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General Discussion => Spaceflight Entertainment and Hobbies => Topic started by: roma847 on 11/11/2012 10:07 AM

Title: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Post by: roma847 on 11/11/2012 10:07 AM
                                       Back to the Beginning of NASA's Space Shuttle Missions

                                         Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6


                                             (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4119/22zq.jpg)


Now it is time for presentation my Launch Pad 39A-Project with Challenger STS-6 in NSF forum and I hope you'll be interested in.

Since I'll post my report step by step as I've built, I find it better if images do not appear as attachments at the end, but in the text are embedded for better understanding. I hope you are agree. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

To the prehistory:
After conclusion the NASA Shuttle program last summer with the last Atlantis-Mission (STS-135), I dedicate my first real space modeling project to the beginning the legendary space shuttle era before more than 30 years.

I was inspired to this major project by similar space modeling projects in the German forum Raumfahrer.net.

I decided for the STS-6-Mission with the Challenger (04.04.1983) as guidance version for my build, because I would like to build the tower version from the initial years of shuttle era with the red lattice windows and the partial red FSS grating structure inclusive hammerhead crane, which fascinated me somehow.

The following picture shows the Challenger during the roll-out in the fog on their way to the Launch PAD 39A,

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1917/sts6rollout1.jpg)
Source: NASA

as well as with the lift-off to the STS-6-Mission.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3848/sts6liftoff.jpg)
Source: NASA

To the project:
To be built is the Launch Pad 39A with Launch tower, Shuttle stack, as well as Mobile launcher platform (MLP) and Crawler transporter (CT). Basic module for my project is thereby the Revell kit 4911 in scale 1:144, in quotation marks and red, because one already is thereby for the cardinal problem of the actually mad Revell kit, the scale dilemma, to which one could be written its own chapter and said therefore some more must.

For the addition of the launch tower FSS I procured myself the Detail kits of LVM Studios (http://store.lvm-studios.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&product_id=56). Since I decided for the STS-6-Mission with the Challenger, with the Detail kits of LVM one can represent thereby the elevator shaft of the tower in the original building technique with the red lattice windows, as it in the early years the shuttle era looked quite. In addition Detail kit No. 1 contains parts for the complete staircase in the tower, which is completely missing with Revell's 4910/4911.

The LVM kits contain photo etched parts (PE) from thin brass sheet metal, with which very finely detailed structures can be produced as well known.

For building MLP and Crawler I use cardboard-model kits by David Maier from EDU-Craft Deversions (http://educraftdiversions.org/) on scale 1:144. The kits consist in each case of 13 colored building sheets of cardboard (27.5 cm x 42.5 cm) as well as a building guidance on CD-ROM.

To the scale problem:
As most of you will know, Revell kit 4911 is seriously underscale and not true to scale 1:144, which lead inevitably to problems with the building. Therefore one has two possibilities, if one likes to use the Revell kit.

Either one builds the kit Out Of Box (OOB), because in such a way the building groups FSS, RSS, shuttle stack and MLP fit to each other from the size, only stop is not everything on a scale 1:144, but only shuttle stack. Or one is compelling by partial scale adjustment to compromises and to scratch building, if one liked itself to orient halfway at the original. Of course one can do the build also without the Revell kit by overall scratch building.  ;)

As way out of the scale dilemma I decided for a compromise settlement. Therefore I made myself first of all own assembly drawings, in order to receive a better overview.

Starting point for my considerations was the following design (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/index.php?topic=10488.msg161244#msg161244)of the member Halbtoter in Raumfahrer.net forum, which shows a comparison between the Revell kit 4911 and the FSS/RSS in the true scale 1:144.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5583/53844949.jpg)
Source: Halbtoter

The black design originates from the Revell building guidance, and the version drawn by Halbtoter by original plans of NASA is red in 1:144. It becomes clear one when exact looking that the red MLP (1: 144) does not fit no more into the Revell RSS.

Since this line tangle can confuse one first however and in addition the mini MLP of the Revell kit is not with drawn in, I made myself in addition the following designs:

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6008/lcrevellf.jpg)

This design illustrates clearly the descriptive scale dilemma of the Revell kit 4911, if one would build all OOB. The serious error is evenly the much to small MLP (1:200!!!) of the Revell kit, which does not fit somehow at all the total proportions. In addition it comes that also the FSS Tower (RSS probably similar) is too low approx. 7,6 cm thereby only one scale of approx. 1:168 corresponds. The image quality must accept your stop, because there two transparency sheets lie one above the other. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

The next design shows now a comparison of the RSS/FSS with MLP in 1:144 (with me black!!!) and in contrast to the Revell conditions in 1:168 and/or 1:200 (red).

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/514/fssrssrevell144.jpg)

Considering this awkward situation I came to careful consideration in the long run that one does not come with the scale around a compromise unfortunately around, if one liked to use at least the FSS and RSS as main components of the Revell kit.

And in such a way now past planning for my project looks as compromise settlement, with which I will build MLP and Crawler in 1:160 and in addition FSS and RSS in the height are supplemented around approx. 3 cm. I hope now that the result will then contently place me also to some extent. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1204/lcprojektf.jpg)

So, now however enough the preface and thus finally to the building and to the first parts and pictures.

First part of my project will be the MLP platform, for which I procured myself the cardboard model kit of EDU-Craft Diversions on a scale 1:144, with which one the MLP-2 used with the mission STS-6 can build. Since I will build however MLP and Crawler transporter on a scale 1:160, first I went with the 1:144 cardboard sheets into the copy shop to reduced it to 1:160. Here is a small selection from the 13 MLP sheets.

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5151/mlpmaierbgen1.jpg)

The two following pictures show now what then from it is to become, the MLP, first without

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7204/mlpmaier.jpg)
Source: EDU-Craft Diversions

and here at the same time with shuttle stack as impressive comparison with Revell's mini MLP. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img43/4690/stackrevell.jpg)
Source: EDU-Craft Diversions

And in my next post I will show you first pictures of my building site.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/11/2012 12:20 PM
Hi all,

and now finally some first pictures of my building site. This is the larger part of the MLP platform top side here.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8641/deck1c.jpg)

And here the smaller part of the platform top side (continuation), the front (Side 1) and back (Side 3) as well as the left SRB Blast Chamber.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3379/deck2ml23.jpg)

The next picture shows the two side panels of the MLP, Side 2 and Side 4, the right SRB Blast Chamber as well as the SSME Blast Chamber and parts of the 6 MLP "feet" (pedestals).

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4104/mlps2s4.jpg)

Since to me however a pure cardboard version appears not strong enough as foundation for shuttle stack nevertheless, I decided to give to the MLP a load-carrying sub-construction from hardboard and balsa which are then pasted with the colored cardboard. But not all details from cardboard look so mad and manufacture of special delicate parts could be very difficult (e.g. railings and in particular long and thin pipes!!!) Therefore I've intended, to build not everything of paper from the kit. Additional small parts and armatures as well as lines, railings and stairs I will scratch build of plastic sheet or metal.

Let's go, now it goes first times into the wood , here the upper and lower cover plate of 1.8 mm hardboard.

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3546/bodendeckplatte.jpg)

On the upper cover plate the side panels and the retaining structure from Balsa were then glued on.

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7900/rohbau1.jpg)

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/441/rohbau2.jpg)

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3421/rohbau3jizo.jpg)

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2589/mlpoberseitep.jpg)

So, thus the MLP construction has already a quite tidy stability and might some launches loosely so probably get over. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Wow, now I'm however glad, the beginning is made and updates follow soon. And if to you to something it is noticeable, what perhaps better one could make, then does to you please no obligation, for constructional criticism or other proposals, hints and general feedback I would be very grateful.
 
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/11/2012 03:15 PM
And here is a next update. The carcass part looked last still rather naked. Therefore now first times the top deck got its decoration wallpaper. There first however times was the question about the most favorable sticking variant. Since such can full-laminar probably be pasted a relatively large surface of nevertheless approx. 30 cm x 25 cm from the tube or even with a Pritt pin rather more badly, I decided for sticking spray (Uhu). And thus it went then also completely well, although one must be careful, otherwise sticks there fast also everything else ... (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7254/decktop.jpg)

Next was the front Side 1, whereby still following is to be entered afterwards: As one can see in one of my last pictures,

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3379/deck2ml23.jpg)

this front in the paper kit has the same height as the remaining MLP sides, which does not correspond however to the original, how one can see at the step on this NASA photo, which goes up to the center of the SSME Blast Chamber.

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/451/nasamlp1.jpg)
Source: NASA

Without this step the building of the MLP base would be somewhat easier, which however was not in my sense. Therefore I have corrected this small omission sin of Mr. Maier by the appropriate step.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up016318.jpg)

And then finally still the remaining 3 sides of the MLP followed.

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5696/rechteseitevorn.jpg)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3825/linkeseitehinten.jpg)

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7918/linkeseitevorn.jpg)

Now does the MLP look equal already many nevertheless better. Only the bottom side is missing, with continues it then tomorrow.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/12/2012 01:19 PM
Next the bottom side was completed, which got a grey painting from the Tamiya spray.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2533/mlpunten.jpg)

Thus then the outside covering of the MLP would be actually already nearly complete.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/8688/mlpvorn.jpg)

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6505/mlpoben2.jpg)

And as one in the pictures can see, became already also Blast chambers for the two Rocket booster (SRB) as well as the Main engine (SSME) disguises. During launch the hot exhaust gases are derived by these openings.

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9002/blastchambers.jpg)

Although everything don't look bad already, however Blast hambers are just like the 4 sides to be structured later still further by scratch building. But I prepared already some meters of Sheet profiles (1x1 mm and 1.5x1.5 mm), as well as priming and paints. That must happen with my building method (unfortunately) before sticking together, since following painting is absolutely taboo. And that will be simultaneous then for me also the entrance into the Airbrushing, with which I have so far still no experience. Property in addition on recommending my modeling shop forwards to test the Aqua Color colors of Revell.

And then already a view ahead on the next details for the MLP deck, e.g. Blast deck and Blast Shields.

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1959/blastdeck.jpg)

Then I unpacked my Airbrush basic set from Revell with compressor, loaded the gun and completely started courageously straight. Knew so far only the terrible vapor from the Tamiya sprays. 

And those are now my first proud results, approx. 6 current meters, which wait now for the cut.  ;)

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8558/stege.jpg)

Those are profiles 1.5x1.5 mm for the MLP sides and 1.0x1.0 mm for the SSME Blast chamber.

With the result I am so far quite actually content, but every beginning is difficult ... 

And now the freshly painted profiles should come naturally also on the right places. And so the first meter profile 1.5x1.5 mm is already glued, and it looks already quite good for the beginning.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7053/profilelinkeseite.jpg)

There now however already still some meters of profiles lie before me and wait patiently for their dispatching. But occasionally the Blast deck follows now.

So that this very flat part should not bend with the sticking assembly in the center and to remain stable in itself, I imagined that a reinforcement from Balsa would be completely appropriate.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9935/blastdeck1.jpg)

After bonding the Balsa board inside, the lateral chamfers were glued to. After this Blast deck could to be glued at its intended place. One must look already exactly, in order to recognize the flat part.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5169/blastdeck2.jpg)

Subsequently, I have prepared the covering of the SSME Blast chamber, where must still reinforcement profiles be drawn in. For it I used the painted 1x1 mm profiles and cut of it 34 pieces on length.

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2082/blastchamberstege2.jpg)

And then the profiles with tweezers and superglue were glued, and so then one after another came to its place. That was, as already feared, a rather stressful affair. But then it (and also myself) was bushed. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6994/blastchamberstege3.jpg)

And then are missing "only" still the reinforment profiles (1x1 mm) at the rear walls of the SRB Blast chambers, I wanted to scratch build also. For the lateral profiles I used paper strips copied from the kit.

But I state only straight ones that I must airbrush for it only again which. There I must have miscounted myself probably somehow.

Therefore followed next only still the preparation of the parts for the Blast shields over the 3 chambers. On the left side there are the parts for the underbody, into which for reinforcement an insert from cardboard (right) is glued, and below them the upper covers lie.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3069/blastshields2.jpg)

The SSME Blast shield is interrupted by the recesses for the two Tail service of masts (TSM). The front part of the Blast shields is already completely glued on the picture, with underbody inclusive reinforcement and cover. After bonding the cardboard reinforcement then also the underbody of the SRB Blast shields could be glued on the deck.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5295/blastshieldssrbunterbau.jpg)

With covering the underbody I will however wait still until the reinforcment profiles (1x1 mm) at the rear walls of the SRB Chambers are glued, since there is otherwise possibly no clean edge.

Therefore I planned still the shifting of the reinforcement profiles at the MPL-Side 3, which is fortunately not completely as complex structured up to the middle small articles as the other sides. Thus first again the necessary profiles were suitably cut,

(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6760/stegerckseite.jpg)

then each part with the tweezers moved, with a toothpick the back carefully with Superglue dabs, and then with calm hand glued on first attempt in the correct position on the intended place. And in such a way it finally looks if everything folded.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6786/stegerckseitefertig.jpg)

Now only still the two outside profiles (4x1,5 mm) are missing, which must be only still painted however.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/13/2012 01:44 PM
Since I with the upper cover of the SRB Blast shields myself some more wait must, next were the Hold downs with the supports for the two SRB's. Those are the mounting plates of the Boosters rockets into the SRB holes. In the following picture one can see two of it, the wedge-shaped supports, four of them carry a SRB in each case.

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1661/srbholddowns.jpg)
Source: NASA

And it went loosely with the preparation:

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2610/srbholddownsbalsa.jpg)

First I cut out a part and folded it (above). According to building guidance one should strengthen the parts inside with several layers of cardboard (see black master, left). In addition I seized and in each case the proven Balsa wood back a thicker (left) and a thinner part (right) sticks together with one another. That is necessary, because the Hold downs are not symmetrical and have a chamfer at a side.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2192/srbholddownspapier.jpg)

Folding and bonding the Balsa cores was already a considerable stress.   There one is probably faster finished, if one parts from a full Sheet blank would file. But then the eight parts finished product finite and lay ready for assembly,

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6956/srbholddowns1.jpg)

and could be bonded into the SRB Holes.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7895/srbholddowns2.jpg)

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/384/srbholddowns3.jpg)

Now are missing on the Hold Downs only the four supports, that are in the following picture the grey cones with the red covers.

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8103/srbfoto.jpg)
Source: NASA

And that they are to become then.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8803/srbsupports.jpg)

I left the 8 supports for the Hold Downs first times aside. But I operated again some photo researches for further detailing of the MLP side panels and prepared and afterwards painted the plastic profiles necessary for it.

Those are among other things the bracket sections at the four corners of the MLP (1), the rain pipes profiles (2) at the top margin of the Sides 2 and Side 4 with the associated downspouts (3), as well as further square and flat profiles, so among other things also the still which is missing 1x1 mm of profiles for the reinforcement bars at the rear walls of the SRB Holes.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9886/mlp16details.jpg)
Source: NASA

There they lie now and wait for the final cut.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up016328.jpg)

It continued to go again at the rear walls of the SRB Holes. And as if I would have suspected it, already only the cut of the 1x1 mm of profiles for the reinforcement bars had it in itself. That were per one Hole 35 profiles of different length, whereby the smallest pieces at the upper ends were long scarcely 2 mm. The crumbs cut and still hold at the same time, go actually not at all, also not with tweezers. And the 70 profiles with superglue on the correct place to then glue separately, that was already one considerable wearing down and stressful number. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) 

But it is done now, wow !!!

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4458/srbholesrckwand.jpg)

And I am actually completely content with the result. Nevertheless so still a nuance sees more genuinly out in the comparison with the photo detail. But altogether it was nevertheless more complex, than I had at first presented it to me. One has that now from its detail fad.

