer (1.st manned flight in 1981 vs. planned in 1994). But the Shuttle has more reusability, as only the tank is discarded.

According to most sources Buran was not very seriously damaged on the only flight.

There would have been no point to use the Shuttle unmanned, since human spaceflight became the main purpose for the Shuttle. Only after STS-107 an unmanned Shuttle for building the ISS would have been useful, but not for Hubble servicing. On the other hand commercial satellite launches on an unmanned Shuttle or Buran might even be economical, if three satellites are launched (like on STS-41D), but since it isn't allowed for the Shuttle, and Buran isn't available... Probably an Energia-2 would have been better anyway...

Why doesn't ISS have (or Mir didn't get) the Buran's remote manipulator arm? Canadarm is so useful, so why isn't the "Russarm" used?

By the way, buran-energia.com is excellent, as is this site!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 02/28/2007 12:55 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 28/2/2007  2:25 AM

Yes I meant safer, (english is not my native tongue, so some times I switch words).

As it is written upper it is difficult to compare those 2 orbiters because Buran flow just one time, so we can only speak about the specifications for things which had not been implemented / tested in the first flight.

But about the safety you have to admit that the US shuttle has no such procedure to avoid the lost of the crew than Buran had:

http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-secu-traject.php

Now that is totally wrong

The Shuttle has had those same "procedures" since the first flight.    The shuttle calls them "Abort  trajectories".  The aborts cover the different times in the flight.

The main ones are:

1.  RTLS- Return To Launch Site.
2.  TAL - Trans oceanic Abort Landing
3.  AOA - Abort Once Around
4.  ATO - Abort to Orbit

It looks like Buran copied them exactly.

Also The Columbia had ejection seats for the first 4 flights
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/28/2007 01:11 PM
Quote
Jim - 28/2/2007  2:55 PM


Now that is totally wrong

The Shuttle has had those same "procedures" since the first flight.    The shuttle calls them "Abort  trajectories".  The aborts cover the different times in the flight.

The main ones are:

1.  RTLS- Return To Launch Site.
2.  TAL - Trans oceanic Abort Landing
3.  AOA - Abort Once Around
4.  ATO - Abort to Orbit

It looks like Buran copied them exactly.

Also The Columbia had ejection seats for the first 4 flights

I'm not a US shuttle specialist and I've read less document about it than about Buran, but I never heard something like that. So I have a question why those systems didn't function for challenger?
I'm curious about those safety systems can you give me a link?

To finish, because the soviets ingeneers implemented safety system is not a reason to say the copied the US shuttle, I think this is a quick shortcut. On all cars their are safety systems like breaks and nobody says they copied "Amédée Bollée" (first steam car).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 02/28/2007 01:20 PM
buran.fr: Those are NOT systems! They're abort MODES!

RTLS: Getting back to the launch site fast(25 mins)
TAL: Next after RTLS(35 mins)
AOA: Aborting the mission prior to completing one orbit
ATO: Aborting into lower than planned orbit and assessing from there
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 02/28/2007 01:41 PM
My apologize about this mistake, I'll try to make some research before posting something about the US shuttle (to avoid the Zeus's lightning bolt ;) ). But I would say that Buran had an advantage on the US shuttle because all those decisions are made by a computer (very quickly) whereas it is made by the control center then relayed to the on-board commander (for the US shuttle).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 02/28/2007 02:05 PM
No difference. Just see STS-51F for an example(ATO declared due lost center engine). Just a few seconds after the loss the abort was initiated by the CDR.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 03/02/2007 07:04 PM
Quote
Carl G - 28/2/2007  6:34 AM

Hang on, so Baikonur has a museum, but there's no Buran's inside?

Yes, because it is small museum... See here (http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2103) photos from this museum...

Two images (below) of 4MT (OK-ML1) mock-up's transportation at the second half of January 2007 are from Roskosmos website (http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2104)...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 03/02/2007 07:17 PM
Sorry, bit off topic, but is Baikonur open for visiting tourists a la KSC (though probably on a much smaller scale)?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/02/2007 07:56 PM
Quote
Rob in KC - 19/2/2007  8:40 PM

Quote
publiusr - 10/2/2007  1:32 PM
I really don't like that ugly lifting body.

Not as ugly as a capsule.

Hey! Gemini was lovely! So was Buran!

X-38 on the other hand looks like a certain scatological emanation from South Park.

STS had better fit & finish--but the Modular Energiya Buran was the better concept. EELV class strap-ons, simpler orbiter with a heavy-lifter core for more rapid station build-up/moonship modules. The total package.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/02/2007 07:58 PM
Quote
Paul Adams - 26/2/2007  3:37 PM

Quote
publiusr - 7/2/2007  4:19 PM

I think they put the tail on the nose at one point in time. I would suggest the book SPACEFLIGHT IN THE ERA OF AEROSPACEPLANES by Russ. Hannigan.

Any idea where I can get that book from?

Thanks

Paul

Try here:

http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?wtit=SPACEFLIGHT%20IN%20the%20ERA%20OF%20Aero%2DSpace%20Planes&wtit1=SPACEFLIGHT%20IN%20THE%20ERA%20OF%20AEROSPACEPLANES&browse=0&spell=1&cm_re=search*0results*did_you

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/02/2007 08:59 PM
Here is the explication of the move:

Numerous projects were studied to use this mock-up and emphasize the heritage which it represents, but all failed because they required too important investments. In the second half of January the authorities, under the management of the first assistant Tomchuka V. R. of Baikonur, finally decided to move the mock-up towards the Bailonur’s museum because it is the cheapest solution. The outside of the shuttle will be restored, a cabin with cosmonauts’ seats will be installed there and a showroom will be fitted out in the payload bay. It is a second life for this shuttle which takes place at the time of the twentieth anniversary of the Energia’s launch (in May 17th, 1987).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2007 08:28 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 2/3/2007  9:59 PM

Here is the explication of the move:

Numerous projects were studied to use this mock-up and emphasize the heritage which it represents, but all failed because they required too important investments. In the second half of January the authorities, under the management of the first assistant Tomchuka V. R. of Baikonur, finally decided to move the mock-up towards the Bailonur’s museum because it is the cheapest solution. The outside of the shuttle will be restored, a cabin with cosmonauts’ seats will be installed there and a showroom will be fitted out in the payload bay. It is a second life for this shuttle which takes place at the time of the twentieth anniversary of the Energia’s launch (in May 17th, 1987).

Nice find with the information, and I'm glad they are recognizing the anniversary...as will we.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Adams on 03/05/2007 08:50 PM
Thank you!!

Paul
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 03/06/2007 01:30 AM
Quote
stefan1138 - 2/3/2007  2:17 PM

Sorry, bit off topic, but is Baikonur open for visiting tourists a la KSC (though probably on a much smaller scale)?

Stefan :)

Yes it is, if you want to pay for the tour! I have been there in March 2006 for the launch of Soyuz TMA-8. It's a tour that I'm planning to do again next year!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/06/2007 03:05 PM
Quote
Satori - 6/3/2007  2:30 AM

Quote
stefan1138 - 2/3/2007  2:17 PM

Sorry, bit off topic, but is Baikonur open for visiting tourists a la KSC (though probably on a much smaller scale)?

Stefan :)

Yes it is, if you want to pay for the tour! I have been there in March 2006 for the launch of Soyuz TMA-8. It's a tour that I'm planning to do again next year!

How much is the tour....I'm assuming everything is pretty cheap in that country. Wouldn't know where to start to get a flight to Baikonur though.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 03/06/2007 03:36 PM
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/3/2007  10:05 AM

Quote
Satori - 6/3/2007  2:30 AM

Quote
stefan1138 - 2/3/2007  2:17 PM

Sorry, bit off topic, but is Baikonur open for visiting tourists a la KSC (though probably on a much smaller scale)?

Stefan :)

Yes it is, if you want to pay for the tour! I have been there in March 2006 for the launch of Soyuz TMA-8. It's a tour that I'm planning to do again next year!

How much is the tour....I'm assuming everything is pretty cheap in that country. Wouldn't know where to start to get a flight to Baikonur though.

Oh! You don't need to worry with that! You only have to arrivo to Moscow because the other things are part of the tour.

My was a 7 days tour with a first night in Moscow (4 star Cosmos hotel). Second day you go from Moscow to Baykonur. In that day you visit the city of Baikonur. The third day was a visiting day to some pads (LC250 and LC1 PU-5) and buildings at the Cosmodrome (MIK-112 Bay 1 and 2 where with luck you can see some Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG, and MIK-254). Near MIK-254 was the Buran model but now is near the Museum). Also in this day I had the chance to go to the press-conference of the Soyuz TMA-8 crew and met some astronauts and cosmonauts.

Before the launch we went to another press conference with the crew fully suited and with the back-up crew. Then I went outside and watch the crew presentation to the State Comission (I was 2/3 meters away from the cosmonauts and was hable to talk with Marcos Pontes). Then I went to site 18 and wait some hours for the launch! After the launch we went to bed (how the hell was I supose to sleep after watching my first space launch!???).

Last day (sixth) visit to Baikonur Museum and Nedellin monument and then return to Moscow. Next day Moscow - Portugal flight.

The total cost for the tour was 2750 euros! (with two nights at Moscow Cosmos hotel; all the nights and meals at Baykonur; visas to get to the cosmodrome and permission to use phtographic equipment; plane travel Moscow - Baykonur - Moscow in a 30+ year old Tupolev).

There are some travel agencies that arrange this tours and I think one of them is related to Alexander Lazutkin.

At this time I'm preparing my second visit to Baykonur (maybe next year). Anyone wants to come???
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Super George on 03/06/2007 03:47 PM
I'd love to go and the tourism guy is fun!

"Hi 5! It's sexy time!"
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 03/06/2007 06:57 PM

   At this time I'm preparing my second visit to Baykonur (maybe next year). Anyone wants to come???[/QUOTE]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would definetely also want to go on such a tour. Did you book it via a travel agency or via internet? Maybe others on this site would also like to go there?

Maybe there is some chance to see the second Buran in the hangar (just dreaming)?

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/06/2007 07:04 PM
I'm interested too, we will discuss it later Satori.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: STSFan10 on 03/06/2007 09:32 PM
I would if I could afford it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Far Reach on 03/07/2007 03:43 AM
I want to do KSC before I do the Russian version ;) Good idea to get a group though. I hope you guys will take lots of pictures and videos for us all here.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 03/12/2007 01:48 AM
Wish I could come, would be a trip of a lifetime for me.  Some of our fellow model rocketeers were there this past summer to participate in the
World Spacemodeling Championships.  If I can get the permission, I'll post a link to a really well done video made that shows the highlights of this
trip...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 03/12/2007 02:25 AM
Ok, got permission from the video's owner, James Duffy, to post the links to the video.  Here's one:

http://www.rocket.aero/baikonur.html

Here's an alternate "director's commentary" video:

http://rocket.aero/baikonur.html

Be sure to view the video from start to finish.  Hope you'll enjoy it!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Ronnie on 03/14/2007 12:11 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 11/3/2007  10:25 PM

Ok, got permission from the video's owner, James Duffy, to post the links to the video.  Here's one:

http://www.rocket.aero/baikonur.html

Here's an alternate "director's commentary" video:

http://rocket.aero/baikonur.html

Be sure to view the video from start to finish.  Hope you'll enjoy it!

Good, the history of this vehicle should not be forgottten.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wubbo on 03/14/2007 09:38 PM
Quote
Satori - 6/3/2007  5:36 PM
At this time I'm preparing my second visit to Baykonur (maybe next year). Anyone wants to come???

Oh yes, I'm very interested. I almost went with a group called Friends and Partners in Space (Jennifer Green, anyone know her) back in the nineties, but lack of money made it impossible (I was a student then).

Now's a better time financially ;-)

GJ
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/15/2007 07:00 AM
Great we're growing. But to avoid closing the topic I think we should redirect the main stream of the discussion to Buran and Energia and not sidetrack about the organisation of a journey (even if it's related to Buran).

If other personns are interested by this trip, please contact Satori by MP or mail.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: E_ E_ H on 03/15/2007 06:08 PM
Is it remotely possible that Khazakstan would want to sell the two remaining orbiters back to Russia. They are getting richer by the minute at the moment... Also, could the programme be reactivated if someone had a mind to do it?

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/15/2007 06:16 PM
This orbiter OK-M, is not operationnal, it is a test mock-up (for testing the heat shield). But Ptichka which is still in Baikonur is functionnal. But nobody want to reactive the Buran project. The shuttles aren't usefull today.
The russian space agency want to create a mini shuttle (klipper), which the real alternative to big shuttles, but they lack of fund, and for the moment the project is paused.
Buran is destined to stay is museums.
Energia could be reactivated because this launcher is really powerfull and reliable, but because it is not 100% russian, they developped Angara, to replace it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jduffy on 03/15/2007 06:49 PM
All,

I've posted a series of Buran walkaround photos at:

http://web.mac.com/jduffy/iWeb/Site/Buran%20Test%20Article.html

Enjoy!

James
___________________
James Duffy
jduffy@mac.com
www.rocket.aero
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Firestarter on 03/17/2007 03:38 AM
Quote
E_ E_ H - 15/3/2007  2:08 PM

Is it remotely possible that Khazakstan would want to sell the two remaining orbiters back to Russia. They are getting richer by the minute at the moment... Also, could the programme be reactivated if someone had a mind to do it?


Khazakstan is likely to become richer than Russia when their work out how much natural resources they have. I don't think money is the issue here
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Martin FL on 03/18/2007 02:46 AM
Quote
jduffy - 15/3/2007  2:49 PM

All,

I've posted a series of Buran walkaround photos at:

http://web.mac.com/jduffy/iWeb/Site/Buran%20Test%20Article.html

Enjoy!

James
___________________
James Duffy
jduffy@mac.com
www.rocket.aero

Great pics, but a real shame about the state of the vehicle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 03/19/2007 02:02 AM
Quote
jduffy - 15/3/2007  2:49 PM

All,

I've posted a series of Buran walkaround photos at:

http://web.mac.com/jduffy/iWeb/Site/Buran%20Test%20Article.html

Enjoy!

James
___________________
James Duffy
jduffy@mac.com
www.rocket.aero

Great pics, James!  And, welcome to the NASA SpaceFlight forums!!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Ronnie on 03/20/2007 07:33 PM
Quote
jduffy - 15/3/2007  2:49 PM

All,

I've posted a series of Buran walkaround photos at:

http://web.mac.com/jduffy/iWeb/Site/Buran%20Test%20Article.html

Enjoy!

James
___________________
James Duffy
jduffy@mac.com
www.rocket.aero

Great work!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 03/22/2007 03:32 PM
Appenrently there is some work being done on 4MT (OK-ML1) model near the Baykonur Museum.

Edited image from http://cubesat.atl.calpoly.edu/pages/missions/dnepr-launch-2.php
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/22/2007 08:36 PM
Yes they are working on it to fix the heat shield, and install a new cockpit.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/22/2007 08:38 PM
On Tuesday, 20 March on the russian channel one was telecasted a show about the SPIRAL project. This project aimed to put into orbit a small space plane launch by a high altitude plane carrier. This project was a forerunner of Buran.

Reporting
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/25/2007 08:59 PM
A new thread as been created about the project to make a trip to Baikonur in 2008, I also made a page on my blog to post informations about it.

Thread on the forum

Blog

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Maverick on 03/25/2007 11:47 PM
Good idea!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Sphereion on 03/26/2007 04:30 AM
You guys be taking lots of photos and video I hope!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/30/2007 06:27 PM
A BAHRAINI court yesterday ordered that a space shuttle, which has been stranded in Bahrain for over four years, be returned to its Russian owners. The Buran has been stranded in Bahrain since mid-2002 due to a court dispute over who it belongs to.

Russian company NPO Molniya originally sold it to Singapore-based Space Shuttle World Tour, but later filed a case in the Bahrain courts claiming the latter failed to make all the payments.

The High Criminal Court ruled in NPO Moiniya’s favour on October 31 last year and ordered for the sale contract to be terminated.

However, the Singaporean company appealed against the verdict in the Supreme Civil Appeal Court, which upheld the original verdict yesterday.

Under the terms of sale, the Singaporean company agreed to buy the Buran for $320,000 (BD120,960).

It was supposed to pay the amount in two equal instalments and coughed up $160,000 (BD60,480) in April 2002.

However, it failed to meet a condition that said it should pay the second instalment within a month.

The shuttle was brought to Bahrain by Pico in July 2002 and was a feature of the Bahrain Summer festival.

Pico had negotiated with Space Shuttle World Tour to bring it here, but a case was filed in Bahrain by NPO in 2002 to prevent the shuttle from being sent to Thailand as a tourist attraction - claiming the sale was null and void because Space Shuttle World Tour had breached the contract.

Bahrain’s Supreme Civil Appeal Court also ruled yesterday that Pico, or any other party, had any right to the spacecraft.

Bahrain’s Cassation Court has previously overruled a High Civil Court decision that the dispute fell outside Bahraini jurisdiction.

Before coming to Bahrain, Buran was shipped to Australia in 2000 to become a tourist attraction, but failed to earn enough money to stay open.

The GDN reported last September that labourers had been sleeping inside the shuttle after getting through a hole in its structure.

OK-GLI


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Squid.erau on 03/30/2007 07:00 PM
Well dang.  I was in Bahrain in 2003 and never knew one of the russian shuttles was there at the time.  Oh well, someday maybe.

Matt
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/30/2007 09:15 PM
I wish someone over here in the States would buy it.

--probably not Mr. Day...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy L on 04/01/2007 01:28 AM
There seems to be an upturn in saving the Burans. Any reason for this?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 04/01/2007 01:42 AM
Quote
Andy L - 31/3/2007  8:28 PM

There seems to be an upturn in saving the Burans. Any reason for this?

Preserving history seems to be part of our culture...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/10/2007 09:33 AM
This picture was shot in december 2005 at baikonur (it is the inside of the hangar which collapsed in 2002)



We can clearly view the bottom of the launcher and the ? block.

So to answer the question we was asking ourselves few pages ago, they didn't clean it up.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 04/10/2007 10:35 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 10/4/2007  4:33 AM

So to answer the question we was asking ourselves few pages ago, they didn't clean it up.

This is amazing that after so much time things still be in that way. This explains why they don't let anyone inside the MIK.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: 02hurnella on 04/11/2007 03:08 PM
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/bbur90.jpg
This is the best image of the Buran shuttle itself that Ive seen
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/11/2007 03:22 PM
You mean a good Buran is a dead Buran ?  :frown:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/18/2007 05:56 PM
New photos of the mock-up 4MT (OK-ML1) of Buran spacecraft, which near Baikonur museum on area 2, were published on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=204612#204612) today...

[img=http://o.foto.radikal.ru/0704/b1/1223c160bdb9.jpg]

[img=http://u.foto.radikal.ru/0704/3b/c2790c1c847f.jpg]

[img=http://s.foto.radikal.ru/0704/56/9c2efa216ac3.jpg]
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/18/2007 06:02 PM
Great !!, But the cockpit is awfull, it's like bad 80's SF. They made it fast.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 04/21/2007 01:23 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 18/4/2007 1:02 PM

Great !!, But the cockpit is awfull, it's like bad 80's SF. They made it fast.

Here's a couple of shots of the US Space Shuttle's cockpit I took at Space Center Houston recently:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 04/21/2007 01:32 PM
Quote
anik - 18/4/2007  12:56 PM

New photos of the mock-up 4MT (OK-ML1) of Buran spacecraft, which near Baikonur museum on area 2, were published on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=204612#204612) today...

[img=http://o.foto.radikal.ru/0704/b1/1223c160bdb9.jpg]

[img=http://u.foto.radikal.ru/0704/3b/c2790c1c847f.jpg]

[img=http://s.foto.radikal.ru/0704/56/9c2efa216ac3.jpg]

anik, is that forum on your link translatable to English?  I would like to read through that thread...

But, thanks for posting!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: wannamoonbase on 04/21/2007 03:05 PM
Wasn't there a problem with the on orbit control or reentry and didn't they almost loose it on re-entry (recalling a story from long ago.)  

Was there a deorbit burn or was the orbit such that it re-entered regardless?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/21/2007 03:47 PM
Quote
wannamoonbase - 21/4/2007  5:05 PM

Wasn't there a problem with the on orbit control or reentry and didn't they almost loose it on re-entry (recalling a story from long ago.)  

Was there a deorbit burn or was the orbit such that it re-entered regardless?

There was no problem on re-entry with the Buran orbiter. But unofficialy it suffered damages in the wings.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 04/21/2007 04:04 PM
Quote
wannamoonbase - 21/4/2007  7:05 PM

Was there a deorbit burn or was the orbit such that it re-entered regardless?

There was a deorbit burn...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/21/2007 04:11 PM
Here is the story of the space flight.

The shuttle made 2 revolutions at 250-260 km so there was a deorbit burn.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 04/21/2007 09:43 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 21/4/2007  11:11 AM

Here is the story of the space flight.

The shuttle made 2 revolutions at 250-260 km so there was a deorbit burn.

It's a shame Buran wasn't made operational.  I thought at the time of its' first unmanned flight, with the
superb approach and landing in a strong crosswind, that this was a remarkable achievement (and still feel
this way today).  And, Energia would make an excellent booster for lofting some of the larger components
of the ISS, among other possible missions.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 04/21/2007 11:39 PM
Quote
dwmzmm - 21/4/2007  5:43 PM

1.  It's a shame Buran wasn't made operational.  

2.  I thought at the time of its' first unmanned flight, with the
superb approach and landing in a strong crosswind, that this was a remarkable achievement (and still feel
this way today).  

3. And, Energia would make an excellent booster for lofting some of the larger components
of the ISS,

4.  among other possible missions.

1.  It wasn't worth the cost

2.  No, different than the shuttle

3.  Not so all components were sized for the shuttle, would have been inefficient.

4.   There was no real use for it, hence the reason for it's non existence
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/22/2007 08:08 AM
Quote
Jim - 22/4/2007  1:39 AM

1.  It wasn't worth the cost

2.  No, different than the shuttle

3.  Not so all components were sized for the shuttle, would have been inefficient.

4.   There was no real use for it, hence the reason for it's non existence

2. Big difference with the shuttle: this last is not 100% unmanned, it still need human to land and operate in space.

3. The Energia rocket launcher wasn't made only for Buran. This is another big difference with the US shuttle. The Energia LV could be used with another payload, like Polyus, or whatever (watch the last video).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/22/2007 08:11 AM
But for the last point you're right. They're was no real project to use it. They made Buran just to equilibrate the forces between US and USSR, the one shot launchers are cheaper, and that they understood it very well.

But I'm still thinking that it could have been a great launcher (on the technical way).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 04/22/2007 11:48 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 22/4/2007  4:08 AM

2. Big difference with the shuttle: this last is not 100% unmanned, it still need human to land and operate in space.


Yes, it was a big difference.  The shuttle was advanced enough on its first flight that men could fly on it.  Buran could not.  

For the shuttle, it was a choice not to automate a flight, there was nothing technical preventing a unmanned flight.  The fact that Buran did it, doesn't mean it was more "advanced" than the shuttle

Operate in space is a relative term.  Buran just "past" through space on its short flight.  It didn't accomplish any other tasks.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/22/2007 05:36 PM
Quote
Jim - 22/4/2007  1:48 PM

Quote
buran.fr - 22/4/2007  4:08 AM

2. Big difference with the shuttle: this last is not 100% unmanned, it still need human to land and operate in space.


Yes, it was a big difference.  The shuttle was advanced enough on its first flight that men could fly on it.  Buran could not.  

For the shuttle, it was a choice not to automate a flight, there was nothing technical preventing a unmanned flight.  The fact that Buran did it, doesn't mean it was more "advanced" than the shuttle

Operate in space is a relative term.  Buran just "past" through space on its short flight.  It didn't accomplish any other tasks.

I didn't say Buran is more "advanced" than the shuttle. And yes it was a choice of the US engineers to make the shuttle manned because they prefered it like that, like a plane and not because they couldn't do it.

But the fact are they do not have a 100% unmanned shuttle, and technicaly speaking the russian have made a great job with the Buran.

About the automation in space: the arms of Buran was made to be teleoperated from earth, so a technician on the ground could operate it without beeing sent to space. That is a big difference with the shuttle, no? But the project was stop before they could do it, so...

The way they built Buran was to maximize the security, so what more secure than a shuttle without crew? That's another reason they were late and they didn't finished the cockpit yet in 1988 when they launched it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 04/23/2007 02:35 AM
I stand by my contention that the Energia launch vehicle could have excelled for the "other possible missions" as stated in my post.  In the book "Race to Mars" by Frank Miles and Nicholas Booth (I know this book has been mentioned by others in this forum), on pages 38 - 45, there's a
comprehesive rundown of the Soviet Mission Profile should they undertake a manned mission to Mars.  The Soviet manned Mars mission vehicles
include utilizing the Engeria, 220-ton stage, crew habitat module, Mars lander vehicle, and the standard Soyuz SL-4 launch vehicle.  The crew habitat
module and Mars lander vehicle would be derived from the Mir space station.  In this profile, the Engeria would have to be launched (within very short
order) four times to boost the primary components for the manned mission to Mars in Earth orbit.  Given that the Soviets/Russians have considerable
experience in readying and launching their launch vehicles quickly after they're placed on the pads, there's no doubt in my mind that this manned
mission to Mars as presented in this book is viable.  

My question to anik and buran.fr is:  If the Soviets, instead of spending considerable time, resources and money on the Buran/Shuttle program, had
they instead focused on the Energia and mission to Mars, would they have been able to succeed?  When I first saw this mission to Mars profile in this
book back in the late 1980's, I remember thinking to myself "Gosh, the Soviets might already have all the foundations in place to pull this off..."  
Afterall, one of their cosmonaut spent some 400+ days in orbit in Mir around that time, and I know much work/experiments on Mir were undertaken
with a possible plan to send cosmonauts to Mars.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jorge on 04/23/2007 02:59 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 22/4/2007  9:35 PM

My question to anik and buran.fr is:  If the Soviets, instead of spending considerable time, resources and money on the Buran/Shuttle program, had
they instead focused on the Energia and mission to Mars, would they have been able to succeed?

I am not anik or buran.fr but I'll answer anyway: no. The breakup of the USSR in 1991 was such a cataclysmic event for the Soviet economy, it would have resulted in the cancellation of Energia/Mars just as surely as it resulted in the cancellation of Energia/Buran.
--
JRF
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 04/23/2007 03:35 AM
Quote
dwmzmm - 22/4/2007  10:35 PM

In this profile, the Engeria would have to be launched (within very short
order) four times to boost the primary components for the manned mission to Mars in Earth orbit.  Given that the Soviets/Russians have considerable
experience in readying and launching their launch vehicles quickly after they're placed on the pads
.......

I remember thinking to myself "Gosh, the Soviets might already have all the foundations in place to pull this off..."


Problem wasn't at the pad, it was getting to the pad.  They had only one facility to assemble the Energia and its throughput wasn't that high.

They actually didn't.  A MIR station is not a MTV nor is it applicable to a lander.  MIR depended on constant resupply flights for consumables and spares
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/23/2007 07:06 AM
Their were some analyse about reusing the energia LV to MARS missions, one project was saying that a Mars base could have been made in 2000-2010 with Energia. Technicaly they had the launcher and some spaceship (by modifying the MIR modules). First, the problem is that is very expensive and in the late 80's it was the begining of the end for the USSR, they even not finished the Buran-Energia project even with the launch success (it's unbelievable to cancel a project after passing the tests!!!). Secondly, the whole industry was rulled by the military and those ones didn't want a Mars base. I think Mars wasn't not a priority for the Soviet as the Moon was not too. They had some project about it (to show the world they think about it and have solutions on extra-terrestrial bases but that's all).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 04/23/2007 11:06 PM
Quote
02hurnella - 11/4/2007  10:08 AM

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/bbur90.jpg
This is the best image of the Buran shuttle itself that Ive seen

That's heartbreaking!

I think Buran was the right shuttle type---it just needed to have American fit & Finish, with the Columbia being the Russian concept.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zambot on 05/09/2007 10:45 PM
Dear all,
this is my first post to the forum. I just got back from baikonur for some work and took many pictures of the place.
I put some of them related to Buran mock-up 4MT (OK-ML1) which is now close to the museum.

http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran2007/buran2007.html

As you might know, it has been restored and it is possible to visit it from the inside.
 They moved part of the buran-related exhibits from the building of the museum to the cargo bay of Buran. As you can see in the pictures the cockpit has been completed adding some meaningless items, such as voltmeter, oscilloscopes and so on. Some look original though.
I'm very glad they saved this magnificent  model, some older (2005) pictures are here:

http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran/buran.html

I apologize since the site is very crude

thanks for the many info,

Marco
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 05/09/2007 11:45 PM
Welcome, and thanks for sharing your pictures!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 05/10/2007 12:12 AM
Thank you very much for this images. The Buran model is now very different from what I saw a year ago! Thank you once again!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 05/10/2007 06:57 AM
Quote
zambot - 10/5/2007  12:45 AM

Dear all,
this is my first post to the forum. I just got back from baikonur for some work and took many pictures of the place.
I put some of them related to Buran mock-up 4MT (OK-ML1) which is now close to the museum.

http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran2007/buran2007.html

As you might know, it has been restored and it is possible to visit it from the inside.
 They moved part of the buran-related exhibits from the building of the museum to the cargo bay of Buran. As you can see in the pictures the cockpit has been completed adding some meaningless items, such as voltmeter, oscilloscopes and so on. Some look original though.
I'm very glad they saved this magnificent  model, some older (2005) pictures are here:

http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran/buran.html

I apologize since the site is very crude

thanks for the many info,

Marco

Thank you for the pictures, may I took some of them to put on my website?

On the last line you put "nose" on the caption of a picture, it's false it is the protection tiles of the parachutes (as it is written in russian), the nose is made of a once piece and don't have tiles.

PS: they didn't paint the sickle and the hammer on the red flag  :bleh:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zambot on 05/10/2007 03:40 PM
>Thank you for the pictures, may I took some of them to put on my website?

no problem. I would appreciate if you could put a link on the original position.

>On the last line you put "nose" on the caption of a picture, it's false it is the protection tiles of the >parachutes (as it is written in russian), the nose is made of a once piece and don't have tiles.

you are absolutely right! My knowledge of russian is much rougher. I have corrected the name and added a detail of the parachute as it is restored now:


http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran2007/KIF_4723_.JPG

the material looks different however, I guess they used foam to simulate the tiles

in 2005 it looked like this:

http://www.casolino.it/photos/baikonur_photos/buran/BURAN_ENGINE_.jpg

with many tiles missing from the chute


> PS: they didn't paint the sickle and the hammer on the red flag  :bleh:[/QUOTE]

I guess it is an historically polite  restoration!

thanks for letting me know


Marco
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JWag on 07/09/2007 10:00 PM

Edit: This post was in its own thread, and a moderator (wisely) merged it with this one.