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8387/srbholesrckwand1.jpg)

And it is only for the sake of completeness mentioned that thereby now finally also SRB Blast Shields cover could be glued together.

And in such a way it looks from downside.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6923/3holesvu.jpg)

Property now finally also the four corners of the MLP with the angle profiles completed and at the back the two still which are missing diagonal flat profiles attached.

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3961/winkelprofile.jpg)

After the Side 3 I planned now the Side 4. First of all I again removed the 1,5x1,5 mm of tie profiles already glued together, since with exact view in some photos it had noticed to me that the tie profiles lay more deeply than the vertical profiles and therefore flatter profiles must be.

And in such a way my Side 4 looks thereby now:

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7461/side43.jpg)

Now only some angle profiles 1,5x1,5 mm (smaller does not give it unfortunately) are missing to still few smaller lines, and then naturally still the LOX- and LH2-Pipes with the mounting plates in each case around the access doors. And on the back (Side 3) are likewise only missing the angle profiles. Thus it pleases me slowly complete well.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3057/side42.jpg)

For a change I have made further with the Stair housing on Blast deck, which was strengthened inside again with Balsa pieces,

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/838/stairhouse.jpg)

and afterwards on Blast deck one glued together. The door something strengthened with cardboard.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3017/stairhouse1.jpg)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/14/2012 07:29 AM
There first still the remaining tie bars and angle profiles were to be attached to the Side 2, which I had to only still procure myself. And this Side 2 should really have it in itself.   

Here again to the memory the inital state, only with vertical profiles just:

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/388/93937055.jpg)

The angle profiles are in each case as verge around all access doors of the MLP sides as well as around the four instrumentation interface panel, how just was to be seen.

For the horizontal angle profiles above and underneath the doors and panels I took the smallest available plastic profiles 1,5x1,5 mm and am for the still smaller vertical angle profiles laterally the doors and panels 1x1 mm of profiles from brass, that genuinly already considerable mites.   

Thus I had due to the mixture technology from cardboard kit and plastic parts, selected of me for MLP and Crawler, inevitably first only again into the spray booth, since before the subsequent treatment all parts must be painted. That is a small however substantial difference to the generally usual pure plastic construction way, with which under normal conditions everything can afterwards be installed and glued together and one paints. And when the assembling of the before painted components signs of usage of tweezers and other aids often cannot be avoided despite all caution, why then afterwards again must be repaired.

And in such a way the Side 2 looks now with all along and tie bars (nearly finished):

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6432/35590201.jpg)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3307/66551345.jpg)

And here two detail opinions:

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3573/81022262.jpg)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2398/84013210.jpg)

And on it goes to the opposite Side 4, in principle yes a similar venture, which concerns the profiles, but however with a small delicacy.   

In addition first times this simple rebus, as it were as a small harbinger:

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6061/27533526.jpg)

First times in the foreground for feeling his way not to unfortunately nearly recognize because of the blur however and only suspect by the small bit behind it with something trouble: the 1x1 mm angle profiles (brass), behind it four small doors as well as two further downspouts for the gutters.

And thus to the actual mystery-ask:
For what is the ribbon to be good and/or which puts behind there probably?

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: saturnapollo on 11/14/2012 11:00 AM
You are doing an incredible job there. The main problem with that kit is the disparity of scales between the shuttle and the rest of it, but you seem to have found a workable solution. And the detail you are incorporating is incredible.

You might be interested in joing the space modellers e-mail group by the way

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/space-modelers/?start=128

Keith
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/14/2012 02:24 PM
Hi Keith,

Thanks for all the kind words! Your comments give me encouragement to keep pushing on my major project.  :)

I fully agree with you, the Revell kits 4910/4911 are great kits but the main problem is really that they are underscale.  :( FSS and RSS (1:168), and in particular the MLP (only 1: 200) have different scales, but only the shuttle stack actually is 1:144. Thus one can either build all OOB or makes a compromise and adjusts the systems as me.

Do you know the nice detail kits for the FSS tower from LVM Studios, that I want to use?

Thank you also for the link to the yahoo-group, where are certainly a lot of interesting information for modelers. Are there also individual progress reports of builds?  :-\

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/15/2012 12:55 PM
Because it seems no one knows I want to solve the puzzle. And here is the detail, which it concerns. There is this small ventilation screen in the Bay 7 of Side 4:

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2606/29404102.jpg)
Source: NASA

And it looks like this on a scale 1:160:

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7012/62417339.jpg)

But were first already a few preliminary tests for the most favorable handling necessary. In the final version I cut myself first the internal window opening of approx. 6,2x6,8 mm with a cutter from a piece of paper and glued then a somewhat larger piece of the priming ribbon over it. Afterwards I drew the outside edge (7,5x8 mm) around the lattice opening, and cut these out then carefully, from which finally a framework strength of < 1 mm results. And after the concluding brushing finish the work was then achieved and had to be glued only carefully between the 1x1 mm of bracket sections in Bay 7.  8)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6528/73251551.jpg)

It is in the long run only a small detail, could one now mean, who is hardly still noticeable in the MLP wall, but rounds it somehow off nevertheless the overall view, finds I. And in addition I wanted to try myself times at so a fine structure.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4894/62928333.jpg)

And now only the Side 1 stands so completely naked and without everything there, but that will now soon change also. There is a lot of equipment to build yes.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2356/37858855.jpg)

Here is a picture of the original in full beauty to the warm-up. There are already alone four Access Platforms in different height with various equipment, walkways, stairs, railings and a lot of pipes.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1673/58359419.jpg)
Source: NASA

But first were to be attached into already well-known way the vertical reinforcement profiles, thus a comparatively rather lighter exercise.

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5485/88777781.jpg)

And thus to the longest four the Access Platforms, that is at the left side, above the MLP NR., here in the original.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9026/44302057.jpg)
Source: NASA

On the paper sheet the individual parts for it see so out (left side):

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2165/91871676.jpg)

Actually it should go with the Access Platforms at the Side 1 further, and I had begun thereby already.

(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/812/p10co.jpg)

I strengthened the upper section of the platform (in front) again with 2 mm of Balsa. Behind it the bottom side of the platform lies. The two recesses on the right and left were suggested in D. Maiers kit template only as such, what does not please me however, and therefore I've cut it out. Above the right recess (arrow) a long stairway leads to the upper deck (0 Level) of  MLP-1.

Since I found out however in the meantime, there was no stairway at the MLP-2 with the STS-6, and therefore I had omitted.  ;)

Above the left opening (arrow) a camera sits on a small platform.

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/337/p12fc.jpg)
Source: NASA

With more exact regarding of the platform parts I've got the question, how the platforms in reality looked, whether are closed, or whether it concerns broken through gratings, which I thereupon followed.

After I looked at myself some NASA photos exactly, I found out that it concerns open gratings, as one can see in this photo.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2531/s1s4gitterroste.jpg)
Source: NASA

And after I had found that out, I had following idea: Why I should not try whether the top sides of the Access Platforms would drive themselves out not also as gratings leave. And there I was with my thoughts immediately again with the small ventilation screen on the Side 4, which I had scratch built from a ribbon.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3116/p11wm.jpg)

I am some more considering, whether I am to really do myself the expenditure, but would already provoke me that. And therefore I'll plan that next times. If it folds, I could build all other Access Platforms also in such a way.

That however would mean that I must build also the underbody for the gratings themselves, and for it I need the necessary profiles. Those are essentially I-beam sections, on the basis of photos I estimate approx. 1,5x2,5 mm (1:160). And then it would also present itself to likewise build the struts from plastic profiles and do without the paper struts.  ::)

Completely so fast I will be able to start thereby not yet. After careful consideration I mean textile variant envisaged with the ribbon for the gratings probably nevertheless to reject and the rust instead from metallic tissue to make. That would then in any case be the more solid and more durable solution, as I find.  8)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/16/2012 06:15 AM
Then I already procured myself the first profiles for the building of platforms, with which it could to start then shortly.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4083/messingprofile.jpg)

Those are from top to bottom:

I-beam section 3x1,5 mm plastic
I-beam section 2,5x1,5 mm brass
L-section 2x1 mm brass
Angle profile 1x1 mm brass

For the gratings I will use now fine-mesh PE plates from brass. Therefor I have estimated the mesh size of the gratings on the basis this and other photos roughly as follows:

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1203/89557081.jpg)
Source: NASA

Thus the mesh size should amount to therefore in the original 12.0x2.4 cm and in 1:160 0.75x0.15 mm. Since however so fine-mesh PE plates are offered by no manufacturer, I decided then for a mesh width of 1.2x0.7 mm, which corresponds to the original at least in 2nd approximation.   

Therefore I selected now and ordered gratings with 1.2x0.7 mm of mesh size of the Polish company ABER, for which I wait now.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4320/95232819.jpg)
Source: McM Marketing

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/16/2012 06:30 AM
So that it precedes nevertheless, I turned, i.e. now to another important equipment of the MLP the two Tail service masts (TSM). Those are the box-like things to both sides of the SSME exhaust hole, by whose interfaces the shuttle is connected with the MLP. Over it all important supply lines and connections run, via which the shuttle stack is supplied with all necessary media (energy, fuels, data etc.), which are needed during the mission.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8136/92310950.jpg)
Source: NASA

The TSM parts look on the kit sheet in such a way:

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3944/15785738f.jpg)

Although both TSM's from the outside form look almost alike, they differ nevertheless in some details, which will still have to be seen. I began first with the right TSM, by which the pipe for the liquid oxygen (LO2) runs.

In the building guidance all steps are in detail illustrated.

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1673/32609953.jpg)

First again reinforcement pieces for the two TSM bases had to be made, to which I had used Balsa and cardboard in proven way again, in order to come on the necessary strength. However the template of the paper kit (black) proved as too inaccurate and/or useless.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7136/18038759.jpg)

In the next step the cores were glued into the paper covering.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3612/64440332.jpg)

n front of the TSM lies one of the two opening flaps with the Balsa reinforcement, which must be glued still in each case on the dark strips on front site and back.

And in such a way the base of the TSM looks then:

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6792/41839828.jpg)

The two opening flaps are not glued to yet, since only still the larger cover (M1B on the sheet above) must to the left TSM side to, which projects laterally, to which then the opening flaps directly attaches.

The bizarre thing (M1C) in the center are parts of the pipings, which I will however not build of paper, because as a too reckless exercise appears to me, whose failing I would like itself to save gladly. That can be made surely more elegant from plastic profiles and wire, thinks I times.

The orange parts right beside the TSM are to show one the plug , whereby I do not realize myself however yet whether I will build those. Thus I must anyway still wait, until that will be finished shuttle (1:144), in order to see whether it would then still fit between them.

Here however first again the first TSM, still without decorating details such as pipings, cable, ports, etc., but at least already with the opening flaps in front and in the back as well as with the lateral cover to SSME chamber.

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8337/p10kr.jpg)

The next picture shows the preparations for the second TSM:

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5078/p11ikn.jpg)

Then there is a small difference in form of a curved hood, which pulls itself over the TSM curvature to consider with this TSM.

This curved hood (M2F) exhibits a lamellar extension, which is a Cable Tray according to D. Maier's kit.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1395/p12v.jpg)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/16/2012 08:24 PM
Here are some reference pics on another site. :)  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234927598
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/16/2012 08:56 PM
Hi OV135,

thanks for the britmodeller.com link with a lot of interesting pics and projects, really a great source.  8)

Manfred
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/17/2012 01:59 PM
In the meantime now also the other TSM is including hood so well finished, up to the pipings, cables and ports, and so on.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5371/24721305.jpg)

And therefore I already made a first fitting apart from SSME chamber. To firmly glue together I did not want the TSM's however yet, since the missing pipes and so on can adapt and be moved probably nevertheless more skillfully, as long as one takes the parts into the hand and as desired to turn and can turn.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5590/69083426.jpg)

Well please, thus the MLP gets now slowly also more and more a correct face,

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6844/25188807.jpg)

and accepts thereby now ever more clearly his salient courses.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6127/28853746.jpg)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2536/64411101.jpg)

In the meantime now also the piping mechanics already began with their work and a sample of the thicker two pipes(approx. 1 mm ) at the right TSM by right bent:

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/975/58597742.jpg)

After a first fitting, which actually looked completely acceptably,

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6300/81375390.jpg)

was one then however nevertheless the opinion that this cannot be the optimal solution. Since the thicker pipe has not continuous the same diameter, but should be absolutely improved itself within the front range before the Umbilical flap rejuvenated, as in the picture is to be seen here, according to opinion of the chief inspector.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9051/87017038.jpg)
Source: NASA

See times whether the boys still somehow managed.

While the piping mechanics at the TSM must wait still for the correct pipes, it could go for it with the Access platforms further, since the grating PE plates, mesh size 1.2x0.7 mm, in the meantime were delivered by MCM Marketing.

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8103/42870559.jpg)

Those are actually as small with 78x44 mm, as announced, do not look bad for it however.  8)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2585/p10ll.jpg)

The brass L-profiles 2x1 mm lay already some time in the camp. Now it can go then finally also with the Access Platforms at the MLP Side 1 further.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/18/2012 11:46 AM
Let's begin with the first Access Platform AP 1.

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2433/54791264.jpg)

Therefore next the measures of the platform marked out successively on the L-beam (2x1 mm), at the corners the narrow side (1 mm) carefully in each case a miter was in-filed, and the first bend already was done.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7511/98523749.jpg)

And it already went around the next corner and to the next bend, and so on However looks simply, the next pictures therefore in fast consequence:

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7965/80900249.jpg)

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9595/89742580.jpg)

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8687/58256391.jpg)

And the first framework was finished in principle already. And therefore directly to the PE-plate with the grating, to which now the framework measures became to transfer.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/631/41669700.jpg)

Afterwards the first part of the grating was carefully cut out,  8)  fit in within the frameworks and glued together with Superglue.

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6031/97966048.jpg)

Now the missing rest of the grating was to be only installed, and the first Access platform was so well finished already, up to the small framework for the camera landing.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3792/19526123.jpg)

And the boys created that just before the end of workday.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/883/99418927.jpg)

Next then the underbody with the girders and bracers is to do. Since I did not want to use the shown platform brackets from the Paper kit, plastic profiles were used. For the girders I used now H-beams 1.5x1.5 mm, which conclude the frameworks downward concisely with the L-beam. The planned I-beams 2x1,3 mm would have over confessed downward over the frameworks.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3103/p10r.jpg)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/18/2012 04:57 PM
So, well then ago with the bracers - Stop times people! These pipsqueaks one should not naturally want to glue in such a way from the hollow hand, that would not become accurate. Therefore I considered myself following small assembly aids for the right angles:

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9466/28405377.jpg)

And now it can start, and always carefully the bracers with the tweezers to snap, so that they do not jump aside again, with Superglue dabs and then fast and accurately at the characterized places diagonally against the platform carriers glued. And after the 9th bracer it was then finally done.  ::)

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8757/82688119.jpg)

And because it went so beautifully, directly still the first cross-beams were by right cut and adapted, which can be glued now.

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9486/72368377.jpg)

Well yes, sees already completely properly out for first, I think.  ;)

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2821/39193188.jpg)

In the meantime also the remaining bracers at the first Access Platform were installed.

Who looks exactly, will recognize that on the right of outside the last diagonal bracer is missing, which I removed from the following reason again: There was not completely clear me so far, how this bracer is installed, because at this place of Side 1 there is no vertical reinforcement profile, at which all remaining diagonal bracers push away.

As one in the next photo clearly can see (arrow), this last bracer is somewhat shorter than the others and supports themselves against the diagonal props of the Pedestal support off, while all remaining bracers prop away against the vertical reinforcement profiles of Side 1.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/749/47737430.jpg)
Source: NASA

Therefore this bracer can be installed only if this Pedestal support at the corner to Side 2 will be installed. There are a few small props in the original platform still, but without those I can live, particularly since I think that it looks so already acceptably. In the end it was anyway already rather stressful with the small parts.

Then I already out-looked for the sheet with the accessories parts, that would then next be the two Equipment pallets AP 1 C (left) and AP 1 D (right), on which then still different armatures will be installed, among other things a first camera (AP 1 G/H).

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/202/48274660.jpg)

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5075/85811186.jpg)

And like the first try-on shows, the platform fits nevertheless already completely well to its place.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3108/10573016.jpg)

And already it can go on with the next Access platform (AP 2), that is the lowest platform at Side 1, of one can arrive over stairs at the Crawler.

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2104/77262167.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here is the appropriate kit template, in which some, like this stairs to the Crawler, is only suggested e.g. Okay, who does not build the Crawler, this stairs do not need, but the opening is nevertheless present, and it reaches nearly up to the center of the platform.  8)

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7758/p10ir.jpg)

So long for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/19/2012 04:49 PM
And after the technology approved in the meantime it continued with the second Access platform AP 2. First again the brass framework was bent from L-beam 2x1 mm.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7275/66459136.jpg)

By the recess later stairs lead from the platform to the crawler.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5681/34252818.jpg)

Now the PE-plate for the grating has his turn, which must be marked out and cut exactly made to measure, which not at all times is so simple.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/893/56602917.jpg)

There one must look already very exactly and watch out infernally, in order to always remain when cutting in the same mesh. And if the lattice does not fit correctly then yet within the frameworks, just still another tiny mesh must be cut off.  ::)

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6716/45201040.jpg)

In addition one needs genuinly good nerves and above all a calm hand - and at the best still another magnifying glass, I at least. And those was genuinly helpful!  8)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4753/37357964.jpg)

And after careful sticking of the lattice together in the framework with superglue it was then finally creative.  ;D

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6536/46435286.jpg)

so, now the welders have made their job and installed the grating props. That were again the proven H-beams 1,5x1,5 mm as well as rectangle profiles 1,5x1 mm.

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5314/11633828.jpg)

Since this lowest platform at the MLP does not have further girders, it could be actually painted.  ;)

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6186/92662088.jpg)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/19/2012 09:38 PM
Next now the Access Platform AP 3 is in turn. That is the platform with important equipment and armatures for the fuel supply of the shuttle stack, in particular the LOX & LH2 Valve Complex, lain above the platform AP 2.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/7494/80696828.jpg)
Source: NASA

The surface area of the platform is this time fortunately only a simple rectangle, without sales or recesses. But there are above on it some difficult armatures where it guaranteed still some gives to fiddle about. On the paper sheet there is some again only hazily suggested, in particular the parts of AP 3 A-C , how one can see here.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9190/27434028.jpg)

Let's see, what one can make from it. Next property I bent the frameworks of the remaining two Access Platforms AP 3 (above) and AP 4 (down) from brass L-beam.

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3768/70278150.jpg)

As already said, the AP 3 is the platform with the LOX & LH2 Valve Complex armatures above the AP 2, and the AP 4 is the small platform at the right side of the Side 1 below the LOX & LH2 pipes.

(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8876/39090826.jpg)
Source: NASA

And there just a suitable rest of PE-lattices for the AP 4 was remaining, I still cut, fit in and glued together.

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/2451/15973350.jpg)

It continues to go with the props at the Access Platform AP 4, with which according to the paper sheet of D. Maier five girders as platform carriers just are intended.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4804/61514170.jpg)

First these girders were cut just from H-beams(1,5x1,5 mm) and glued in the framework. Besides the preparatory diagonal bracers from I-beam section (2,5x1,3 mm) already lie, with which the platform is braced against the MLP wall.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7105/71571207.jpg)

There I remembered again that with the platform AP 1 at the left side the last outside diagonal bracer could not be glued together yet, since the local Pedestal support is still missing. And that is on this side exactly the same, as one can see in the following picture. The front diagonal bracer of the AP 4 supports itself likewise against the reinforcing props of the Pedestal support off, which must be somewhat shorter therefore than the remaining bracers and therefore can yet not be installed.

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6752/56222153.jpg)
Source: NASA

With regarding the photo I saw that there are also still cross-beams and two further diagonal girders at the bottom of the platform for instance in the center, which Mr. Maier obviously saved.

Thus the bracers were put first aside by right and only the missing cross-beams (1,5x1 mm) were cut,

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4423/41683391.jpg)

together with two further diagonal props were then glued. And thus the platform should be sufficiently stable now in itself.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3117/p10po.jpg)

And in the end now the diagonal bracers came to the row, which support the platform against the MLP wall. For their assembly block was used as a plant assistance,

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2100/p11pw.jpg)

whereby the last outside bracer was still omitted for the time being.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7910/p12i.jpg)

So long.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/20/2012 03:33 PM
Thus, now I arrived finally to the last Access Platform AP 3 with the LOX & LH2 Valve Complex armatures. And there I try straight to pursue the props at the bottom of the platform since these are partly missing in the paper template.

I have found a picture, in which one can see the profiles of the platform very well.

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2672/p11ed.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here is again the paper template of the Access Platform AP 3 for memory, which look rather harmless from the structuring at first. As I know however meanwhile, that's not in reality at all like that, because already some props are partly missing, and even one is too much there.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/599/55660120.jpg)

As one can see in the picture, this platform is to be carried by five struts illustrated above. That is not correct however, what becomes clear from the following NASA photo (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/06pd0896.jpg) of the STS-121 in high resolution. There clearly the middle diagonal bracer is missing. I want to admit gladly that I recognized also only after repeated exact regarding and by comparison with further photographs.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6349/90422697.jpg)
Source: NASA

And in the photo of my the latter post and further pictures one can recognize quite well the arrangement of the girders, I have tried now to detail all as well as possible which should become a bold venture however altogether. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Thus I installed first only the four girders and the front middle cross-beam from H-beam (1x1,5 mm). The lateral cross-beams and diagonal struts are made from rectangle profile (1,5x1 mm). Afterwards the two cross-beams lying above should actually come to. Since there are however still further longerons just, I wanted to only bond these, since appeared complicated as somewhat less to me.

(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6569/88969311.jpg)

However, also like that the rest was a rather nerve-stretchin gaffair, which already cost me some time to this way, as one can see. And between the longerons just now still the tiny cross-beams must be glued. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/8180/65646048.jpg)

And here all the tiny cross-beams are now at its place, and still another few different props more, which was again a rather stressful action. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/stupid.gif)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3493/15254501.jpg)

And then only the four bracers are missing in the end. And those are then altogether flabby 37 individual parts, inclusive brass frameworks and grating, if I counted correctly.
Sometimes afterwards I am astonished at me, perhaps some one may also me doubt, but forget it ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)
If the platform is finally finished then, I have however only times enough from props and gratings and make three crosses ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif)
Now followed still the diagonal bracers, which were glued together again with the help of the assembly block.

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1047/83181605.jpg)

And that was relatively fast made.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/8916/81197934.jpg)

And with a small addition (?) as crowning conclusion - well, who from you has it discovered? - the Access Platform AP 3 was then finally finished, became yes also time. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/271.gif)

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5087/19703234.jpg)

And here again all four Access Platforms for the Side 1, from top to bottom AP 1 to AP 4, are in their whole splendor, from the bottom,

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1842/33193465.jpg)

and in the end again from above.

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2761/p10cw.jpg)

And thus now the platforms are finally completely to paint, and I make, as promised, + + +, seem to me slowly already as behind the bars ...

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/21/2012 04:18 PM
And to relaxation of the many lattices of the Access Platforms I planned now the MLP feet, the so-called Pedestals, on which the MLP with the shuttle stack stand beside the Launch Tower, if they were near dragged and set off by the Crawler.

Altogether there are six Pedestals, four at the MLP corners and two in the middle of the two sides (Side 2 and 4).

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/207/41394080.jpg)
Source: NASA

And that must naturally fit everything hair-exactly one above the other, before the MLP can be set off and bolted firmly. The platform must bear finally enormous forces during the shuttle start and stand still nevertheless.

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9942/11473664.jpg)
Source: NASA

So that one can set the MLP off on the pedestals, one needs admission devices for the assembly, and those are the so-called Mount Mechanism Interface (MMI). In the picture on the left that is the middle MMI at Side 4, and right one can see a corner pedestal. The two corner pedestals at Side 1 look some more differently.

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7633/94360446.jpg)
Source: NASA

In the paper sheet the MMI parts look like these:

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5879/76791902.jpg)

As one sees, are quite simple parts, and exactly the same they look then probably also at the MLP, as it were like small blocks. That would be now however nevertheless somewhat too simple for me, and therefore I had remembered the MLP Templates (P. 5-6) of AXM Paper Scale Model (http://www.axmpaperspacescalemodels.com/files/mlpbottom.pdf), which appears first still simpler, but built should them look surely more delicate.

And thus or similarly it could also have arranged David Maier now, or about not? But unfortunately he did not make that however, like some other details also not.

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7198/32638427.jpg)
Source: AXM Paper Scale Model

But for fun I built both variants to the comparison. First the baseplates come to the MLP bottom. In the kits template there only the pedestal numbers are printed on it.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1474/74538404.jpg)

Afterwards I took first times cardboard and tried two samples, therefore looks and judges to best.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6212/26153524.jpg)

The variant (left), handmade after the AXM template, was finally painted with the brush. Besides already lie the parts made from Sheet, like the final version probably will are, inclusive Airbrush finish.

Afterwards I attached for a test times both variants at the MLP, in order to have the direct comparison, as one can see here. The paper sheet variant would then still come naturally also on a small baseplate and thus on the same height, that you may not disturb you.

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8707/72946138.jpg)

But just honestly, which pleases variant you better? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/22/2012 10:44 PM
Hey guys,

it's a pity that no one says his opinion, don't you dare?  :-\

Now, the AXM version suits me better and therefore I'll scratch build the pedestals like this, because it looks much better and is more accurate in size in my opinion.  ;)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Dappa on 11/23/2012 03:23 PM
I'd say the one on the right (in the last image) looks more realistic.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/23/2012 08:08 PM
Hi Dappa,

thanks for your answer, you're the first guy who is giving a feedback here, congratulations.  8)

Okay, then we have the same taste, and a 3D design is obviously more realistic than the 2D design of the paper kit.  ;)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/23/2012 08:37 PM
At this pedestal detail a small general deficit of the actually great Paper kit of David Maier shows up.

All too small and above all still more complicated, spatial details cannot be represented of paper nevertheless so convincingly and can be converted still many more with difficulty. And in extreme cases completely tricky things can become then even easily unattractively, particularly regarded from the nearness. And that is probable the reason, why David Maier also sometimes abstain from it and some details are only suggested. And last but not least everything is a question of expenditure, both for the CAD designer and for the modeler too.

Therefore I want to build pedestals from sheet after the AXM template, but with small changes to the corner interfaces, which are missing in both variants so far.

As one can see in the next picture, the baseplates of the corner interfaces exceed approximately to the half over the MLP corners.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img338/9728/60066314.jpg)
Source: NASA

Therefore I have small angles of the supernatant corner interface made of sheet, which are glued together concisely with the corners of the MLP baseplate. Here one sees the individual parts for the corner MMI's, which was adapted on the basis of the AXM template still more to the original.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img9/422/p10gv.jpg)

And here are the next steps of the fitting:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img43/9231/90324078.jpg)

That is first the angle bracket (1.5 mm) with the main plate (0.5 mm), both from Sheet. Who looks exactly, the difference to the AXM template will recognize. Next the ribs (0.5 mm) had his turn, and so the mite grows then over continues to the corner.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img16/3398/50017295.jpg)

Now only a rear rib is missing to the Side 2, and then there was already the final fitting, which fit already completely properly and pleases me so also well.  ;)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img59/2020/69634058.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img23/4186/63860301.jpg)

And here is the corner MMI for the right corner on Side 1. Before it already lie the angle plates for the two rear corner MMI's at Side 3 and the templates for the side panels.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img96/3029/58245392.jpg)

And then still fast a picture of the fitting.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img132/2017/59334492.jpg)

And thus to the corner MMI's to the Side 3, which see actually exactly the same as at the Side 1, as one can see in the following pictures. Here the MMI opinion of the rear end of the Side 4, at the transition to the Side 3,

(http://imageshack.us/a/img580/4155/98659200.jpg)
Source: NASA

and here the opinion behind the corner, from the Side 3.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img145/2124/40093698.jpg)
Source: NASA

The individual parts for the remaining MMI's lie here already.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img194/2206/p10fo.jpg)

Those are now the six MMI's after their completion.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/4894/p11mt.jpg)


Now the parts are cleaned still of last finishing and then they finally can go for painting.  ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Dappa on 11/23/2012 10:48 PM
;D Certainly looks like you're having loads of fun with that Manfred! And it all seems to go really quick, how do you manage to do that?

It has been a few years since I built my last model, but you actually make me want to build something again. :) Little problem though: I moved out of my parents' house since then, so no more using my dad's tools. ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/24/2012 06:20 AM
Yes, that makes a lot of fun,  :) but that costs too much time to scratch build all these details.  ::)

You need not wonder, I am building for about a year on this project and post here one after the other the individual steps until I have got the connection to the current state. Then it goes on in real time and the progress will be then of course no longer so fast.  ;)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: jgoldader on 11/24/2012 01:19 PM
, I am building for about a year on this project and post here one after the other the individual steps until I have got the connection to the current state. Then it goes on in real time and the progress will be then of course no longer so fast.  ;)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)

Aha!  That's your secret!

What a tremendous build.  It is a wonderful reference for those of us planning to do the same project.  Thank you!

Jeff
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/24/2012 03:08 PM
Hi Jeff,

Oh no, I have no secret, I am just honest.  ;)  And that's why I show you also the construction progress in such details, especially for those who want sometime even to build a complete launch pad. And to do this I'll share many details in original photos as a reference.  8)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/24/2012 03:39 PM
Here is the next update with the six MMI's after painting. Those look here somewhat dark in the picture, are however brighter in reality, as one will directly see.

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/625/26480873.jpg)

Here are the two corner interfaces at the Side 1 after the assembly.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7260/46288111.jpg)

and here the MMI's to the other MLP sides.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6300/97045418.jpg)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4608/95925840.jpg)

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/619/51629135.jpg)

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2579/84795675.jpg)

Without large break equal still with the four Access Platforms for the Side 1. Before painting the platforms were cleaned in an isopropanol bath thoroughly with the brush and dried afterwards with a blow-dryer. And in such a way the platforms look now finished painted from above,

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6370/22559982.jpg)

and so at the bottom

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up017274.jpg)

And tomorrow the assembly follows.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Retired Downrange on 11/24/2012 04:01 PM
Amazing work.
Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/24/2012 09:54 PM
Thanks for the compliments and your interest.  ;)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/25/2012 02:33 PM
Any tips for a 1/72 scale MLP/ shuttle LC-39? :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/25/2012 03:49 PM
What kind of tips do you want to know?  :-\

You can build exactly the MLP in the same way as I do with David Maier's  MLP Paper Kit 1:72 in combination with a Shuttle stack by Monogram 1:72.

Do you want to build a Shuttle Launch tower (FSS & RSS) 1:72 too?  ::)

If so, David Maier offers a Paper kit 1: 72 too, which you can use to build the entire Launch Pad 39A,  8)  look

here (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Space-Shuttle-Launch-Pad-Complex-39A-1-72-Model-Kit-for-Revell-w-Boosters-/330741183699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d01b5f4d3):

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8047/maierlc39.jpg)
Source: www.ebay.de

Good luck!

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/25/2012 06:59 PM
But befor the assembly of the Access Platforms follows, here are still some other details.

At the MLP buttom side there are these two small air grids above the Crawler's cab, which should not naturally be missing.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3703/17999164.jpg)
Source: NASA

Because those are rather tiny, I used the fine-meshed ribbon for the lattices again. Among them the prepared frameworks with the black background already lie.