 

I was looking over the thread for the recent Proton launch, and someone had posted pictures from the Buran.ru website.

Snooping around, I found that their image directory was available for browsing.  In searching for current pictures, I searched the pages for "09-Jul-2007" and found some really neat images of the Buran orbiter:

Orbiter on carrier aircraft .
Another shot of orbiter on carrier aircraft
And another...
And another...  

And some technical drawings of the Buran TPS (warning: these are large!):

ras-cb-0.jpg
ras-cb-2.jpg
ras-cb-3.jpg
ras-niz0.jpg
ras-sp-0.jpg
ras-sp-1.jpg
ras-zd-0.jpg

Edit: It looks like a lot of this is in support of this article .

On a more disturbing note, there are some animated GIFs of what appear to be Buran dispensing some Spiral-looking lifting body nuclear weapon re-entry vehicles over the continental United States:

http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/shiza_2.gif

http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/shiza_3.gif

http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/shiza_5.gif  << Was there a cargo variant of Buran ("Buran-C") ?

These were obviously created more recently, maybe to illustrate some concept for using Buran as a bombardment platform.

 

Their images are split into JPEG and GIF subdirectories.  The parent for these is here:

http://www.buran.ru/images/  

if you'd like to browse for yourself.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/10/2007 01:32 PM
I added a section in the Built models part, for the OK-2.01 shuttle with inside and outside pictures, taken at the TMZ factory in Moscow.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/11/2007 06:56 AM
Quote
MondoMor - 9/7/2007  12:00 AM

These were obviously created more recently, maybe to illustrate some concept for using Buran as a bombardment platform.

Yes, Buran was studied to be used as a launch platform of space planes (see the spiral project)

On another animated gif we can see that Buran could be used as modules of a space station (Buran without wings). In that configuration the nose (and the heat shield) was changed to add a docking bay for the cosmonauts. But that project was cancelled (too original).
The Buran shuttle wasn't made to be use as a permanent space station. The payload bay wasn't airtight...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 07/11/2007 07:21 AM
As it looks like i'll be going to baikonur soon for another launch mission, could somebody confirm if OK 1.02 is still in the MIK building (not 112) or has it been moved ? I want to see if I a. can find it, b. take pictures
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 07/11/2007 07:54 AM
and glad to see she looks much better now then back in 2005....
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/11/2007 08:00 AM
Quote
Jester - 11/7/2007  9:54 AM

and glad to see she looks much better now then back in 2005....

This picture is OK-M, not OK-1.02.


Look here.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 07/11/2007 04:33 PM
Quote
Jester - 11/7/2007  11:21 AM

could somebody confirm if OK 1.02 is still in the MIK building (not 112) or has it been moved?

As far as I know, orbital spacecraft 2K and full-size mock-up 7M are still stored inside the Assembly-Refueling Building (MZK) No. 80 on site 112A... Their future depends on Kazakhstan, which they belong to...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Space101 on 07/12/2007 05:43 AM
Kazakhstan = lots of oil. Should be able to gold plate the Burans in 20 years time!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MKremer on 07/12/2007 06:40 AM
Quote
Space101 - 12/7/2007  12:43 AM

Kazakhstan = lots of oil. Should be able to gold plate the Burans in 20 years time!
Their gov't already has a huge list of more pressing priorities taking longer than 20 years to accomplish - much more important than restoring old space hardware.
Any rescuing/restoration will likely have to come via a private sector preservation organization (with money from philanthropy/public donations/corporate sponsors).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 07/12/2007 07:30 AM
Quote
buran.fr - 11/7/2007  10:00 AM

Quote
Jester - 11/7/2007  9:54 AM

and glad to see she looks much better now then back in 2005....

This picture is OK-M, not OK-1.02.


Look here.

I know that....

I was referring to OK-M looking much better now (after the move to the museum) then before in 2005
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 07/12/2007 07:31 AM
Quote
anik - 11/7/2007  6:33 PM

Quote
Jester - 11/7/2007  11:21 AM

could somebody confirm if OK 1.02 is still in the MIK building (not 112) or has it been moved?

As far as I know, orbital spacecraft 2K and full-size mock-up 7M are still stored inside the Assembly-Refueling Building (MZK) No. 80 on site 112A... Their future depends on Kazakhstan, which they belong to...

I thought so, thanks ! thats narrows the search ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: @RD170@ on 07/13/2007 12:16 AM
Hello all !!!

This is my first post in this magnificent forum of nasaspaceflight. I´ve just discovered the forum, for years I surfed across internet looking for information about Energía LV and Buran and now I´ve just read all topic and I´m just so gratefull with so amount of information and links about.

My Nick ( RD-170 ) talk about the power, the absolute power. Absolutely clean ...

Some words more ...

I can´t believe how the humans are so stupid, with this powerfull LV ( energía ) and some intention we can reach moon ... mars and beyond. How sad is this LV forget in time ... and politics.  We almost can see part of it on Zenit and so on but that make me sad.

The only thing make me smile is the present and future of RD-180 and RD-191

We almost see the improvements of Proton, a magnificent improvements its maybe new LV.
New digital computers ( not russian ), new lighter inside design ( composite and structures ), enhanced Block M, and maybe in future new Upper Stage that was initialy developed for indian GSLV an then make bigger for Angara or Proton: KVRB
http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/razg_blok.asp, Improvements in propulsion ( incredibly but real ). More than 6000 Kg to GTO from Kazhastan.

That make me think what stupid are human ... Energía is superior and cheaper, cleaner ...

Well that is past, we must look to the future .. I hope the spirit of Buran and Energía grow again ... and we can see Angara LV working at the end ( I don´t belive but ... ).

Excuse me for my bad English I'll try to do my best in the future ...

I´ll read you all with my best pleasure.

Thanks all for your work.

Goodbye from Toledo, Spain.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/13/2007 05:45 AM
Welcome RD170!!!

I agree with you when you are saying that this is a big waste that Energia LV is not used nowadays. But unfortunatly this not the first time put into trash a great project and it will not be the last time. :sad:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pippin on 07/13/2007 09:48 AM
And in the end it's all politics.
Wasn't the Problem of Eneriga (at least the small version) that parts of it are built in Ukraine?
Let's guess how Ariane would look like if all of its parts would have to be from France or from Germany alone...

Or even Atlas....
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: @RD170@ on 07/13/2007 10:50 AM
Hello all again ...

I think the same, the politics of the blocks ( American - European - Russian - China ), means of ingigenous tecnology. They want develop his own tecnology with no spare parts of another blocks. With some exceptions of course. Because nowadays we are in a worldwide market and we exchange "products" like pailod fairings "ancient contraves space", and so on ...

One thing that is positive is that in this time we are sharing knowledge and discoveries. The blocks are improving their vehicles looking at each other. An this could be the good way.

I´m seening that the new target for the blocks is Moon an next Mars. In this context we´ll going to se a very exciting years. If US build a stable base in Moon, Europe Russia and China will do. Past history teach us, remember colonization days, all ancient european nations fighting for his part of land ...

In this context, we are going to se several things: Space Tugs, Spaceship for people simple ( with small samples return capacity ), and Spaceship heavy like BURAN and US similars. For Moon we are goint to mining there Helium 3 and we have to put into earth.

Its posible if we make some developments in nanotectnology materials we can make an hipersonic shuttle air-breathing to reach mach 25 to reach earth-departing speed and whitstanding that kind of pressures and temperature large time. And some military ( US-Russia ) are nowadays struggling to develop such kind of vehicle ( aurora ). Russia has nowadays air-breathing hipersonics war-missile to reach more than mach 6-9 !!!. Thats because russians said that they can breach any present and future defense. And US is not far away in this tecnology.

Russia is struggling hardly in nanotecnology is his present motivation to his aerospace industry ( militar an civil of course ). And US is ahead of all. It has funds, people and will.





Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 07/13/2007 07:42 PM
There was a proposed follow on to the Energiya called "Angara 100" a perfect use for the oil money coming in now. I have always been impressed with Soviet launch vehicles. The chief designers there had no fear of size.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 07/13/2007 07:51 PM
Quote
publish - 13/7/2007  2:42 PM

There was a proposed follow on to the Energiya called "Angara 100" a perfect use for the oil money coming in now. I have always been impressed with Soviet launch vehicles. The chief designers there had no fear of size.

The key here is to keep trying; never give up...

A coincidence that you mentioned Angara 100; I was just studying the pics/design late last night/early this morning with an eye to getting more info for a future model rocket scale project... ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JMS on 07/13/2007 10:51 PM
Quote
@RD170@ - 12/7/2007  7:16 PM

I´ll read you all with my best pleasure.


Ya know, that's not a typical statement in English... but I like it!
Welcome @RD170@

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/13/2007 11:34 PM
Quote
pippin - 13/7/2007  11:48 AM

And in the end it's all politics.
Wasn't the Problem of Eneriga (at least the small version) that parts of it are built in Ukraine?
Let's guess how Ariane would look like if all of its parts would have to be from France or from Germany alone...

Or even Atlas....

Yes the problem was that Energia wasn't 100% Russian (the boosters were Ukrainian), so they decided to cancel it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: George CA on 07/20/2007 08:16 PM
Are some of you still planning to go visit the Buran?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 07/20/2007 08:22 PM
Quote
George CA - 20/7/2007  3:16 PM

Are some of you still planning to go visit the Buran?

Yes we are. Check here http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/baykonur-tour-2008/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 07/20/2007 10:42 PM
$5000 per person?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/21/2007 08:43 AM
Yes, from Moscow. Unfortunately we haven't found cheaper elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 07/30/2007 10:41 PM
Is there any chance to see Buran 1.02 in the hangar? Strangely there seem to be no recent photos of her.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/31/2007 09:02 AM
Quote
stefan1138 - 31/7/2007  12:41 AM

Is there any chance to see Buran 1.02 in the hangar? Strangely there seem to be no recent photos of her.

I hope so, but it hasn't been seen for a while, and the visit of the installations is not yet decided at 100%, there is lot of things to be seen and so less time  :( .

But we will ask to see it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 07/31/2007 10:27 AM
Thanks for the answer. When will it be known if it is possible to see this Bird? How come nobody took pictures of her during the last couple of years? Thanks Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/31/2007 10:39 AM
We will know in the next few months if it is possible to see it. But because it hasn't not been seen since many years I not optimistic.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 07/31/2007 11:26 AM
Thanks Buran for your answer! I am keeping fingers crossed. Currently I am not sure if I can come with you to Baikonur because of the price.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 08/10/2007 05:21 PM
O/T--but I hear that the second AN-225 has been purchased and is being assembled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/11/2007 07:58 AM
They said that the decision to finish the second an-225 was made in september 2006 and it would be finished in 2008.
But nowhere on internet I heard such thing.

Let's wait for another source.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 08/13/2007 04:49 PM
I just found the following article in the comment´s section of Buran.Fr´s excellent site:

http://www.gulfweekly.com/article.asp?Sn=4593&Article=16279

Seems the analog Buran is "arrested" in Bahrain an can not be transported neither to Germany nor to Hong Kong. A very SAD story.

Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/13/2007 05:02 PM
Yes, it's really strange what's happening there. Now they are fighting about who must pay the transport and the dismantling. Very sad because it could go on during months.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 08/13/2007 05:09 PM
I hope that it will come to Sinsheim in the end... :) It should be better conserved there plus it is only a 1-hour drive from my home :)

BTW do you know where Orbiter 2.01 is? It was supposed to come to Germany also, but there have been no news since 3 years. As per your site it was moved in October 2004, but where did it go?

Thanks as always! Stefan :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/13/2007 05:19 PM
Quote
stefan1138 - 13/8/2007  7:09 PM


BTW do you know where Orbiter 2.01 is? It was supposed to come to Germany also, but there have been no news since 3 years. As per your site it was moved in October 2004, but where did it go?

Thanks as always! Stefan :)

I don't know. They said it went to germany too, but this shuttle disappeared (like the 1.02). To put it in a nut shell all the transactions with NPO Molniya are beyond understanding. They say one thing and do another.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 08/13/2007 05:29 PM
Thanks Buran for your quick answer. Maybe 2.01 went to China for refurbishment into a flyable orbiter... just kidding :)

Stefan :)

P.S. sorry for callin her an it... Will not happen again!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/13/2007 09:08 PM
Quote
stefan1138 - 13/8/2007  7:29 PM

P.S. sorry for callin her an it... Will not happen again!

LOL
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/15/2007 11:17 AM
Here is an article about the different ways of use of Buran (with an high proportion for the military). Of course Buran should be used for putting into orbit different kind of objects (civil or military), but also used for module of a combat space station.

We are far from the peaceful space wanted by Mikhail Gorbatchev.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/17/2007 06:55 PM
Since November 2006 (not sure of the date) it seems that the local authorities of Baikonur are repairing the roof of the MIK 112 building (which destroyed Buran and killed 7 workers in its collapse). We can see it on pictures from google maps.

In 2006

Google map

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rusty_Barton on 08/23/2007 08:32 PM
Here are links to three Burans that are visible on Googe Maps satellite photos:

Buran in Gorky Park, Moscow, Russia

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=moscow,+russia&ie=UTF8&ll=55.728663,37.596685&spn=0.00296,0.007296&t=h&z=17&om=1


Buran parked outside at Baikonur Cosmodrome, Baikonur Kazakhstan

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Baikonur+Cosmodrome,+Kazakhstan&sll=55.728747,37.596685&sspn=0.002785,0.007296&ie=UTF8&ll=45.919625,63.309993&spn=0.00172,0.003648&t=h&z=18&om=1

Disassembled Buran in a Bahrain, UAE storage yard. You can see the left wing laid out near the back of the fuselage and the right wing laid out near the nose. The tail is above the right wing.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dubai&sll=45.919625,63.309993&sspn=0.00172,0.003648&ie=UTF8&ll=26.198304,50.602893&spn=0.002219,0.003648&t=k&z=18&om=1
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: j2_ on 08/31/2007 09:08 PM
Found these Buran pics on englishrussia.com today, apologies if they've already been posted...

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1362
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceamillion on 08/31/2007 10:01 PM
Just for info, a new book by Bart Hendrickx and Bert Vis is published:

http://www.springer.com/west/home/new+&+forthcoming+titles+(default)?SGWID=4-40356-22-173740647-0

It is the best English language book on the subject and covers the history, systems, and other variants of the Soviet/Russian shuttle programme.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/31/2007 10:09 PM
Quote
spaceamillion - 31/8/2007  12:01 AM

Just for info, a new book by Bart Hendrickx and Bert Vis is published:

http://www.springer.com/west/home/new+&+forthcoming+titles+(default)?SGWID=4-40356-22-173740647-0

It is the best English language book on the subject and covers the history, systems, and other variants of the Soviet/Russian shuttle programme.

The problem is that it's quite expensive (80$ if I remember).

The writers contacted different people who worked on the project, unfortunately there is nothing new about Buran Energia in this book. But there is very few books in english on this subject so it could be interesting for people passionated by Soviet space history.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/31/2007 10:13 PM
Quote
publiusr - 10/8/2007  7:21 PM

O/T--but I hear that the second AN-225 has been purchased and is being assembled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225

A guy from Antonov at the MAKS 2007 confirmed me that they are finishing the second An 255.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/09/2007 01:50 AM
Quote
j2_ - 31/8/2007  10:08 PM

Found these Buran pics on englishrussia.com today, apologies if they've already been posted...

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1362

Great images, especially:

http://englishrussia.com/images/buran_soviet_space_shuttle/20.jpg


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hyper_snyper on 09/09/2007 02:01 AM
You know looking at Buran/Energia... all liquid all the way uphill.  It kind of bothers me that the US doesn't have a high performance Kero engine anymore.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bart Hendrickx on 09/12/2007 01:44 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 31/8/2007  5:09 PM

Quote
spaceamillion - 31/8/2007  12:01 AM

Just for info, a new book by Bart Hendrickx and Bert Vis is published:

http://www.springer.com/west/home/new+&+forthcoming+titles+(default)?SGWID=4-40356-22-173740647-0

It is the best English language book on the subject and covers the history, systems, and other variants of the Soviet/Russian shuttle programme.

The problem is that it's quite expensive (80$ if I remember).

The writers contacted different people who worked on the project, unfortunately there is nothing new about Buran Energia in this book. But there is very few books in english on this subject so it could be interesting for people passionated by Soviet space history.

The main reason we decided to write this book was that nothing substantial has appeared in English on Buran in the past twenty years or so. The Western aerospace press had pretty good contemporary coverage of the program during its heyday in the late 1980s, but virtually ignored it later on, exactly when the Russians began releasing the most interesting information.

This book is an attempt to synthesize the wealth of information that has been released on the Energiya-Buran program (as well as 1960s Soviet spaceplane projects) by Russian sources over the past twenty years. Obviously, if you've been keeping track of all that Russian literature, then the book may offer little new insight, but we're assuming that not many people in the West have (both because of the language barrier and the limited availability of many of those sources) and may find it interesting to see all that information compiled in one book, moreover in English.

By the way, the book is available from Amazon.com for $69.95. The Amazon site also has the most complete description :
http://www.amazon.com/Energiya-Buran-Soviet-Shuttle-Springer-Exploration/dp/0387698485
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Stowbridge on 09/20/2007 09:43 PM
Quote
hyper_snyper - 8/9/2007  9:01 PM

You know looking at Buran/Energia... all liquid all the way uphill.  It kind of bothers me that the US doesn't have a high performance Kero engine anymore.

Or the Russians were wishing they have decent solids?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 09/20/2007 10:57 PM
Quote
Bart Hendrickx - 12/9/2007  8:44 AM



The main reason we decided to write this book was that nothing substantial has appeared in English on Buran in the past twenty years or so. The Western aerospace press had pretty good contemporary coverage of the program during its heyday in the late 1980s, but virtually ignored it later on, exactly when the Russians began releasing the most interesting information.


I can't wait to have this book!!!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 09/24/2007 02:05 PM
I found the following report on airliners.net concerning the state of the Buran in Bahrain. Some lucky guy was able to see her in her actual appearance:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/73274/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bruce H on 09/27/2007 10:01 PM
I cant get his image to work on that link.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 09/27/2007 10:26 PM
I don't know why, but they get it away.

I made a copy of his story on my blog.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 10/19/2007 10:34 PM
Quote
j2_ - 31/8/2007  4:08 PM

Found these Buran pics on englishrussia.com today, apologies if they've already been posted...

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1362

Great pictures.

I ordered your book, Bart---but....

BOOKS A MILLION seems to have problems gathering the book together for me.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: kevwalsh on 10/19/2007 11:05 PM
For anybody wanting to find out more I heartily recommend Hendrickz and Vis, "Energiya-Buran" (Praxis 2007)... a fine read!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsp1202 on 10/19/2007 11:19 PM
Energia looks like its made of concrete; that they just poured the stuff around some humungous engines. What a beast.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 10/26/2007 04:32 PM
It inspired the Shuttle II concept here: http://www.lunadude.com/pfolio-illus.htm

The Shuttle-B concept, and Ordways Block II concepts were also inspired by Energiya Buran. I think there was even a mention or relocating engines to the External Tank mentioned in Jenkins book on the space shuttle--only in passing however.

Other:
http://www.friends-partners.org/oldfriends/jgreen/buran.html
http://www.amazings.com/sbb/reviews/review0052.html
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-0207460-2667074?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Energiya+Buran




Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/26/2007 04:56 PM
The boosters are really similar !
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 11/02/2007 05:12 PM
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/buran.html has some interesting model images. The History Of Space Travel has nice images of Buran (full page) Sci Am has a nice issue on Space exploration.

O/T This latest mag' will have coverage of Jupiter craft concepts.

http://www.foliomag.com/viewmedia.asp?prmMID=8040&prmID=1
The font here reminds me of the early "Science '84" covers


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: meiza on 11/02/2007 06:22 PM
I must say Science Illustrated (it's been published around here for a long time) is not a very high quality mag, just sensational and shallow while having pretty pictures. :( But I guess it works as an alternative, Scientific American is a bit of a demanding read at times...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Pat1982 on 11/06/2007 06:57 PM
more clips on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=buran) than I expected!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 12/18/2007 10:23 AM
I am just curious to know how many will go to Baikonur next spring as we didn´t hear any news for a while?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Maverick on 01/15/2008 09:02 PM
Did the trip happen? Would have loved to go, but don't have a spare 5,000 bucks.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 01/15/2008 09:31 PM
Quote
Maverick - 15/1/2008  4:02 PM

Did the trip happen? Would have loved to go, but don't have a spare 5,000 bucks.

The trip will happen next April and unfortunately only two members of this forum (as far as I know) will be there.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/20/2008 06:46 PM
Hello dear all, I'm new in this thread, having followed the Apollo thread till now.
I'm in a group of Celestia developers (Celestia freeware forums can be found here:
http://shatters.net/forum/index.php)
that is working to produce a full reconstruction of Buran first (and only) orbital fligjt, performed on November 15th, 1988.
BTW, we are speaking of a scientific approach in order to produce a recontruction close as possible to the real thing.   :cool:
Here the link to our Buran thread, showing the point we reached up to now:
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=175&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
and here are some images showing the actual state of advance:
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/userpix/5_zenitsep2_1.jpg
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/userpix/5_zenitsep_1.jpg
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/userpix/5_tex_1.jpg
At the moment we feel we reached a sufficiently good level of realty, but we are missing one important detail: we know where the four Zenit and the single Energia thrusters fell, but we are missing the information on how it happened exactly.
We suppose, but we have no sure proof, that the Zenit thrusters, falling on the ground from 50 km height, probably were destroyed during the reentry with an explosive charge, in order to avoid excessive damages to the population, while the Energia probably was destroyed by the atmospheric friction during its reentry to Pacific Ocean, from 115 km height.
But this is only a conjecture, whose we are not sure at all.   :frown:
Someone has a link to documents that could confirm or negate this thought, please?
Thanks a lot for your help, bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/20/2008 07:45 PM
May be this page could interest you, it's about the Bloc A.
Moreover I think they did not destroy the first stage during the fall because they placed devices into them to monitor them.

I have no informations about the trajectory of the second stage, it felt in the Pacific Ocean, it's all I know.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/20/2008 09:06 PM
Thank you for the link, but unfortunately I already checked it, and it's useless.  :frown:
It gives the Zenit thrusters "normal" soft reentry procedures, that were not applied in Buran the first orbital flight, because instead of soft landing hardware there was installed the flight monitoring hardware, so the Zenit reentry was purely ballistic, no chutes, no landing skids.
Occurring this on the USSR territory, we suppose that, having all data regarding the Zenit use and performances already been acquired by telemetry, the thrusters could have been destroyed in flight, in order to minimize the dimensions of components eventually impacting at high speed on the ground.
But, as I told, this is only a brainstorm, not a certainty.
Gimme some help, please.   ;)
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 01/20/2008 09:10 PM
Quote
andrea - 20/1/2008  2:46 PM
 
We suppose, but we have no sure proof, that the Zenit thrusters, falling on the ground from 50 km height, probably were destroyed during the reentry with an explosive charge, in order to avoid excessive damages to the population,


Why would you make this assumption?  Soyuz and Proton don't have explosive charges
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/20/2008 09:27 PM
The reason is that, as we have almost finished a long work to render a sientifically accurate full Apollo 11 mission using Celestia, we wish to make the same with the Buran orbital flight, and to do this we need SURE data, not only assumptions, even if plausible like your one or mine.
We searched a lot in the web, but we were unable to find the reply, and this is the reason why I'm asking for your help.
Among the many people in this thread knowing a lot of things on the Buran flight, surely there is someone that has the right answer.
Or at least I hope so.
Perhaps in one of the books on the matter (too much expensive for me, alas!) there is a couple lines that can fill up the gap.   ;)
Thank you for your patience.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/20/2008 11:18 PM
Some more images showing our work, hope you like them.
In the first image the Buran is on the launch pad in Baykonur
Bye

Andrea  
 :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/21/2008 12:00 AM
And here some more images, just to give you a complete summary of what we are doing.
No more, so I hope you'll like them.    ;)

Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 01/21/2008 12:23 AM
Quote
andrea - 20/1/2008  5:27 PM

The reason is that, as we have almost finished a long work to render a sientifically accurate full Apollo 11 mission using Celestia, we wish to make the same with the Buran orbital flight, and to do this we need SURE data, not only assumptions, even if plausible like your one or mine.

I still don't understand.  There is no basis for an assumption that the boosters carried explosive charges.   Russian boosters don't carry charges so why would someone think it.

Logic says there is no data on it because it doesn't exist
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Coolhand77 on 01/21/2008 01:45 AM
FYI, the chutes opened between main gear and nose gear touchdown, not in flight.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/21/2008 08:20 AM
Quote
Coolhand77 - 20/1/2008  3:45 PM
FYI, the chutes opened between main gear and nose gear touchdown, not in flight.
Oh, yes, thank you, but obviously we well know that the chutes open only when all the three landing gear oleos are compressed, i.e. when they all have touched the ground.    ;)
The reason why it looks as the Buran be still on flight is due to a depth sorting problem of the Buran model and the ground,  sorry.      :(
The image shows clearly what I'm saying: as you see in the bottom left, the Buran speed ("Velocitŕ" in Italian) is 0.000 m/s, i.e. it's landed, but it looks like "floating" in the air, just some meter OVER the runway.
This is due to the different radii of the Earth model and the Baikonur model used in this image: the Earth has a radius just a little smaller that that of the runway.
This will be solved later.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/21/2008 08:39 AM
Quote
Jim - 20/1/2008  2:23 PM
Quote
andrea - 20/1/2008  5:27 PM
The reason is that, as we have almost finished a long work to render a sientifically accurate full Apollo 11 mission using Celestia, we wish to make the same with the Buran orbital flight, and to do this we need SURE data, not only assumptions, even if plausible like your one or mine.
I still don't understand.  There is no basis for an assumption that the boosters carried explosive charges.   Russian boosters don't carry charges so why would someone think it.
Logic says there is no data on it because it doesn't exist
Jim, I understand you, but as you say "there is no data on it because it doesn't exist", OK, then what happened?
Have we some information of Zenit debris falling on the ground near some village or so on?
If yes, where?
Up to now nothing at all.
I wish to have this kind of information, if exists, not only that there were no explosive charges on board, it's not enough for our purposes, understand?
Obviously, if after a long search, at the end of our project, we'll have found no information on the matter, we'll be obliged to avoid showing the Zenit return to the Earth, having no sure information on how (and where) this happened.  :frown:
Thank you for your kind help.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 01/21/2008 01:38 PM
Russian range safety procedures are to just shutdown the engines.  In many, if not all, launch vehicles are unstable without active control and will tumble after the engines are shutdown.  The tumbling will sometimes cause the vehicle and burned outs stage to breakup due to aeroloads.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/21/2008 04:20 PM
Quote
Jim - 21/1/2008  3:38 AM
Russian range safety procedures are to just shutdown the engines.  In many, if not all, launch vehicles are unstable without active control and will tumble after the engines are shutdown.  The tumbling will sometimes cause the vehicle and burned outs stage to breakup due to aeroloads.
Thank you Jim.
So the stages breakup occurs due to aerodynamical forces, with just a partial melting?
What may be the temperature achieved by this space junk falling on the groung, startiing at a speed of about 1.78 km/s at 82-58 km height? (as shown here at points 4-5:
http://www.buran.fr/energia/img/trajectoire-blocA-grand-en.jpg)
The thing simply breaks in smaller pieces ?
This looks very interesting.
But still I'm missing the most important aspect of our problem: where did they fall?
Any further inforrmation?
Any idea on whom I can contact directly to have this information, even if in Russian?    :cool:
Thanks a lot.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/23/2008 12:50 PM
Here are new two images of last additions to our Buran models.
It's the take-off from Baikonur.
Hope you like them.
We are now working on exhaust flames, and we have some time needed to obtain a good (we hope) result.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hoonte on 01/23/2008 02:48 PM
I noticed that the buran main engines are 'unlike the space shuttle' located on the ET and are not reuseable. I was wondering if this is more cost efficient the the reusable once on the sts which I guess must be more complicated.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/23/2008 03:04 PM
Quote
Hoonte - 23/1/2008  4:48 PM

I noticed that the buran main engines are 'unlike the space shuttle' located on the ET and are not reuseable. I was wondering if this is more cost efficient the the reusable once on the sts which I guess must be more complicated.

The Buran has engines which can be used during the launch but are far less powerfull than the STS's ones, the majority of the thrust is made by the Energia LV.

In fact the problem is not the same, the STS is a launcher by itself, and Buran is only a shuttle. They weren't made for the same thing. Buran is just a payload of the Energia LV which have a first stage recovery. So may be it's more expensive, but the fact is that it's difficult to compare them on these field because they weren't made for exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bart Hendrickx on 01/25/2008 11:28 PM
Quote
andrea - 20/1/2008  1:46 PM

At the moment we feel we reached a sufficiently good level of realty, but we are missing one important detail: we know where the four Zenit and the single Energia thrusters fell, but we are missing the information on how it happened exactly.
We suppose, but we have no sure proof, that the Zenit thrusters, falling on the ground from 50 km height, probably were destroyed during the reentry with an explosive charge, in order to avoid excessive damages to the population, while the Energia probably was destroyed by the atmospheric friction during its reentry to Pacific Ocean, from 115 km height.
But this is only a conjecture, whose we are not sure at all.   :frown:
Someone has a link to documents that could confirm or negate this thought, please?
Thanks a lot for your help, bye

Andrea    :)

One of the most authoritative sources on the Energiya rocket are the memoirs of Energiy chief designer Boris Gubanov. He says the boosters impacted 426 km downrange 418 seconds after Buran's liftoff. There is no indication whatsoever in the memoirs or in any other source that I'm aware of that there was a self-destruct mechanism on the boosters to minimize the chance of any of them hitting populated areas. Launch azimuths of Russian rockets are carefully selected to avoid that hazard.  

As for the core stage, there is reason to believe that significant pieces survived re-entry or even more than that. The Russian space magazine "Novosti Kosmonavtiki" carried a number of articles last year by a former engineer of the NPO Energiya Volga Branch, which played a leading role in the design of the core stage. He claimed that (contrary to expectations) the core stage of Energiya 6SL (the Energiya launched on 15 May 1987) came down in the Pacific pretty much intact (apart from some scorching of thermal insulation and cracks in certain areas) and, even more amazingly, that it actually stayed afloat. Supposedly, Soviet Navy ships had been stationed in the expected impact zone and they were ordered to sink the core stage to prevent it from falling into foreign hands since there was no practical way of towing it back to the Soviet Union. The story seems more legend than fact, but I've heard suggestions that the Energiya core stage may have been more stable during re-entry than the Shuttle's External Tank because of the presence of the heavy tail section with the four RD-0120 engines.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/25/2008 11:43 PM
Thanka a lot, very interesting.
Moreover it matches our calcilations, giving the Zenits impacting at a distance of 450 km from Baikonur, as it's most important for us to know that there were no explosive charges to reduce impact hazards to the population.
And moreover it's very interesting to read that the stage 2, Energia, didn't break apart and came down in the Pacific still as a  single piece.
Very nice, thanks a lot, appreciated.  
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/26/2008 08:19 AM
And here another image, this one of Buran at blastoff.
As you see we are near the end of our adventure, and thanks to your help, we are preparing the complete flight track, from take off to landing, like (well, almost like!) the real thing.
Hope you'll like it.  :cool:
Moreover we found here:
http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-92.htm
a very good description and timings of the Buran landing procedures applied during the return from orbit, very useful.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bart Hendrickx on 01/26/2008 01:07 PM
Quote
andrea - 25/1/2008  6:43 PM

And moreover it's very interesting to read that the stage 2, Energia, didn't break apart and came down in the Pacific still as a  single piece.
Very nice, thanks a lot, appreciated.  
Bye

Andrea    :)

Do note that the only source for this information is the former engineer from the NPO Energiya Volga Branch, there is no independent confirmation of this. Also, he was referring specifically to the core stage used for the first Energiya launch on 15 May 1987, not to the one used for the Buran launch on 15 November 1988.

Nice job on the illustrations. One of them does show all four strap-on boosters peeling away from the core stage separately. In reality, the strap-ons separated in pairs and it was not until 15 to 25 seconds later that both pairs in turn split into two boosters. This was done to reduce the chance of any of the boosters hitting the core stage or Buran after separation.    

Just as an aside, it's not quite accurate to refer to the strap-ons as "Zenits". The Zenit does have a first stage that is about 70 % identical to the Energiya strap-on boosters, but also has a second stage (and even a third stage for the Sea Launch version) that makes it a rocket in its own right.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/26/2008 01:51 PM
Quote
Bart Hendrickx - 26/1/2008  3:07 AM
Do note that the only source for this information is the former engineer from the NPO Energiya Volga Branch, there is no independent confirmation of this. Also, he was referring specifically to the core stage used for the first Energiya launch on 15 May 1987, not to the one used for the Buran launch on 15 November 1988.
We understand. But we must think, missing ANY other information, that this was applied to the orbital flight too, IMHO.

Quote
Nice job on the illustrations. One of them does show all four strap-on boosters peeling away from the core stage separately. In reality, the strap-ons separated in pairs and it was not until 15 to 25 seconds later that both pairs in turn split into two boosters. This was done to reduce the chance of any of the boosters hitting the core stage or Buran after separation.
   
Thank you, but we are well aware of this.
The problem is due to the very (VERY!) difficult creation of the trajectories for the 3D objects.
We tried, but the final orbits were interfering among the various objects, while with all the objects separated the things were easier and smoother to be obtained.
Nevertheless, we are not yet issuing the package, because we hope to be able to solve this problem in a not so long time.

Quote
Just as an aside, it's not quite accurate to refer to the strap-ons as "Zenits". The Zenit does have a first stage that is about 70 % identical to the Energiya strap-on boosters, but also has a second stage (and even a third stage for the Sea Launch version) that makes it a rocket in its own right.
Good to know, thank you.
So their real name is “A Block”, correct?
Thank you once again.

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/26/2008 02:15 PM
Yes the first stage is the A block.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: imfan on 01/26/2008 03:57 PM
I would suggest downloading excellent add-on for orbiter simulator by Yuri Kulchitsky ( http://kulch.spb.ru ).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/26/2008 11:18 PM
Quote
buran.fr - 26/1/2008  4:15 AM
Yes the first stage is the A block.
Thank you.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/26/2008 11:19 PM
Quote
imfan - 26/1/2008  5:57 AM

I would suggest downloading excellent add-on for orbiter simulator by Yuri Kulchitsky ( http://kulch.spb.ru ).
Thank you imfan, I'll give a look.   ;)
bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: andrea on 01/27/2008 12:07 AM
And here another image, this time Buran is entering its orbit, engines just shut-down.
Bye

Andrea    :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 03/10/2008 05:19 PM
I just heard on my local radio station that the Buran Analog Prototype is finally on its way from Bahrain to the Technikmuseum Sinsheim, Germany. It is currently on a ship somewhere in the Persian Gulf / Indian Ocean.

Unfortunately no link available.

Regards Stefan
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/10/2008 05:26 PM
Wait just a few moment, it's coming ;P
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/10/2008 06:24 PM
The buran   OK-GLI is finally going to germany (Sinsheim/Speyer museum), the carrying began during the night of Tuesday 4 to Wednesday 5 of March.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 03/10/2008 08:50 PM
Thanks Buran.fr for the link. I am looking forward to see Buran Analog in reality.

By the way, how is your trip to Baikonur going?

Regards Stefan
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/10/2008 09:19 PM
We just got the invitations to ask for the Visas (me and two other french), but Satori is still waiting for it. I think it's just a delay trouble and not a refusal.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 03/10/2008 09:26 PM
Wish you guys a nice trip and looking forward to see all those nice reports and photos!

Regards Stefan
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/11/2008 06:17 AM
Quote
stefan1138 - 11/3/2008  12:26 AM

Wish you guys a nice trip and looking forward to see all those nice reports and photos!

Regards Stefan

Thank you !  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MichaelF on 03/14/2008 04:18 AM
Was the Energia-2 flyback booster ever technically feasible (seems to be a pretty challenging bit of engineering)?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/14/2008 06:55 AM
I think it's the normal evolution of reusable launch system. After reusing only boosters and the shuttle, this one save the whole launcher. The NASA also thought about such kind of launcher (based on the STS).

Technically it seemed feasible, the engines was barrowed from Energia LV, the heat shield, aerodynamics flight systems and the on-board computer was borrowed from Buran. So at the end of the 80's they had all the knowledge and experiment to do such thing. Off course it is not so simple their would be problems like the shape of the wings and other aerodynamic problems, but according to the work of the NPO Energia design bureau (under Gubanov) it was feasible.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 03/25/2008 09:03 AM
Guys, get over here quick ;) OK-M is looking very nice, I went to visit again yesterday and they really did a nice job at restoring her

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 03/25/2008 09:14 AM
Yes, it's better like that.  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/25/2008 12:15 PM
Renamed the thread to be more accurate - as it's grown since the opening video.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jirka Dlouhy on 03/30/2008 02:15 PM
Energia with Buran - scheme:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jirka Dlouhy on 03/30/2008 02:26 PM
Comparing of STS and Energija/Buran:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Archibald on 03/30/2008 06:21 PM
Ok, here's a (probably) dumb question... would it be possible to mount a Buran on top of a Saturn INT-21 and launch it to LEO this way ?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JMS on 03/30/2008 06:52 PM
A similar proposal. Not the INT... but close.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/satuttle.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 03/30/2008 07:43 PM
Though I think the Saturn INT-21 only had 78 to 115 tons LEO payload in a very low 185km orbit at 28 degrees because the S-II had to perform direct orbital injection hauling it's self into orbit as well.
So a full sized Buran might be too heavy for it.

Though Buran unlike skylab can perform it's own orbital injection burn so the 115ton number might be the more correct value in this case.

It would work if it was launched from the Cape vs Baikonur.
Energia actually was a more powerful vehicle then the INT-21 and could scale to over 200tons LEO payload though this configuration never flew.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jorge on 03/30/2008 07:48 PM
Quote
Archibald - 30/3/2008  1:21 PM

Ok, here's a (probably) dumb question... would it be possible to mount a Buran on top of a Saturn INT-21 and launch it to LEO this way ?

No, for the same reason an Australopithicus can't ride on the back of a Stegosaurus. They're both extinct, and never existed at the same time.

You wouldn't want to anyway. The Buran wings would generate a huge aerodynamic pitch moment that would create loads and control problems. That has always been the bugaboo for putting winged spacecraft atop a stack.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 03/30/2008 07:57 PM
Well you could just have Buran's APU's fully active during ascent and use the control surfaces to reduce the lift force as this is what STS does.

The lift issue is hardly  a show stopper but yes both vehicles are extinct.

But an extinct technology unlike an extinct animal can be recreated so long as the blue prints still exist or an example of it exists to be reverse engineered.

Instead of the INT-21 today we'd use the Jupiter 232 a vehicle with similar performance but much lower costs.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jorge on 03/30/2008 08:16 PM
Quote
Patchouli - 30/3/2008  2:57 PM

Well you could just have Buran's APU's fully active during ascent and use the control surfaces to reduce the lift force as this is what STS does.

A series-stacked Buran would have the wings much farther from the stack c.g., so for a given lift force the moment is much higher. It would therefore be much more sensitive.

Quote
But an extinct technology unlike an extinct animal can be recreated so long as the blue prints still exist or an example of it exists to be reverse engineered.

Don't kid yourself about the level of difficulty. It would be like reconstituting a dinosaur from DNA. Theoretically possible but wildly impractical.

Quote
Instead of the INT-21 today we'd use the Jupiter 232 a vehicle with similar performance but much lower costs.

You'd have to do the same thing with the orbiter. I think such a vehicle should be dubbed "Theseus". :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 03/30/2008 08:17 PM
Quote
Patchouli - 30/3/2008  3:57 PM

Well you could just have Buran's APU's fully active during ascent and use the control surfaces to reduce the lift force as this is what STS does.

.

wrong.  
It is not that easy and can't be hand waved away.  The shuttle does it to reduce loads on the wings, it has little affect on the flight path.   On top of a LV is completely different

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Archibald on 04/01/2008 08:25 AM
----No, for the same reason an Australopithicus can't ride on the back of a Stegosaurus. They're both extinct, and never existed at the same time.----

Forgot to mention my question was on technic only (not on history)
---The Buran wings would generate a huge aerodynamic pitch moment that would create loads and control problems. That has always been the bugaboo for putting winged spacecraft atop a stack.
-----

ok
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 04/02/2008 04:13 PM
The Analog has now arrived in Rotterdam, a short clip of it (in Dutch) can be found here:
http://www.ad.nl/fun/bizar/2190733/Buitenaardse_taferelen_in_Rotterdamse_haven.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 04/03/2008 08:33 PM
The Analog in Rotterdam
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: eeergo on 04/03/2008 10:16 PM
Sorry, I haven't found what the Analog is... not a Russian Shuttle name that I'm aware of, or is it?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hop on 04/03/2008 10:28 PM
Quote
eeergo - 3/4/2008  3:16 PM

Sorry, I haven't found what the Analog is... not a Russian Shuttle name that I'm aware of, or is it?
Analog to flight hardware, i.e. mock-up or test article.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zpoxy on 04/05/2008 02:00 PM
Quote
hop - 3/4/2008  6:28 PM

Quote
eeergo - 3/4/2008  3:16 PM

Sorry, I haven't found what the Analog is... not a Russian Shuttle name that I'm aware of, or is it?
Analog to flight hardware, i.e. mock-up or test article.

It was the Russian approach and landing test version of the Buran orbiter. Note the turbojet engines mounted on the aft fuselage. It was capable of taking off from a runway under its own power.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 04/05/2008 03:21 PM
The Buran was placed on a photoon today in Rotterdam, for its trip to Germany (which also  began today).
Here you can see photos of todays event:

http://www.mach25.nl/~jacques/prive/buran.html

All photos were taken by me :-)

High Res. images in L2

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/05/2008 03:53 PM
More high res pictures:
http://www.technik-museum.de/uk/speyer/
-> Buran (left) -> Media Releases (lower right) (not allowed to link directly)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/05/2008 03:54 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/05/2008 03:54 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/05/2008 04:05 PM
http://www.technik-museum.de/buran-tomtom/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/05/2008 11:00 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 04/06/2008 07:08 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/06/2008 03:54 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/07/2008 10:55 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 04/07/2008 01:12 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/07/2008 02:42 PM
nice shots
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/07/2008 10:05 PM
The buran transport stays in Krefeld over night. There are webcams in Düsseldorf (link below). Can anybody check these at 6 UTC (estimate) for pictures of the Buran? Thx

http://www.swd-ag.de/privatkunden/spiel_spass/webcam.php# (Buran should appear in the lower webcam first)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: CFE on 04/07/2008 11:30 PM
Hopefully it will be cared for and appreciated in its new resting place.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/08/2008 08:10 AM
Looks like 6 UTC was a little bit optimistic. anway the Buran has reached Düsseldorf. The overall Buran transport is a about half a day behind schedule but should still arrive in Speyer on Saturday.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/08/2008 08:14 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/08/2008 08:24 AM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: michaelSN99 on 04/10/2008 02:09 AM
We started an image contest of the Buran transort across the Netherlands and Germany. You can see all the photographs at http://www.ag-99.de/r50plus/statistik/1988/museum/transport/transport.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/10/2008 12:18 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/10/2008 04:23 PM
Buran in Mainz, Germany
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nethegauner on 04/11/2008 06:28 AM
Here are some images from yesterday. My parents took those in Oestrich-Winkel and Eltville. That's in the Rheingau region.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/11/2008 08:49 PM
The ship reached its final destination. Final transport to the museum tomorrow. I posted hi res images of the Buran transport in Mannheim / Ludwigshafen on L2. Will upload smaller images tomorrow or so.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: thomasafb on 04/12/2008 01:56 PM
the convoy has just passed me on ist way from the river to the museum. a number of tv and radio crews were there as well as few hundred people lining the streets. impressive to see her and although she has no wings nor tail, the view reminded me a lot of the photo we have all seen as Columbia was transported from Palmadale to Edwards.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/12/2008 04:41 PM
just returned from the transport. hi res pictures coming up on L2 shortly. real buran hype. about 10 000 people at the road.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ShuttleFan75 on 04/12/2008 11:26 PM
Glad they are preserving this vehicle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: PurduesUSAFguy on 04/13/2008 12:15 AM
If I'm not mistaken that was one of the jet powered landing/descent trainers and not one of the orbiter built right?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 04/13/2008 12:26 AM
Yep that right, it's a Buran Analogue.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 03:52 PM
Photos of Buran-Transport in Mannheim / Ludwigshafen (hi res on L2)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 03:53 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 03:54 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 03:56 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 03:56 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:01 PM
Transport to the museum in Speyer
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:02 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:02 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:03 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:04 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:04 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 04/13/2008 04:05 PM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 04/15/2008 02:44 PM
That's awesome. :)

I found this documentary on Buran http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=QhmXJcQfiV4  It's quite sad Buran was flown once. IMO that would be one amazing view seeing Buran and a US shuttle docked to ISS. :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 04/15/2008 09:08 PM
Not sure if this has been posted, but here is what appears to be a walk around of Buran after her only space flight.  Note what appears to be damage on the wings:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=3gjubQ7SB8I
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 04/15/2008 09:35 PM
That is tile damage. The tail/ rudder, wings, body flap had missing tiles in very tiny areas. What gets me is the extreme scorching done to the aft end after entry.

Here's a news report I found showing Buran http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LKs0TOjX9LU&feature=related
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Stowbridge on 06/05/2008 11:03 PM
Chris, will you be doing a trailer for the Buran videos you have on L2 (I see it in the ticker)?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/06/2008 12:58 AM
Chris, will you be doing a trailer for the Buran videos you have on L2 (I see it in the ticker)?

It's about three hours of previously unseen video...but we'll look into it after 124.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Spacenick on 06/06/2008 12:18 PM
That was mostly due to the political and economic downfall of the Soviet Union, if there had been stronger political support I'd bet Buran and Shuttle would have competed with one another in a great way which had pushed both technologies much further, as competition always does.
I think in the beginning the Buran would have some advantages because of the flexibility of the Energia system which allows the launch of heavy payloads without the orbiter while making the orbiter simpler because there is no need of running highly explosive main engine fuel through it and from the tank to the orbiter.
These advantages, however, can also be seen as a consequence of the fact that Buran was simply developed later and probably with knowledge about the American Shuttle Program.
It's no wonder that a system has advantages under such circumstances, the question would have been weather the manufacturing quality could have been kept high enough in Soviet Russia as can be seen with Soyuz which generally has a pretty good design.
I'm sure that a Buran in service would have pushed technology a lot on both sides of the pond.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Spacenick on 06/06/2008 01:04 PM
It was usefull as a test for the system and it could have been developed to do more things automated, like docking with MIR. Let's not forget the Buran wasn't finihed when the program ended. I find it quite respect less, to put things as simple as you are putting it. There is no ground for calling either of these two systems superior if only one had the political support to live on, you can talk about advantages and disadvantages in the planned design, but you can't judge the design by it's only test flight other than acknowledging that it's principles were feasible, as far as we know.

It's not Buran that failed, it's communism that did!

I have every reason to believe that during their development and operation these two vehicles have seen the best engineers and scientists in the world working on them on both sides of the fence and to believe that no team was superior to the other, while the Russian team might have had an advantage in knowledge due to the fact that they could learn from their colleagues.
So please keep this discussion respectful and don't blame failures of politicians on the people working on great projects.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 06/06/2008 09:39 PM
Let's not forget that it's very possible that if the Soviets weren't the first to launch Sputnik and Vostok, the USA probably wouldn't have had the incentive to be the first to put a man on the moon.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Spacenick on 06/06/2008 10:03 PM
Which might not have happened without the Germans doing stupid things with good rockets. That's the bad part of most of our modern technology there is very few that would have developed as fast as it did without the war.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Crispy on 06/07/2008 12:57 PM
Which might never have happened if the Germans had been allowed to develop artillery after WW1
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: brueyh1976 on 06/08/2008 02:17 AM
What an interesting thread on what might have been, I just hope that the surviving Buran orbiters can be preserved in some form as they are an important part of the Russian space programme.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: MrTim on 06/08/2008 05:58 PM
(snip) It's not Buran that failed, it's communism that did!
There are plenty of universities in the US where that might not be accepted as true  :D
I have every reason to believe that during their development and operation these two vehicles have seen the best engineers and scientists in the world working on them on both sides of the fence (snip)
Agreed, and congratulations to all those who worked on both systems for getting them to function as well as they did given the resources each were given and the demands made. These vehicles have both had to fly in an unimaginably difficult combination of aerodynamic and thermal conditions; for both vehicles to do it successfully on their first flights is quite an achievement.

(snip) the Russian team might have had an advantage in knowledge due to the fact that they could learn from their colleagues.
Might? oh, come-on now... the Buran crew hatch is even on the same side of the fuselage!  :D  The reluctance of some to admit how much of the Buran was influenced by the US design is sort of amusing and has always generated a few laughs over here; I presume it's wrapped-up in national pride on the Russian side, but I suspect the Buran would have been more-respected by people on this side of the ocean if the influence had been openly admitted rather than denied back when it flew. The US program was operated publicly, so it was not exactly unexpected that others would see it as an example (both for good and ill) The reluctance to admit the level of influence makes about as much sense as it would for the US to not admit it was influenced by German rocket builders.  :)

So please keep this discussion respectful and don't blame failures of politicians on the people working on great projects.
I think we can all respect the work that went into Buran, w/o regard to the influence of the US program (which we can all be free to agree/disagree about). I, for one, wish they had made a minimum of one more flight of the same vehicle so we would know if was indeed re-usable. A manned flight would have been nice, so the vehicle could have been moved from the "robotic vehicle" category to the "manned vehicle" category. It would have been a very neat thing had the US and Russia both been able to service ISS by orbiter; it might have even influenced the US to do a second-generation shuttle rather than killing the program, and might have driven the partners to build a larger ISS with greater crew capacity.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Spacenick on 06/08/2008 08:14 PM
Well, bringing the whole team of Wernherr von Braun over the pond is not really being influenced^^ Though, it's absolutely clear they were more than willing to come to the US, after all sending things into the sky was that they cared for and that could be done best in the US.
The thing about the Space Shuttle derivate in Buran is that it's pretty mixed.
While the aeronynamics design of the Orbiter and therefor its physics for descent were direcect copies of the Space Shuttle Orbiter, the method to put Buran into Orbit was completely different from the American approach.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 06/13/2008 07:10 AM
The Buran OK-GLI was transported in the exhibition hangar of the museum on Wednesday June 11, <a href="http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-gli-technik museum sinsheim speyer.php#Building_entrance">here are some pictures[/url].
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/13/2008 03:44 PM
The Buran OK-GLI was transported in the exhibition hangar of the museum on Wednesday June 11

Pictures of the 'Analog' inside the actual hangar are here  (http://www.technik-museum-presse.de/index.php?action=showgal&cat=97).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: shuttlelegs on 06/20/2008 03:06 PM
Iam glad she's got a good final home.
Back in Sydney Australia in 2001 when I first saw her she kind of looked lonely. I was the only one there and I spent while over a hour looking her over specialy in the payload bay. Hope to see her again soon.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 06/20/2008 09:26 PM
Nice pictures; is that a full scale model of the 747 in those last several pictures?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Felix on 06/22/2008 12:14 AM
Nice pictures; is that a full scale model of the 747 in those last several pictures?
It is/was a real 747 (D-ABYM 21588 "Schleswig-Holdstein")
Photos: http://www.museumspeyer.de/00004193132A_D4E3D357_00001060_0001.html (http://www.museumspeyer.de/00004193132A_D4E3D357_00001060_0001.html)

The museum group also owns an Antonov AN-22, a Tupolev TU-144 ("russian Concorde") and a Concorde (F-BVFB).
For more, see: http://www.technik-museum.de/uk/ (http://www.technik-museum.de/uk/)

Picture of the Antonov AN-22 (taken by me):
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 06/26/2008 06:41 PM
Quite a collection of aircraft. Good to see Igor Volk's ride being taken care of.

There is a new model kit of this craft.
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=63060
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 06/26/2008 09:09 PM
There is a new model kit of this craft.
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=63060

I noticed it too, I'm going to buy at least all the buran's related kits.
Poor CB  :'(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Suzy on 07/05/2008 03:41 AM
Iam glad she's got a good final home.
Back in Sydney Australia in 2001 when I first saw her she kind of looked lonely. I was the only one there and I spent while over a hour looking her over specialy in the payload bay. Hope to see her again soon.

Did you take any photos? I was hoping the exhibition would come to Melbourne, but was disappointed when the company went bankrupt!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: STS Tony on 07/07/2008 02:00 AM
Are there any more viable Burans that could be saved like the last one?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 07/07/2008 08:06 AM
There is Buran 1.02 (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-102.php) which is in Baikonur (but it's the property of Kazkhstan).
The other ones were not fully completed.

It seems that Sinsheim & Speyer was also interested by 2.01 (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-201.php). But she is in a realy bad shape now.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 08/05/2008 08:04 AM
Hi,
I made a new small site:

Buran is often considerated as a poor copy of the american shuttle just because it looks similar (in shape), but the differences are deeper, that’s why I made a comparison (buran.su (http://www.buran.su)) between the 2 systems, STS and Buran-Energia. This comparison is based on the mains functionnalities of the launchers and shuttles, on-board computer, engines, dimensions, etc…

Moreover, I compared the 2 systems in their begining, because Buran didn’t evolved.

Tell me if I made mistakes or mis-interpretation.  ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DmitryP on 08/31/2008 03:40 PM
Vadim Lukashevitch at his site presented a new version of the screensaver showing realistic animation of various Soviet spacecrafts (actual and planned). Now with English controls and small English description. For everybody who would like to see how spacecrafts operate in near Earth space.

http://www.buran.ru/htm/scr_en.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Oersted on 09/08/2008 03:50 PM
This Buran looks in OK shape, more or less, where is it, does anybody know?

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2006#more-2006
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 09/08/2008 04:52 PM
It's in Tushino near Moscow. On a parking (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-201-exterieur.php).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 10/09/2008 11:33 AM
Hello,

I was in Speyer (Germany) last week to see the opening of the Apollo & Beyond exhibition.
It is this museum which finally get the Buran OK-GLI test shuttle. They renovate it, and now it looks very great.

Here is my pictures (http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/speyer-museum/space-building/lang-pref/en/).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: elmarko on 11/20/2008 07:45 PM
There's a story on Buran on BBC News online today, which is worth a read:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7738489.stm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: iamlucky13 on 12/09/2008 10:12 PM
Wow...I'd love to see Buran in action, but this article is laughable:

Soviet Space Shuttle Could Bail Out NASA (http://www.russiatoday.com/scitech/news/33330?gclid=CIue08nOtJcCFQv7agodjkTJjw)

I found that link as an ad on the front page of the NSF.

"Because NASA will soon retire its ageing space shuttle fleet, some American and Russian scientists are beginning to think of ways to revive the Buran programme."

No actual details are provided about the claim that Russia would restart the Buran program, but it did inform me that one of the reasons for building Buran was to steal Skylab.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 12/09/2008 11:23 PM
Wow...I'd love to see Buran in action, but this article is laughable:

Soviet Space Shuttle Could Bail Out NASA (http://www.russiatoday.com/scitech/news/33330?gclid=CIue08nOtJcCFQv7agodjkTJjw)

I found that link as an ad on the front page of the NSF.

"Because NASA will soon retire its ageing space shuttle fleet, some American and Russian scientists are beginning to think of ways to revive the Buran programme."

No actual details are provided about the claim that Russia would restart the Buran program, but it did inform me that one of the reasons for building Buran was to steal Skylab.

I read that ad/article, too, the other day (made for very interesting reading).  Personally, I'd love to see the Buran up and running myself, but
got a laugh at the suggestion that Buran was going to steal the SkyLab;
I think SkyLab is too big to fit into Buran's payload bay....
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/10/2008 07:07 AM
This article is good to began a good day, it's essential to laugh each day. :D
First of all Buran will never be funded again, otherwise why they were working on different versions of Klipper for all these years?
Secondly, I think they mistaken Skylab and SpaceLab ( which can fit into the payload bay).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 12/10/2008 10:51 AM
This article is good to began a good day, it's essential to laugh each day. :D
First of all Buran will never be funded again, otherwise why they were working on different versions of Klipper for all these years?
Secondly, I think they mistaken Skylab and SpaceLab ( which can fit into the payload bay).

Ok, I forgot about SpaceLab....
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/10/2008 11:38 AM


I found that link as an ad on the front page of the NSF.


You found it via some wacky google adsense link that's managed to find its way on. Nothing to do with the site other than poor selection by google's software. Will block it.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: iamlucky13 on 12/10/2008 07:04 PM


I found that link as an ad on the front page of the NSF.


You found it via some wacky google adsense link that's managed to find its way on. Nothing to do with the site other than poor selection by google's software. Will block it.

I appreciate your effort to keep NSF informative and accurate, although to be clear, I recognized it as an automated ad and wasn't necessarily complaining. I got a good laugh out of it. Somebody might want to add the information about stealing Skylab to the uncyclopedia. :D

That said, russiatoday does not appear to be reliable source of news about anything, especially spaceflight.

Quote from: buran.fr
Secondly, I think they mistaken Skylab and SpaceLab ( which can fit into the payload bay).

Do you mean SpaceLab flown in the US shuttle's bay? No way they would be stealing that (tug-of-war in orbit?). Perhaps they were referring to plans to build a similar laboratory payload for Buran?

My thought was maybe they envisioned separating the telescope mount and/or the docking adapter. It still seems like a fantasy, however.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/10/2008 08:15 PM
Quote from: iamlucky13

Quote from: buran.fr
Secondly, I think they mistaken Skylab and SpaceLab ( which can fit into the payload bay).

Do you mean SpaceLab flown in the US shuttle's bay? No way they would be stealing that (tug-of-war in orbit?). Perhaps they were referring to plans to build a similar laboratory payload for Buran?

My thought was maybe they envisioned separating the telescope mount and/or the docking adapter. It still seems like a fantasy, however.

Yes, off course the spacelab was sealed inside the payload bay and could not be steal. But I was wondering how they think that Skylab (diameter of a Saturn V) could fit inside the payload bay?  ???

As Chris Bergin said, it's really not a reliable source so let them stay there.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 12/10/2008 08:28 PM
Yes, off course the spacelab was sealed inside the payload bay and could not be steal. But I was wondering how they think that Skylab (diameter of a Saturn V) could fit inside the payload bay?  ???
Not quite. Skylab was a converted S-IVB stage which had a diameter of 22 ft(6.6m), while the S-1C and S-II stages had a diameter of 33 ft(9.9m). Still too wide for the orbiter payload bay though, 15 ft(4.5m).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: zerm on 12/11/2008 10:55 AM
That piece is the biggest giggle I've had all week. It reads like the day dream of an old Soviet space-buff wishing for the good ol' days of the old USSR to return. Of course none of it is going to ever happen- Buran is not coming back. The sad part is that some in the media will read it and consider it to be factual and then spread the myth as if it were true. This is especially true here in the US. With Miles O'Brien and his whole tech. staff now eliminated from CNN, I wonder how long before that network runs with this nonsense story? Bets anyone?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 12/15/2008 11:11 PM
With any luck China might buy into a Buran like system.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 12/15/2008 11:18 PM
With any luck China might buy into a Buran like system.

good, it can bankrupt them
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 12/15/2008 11:39 PM
Yes, off course the spacelab was sealed inside the payload bay and could not be steal. But I was wondering how they think that Skylab (diameter of a Saturn V) could fit inside the payload bay?  ???
Not quite. Skylab was a converted S-IVB stage which had a diameter of 22 ft(6.6m), while the S-1C and S-II stages had a diameter of 33 ft(9.9m). Still too wide for the orbiter payload bay though, 15 ft(4.5m).

They might have been thinking on just stealing parts of the station such as just the Apollo telescope mount the rest of Skylab would not be of much technical interest to them esp considering their DM stations though smaller were much more advanced.

Though Energia II/Buran T might have been able to capture and return the entire station but I think it might still be too heavy for the vehicle to land safely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia_II
http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/b/burantst.jpg
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 12/15/2008 11:49 PM
They might have been thinking on just stealing parts of the station such as just the Apollo telescope mount the rest of Skylab would not be of much technical interest to them esp considering their DM stations though smaller were much more advanced.

1.  That is a fabrication.  Skylab was long gone before Buran was even a viable project *

2.  Also the DM stations were not more advanced

* the fact that you believed this shows your clueless
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 12/16/2008 12:01 AM
With any luck China might buy into a Buran like system.

good, it can bankrupt them
   China's GDP is about 4,222 billion USD or nearly 1/3 that of the US.
It would not bankrupt them by a long shot not even Apollo Saturn would.
Apollo was only 2% of the US GNP in 1969 Buran cost less then the N1 project which was less then 1/4 that of Apollo.

The cost is very small compared to their military budget for example.

The only way your going to bankrupt China would be to screw up global trade and have another cold war.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 12/16/2008 12:32 AM
They might have been thinking on just stealing parts of the station such as just the Apollo telescope mount the rest of Skylab would not be of much technical interest to them esp considering their DM stations though smaller were much more advanced.

1.  That is a fabrication.  Skylab was long gone before Buran was even a viable project *

2.  Also the DM stations were not more advanced

* the fact that you believed this shows your clueless

Buran also dates back to 1976 and even NASA believed Skylab was going to still be in orbit by the 80s back then.
The projections for orbit decay that did not factor in the then not fully understood effects solar maximum on the upper atmosphere put it's orbital life span to somewhere around 1982 to 1984.
 
Most likely he meant a spysat and quickly replace it with skylab since that would sound less alarming then stealing a spysat or it was simply a translation error.