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3749/85451070.jpg)

Next the lattices were glued behind the frameworks, cut out these then and glued afterwards on the black background, that already were it.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8576/45054420.jpg)

And in this photo the air grids are already installed.

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8040/51127714.jpg)

Next the bottom plates of the MMI's (from the AXM template) were glued together and then the holes for the centering bolts were carefully bored ( 2.4 mm).

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9528/64520749.jpg)

Subsequently, below the Side 4 the three markings for the SSWS pipings and in the center four markings for the Crawler Transporter/MLP Mechanical Interfaces were attached.

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3311/99330872.jpg)

Those are the four support points of the MLP on the Crawler, which has in each case a distance from 27,40 m from each other, as one can see from this picture from David Maier's Crawler building guidance.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1050/41265719.jpg)
Source: EDU-Craft Diversions(CD-ROM)

In the end the centering bolts already painted ( 2.3 mm) were then glued into the drillings, with which the buttom side is complete now.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6716/86060469.jpg)

And now the welding operators have begun with the assembly of the Access Platforms, and like it itself belonged, naturally with the Access Platform AP 1. That is the largest of the four Access platforms here at the left front.

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9070/81224621.jpg)

On this platform there are some parts of the LOX Valve Skid, as well as filters and armatures, how one can see in this picture. To the protection from hot exhaust gases during starting these platforms are roofed over through Blast Shields.

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8214/p10ha.jpg)
Source: NASA

The associated parts in the used Paper kit look in such a way:

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6212/p11l.jpg)

There are two Equipment Pallets AP 1 C (left) and AP 1 D (right) with some armatures, as well as two panel retaining structures AP 1 J and AP 1 K, which however can be attached only after the assembly of the Blast Shields. I have put the pallets here provisionally on the platform.

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5463/p12so.jpg)

In reality the right pallet is however no closed platform but a framework from H-Beams, as one can see here in the following picture of the right pallet with the LOX Filter in the center.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6280/p13fo.jpg)
Source: NASA

So long!

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/26/2012 01:34 PM
I'm building the entire LC-39 set when it arrives. :)

I plan to use styrene for this  1/72 scale set.

I'm also adding the  truss span that  spans the width of the flame trench that the LC-39 FSS/RSS doesn't include.  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/punkboi/punkboi2/main2_LC39B_002.jpg

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/ksc/LC39/LC39%20tranchee%20et%20deflecteurs.jpg 

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/ksc/SSWS/SSWS%20tranchee%2004.jpg

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/2012-6286.jpg
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/26/2012 02:44 PM
Wow, what a nice project, I'm already now interested in.  ::)

What kind of model kit is that you want to use, or will you use David Maier's Paper Kit as a template?  :-\

BTW that truss span you are meaning is the so-called North Bridge, which I also still want to build.  ;D

And for this, the last photo is well suited.  ;)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/26/2012 09:21 PM
Thus I probably will scratch-build the right pallet from H-Beams (1,5x1,5 mm), in order to remain closer at the original. With the left pallet (AP 1 C) it looks somewhat differently.

And here is my first attempt with parts of the paper kit, in order to show the difference to the original better, so that you can judge.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/756/94596463.jpg)

Here the first armatures are to be seen on the right pallet, on the left the "Black Box" with a piping to the right in the back and behind it the LOX Filter. The box as such does not exist in such a way in the original. Those are here again only hazy suggestions of the pipings left from the LOX Filter, if you want to compare with the last picture. And now still another further detail is added.

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7995/88776041.jpg)

That should be the mounting plates of different pipings which there stand in front of it.

The more I look at myself against the original photographs, the less I am convinced of the paper details, particularly since it looks really differently in the original MLP. I mean also that the H-Beams framework is some more longer and extends to the left, probably up to the end of this Bay with the inlet of the white LH2 Pipe into the MLP wall, which leads then to the TSM. One can recognize the inlet as black point left above the box.

It seems to me that I must think about it still more exactly.  8)

And here is a update to the Access Platforms, which are now completely installed.

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9253/33770184.jpg)

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1199/83482931.jpg)

Between the AP 2 and AP 3 the first supports were drawn in.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5660/84826614.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/476/63535939.jpg)

And then still completely surprisingly the stair builder went past and already took measure.

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/853/68254452.jpg)

So it can go further.

That would have been also too beautiful, but thus the safety check agreed unfortunately not at all, which was turned up suddenly and for the surprise of all and concerning the platforms gave some editions, which are shown by the following picture:

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2697/33250214.jpg)
Source: NASA

The inspection did not only have complained the missing platform bracer over the corner MMI interface (right arrow) , which was in the meantime already improved. Above all however it was criticized that between the lower platform AP 2 and the outside AP 4 a stabilization prop (left arrow, I-Beam) is missing, which must be absolutely still attached, before the final inspection can take place!  :o

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/628/p10eq.jpg)

But those inspectors are right, safety first!!! And therefore the welders drew in the complained of missing props also fast, as one can see here.  ::)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6212/p11l.jpg)

And now finally all are content.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/27/2012 06:03 PM
And so that again back on the Access Platform AP 1, where I had already begun with the two pallets from D. Maiers Paper kit, which did not so completely convince me however. And therefore I assiduously scanned archives again for detail photographs.

As one can recognize in the following picture from below the left Equipment Pallet, this pallet is a closed frame construction with a coverage.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9826/40666408.jpg)
Source: NASA

At least the middle range (without gratings) is closed upward and one can even recognize some girders. From the same photo series there is a further picture from something other position. And on that one can recognize the following details with experienced view (and eagle eyes  ::)  ):

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5779/62752731.jpg)
Source: NASA

In the ranges marked by arrows actually light from above shines through.  That would mean that only the middle closed part belonges to the left pallet which has a coverage. In D. Maiers Kit the left pallet is closed, but sits however directly before the MLP wall. And I assume strongly that it has also no break as with D. Maiers kit, but continuous exhibits the same width.

In the meantime I investigated also in NSF forum and found thereby these two detail photos of the left pallet, which seems to confirm my theory. In the first picture one sees the framework of the pallet behind the grating strip with pipes and armatures of the LOX Valve Skid.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6025/70304470.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceflight.com (J. Patterson)

And in the second picture of the same place one can recognize the rear grating strip in front of the MLP wall.

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/521/98728381.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceflight.com (J. Patterson)

After these questions are clarified now to the pallets on the Access Platform AP 1, finally far can be with the practical work on the right Pallet of the LOX Valve Skid, which is to be seen in this photo again beautifully.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4374/31570498.jpg)
Source: NASA

For the framework I essentially use H-beams 1,5x1,5 mm.

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5946/48342402.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8083/18795105.jpg)

As one can see however in the previous NASA photo, the pallet sits not concisely on the grating, but stands for something increased on small bases. And those I'll build then tomorrow, together with further cross beams and bracers, up to the base frame for the LOX Filter.

Therefore first times eight small bases came as feet under the right pallet from square profile 1,5x1,5 mm.

(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1663/97994858.jpg)

In the center the two small extensions indicate already the location of the LOX Filter. Then there are several cross beams on the framework, on which further mounting plates for pipings etc. sit, from which first is installed here already. The cross beam is H-profile 1.5x1.5 mm, the front prop from T-beam 1,5x1,5 mm.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8236/51805037.jpg)

Further left there is still another second mounting plate of this kind, which is to be seen in the next picture. Then I have built the next miniature, that is the mounting plate right beside first with the T-beam, which has a special structure, which I had to look at myself and then consider only longer time, from which I can make it best. For the base frame I finally took then after some preliminary tests failed a H-beam 3.0x3.0 mm and on it still few small parts from sheet glued.

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8768/p10gl.jpg)

And I must say, these details stop genuinly and require already some at patience and concentration. Up to now about 25 component parts are in the pallet, and those are not yet all, if you look back to the NASA photo. Well yes, I wanted it in such a way, now I thereby began, and now I'm also keep on doing. I think already that the expenditure will be worthwhile itself ...  ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/27/2012 10:46 PM
Mt model will be entire built from scratch using the paper model as a guide to get the scale of the pieces right. :)

Say will you be adding the elevator that is inside the FSS side of the small structures attached to the FSS? There is one also on the opposite side as well. Unlike the FSS, this elevator is easily visible for obvious reasons. It's shown in the old Apollo films when the astronauts board at the pad.

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/LC39%20pad%20A%20structure%20generale.jpg

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/LC39%20connection%20sol.jpg

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/LC39%20ground%20to%20lut%20side1%20et%204.jpg

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/LC39%20ground%20to%20lut%20side2.jpg

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/28/2012 08:50 AM
Have you even decided which STS mission you want to build?  :-\  It depends what looks like your FSS Tower. In the early years of the shuttle era the launch tower looked different than in recent years.

David Maier's LC 39 Paper Kit shows the FSS tower in its latest design at the STS-135 mission.

Since I decided for the STS-6 mission with the Challenger, I'll use the Detail kits of LVM Studios, which one can build the elevator shaft of the tower in the original building technique with the red lattice windows.

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8312/fahrstuhlschacht.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you know the launch towers of Pad 39A and 39B later were reconstructed and rebuilt several times, where the elevator shafts were then covered with steel.

The LVM Detail Kits I've presented in a special thread (in German), you can look here (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/viewtopic.php?f=169&t=13932).

Detail kit No. 1 contains e.g. parts for the complete staircase in the tower, which is completely missing in the Revell Kits 4910/4911.

These are photo etched parts (PE) from thin brass sheet metal, with which very finely detailed structures can be produced as well known.

BTW, I don't know what you mean with the other elevator on the opposite side of the FSS? Have you a photo from this side?  ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/28/2012 01:35 PM
Mine will be as David's kit shows. :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/28/2012 05:50 PM
This is the STS-135 mission, of which there are a lot of good close-up photos, after which you can scratch alt the details.  8)

But so I don't know what you mean with the other elevator on the opposite side of the FSS ever still.  ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/28/2012 06:23 PM
Before it continued to go to the left on the pallet, it however still gave another surprise by a new photo.

I had already stated that the right pallet in D. Maiers Paper Kit is somewhat too short. And on the basis of photos I've meant that it goes at least to something over half of the Bay 6 outside. In the meantime I know it more exactly. The pallet goes even up to the border between Bay 5 and 6, how one can see in this photo.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3262/11627245.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceflight.com (Jay Patterson)

The arrow marks the left end of the right pallet framework. Keep in mind for orientation the foot of the camera to the left of the arrow, and if you then look at the next picture, you can see, where that is about on the platform.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5131/51741138.jpg)
Source: NASA

The right pallet is so long in reality, it reaches up to the arrow, and thus the pallet from D. Maiers Kit is approximately 1 cm, too short nevertheless!

That means that I must extend my pallet framework still by the missing piece up to the border between Bay 5 and 6.

Thus first times the pallet framework was extended on the left by the missing piece. Then were added still a few new details. For the LOX Filter a small platform was prepared from two small H-Beams and sheet, already the round profiles for the filter was ready put. Besides a further piping mounting plate lies.

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3574/55886441.jpg)

In the meantime I've noticed from pictures that there are obviously different designs of the LOX filter, depending on which MLP was used. With the MLP-2 the LOX filter sees in such a way from as in this picture with the STS-132:

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2993/97557075.jpg)
Source: NASA

The LOX line flows here directly into the filter part with the largest diameter. Differently it looks e.g. with the MLP-3 with the STS-124. There the filter has several diameter gradations, and the LOX pipe flows into the lower part with the smaller diameter.

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3685/42454274.jpg)
Source: NASA

And here now still another photo with the new details on the right pallet:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5383/62847817.jpg)

I followed to the thing with the different LOX filters again and therefore I looked at myself in particular older photos of the earlier Shuttle missions. And afterwards is it really like that: The two MLP's MLP-1 and MLP-2 have this filter, as it is to be seen on the panorama photo of the STS-132.

And here to the confirmation is again an older picture of the STS-63 (1995), on which this type of filter on the MLP-2 is to be recognized well with High resolution (2x click). And with the STS-6 MLP-2 was likewise in the use with this LOX filter.

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7029/78880113.jpg) (http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/1986-95/1995%20STS63%2095PC-0112.jpg)
Source: NASA

The MLP-3 against it had always the other filter design, as in the photo of the STS-124, which would be clarified thereby.

Since I dedicate my project to the mission STS-6, with which the MLP-2 was in use, I therefore tried to scratch-build this type of LOX filter.

Here are the parts necessary for it. Those are two different pipe diameters, which larger (5 mm) for the top, into which the LOX pipe flows, and a smaller part under it, which sit on the small platform, as well as a cover sheet.

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8051/93628336.jpg)

Beside the cover sheet lies a small board, which sits before the filter on the pallet framework. There one must look then later already exactly, in order to recognize it. And then the filter in the top has still a circulating nip, which I would like suggest as ring. In addition I used a thin wire (0.4 mm), which I preformed around the thicker filter pipe.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6781/24153081.jpg)

That can be glued now on the prefabricated filter with superglue.

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/411/p10hx.jpg)

And that is now the finished LOX filter, and besides to the comparison again the filter from the Paper kit. With one by the way sees the small board mentioned above on the black underground.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5381/p11e.jpg)

And that's now the fitting of the nearly finished right pallet, which could actually go now into the paint shop. A few small props in addition had still come.

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9282/p12p.jpg)

Now naturally still the thicker LOX and LH2 pipes as well as some thinner pipings, as well as mounting plates/clips, etc. are missing ...   ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/28/2012 09:20 PM
The elevators on the smaller service structures at the base of the MLP, the links I gave show them. :) This one for example shows them. The two labeled engine Servicing and Access Stairway have elevators inside to go to the T-0 level of the MLP.

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/LC39%20connection%20sol.jpg

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/29/2012 07:37 PM
Yeah,

now I understand what you mean. These are Service structures and Utilities interface platforms around the MLP, so shown in this isometric view here.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2360/bersichtsplanarrows.jpg)
Source: NASA

These are interesting questions, concerning the scratch-building of a special Diorama, I'm also very interested in. Therefore this probably will be the last part of my major project too.  ;)

And therefore let us discuss these questions in a new extra Topic (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30491.0), I've just started.

Now, I hope that you will there connect with your specific questions, I am also very interested in.  8)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 11/29/2012 10:43 PM
I'm looking at the thread now.

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/30/2012 07:36 AM
And it's time now to take next the LOX and LH2 pipes. I want to proceed in such a way that I begin first on the Side 2 in order to see, how the two main pipes run around the corner to the Side 1, in order to manage the local binding well in particular those the LOX pipe, which leads inevitably by the LOX filter.

Here in this picture one can see quite well, how the pipes run around the corner.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9662/63085494.jpg)
Source: NASA

Let's have a look at the LOX-Pipes for Side 2. Those are here the pipes and Pipe Supports from the Paper kit, of which with however, honestly said, I have a horror.  :o

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7033/41803009.jpg)

In particular if I look at myself and present in addition the handling layout in such a way in the following cross section to have to turn this tube duo together/into one another/against each other of paper, that frightens me! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6834/35802017.jpg)

And to all abundance still with these small diameters: From the circumferences of the pipes from the kit one comes for the somewhat thicker LOX-pipe (white) on a diameter of 1.7 mm and for the LH2-pipe(grey) on 1.5 mm.   

But before I begin with the LOX/LH2-pipes, I wanted to plan after the Right pallet now also still the Left pallet on the Access Platform AP 1, since I know meanwhile, how it looks now with high probability in reality.

And also this pallet differs from David Maier's Paper kit. It is a closed frame construction, thus with a cover, but has however no break, something other dimensions, and sits not directly before the MLP wall, but about centrically on the Access platform, as will be to see alike.

There is no beautiful complete top view as with the right pallet, but nevertheless good front and side views, on which one can recognize something.