Yes I watched the vid.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hanschristian on 12/16/2008 07:11 AM
With Miles O'Brien and his whole tech. staff now eliminated from CNN, I wonder how long before that network runs with this nonsense story?

Or to paraphrase, how many of these crappy stories can we expect to see in the future?... ???

Maybe we may see a spaceflight tabloid... A very scary thought... :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jim on 12/16/2008 11:47 AM

Buran also dates back to 1976 and even NASA believed Skylab was going to still be in orbit by the 80s back then.
The projections for orbit decay that did not factor in the then not fully understood effects solar maximum on the upper atmosphere put it's orbital life span to somewhere around 1982 to 1984.


Incorrect, by 1976 NASA knew Skylab was coming down earlier.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hanschristian on 12/16/2008 11:50 AM

by 1976 NASA knew Skylab was coming down earlier.

I recall they want to accelerate STS because of this... am I right?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: William Barton on 12/16/2008 12:45 PM
With Miles O'Brien and his whole tech. staff now eliminated from CNN, I wonder how long before that network runs with this nonsense story?

Or to paraphrase, how many of these crappy stories can we expect to see in the future?... ???

Maybe we may see a spaceflight tabloid... A very scary thought... :(


A spaceflight tabloid would at least mean there was some public interest...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: comethunter on 12/16/2008 02:37 PM
Have I missed something along the way?  As a space video junkie recording television coverage dating back to 1982, I don't recall ever seeing the complete launch of Buran; only a short clip at tower.  You would think it would have been released after all these years (i.e. failed N1).  Again, have I missed something?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ugordan on 12/16/2008 02:40 PM
If you've seen the launch pad video then you've seen what kind of meteorological conditions were present during launch. The vehicle disappeared into the cloud deck seconds after liftoff.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/16/2008 02:52 PM
Have I missed something along the way?  As a space video junkie recording television coverage dating back to 1982, I don't recall ever seeing the complete launch of Buran; only a short clip at tower.  You would think it would have been released after all these years (i.e. failed N1).  Again, have I missed something?

Here is the videos of the Buran's launch (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-videos.php?file_dbt_=1). But quick it disappears in the clouds.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: comethunter on 12/16/2008 09:50 PM
Thanks for the info.  It's been a while since ive seen the video. The short video makes sense now with the cloud deck.  I'm sure its probably been mentioned somewhere in this long thread, but what was the rationale to launch a new vehicle at night into a cloud deck?  What about high altitude imagery?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 12/17/2008 02:36 AM

by 1976 NASA knew Skylab was coming down earlier.

I recall they want to accelerate STS because of this... am I right?

They did want to accelerate the STS production, but ran into too many
snags that kept pushing Columbia's maiden launch further. 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lars_J on 12/17/2008 03:35 AM
Thanks for the info.  It's been a while since ive seen the video. The short video makes sense now with the cloud deck.  I'm sure its probably been mentioned somewhere in this long thread, but what was the rationale to launch a new vehicle at night into a cloud deck?  What about high altitude imagery?

Wasn't funding drying up rather quickly? They probably wanted to launch at least once before the program was canned - hoping that a success would extend the program. (not that it ended up making much of a difference)

Just my speculation, of course.

Plus the Russians have always been used to launching at pretty severe weather conditions. (compared to STS)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/17/2008 07:10 AM
Thanks for the info.  It's been a while since ive seen the video. The short video makes sense now with the cloud deck.  I'm sure its probably been mentioned somewhere in this long thread, but what was the rationale to launch a new vehicle at night into a cloud deck?  What about high altitude imagery?

As Lars_J said the weathers conditions are rude in Baikonur, the russian have the habit to launch in very bad weather conditions. Moreover it was just a low cloud layer, no dangerous winds or hail.
It wasn't really at night it was 8AM at Baikonur (6AM at Moscow).
There was a Mig above the clouds that shoot a movie when Energia-Buran passed through until it reached orbit. But the imagery quality is low because it was taken by a normal movie camera by the co-pilot.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hanschristian on 12/17/2008 09:50 AM

A spaceflight tabloid would at least mean there was some public interest...

but that may spark an interest of the negative kind...

like these possible headlines...

SPACE TOILET BROKEN, ISS CREW IN BIG TROUBLE
SHUTTLE WINDSHIELD HIT, CREW AT RISK...
$100k TOOLBAG LOST IN SPACE, SPACEWALK IN JEOPARDY
FOAM CAME LOOSE AFTER LAUNCH, SHUTTLE IN DANGER

not helpful... >:(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hanschristian on 12/17/2008 09:54 AM

They did want to accelerate the STS production, but ran into too many
snags that kept pushing Columbia's maiden launch further. 

I see... :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: comethunter on 12/17/2008 10:53 AM
All due respect, and I mean that, please explain the rationale...you are going to launch a test vehicle (Buran), not to mention first launch.  Constraints to launch...uh, lets see...no one on board, no where to go, nothing to deploy...its a test flight (cloud deck, dark, no upper imagery).  I still need some rationale on this.  Not trying to get political here.  Give the weather a couple of days if needed.  Launch to the east in the early morning sun...engineers will watch their rewards or, better than seeing nothing.  Not to mention, Soyuz rotation flights are launched when...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ugordan on 12/17/2008 10:59 AM
Why? Watch what? How many sunny days per year are there at Baikonur? It's not like they have long range tracking cameras like the Cape does, anyway. Engineers don't need visuals on their vehicle, they're too busy looking at the telemetry. Visuals are only a bonus for outsiders.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: KEdward5 on 12/17/2008 01:02 PM
Thanks for the info.  It's been a while since ive seen the video. The short video makes sense now with the cloud deck.  I'm sure its probably been mentioned somewhere in this long thread, but what was the rationale to launch a new vehicle at night into a cloud deck?  What about high altitude imagery?

There's four Burna videos on L2, all about two hours long each, coverted from video tape and in Russian. One of them is specific to the launch, mission and landing. Includes video from a Soviet fighter during first stage.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: comethunter on 12/17/2008 01:06 PM
IFR and VFR.  Use all tools available to fly the mission and continue its meaning.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2008 01:16 PM
That reminds me, we still need to create the trailer for the L2 videos of Buran. Will be a "promotion" but also a free video for all (like the re-entry videos), so everyone wins. Several gigabyte of video, so it'll take a while to create a promo video, but we'll arrange that over Christmas.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DMeader on 12/17/2008 03:09 PM
Engineers don't need visuals on their vehicle, they're too busy looking at the telemetry. Visuals are only a bonus for outsiders.

Like the photos in the Rogers Commission report showing the puffs of smoke and later the plume of flame coming from the breached field joint on the SRB? Those were of no value and were only a "bonus for outsiders"? Why were cameras placed inside propellant tanks of some of the early vehicles to watch how the contents behaved during flight? Why are there cameras on the Shuttle watching the vehicle during ascent and inside the umbilical well to photograph the ET after separation? The engineers surely don't need any of this, they just watch their telemetry.  Sheesh. Sorry for OT.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ugordan on 12/17/2008 03:27 PM
Engineers don't need visuals on their vehicle, they're too busy looking at the telemetry. Visuals are only a bonus for outsiders.

Like the photos in the Rogers Commission report showing the puffs of smoke and later the plume of flame coming from the breached field joint on the SRB? Those were of no value and were only a "bonus for outsiders"? Why were cameras placed inside propellant tanks of some of the early vehicles to watch how the contents behaved during flight? Why are there cameras on the Shuttle watching the vehicle during ascent and inside the umbilical well to photograph the ET after separation? The engineers surely don't need any of this, they just watch their telemetry.  Sheesh. Sorry for OT.

Fine, if you wanna play it this way. Why do they need thousands of cameras watching shuttle ascent and taking images of the ET? Because the Shuttle system was poorly designed (and this is in full advantage of 20/20 hindsight) in that the Orbiter could potentially suffer catastrophic damage from its own launch system. At the same time, the launcher itself can work perfectly fine. Which *other* launch vehicle requires such close scrutiny during launch?

You will note there are many engineering cameras mounted at the pad and even on the vehicle if necessary for various vehicles. I'm not arguing about those as the cloud cover is irrelevant to them. I don't see how that has anything to do with usefulness of long range tracking the vehicle through much of ascent. They are a bonus, and should be a bonus, not a requirement. Shuttle has been known to launch into low clouds as well, so what's the point in necessitating clear skies for a launch. The russians obviously didn't think it was necessary with Buran.

If I was not clear about visuals above, it was the original poster's comment about launching into a cloudy sky. And yes, engineers evaluate footage after the launch and are most likely occupied looking at the consoles during the actual launch.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DMeader on 12/17/2008 03:35 PM
Which *other* launch vehicle requires such close scrutiny during launch?

All.

That's all I'll say, and no, I will not take part in the  "Buran Vs. Shuttle" screed (and if not that, Russian operations philosophy VS American operations philosophy) you seem to want to get going.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ugordan on 12/17/2008 03:40 PM
I'm not getting anything going.

If all launch vehicles *required* such close scrutiny, none would ever launch into an overcast sky. Or launch during nigthttime, alternatively. Apollo 12 would never have launched during a heavy downpour and consequently would not be struck by lightning if tracker footage was deemed *that* important.

EDIT: You seem real eager to degrade my points to a russian-vs-american thing and frankly I don't see where you're coming from. Maybe you're projecting your own ideas, but I'd appreciate if you don't put words into my mouth. I said in an above post that even shuttle launched in "unfavorable" tracking conditions, look at STS-123 for the latest example.

Maybe instead of accusing me of that you'd be willing to expand on why exactly trackers are a requirement for all vehicle launches?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: comethunter on 12/17/2008 04:22 PM
I would recommend the Steppenwolf/Born to be wild video to start things off.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/21/2008 08:29 AM
I had this news (http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/2008/12/13/moving-of-the-catapult/lang/en/) some days ago and I didn't put it here so I do now:

The catapult which was used to test the ejectables seats of Buran was moved some weeks ago from Zhukovski air base (near Moscow).


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 12/21/2008 08:51 AM
I had this news (http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/2008/12/13/moving-of-the-catapult/lang/en/) some days ago and I didn't put it here so I do now:

The catapult which was used to test the ejectables seats of Buran was moved some weeks ago from Zhukovski air base (near Moscow).

Where has the catapult been moved to now? Is it going to a museum, or will it be scrapped?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 12/21/2008 08:56 AM
The problem is that I couldn't have the information :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 03/08/2009 11:40 PM
     <yawn> Pardon me for sounding cynical, but a new book on Almaz?  Riiiiight.  Seriously, who buys that Russian rubbish?  I'm SURE it'll be choc-full of color pics of these stations being prepared/launced and in orbit?  I don't think...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/09/2009 02:25 PM
     <yawn> Pardon me for sounding cynical, but a new book on Almaz?  Riiiiight.  Seriously, who buys that Russian rubbish?  I'm SURE it'll be choc-full of color pics of these stations being prepared/launced and in orbit?  I don't think...

Why the cynicism?  The Russians have released tremendous amounts of information on the past decade.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DMeader on 03/09/2009 02:55 PM
     <yawn> Pardon me for sounding cynical, but a new book on Almaz?  Riiiiight.  Seriously, who buys that Russian rubbish?  I'm SURE it'll be choc-full of color pics of these stations being prepared/launced and in orbit?  I don't think...

Well, I would for one. I just finished one book on Soyuz ("Soyuz: A Universal Spacecraft" by Hall and Shayler) and another on Mir ("The Story of Space Station Mir" by Harland), and I wold enjoy a book on Chelomei's Almaz.  Oh, and some of us can enjoy a book that isn't chock-full of pretty pictures.

Why the derision and hostility?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 03/10/2009 04:03 AM
     "Tremendous amounts of information'?  In relation to the vacuum that existed beforehand, that *might* be considered true.  I still think Russian books claiming all sorts of 'firsts' and 'new photos',etc, are a scam.
     Their photo archives have not been opened to researchers.  There is only ONE good book in the Soviet space program IMHO: Phil Clark's excellent "The Soviet Manned Space Program", now much in need of an update.  The only 'book' that has ever come close to blowing me away was the "Rocket and Space Corporation Energia" pamphlet.  For the time, it had stunning new pics of Voskhod being assembled AND on the pad, some UR-500/Zond shots (stills from a movie, admittedly, but still new to me), lovely shots of the N1-L3 system, and some nice Buran/Energia stuff.  But just think of all the things we still *haven't* seen.  Color shots of the Almaz(Salyut) stations in orbit, being built, being launched, etc, seeing as we're talking about that particular subject.  I stand by to be corrected, but I bet you my house that this new book ain't got 'em!
     I just think we've been dudded too long.  The USSR ceased to exist nearly 20 years ago.  I realize they might have secrecy classifications on some things, just like the US does, but at least their civilian programs can be completely out in the open now.  They seem to think we should get excited about shots of the latest Progress launch, as if by providing them we can be distracted enough to forget about all the yummy things from the past they still don't think we're worthy of seeing.
     I am 44, and I am starting to doubt if I'll ever get my hands on those historic goodies before I shuffle off this mortal coil.  I hope I'm wrong, but each new publication just lets me down again...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/10/2009 09:38 AM
There is only ONE good book in the Soviet space program IMHO: Phil Clark's excellent "The Soviet Manned Space Program", now much in need of an update. 

The fact that you did not mention Asif Siddiqi's "Challenge to Apollo" indicates that you are not very familiar with the literature.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 03/10/2009 10:16 AM
... I just finished one book on Soyuz ("Soyuz: A Universal Spacecraft" by Hall and Shayler) and another on Mir ("The Story of Space Station Mir" by Harland)
They are both very interesting and well researched books, IMHO. I enjoyed them both.
To come back to the topic of this thread, there is another book from the same publisher (Springer Praxis) I would highly recommend:
"Energiya-Buran - The Soviet Space Shuttle" by Hendrickx and Vis.
http://www.amazon.com/Energiya-Buran-Soviet-Shuttle-Springer-Exploration/dp/0387698485/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236682535&sr=8-1
(Don't know if it has been mentioned here before.)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 03/11/2009 03:06 AM
     I haven't actually bought "Challenge to Apollo', true.  I wasn't expecting anything new!  Perhaps you can correect me on this?
     The aforementioned book on Energia/Buran makes compulsive reading, emphasis on the 'reading'.  The pics aren't new - I've seen them all on the  www.buran.ru site, and even more disappointingly, they're all b&w.  I went so far as to teach myself enough Russian to read their publications, and have several - again, enough to convince me that they're not worth the money, so no more of this 'unfamiliar with the subject matter' chat...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/13/2009 10:01 PM
1-I haven't actually bought "Challenge to Apollo', true.  I wasn't expecting anything new!  Perhaps you can correect me on this?
2-The aforementioned book on Energia/Buran makes compulsive reading, emphasis on the 'reading'.  The pics aren't new - I've seen them all on the  www.buran.ru site, and even more disappointingly, they're all b&w.  I went so far as to teach myself enough Russian to read their publications, and have several - again, enough to convince me that they're not worth the money, so no more of this 'unfamiliar with the subject matter' chat...

1-Go buy the commercial press version, produced in two volumes: Sputnik and the Soviet Space Challenge and The Soviet Space Race with Apollo.

The book is the most important English-language history of the Soviet space program that has been published.

While you're at it, you should also check out the several volumes of Chertok's memoirs published by NASA and edited by Siddiqi.

2-I'm sorry, but your comments make it difficult to conclude that you are familiar with the literature.  There has been a tremendous amount of new material on the Soviet space program that has been released, starting in the mid-1990s.  You refuse to acknowledge that, or make odd comments that books are no good unless they're filled with pictures.  A blanket statement that there's been no good info, followed by a comment that there's a lot of info, but it's on the web, and the pictures are black and white, is contradictory.

3-(I realize there was no 3, so I'm making a 3) In addition to the sources already mentioned, there were a series of articles in Spaceflight magazine in the 1990s that shed light on many aspects of the development of the Soviet R-7 ICBM/rocket.  It was amazing material.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 03/14/2009 12:12 AM



2-I'm sorry, but your comments make it difficult to conclude that you are familiar with the literature.  There has been a tremendous amount of new material on the Soviet space program that has been released, starting in the mid-1990s.  You refuse to acknowledge that, or make odd comments that books are no good unless they're filled with pictures.  A blanket statement that there's been no good info, followed by a comment that there's a lot of info, but it's on the web, and the pictures are black and white, is contradictory.



Very true; a case in point is the book "Apollo - The Behind-The-Scenes
Story of One of Humankind's Greatest Achievements" by Charles Murray &
Catherine Bly Cox.  I ordered this book several years ago thinking it was
going to have a lot of pictures of the Saturn - V/Apollo spacecraft, etc.,
but instead it has NO pictures whatsoever (except a really nice Saturn - V liftoff photo on the cover).  Instead, the book offers very compelling and dramatic insights by those who were behind the scenes (controllers,
engineers, scientists, etc) that, once you start reading, it's hard to put
it down. 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Art LeBrun on 03/14/2009 01:50 AM
3-(I realize there was no 3, so I'm making a 3) In addition to the sources already mentioned, there were a series of articles in Spaceflight magazine in the 1990s that shed light on many aspects of the development of the Soviet R-7 ICBM/rocket.  It was amazing material.
[/quote]

The author was Timothy Varfolomeyev and he included lotsa details
on the R-7 and it's evolution to the Molniya SLV for lunar, Venus and
Mars probes. Many designations and flight results. Part 4 was in the
January 1998 Vol 40 No 1 Spaceflight. Well worth digging up.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Art LeBrun on 03/14/2009 02:02 AM
For Soviet/Russian images look at the evolving SPACEPHOTOS.RU
site hosted by Andrey Lysenko. Mostly recent images but interpersed among the different launch vehicles are some older images. More to
come as I understand. There is an effort in Russia to unveil the history.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/14/2009 11:46 AM
I thought that Varfolomeyev wrote about ten articles on the subject, but I'd have to go through old issues to see.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: gwiz on 03/14/2009 03:43 PM
I thought that Varfolomeyev wrote about ten articles on the subject, but I'd have to go through old issues to see.
There were thirteen parts, published in Spaceflight for Aug 95, Feb and Jun 96, Jan, Mar, May, Sep and Dec 98, May 99, Apr and Oct 00, Jan and Apr 01.

I got the impression that there should have been more,but for some reason the series ended prematurely.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Art LeBrun on 03/14/2009 08:12 PM
Thanks for the issues - now I will search for any I need to scan.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 03/15/2009 01:47 AM
    Yep, spacrfotos.ru has shown a degree of promise, but ishandicapped by the same problem: the USSR's photo archives still remain closed.  I think of what's been released so far on that site indicates, more than anything,  just what we're missing out on.  I've ordered a couple of pics from them.  I hope they're worth it.
     Lastly, I'm not obsessed with photos.  It's just that to justify a book on the Russian space program, filling it with yet more grainy, blurry b&w's, artist's impressions and line drawings is getting seriously stale.  For instance: "13: The Flight that Failed" by Henry Cooper is by FAR the best book on the Apollo 13 accident I've ever seen, and guess what.  Not a pic in sight!  But having already seen the Apollo 13 pics elsewhere, it didn't really matter.  The quality of his writing more than made up for that.  No Russian book published so far can make up with good prose for the lack of pics, because you can't see tham anywhere else...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/15/2009 02:16 AM
I got the impression that there should have been more,but for some reason the series ended prematurely.

Yeah, I had the same impression--that he just quit.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Art LeBrun on 03/15/2009 02:43 AM
    Yep, spacrfotos.ru has shown a degree of promise, but ishandicapped by the same problem: the USSR's photo archives still remain closed.  I think of what's been released so far on that site indicates, more than anything,  just what we're missing out on.  I've ordered a couple of pics from them.  I hope they're worth it.
     Lastly, I'm not obsessed with photos.  It's just that to justify a book on the Russian space program, filling it with yet more grainy, blurry b&w's, artist's impressions and line drawings is getting seriously stale.  For instance: "13: The Flight that Failed" by Henry Cooper is by FAR the best book on the Apollo 13 accident I've ever seen, and guess what.  Not a pic in sight!  But having already seen the Apollo 13 pics elsewhere, it didn't really matter.  The quality of his writing more than made up for that.  No Russian book published so far can make up with good prose for the lack of pics, because you can't see tham anywhere else...

I am in a "hope for" mode for past Soviet photos surfacing. I know
Andrey Lysenko has hundreds of early US missile photos and he will be
on the lookout for additional still images from the USSR era. The facts
are not yet in but much Soviet imagery was done with motion picture film. There are many quality still images of the cosmosnauts but the missiles and spacecraft seem to be lacking in still images 1956-1975?


     
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 03/15/2009 12:30 PM
I'll ask Asif.  He's told me about some really great imagery he's seen in Russia, but which has not been seen in the West yet.  That includes motion picture imagery.  For instance, he told me he's seen really good N-1 launch footage never seen in public before.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: dwmzmm on 03/15/2009 01:15 PM
One spacecraft/launch vehicle I've yet to see in quantity and quality is the
Voskhods.  I've been needing more data on the Voskhods so I can build a flying
scale model of one. 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: publiusr on 03/20/2009 07:50 PM


   China's GDP is about 4,222 billion USD or nearly 1/3 that of the US.
It would not bankrupt them by a long shot not even Apollo Saturn would.


The only way your going to bankrupt China would be to screw up global trade

We're doing a pretty good job of that. Reagan supposedly spent Russia into the ground--now it will be toxic assets that wreck the Chinese--with Hilary begging them to buy into the curent Ponzi scheme.

Socialize risk--privatize profits. Just great.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danny Dot on 03/20/2009 09:51 PM
One spacecraft/launch vehicle I've yet to see in quantity and quality is the
Voskhods.  I've been needing more data on the Voskhods so I can build a flying
scale model of one. 

Here is the best picture I could find.  Imagine a large basket ball :-)

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/graphics/v/voskhod.gif

Danny Deger
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danny Dot on 03/20/2009 10:00 PM
snip

I thought this was an interesting link.  I was working for NASA at the time Buran flew and the rumor was the Russians decided not to fly it again because it had major TPS problems.

Danny Deger

http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-11-15/Soviet_space_shuttle_could_bail_out_NASA.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/14/2009 02:50 PM
Here is the pictures I took of the NPO Energia museum (http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/npo-energia-museum/lang-pref/en/).  ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/14/2009 02:53 PM
snip

I thought this was an interesting link.  I was working for NASA at the time Buran flew and the rumor was the Russians decided not to fly it again because it had major TPS problems.

Danny Deger

http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-11-15/Soviet_space_shuttle_could_bail_out_NASA.html

There is a rumor which says that the flying structure suffered plasma leaks during re-entry phase. But the loss of tiles were minor.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark S on 04/14/2009 03:41 PM
snip

I thought this was an interesting link.  I was working for NASA at the time Buran flew and the rumor was the Russians decided not to fly it again because it had major TPS problems.

Danny Deger

http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-11-15/Soviet_space_shuttle_could_bail_out_NASA.html

Ha ha!  This quote from the referenced article caused me to spew coffee all over my monitor and keyboard:

Quote
“The Energia-Buran programme was started to get the capability to attack the United States, just like the shuttle was able to attack the USSR. We also wanted to take the Skylab space station from orbit. Buran was supposed to put it in its cargo bay and deliver it back to Earth for studies,” Tolboev said.

Buran was much smaller than the Shuttle, and there is no way Skylab could ever fit in a Shuttle!  What a bunch of nationalistic tripe.

And there is no way either vehicle could attack the opposing nation.  What a laugh!

Is all Russian journalism this credulous, or is RussiaToday just a Russian version of the Enquirer?

Mark S.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jorge on 04/14/2009 04:50 PM

Ha ha!  This quote from the referenced article caused me to spew coffee all over my monitor and keyboard:

Quote
“The Energia-Buran programme was started to get the capability to attack the United States, just like the shuttle was able to attack the USSR. We also wanted to take the Skylab space station from orbit. Buran was supposed to put it in its cargo bay and deliver it back to Earth for studies,” Tolboev said.

Buran was much smaller than the Shuttle, and there is no way Skylab could ever fit in a Shuttle!

Correct on the latter, incorrect on the former.

Buran was practically the same size as the US shuttle, and in fact the payload bay dimensions were identical enough that US shuttle payloads could fit in Buran's payload bay.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Adams on 04/23/2009 03:35 AM
Found this on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nJkyA2ESPE

Paul
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 04/23/2009 03:44 AM
Found this on YouTube


Paul

If wished were horses, we'd all be eating steak
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 04/23/2009 07:08 AM
Russia Today is the specialist of such announcement.
Buran won't be revived to replace the space shuttle.
NPO Energia tried to make another shuttle (which can feet the today requirements), it is called Klipper and is paused. If somebody wants to make a shuttle he will make this one instead of Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pm1823 on 05/18/2009 02:49 PM
Buran&Vysotsky's song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7O-5yC3S-g
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/18/2009 03:17 PM
It's the Eurovision Song Contest all over again! :D

What's that in the background 1:22? A Mig with afterburners on?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pm1823 on 05/18/2009 03:51 PM
It's ЛИИ им. Громова in shot.
http://www.liicom.ru/english/index.htm
And MiGs don't need to use afterburner for the such smoke.  ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Kaputnik on 06/06/2009 08:30 PM
Apologies if this has been asked before.

What did the Soviets plan to do with Soyuz once Buran was operational?
Funny that they didn't consider a 'gap' as being feasible...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zipi on 01/14/2010 03:44 PM
Has anyone seen more recent pictures from Buran 2K than 2004 which are also in this thread?

This is a fantastic thread, I have red all the posts through and watched tens of links to the other web pages.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 01/14/2010 04:38 PM
Has anyone seen more recent pictures from Buran 2K than 2004 which are also in this thread?

I saw only interior photos made by Vadim Lukashevich on January 31, 2007. They are here (http://www.buran.ru/htm/1-02.htm). But what differences do you want to see since 2004? There are no differences. 2K is poor and dusty bird. She belongs to Kazakhstan, which do not know what to do with her. Spaceship's internal parts is removed with vandalism, cables are cut, tiles are damaged. Gates of building, where she is, can not be opened. 2K with her sister 4MT are there for ever. Photos of 4MT (also from that date) can be seen here (http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-mt.htm).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/14/2010 04:53 PM
Sorry but the pictures you showed are of Buran 1.02. I think Zipi is refering Buran 2K as 2.01.
Here are some pictures of 2.01 (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-201-exterieur.php) and here (http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/category/bourane/buran-ok-201/), more recent (last summer).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 01/14/2010 05:01 PM
Sorry but the pictures you showed are of Buran 1.02. I think Zipi is refering Buran 2K as 2.01

I am sorry, but 2K is 1.02 and 2.01 is 3K, so I have answered to what I had seen.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/14/2010 05:08 PM
Sorry but the pictures you showed are of Buran 1.02. I think Zipi is refering Buran 2K as 2.01

I am sorry, but 2K is 1.02 and 2.01 is 3K, so I have answered to what I had seen.

My mistake :(. You are right 2K is Buran 1.02. I should have checked before :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zipi on 01/14/2010 05:24 PM

I saw only interior photos made by Vadim Lukashevich on January 31, 2007. They are here (http://www.buran.ru/htm/1-02.htm). But what differences do you want to see since 2004? There are no differences. 2K is poor and dusty bird. She belongs to Kazakhstan, which do not know what to do with her. Spaceship's internal parts is removed with vandalism, cables are cut, tiles are damaged. Gates of building, where she is, can not be opened. 2K with her sister 4MT are there for ever. Photos of 4MT (also from that date) can be seen here (http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-mt.htm).

Thanks Anik, this 1.02 is what I was looking for. And I'm willing to see how much dustier that poor bird is nowadays 2010 compared to 2004 and is she still mainly in "one piece".

BTW: Are those 2004 dusty photos at some other web site than in this thread? I tried to crawl through buran.ru and buran.fr, but couldn't find them...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 01/14/2010 06:05 PM
Are those 2004 dusty photos at some other web site than in this thread?

That photo was from Russian Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine, where small article about all Buran birds at Baikonur were published. I can post link (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/254/04.shtml) to it, because now it is on-line. In 2005 I have scanned this photo from magazine.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 01/14/2010 10:31 PM
Apologies if this has been asked before.

What did the Soviets plan to do with Soyuz once Buran was operational?
Funny that they didn't consider a 'gap' as being feasible...

Soyuz was to serve along side Buran as an escape pod for stations and eventually replaced with Zarya not to be confused with the ISS segment of the same name.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/zarya.htm

 I'm surprise no private groups have not tried to purchase one of the Buran's as an opportunity to study a reusable space vehicle.

After learning what they could from it a Buran Shuttle would make a fine lawn ornament.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: carmelo on 01/15/2010 06:01 PM
Was the Buran project more expansive that Project Apollo?
Is true or is a myte that damaged seriously the soviet economy?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Patchouli on 01/15/2010 06:39 PM
Was the Buran project more expansive that Project Apollo?
Is true or is a myte that damaged seriously the soviet economy?
That is a myth Apollo was by a very large margin the most expensive space project in history.
The most expensive Soviet space program was the N1 and Soyuz and their R&D budget was less then 1/3 that of project Apollo.
Buran was not responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union things like the Typhoon class sub program were much more expensive.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 01/22/2010 06:13 PM
Whats the item on the tank ahead of the orbiter?

I am sorry for delay with answer for four years, but now I know that it is instrument of direction orientation of Energiya rocket. :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Damon Hill on 01/22/2010 07:01 PM
You mean to say the heads-up display is mounted >outside< the spacecraft?????
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: marshallsplace on 01/22/2010 07:35 PM
Hmm... I hope you're not serious!?..  anik is saying it is for the control of the Energiya NOT the Buran (and anyway what use is a heads-up for an unmanned spacecraft? ;) )
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: buran.fr on 01/22/2010 11:00 PM
Yes those are the gyroscopes of the rocket, the 3 whites blocks are removed seconds before launch.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zipi on 04/15/2010 12:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDKoFyEe2PE

Hopefully this is enough Buran related to be in a this thread... I really don't know what they are talking about since I don't understand russian language. Maybe someone does subtitles for this video?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: savuporo on 04/15/2010 03:06 PM
Its the story of BOR/Spiral, Buran is just shown for contrast. The show is "General of Star Wars" , other parts are on ytube.

EDIT: actually, scratch that. 3rd part talks about how Buran came about as well, and how the main constructor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleb_Lozino-Lozinskiy) was told by the politicians to forget about BOR, because "our bird must look at least as good or better than Americans".
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/17/2010 07:23 PM
Found randomly on the Net : an amazing picture of Buran 4MT in the 112A area of Baikonur cosmodrome.

http://www.mai6.ru/contents/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=18

Update : this is orbiter 7M, not 4MT.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 06/17/2010 07:44 PM
Found randomly on the Net : an amazing picture of Buran 4MT in the 112A area of Baikonur cosmodrome.

http://www.mai6.ru/contents/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=18 (http://www.mai6.ru/contents/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=18)

holy crap, somebody got lucky ! I asked my buttoff when I was there and couldn't get access
That's a very elusive shot, from apparently added 7th of April 2009 but i'm trying to work out the real date.

in any case, cleanup on isle 5 a shame is bombarded with guano   
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Downix on 06/17/2010 07:55 PM
Found randomly on the Net : an amazing picture of Buran 4MT in the 112A area of Baikonur cosmodrome.

http://www.mai6.ru/contents/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=18 (http://www.mai6.ru/contents/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=18)

holy crap, somebody got lucky ! I asked my buttoff when I was there and couldn't get access
That's a very elusive shot, from apparently added 7th of April 2009 but i'm trying to work out the real date.

in any case, cleanup on isle 5 a shame is bombarded with guano   
Are you sure it's MT?  The only pictures of MT I've seen did not have black around the nose area save for the tip.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/17/2010 08:22 PM
Are you sure it's MT?  The only pictures of MT I've seen did not have black around the nose area save for the tip.

It's what Anik said in the page 3 of this thread...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Downix on 06/17/2010 10:44 PM
Are you sure it's MT?  The only pictures of MT I've seen did not have black around the nose area save for the tip.

It's what Anik said in the page 3 of this thread...
The picture on page 5 of 4MT matches the color-schemes I've seen before.  This one does not, is all I am saying.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 06/18/2010 06:54 AM
     That sure looks like a flight-rated orbiter to me, judging from the TPS; looks nothing like MT.  Must be OK 1.02 Burya at long last.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 06/18/2010 08:39 AM
Ok, I did some checking, below is what should be the correct names (the 4MT above is wrong, the real 4M has been refurbished and is now outside the baikonur museum there days)

In the first picture (posted by anik many pages back) the one on the bottom is 2k and the one on top is 7M (in line with the post by anik on page 5)

looking at the first picture you can see that the one in the second image is the same as the top one on the first picture.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Downix on 06/18/2010 11:37 AM
Ok, I did some checking, below is what should be the correct names (the 4MT above is wrong, the real 4M has been refurbished and is now outside the baikonur museum there days)

In the first picture (posted by anik many pages back) the one on the bottom is 2k and the one on top is 7M (in line with the post by anik on page 5)

looking at the first picture you can see that the one in the second image is the same as the top one on the first picture.
looks like it to me too.

That is even more special, and tragic seeing it there.  If they would be even willing to consider a refurbishment-to-flight, I'd donate right now.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/18/2010 12:48 PM
looking at the first picture you can see that the one in the second image is the same as the top one on the first picture.

You're absolutely right. Anik (and NK) wrote an erroneous caption on page 3, but I didn't see he corrected himself on page 5 !  :D

I correct my post.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 08/14/2010 08:00 PM
nice movie about buran
http://www.buran.ru/video/avi/grachev_DivX.avi
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lars_J on 08/16/2010 10:17 PM
Wow, nice footage. The RD-0120 flame output is mighty impressive.

Some dark humor at the end of the video. Sad scenes.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ugordan on 08/17/2010 02:23 PM
The RD-0120 flame output is mighty impressive.

That's the RD-170 flames. RD-0120 plume is mostly invisible, as with SSME.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pm1823 on 08/24/2010 07:43 PM
nice movie about buran
http://www.buran.ru/video/avi/grachev_DivX.avi


song from the movie
http://russmus.net/song.jsp?song=S:496992736#eng

Lonely Bird

Translation by miconazole

Lonely bird, you soar high
In the moonless night's coal-black skies
Thrust into a tempest
Of vagabonds and dogs
Your beautiful wings spread

You have no fledglings
You have no nest
The stars beckon you to the invisible world
And in your eyes lies unearthly sorrow.
You are a strong bird, but I feel for you.

Lonely bird, you fly high
And it took a madman to fall in love with you -
To climb, following you
To climb, following you
And together, to fall
Together with you
Together

Black angel of sorrow, let us rest
We'll sit in these branches
Together in silence.
What is there in the sky that is worth
Our fall to the rocks below?

Lonely bird, you fly high
And it took a madman to fall in love with you -
To climb, following you
To climb, following you
And together, to fall
Together with you
Together
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Bernie Roehl on 09/29/2010 02:11 PM
Came across this link:

http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/1090-buran-prinesennyiy-v-zhertvu.html (http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/1090-buran-prinesennyiy-v-zhertvu.html)

I don't read Russian -- can somebody who does tell us if this is what it appears to be?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danderman on 09/29/2010 02:16 PM
Its a low fidelity model of Buran, and not in the garbage, but also not transported very well.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Frandolf on 09/29/2010 02:50 PM
Yes, looks like OK 2-01.

My knowledge is from here:

http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-201-exterieur.php (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-201-exterieur.php)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: William Graham on 09/29/2010 04:24 PM
Buran itself was destroyed several years ago when its hangar collapsed.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 09/29/2010 10:07 PM
OK 2-01 should be in a museum as should be done with Ptichka. 

Speaking of Buran look at this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKs0TOjX9LU&feature=related
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 09/29/2010 11:30 PM
The was no Ptichka.

Please, read the Buran thread at http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=636.0
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 10/02/2010 10:11 PM
Came across this link:

http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/1090-buran-prinesennyiy-v-zhertvu.html (http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/1090-buran-prinesennyiy-v-zhertvu.html)

I don't read Russian -- can somebody who does tell us if this is what it appears to be?


Actually, this is what was supposed to become the third flight vehicle (3K). It's been sitting on the banks of the Moscow River since October 2004, not far from the manufacturing plant in Tushino. The second flight vehicle (2K, sometimes mistakenly identified as "Ptichka" ("Birdie"), which actually was a general nickname for Soviet orbiters) is in storage at the Assembly and Fueling Facility (MZK) at Baikonur.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 10/15/2010 12:31 AM
I noticed these versions of Buran in the 3D models at http://www.buran.ru/htm/3d-model.htm

What were the  changes between these  versions and the present Buran that did fly?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lars_J on 10/15/2010 02:01 AM
The OS-120 is described here: http://www.buran.ru/htm/os-120.htm  (use http://translate.google.com to translate the page for you, just enter the URL)
 - It looks like a much closer copy of our Shuttle, with three main engines in the body of the orbiter. But the major difference looks like two solid LAS engines mounted at the engine roots.

The OK-94 is described here: http://www.buran.ru/htm/ok-92.htm
 - It had two jet engines for go-around capability in landing (this was also planned for the final Buran, but dropped - it could have been a future enhancement) It also appears to have had just one large LAS engine, mounted in the center of the tail.

I'm not sure how far these proposals were considered, or how serious they were.

And google translate rocks!  ;D (BTW, if you use the latest Chrome browser, it will offer to translate pages for you automatically, it is built in)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 10/15/2010 01:52 PM
I see.

I apologise on the mistake earlier, Ptichka is OK 1.02 http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele-102.php

You know for the test vehicles like OK-M, perhaps a shelter should be built around them to protect it from the elements. Recall the Saturn V at Huston is now. I saw a documentary bit on that Saturn V and nature did take it's toll on the rocket. Thick aluminum turned to dust in places, corrosion. That would be nice seeing the remaining Buran orbiters not left to the open air and let nature destroy them. Some are in storage centers, yes. Though others like OK-M and OK 2.01 are left to fall apart. Sad. 

IMO OK-2.01 would make a cool exhibit piece for a museum. :)  I'd love to see it with one of the US shuttles side by side. The Smithsonian would make a great home for it.

I wonder why the Russian shuttle has extra nozzles for the nose jet steering as seen at http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-consti.php 

Videos someone posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-y8X9bmXQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT_3laD0bw0&feature=related
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 10/24/2010 03:40 PM
Guys checkout this persons amazing 3D models of Buran http://kulch.spb.ru/

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/3d-bur05.jpg 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Satori on 11/12/2010 01:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2SLnyX8qNY&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lars_J on 11/12/2010 04:07 PM
Wow, lots of Buran footage in that video I had never seen before - Thanks!

BTW, what LV/payload is shown between 2:26-2:42? It is a winged stage/rocket/payload launching in a sidemounted configuration which I have never seen before.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JayP on 11/12/2010 04:31 PM
Wow, lots of Buran footage in that video I had never seen before - Thanks!

BTW, what LV/payload is shown between 2:26-2:42? It is a winged stage/rocket/payload launching in a sidemounted configuration which I have never seen before.

It's a Burya cruise missile. It was a competiter to a program that was originally called "Buran". I assume that is what the reference is to.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/burya.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Prospero on 11/14/2010 11:32 AM
Thanks for the great vid Satori - just a shame that there aren't any english subtitles, as I'd love to know what they're saying without having to learn Russian first ;)

Mark
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 11/16/2010 01:03 AM
I'd love to see it with one of the US shuttles side by side. The Smithsonian would make a great home for it.
I'm sure they could find a decent exhibition space in Moscow for it, once you hand over Enterprise or one of the real orbiters. ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Frandolf on 01/20/2011 06:19 AM
I don't know if it was already linked here, but I found a page with pics of the present state of the Buran launch complex:

http://www.themysteryworld.com/2010/12/abandoned-remains-of-russian-space.html (http://www.themysteryworld.com/2010/12/abandoned-remains-of-russian-space.html)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 06/22/2011 02:17 PM
Buran spacecraft (3K, 2.01) will be displayed on Moscow aerospace salon (MAKS-2011) in August. Today he was loaded on ship. Tomorrow he will arrive to Zhukovskiy.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 06/22/2011 05:04 PM
Will someone be at MAKS-2011 and take some pictures?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 06/24/2011 05:46 PM
Images of transportation of Buran (3K, 2.01) spacecraft from Moscow to Zhukovskiy.
Source:
http://tushino.livejournal.com/239296.html
http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/4656/
http://zyalt.livejournal.com/416590.html
http://ridus-news.livejournal.com/254328.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/24/2011 06:39 PM
Given the state she's in, Zhukovsky should keep her and fix her up...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: stefan1138 on 06/25/2011 09:42 AM
That is heartbreaking to see...

How and in which function will she be displayed during the MAKS?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 06/25/2011 01:23 PM
     They could replace all those missing tiles, bolt on the wings, give her a fresh paint-job with 'Buran" on the side like OK-ML and the one in Gorky Park and presto!  There'd be *three* Soviet shuttles for gullible tourists to gawk at thinking it was *the* Buran :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/25/2011 02:18 PM
Soviet shuttles for gullible tourists to gawk at thinking it was *the* Buran :)
That'd only work in Oz! ;D
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 06/25/2011 08:09 PM
Sad, at first I thought she would go to the scrap yard.

I wonder if any of the Buran mock ups will make it to the US? *shrugs* Place it near one of the US shuttle mock ups. :)

I am also curious, is the nose of the Buran shuttle longer than that of the US shuttle or are they the same size?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/25/2011 09:26 PM
I am also curious, is the nose of the Buran shuttle longer than that of the US shuttle or are they the same size?
Get your ruler out! ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Soyuz%2C_Space_Shuttle%2C_Buran_comparison.svg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Soyuz%2C_Space_Shuttle%2C_Buran_comparison.svg)

http://geduldloos.com/wp-content/uploads/buran-vs-shuttle-large.jpg (http://geduldloos.com/wp-content/uploads/buran-vs-shuttle-large.jpg)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: nacnud on 06/26/2011 02:00 AM
     They could replace all those missing tiles, bolt on the wings, give her a fresh paint-job with 'Buran" on the side like OK-ML and the one in Gorky Park and presto!  There'd be *three* Soviet shuttles for gullible tourists to gawk at thinking it was *the* Buran :)

I'm much rather they stabilise the decay and explain her history, it is far more interesting to see her structure and what economics can do to aspirations.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: simonbp on 06/26/2011 04:35 PM
I'm much rather they stabilise the decay and explain her history, it is far more interesting to see her structure and what economics can do to aspirations.

While there are always purists who say that, most of public (i.e. the paying customers) want to see things in museums in like-new state. It just looks nicer. And thus nearly all aviation museums that can show totally aircraft that are at least cosmetically restored. I can only imagine the Russians would like to do the same, especially with the flight Buran...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Liss on 06/26/2011 05:51 PM
Two more good long photo reports:

http://riverforum.ru/showthread.php?t=389
http://ru-cosmos.livejournal.com/790413.html

And a large image of Buran passing Kremlin and going to the east:

http://pics.livejournal.com/vasilymaximov/pic/001z2gh5.jpg

To put the story into context, Buran 2.01 was to be Russian
equivalent of Discovery, the first orbiter of second production batch.
As opposite to 1.01 and 1.02 built and flown to Baykonur, 2.01 has
never seen her official rollout from the Tushino plant.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 06/27/2011 12:32 AM
     simonbp, you do realize the 'flight' Buran was destroyed in a hanger roof collapse..?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 06/27/2011 01:51 AM
     simonbp, you do realize the 'flight' Buran was destroyed in a hanger roof collapse..?

But it could still be restored.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 06/27/2011 11:15 AM
     Probably be cheaper to build a new one from scratch. 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 06/27/2011 11:38 AM
     Probably be cheaper to build a new one from scratch. 

Some glue, some sandpaper, it should be fine!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 06/27/2011 11:33 PM
What is the diameter of the boosters and core stage of the Energia rocket in feet? I'm trying to draw plans  to help build a 1/72 scale model of the Energia-Buran vehicle. There already is a kit for Buran, but not the Energia rocket.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 06/28/2011 10:41 PM
Boosters (Zenit, basically) 3.9m = 12.47
Core, I think: 7.75m = 25.43
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danderman on 06/29/2011 12:00 AM
What is the diameter of the boosters and core stage of the Energia rocket in feet? I'm trying to draw plans  to help build a 1/72 scale model of the Energia-Buran vehicle. There already is a kit for Buran, but not the Energia rocket.

Or, you could buy a Russian model.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Dyna-Soar on 06/29/2011 02:38 AM
There is also a paper kit available:
http://www.cardmodels-r.narod.ru/index-e.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danderman on 06/29/2011 05:37 PM
There is also a paper kit available:
http://www.cardmodels-r.narod.ru/index-e.htm

With a ruler, I guess pretty good dimensions for any Russian rocket could be obtained from that site.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: charleymcguffin on 08/03/2011 10:00 AM
Bit of a long shot..but has anyone got a transcript (in english) of the fantastic history of the "BURYA" missile posted on Buran.ru on the 30/7/2011
http://www.buran.ru/htm/video.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JAFO on 08/26/2011 01:16 PM
I know the Buran landed autonomously, but what about the approach? How did it figure out which runway and traffic patter to make? Was the info uploaded before the deorbit burn or after reentry, or some other way?

TIA,

Steve
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 08/26/2011 08:18 PM
I know the Buran landed autonomously, but what about the approach? How did it figure out which runway and traffic patter to make? Was the info uploaded before the deorbit burn or after reentry, or some other way?

According to what I remember, the airstrip was instrumented with a sort of ILS. Yet, it had some degree of decision making. In the only flight, everybody expected it to approach on one direction, but the system calculated (correctly) to go in the other direction to bleed off a lot of speed. It was a point of particular pride to their designers.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lewis007 on 08/28/2011 06:31 AM
Some pictures of the Buran shuttle (3K, 2.01) after its quick renovation prior to its display at MAKS 2011. Only one side was renovated...

Source: http://www.buran-energia.com/blog/category/bourane/buran-ok-201/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 09/02/2011 04:47 PM
Photos of 2K (1.02, Burya) spacecraft: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/6061/
Photos of 4MT (0.15, OK-MT) mockup: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/di8ch/
Photos of MZK building: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/a5h67/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Prober on 09/06/2011 04:48 PM
Photos of 2K (1.02, Burya) spacecraft: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/6061/
Photos of 4MT (0.15, OK-MT) mockup: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/di8ch/
Photos of MZK building: http://public.fotki.com/burannow/a5h67/

thanks for the links.  Much cleanup has been done.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 09/12/2011 09:07 AM
     Still looks a god-awful mess.  Grime and dust everywhere.  Lord knows how bad it must have been...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 11/02/2011 12:55 PM
Buran pilot Ivan Bachurin dies


According to a post on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum former Buran piloted Ivan Bachurin died in September in what appear to have been unusual circumstances. Even the exact date of his death appears to be unknown. In 1987-1988 Bachurin flew six approach and landing tests with the BTS-002 Buran vehicle together with Aleksei Borodai. Later he also trained for a mission to dock a Soyuz vehicle with an unmanned Buran orbiter. Unlike the civilian Flight Research Institute (LII) pilots of Igor Volk’s “Wolf Pack”, Bachurin was an Air Force test pilot of the Chkalov State Red Banner Scientific Test Institute (GKNII) in Akhtubinsk.


Bart Hendrickx

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 11/22/2011 05:17 PM
Hidden away at Siberian Aeronautical Research Institute named after S. A. Chaplygin
Buran rudder (or is it ??? as I didnt hear of anything leaving baikonur/mik 112)

via:
http://englishrussia.com/2011/11/16/aeronautical-research-institute-named-after-chaplygin/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Mark Dave on 01/16/2012 11:52 PM
Will the Buria come out of storage someday for the public to see? Perhaps put her in a museum?

I did this sketch of a dream some of us would love to see happen. http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/013/d/3/two_shuttles_at_iss_by_onigojirakaiju-d4m6xol.jpg

I also think if Buran did return, she would look like this. Notice the current Russian flag and the Roscosmos logo. http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/057/d/a/buran_shuttle_profile_by_onigojirakaiju-d3afjug.jpg

I think it would have been amazing to see both fleets in space together. A friend of mine even made a sketch of that. http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/010/1/8/184c39aa93b5038f830634e4a00ff2bf-d4lwqbi.png

Has the debris from where Buran, orbiter OK-1:01 's tragic collapse removed or is it still there years later?

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: kirghizstan on 06/21/2012 12:12 PM
Is this an arm design intended for Buran?

(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-19.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-20.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-21.jpg)

source: http://englishrussia.com/2012/06/12/debunking-myths-of-the-tower/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/21/2012 12:17 PM
Here are some information about the arm (in Russian, but online translators should help you understand it): http://www.buran.ru/htm/bighand.htm (http://www.buran.ru/htm/bighand.htm)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ares67 on 06/22/2012 07:55 PM
Those of you interested in the Soviet Buran program may want to have a look at this kind of coda to my recent STS-26 thread:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29198.420
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 10/15/2012 04:04 PM
Another Buran on the move... hopefully not towards 'destructive restoration'... ; http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_10-15-03.jpg
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 10/16/2012 01:01 PM
10/15/2012.
In the RSC "Energia" moves to a new location poster mock shuttle "Buran"

The program of technical modernization of RSC "Energia", carried out in favor of transfer of production base of the modern technological level and the increased volume of work performed under contracts of different customers, carried the movement of the poster layout shuttle orbiter (OK) "Buran" out of control and test center ( Hall factory complex tests and final product assembly manned subjects) in the areas adjacent to the housing center.

Full-scale model glider ship was delivered in August 1983, RSC "Energia" (then "Energia") as the lead agency for QA "Buran" to retrofit a comprehensive stand Orbiter (KS-OK), intended for complex testing of electrical circuits ship with pneumatic systems, including the testing of the interaction of the systems on board OK for simulating normal operation and in the calculation of emergency situations as well as to check the electrical connections to the equivalent analog OK launch vehicle (LV), the completion of software of, modes of preparation and launch, maintenance documentation, training and education of professionals involved in the preparation and flight test vehicle.

To move the KS-OK from the hall to perform a complex area of ​​dismantling the airframe and some vehicle systems, increased opening in the wall at the center of the body dimensions of the fuselage and the complex of rigging and transport operations using special techniques for large bulky cargo.

Later, after the required amount of work on conservation KS-OK it will be installed on a specially prepared site area RSC "Energia".


For your information:
1.NPO "Energy" (now RSC "Energia") in 1974-1992. Leading the project of Russian Buran reusable space system "(" Energia-Buran "), including its pH" Energy "and reusable OK" Buran "in general.
2.Elektricheskie test KS-OK began in March 1984 and continued around the clock seven days a week in 1600 days. Greater efficiency at COP OK ensured a high level of automation of tests (80% of total work). Booth played a crucial role in the safety and shorten ground preflight OK "Buran", to reduce the costs of material resources to build a ship.

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/photo_10-15.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 10/17/2012 12:42 AM
     Silly question, what with these being on a Russian site, but it sure would be nice to have some of these in hi-res.  First time I've seen any views other than from the front...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 11/15/2012 01:11 PM
On this day in 1988 Buran was launched......
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 01/14/2013 01:47 PM
Some questions about the tests of Buran's ejection seats have been bothering me for some time. Maybe some people here can help and shed some light on this?

A short introduction first: The Soviets planned to fly some manned test missions, with ejection seats installed for the two crewmembers, just similar to Columbia's four test missions.
For this, the basic K-36 ejection seat had to be modified (e.g. installation of a small solid-fuel rocket motor and additional stabilization system, etc.). The modified model was called K-36RB or K-36M11F35.
To test this modified model at high altitudes and high velocities, seats with "Ivan Ivanovich" test dummies clad in "Strizh" pressure suits were carried on five Progress missions (Progress-38 to 42) as piggyback payloads and ejected at altitudes from 35 to 40 km and speeds from Mach 3.2. The seat was installed inside the launch escape tower.

My questions:
Where and in which position (angle) exactly has the seat been installed? Are there any pictures, photos or drawings that show the installation?
At what attitude were the seats ejected?
What were the results of each of these tests? Are there any reports or descriptions available on the internet? Any photos?

I only know of a story of a guy who was in the search party for one of the tests, supposedly Progress-40, which would have been the third test. He says that after the first tests the dummies had burns, and concludes that something did not work right. There is also this photo he made when they found the dummy after the test on Progress-40. As you can see, the dummy is still strapped to the seat. It seems that at least the man/seat separation system did not work.
You can find the story here: http://www.buran.ru/htm/memory23.htm
Also, a high-res version of the photo is available there.
This is the page that says that the photo is from Progress-40: http://www.buran.ru/htm/katapu.htm (at the bottom of the page)
(Both pages are in Russian, but you can easily translate them via any online translator.)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 01/14/2013 02:40 PM
And some more mystery about Buran's ejection seats:
Some books and reports about Buran indicate that the Soviets also planned to fly some test missions with four crewmembers, with ejection seats for all of them, of course. The two additional ejection seats would have been installed on the middeck, all the way forward, right behind the forward bulkhead. They would have been fired upwards through hatches or blow-out panels in front of the flightdeck windows.

I am not sure if this is really true, as I have never seen any inidcation of the presence of such hatches or panels in front of the flightdeck windows. There are quite a lot of drawings and even photos of the several flight-articles in different states of completion around, which show such hatches for the seats on the flightdeck, but none of them shows even the slightest hint of such panels or hatches for the middeck seats.
So, is this true or is this just a myth or a phantasy, maybe born from wishful thinking?
Are there any photos or original drawings showing such panels? Or are there any reliable reports that would confirm this?

In recent years some people (including at least one cosmonaut!) had even claimed that Buran would have had ejection seats on regular flights as well, for up to 8 or 10 crewmembers, including those on the middeck, which would have been ejected sideways... This is rubbish, IMHO...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 03/30/2013 08:00 AM
A question about testing a scale model of Buran:
I recently read that the smaller a re-entry vehicle is, the hotter it will become on re-entry.

First: could anyone try and explain that to me? It seems counter-intuitive; a smaller body radiates heat easier than a large-volume one, doesn't it? That is why elephants need big ears as radiators and mice don't...

Second: if size has such an influence, what sense was there in testing the Buran subscale version BOR-5? Behaviour of the TPS would not have been comparable to the full-scale version.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/24/2013 03:43 PM
Is this an arm design intended for Buran?

(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-19.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-20.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-21.jpg)

source: http://englishrussia.com/2012/06/12/debunking-myths-of-the-tower/
http://www.city-data.com/forum/aviation/1715346-systems-reusable-space-shatll-nergy-buran.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/25/2013 07:18 AM

Zero-G,Yes, it is true, he had a couple of security systems. 1 - it can undock from the carrier energy. (It could take a plane and had a rocket - jet propulsion system. With still no where. Other words he  fly like a plane in the air and in space like a rocket. 2 - Yes, he  a system ejection seats. I want to explain what was built 5 working machines (5 Buranov.) Each had its own characteristics and was used as a flying laboratory. Today-One storm is on the Spaceport-Baykanul. second - is in a museum in Germany (the one that was in Australia). third-was destroyed (the roof hangar fell on him) the fourth in Moscow. fifth was built by 30-50 percent.
To rescue the crew of "Buran" on the stage of flight tests (LCI) in KB "Star" under the leadership of Guy Severin, on the basis of well-established family of ejection seats K-36 was developed by a special modification of the ejection seat K-36RB Class "0-0 "(with the possibility of salvation in a wide range of altitudes and speeds, ranging from ejection from the stands at the start of the runway or the" Buran "and up to Mach 3.5 at an altitude of 35 km)..
http://www.buran.ru/htm/katapu.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/25/2013 07:26 AM
I want to add that the system Energy Buran was not the first. Long before the flight Shatll in the Soviet Union were the various systems that have been built and operated.  You  cann't see in my first post here.
Just want to say that for the first time design the shuttle Buran and Shull showed Yuri Gagarin, even at the university and led the layout of the shuttle. That just cann't see the photos.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/25/2013 10:16 AM
today
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/25/2013 10:17 AM
today
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GreyKarast on 06/25/2013 10:19 AM
today
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SpacexULA on 07/15/2013 05:03 PM
Some recent images posted of Buran/Energia

http://timetrader.tumblr.com/post/55503620907/old-pictures-from-baikonur-cosmodrome
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 07/25/2013 12:33 AM
Buran, Buran - Russia's Forgotten Space Shuttles

This is a pretty informative video that pretty much covers the entire program and includes some pretty rare video and photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-0hiWAf_I
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: thomson on 07/26/2013 08:44 AM
I've stumbled upon those photos. I haven't seen them before, but I haven't gone through the whole Buran thread, just couple pages of recent posts.

http://xgoweb.com/rare-photos-of-space-shuttle-buran/

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 07/26/2013 06:27 PM
I've stumbled upon those photos. I haven't seen them before, but I haven't gone through the whole Buran thread, just couple pages of recent posts.

http://xgoweb.com/rare-photos-of-space-shuttle-buran/



These are SO cool!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SalemHanna on 07/31/2013 06:12 PM
I've stumbled upon those photos. I haven't seen them before, but I haven't gone through the whole Buran thread, just couple pages of recent posts.

http://xgoweb.com/rare-photos-of-space-shuttle-buran/



These are SO cool!

Some of them are well-known CGI fakes (the daytime launch etc) but I love the genuine ones!

Buran was a cool but pointless ship. Energia, on the other hand, should never have been scrapped.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Andy DC on 08/07/2013 04:03 PM
Buran, Buran - Russia's Forgotten Space Shuttles

This is a pretty informative video that pretty much covers the entire program and includes some pretty rare video and photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-0hiWAf_I

Such a shame to see them in that state.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ronpur50 on 08/10/2013 01:21 PM
I have just spent the last several days reading through this thread about the tragedies and triumphs of Buran.  Very awesome to see so many fans of this shuttle.  I remember reading of her in Aviation Week back in the late 1980s. 

Does anyone know the names of those lost when the hanger collapsed?  I always feel we should remember not only the astronaut/cosmonauts that are lost but those who are lost on the ground.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 08/11/2013 01:03 AM
I have just spent the last several days reading through this thread about the tragedies and triumphs of Buran.  Very awesome to see so many fans of this shuttle.  I remember reading of her in Aviation Week back in the late 1980s. 

Does anyone know the names of those lost when the hanger collapsed?  I always feel we should remember not only the astronaut/cosmonauts that are lost but those who are lost on the ground.

The only Russian Shuttle lost during the hangar collapse was Buran. The only Russian shuttle to fly into space.

The others were not in the hangar when it collapsed.

The others were named:

OK-1K2 Ptichka (95%-97% complete) [little Bird in english]
OK-2K1 Baikal (30%-50% complete) [Also known as Shuttle 2.01]
Shuttle 2.02 (10%-20% complete)
Shuttle 2.03 (dismantled)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Ronpur50 on 08/11/2013 02:56 AM
I have just spent the last several days reading through this thread about the tragedies and triumphs of Buran.  Very awesome to see so many fans of this shuttle.  I remember reading of her in Aviation Week back in the late 1980s. 

Does anyone know the names of those lost when the hanger collapsed?  I always feel we should remember not only the astronaut/cosmonauts that are lost but those who are lost on the ground.

The only Russian Shuttle lost during the hangar collapse was Buran. The only Russian shuttle to fly into space.

The others were not in the hangar when it collapsed.

The others were named:

OK-1K2 Ptichka (95%-97% complete) [little Bird in english]
OK-2K1 Baikal (30%-50% complete) [Also known as Shuttle 2.01]
Shuttle 2.02 (10%-20% complete)
Shuttle 2.03 (dismantled)

I actually meant the names of the workers.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: fregate on 08/11/2013 02:22 PM
I have just spent the last several days reading through this thread about the tragedies and triumphs of Buran.  Very awesome to see so many fans of this shuttle.  I remember reading of her in Aviation Week back in the late 1980s. 

Does anyone know the names of those lost when the hanger collapsed?  I always feel we should remember not only the astronaut/cosmonauts that are lost but those who are lost on the ground.

The only Russian Shuttle lost during the hangar collapse was Buran. The only Russian shuttle to fly into space.

The others were not in the hangar when it collapsed.

The others were named:

OK-1K2 Ptichka (95%-97% complete) [little Bird in english]
OK-2K1 Baikal (30%-50% complete) [Also known as Shuttle 2.01]
Shuttle 2.02 (10%-20% complete)
Shuttle 2.03 (dismantled)

I actually meant the names of the workers.
FYI orbiter Baikal was invented by V.Luckashevich, author of buran.ru website as April Fool joke :)   
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 08/11/2013 08:45 PM
Baikal was the name originally painted on the first flight vehicle, but it was later changed into Buran. Before that Buran had not been the name of a specific orbiter, but had been used for many years as a generic name for the combination of rocket and orbiter. Buran-T had been the generic name for the combination of the rocket and an unmanned cargo canister. The name Energiya for the rocket was not coined until its maiden flight with the Polyus payload in May 1987. 

There are several pictures and even footage of the first flight vehicle with the name Baikal painted on it. You can see them here on Vadim Lukashevich's Buran website :
 
http://www.buran.ru/htm/baikal.htm

Now don't believe anything that is written on this page : it is an April Fool's joke where Lukashevich "reveals" a supposedly covered up mission of the second flight vehicle on 4 February 1992. Lukashevich used a mix of real and photoshopped pictures to illustrate his joke. The pictures showing the supposed launch and landing of Baikal are of course fake, but the pictures and footage on top of the page are real : they show the first flight vehicle (not the second one) with the name Baikal painted on the side.