In this picture one can see the total length of the pallet, which reaches from Bay 1 to Bay 4,

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4235/31153780.jpg)
Source: NASA

and in this picture the end of left side, from which one can determine the width of the pallet.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8734/70231392.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com (Jay Patterson)

And those here are now the individual parts of the pallet, without break, the framework from I-beam (2,4x1,2 mm) and the cover from Sheet (0.4 mm), and behind it to the comparison again the pallet from the Paper kit, with break.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/953/13706459.jpg)

On the pallet there are otherwise only the mounting plates for the LOX- and LH2-pipes, which run in different height and distance from the MLP wall.

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2576/89272358.jpg)

And looks already completely acceptably, as I find.  8)

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2955/65096139.jpg)

n the meantime I tried to measure the diameters of the LOX/LH2-pipes from reference photos so that the pipes can be installed now finally. I wanted to begin on the Side 2, on which the two LOX pipes run. The something thinner of the two pipes is the white LOX Transfer line, and the thicker (grey) the associated Vent line.

I will make the lines however not of paper but from plastic, what appears me simpler and above all more stable. For these two fuel pipes there are eight Pipe supports on the Side 2. And those are in the paper template already considerable mites, which one can recognize in this picture on the basis the size comparison.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7005/52541795.jpg)

I wanted to try it in any case, however when cutting out and folding already nearly despaired. It concerns gate widths of approx. 1.5 mm, in order those to fold itself several times would have, in order to model from the thing a framework. And that is an almost hopeless venture, because these thin bars very fast can tear up and one can hardly hold anyway. Although I am very patient actually and not like fast give up, I finally let it be and tried something else.

With the second support I glued first one half on cardboard (1 mm) and then cut these out, partial without the creases with the shears, the recesses for the pipes however with the cutter, which was to be made just in such a way. Afterwards the second half was cut out and glued on the back. The result one can see here in the next picture.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1235/p10oe.jpg)

In addition, that is at least practicable, but the support looks not so great, particularly since the Pipe supports in reality look somewhat differently, as one can see in this photo.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7695/p11my.jpg)
Source: NASA

Apart from the only suggested upper free Pipe opening it is veilful me why the Pipe supports are implemented in the Paper kit not as closed frameworks, in addition the middle bar is continuous. Thus all in all that's not a convincing solution, therefore I will try, to scratch-build the Pipe Supports from plastic profiles, although that might become surely also no sugar licking.  ::)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/03/2012 05:45 PM
Before it starts with the Pipe supports from plastic, first however again briefly back to the two pallets on the Access Platform AP 1, which I had painted some days before. Afterwards regarded, the cover of the left pallet appeared to me then nevertheless somewhat too evenly/brightly,

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3969/27659326.jpg)

why I adapted it to the color of the MLP deck somewhat. And in such a way it pleases me now nevertheless better.  8)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/4057/17128752.jpg)

And now to my attempts to scratch-build the Pipe supports on the Side 2 for the two LOX lines from plastic, here again the first prototype from paper/cardboard to the comparison beside the new from plastic.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4848/84496414.jpg)

For the front frame parts I used U-Beams 1.7x1.0 mm, and for the remaining parts rectangle profile 1,5x1,0 mm. And it doesn't look bad nevertheless, up to the connection of the lower bevel, and this prototype is already in any case more stable than the paper variant. Completely contently I am not however thereby also because of the different profile thicknesses (1.7 mm - 1.5 mm) yet, why I made still another further attempt.

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2897/63921772.jpg)

With this prototype (in front) the entire support is from I-Beam 1.5x1.2 mm, which the actual profile thicknesses and profile form better corresponds. Therefore I will remain now with this type and will manufacture the remaining seven supports in the same way. If I had it nevertheless only already ...

I've just found a new photo of the Pipe supports at the Side 2, on which one can recognize their structure somewhat more exactly.  ::)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9846/11243290.jpg) (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/2011-5583.jpg)
Source: NASA

How one can recognize on it when high resolution (2 x click), the cross-beams of the supports are not full profiles, as I thought so far, but flat angle profiles on both sides of the framework. And there I thought in such a way, All good things are three, and built still another third prototype of the Pipe support, which copies this structure in approximately, as is to be seen in these pictures:

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5219/75493699.jpg)

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6960/43423851.jpg)

That is the same framework from I-beams 1.5x1.2 mm as with the 2nd prototype, and the cross-beams are Evergreen flat profiles 0.75x0.25 mm, since there are no so small angle profiles. And this support is more delicate and for my taste still a little bit closer to the original than the other one.  8)

And although there are four parts more, this support lets itself manufacture nearly some more lighter than the type of predecessor.

And therefore I started with the series production of the remaining seven Pipe supports for the Side 2. But I cut myself first times the individual parts, the frame parts from I-beam 1.5x1.3 mm and the cross-beams from Evergreen StripStyrene 0.75x0.25 mm. That were altogether 77 individual parts, which could be only manipulated with the tweezers. In addition then still Superglue (Pattex Ultra Gel) and toothpicks came for the stressful sticking orgy.  :o

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7042/62690961.jpg)

And in such a way the result looks, hardly to believe guys, but it is actually done, and I'm down, but happy. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2788/70422604.jpg)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4930/p10sn.jpg)

The ends of the cross-beams are now still carefully deburred and/or filed, and then the supports can be tried on already at the Side 2, in order to adapt still the lateral struts.
So far for today, thank God (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) , that would be done for a start. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/271.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/05/2012 04:13 PM
And after the joy promptly the disillusionment came, because there an unexpected problem emerged suddenly. In the transition from the Side 1 to the Side 2 there is a small, but nevertheless serious error in the sheets of D. Maiers kit, which stops for a start the transfer of the LOX Pipes and prepared me headaches. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

As is to be seen in this picture in the original, the lower edges of the bar, on which the first Pipe support sits on the Side 2 (left arrow), and the lower edge of the Access Platform AP 1 on the Side 1 (right arrow) lie on the same line, i.e. thus on same height.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9972/59863376.jpg)
Source: NASA

That is unfortunately not in the Kit sheets however like that, as is shown by the following picture. Afterwards the suggested Access Platform AP 1 is on the Side 1 approx. 2 mm more highly than the lower edge of the bar, on which the first Pipe support (s) sits, and thus too highly for the transition of the lower LOX Pipe, particularly since on the Access Platform still the left pallet with a height of approx. 2.5 mm and on it then still the mounting plates of the LOX Pipe sits.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4968/84145347.jpg)

The discrepancy becomes still clearer from the following picture, with which I put a Pipe support with the lower LOX pipe in addition.

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3982/33866920.jpg)

Now please do not disturb you to it that the kit template is on a scale 1:144, my Pipe support however 1:160. One nevertheless clearly sees however, where the pipe walks on the Side 1, and as minimal the gap is between the suggested Access Platform and the pipe lying over it. There now no pallet fits between them, neither with nor without mounting plates with the best will.

The matter of price is now, where the error lies? Does the Access Platform sits correctly on the Side 1 or the prop and thus the first Pipe support on the Side 2, which then yes still further seven supports follow? One of both must be changed in the height, or be adapted perhaps also together however, so that the pipings in the height fit. Still good advice is expensive.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Therefore I must try now to measure the situation of both components as exactly as possible on the basis of good detail photos in order to be able to decide thereafter on the change. Possibly it come down yes also to a compromise.  ::)  The state of affairs is joyless, but not hopeless. Larger problems it would give in any case, if I had to set the Access Platform more deeply, because it glued rather firmly. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/cry.gif)

I property therefore tried out, as it looks, if I shift the pipes so far upward in the pipe supports that still place for the left pallet with its pipe supports on the Access Platform on the Side 1 remains, if I would leave the Access Platform in the height in such a way:

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3886/61794468.jpg)

Now would be still enough place for the left pallet, however at least half of the cross-beams for the pipe supports would sit too deeply on Side 2. But somehow this solution does not please me, since the pipes run upward forward too far, so particularly it looks somehow unrealistically, or what do you think?   ::)

Well times sees, how I will solve that, however actually only the larger evil would remain, in addition I would have to really eliminate the Access Platform AP 1 now again and put it somewhat more deeply, in order to win place, what a horror thought!!!  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/cry.gif)
But long speech, short sense, we say in Germany, I bit into the sour apple and decided me nevertheless for the Emergency Operation. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  The EO was laborious and stressfully, but in the long run successfully, patient is appropriate still in coma, is however surprisingly so far okay. That is the advantage of glueing with Superglue on paper, it holds on very fast, gives way however during bending load then sometime suddenly, and that's mine turn out well.

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/442/80923725.jpg)

I had introduced the operation myself actually more badly, and/or first than venture nearly offering no prospects. With large caution and patience nevertheless to some extent succeeded then, although I occurred myself thereby however like a dentist, who had to pull all four wisdom teeth at once. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Meanwhile the sticking props for the Access Platform are put according to deeper, so that the vertical height is balanced now and the LOX pipes on the Side 2 can run as before. Tomorrow the platform is then again glued to, and then the Pipe supports can be installed onto the Side 2. I consider only just whether I adapt, glue the lateral bracers at the supports still before painting and paint the supports then completely, or whether I paint the supports only still without bracers, afterwards glues to, and afterwards glues the before painted bracers to?

That is unfortunately somewhat pedantically with this mixture technology of paper and plastic, but, which is it, thus must I live, nothing is impossible ...  ::)

After the EO-Repair the platform on Side 1 could be installed and lies now somewhat more deeply.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7775/72666259.jpg) 

And so place for the left pallet is now also still sufficient, over which the LOX Pipes can run.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9936/70328906.jpg)

Some little things, except which lateral bracers, have however to be still re-tooled at the Pipe supports. So that the pipings rest upon about centrically in the openings of the supports, still small bearings from Evergreen Strips 1,5x0,38 mm must be applied on the two lower cross-beams. Otherwise the pipes lie somewhat too deeply, which does not look so great.  ::)

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6969/95678275.jpg)

I cut the strips somewhat longer (4 mm), so that it can be glued more simply into the support openings, the overlaying rest after tying the Superglue one cuts off and the edges afterwards carefully one smoothes. Then it is enough in addition with the stressful handling these mites, up to the diagonal bracers, which must be still laterally glued to after the assembly of the painted supports. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6774/65580116.jpg)

After now all Pipe supports got their bearings, the paint shop could be pleased once again about a larger order in grey. Beside the supports should be painted there also directly still an evergreen profile (0.75x0.25 mm) for the lateral bracers, a round profile ( 1.6 mm) for the grey LOX Vent Line on Side 2, a H-beam (2.0x2.0 mm) and an I-beam (2.5x2.3 mm) for bracers and Pipe supports on the pallets on the Access Platform AP 1, as well as the ladders for the two TSM's.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5026/p10kl.jpg)

For painting the nice Pipe supports (14.9x4.8 mm) I had to consider myself a retaining possibility. In addition I bent paper clips upward and attached the supports to it with few tiny Superglue droplets. The ladders were fastened with narrow adhesive tape strips to toothpick.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2674/p11md.jpg)

The Pipe supports let themselves solve after painting completely easily from the holding.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5898/p12thg.jpg)

Thus nothing more stands in the way now to the assembly of the Pipe supports and the lateral bracers on the Side 2. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/07/2012 08:49 AM
Before I begin with the assembly of the Pipe supports, I tried to build the LOX Pipes from the Paper kit. I hope you still remind you of these photos.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5584/64665930.jpg)

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8106/51150266.jpg)

The production of this thin, but with approx. 30 cm relatively long pipes from paper is a delicate process.  ::) And so I tried it nevertheless but only with the white LOX transfer line, as one can see here in this picture, over it lie to the comparison a plastic round profile.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2217/11188226.jpg)

Okay, that is feasible in principle, however nevertheless altogether a quite lengthy procedure, until one before-rounded and to a tube formed the paper strip halfway over a core, particularly over this length. And of small breaks that is not at all alike evenly approximately and freely anyway not, and particularly stably already.

And now one would have to roll the tube up for glueing first again over the whole length something, in order to put the glue on an approx. 1 mm broad and to approx. 30 cm long fold and then with the glue again cleanly roll up ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  , I believe, also that is not cleanly feasible without core, and by the way - also not without 19th nervous breakdown ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_eek2.gif) Then one can better take a stable round plastic profile rather, which I will make in any case. And one can bend that then also still around the corner, if it must be. Therefore I have also built the Pipe supports from sheet.

And now it is finally so far, and the installation of the LOX Pipes on the Side 2 can start up. In addition I aligned first the two pipes for a test between the first and last Pipe support and marked the positions of the supports, which have an easy downward gradient from the Side 1 to the Side 3. I stated to my surprise that there are not only eight, but even nine supports on this side   ::) , why still another support had to be ordered additionally.

Then I glued together the first four Pipe supports, first the front and rear, and afterwards the second support from the front and one for instance on the side center, and the downward gradient of the lines comes so far completely well.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7150/p31t.jpg)

Next the cut of the diagonal lateral bracers (0.75x0.25 mm) for the Pipe supports came to the row.

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7393/89132425.jpg)

Afterwards I began with glueing of the lateral bracers, which are arranged by the support times on the right side and times left.

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5624/19661268.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8733/74282121.jpg)

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2953/23269653.jpg)

Before there was however still another small aha-experience. When exact looking it noticed to me that there are not only eight Pipe supports on the Side 2, but even nine of them. Thus made something happy to early, and therefore still one support had to be ordered additionally, before the manufacturing sketches disappear perhaps still in sinking.  ::) 

And therefore here only still smaller side trip to a few interesting Pipe details. It would be also too easy to push simply only the two naked LOX Pipes by the supports onto the Side 2 and that was it then, but hello! There are still the so-called Expansion Joints in both lines, or also stretch flanges, as well as shorter, thicker Pipe segments, which occur in each case in different dimensions, therefore here are a few photos in addition:

Here first on Side 4 into the LH2-Pipes, where the Expansion Joints are somewhat longer,

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5620/66218065.jpg)
Source: NASA

and here on the Side 2 the somewhat shorter building in the LOX Pipes:

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9900/79764944.jpg)
Source: NASA

And here one can sees a detail pic of such an Expansion Joint.

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6417/p10e.jpg)
Source: United Space Alliance: STS-111 Flight Readiness Review (2002), GO-18

But naturally the exciting question comes now, how one could probably scratch-build these flanges best?

There are e.g. drinking straws, which everyone knows, with which the bends have such bellows, but I only know such straws with approx. 5 mm in diameter which unfortunately is too thick. Therefore I tried out for it first times the following winding technology with simple garden wire. That is the 1.6 mm round profile for the LOX lines, and whereupon on the right a coil from 0.4 mm wire and on the left of beside it with 0.6 mm wire, and on the left of one of line swellings. One must vary there surely still with the wire sizes, whereby the right wire surely seems still to be too thin.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up019931.jpg)

That was now only a all first hand attempt without large precision, and as one sees, the meanderings run inevitably somewhat diagonally. If one is not yet content thereby, one can improve also some more. For such things a view is always worthwhile itself into the decoration department of a tinkering shop, where I e.g. discovered then these small rings, and thought that it could go thereby possibly still better.

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8833/p12ao.jpg)

The rings are 0.8 mm strongly, have an outside diameter of approx. 4.5 mm and would here be a possible option for the thicker LH2-Vent Pipes on the Side 4 with 2.7 mm outside diameter. In addition an attempt with these rings, which I planished and easily bent together somewhat. Several such rings drawn up next to each other on the round profile, such a stretch flange were then showed, still without gluing.

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2269/p13d.jpg)

And I find, whereupon can be constructed, or? And which do you mine in addition? Or are there possibly still better proposals?

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/07/2012 01:47 PM
For a 1/72 scale version. would the screen mesh used for storm doors work for making the grating of the FS levels and  MLP?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/07/2012 03:21 PM
What kind of material is this, made of plastic or metal? Have you a photo in order to see mesh size and thickness?