The other orbiters were never officially named. A persisent rumour that keeps surfacing again and again is that the second flight vehicle was named Ptichka ("Birdie"), but that is not true. That was a nickname used by engineers to refer to orbiters in general.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: the_other_Doug on 08/11/2013 09:19 PM
No one seems to be understanding Ronpur50's meaning.  He wants to know if any human beings were killed in the roof collapse, and is saying that, if there were, they should be remembered with the same respect as those who have died in flight.

-Doug
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 08/12/2013 12:08 AM
I have just spent the last several days reading through this thread about the tragedies and triumphs of Buran.  Very awesome to see so many fans of this shuttle.  I remember reading of her in Aviation Week back in the late 1980s. 

Does anyone know the names of those lost when the hanger collapsed?  I always feel we should remember not only the astronaut/cosmonauts that are lost but those who are lost on the ground.

The only Russian Shuttle lost during the hangar collapse was Buran. The only Russian shuttle to fly into space.

The others were not in the hangar when it collapsed.

The others were named:

OK-1K2 Ptichka (95%-97% complete) [little Bird in english]
OK-2K1 Baikal (30%-50% complete) [Also known as Shuttle 2.01]
Shuttle 2.02 (10%-20% complete)
Shuttle 2.03 (dismantled)

I actually meant the names of the workers.

OH!!

I know that 8 workers were killed. But I've never seen their names.. anywhere.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 08/12/2013 12:14 AM
I recently had some fun with Google Earth, and found these locations. I figured I would post them.

1st picture: The collapsed hangar in 2012.

2nd picture: This is a full scale model of Ptichka nearby the hangar in 2006. The model has since been removed.

3rd picture: Buran test model OK-M in 2012.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 08/12/2013 09:46 PM
I recently had some fun with Google Earth, and found these locations. I figured I would post them.

1st picture: The collapsed hangar in 2012.

2nd picture: This is a full scale model of Ptichka nearby the hangar in 2006. The model has since been removed.

3rd picture: Buran test model OK-M in 2012.

Actually, the 2nd and 3rd picture both show OK-M. For years OK-M sat exposed to the elements on the platform that was used for test firings of Buran's propulsion systems and auxiliary power units. After so many years in the open air, it was in a sorry state. See pictures taken in 2002 here :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/sk.htm#004

On 19 February 2007 the vehicle was removed from the platform and parked next to the Baikonur museum, where it was completely refurbished. See pictures of the transfer to the museum and the refurbished vehicle here :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto26.htm

As for the names of the people killed in the collapse of the assembly building roof, I doubt if any more information was given on them other than that they were Kazakh construction workers. According to Vadim Lukashevich's website there was another victim later the same day : the guy of TsSKB/Progress who was responsible for the repair work on the roof died of a heart attack. His name *is* mentioned, namely Aleksandr Kostyshev.

http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto7.htm

And to come back to my earlier post about the name Baikal : from footage on Lukashevich's website it can be determined that the name of the first flight vehicle was changed from Baikal to Buran in May 1988.

The vehicle still had the name Baikal painted on it when it underwent test firings of its propulsion system and auxiliary power units at Baikonur between 25 April and 9 May 1988 :
 
http://www.buran.ru/htm/video7.htm
(see clips 3 (test firings) and 4 (preparations for the test firings)

Later that month (on 23 May) the vehicle was rolled out with Energiya 1L for a series of pad tests and by this time it was called Buran :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/video8.htm
(clip 4)

There's more amazing declassified footage of Energiya and Buran on the website's video archive. Worth checking out.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Overflow on 08/13/2013 04:30 PM
I recently had some fun with Google Earth, and found these locations. I figured I would post them.

1st picture: The collapsed hangar in 2012.

2nd picture: This is a full scale model of Ptichka nearby the hangar in 2006. The model has since been removed.

3rd picture: Buran test model OK-M in 2012.

Actually, the 2nd and 3rd picture both show OK-M. For years OK-M sat exposed to the elements on the platform that was used for test firings of Buran's propulsion systems and auxiliary power units. After so many years in the open air, it was in a sorry state. See pictures taken in 2002 here :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/sk.htm#004

On 19 February 2007 the vehicle was removed from the platform and parked next to the Baikonur museum, where it was completely refurbished. See pictures of the transfer to the museum and the refurbished vehicle here :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto26.htm

As for the names of the people killed in the collapse of the assembly building roof, I doubt if any more information was given on them other than that they were Kazakh construction workers. According to Vadim Lukashevich's website there was another victim later the same day : the guy of TsSKB/Progress who was responsible for the repair work on the roof died of a heart attack. His name *is* mentioned, namely Aleksandr Kostyshev.

http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto7.htm

And to come back to my earlier post about the name Baikal : from footage on Lukashevich's website it can be determined that the name of the first flight vehicle was changed from Baikal to Buran in May 1988.

The vehicle still had the name Baikal painted on it when it underwent test firings of its propulsion system and auxiliary power units at Baikonur between 25 April and 9 May 1988 :
 
http://www.buran.ru/htm/video7.htm
(see clips 3 (test firings) and 4 (preparations for the test firings)

Later that month (on 23 May) the vehicle was rolled out with Energiya 1L for a series of pad tests and by this time it was called Buran :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/video8.htm
(clip 4)

There's more amazing declassified footage of Energiya and Buran on the website's video archive. Worth checking out.



Now this is something I'm glad to be corrected on!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/15/2013 03:51 AM
Bump for the 25 anniversary of Buran's spaceflight (November 15, 1988 - liftoff at 03:00 UTC, wheels stop at 06:25 UTC).
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 11/15/2013 03:12 PM
November 15, 2013 is the 25th anniversary of the first and only flight of the Soviet space shuttle Buran ("Snowstorm").

The patch shows the pre-dawn launch of the Energia-Buran complex; the name of the spaceship in the font that was used on its fuselage and the date of the launch. In the sky, two large stars and five smaller ones depict the 25 years since the event. The double red border represent the two orbits Buran flew around Earth before returning to the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

The patch is 10 cm in diameter and will be available later this month from spacepatches.nl
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/16/2013 02:44 AM
And to mark the 25th anniversary, here's what is surprisingly our first Buran article!

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/remembering-buran-shuttles-estranged-soviet-cousin/

Many thanks to Nickolai for his help with the article!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hyperion5 on 11/16/2013 07:18 AM
And to mark the 25th anniversary, here's what is surprisingly our first Buran article!

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/remembering-buran-shuttles-estranged-soviet-cousin/

Many thanks to Nickolai for his help with the article!

A very enjoyable read for people like me interested in Russian and Soviet spaceflight. 

Quote from: Chris Bergin
When faced with the requirement to make a 200mt thrust LOX/LH2 engine, in tandem with reusability, the Soviets decided to ditch the reusable requirement. ...  The immense power of the Energia provided a capacity to place about 100 tonnes in Low Earth Orbit (LEO), up to 20 t to the geostationary orbit (GEO) and up to 32 t to a translunar trajectory.

Actually Chris that's only partially correct, and it makes the Energia & Buran history even more interesting.  I've talked to several experts on Russian space vehicles about the Energia before, including fregate, Anatoly Zak of Russiaspaceweb.com and Dmitry Vorontsov, and they say the boosters were intended to be reusable.  It's why they have those large bulges near the top to store their parachutes and also why the RD-170 engine was rated for up to 10 uses.  Had the Soviets decided to use a fully expendable design with expendable boosters, the payload to LEO would have jumped dramatically.  Dmitry Vorontsov (Dmitry_V_Home) claims an Energia with expendable boosters and an inline PLF would be capable of launching 126 mt to LEO from Baikonur.  Of this increase, the vast majority would be due to the lessened booster weight, while a few mt would be gained by streamlining the rocket.  Recently there's been a proposal for a rocket that's basically an inline Energia with expendable boosters: the Yenisei-5.  http://www.russianspaceweb.com/yenisei5.html  It's rated to launch 125 mt using the near exact same launch mass as the Energia but with 4 expendable Zenit boosters and 3 RD-0120 engines instead of 4 on an Energia-size core.  So it looks like Dmitry was correct after all.  If the Energia's boosters weren't meant to be reusable, it would have out-lifted a Saturn V to LEO.  It makes me wonder if such an Energia would have allowed a Buran to launch with more than the normal max of a 30 mt internal payload.  Anyone have the expertise to know if the Buran could have handled it? 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 11/16/2013 09:34 AM
And to mark the 25th anniversary, here's what is surprisingly our first Buran article!

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/remembering-buran-shuttles-estranged-soviet-cousin/

Many thanks to Nickolai for his help with the article!

A very enjoyable read for people like me interested in Russian and Soviet spaceflight. 

Quote from: Chris Bergin
When faced with the requirement to make a 200mt thrust LOX/LH2 engine, in tandem with reusability, the Soviets decided to ditch the reusable requirement. ...  The immense power of the Energia provided a capacity to place about 100 tonnes in Low Earth Orbit (LEO), up to 20 t to the geostationary orbit (GEO) and up to 32 t to a translunar trajectory.

Actually Chris that's only partially correct, and it makes the Energia & Buran history even more interesting.  I've talked to several experts on Russian space vehicles about the Energia before, including fregate, Anatoly Zak of Russiaspaceweb.com and Dmitry Vorontsov, and they say the boosters were intended to be reusable.  It's why they have those large bulges near the top to store their parachutes and also why the RD-170 engine was rated for up to 10 uses.  Had the Soviets decided to use a fully expendable design with expendable boosters, the payload to LEO would have jumped dramatically.  Dmitry Vorontsov (Dmitry_V_Home) claims an Energia with expendable boosters and an inline PLF would be capable of launching 126 mt to LEO from Baikonur.  Of this increase, the vast majority would be due to the lessened booster weight, while a few mt would be gained by streamlining the rocket.  Recently there's been a proposal for a rocket that's basically an inline Energia with expendable boosters: the Yenisei-5.  http://www.russianspaceweb.com/yenisei5.html  It's rated to launch 125 mt using the near exact same launch mass as the Energia but with 4 expendable Zenit boosters and 3 RD-0120 engines instead of 4 on an Energia-size core.  So it looks like Dmitry was correct after all.  If the Energia's boosters weren't meant to be reusable, it would have out-lifted a Saturn V to LEO.  It makes me wonder if such an Energia would have allowed a Buran to launch with more than the normal max of a 30 mt internal payload.  Anyone have the expertise to know if the Buran could have handled it? 


Just to sort out the confusion:
You are talking about the RD-170 engine which burns Kerosene and LOX. It was installed on the boosters ("Block A"), which were designed to be reusable. But the four Blocks A used for this mission were not reusable yet, because the recovery systems had not been installed. The designers planned to install recovery systems on Blocks A for following missions, which unfortunately never happened.
The sentence you quoted from Chris' article is mentioning a LOX/LH2 engine. This is the RD-0120 engine which was installed on the core stage ("Block Z"), and, as Chris mentions correctly, it was not designed to be reusable.

I don't know if Buran could have carried a lot more than the 30 mt it was designed for, if it were launched on a stronger LV, but I would doubt it: Buran WAS designed for a payload of 30 mt. So, to raise that, its structure would have to be beefed up, which also added weight. Besides: You said that one of the advantages of the improved LV would be a streamlined inline PLF. I agree with that, but you are certainly going to loose that advantage if you are launching Buran the way it was launched. And to launch it on top of the LV to reduce drag, would be a whole new game, needing further structural redesign.
Just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: saturnapollo on 11/16/2013 12:02 PM
Great article. Always liked the Buran/Energia combination. Looks really powerful.

Quote
Lagging behind the United States in their design of large Solid Rocket motors, an early decision was made to utilize liquid propulsion to power the stack off the launch pad.

I would have thought the very opposite. Having liquid boosters is surely more advanced than STS.

Keith

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nickolai on 11/16/2013 01:10 PM

Just to sort out the confusion:
You are talking about the RD-170 engine which burns Kerosene and LOX. It was installed on the boosters ("Block A"), which were designed to be reusable. But the four Blocks A used for this mission were not reusable yet, because the recovery systems had not been installed. The designers planned to install recovery systems on Blocks A for following missions, which unfortunately never happened.
The sentence you quoted from Chris' article is mentioning a LOX/LH2 engine. This is the RD-0120 engine which was installed on the core stage ("Block Z"), and, as Chris mentions correctly, it was not designed to be reusable.


That's correct, I mentioned that to Chris in the first place and I was referring specifically to the requirement of making the LOX/LH2 engines re-usable, which the Soviets decided not to attempt, at least not at first, due to their lack of experience with the propellant combination.

The boosters were indeed meant to be reusable and so were the booster engines, the RD-170's. I believe they were designed for up to 10 firings.

The Soviets did consider quite seriously making reusable LOX/LH2 engines and mounting them on the orbiter: http://www.buran.ru/htm/os-120.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Finn on 11/16/2013 05:32 PM
Does the last picture in the article show OK-1K2?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 11/16/2013 08:21 PM
Does the last picture in the article show OK-1K2?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=636.msg608151#msg608151
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 11/16/2013 08:26 PM
P.s.

The "birdie" name is a myth, its a generic term used by the Russians for the orbiters that got wrongly translated by western media, as indicated here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=636.msg643909#msg643909

"The second flight vehicle (2K, sometimes mistakenly identified as "Ptichka" ("Birdie"), which actually was a general nickname for Soviet orbiters) is in storage at the Assembly and Fueling Facility (MZK) at Baikonur."

If you are wondering about the guy posting that info, it's Bart, the guy who co-wrote this book:
http://www.springer.com/engineering/mechanical+engineering/book/978-0-387-69848-9
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Rocket Science on 11/17/2013 12:25 AM
Great read Chris! :) I would have liked to have seen her go operational side by side with Shuttle and what advantages and pitfalls would have come her way. We are just left to speculate on what might have been. My lasting memory will be her autolanding on her return to Earth...  8)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Phillip Clark on 11/17/2013 09:41 AM
P.s.

The "birdie" name is a myth, its a generic term used by the Russians for the orbiters that got wrongly translated by western media, as indicated here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=636.msg643909#msg643909

"The second flight vehicle (2K, sometimes mistakenly identified as "Ptichka" ("Birdie"), which actually was a general nickname for Soviet orbiters) is in storage at the Assembly and Fueling Facility (MZK) at Baikonur."

If you are wondering about the guy posting that info, it's Bart, the guy who co-wrote this book:
http://www.springer.com/engineering/mechanical+engineering/book/978-0-387-69848-9

I had always assumed that the "birdie" name came from the Soviets referring to the orbiters as "birds" the same way that in the United States launch vehicles are sometimes referred to as "birds".   Neither implies a presence of feathers or an evolution from dinosaurs. ;-)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 11/19/2013 02:32 AM
RD-0120 ended up rated at 170tnf at SL, and that's why it had to take four.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: woods170 on 11/19/2013 08:48 AM
Great article. Always liked the Buran/Energia combination. Looks really powerful.

Quote
Lagging behind the United States in their design of large Solid Rocket motors, an early decision was made to utilize liquid propulsion to power the stack off the launch pad.

I would have thought the very opposite. Having liquid boosters is surely more advanced than STS.

Keith


Why is it that people keep associating solid propulsion with "less advanced" and liquid propulsion with "more advanced"?
The number of moving parts on a given mechanical systems says exactly zero about how advanced that system is.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Kaputnik on 11/19/2013 08:47 PM
According to this article:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_starts_ambitious_super_heavy_space_rocket_project_999.html
Buran executed a fly-around before landing. I am not entirely convinced that is true! Any thoughts?


Secondly, and I have tried to find an answer to this a long time ago with no luck, are there are any flightworthy RD 0-0120 engines in storage?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Danderman on 11/19/2013 10:15 PM
An old video about Buran control systems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqq3EJYBZtY

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 11/20/2013 09:34 AM
According to this article:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_starts_ambitious_super_heavy_space_rocket_project_999.html
Buran executed a fly-around before landing. I am not entirely convinced that is true! Any thoughts?

No, this is not true. Buran did not have any jet engines installed on its maiden flight. The flying characteristics were quite similar to the Shuttle, though Buran had a slightly better Lift/Drag ratio. Anyway, just like the Shuttle, Buran had to glide in for the landing, with only one chance to get it right the first time, as it lacked the ability to go around for a second try.
Buran made an unexpected change of its approach tactic quite late in the descent though: While on a downwind course to the HAC that would have led Buran in a left-hand turn to the final approach path, the onboard computers of the auto-land system decided that the other HAC would be more favorable under the current wind conditions. So, Buran executed a 90 degree left-hand turn to cross the runway center-line and enter the other HAC, which led it in a right-hand turn to the same approach path. (see pics below)
So, it was not a go-around or a second approach, just a last-minute change of mind.

IMHO a lot in that article is just plain propaganda, not based on any facts.


This map shows Buran's actual flight path in red:
The wind was blowing from southwest with 20 meters per second.
(Credit: buran.ru)
(http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/landg4m.jpg)


HAC and final approach path:
The little light blue arrow in the lower left corner indicates the wind direction in relation to the runway.
(Credit: buran.ru)
(http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/shelm2.gif)


You can find more info about Buran's first flight here: http://www.buran.ru/htm/flight.htm including bigger versions of the two pics. The site is in Russian, but can be translated with any online translator.
And here is more about the landing: http://www.buran.ru/htm/landing.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Davp99 on 11/20/2013 02:30 PM
When Buran Landed, there was quite the char colored remnants on her fuselage and upper tail ...something I never saw on the Shuttles...or not as deep as Buran.. did anyone else notice this ?

Dave
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Dmitry_V_home on 11/20/2013 02:32 PM
Development of an aerodynamic configuration of the Buran project
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 11/20/2013 03:48 PM
When Buran Landed, there was quite the char colored remnants on her fuselage and upper tail ...something I never saw on the Shuttles...or not as deep as Buran.. did anyone else notice this ?

Dave

If you mean the brownish colors on the fuselage sides and the tail: This was attributed to the exhaust plume impingement of the small solid rocket separation motors of the four Block A boosters.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JAFO on 11/20/2013 04:10 PM
One thing that always struck mewas the different location of the nose gear. Wonder why they went with a more aft one, maybe it had to do with the flying versions? With the location of the nose gear on the American Shuttle it would have been harder to rotate to a flying attitude.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: saturnapollo on 11/20/2013 06:46 PM
Quote
Why is it that people keep associating solid propulsion with "less advanced" and liquid propulsion with "more advanced"?
The number of moving parts on a given mechanical systems says exactly zero about how advanced that system is.

Nothing to do with the amount of moving parts.

One of the early designs of the shuttle if I remember correctly had liquid boosters and there were certainly further investigation in later years on the basis of safety, in that liquid boosters can be shut down if there is a problem whereas once a solid is lit you are stuck with it until it burns out. By that alone I would say that liquids were more advanced in that they are more flexible in operation.

The shuttle programme would have loved to have had liquids and only budgetary reasons were solids forced upon them.

Keith
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 11/21/2013 09:42 AM
One thing that always struck mewas the different location of the nose gear. Wonder why they went with a more aft one, maybe it had to do with the flying versions? With the location of the nose gear on the American Shuttle it would have been harder to rotate to a flying attitude.

I don't know the general reason for the different location, but if by "flying version" you mean the "Buran Analog" BTS-002 (OK-GLI) which was used for the development and tests of the auto-land system, and was equipped with four jet engines to allow it to take off under its own power: It had a longer nose gear strut than the orbiters for exactly this reason - to facilitate rotation on take-off.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 11/21/2013 03:11 PM
Great article. Always liked the Buran/Energia combination. Looks really powerful.

Quote
Lagging behind the United States in their design of large Solid Rocket motors, an early decision was made to utilize liquid propulsion to power the stack off the launch pad.

I would have thought the very opposite. Having liquid boosters is surely more advanced than STS.

Why is it that people keep associating solid propulsion with "less advanced" and liquid propulsion with "more advanced"?
The number of moving parts on a given mechanical systems says exactly zero about how advanced that system is.
At least in the Energyia case, they developed the RD-170, which was arguably the most powerful (liquid) and advanced rocket every developed (by that time). The only engine that might challenge the advanced assertion was the SSME.
And the Blok A boosters were designed to be reused with land touchdown, which had needed not only parachutes, but special dampers. Also, they were the basis of the Zenit-2, arguably, the most modern LV in the Soviet/Russian manifest, at least until Angara actually debuts. All was significantly more complicated and technologically more challenging than the SSSRM. The technological challenges of the latter were more of scale than new subsystems. They didn't even used HTPB.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Davp99 on 11/21/2013 03:23 PM
Thanks Zero-G
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JAFO on 11/22/2013 07:37 AM
One thing that always struck mewas the different location of the nose gear. Wonder why they went with a more aft one, maybe it had to do with the flying versions? With the location of the nose gear on the American Shuttle it would have been harder to rotate to a flying attitude.

I don't know the general reason for the different location, but if by "flying version" you mean the "Buran Analog" BTS-002 (OK-GLI) which was used for the development and tests of the auto-land system, and was equipped with four jet engines to allow it to take off under its own power: It had a longer nose gear strut than the orbiters for exactly this reason - to facilitate rotation on take-off.

Yes, I meant the Buran Analog, thanks. I can understand the longer nose strut for that reason, wonder why they went with a more aft location that on the US version.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Prober on 11/23/2013 06:48 PM
Is this an arm design intended for Buran?

(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-19.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-20.jpg)
(http://media.englishrussia.com/112012/rtk/towerrtk001-21.jpg)

source: http://englishrussia.com/2012/06/12/debunking-myths-of-the-tower/

Looks like some of the links in this thread are no longer working.   Better to repost the pics to preserve them.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Prober on 11/27/2013 01:33 AM
Sorry if this is a double post never seen this much detail on Buran.

http://youtu.be/YaZKZ95PFFE
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 12/29/2013 05:54 PM
Some nice Buran processing images in this roscosmos video, heck even dreamchaser gets a tiny appearance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inPXDmqiM3s
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: brahmanknight on 12/29/2013 07:56 PM
Sorry if this is a double post never seen this much detail on Buran.

http://youtu.be/YaZKZ95PFFE

Fantastic find!

The only way to make it better would be if it was in English, but I'm happy. 

And wow at the guys riding the access arms while they were moving into to mate with Energia and Buran.  I just don't see that being allowed here in the States.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: saturnapollo on 12/29/2013 11:42 PM
Great video. Thanks for posting. Really liked the all too short clip of undocking from the ISS. Shows there is good quality Russian video of the station - out there somewhere!

Keith
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 06/04/2014 11:15 PM
Ran into this video on You Tube.  I've never seen it before.  Hope others enjoy.

Battle for the space shuttle Russian History:

Published on Feb 23, 2013
No description available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAq4an0sd9c
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Negative Return on 06/06/2014 03:09 AM
Awesome video. There were several moments when I especially wished it was in English -- the early discussion of Star Wars and the reaction to Challenger. Great find, catdlr.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 06/06/2014 09:01 AM
Old Buran Launch pad from Aleksandr Zheleznyakov facebook page.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: OV135 on 06/08/2014 11:49 PM
Sad this program is gone.  The sister orbiter mothballed and dirty.  (personally the second orbiter should be cleaned up for museum display like our shuttles are. )

Visitors will see Buran's sister behind a plexiglass wall. The orbiter sitting similar to how Atlantis is perched like she is flying. 

On a space modelling view. I hope Revell makes a 1/72 scale kit of the Buran/Energia. :) 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pagheca on 06/09/2014 12:04 AM
Sorry if this is a double post never seen this much detail on Buran.

Super-beatiful. Thanks!

A question: at 08:50 they zoom on a detail of the Energya rocket. Does someone know why?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/09/2014 01:43 PM
Sorry if this is a double post never seen this much detail on Buran.

Super-beatiful. Thanks!

A question: at 08:50 they zoom on a detail of the Energya rocket. Does someone know why?

This was a device needed for the pre-launch alignment of the core stage's inertial guidance platforms. It should have retracted from the rocket with a swing arm about 50 seconds before launch, but failed to do so, scrubbing the launch attempt on 29 October 1988.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 06/10/2014 08:15 PM
Buran Building with no roof.....  :'(  from Aleksandr Zheleznyakov facebook page.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Paul Howard on 07/13/2014 09:26 AM
That's not present day is it? They wouldn't have left it like that?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 07/13/2014 11:41 AM
That's not present day is it? They wouldn't have left it like that?

These pictures were taken in May 2014.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lobo on 07/14/2014 06:36 PM
Crazy that they just let it sit out there to rot...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 07/14/2014 06:41 PM
Parts of the Energia first stage booster were outside the building in 2004; those are gone now. And I am pretty sure most parts of Buran itself have been removed.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 08/10/2014 03:48 PM
Pictures found on Twitter (ShuttleAlmanac), showing what is accordingly a 1:3 scale model of OK-GLI.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 09/11/2014 03:52 AM
Buran - Russia's Abandoned Space Shuttles

Published on Sep 10, 2014
by: The Air Show

Rewind Wednesday. This episode: Buran - the 'one hit wonder' of the Soviets space program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74uJRG0d7Ag

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 10/23/2014 09:46 AM
Some nice photos from Pavel Vinogradov facebook page
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 11/29/2014 12:37 PM
A picture of the pure-white Buran on pad.

Is it OK-ML1 (the one which is now in Baykonur museum) ?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 12/01/2014 09:35 AM
A picture of the pure-white Buran on pad.

Is it OK-ML1 (the one which is now in Baykonur museum) ?

My understanding is that the "all-white" Buran test model is OK-MT (also known as vehicle 4M, 4MT or 0.04). It does have a black nose cap and black tiles around the entry hatch. It currently resides in the Assembly and Fuelling Building (MZK), where it sits next to the second flight vehicle. The OK-ML1 vehicle (also known as 1M, OK-M and 0.01) had black tiles on the lower part of the forward fuselage (but no black tiles around the entry hatch). It was repainted after being moved to its current location near the Baikonur museum in 2007.

Although the picture is not clear enough to tell for sure, I also have the impression this is the "all-white" vehicle, in other words OK-MT. The picture was clearly taken during the late spring or summer. According to information from Boris Gubanov's memoirs, the OK-MT vehicle was on pad 37 from 5 May until 14 May 1987 and also from 28 May until 29 June 1987, so my best guess is that the picture was taken somewhere between late May and late June 1987. However, I should add that there is a lot of conflicting information on roll-out and roll-back dates for the Buran test models. Apparently, most of the documentation concerning these vehicles has gone missing or been destroyed, making it difficult to accurately reproduce their history.


Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 01/29/2015 09:26 PM
Just stumbled on this one.  I don't think it provides any more that what we know, but  there may be some new views.

Russian Buran SPACECRAFT Russia's version of US NASA Space shuttle.

Published on Sep 4, 2014
The Buran spacecraft was the Russian version of the US NASA space shuttle. The Buran spacecraft (Russian: Бура́н, IPA: [bʊˈran], Snowstorm or Blizzard), GRAU index 11F35 K1 was a Soviet orbital vehicle analogous in function and design to the US Space Shuttle and developed by Chief Designer Gleb Lozino-Lozinskiy of RKK Energia. Buran completed one unmanned spaceflight in 1988 and remains the only Soviet space shuttle that was launched into space, as the Buran programme was cancelled in 1993. It was treated as a Soviet space shuttle but only the plane itself was theoretically reusable (and in fact, it was never reused). The main part of the system was just an expendable powerful rocket - Energia.

A Buran spacecraft was destroyed in 2002 at the Baikonur Cosmodrome, when the hangar in which it was stored collapsed.[3]
The Buran orbital vehicle program was developed in response to the U.S. Space Shuttle program, which in the 1980s raised considerable concerns among the Soviet military and especially Defense Minister Dmitriy Ustinov. An authoritative biographer of the Russian space program, academic Boris Chertok, recounts how the program came into being.[4][full citation needed] According to Chertok, after the U.S. developed its Space Shuttle program, the Soviet military became suspicious that it could be used for military purposes, due to its enormous payload, several times that of previous U.S. spaceships. The Soviet government asked the TsNIIMash (ЦНИИМАШ, Central Institute of Machine-building, a major player in defense analysis) for an expert opinion. Institute director, Yuri Mozzhorin, recalls that for a long time the institute could not envisage a civilian payload large enough to require a vehicle of that capacity. Based on this, as well as on US profitability analyses of that time, which showed that the Space Shuttle would be economically efficient only with a large number of launches (one every week or so), Mozzhorin concluded that the vehicle had a military purpose, although he was unable to say exactly what. The Soviet program was further boosted after Defense Minister Ustinov received a report from analysts showing that, at least in theory, the Space Shuttle could be used to deploy nuclear bombs over Soviet territory. Chertok recounts that Ustinov was so worried by the possibility that he made the Soviet response program a top priority.[citation needed]
Russia Listeni/ˈrʌʃə/ or /ˈrʊʃə/ (Russian: Россия, tr. Rossiya, IPA: [rɐˈsʲijə] ( listen)), also officially known as the Russian Federation[10] (Russian: Российская Федерация, tr. Rossiyskaya Federatsiya, IPA: [rɐˈsʲijskəjə fʲɪdʲɪˈrat͡sɨjə] ( listen)), is a country in northern Eurasia.[11] It is a federal semi-presidential republic, comprising 83 federal subjects. From northwest to southeast, Russia shares land borders with Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland (both with Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea. It shares maritime borders with Japan by the Sea of Okhotsk and the US state of Alaska across the Bering Strait. At 17,075,400 square kilometres (6,592,800 sq mi), Russia is the largest country in the world, covering more than one-eighth of the Earth's inhabited land area. Russia is also the world's ninth most populous nation with 143 million people as of 2012.[12] Extending across the entirety of northern Asia and much of Eastern Europe, Russia spans nine time zones and incorporates a wide range of environments and landforms.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is the agency of the United States government that is responsible for the nation's civilian space program and for aeronautics and aerospace research.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower established the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) in 1958[5] with a distinctly civilian (rather than military) orientation encouraging peaceful applications in space science. The National Aeronautics and Space Act was passed on July 29, 1958, disestablishing NASA's predecessor, the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA). The new agency became operational on October 1, 1958.[6][7]

Since that time, most U.S. space exploration efforts have been led by NASA, including the Apollo moon-landing missions, the Skylab space station, and later the Space Shuttle. Currently, NASA is supporting the International Space Station and is overseeing the development of the Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle and Commercial Crew vehicles. The agency is also responsible for the Launch Services Program (LSP) which provides oversight of launch operations and countdown management for unmanned NASA launches. Most recently, NASA announced a new Space Launch System that it said would take the agency's astronauts farther into space than ever before and lay the cornerstone for future human space exploration efforts by the U.S.[8][9][10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OW6G6IyK1E
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Buzz Lightyear on 04/20/2015 10:15 PM
Buran Building with no roof.....  :'(  from Aleksandr Zheleznyakov facebook page.

Oh wow! I had no idea they had left it like this. How tragic. Does anyone know when exactly the roof structure collapsed?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: NovaSilisko on 04/20/2015 10:19 PM
Buran Building with no roof.....  :'(  from Aleksandr Zheleznyakov facebook page.

Oh wow! I had no idea they had left it like this. How tragic. Does anyone know when exactly the roof structure collapsed?

2002 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/buran.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 06/04/2015 06:03 PM
Via Forum de la Conquete Spatiale: http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/219949.html

Brings a tear to your eye...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/04/2015 06:36 PM
Via Forum de la Conquete Spatiale: http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/219949.html

Brings a tear to your eye...

So sad! And very wrong! :(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Star One on 06/04/2015 06:56 PM
How could they be allowed to get into such a state.:(
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 06/04/2015 07:56 PM
How could they be allowed to get into such a state.:(

Money. The United States is rich. We've got a lot of money to spend on things that are not necessities, including museums and historic artifacts. As a result the U.S. is pretty good at preserving its aviation and space heritage. Nevertheless, even in the U.S. some things get neglected. The remaining Saturn V's were all rotting in the elements for decades before money was raised to preserve them indoors. But even today there is a first stage (S-IC) sitting exposed in Louisiana. Who is going to find the money to restore and protect that? Similarly, the first Boeing 747 was deteriorating for a very long time not very far from a major Boeing facility. Only recently has it been restored.

Russia doesn't have a lot of money, and Buran was a failed program with some really big artifacts that were not located in Russia. It's easy to understand how they abandoned the hardware.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Star One on 06/04/2015 08:38 PM

How could they be allowed to get into such a state.:(

Money. The United States is rich. We've got a lot of money to spend on things that are not necessities, including museums and historic artifacts. As a result the U.S. is pretty good at preserving its aviation and space heritage. Nevertheless, even in the U.S. some things get neglected. The remaining Saturn V's were all rotting in the elements for decades before money was raised to preserve them indoors. But even today there is a first stage (S-IC) sitting exposed in Louisiana. Who is going to find the money to restore and protect that? Similarly, the first Boeing 747 was deteriorating for a very long time not very far from a major Boeing facility. Only recently has it been restored.

Russia doesn't have a lot of money, and Buran was a failed program with some really big artifacts that were not located in Russia. It's easy to understand how they abandoned the hardware.

I suppose raising money from the citizenry would be a no go as well with other concerns on most people's plates.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JazzFan on 06/04/2015 09:40 PM
You are right and I wish that many of the new Russian elites would contribute some of their wealth to preserving their space history.  Now that the NASA shuttles are on track for preservation it would be great to get one of them into the US and preserved.  Just getting them out of their seems like a nightmare and you can't save everything space related but saving one in proper condition would be an outstanding achievement.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/04/2015 09:57 PM
You are right and I wish that many of the new Russian elites would contribute some of their wealth to preserving their space history.

There's been a long running rumor that Chelsea football (soccer) club owner Roman Abramovich is a space fan. He can afford to spend a billion dollars on new players....

(http://blog.oceanvillasgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/roman-abramovich-chelsea-football-club-300x222.jpg)

He's a Russian elitist and a half.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 06/04/2015 10:21 PM
I suppose raising money from the citizenry would be a no go as well with other concerns on most people's plates.

Today even less so than previously, because the Russian economy is in bad shape.

I also don't know if Russia even has the private institutions that can do this. It requires things like fund-raising and coordination, and it only works in countries that do not have high corruption rates. Getting back to the United States, there are a LOT of historic museum ships--five aircraft carriers are preserved as museums, for instance, along with something like eight battleships and numerous smaller ships. The fact that those exist is an indication of the amount of financial support that is available in the U.S. Russia has a much smaller economy, less money, and a lot of their space heritage (like the Burans before the roof collapse) is outside of their borders. So we cannot expect them to be able to preserve as much and as well. We're lucky they have preserved what they have of their proud spaceflight heritage.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: anik on 06/05/2015 11:29 AM
Again. These two spacecrafts are not a property of Russia. They were sold and belong to Kazakhstan.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Star One on 06/05/2015 11:57 AM

Again. These two spacecrafts are not a property of Russia. They were sold and belong to Kazakhstan.

So the basic point still stands be it whoever owns them.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: llanitedave on 06/05/2015 09:18 PM
You are right and I wish that many of the new Russian elites would contribute some of their wealth to preserving their space history. 


Considering how many of them acquired their wealth, you can guess that they'd prefer to forget history.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: spaceStalker on 06/07/2015 12:59 PM
In gods bedroom.
Photo journey in buran's lair. All in russian.

http://fishki.net/1558039-v-spalne-boga.html (http://fishki.net/1558039-v-spalne-boga.html)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/08/2015 12:08 AM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: slavnus on 06/08/2015 04:13 PM
I have very interest soviet doc movie about Baikonur 1985 year (30 year)

http://i.uralweb.ru/albums/fotos/f/647/64703c831f8276bff94bb27388e3003c.jpg
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DatUser14 on 06/08/2015 04:40 PM
I have very interest soviet doc movie about Baikonur 1985 year (30 year)

http://i.uralweb.ru/albums/fotos/f/647/64703c831f8276bff94bb27388e3003c.jpg (http://i.uralweb.ru/albums/fotos/f/647/64703c831f8276bff94bb27388e3003c.jpg)
This is a .jpg, not any sort of video file.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: topsphere on 06/11/2015 01:15 PM
The Daily Mail (!) has picked up on this now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3119861/Russia-s-forgotten-space-agency-Haunting-images-reveal-two-abandoned-Soviet-shuttles-rotting-giant-derelict-hangar.html

Apparently these two derelict vehicles are called "Burya" and "OK-MT".
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 06/12/2015 01:49 PM
Burya construction was at 97% when the project was cancelled. I still can't believe why the Kazakhstan government haven't sold at lest one of them to a museum, like they did with the OK - GLI that was sold to the Technikmuseum Speyer in Germany.
I don't know if they could do it, but Burya next to a Shuttle would be the most unique space display in the world.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: woods170 on 06/12/2015 01:58 PM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.

Emphasis mine.
Bold statement for a system that flew exactly once and never proved it's worth.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: woods170 on 06/12/2015 02:07 PM
Burya construction was at 97% when the project was cancelled. I still can't believe why the Kazakhstan government haven't sold at lest one of them to a museum, like they did with the OK - GLI that was sold to the Technikmuseum Speyer in Germany.
Minor nit:
OK-GLI never was the property of Kazakhstan. It was sold by Russia to an Australian company in 1999/2000. Next it was sold to an investment group from Singapore. Speyer then finally bought it in 2004.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Damon Hill on 06/12/2015 10:02 PM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.

Emphasis mine.
Bold statement for a system that flew exactly once and never proved it's worth.


Certainly there were some things done differently, but as they shared essentially the same design concept, Shuttle and Buran were equally flawed, being extremely expensive heavy-lift systems with few (affordable) missions to justify their existence.  Shuttle, at least, ended up in museums as cherished historical relics.  Buran and Energia were dead ends, even though they could have been very capable systems.

I really think the Soviet Union would have been much better served to have pursued Zenit and the Zarya, a reusable "super Soyuz" as their manned space program work horses.  But nationalistic egos led program priorities down an unsustainable path.

--Damon
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: ngilmore on 06/13/2015 04:18 PM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.

Emphasis mine.
Bold statement for a system that flew exactly once and never proved it's worth.


Well, NASA has validated the Buran system design decision by moving the engines to the bottom of the fuel tank in the EnergiyaSLS. That makes the Buran Orbiter design better because Buran didn't have expensive to refurbish and heavy engines accompany it to orbit and back.

And the DOD thought highly enough of the booster engines to use the direct descendant engine RD-180 for US national security payloads for at least a decade - starting about two decades after the engine was first designed.

And the Shuttle never landed on autopilot. The shuttle required crews for all missions, including the initial test launch. The Energiya booster could be used for cargo only deliveries so both parts of their system were crew-optional.

So the collapse of the Soviet Union shouldn't be the factor that denigrates the design of the Buran system.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jtrame on 06/13/2015 09:05 PM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.

Emphasis mine.
Bold statement for a system that flew exactly once and never proved it's worth.


Well, NASA has validated the Buran system design decision by moving the engines to the bottom of the fuel tank in the EnergiyaSLS. That makes the Buran Orbiter design better because Buran didn't have expensive to refurbish and heavy engines accompany it to orbit and back.

And the DOD thought highly enough of the booster engines to use the direct descendant engine RD-180 for US national security payloads for at least a decade - starting about two decades after the engine was first designed.

And the Shuttle never landed on autopilot. The shuttle required crews for all missions, including the initial test launch. The Energiya booster could be used for cargo only deliveries so both parts of their system were crew-optional.

So the collapse of the Soviet Union shouldn't be the factor that denigrates the design of the Buran system.

1. We'll never know what the reburbishment costs were for a Buran orbiter.  None were ever reflown.

2. The SMEs, a 30 year old + design, are thought highly enough to form the basis of SLS.

3. Sure, Shuttle C could have done that, it's purely conjecture just like the entire Energia/ Buran program is mostly hindsight conjecture.  Produce the history, produce the flights.

4. Autopilot is arguably the easiest problem to solve of all.  Just the fact that the Soviets did it proves that. 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Impaler on 06/14/2015 03:23 AM

1. We'll never know what the reburbishment costs were for a Buran orbiter.  None were ever reflown.

2. The SMEs, a 30 year old + design, are thought highly enough to form the basis of SLS.

3. Sure, Shuttle C could have done that, it's purely conjecture just like the entire Energia/ Buran program is mostly hindsight conjecture.  Produce the history, produce the flights.

4. Autopilot is arguably the easiest problem to solve of all.  Just the fact that the Soviets did it proves that.

1)   We know the refurbishment of Shuttle orbiter was horrendous, it is hard to imagine that Buran could have been worse, the Soviets are not known for making delicate machines.  Better knowledge of the durability of it's TPS would be needed to really answer this question with numbers rather then arm-waving.  The cost of the disposable portions of Buran is not known but we know the Soviets were very efficient in turning out expendable liquid rockets.

2)  Use of Shuttle components on SLS is a purely political decision made by congress not by engineers and we all know that.   Any rocket engineer will tell you that Russian rocket technology is STILL the best in the world, the fact that we buy ANY Russian rockets at all shows how superior it is.

3)  If producing flight history is your standard then their is no such thing as Shuttle C, it was never more then a paper rocket.  The Buran made a fully automated flight, deploying a payload once in orbit would be a rather trivial additional step and would not require a SpaceWalk.

4)  This statement simply reeks of arrogance, you do not asses if a task is easy because the Soviets did it, you have to actually use your brain and understand the engineering involved.  Soviet space program has already made more USE of automation because they are more engineer focused, American program has emphasized pilots because of the greater leverage of Air force 'fighter jock' culture.

The automation issue is largely a red herring as the American space shuttle was also capable of fully autonomous flight (the launch of both vehicles is autonomous as EVERY rocket system has always been), but the landing could be done either manually or automatically, the American crews simply never turned on the autopilot during the entire shuttle program.

The arguable technical superiority of Buran are high level design decisions, many of which parallel NASA's original concepts for shuttle which were curtailed for budgetary reasons.  These include having the primary rocket engines in the core booster rather then the orbiter (which greatly lightens the orbiter, raises payload and increases safety during entry).  And the use of a liquid side booster which increases safety during launch as solids are frankly unfit for human space flight.

The deficiencies of Buran are also high level design decisions, by NOT taking the cheap routes that NASA took the Soviets made their version of SLS, a completely unaffordable vehicle with no money left to make payloads, a fate the Americans just barely managed to avoid with the shuttle by combining their space station ambitions with Russia to create a viable destination and use for the shuttle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Damon Hill on 06/14/2015 04:05 AM
A cargo-only Shuttle orbiter was considered (NOT Shuttle-C) that would have eliminated crew systems and pressurized crew module, to lengthen the cargo bay and appreciably increase payload.  Converting an existing orbiter was possibly an option, but wasn't considered worth the cost.  Shuttle-C reached mockup level, but again wasn't considered worth the investment because of insufficient real payloads to justify it.

Deploying payloads from the Shuttle seldom required a space walk; the few that did were rescue/repair flights that required crews anyway.

Updated SSMEs eliminated the expensive rebuilds, though removal and visual inspection was still done for safety reasons.  More than a few SSME upgrades were to make the engines more robust for safety reasons than for direct cost reductions.   Energia was supposed to be developed for more reusability, but it never happened and ended up throwing away a lot of expensive launch system on the only two flights that it made.  You can't point to any one thing in Shuttle and Buran as a principle cost burden, though; they were overall expensive systems by any measure.

Shuttle did, at least, recover and reuse the SSMEs and SRBs; whether or not that was a real savings is still being argued.

What was the enduring legacy of Energia/Buran?  Wasn't Zenit, really; that's essentially been scuttled.  Mostly some individual systems development, perhaps the most notable being the descendents of the high performance RD-170 kero/lox engines.  For all that investment, Russian manned spaceflight survived on legacy systems: R-7, Proton for the heavy lifting, and Soyuz, with some modest accomplishments.

And in the US, it looks like we'll be relying a lot on SpaceX for affordable manned spaceflight.  SpaceX has done it on a relatively modest budget and if their first stage reusablity and crew Dragon come to full fruition, that might bring manned spaceflight to a new era of growth and accomplishment.  We'll see how it works out by the end of the decade, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nibb31 on 06/15/2015 05:50 AM
Thanks SpaceStalker, great pics (though not much has changed). I hope Russia can find them a good home, as they were the superior orbiters.

Emphasis mine.
Bold statement for a system that flew exactly once and never proved it's worth.


Well, NASA has validated the Buran system design decision by moving the engines to the bottom of the fuel tank in the EnergiyaSLS. That makes the Buran Orbiter design better because Buran didn't have expensive to refurbish and heavy engines accompany it to orbit and back.

The whole point of a Space Shuttle was to bring back those engines, because they were the most expensive parts of the stack.

If you don't bring back the engines, then what you get is just a very expensive reusable payload fairing.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: sghill on 06/16/2015 04:12 PM
The automation issue is largely a red herring as the American space shuttle was also capable of fully autonomous flight (the launch of both vehicles is autonomous as EVERY rocket system has always been), but the landing could be done either manually or automatically, the American crews simply never turned on the autopilot during the entire shuttle program.

Not really true.  The US shuttles were launched on auto pilot and returned on autopilot.  It was only the final approach that were stick-flown (and I'm not entirely sure some weren't flown all the way to the hardtop while on autopilot like any large commercial jet).

BTW, there are several dozen EXCELLENT photos on that aforementioned Russian Blog site of the inside and outside of the Soviet orbiters and VAB.  https://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/219949.html  The CIA would have paid millions for these photos back in the late 1980's, and the Soviets would have executed anyone for smuggling them!  The inside shots are particularly incredible.  The insides have held up well over 25 years.

In particular, check out the blow-away cabin roof and ejector seats on the flight deck.

It's amazing how far along the construction of the second production orbiter was- they could practically dust it off and go!  However, reading the text, the second (more complete) orbiter in the photos was one of the flight test articles- like Enterprise. 

I like that the incomplete second orbiter was named "Tempest"  (or "Storm").  Great name for an orbiter, IMHO.

Does anyone know what the red "package" is at the rear between the two OMS in the pics of both orbiters?  The piping is different on each orbiter, so I'm thinking its a removable jig for fueling each orbiter.  Kind of a plug it in, and fill all the various tanks at once doo-hickey.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: notsorandom on 06/16/2015 05:11 PM
Buran and the Shuttle of course invite comparison due to their similarities and different solutions to the same problems. While Buran had some particular advantages over STS I don't think those those advantages were enough to say that it would have accomplished what the shuttle couldn't. Both ended up being incredibly complex and expensive systems. In the end though STS was affordable for the USA and the Buran wasn't for the USSR. Even before the disintegration of the USSR their flight schedule showed only a few flights through the mid 90s. Safety might have been another issue. The Zenit never became very reliable and there were four Zenit like boosters per launch. When the Soviet Union collapsed not only did the money dry up so did Buran's military reason to exist.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 06/16/2015 11:03 PM
     A shame those pics aren't downloadable as full hi-res.  Maybe he hopes to sell big versions..?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: the_other_Doug on 06/17/2015 03:17 AM
The automation issue is largely a red herring as the American space shuttle was also capable of fully autonomous flight (the launch of both vehicles is autonomous as EVERY rocket system has always been), but the landing could be done either manually or automatically, the American crews simply never turned on the autopilot during the entire shuttle program.

Not really true.  The US shuttles were launched on auto pilot and returned on autopilot.  It was only the final approach that were stick-flown (and I'm not entirely sure some weren't flown all the way to the hardtop while on autopilot like any large commercial jet).

At least one Shuttle entry was flown "by hand" (from computer display output, I believe), from top to bottom.  It was a fairly early flight, but I don't recall which, at the moment.

The one thing that no Shuttle was ever rigged out to do, though, was to extend its landing gear automatically.  The gear could only be deployed by a manual actuator.  This was supposed to provide fool-proof assurance that the gear could not accidentally deploy due to any flight control system glitch while the orbiter was still in orbit -- an event that would have been ultimately fatal for the crew, since the gear could not be retracted without external hydraulic systems.

I'm sure the Shuttle could have been modified for automatic gear deploy and flown unmanned.  But I rather see the point of doing it the way they did it -- it would be a really, really bad day if a computer glitch performed a non-recoverable act.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rsnellenberger on 06/17/2015 05:37 PM

1)   We know the refurbishment of Shuttle orbiter was horrendous, it is hard to imagine that Buran could have been worse, the Soviets are not known for making delicate machines.  Better knowledge of the durability of it's TPS would be needed to really answer this question with numbers rather then arm-waving.  The cost of the disposable portions of Buran is not known but we know the Soviets were very efficient in turning out expendable liquid rockets.


There are many post-flight pictures which purport to show clear evidence of tile damage on Buran.  Google "buran tile damage" -- http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php, for example, shows a picture of three damaged tiles from"under the left wing" that may show structural damage.  I suppose we'll never really know whether the flaws were in the tiles, attachment, or some fundamental error in the heating analysis.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: woods170 on 06/17/2015 05:48 PM

1)   We know the refurbishment of Shuttle orbiter was horrendous, it is hard to imagine that Buran could have been worse, the Soviets are not known for making delicate machines.  Better knowledge of the durability of it's TPS would be needed to really answer this question with numbers rather then arm-waving.  The cost of the disposable portions of Buran is not known but we know the Soviets were very efficient in turning out expendable liquid rockets.


There are many post-flight pictures which purport to show clear evidence of tile damage on Buran.  Google "buran tile damage" -- http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php), for example, shows a picture of three damaged tiles from"under the left wing" that may show structural damage.  I suppose we'll never really know whether the flaws were in the tiles, attachment, or some fundamental error in the heating analysis.


In fact, the damage to the Buran TPS, as observed post-flight was significantly worse than the damage to Columbia's TPS as observed post-flight on STS-1.
But, post-flight analysis also showed that the acoustic environment of launching Buran on Energia was worse than initially predicted. Some of the tiles that let go were quite literally shaken-off on ascent.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: JAFO on 06/18/2015 05:55 AM

At least one Shuttle entry was flown "by hand" (from computer display output, I believe), from top to bottom.  It was a fairly early flight, but I don't recall which, at the moment.


STS-2, Joe Engle. Trivia- BGen Engle flew the M2F1 (ground tow only), X-15, Enterprise, Columbia, and Discovery.


He was also the only astronaut to call Eddy Tower for landing clearance. (STS-2)

[youtube]m4UbqZWE2SA[/youtube]




One comparison question about Buran vs STS: I know on STS the gear could only be manually extended, but what about the payload bay doors? In autoflight, were they automatically opened on Buran and STS, or ground commanded to open?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: sghill on 06/18/2015 12:31 PM
There are many post-flight pictures which purport to show clear evidence of tile damage on Buran.  Google "buran tile damage" -- http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php, for example, shows a picture of three damaged tiles from"under the left wing" that may show structural damage.  I suppose we'll never really know whether the flaws were in the tiles, attachment, or some fundamental error in the heating analysis.

Here's that left wing damage on Buran.  Yikes!!!

I'm glad it didn't "zipper" more tiles.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: baldusi on 06/20/2015 12:48 PM

1)   We know the refurbishment of Shuttle orbiter was horrendous, it is hard to imagine that Buran could have been worse, the Soviets are not known for making delicate machines.  Better knowledge of the durability of it's TPS would be needed to really answer this question with numbers rather then arm-waving.  The cost of the disposable portions of Buran is not known but we know the Soviets were very efficient in turning out expendable liquid rockets.


There are many post-flight pictures which purport to show clear evidence of tile damage on Buran.  Google "buran tile damage" -- http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php), for example, shows a picture of three damaged tiles from"under the left wing" that may show structural damage.  I suppose we'll never really know whether the flaws were in the tiles, attachment, or some fundamental error in the heating analysis.


In fact, the damage to the Buran TPS, as observed post-flight was significantly worse than the damage to Columbia's TPS as observed post-flight on STS-1.
But, post-flight analysis also showed that the acoustic environment of launching Buran on Energia was worse than initially predicted. Some of the tiles that let go were quite literally shaken-off on ascent.
They launched during a blizzard with hail. The really dangerous damage, the one that made plasma eat part of the Titanium frame, was made by a big chunk of ice. They had learned the Columbia lesson on the first launch.
BTW, using Titanium for the frame was the right choice. Another better trade that the Russians did. Not to mention that it was actually three separate sections.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 06/23/2015 10:24 PM
Did The Soviets Build A Better Shuttle Than We Did?

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/did-the-soviets-build-a-better-shuttle-than-we-did-1713379466

Quote
For some reason, my social media feeds lately have been filled with images of “Russia’s secret space shuttles” that have fallen into ruin. This is a little puzzling, since those shuttles haven’t been ‘secret’ for decades, and they’ve been in terrible condition for over 20 years. But that got me thinking — was it a better Space Shuttle than the American one?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 06/24/2015 01:11 PM
Did The Soviets Build A Better Shuttle Than We Did?

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/did-the-soviets-build-a-better-shuttle-than-we-did-1713379466


I've only skimmed this, but it seems like a decent comparison. I do think that the Soviet design had a lot of advantages. That said, I take issue with his comments about solid rocket boosters being unsafe. Statistically, they are no less safe than liquid rocket engines. As for the claim that liquid engines "can be turned off"--when have we ever done this? Rockets work, or they fail catastrophically, they are not the equivalent to airplanes where shutting off the engine allows you to glide.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: DaveS on 06/24/2015 01:32 PM
I've only skimmed this, but it seems like a decent comparison. I do think that the Soviet design had a lot of advantages. That said, I take issue with his comments about solid rocket boosters being unsafe. Statistically, they are no less safe than liquid rocket engines. As for the claim that liquid engines "can be turned off"--when have we ever done this?
How about Apollo 13? Center engine (Engine#5) on the S-II stage caused severe pogo and that nearly tore the thrust structure from the stage itself. I believe that was only seconds away from happening and it was only due to a LH2 Low Level Cut-Off sensor being tripped on the engine that caused the engine to shut down.

And if the thrust structure would have been severed from the stage structure, then the entire vehicle, including the CSM, would have been destroyed. There was no saving the crew as the automatic Emergency Detection System (EDS) had been deactivated prior to S-1C sep. From that point only manual abort activations were available through the abort handle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: malenfant on 06/24/2015 02:28 PM
... As for the claim that liquid engines "can be turned off"--when have we ever done this? ...
How about Apollo 13?...
Also STS 51-f
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: notsorandom on 06/24/2015 02:45 PM
The comparisons between Energia/Buran and STS invariably credit the Energia/Buran as being better because it disposed of the engines and could lift more. While the reuse of the SSME was almost as expensive than building new ones there is an advantage to reuse in terms of safety. The post flight inspections of the SRBs and SSMEs contributed to their safety records and informed upgrades. The ability to inspect flown hardware was considered so important that the Ariane 5's boosters were designed to be and were recovered.

The Energia used 8 high pressure staged combustion cycle engine every launch. Since there were only two launches not much can be statistically said about the reliability of the system. However the Zenit has launched many times. Being derived from the Energia boosters it is very similar. On the 14th flight the launch vehicle suffered a first stage engine failure. There were more failure before this one but this failure was specific to the first stage engine. Had that been the 14th booster Energia after the 8 successfully flown Energia would have experienced a failure on its 5th flight. Zenit's first stage would go on to fail three more times during the program of 82 launches. Each failure if translated to the Energia booster would have been a LOV/LOM event. Were there no coincident booster failures (ie the four failure happened on separate launches) the Energia booster package would have a failure rate approaching 1 in 5 missions.

That may sound a bit harsh as each failure would have triggered an accident investigation. However the Zenit failures happened though out the program and not just in the beginning. The engine continued to fail after multiple investigations.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: mtakala24 on 06/24/2015 06:58 PM
I remember reading that the fuel cells that Buran was to use, were better than the American shuttles had. Also the crew cabin was somewhat bigger in dimensions. Can someone confirm these claims?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 07/12/2015 04:24 PM
Btw: Ralph Mirebs has also posted photos of the Dynamic Test Stand, which still has an Energia-M mock-up residing inside: http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/220278.html
(I hope this hasn't been posted before. I did a quick search, which turned up nothing.)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: savuporo on 09/14/2015 10:50 PM
Buran wooden wind tunnel mockup has been making rounds in a few articles

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33104187@N04/sets/72157638216331125

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hog on 09/15/2015 10:14 PM

1)   We know the refurbishment of Shuttle orbiter was horrendous, it is hard to imagine that Buran could have been worse, the Soviets are not known for making delicate machines.  Better knowledge of the durability of it's TPS would be needed to really answer this question with numbers rather then arm-waving.  The cost of the disposable portions of Buran is not known but we know the Soviets were very efficient in turning out expendable liquid rockets.


There are many post-flight pictures which purport to show clear evidence of tile damage on Buran.  Google "buran tile damage" -- http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php), for example, shows a picture of three damaged tiles from"under the left wing" that may show structural damage.  I suppose we'll never really know whether the flaws were in the tiles, attachment, or some fundamental error in the heating analysis.


In fact, the damage to the Buran TPS, as observed post-flight was significantly worse than the damage to Columbia's TPS as observed post-flight on STS-1.
But, post-flight analysis also showed that the acoustic environment of launching Buran on Energia was worse than initially predicted. Some of the tiles that let go were quite literally shaken-off on ascent.
They launched during a blizzard with hail. The really dangerous damage, the one that made plasma eat part of the Titanium frame, was made by a big chunk of ice. They had learned the Columbia lesson on the first launch.
BTW, using Titanium for the frame was the right choice. Another better trade that the Russians did. Not to mention that it was actually three separate sections.
Speaking of Titanium construction,  I just saw a video about the USAs "Oxcart" SR-71/A-12/M-21&D-21 drone/F-21 programs.  In order to build these planes, it was necessary to procure Titanium from the Soviet Union.  The US sought Titanium from the very entity it was to primarily spy on.

Oxcart was "in process" during the late 50's early 60's with a 1st flight occurring in 1962.  Did the world Titanium market affect any engineering/design decisions in regards to using Titanium for the Orbiters during the late 60's when STS/SSP was underway?  Or was cost more of a factor. 
Working with Titanium is inherently more difficult than say Aluminum.  For the Oxcart planes, new tooling, technology and techniques were required as they simply didn't exist at the time.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rpapo on 09/16/2015 11:28 AM
Working with Titanium is inherently more difficult than say Aluminum.  For the Oxcart planes, new tooling, technology and techniques were required as they simply didn't exist at the time.
They discovered all sorts of things, as it was unexplored territory at the time.  Case in point: They were at first mystified as to why welds on titanium failed more frequently when they were done during the summer.  It turned out that there was extra chlorine in the water supply during the summer, and that interacted with the titanium welds, making them more brittle.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 09/24/2015 09:01 PM
15 years ago, taken during the Cluster 2 launch campaign, a peek inside MIK112 before the roof collapsed.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 10/28/2015 09:11 AM
My pictures of a BOR-4 lost in a Russian church, near Moscow :

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/vaisseaux/bor/visite/zhoukovski/zhoukovski.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Jester on 11/15/2015 06:51 PM
27 years ago today...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: OV135 on 08/15/2016 12:42 AM
What is to be done with Ptichka and OK-M in the Baikanour hanger?   Heck, I wish NASA would get Buran's sister and put her next to Atlantis. :) A nice compare and contrast of the shuttles of two nations side by side.



Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rpapo on 08/15/2016 11:52 AM
What is to be done with Ptichka and OK-M in the Baikanour hanger?   Heck, I wish NASA would get Buran's sister and put her next to Atlantis. :) A nice compare and contrast of the shuttles of two nations side by side.
IMHO, that would only happen if one of our shuttles went there, even though the comparison is not entirely apples to apples.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Hobbes-22 on 08/15/2016 05:21 PM
There is a precedent: OK-GLI (the aerodynamic test bed with jet engines) went to the Technikmuseum in Speyer, DE.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 10/07/2016 09:12 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/russische-space-wracks-die-gruft-des-weltraumzeitalters-fotostrecke-141484.html

New pictures of the two Buran vehicles inside the Assembly and Fueling Building (MZK) at Baikonur (the second flight vehicle and the OK-MT test vehicle). Also a picture of the Energiya-M mock-up inside the Dynamic Test Stand.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/15/2016 11:44 AM
And to mark the 25th anniversary, here's what is surprisingly our first Buran article!

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/remembering-buran-shuttles-estranged-soviet-cousin/

Many thanks to Nickolai for his help with the article!