How do you plan the scratch-building of the FSS level framing? I think, you don't need only the gratings, you need also a sub-construction/framing of plastic profiles for sufficient stability.  ;)

For the framing of the MLP Access platforms I have used angle profiles made of brass and PE-gratings, how to see in my thread.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/08/2012 10:08 PM
A photo, no, sorry I don't. It's the same type of mesh you see covering the windows of a house or screen door. The one I got is made of plastic or vinyl.

I will build the framing first and lay the screen mesh over it for the grated floor.

I found in my 1/72 scale set I got a spare set of the FSS access arms for the LOX vent arm and Orbiter Access Arm. Did you get those with yours? :)

What did you use for the curved pipes for the MLP?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Silmfeanor on 12/09/2012 03:07 PM
Amazing work - such attention to detail. I've lurked this thread for a while, but all I do is marvel at the pictures :P
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/09/2012 03:27 PM
A photo, no, sorry I don't. It's the same type of mesh you see covering the windows of a house or screen door. The one I got is made of plastic or vinyl.

I will build the framing first and lay the screen mesh over it for the grated floor.

I found in my 1/72 scale set I got a spare set of the FSS access arms for the LOX vent arm and Orbiter Access Arm. Did you get those with yours? :)

What did you use for the curved pipes for the MLP?

You can use fly-screen for the grated floor, that's okay. But as you know, the mesh of the gratings on the pad and the MLP are not square but rectangular, if one just takes it exactly.  ;)

I don't know what kind of spare set of the FSS Access Arms for the LOX Vent Arm and Orbiter Access Arm you have or mean. Take a photo and show it. Maybe I will use the Access Arms of the Revell kit or I'll scratch-build it from plastic profiles.

At the curved pipes, there are two versions, both you can see in this photo of the LH2-Valve Skid.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4794/57680187.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceflight (J. Patterson)

There are normal curved pipes and also segmented elbow pipes. Both types you can scratch from plastic rods or tubes, as I also did it.  ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/09/2012 03:30 PM
Amazing work - such attention to detail. I've lurked this thread for a while, but all I do is marvel at the pictures :P

Thanks Silmfeanor for the nice words, I'll try my best and will show you more.  8)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/09/2012 07:14 PM
I see, there are no better proposals for scratch-building of the Expansion Joints.  ::)

With the exact comparison with the detail pic of the Expansion Joint (EJ) it noticed to me that the proportions of my solution with the rings, presented last, seem to be correct nevertheless not completely. In addition the rings with a thickness of 0.8 mm are nevertheless somewhat too strong in relation to the pipe diameter of 2.8 mm for the LH2-Vent Line on the Side 4 and should be rather somewhat thinner.   

Therefore I checked for the examination of the proportions the dimensions of the EJ on the detail pic again, and came thereby on the following proportions:

EJ-Diameter:Pipe-Diameter=1,4

as well as

EJ-Diameter:EJ-Ring-Thickness=9,5.

And from this follows e.g. for 2.8 mm pipe diameter a thickness of the EJ-Rings of 0.4 mm, which might show a more realistic picture than with 0.8 mm rings.

For the LOX-Vent Line on the Side 2 with 1.6 mm in diameter would result thereafter a thickness of the rings of 0.25 mm. And thus my all first coil with the thinner wire did not lie at all 0.4 mm so far away, which however first not at all like it looked. On Macro photographs such details look always rather clear, although these differences from normal point of view will not be noticeable probably however at all so much.

Thus I will have to look around for appropriate wire sizes.  ;)

Since the procurement some more drags on, I concerned myself in the meantime with a further nice MLP detail somewhat more extensively. Here again a photo of the Ladder Cages, which are installed at both corners of the Side 1.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4701/46195313.jpg)
Source: NASA

In David Maiers kits look these baskets in such a way:

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2292/30334337.jpg)

That would be then only such obscure tubes with the suggested outlines of the baskets, which would not please me however at all, that's an absolute NO Go! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

Therefore I originally wanted to procure myself for it the PE-kits for fire ladders for the trace N, which would fit from the size well, which would cost however again something. Therefore I considered for a long time back and forth to what one could take for it possibly for improvisation, in order to save for something work and costs. Since I found however no suitable lattice or similar aids, I thought that I could scratch-build the baskets possibly also from thin Evergreen profiles, the suitable ladders I had already procured myself for the two TSM's.  ::) 

In order to be able to start correctly, one needs naturally first however only some dimensions. And therefore I have searched my picture collection for good Hi.Res.-Photos and evaluated appropriate photos, measured i.e. diameters, distances, wall thicknesses etc.,converted it on 1:160 and not badly been astonished, which for delicate mites would become. For the baskets one needs rather thin Strips, whereby I decided in the long run for 0,25x0,5 mm.

Next I considered myself the fact that one does not manage probably without template and without a core and has looked for appropriate round material with approx. 6 mm in diameter and made me a sketch of the completion of the basket . Then I tried to bend a Styrene Strip around the core to windings and under a hot-air hair dryer to rings in hope that they maintain afterwards their diameter, which also in principle goes, although they expanded themselves again somewhat.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4472/92319753.jpg)

Therefore I started a next winding attempt and used a core with smaller diameter and wound the strip more carefully under hot-air, which supplied better rings.

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4628/70675016.jpg)

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2929/42748862.jpg)

Since the use of the completion sketch as template for sticking the bars and rings together on the core would have led to the enlargement of the basket diameter, I had in the long run done without it. Afterwards I have drawn the location of the strips and rings on the core and whereupon first fastened the ladder and the longitudinal bars with tape.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6656/92413722.jpg)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6967/42144154.jpg)

Afterwards the rings were roughly cut,

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2301/97205593.jpg)

and afterwards glued with Superglue around the bars, which was however not completely so simple. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3915/p11zrb.jpg)

There were easy problems with the replacement of the ladder basket of the core, which stuck nevertheless in some places. With the careful loosening of the splices I had to watch out infernally, since the 0.25 mm thin strip can't bear not very much and could easily break. There I must be still more careful when next sticking and dab less Superglue.  ::)

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9909/p10xj.jpg)

But in the long run nevertheless succeeded in getting the basket down welfare and cutting on length, and it looks nevertheless completely tidy, as I find.  8)

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9844/p12ft.jpg)

And in such a way then the provisional fitting at the MLP looks.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9408/p13b.jpg)

Now the upper exit beside the ladder must be only opened and the basket afterwards be painted. With the result of my prototype I am so far completely content, with somewhat more exercise could next perhaps even some more better succeed.  ;)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ares67 on 12/09/2012 07:29 PM
Manfred, your careful attention to detail and technical expertise building this MLP is quite impressive as is the documentation of your effort here at NSF. Obviously you must be doing that while the glue is drying

Mach weiter so! (Keep up the good work!) The world is watching

;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/09/2012 08:46 PM
Hi Oliver,

thanks for your kind words, your comment give me encouragement to keep pushing on.  8) I usually use superglue, there would be not much time.  ::)

BTW, how far are you now with your STS-6 thread?  ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ares67 on 12/09/2012 09:40 PM

BTW, how far are you now with your STS-6 thread?  ;)


No promises - but I'm currently seriously considering kind of a "Challenger 30th Anniversary Special" (which will include STS-6, STS-7 and STS-8) - targeted for the middle of next year (probably after the STS-32, STS-36 and STS-31 threads, which are currently in work and will be posted during the first half of 2013). Again, no promises, but...  we'll see.  :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/10/2012 05:55 AM
Hi Oliver,

that's a nice idea, to surprise all of us with a "Challenger 30th Anniversary Special", (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

I'm pleased and I'm very curious. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/10/2012 06:57 PM
So, and because the first prototype already had succeeded completely well, directly still the second ladder cage should follow. Now I have refined some handles somewhat, whereby the procedure should be simplified.  ;)

This time I've glued the vertical bracers next to each other in the necessary distance on two thin masking tapes. This 'bracer lattice' I put then around the core and fixed it together with the ladder with some masking tapes too. That could be done in any case more simply than with the first time, I had presented the bracers just separately and had fixed them successively with masking tapes. And then again rings under the hot-air hair dryer were wound and cut from it.

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8950/57899006.jpg)

Afterwards I glued the first ring only at one side of the ladder as starting point. After the Superglue has hardened I pulled the ring loop something to the side and successively dabbed all splices on the bracers with Superglue and immediately thereafter pulled the ring loops with the tweezers in one turn around the bracers and let them glue. One can still make quite small position corrections, if one hurries somewhat. And in such a way that could be done actually completely well and the ring sat rather exactly on the marking.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2585/22891811.jpg)

and here the other side with the endpoints. The supernatant ends were cut off and finally all outside splices to the ladder were carefully sanded.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9051/64954799.jpg)

And there now both ladder cages stand and wait for the finish, the recesses for the exit and in the end the painting.  ::)

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8826/45936454.jpg)

And to the end still a nice matter of price for the eagle eyes  ::)  among you: How do both ladder cages differ, which is your opinion? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif) 

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/11/2012 09:05 PM
What did you use for the railings and stairs? I didn't have luck finding the appropriate scale part at the local hobby store.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/11/2012 10:08 PM
I'll use railings and stairs from the railway modelers, size N in scale 1:160, because it's the same scale I use for my MLP.  ;)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/11/2012 10:24 PM
I admit gladly that it is also not completely simple to recognize the difference which I did not notice at all also long time.

The right (new) ladder cage has 2 vertical bracers just more than the first cage left, i.e. 7, to hardly believe, isn't it? But truely, look at the last picture again exactly!!!  ;)   

With regarding the ladder cages it always depends on the point of view, and there is all too often the case that bracers totally overlap by the cage roundness every now and then and/or that one sees a bracer exactly from its narrow side, where it appears to one then nearly only as line and therefore during counting will survey. But I looked at meanwhile a lot of such photos (if possible HiRes) and again and again measured the details at the screen, and only by it one slowly receives then so an experienced view for it by accurate to then look.  ::) 

Favorably for it therefore photographs of the side are, less favorably photographs directly from the front are, because the lateral bracers are not to be recognized there nearly.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif)

With the differences of the ladder cages with the MLP's 2 and 3 in the comparison to the MLP-1 I do not want at all to deal now, whom it interests, which can inquire, the difference is only slightly, but nevertheless saliently. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

At first I counted also only 5 and/or 6 bracers. Therefore here again an enlargement of a well-known photo, on which one can recognize the 7 vertical bracers just as still separately despite the blur, admitted with somewhat good will, and/or if one knows it then, it is not a problem. Therefore now to taking in account from 1 to 7, whereby one should pay attention to the shadow and back tapers.  ;)

And now eagle eyes, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  attention please!

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4905/26385029.jpg)
Source: NASA

And the difficulty for the eye at the latest now becomes clearly with recognizing the individual bracers, hopes I nevertheless at least, because middle 4th and the 5th bracers are to be only recognized separately by the experienced eye as thin lines. May be for someone that it is now nearly already like as nitpicking, or? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

Whereupon I came by checking the distances between the bracers on photos, which should amount to converted on 1:160 only approx. 1.4 mm, which had appeared to realize me at first with the building of the first cage as nearly impossible. Therefore I had distributes only 5 bracers evenly at the extent with the first attempt, outgoing from middle bracer. From this then bracer distances of nevertheless approx. 2 mm resulted with the first cage, which is a little to much.

Therefore I decided to distribute with the second cage with exercise and somewhat more skillful technology 7 bracers at the extent which is quite still feasible, as one can see. And now once more look again exactly at the picture with the two ladder cages and you can count 5 bracers to the left and 7 to the right cage, isn't it? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Clearly, the difference is not noticeable anyway nearly, if one does not know it. And therefore I will use the ladder cage also still in other place of the Pad.

And at the opportunity to the end still another small supplement for the sake of completeness. At the left Access Platform was added still another cross-beam between the two outside diagonal bracers, which was still missing so far. And in this recess at the corner of the platform, which is by the way missing in David Maiers kit also, then the left ladder cage sits.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/12/2012 02:10 PM
What scale would work for the railing and stairs for my model? I looked on Evergreen and Plastruct's sites and can't find anything to match what I  am looking for.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/12/2012 04:20 PM
I have determined the height of the MLP from a photo, which should be 15.8 mm for your 1:72.

The height of the railing for my 1:160 is 6.5 mm.

I think, that railing of the model railroad scale H0 1:87 probably comes the closest for your build, or but ship railing.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/12/2012 10:10 PM
Today's post is more a consideration in preparation for further steps than strong building, what however can be quite also helpful. In addition I out-looked for myself now the LH2-Pipe supports for the Side 4 of the Paper kit, which looks similar as the LOX-Supports on the Side 2, whereby there are however some differences:

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2201/58749287.jpg)

On the one hand there are even 10 supports on this side, however only with two openings for the two LH2-Pipes, and on the other hand they have different overall heights, which makes the work more difficult naturally already somewhat. If one looks exactly, one can recognize that the distances of the pipes in the supports become larger from left to right, thus from Side 1 to Side 3, and thus the support heights of LH 4 A to LH 4 J gradually rise. Best one can recognize by the increasing strength of the small middle bars between the pipes, which are represented only as stubs in the Paper kit, strange to say again why not continuous. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif)

The first four supports LH 4 A-D are equal high, afterwards the height up to the last support LH 4 J rises gradually altogether by 4 mm.

While the LOX Pipes on the Side 2 runs almost parallel to each other, the LH2-Pipes runs to the rear increasingly apart thereby, which one clearly can see in this photo.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8277/17864992.jpg)
Source: NASA

From the constructional structure the Side 4 supports resembles those on the Side 2, why for the support frameworks again I-beams 1,5x1,2 mm are used.

And there we straight with Pipe supports are, there are also still special supports at the MLP corners, which look different all, but are noticeable to one first hardly. These supports serve for the stabilization of the line sheets at the corners of the Side as well as the connection points for the Pad inlets at the corners of the Side 3 and are to give an absolutely firm connection. Here are a few photos of it:

Here at the corner of the Side 1/Side 2,

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/729/19238685.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

at the corner of the Side 2/Side 3,

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9426/96823671.jpg)
Source: NASA

at the corner of the Side 3/Side 4,

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7267/61186440.jpg)
Source: NASA

as well as at the corner of the Side 4/Side 1.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6029/33136064.jpg)
Source: NASA

In the Paper kit one sees, how small these four corner-supports are, so that it would probably hardly be noticeable, if one would omit it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3390/25009202.jpg)

And here are the associated assembly sketches:

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4149/38793079.jpg)

I still considering whether and/or how I can scratch-build these corner-supports best from sheet.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/13/2012 02:54 PM
But before it continues to go with the Pipe supports, only still the second Ladder cage for the other corner of Side 1 was tackled, here is a picture of the preparation of the longitudinal prop shutter, which is then put around the core.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5306/29925648.jpg)

In this fixed condition by masking tapes if necessary the distances between the longitudinal props can be balanced with the tweezers some more.

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6372/77517963.jpg)

The rings are already wrapped as you can see, are now scattered and then glued in the best way in the gaps around the longitudinal props.

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3724/78139964.jpg)

And thus the two ladder cages are also managed and can go in the paint shop.  ::) 

Now I have trial bent the LOX-pipes for the corner-flow on the Side 1/Side 2, after I previously made somewhat docile it with the hot air dryer and made a first provisional fitting while the correct pipe supports on the left pallet of the Access platform but still missing.