28 years and this time marked by Roscosmos:

РОСКОСМОС
‏@roscosmos
28 лет назад впервые был произведен запуск многоразовой транспортной космической системы «Энергия-Буран».
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 02/01/2017 02:31 AM
First Soviet Space Shuttle (PROTOTYPE) story, start in 1957

Dan Beaumont Space Museum

Published on Jan 31, 2017
(RUSSIAN AUDIO) TV Roscosmos, January 31, 2017: In February 1957, 60 years ago, aircraft Tsybin Paul, who led OKB-256, was given the task to develop a planning spacecraft "PCA". It outputs to a height of 300 kilometers of the carrier rocket "Vostok". After orbital flight "PAC" had to return to Earth, planning in the dense layers of the atmosphere. During the descent, in the zone of intense thermal heating "RCA" would use the lift force of the original shape of the hull. This project Sergey Korolev gave an informal name of - "Lapotok".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsV_q8-hAyM?t=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsV_q8-hAyM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 03/06/2017 10:27 PM
This was posted today in the Russian section, but belongs in this thread. A video by two Russians who managed to sneak inside the abandoned MZK building at Baikonur that houses two Buran vehicles as well as the SDI test stand that houses a mock-up of the Energia-M launch vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMjEbtjUoM
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Archibald on 03/07/2017 08:58 AM
That's quite a stunning video. Love the part when they get inside the Buran.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Dmitry_V_home on 03/07/2017 04:55 PM
First Soviet Space Shuttle (PROTOTYPE) story, start in 1957

Dan Beaumont Space Museum

Published on Jan 31, 2017
(RUSSIAN AUDIO) TV Roscosmos, January 31, 2017: In February 1957, 60 years ago, aircraft Tsybin Paul, who led OKB-256, was given the task to develop a planning spacecraft "PCA". It outputs to a height of 300 kilometers of the carrier rocket "Vostok". After orbital flight "PAC" had to return to Earth, planning in the dense layers of the atmosphere. During the descent, in the zone of intense thermal heating "RCA" would use the lift force of the original shape of the hull. This project Sergey Korolev gave an informal name of - "Lapotok".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsV_q8-hAyM?t=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsV_q8-hAyM

Hmmmm.... "Lapotok" of Tsybin looked approximately so:
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: hoku on 05/26/2017 10:30 PM
Side-by-side comparison of Discovery OV-103 and the Buran aerodynamic testbed OK-GLI (based on images I took in 2013). I tried to show both at the same perspective.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Phillip Clark on 05/27/2017 03:35 AM
Former trainee for the Buran programme, cosmonaut Anatoli Artsebarsky will be talking about his Buran experiences at the British Interplanetary Society's Sino-Russian Technical Forum on June 3-4.

http://www.bis-space.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sino-Russian-Technical-Forum-Programme.pdf
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/13/2017 11:31 AM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4332198

Deputy Prime Minister Dmitri Rogozin paid a visit today to the MZK building at Baikonur which houses two Buran orbiters (one flight model, one test model). He says on Facebook the Buran launch complex will be turned into a space museum. No further details given. This is the picture he posted of today's visit to the MZK building.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/16/2017 10:50 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4342852

A full-scale test model of Buran (vehicle N° 003) now located on the premises of RKK Energia near Moscow will be  transported to Sochi on the Black Sea, where it will serve as an educational tool for children at the Sirius Education Center, which was set up several years ago on Putin's initiative using Olympic infrastructure. For many years the vehicle resided in a hangar at RKK Energia, but in 2012 it was parked outside to make room for other hardware. Also removed from the hangar was a full-scale model of the canceled Kliper spacecraft, which will also be placed at the Sirius Education Centre and has reportedly already been transported to Sochi. The Buran test model is expected to arrive in Sochi by mid-July and will be refurbished at RKK Energia's own expense.

Here's a photo of Buran N° 003 and Kliper when they were still standing side by side inside the hangar at RKK Energia.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Archibald on 06/17/2017 08:39 AM
Nice to see Russia preserving both spaceship mockups.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 06/17/2017 07:06 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4342852

A full-scale test model of Buran (vehicle N° 003) now located on the premises of RKK Energia near Moscow will be  transported to Sochi on the Black Sea
Just to keep things clear, could you give us the OK number/version? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/17/2017 10:54 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4342852

A full-scale test model of Buran (vehicle N° 003) now located on the premises of RKK Energia near Moscow will be  transported to Sochi on the Black Sea
Just to keep things clear, could you give us the OK number/version? Thanks!

It's OK-KS (KS standing for "kompleksnyy stend"). Delivered to NPO Energia in 1983. It was mainly used for electric and software tests. OK-KS also served a test bed to troubleshoot problems that cropped up during the construction of the first flight vehicle. Various software programs for the maiden flight of Buran were tested on OK-KS.

Here are more pictures of OK-KS when it was still inside the hangar at RKK Energia as well as a few pictures of the moment it was wheeled out of the hangar on 15 October 2012.

http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto32.htm
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GClark on 06/18/2017 05:44 AM
I've been meaning to ask...

I don't recall ever seeing any pictures of article 8M, the Crew Trainer that was supposedly at the GCTC.  What finally happened to it?

While I'm at it, what is the current status of 5M & 6M?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/18/2017 10:09 PM
I've been meaning to ask...

I don't recall ever seeing any pictures of article 8M, the Crew Trainer that was supposedly at the GCTC.  What finally happened to it?

While I'm at it, what is the current status of 5M & 6M?

8M, a crew cabin model used for "medical tests" and life support system tests, is now on the territory of the 83rd Clinical Hospital in Moscow. I've attached one picture from this series of photos :
http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/349824.html

Some sources say it was originally on the territory of the 29th Clinical Hospital, then moved to Star City and subsequently transferred to the 83rd Clinical Hospital. I'm not sure if that's correct.

5M (OK-TVA) was built for thermal, acoustic and static vibration tests at TsAGI. It was not assembled as a single vehicle, but split into several full-size sections that could be tested individually. All these sections have been destroyed, except for the left wing, which was installed on the Buran mock-up that for a long time was on display at Gorky park and is now at the VDNKh exhibition complex.

6M (OK-TVI) was used for thermal and vacuum tests at NIIKhimmash. NIIKhimmash hoped to display it at a space museum it intended to open on its premises, but that plan fell through and 6M was destroyed in late 2007.

These are all the surviving full-scale Buran vehicles and their current location:

- 2K (1.02) (second flight vehicle) : inside MZK building, Baikonur
- 3K (2.01) (third flight vehicle) : Flight Research Institute, Zhukovskiy
- 1M (0.01 / OK-ML1, OK-M) : outside the Baikonur museum
- 2M (0.02/ OK-ML2, OK-GLI, BTS-002) (used for approach and landing tests) : Technical Museum, Speyer, Germany
- 3M (0.03/OK-KS) : RKK Energiya, Korolyov (soon to be transported to Sochi)
- 4M (0.04 /OK-MT) : inside MZK building, Baikonur
- vehicle at VDNKh, Moscow (used to be at Gorky park) (this doesn't have a designator. It was assembled at NPO Molniya in 1993 from various surviving parts, including the left wing of 5M, the right wing of the unfinished flight vehicle 4K and the fuselage and vertical stabilizer of 0.11, which was used for static tests at NPO Molniya)

 
 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GClark on 06/19/2017 08:00 AM
Thank you for the prompt response.

I admit to confusion.  According to the information I have, 4M is the vehicle on display at the Baikonur museum and 7M is the one in the MZK.

I guess I need to buy your book...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Alter Sachse on 06/19/2017 08:28 AM
Buran sent to Sochi
http://www.vesti.ru/videos/show/vid/720113/cid/1/
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/19/2017 11:56 AM
Buran sent to Sochi
http://www.vesti.ru/videos/show/vid/720113/cid/1/

It's not quite on its way yet. The report says disassembly of the vehicle began today and should be finished about a week from now. Then the individual elements will be moved by truck to a nearby port and transported to Sochi by barge.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/19/2017 12:09 PM
Thank you for the prompt response.

I admit to confusion.  According to the information I have, 4M is the vehicle on display at the Baikonur museum and 7M is the one in the MZK.

I guess I need to buy your book...

There is indeed some confusion on the designators for the various Buran test vehicles. The list in my book was largely based on the one given by Russian Buran historian Vadim Lukashevich on his website:
http://www.buran.ru/htm/chavo.htm

He hasn't updated the online list since then, but he did give more up-to-date information in two articles in "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine in 2011/2012. That is what my post is based on. He doesn't mention 7M, neither in the online list, nor in his NK articles.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: GClark on 06/19/2017 12:40 PM
Okay, I really do need to buy your book.

Here, take my money...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Alter Sachse on 06/19/2017 01:29 PM
Buran sent to Sochi
http://www.vesti.ru/videos/show/vid/720113/cid/1/

It's not quite on its way yet. The report says disassembly of the vehicle began today and should be finished about a week from now. Then the individual elements will be moved by truck to a nearby port and transported to Sochi by barge.
"sent to" came from here:
http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news.html
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/19/2017 08:30 PM
Buran sent to Sochi
http://www.vesti.ru/videos/show/vid/720113/cid/1/

It's not quite on its way yet. The report says disassembly of the vehicle began today and should be finished about a week from now. Then the individual elements will be moved by truck to a nearby port and transported to Sochi by barge.
"sent to" came from here:
http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news.html

That's a mistranslation.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Alter Sachse on 06/20/2017 04:13 AM
Buran sent to Sochi
http://www.vesti.ru/videos/show/vid/720113/cid/1/

It's not quite on its way yet. The report says disassembly of the vehicle began today and should be finished about a week from now. Then the individual elements will be moved by truck to a nearby port and transported to Sochi by barge.
"sent to" came from here:
http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news.html

That's a mistranslation.
You are right. "are sent to..."
(just a small word)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/27/2017 04:37 PM
She has departed ! :D

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4367966
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/27/2017 04:52 PM
More pictures here :

https://www.roscosmos.ru/23702/

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2017/news_06-27.html

https://www.1tv.ru/news/2017-06-27/327783-k_otpravke_v_obrazovatelnyy_tsentr_sirius_gotovyat_maket_legendarnogo_kosmicheskogo_korablya_buran
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 06/28/2017 01:46 PM
http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news-2017/news_06-27.html

Buran sets forward to Sirius

June 27, 2017

The ceremony of transfering Buran reusable orbital vehicle full-size mockup used in the eighties for ground tests to Sirius Educational Centre (Sochi) will take place in RSC Energia on Tuesday, June 27.

Buran will become a part of Sirius Science and Art Park popular science exhibition about space with original items, interactive multimedia installations and exhibits. The exhibition will open in 2018.

The mockup was disassembled and prepared for transportation to Sochi. After the entire matching of mockup compartments exterior view and interior to Buran vehicle flight model, the mockup will be installed at Sirius Centre.

In the course of recovery works the specialists will install the internal equipment, cabins and armchairs, will reproduce the interior decoration and will make an external protective cover and affiliation marks.

Sirius Science and Art Park is a multifunctional public space being established in the building of the Olympics former Major Media Centre for the purpose of the Russian science and high technologies, musical and decorative art, ballet achievements’ popularization.

In the Park there are already created dozens of design and research scientific work laboratories, workshops, expositions and exhibition rooms, educational audiences, musical and ballet classes where Sirius Educational Centre pupils study and all-Russia scientific and technical festivals and engineering competitions take place.

This year for the first time Sirius Science and Art Park opened the doors for Sochi guests and habitants: scientific and creative master classes and excursions around laboratories, lecture halls, family weekend programs, classical music and ballet concerts, art exhibitions became available to them.

In 2018 in Sirius Science and Art Park the first order of the largest in the world natural-scientific exhibition complex will be opened for popularization of the Russian science and high technologies’ achievements. As early as July 2017, the activities will begin in the entry area (outside) to create recreation space, which main dominant will become Buran orbital vehicle with the interactive exposition inside. The Cosmodrome will be the first area open to the Park visitors, and it will include popular science exhibition and planetarium with the dome 15 meters in diameter.

Since 2016 Sirius Science and Art Park has been developing scientific and research cluster with the participation of the leading universities, scientific research institutes, advanced Russian companies and innovative startups. The joint work within specialized educational programs is carried out in this area by the talented pupils and students: Sirius graduates, experts, engineers, scientists.

In the mid eighties Buran orbital vehicle full-size mockup was used as part of bench for complex electrical tests, software development, electrical radio-technical tests of the vehicle systems and equipment. Since 1992 the mockup was preserved and was in the safekeeping.

According to the preparation and transportation schedule the next stage after the transfer ceremony will be the cargo trawls transport column moving on route MRHW (Moscow Ring Highway) – М4 highway, which is planned for June 29-30. On July 3 the column arrives to the port Caucasus, where Buran will be reloaded on a sea craft. On July 5 there will be the arrival to the port Imeretinskiy (The Olympic port in Sochi), and then there will be the transportation to Sirius.

RSC Energia  is the leader in the rocket and space industry, and the prime contractor for manned space systems. The Corporation conducts work on the development of unmanned space and rocket systems (launch vehicles and orbital transfer vehicles), and high-technology systems for various non-space applications. Since August 2014, the Corporation is headed by Vladimir SOLNTSEV.

ROSCOSMOS is a State Corporation established in August of 2015 in order to conduct a comprehensive reform of the rocket and space industry in Russia. State Corporation Roscosmos assures implementation of the Government policies in the field of space activities and provides for them a legal and regulatory framework, as well as places orders for the development, production and delivery of space hardware and space infrastructure facilities. The functions of the State Corporation also include development of international cooperation in space, and creating conditions for using results of space activities in social and economic development of Russia.

Sirius Educational Centre  was opened by the Foundation “Talent and success” in 2015 on the initiative of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin chaired its board of guardians. The Foundation was established by the outstanding Russian people of science, sports and art. Sirius task is to find the most resultative pupils in the regions of Russia, to develop and support them, to summarize and distribute best practices of working with talents.
 Monthly 600 talented pupils are enlisted to the profound educational programs, 200 by each direction (science, sports and art). The young mathematicians, physicists, chemists, biologists, musicians, artists, ballet dancers, writers, hockey players, figure skaters and chess players live and study together, which gives them a unique experience of interdisciplinary and creative communication. Study, stay and travel to Sirius are free for children. The program lasts for 24 days and includes profound profile study under the guidance of the leading Russian teachers, coaches and scientists, master classes and creative meetings, developmental leisure, recreation activities. Teaching is carried out on the basis of the infrastructure which was built for the Winter Olympic Games 2014.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: jacqmans on 06/28/2017 01:47 PM
http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news-2017/news_06-27_1.html


Channel One: Mockup of the legendary Buran orbiter is being readied for shipment to Sirius educational center

June 27, 2017

Students of the Sirius educational center will soon get a chance to step in the shoes of a conqueror of the Universe and go on a virtual voyage in a spacecraft. An exact replica of the legendary Buran orbiter is being shipped off to Sochi. After more than three decades the mockup changes its place of residence to become a part of a large exhibit dedicated to space exploration.

This spacecraft has stayed in Korolev for exactly 35 years, and now it is being loaded onto a platform to be shipped off to Sochi to the educational summer camp Sirius.

This is one of several Buran mockups which were used to test the operation of all the spacecraft systems. Altogether, about 10 of such units were built, and currently this one is among the best preserved specimens. Now it will be rebuilt into an installation which will help children study spaceflight.

People often ask which is the Buran that actually flew into space. This particular unit didn’t fly into space for sure, although inside it is outfitted exactly as the real orbiter, but if you look on the outside, you won’t find the famous ceramic tiles protecting the spacecraft against the heat of atmospheric re-entry.

The Buran orbiter, which on November 15, 1988 flew into space, stayed at Baikonur and was eventually lost. One unit stays there at the local museum, in Moscow, at VDNKh, there is also a mockup that was originally built for tests, and one more Buran found its way into a private collection in Germany.

"We were indeed offered large sums of money for it, but we decided to let it stay in Russia to make it work for the future of our country", - explained general director of S.P. Korolev Rocket and Space Corporation Energia Vladimir Solntsev.

Buran was supposed to be flown by two pilots, just as a conventional aircraft, although Buran flew its first and only mission in fully automatic mode, exactly aligning itself with the runway during landing approach despite strong crosswinds.

The Buran mockup will be loaded onto seven platforms and transported to the south at 60 kilometers per hour by federal highway M4. The Buran won’t be hidden under any wraps, so the transportation of the legend of Soviet spaceflight can be watched by anyone who whishes to so.

https://www.1tv.ru/news/2017-06-27/327783-k_otpravke_v_obrazovatelnyy_tsentr_sirius_gotovyat_maket_legendarnogo_kosmicheskogo_korablya_buran
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 06/28/2017 08:50 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4367966

According to yesterday's TASS report the trucks carrying the various parts of Buran were to depart Moscow on June 29 and arrive at the port of Kavkaz (on the Kerch strait in the Stavropol region) on July 3. There they will be loaded onto a sea-going vessel and leave for Sochi, with arrival at the Imeretinskiy port in Sochi expected on July 5. From there Buran will be transported to the Sirius Educational Center.  Refurbishment work is expected to take 1.5 months. Buran will be part of a permanent space exhibition at Sirius that will open in early 2018. It will be joined by a full-scale mock-up of the cancelled Kliper spacecraft and may eventually also be joined by a full-scale mock-up of Federatsia.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 07/01/2017 01:00 AM
From other Energiya/Buran fans, welcome!  Do you have the famous from-behind shot of the first Energiya on
the pad in hi-res??
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: SkipMorrow on 07/09/2017 01:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q7ZVXOU3kM

I hadn't seen this posted here yet.

Be sure to turn subtitles on if you don't speak Russian.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 07/09/2017 09:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q7ZVXOU3kM

I hadn't seen this posted here yet.

Be sure to turn subtitles on if you don't speak Russian.

This is a bunch of Dutch speaking Belgian guys.
They may have been inspired by these Russians, who did exactly the same (posted earlier in this thread):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMjEbtjUoM

Cheap way of visiting Baikonur, but what would the penalty be if you get caught?
 
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: cebri on 07/10/2017 10:49 PM
I think both videos are staged.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 07/12/2017 01:26 PM
I think both videos are staged.

Why do you think so?

It looks like all this began when Russian photographer and urban explorer Ralph Mirebs "discovered" the two abandoned Burans in 2015 and posted his pictures here:

http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/219949.html

These pictures were widely disseminated on the Internet. In actual fact, the existence of these two abandoned vehicles had been known for a long time, but nobody had paid much attention to them until Mirebs published his pictures.

As Mirebs said in this German interview, he had entered Baikonur illegally.

https://www.wired.de/collection/design/wired-spricht-mit-dem-russischen-fotografen-ralph-mirebs

Others have since followed in his footsteps.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: brucebrown on 07/19/2017 02:38 PM
Reading the 'STS 300' orbiter back up article I noted mention of serious issues with the reentry of Buran on its one and only flight. Does anyone have any more details of these problems?
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Arch Admiral on 07/20/2017 12:08 AM
There are a variety of unconfirmed stories about this.

Known facts: About 1980 a senior officer in the technical intelligence department of the GRU offered his services to the Surete (French FBI). He was code-named FAREWELL and supplied the West with the names of all the GRU agents and informers. Certain US agencies supplied these agents with a vast supply of bogus information. Eventually, FAREWELL broke down under the strain of being a defector-in-place and murdered his girlfriend in front of a bus stop full of horrified Moscow commuters.  There is a good book about this case (and a not-so-good French film).

Rumors: The FAREWELL disinformation package included a lot of deceptive information about the US Space Shuttle. Supposedly NASA supplied the GRU with technical reports on proposed sub-systems that had been rejected in favor of other approaches. Some of these reports led to differences between Shuttle and Buran which are otherwise inexplicable.

The most common claim is that disinformation led to errors in the tiles, tile mountings, or inter-tile spacers, which failed badly during re-entry. The Russians never have admitted this.

Another claim is that Buran's "green" GOX/Kerosene RCS thruster system worked very badly. The GOX supply was replenished from the LOX tanks of the OMS system by burning a small amount of kerosene, which contaminated the GOX with water droplets and soot. The water was (mostly) separated out, but the soot went on to foul the igniters in the thrusters. According to this rumor, several thrusters were not firing properly after only two orbits. A similar system was the original baseline for the Shuttle Orbiter, so it seems logical that it was supplied in the FAREWELL disinformation program.

The truth about all this is buried in secret files. Don't expect them to be opened soon.

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Zero-G on 07/20/2017 01:42 AM
One  of the main problems was TPS damage. Seven heat protection tiles were lost and many more were damaged. The worst was on  the left wing, where three tiles were lost in the same location, allowing  hot plasma to enter and damage the wing's titanium structure on reentry.
You can do a forum search or google "Buran tile damage"..
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Lars-J on 07/20/2017 05:12 AM
One  of the main problems was TPS damage. Seven heat protection tiles were lost and many more were damaged. The worst was on  the left wing, where three tiles were lost in the same location, allowing  hot plasma to enter and damage the wing's titanium structure on reentry.
You can do a forum search or google "Buran tile damage"..

Why don't you link to it then? Here it is: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=636.msg1426568#msg1426568   - and images: http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-versvol-etatbouclier.php

The damage is difficult to assess from that single image, but in general the damage of Buran's structure seems to be exaggerated by many based on little evidence such as this image. It was also common and natural tendency during (and post-) cold war to minimize achievements of the Buran program in the west. Such as "the whole structure was warped! It would never have flown again", and so on. This is the first time I have seen those images, and other than that group of tiles missing at the wingtip, the tile loss appears to have been quite minimal. That wing damage looks like it would have been repairable if the program wasn't already dead when Buran landed.  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 07/23/2017 12:30 AM
The worst was on  the left wing, where three tiles were lost in the same location, allowing  hot plasma to enter and damage the wing's titanium structure on reentry.

According to Valery Timoshenko (a leading scientist of NPO Molniya), this damage was produced by a "seal defect" in the joint of tiles with section #22 (C-C) of the wing leading edge.

http://www.buran-energia.com/documentation/documentation-akc-thermal-protection.php

http://espacial.org/astronautica/vuelotripulado/buran/buran_tps2.htm

!!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 07/23/2017 04:21 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4367966

According to yesterday's TASS report the trucks carrying the various parts of Buran were to depart Moscow on June 29 and arrive at the port of Kavkaz (on the Kerch strait in the Stavropol region) on July 3. There they will be loaded onto a sea-going vessel and leave for Sochi, with arrival at the Imeretinskiy port in Sochi expected on July 5. From there Buran will be transported to the Sirius Educational Center.  Refurbishment work is expected to take 1.5 months. Buran will be part of a permanent space exhibition at Sirius that will open in early 2018. It will be joined by a full-scale mock-up of the cancelled Kliper spacecraft and may eventually also be joined by a full-scale mock-up of Federatsia.

Much more pictures on this forum :

https://aviaforum.ru/threads/mtkk-buran-v-olimpijskom-parke-g-sochi.44451/page-3

(this link points to page 3/8)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 07/23/2017 09:19 PM

Much more pictures on this forum :

https://aviaforum.ru/threads/mtkk-buran-v-olimpijskom-parke-g-sochi.44451/page-3

(this link points to page 3/8)

Wow! Thanks for sharing...!  :)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 07/25/2017 08:45 PM
A very bad news...  :-X

According to Vadim Lukashevich, editor of the site "Buran.ru", the owners of the mark "Buran" have requested to the Russian justice the closure of the site, due to the unauthorized use of the mark "Buran".

If this measure were taken, a valuable source of information on Soviet and Russian cosmonautics would be lost.

https://vk dot com/wall-47256091_199570

Google translate:

The Buran.Ru website is closed at the request of the copyright holder

The founder and owner of the site "Buran.Ru" Vadim Lukashevich said that the owners of the trademark "Buran" sued in order to close the site.

The site buran.ru contains the richest archival documentary, photographic and video materials on the history of the Russian aerospace industry. The author of the site conducted a complicated and painstaking work to recreate models of space vehicles and aerospace systems in 3D models, to document the achievements and technical solutions implemented in the development of the Spiral, Buran, Energia, Mriya and other systems. Materials collected on the site are of interest to anyone who is interested in the history of Soviet and Russian astronautics.

Illustrations made by Vadim were repeatedly reprinted on websites and in the press, repeatedly stolen by the publishers of calendars, books and even textbooks for aerospace universities.

An hour ago a message appeared:

"LLC" LenTa Wanderings "filed an official application with the court to close the site www.buran.ru in connection with the illegal use of the registered trademark without our consent."

Domain buran.ru is registered personally on Vadim, but all illustrations on the site have a "Buran" logo to which its owners have claims.

Vadim Lukashevich commented on his Facebook page

"I will lose this court. Who is valuable or interesting content of my site www.buran.ru, which was created almost 19 years - copy yourself a website in whole or in parts ... "
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 07/29/2017 09:53 PM
Hello!

The Buran at Paris Air Show Le Bourget 1989 (June), with the Thermal Protection System (TPS) completely restored.

!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 07/31/2017 09:24 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4451786

After some delays Buran vehicle 003 has arrived in Sochi. It will take about 1.5 months to assemble the vehicle and it will go on display at the Sirius education centre next year.

Here's some video of today's arrival  from a local TV station (1:20 - 2:25):

http://vesti-sochi.tv/obshhestvo/50324-v-sochi-dostavili-polnorazmernyj-maket-kosmicheskogo-korablja-lkliperr-skoro-privezut-lburanr

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 07/31/2017 09:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ0MYWRJbZg
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Skylab on 08/03/2017 12:27 PM
A very bad news...  :-X

According to Vadim Lukashevich, editor of the site "Buran.ru", the owners of the mark "Buran" have requested to the Russian justice the closure of the site, due to the unauthorized use of the mark "Buran".
I did save the whole site, as Vadim requested. It took a week though, as the site's upload is 24 KB/s! Many thanks to Vadim for his work, and I hope he wins the court case!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 08/05/2017 12:15 PM
More photos from Le Bourguet 1989!  ;)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 08/17/2017 11:30 PM
Shuttle-Buran size comparison, based on data from RKK Energia.
(Buran 3D model: © Buran.ru)

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 08/20/2017 10:46 PM
Shuttle-Buran size comparison, based on data from RKK Energia.

**Final corrected version**

(Buran 3D model: © Buran.ru)

 ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 08/21/2017 08:19 PM
Hello!

New russian serie of videos on cosmonautics.
The fourth video is dedicated to the Buran shuttle.
This production was attended by Vadim Lukashevich, editor of the site Buran.ru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EemDjZfXlig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhoX0YMA4Ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKT2P-TQgh8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPAu-tIU8Y

Enjoy!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 09/09/2017 07:19 PM
Hi!

The real cockpit of Buran.
Video © Buran.ru

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiGtV_z33-M

best wishes!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 09/12/2017 10:07 PM
A monument to the Buran space shuttle will be installed in Tushino (Moscow), near the manufacturing plant of the Buran

From Google Translate:

Deputy Chairman of the Moscow City Duma Commission for Education Olga Yaroslavskaya proposed to install a monument to the space ship Buran in South Tushino, the Moscow Agency reported.

Yaroslavskaya noted that the main enterprise-manufacturer of the ship was the Tushino Machine-Building Plant.

"In order to perpetuate this event and preserve the memory of one of the most important milestones in the exploration of outer space for descendants and pay tribute to the inhabitants of Tushino, thanks to the work of which this event became possible, I initiated the installation of a monument," Yaroslavskaya said.

It is planned that the place where the monument will be located will be a square near the cultural center "Salute". This initiative was supported by the municipal deputies of the district, as well as by the district administration.

The chairman of the commission on monumental art, Igor Voskresensky, said that the commission is ready to consider this initiative.

Sources:

goo.gl/ZD58Nr (http://goo.gl/ZD58Nr)

goo.gl/jLeczx (http://goo.gl/jLeczx)

The place:

goo.gl/KR9ri7 (http://goo.gl/KR9ri7)

best wishes!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 09/16/2017 09:37 PM
Hello...!

A Buran at VDNKh (Vystavka Dostizheniy Narodnogo Khozyaystva or Exhibition of Achievements of National Economy), Moscow.

goo.gl/YfGRpW (http://goo.gl/YfGRpW)

 ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 10/07/2017 12:07 PM
A new research work between NPO Molniya and RKK Energia: Will Russia build a space drone?

From Google translate:

"Also in December 2015, an agreement was signed with the Energia corporation, we will jointly write the terms of reference for research work on a two-medium unmanned aerial vehicle, which opens within the framework of the Defense Ministry in 2017. The NPO Molniya with RKK Energia old ties, better than us no one knows the features of two-medium devices, capable of working in both the atmosphere and in the airless space. We together created the "Buran", we have established contacts, we will be glad of such cooperation. The Minister of Defense Sergey Shoigu has already signed the documents that this research work will be opened in 2017"

Source:

http://rareearth.ru/ru/pub/20161015/02878.html

A related article:

http://espacial.org/astronautica/vuelotripulado/buran/mini_buran1.htm

 ;)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: rpapo on 10/07/2017 04:51 PM
Looks like a reaction to the X-37, much as Buran was a reaction to the Space Shuttle.  Good luck to them!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: savuporo on 10/07/2017 05:21 PM
A new research work between NPO Molniya and RKK Energia: Will Russia build a space dron?

Unfortunately, Betteridge's law of headlines clearly applies here.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Archibald on 10/08/2017 07:00 PM
There is also ESA IXV-derived space plane, and also the Chinese space plane I can't remember-the-name.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 10/08/2017 10:17 PM
...and also the Chinese space plane I can't remember-the-name.

Shenlong  "Divine Dragon"

http://goo.gl/Bv6dZq

 8)
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 10/24/2017 09:58 PM
Hello!
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: lucspace on 11/02/2017 01:53 PM
Did we know Buran's docking unit was called 'Ikar"?
See: https://www.facebook.com/planetary.spb/photos/pcb.1392780067506813/1392776550840498/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 11/14/2017 08:22 PM
November 15, The Buran's Day!

A good selection (I think) of images of the Buran...
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: eeergo on 11/15/2017 02:30 PM
Very nice compilation video about the pre-launch processing and launch day on this 29th anniversary of Buran's first/only launch.

https://www.roscosmos.ru/24308/



https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/930804318164410375
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: catdlr on 11/15/2017 09:50 PM
now on YouTube...

Archive. Preparation and launch of the MTCS "Energia-Buran"

ROSCOSMOS Media Store
Published on Nov 15, 2017

ROSKOSMOS presents unique archival frames for the preparation and launch of the reusable transport space system Energia-Buran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bazyDs1SaI?t=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bazyDs1SaI
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Blackstar on 11/16/2017 01:35 PM
now on YouTube...

Archive. Preparation and launch of the MTCS "Energia-Buran"

ROSCOSMOS Media Store
Published on Nov 15, 2017

ROSKOSMOS presents unique archival frames for the preparation and launch of the reusable transport space system Energia-Buran.

This is a very good video. I think there's a goof in the translation there and instead of "unique archival frames" it should be "unique archival footage..."

Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 11/18/2017 09:56 PM
Very nice compilation video about the pre-launch processing and launch day on this 29th anniversary of Buran's first/only launch.

https://www.roscosmos.ru/24308/



https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/930804318164410375

For some reason most of the video of the roll-out to the pad (4:45 to 5:45) actually shows the second flight vehicle during a test roll-out to the pad in May 1991 (not the pre-flight roll-out in October 1988). You can see that many of the vehicle's tiles are still missing and the Energia is not a flightworthy model. 

Much more unique Buran footage is available on Vadim Lukashevich's website (which seems to be back online).
http://www.buran.ru/htm/video.htm
Most of the video of preparations for the mission and the actual flight is on pages 7 to 12.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: pargoo on 11/18/2017 10:58 PM
     Oh, for some better colour shots of...well, pretty much all of that second roll-out <sigh>
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 11/20/2017 10:48 PM
Some damage to the Buran' TPS (Thermal Protection System)

A - In this area the damage suffered by the TPS is due to the action of the gases of the engines of Energia rocket, at lift-off.

B - In this area the damage suffered by the TPS is due to the action of the solid engines of the auxiliary rockets (at the time of their separation from core block).

Source: buran.ru
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 11/22/2017 02:03 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/style/article/baikonur-buran-soviet-space-shuttle/index.html

CNN article on the abandoned Burans at Baikonur with pictures taken by French photographer David de Rueda and some quotes from yours truly.
Title: Re: The Buran Thread
Post by: Wilfredo on 11/24/2017 11:38 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/style/article/baikonur-buran-soviet-space-shuttle/index.html

CNN article on the abandoned Burans at Baikonur with pictures taken by French photographer David de Rueda and some quotes from yours truly.

 :o