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2271/44669130.jpg)

And finally even a small addition to the Expansion Joints in the LOX-pipes. Now I have provided me lead wire with the appropriate diameter of 0.4 mm for the grey Vent line and made a pro covering. And that goes with the lead wire as lubricated, which is soft, allowing even balancing the coil slope.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7213/75450342.jpg)

And since I probably or evil anyway must divide the pipes into segments due to the expansion joints, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  I still stamped flange discs ( 3 mm) from 0.5 mm sheet with a croppers coming left and right next to it. Overall though something can be expensive, but because of the pipe support unfortunately unavoidable. The pipes just push through the supports, would be too easy.  ::)

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9837/52142810.jpg)

And, one could imagine the smaller expansion joints in the white Transfer line as a package of three such discs with small spacers, similar to the next image.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7268/73698523.jpg)

But maybe I should better take somewhat thinner sheet (0.3-0.4 mm) for these discs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/16/2012 08:59 PM
So, but now it really goes on with the Pipe Supports on Side 4. Because the LH2 Pipes on this side with 2.5 or 2.0 mm have bigger diameters than the LOX Pipes on Side 2, therefore also the pipe supports are slightly larger and more stable than on Side 2. I had described in detail the differences already in a previous post.

A peculiarity of the Side 4-Pipe supports is that the grey LH2 Vent Line rest on roller bearings, while the white Transfer Line rest on normal cups with Teflon pads. The different bearings and more robust implementation of the Pipe Supports in particular to the end of Side 4 is beautifully seen on this photo.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7180/33444992.jpg)
Source: NASA

The size differences between the supports on Side of 4 (rising from left to right) and those on Side 2 (same size) become again clearly visibly in the next picture on the basis of Back up-Templates of the Paper kit.

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1554/75052103.jpg)

On the next picture you can see some of the used profiles, as well as my mounting template. For the frame I used I-beam 1,5x1,2 mm and for the cross bracers Evergreen strips 1,5x0,25 mm and 0,75x0,25 mm.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2665/66432740.jpg)

And because the pipe supports are so tiny and one don't look at how much effort still stuck in them, their fitting is to show more detailed in the following pictures:

First, the two vertical parts of the frame are positioned on the template.

(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2365/46969224.jpg)

As favourable for glueing using a spacer bar turns, so that the distance between the parts of the frame and thus support width is always the same.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img201/5640/montage2g.jpg)

Afterwards, the two upper narrow cross bracers (0,75x 0,25 mm) are glued, were measured slightly longer for the better handling during Superglue-bonding and therefore easily survive. Before glueing the bottom wider cross bracer, but it remains the slanted framework piece must be glued because its position is covered by the broader cross bracer.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3954/73055624.jpg)

To do so, the spacer bar is taken from the template and the support removed. Next the slanted piece of frame can be prepared, tailored and then glued.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5551/28257362.jpg)

And now also the lower broader cross bracer can be glued.

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/641/14009709.jpg)

And then the cross bracers on the other side of the support are glued in the same way.

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8020/p10bg.jpg)

And now missing only the bearings for the pipes. Here I indicated the bottom roller bearing with an U-beam, 1,7x 0,9 mm, and for the upper bearing an Evergreen strip 1,5x 0,25 mm was used. For size comparison, you can see above the last missing support from Side 2.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7657/p11i.jpg)

These are only nice small parts, but also want to be configured only once, and that takes some time.  ::)

Here are the first four Pipe supports for Side 4, which are not longer than 15 mm.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6352/p12cod.jpg)

And the two LH2 Pipes fit through the holes with the supports, so all okay. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7615/p13bt.jpg)

And, as already described, the next support is then somewhat longer than the first four.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/17/2012 03:17 PM
Have you thought to make resin molds to make copies of the original parts? The scratchbuilt part you originally made and then make a mold of it to make resin copies of. It saves money and time with some parts. :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/17/2012 08:48 PM
No, I have not thought about resin molds for copies. These are all much to various parts with a difficult shape.  :-\

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/17/2012 09:05 PM
And it continues with the remaining six Pipe supports for the Side 4. As already mentioned, the supports on this side are making little more work because it from the front (Side 1) after rear (Side 3) become gradually longer, and therefore for the parts again and again measure must be included.

A support consists of 11 parts, so that total as 110 parts were to process. This was a pretty hard job, but now it's finally done, and my stressed eyes can recover somewhat.  ::) 

From left to right, you can clearly see the increasing length of the supports despite slight blur.

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/951/56007857.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6644/76984514.jpg)

By the fact that in addition to the length of the supports the middle cross bracers from the front to the back are gradually increasing, the LH2 pipes run necessarily somewhat apart, what but so must.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1811/41054866.jpg)

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7370/26463199.jpg)

So, therefore a certain dry spell has been overcome now, which has held up pretty, and after painting the supports, pipes on both sides can be shifted then finally. I will warn the guys in the paint shop ever, that they should do the job quickly so that it can go further. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 12/18/2012 02:26 PM
I can tell by your model how much fun my build will be. I've yet to begin.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/18/2012 09:35 PM
I'm already curious and excited about your first photos.  ::)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/18/2012 10:09 PM
As there were not enough Pipe supports on both sides of the MLP, but the pipes must be held also on Side 1, and to do this you need which there again. Because I am just so beautiful in exercise, I wanted to exploit the momentum and I occupied myself therefore first of all with the supports of the LOX-Pipes on the Left pallet of the Access platform, which look different to the supports to both sides and present rather typical tube mounts known.

Good photos, where one can see details, are rather scarce, which is why I had to already a little search and research. Finally, I have found but some useful shots that well can be seen the different supports, which are seen in this photo.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2350/61867243.jpg)
Source: http://www.capecomespace.net

The supports marked with red arrows wear the lower LOX-Transfer line, which was still white on Side 2, but also grey from the corner. And the supports marked with green arrows wear the above and behind running LOX-Vent line.

You can see unfortunately not much with regard to the supports, from D. Maier's Paper kit. As you can see in the following picture, the supports of LH 1 (Vent line, above) and LH 1A (Transfer line, below) hang of the pipe segments off and will certainly make lots of fun during the rolling and gluing the pipes on the I don't like but to.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8607/74229821.jpg)

The arrangement of the LOX-Pipes looks in the paper kit also again different than in the original. As you can see from the Assembly map, the pipes run to D. Maier on the pallet that is located immediately before the Side 1 directly in a row, what but so is wrong.

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8840/96843259.jpg)

As previously several times was to see in photos, the left pallet is located roughly in the middle of the Access platform, and the pipes have a significant distance from each other.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9662/75769411.jpg)
Source: NASA

I've fiddled some time around, how to scratch build the supports the best and tried several types, which can be seen in the following images.

The supports for the Transfer line are only about 1 mm high and were made of different Evergreen strips.

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2007/93787098.jpg)

And here, the first finished prototype is a real mite, indeed,

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2699/87995877.jpg)

and here the sample for fitting on the pallet:

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8550/72094256.jpg)

The supports for the vent line are higher and somewhat more robust built. Here I have to juggle something with the height. For the base I used first H-beam 2 x 2 mm. The height of this prototype but with 3 mm was unfortunately a bit too low for the required pipe height.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9326/30677968.jpg)

Therefore I have made the second type with little slender foot (H-beam of 1,5 x 1,2 mm) little higher with 4 mm, what better fit.

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2695/88614760.jpg)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7654/p10pk.jpg)

Here you see both prototypes, where the foot of rear seemed too strong but as something.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8145/p11tg.jpg)

And here is the fitting of the supports on the pallet.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2431/p12c.jpg)

While the three supports of the Transfer line are the same, the third (inner) support of the Vent line is wider than the first two, a double execution, as on this point a junction in front of a drain blind flange is located to the LOX-Valve skid on the right pallet, good to see as here on one of the earlier photos.

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2604/p13ko.jpg)
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com (J. Patterson)

So, now I need to build "only just" rest supports for this pallet. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/19/2012 05:56 PM
Hello, and let's go!

Here are the two remaining Pipe supports for the LOX-Vent line on the left pallet.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1124/24313688.jpg)

As you can see, the second support differs from the first by a cut-out, and that has its reason. Repeated exact looking at the supports on photos I noticed, that the LOX-Transfer line running immediately in front of the supports of the LOX-Vent line exactly at this point has an Expansion joint (green arrow), which takes his place.  ::)

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6584/41544065.jpg)
Source: http://www.capecomespace.net

And so look the supports on the pallet.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1273/62666593.jpg)

Then I have looked again in the paint shop and asked me after the progress of work, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

but so far all has been prepared and wanted to get started right. The ladder cages also still were on the list.

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/121/71513909.jpg)

And behold, it goes forward but. The grey LH2 Vent line and the Evergreen's profile for the oblique bracers with same they painted, great job done. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4039/81738783.jpg)

And the Ladder cages are now also as far as ready for the assembly, are set but still aside. A joint had resolved itself and must be glued again.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img717/2483/laddercagesend.jpg)

Now can it go actually with the assembly of the Pipe supports on Side 4. Here, only the different sizes of supports must be observed so that then the gradient of the pipes is also true.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img341/2550/12347749.jpg)

That is now done, and thus the Side 4 looks now also already quite passable.

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2026/74042740.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/9428/55350967.jpg)

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6480/p10t.jpg)

And here again something up close.

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5683/p11iw.jpg)

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/818/p12xe.jpg)

Now, only the lateral oblique bracers missing, which are to be installed tomorrow.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/20/2012 07:44 PM
And here is a further update, so to speak, the look-up to the Pipe supports on Side 4.

There were to assemble "merely" the lateral bracers, are installed the times right, time left, but from photos like this in HiRes (click) is good to see.

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5075/25636152.jpg) (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/2009-2301.jpg)
Source: NASA

And here are the prepared 20 bracers from Evergreen strip 0,75x0,25 mm for the 10 pipe supports:

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8154/51581876.jpg)

The glueing of the bracers with Superglue was again nothing for the faint-hearted, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) but rather what for quiet hands, and was hard to make without stopping your breath when attaching the bracers to the supports. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) But ultimately all bracers sit in place, thank God. And that seems out of Side 3 to the front to Side 1:

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7571/30241274.jpg)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/451/60046227.jpg)

The different side order of the bracers should be to recognize.

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7382/81370079.jpg)

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5425/88551443.jpg)

So, that's it then for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/21/2012 08:31 PM
And here is a further update on Side 4, because we are just so beautiful here. Before there the LH2 pipes will be permanently installed, there is a nice little thing to do, which would make otherwise unnecessary circumstances. There are namely in the Bay 16 four so-called Pneumatic Vent Mufflers, how I now have be explained. These elongated parts here are:

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1330/42710037b.jpg)
Source: NASA

On Side 2 there are two similar parts in the Bay 3, which are arranged horizontally:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1836/54319641.jpg)
Source: NASA

These parts are pneumatic outlets for venting the LH2- and LOX-Vent lines, because without ventilation are not a fuel that could be otherwise filled through the Transfer lines.  ::)

The Vent mufflers on Side 4 look in the Paper kit:

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3756/76284298.jpg)

Only simple tubes, with the lower lines are only hinted at what was released but again too simple would be. Here, such model is time to see.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5466/86237861.jpg)

Because I don't love so much these implied Maier Kit Details, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  I wanted to scratch-build the mufflers first fully plastic and had been prepared already the two round profiles. Then I have only scratch-built the bottom lines and used but the upper parts with the opening, what looks together quite well:

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4381/39873194.jpg)

Here I however separately glued the glue seam of the tube, so that is not an edge, and glued a plastic core to stabilise and a small U-beam as bracket. The line is a 1 mm round profile with a ring made of 0.5 mm lead wire to hint the connection clamp. And so the other three Vent mufflers look:

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/373/71792210.jpg)

And here after mounting on the MLP wall:

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7259/68772992.jpg)

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7552/30568519.jpg)

And here you can see now probably also why the Vent mufflers had to come before the final installation of the LH2 pipes tuned.

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/144/64397961.jpg)

So long.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/22/2012 06:37 PM
And because I was just at such small things, here a short update concerning furter pipe brackets details. There are next to the Expansion joints even so-called Pipe anchors. Additional brackets which will probably stabilize these slightly weaker areas of the fuel pipes are as seen here in the picture on the Side 4 in the detail right can see above. The front 3rd Expansion joint on this side (far left) is stabilized by the corner-pipe support at the Side 1.

(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7069/94116873.jpg)
Source: United Space Alliance: STS-111 Flight Readiness Review, GO-18 (2002)

These are only very small parts, which can hardly be seen behind the pipes, but they are now included. And since I now know that they exist, I tried also to scratch-build this. Since they directly sit on the vertical reinforcement bars, I have used H-beams 2,5x2,3 mm, at least to indicate the anchors.

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3707/15505785.jpg)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6307/99463636.jpg)

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3341/45965249.jpg)

So, I will return to the Side 2 and want to finally start the installation of the LOX-pipes. But first I must scratch build the corner pipe support, here relatively good to see is in these two images, so that one can identify in about the dimensions for scratching.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7082/92982061.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5672/97644169.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/23/2012 08:09 PM
First the small bars from Evergreen strips 1,0x0,2 mm or 2,0x0,2 mm were cut and then glued, which sit on both sides of the corner angle profile under the base plate.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1416/24576171.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9615/43032897.jpg)

Unfortunately my digicam having a hard time generally somewhat with the resolution of white parts, however I will not deprive but the recordings you. Then was glued the base plate made of 0.3 mm sheet for the two pipe holders now.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8888/79203990.jpg)

The holder for the upper grey Vent line corresponds to about a H-beam 1,5x1,3 mm, I just but not had in stock. Therefore I made it from Evergreen strip itself and filed the semicircular openings for the pipe. The two pipes are inserted here only provisionally.

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/125/12711856.jpg)

The holder for the lower white Transfer line is here already with glued, it is missing but the triangular lock for the bow, which, in contrast to the vent line is not rounded but segmented. Because the transfer lines are vacuum jacketed double-walled pipes, these cannot be bent easily as the vent lines. I will install but only the transfer line this stiffening triangle after bonding, is here to see the segmented bow.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2981/74655586.jpg)

And with grey colour which looks now just something more friendly.

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1403/39267508.jpg)

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7109/15518875.jpg)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6056/17053356.jpg)

And so the little things that really can stop one are but omit I don't want they therefore also.

As far as for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/24/2012 09:47 PM
Hello to Christmas Eve,

before it's going in the holidays yet still a short salute to the Festival.  ;)

It continues with some details of the LOX-Vent line on Side 2. There are a total of three Expansion joints, the structure of which was already seen in earlier photos. I started with the expansion joint in the Bay 18 at the end of Side 2, which sits between the corner angle profile and the first Pipe support. Then there is still the second a little further right in Bay 13, and the third is in Bay 1 at the front of the Side 2.

First I have wrapped rings for the mutual flange joints of square profile 0.5x0.5 mm and then bent under hot air and separated some.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3905/15599174.jpg)

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3981/54416908.jpg)

For the boot I used lead-wire 0.3 mm in diameter, which is wrapped and later glued to the 1.6 mm round profile of the vent line. A blank flange with a gasket ring for connection to the LOX-Vent line of the pad is located at the end of the line, I indicated by three small sheet slices.

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9515/11757185.jpg)

And so looks like the finished Expansion joint.

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6085/44492177.jpg)

And at this point here next to the corner it is sitting, if it is painted.

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2703/82447437l.jpg)

And the other two expansion joints are manufactured according to the same procedure, only I have twice split the line for the installation and after insertion of the segments then reconnect, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  otherwise not go but unfortunately.

And now I wish all guys Merry Christmas and good rest.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/santa.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/27/2012 09:53 AM
As the LOX-Vent line on the Side 2 total has three expansion joints and that next just behind the corner of Side 1 is followed, so a few pieces had to be prepared in the same way as before.

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8563/50588588.jpg)

And in the meantime a shift-work in the paint shop was due then also once again, with some pipes and the pipe supports for the left pallet on Side 1 were painted.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7066/67877189.jpg)

Since unfortunately little can be seen by the odds and ends on this photo here are again a few other pics.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/1295/10300250.jpg)

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6253/81199472.jpg)

The small part on this photo left in addition to the pipe supports for the Side 1 should be a Pipe anchor be coming as a support in addition to the central expansion joint of Side 2, as this somewhat less stable pipe areas are each additional fixed.

And now the first part of the vent line at the rear end of Side 2 could be installed at last.  ::)  To build the second expansion joint in Bay 13, I had to cut the vent line there unfortunately. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  From here, I then have pitched a further piece of line with an expansion joint (see photo 1) through the pipe supports forward out and both glued carefully with each other, which is hard to see. This second piece is running up into the Bay 1, where the third expansion joint sits, which then can be glued to, whether with or without the line bow around the corner I must consider me still. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2351/49022131.jpg)

The procedure is admittedly somewhat circuitous, but unfortunately not avoided. And then still the pipe anchor came on his place left in addition to the central expansion joint.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6766/97811643.jpg)

The white LOX-Transfer line is inserted so far only provisionally and is supposed to get a few details. I am considering as it is only, whether I extra still white paint the line or to leave, what do you mean?

As far as for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/28/2012 08:26 PM
So up to the corner of the Side 1 I had come already with the LOX-Vent line,

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1962/25017268.jpg)

But this corner it has in itself. There an Expansion joint sits in front of the corner and immediately the next following after the corner on Side 1, unfortunately it is difficult to see.

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1349/54139137.jpg)
Source: NASA

This corner is just critical for the stability of the pipes run, that's why the two pipes are held by an appropriately stable and several reinforced corner-pipe support, which is better to see in this photo.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1627/44703501.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

What is more, that the white Transfer line at this point also has a critical section in the form of a weld, which sits under the sleeve below the expansion joint of the Vent line.

In the paper kit, the bracket is only done by this small and only one side printed (why?) Pipe support LH6, which I will omit and therefore better scratch-build.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5056/91324432.jpg)

Therefore I looked for longer time on different photos the constructive version of the corner support, in order to correctly detect and then somehow scratch-build it. Conceptually he is constructed similar like the corner support at the corner of Side 2 to Side 3, only he uses forward through more honeycomb-like sticks continues, because the Transfer line further extends over the corner as the Vent line. So again a pretty tricky task of Ervergreen strips and sheet.  ::) 

These are the five wedge-shaped struts from 0.2 mm sheet left sitting next to the corner angle profile.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7249/70951655.jpg)

And here they are already glued and have received a final cover strip of Evergreen strip 1,0x0,2 mm. The start has been made, and now it can go further with this honeycomb-like structure on the right side.

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/9366/25900938.jpg)

Then until tomorrow, so long.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/29/2012 08:43 PM
And here is the next update. Now the struts on the right side of the angle profile and beyond were added. These are such small puzzle particles, you can capture that hardly with tweezers without having it jump one of. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/999/17738921.jpg)

Here an impression of the size of the particles, the lower triangle with a length of about 1 mm, which was swabbed with superglue and then as far as possible placed in the first step into the right place. And then it sticks either there where it belongs, or to the tweezers. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6382/25385515.jpg)

And now the lateral plate is glued on the struts.

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7444/67215583.jpg)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8490/p10ce.jpg)

And here comes now a further small building on it. First the struts for mounting the bracket of the Transfer line were glued.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4145/p11vs.jpg)

On the struts, the plate is mounted now actually, what the bracket sits. It is prepared already, and just I wanted to glue it already on the struts, but since dropped me a just in time that it would be probably better once to paint so far left building, as it could be otherwise may be difficult to get behind with the brush still in the small holes. So, the previous support was painted first. And that was actually better than I thought, of course with a very fine brush.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9282/p12p.jpg)

Next the bracket for the Vent line was prepared from an Evergreen strip 2,0x0,25 mm, which was filed on 1.8 mm in width and suspended on a trial basis, to identify the required length and the supernatant of the bracket.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6876/p13o.jpg)

Then the bracket was painted. While the paint dried, the already painted plate on the struts was glued now. After the Transfer line was inserted same time to the fitting, to determine their location and distance from the support.

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8076/p14be.jpg)

The Vent line bracket was then glued on the rear plate.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9656/p15ij.jpg)

The bracket for the Transfer line is similar to and then tomorrow comes on the front bottom.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4325/p16f.jpg)

As far as for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/31/2012 03:47 PM
And here is a last update for this year.  ;)

It goes on with the lower bracket for the transfer line, as a supplement,

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1749/96986461.jpg)

and then the fitting of the provisional transfer line that fits quite well. The final pipe is the arch but not round, but is still segmented.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/922/31176073.jpg)

Next I have planned now the alignment of the vent line in Bay 1, starting with the third and final Expansion joint on the Side 2, directly behind the stub, and then around the corner on Side 1 goes further, where already the next expansion joint follows.

(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/434/49634047.jpg)

Right next to the prepared expansion joint is already the bearing cups sitting on the pipe supports of the vent line on the left pallet. I had that cut from a PE tube ( 2,75x1,6 mm).

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4656/49690257.jpg)

Here the pipe are as reminder again to see the pipe supports with the bearing cups in the original:

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9361/71172114.jpg)
Source: http://www.capecomespace.net

And here is the vent line as fitting to the pipe support installed. Since one must watch out that fit the gaps and matches the level of the connections, and this looks already not bad, both on Side 1,

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1605/65080371.jpg)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/713/19495165.jpg)

and Side 2.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/820/54823905.jpg)

So, the rest of the vent line can now go to the painting and then be mounted. Then, only the reinforcement angles in the arches of the pipes missing as here to see in the picture with the arrows.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img521/2048/ecksupportblechepfeile.jpg)
Source: NASA

And in the new year it continues with the transfer line on the Side 2, starting again at the corner-pipe support at the end.

So, and thus the old year now so slowly but surely coming to his end.  ;)

I'd like to thank you for your interest and the helpful feedback and wish you a happy new year and a healthy and prosperous 2013.

(http://www.clipart-kiste.de/archiv/Festtage/Neues-Jahr/silvester-neujahr_www-clipart-kiste-de_025.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/02/2013 04:15 PM
Hi all together,
   
I hope you all had a good start into the new year. Here is the 1st update in 2013.  ;)

The pipe men have really not easy time and only had to wait for the painters which had taken a few vacation days more!  ::)  But now the tube bend of the vent line around the corner on the Side 2/Side 1 has been painted at last and could be installed immediately after fitting the pipe supports.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1879/28147569.jpg)

This is now not so much business, but at least, with small steps to get to the destination too. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6611/47448032.jpg)

This is, as I said, the critical corner between the two Expansion joints, which is why in the tube bend of the vent line extra still a stiffening angle was welded, the just yet as can be seen. Right, this line section of the vent line reaches until to the end of Bay 4, where a drain hole is located, which is sealed with a blind flange.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2043/97354804.jpg)

At this point, there is a branch line in the vent line, from which it then goes to the LOX-Valve skid with the LOX-Filter, as shown here in the picture.

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6956/58439832.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson  (NASASpaceFlight.com)

This is in the following picture the place directly behind the right green arrow over the local pipe support.

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1055/12147193.jpg)
Source: NASA

These pipes want to take seemingly no end ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/04/2013 05:33 AM
Hi guys,

I hope, you had a good start in the new year.  ;)

on Side 2, there is still something to scratch, no, exceptionally no pipes and no pipe supports, but the two Pneumatic vent mufflers in Bay 3 and Bay 4, here once again to the memory in the picture.

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/46/87141461.jpg)
Source: NASA

Since this is only a continuous tube in the paper kit, I've scratch-built it again as well as already the four vent mufflers on Side 4. First I attempted to glue the side brackets from Evergreen strips 0,7x0,2 mm directly onto the paper tube, but that did not glue on, as the adhesive surface is just too low for pasting.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7621/72699441.jpg)

That's why I had to try another option, which I have stuck the side brackets at an I-beam 2,4x1,2 mm, what has glued better.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1359/98974403.jpg)

It then created these filigree mountings. The service pipes are again from 1 mm round profil and the connection clamp was indicated with 0.3 mm lead wire.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8797/23018835.jpg)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9263/56214363.jpg)

And here the vent mufflers are already on their place and have got a second couple holding footbridges.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img443/1972/ventmufflers4.jpg)

These are again only small details, but anyway would be done again.  8)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/04/2013 08:26 PM
After the Pneumatic vent mufflers it's time now for the corner support for the LH2-Pipes at the corner of Side 3 to the Side 4, which looks like different than its counterparts at the previous corners. Fortunately it is built not as complicated as the honeycomb-shaped support on the corner Side 2/Side 1, but at least similar to that on the corner Side 2/Side 3 for the LOX-Pipes.

Here the two parts of the support are relatively easy to see on the MLP-2:

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1963/42220466.jpg)
Source: NASA

Because the two LH2 pipes are relatively far apart at the end Side 4, at this corner there are two separate supports without a common base plate like at the other corner of Side 3. These are nuances, which did not immediately fall one right off the bat. And these supports differ somewhat in the construction by MLP to MLP.  ::)

And this is a lot of the parts you need for both support. And as you can see already, they are very small and therefore the installation will become probably somewhat stressful: (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6/61635008.jpg)

But now you get a certain feeling for parts in the mm range, and already it started again with the bonding of the small bars around the corner angle profile.

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2229/73998819.jpg)

First on Side 2, and then around the corner and up to the Side 4.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/708/26787373.jpg)

And behind the 1st pipe bracket the construction of the bars for the LH2 vent line goes on up to the 2nd bracket. And similarly the upper support of the LH2 transfer line is built, which has only one pipe bracket.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7483/20772466.jpg)

And then both supports were painted yet.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8898/87894010.jpg)

The supports are hardly to see behind the pipes.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up020890.jpg)

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5151/81937797.jpg)

Now missing only the stiffening angle to the upper support, that can be glued only after mounting the transfer line with a segmented pipe bow.

Next follows the installation of the LH2 vent line with its three expansion joints in the same way as on the Side 2.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/06/2013 06:53 PM
And here is the next step today with the installation of the LH2-Vent line on the Side 4, which is the grey and with 2.5 mm something thicker of the two pipes. Since this line also has three Expansion joints in Bay 1, 5, and 13, I must devide it again into sections, as already the LOX-Vent line on Side 2.  ::) And to the left in addition to the expansion joints in the Bay 5 and 13 also two Pipe anchors are sitting for stabilization.

I started at the rear corner of Side 4/Side 3. In this corner, both LH2-pipes have a segmented 60 pipe elbow, which each is sealed with a blind flange, as shown in the following image. At this point, the LH2-pipes of MLP are connected to the supply lines of the LH2-Tank.

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6738/46361345.jpg)
Source: NASA

The 1st section of the Vent line prepared with the 60 pipe elbow extends from the corner until to the expansion joint in Bay 13, in which the 2nd section is attached.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4756/56677261.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img694/6708/vl1l.jpg)

Left the two Pipe anchors are sitting.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5160/35873858.jpg)

Here are the prepared sections of the LH2-Pipes, separating the lower section in front of the left expansion joint, but only after painting.

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4786/16985337.jpg)

Now the sections can be threaded through the pipe supports. Here follows the 2nd section with the expansion joint in Bay 13 already.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2579/32394453.jpg)

The expansion joints were made as the other on Side 2, the flange rings of square Evergreen strip 0,5x0,5 mm, as well as the boot from 7 turns of lead-wire 0,3 mm.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4258/81156536.jpg)

In the Bay 5 the 3rd section with the 2nd expansion joint is attached then tomorrow, and finally in the Bay 1 the last section with the 3rd expansion joint, first everything to the fitting. The sections are painted and then finally glued with each other. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/08/2013 07:20 AM
And here is a next small update. First the blind flange at the end of the segmented arch of the Vent line was glued, consisting of three thin sheet discs (0.3 mm).

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9284/54842939.jpg)

Then this 1st section of the vent line was threaded through the pipe supports and permanently attached, followed by the next two sections up to Bay 1.

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6532/84149936.jpg)

Since the 4th section with the front expansion joint can be moved only after the corner pipe support is installed, the white Transfer line with its segmented arch was prepared at the end.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3572/34868198.jpg)

And here I thought, how I might build the blind flange at the end of the line. This is a kind of double flange, as in this photo was seen already.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8894/83205827.jpg)
Source: NASA

To do this, one could use this small brass rope pulley, I discovered on the ship modeling accessories.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6515/41113455.jpg)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3884/69414513.jpg)

That would fit quite well by the dimensions, let's see how that looks, when the transfer line is painted.  8)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/09/2013 09:49 AM
Hi Guys,

because I finally would like to go around the corner on the Side 1 with the LH2 pipes, yet the last corner pipe support was to scratch. And to do this you need know good detail photos, on which can be seen also. These corners around the MLP are now not so often been photographed, but I have once again found a suitable image in my collection that is well suited as a template:

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8374/87302148.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you can see it, the pipes are to held by double brackets on either side. And now let's go, as a foundation for the brackets of the pipes, an angle from Evergreen strips was pasted in the corner angle.

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2752/46401277.jpg)

Then the lateral dividers for the corner reinforcement and the rear mount rounding were glued still, which are hard to detect at the many white underground. This will be to see more clearly then in the painted state. And so the holder for the Vent line is already done.

The holder for the slightly thinner Transfer line was produced in the same way. And the entire corner support can be seen in the following image.

Thereon the first part of the Vent line-bracket was glued.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5373/78526854.jpg)

For the front bracket I used an I-beam, 1,5x1,2 mm, to which the mounts were glued on both sides.

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4734/15855743.jpg)

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9448/32249457.jpg)

The prepared holder was then glued on the front base plate.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/6938/88059597.jpg)

Then the lateral dividers for the corner reinforcement and the rear mount rounding were glued still, which are hard to detect at the white underground. This will be to see more clearly in the painted state. And so the complete bracket for the Vent line is already done.

The bracket for the slightly thinner Transfer line was produced in the same way. And the entire corner support can be seen in the following image.

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6442/68011581.jpg)

That is now the painted corner support,

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6849/57458361.jpg)

and so both pipes can be moved around the corner to Side 1, for which the next two pipe supports are required there.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/11/2013 09:56 AM
The installaton of the LH2 Pipes around the corner was but not as quickly as I first thought. And just wild on it go to build, as you know is not on my mind. Of course the position of the pipes must match namely Side 1 together with the formation of the two following pipe support, both distance of the MLP wall and height above the Access platform AP 4. And this adjustment you can make difficult without the two supports, especially as these two supports are different from those on the Sides 2 and 4, as you can see on this picture.

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6760/99893325.jpg)
Source: http://www.capcomespace.net

Because the pipes run behind the corner, in contrast to the other two sides not relatively close in front of the MLP wall but at much greater distance from her, they have a special structure with lateral supports and reinforcement angles and are thus somewhat more complicated. Therefore, I had to do once again very accurate detailed studies to detect and understand the construction in order to consider how to build this support at best.

In David Maier's Paper kit they are called Pipe hanger and look:

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8084/78571450.jpg)

On the installation sketch all looks relatively simply and clearly, but provides you only this puzzle alone on the cutting and folding these delicate parts before, let alone when fixing. So no offense Mr. Maier, but not with me!  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

So let's begin, the two basic body are similar like the previous support on the other two sides, so again an I-beam 1,5x1,2 mm, a rectangle profile of 1,5x1,0 mm, as well as Evergreen strips 1,0x0,25 mm, 0,75x0,25 mm and a small U-beam 1,2x0,7 mm as bearing of the Vent line. Here you cn see the beginning of the construction:

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3434/49269389.jpg)

I let always something overlap the struts and cut them according to the binding of Superglue, because that's easier to manage with the tweezers while fixing.

And here is the first basic body.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2500/83919174.jpg)

The second body went smooth as well, in addition you can see the rear outriggers to the MLP wall 5,0x1,0 mm from rectangle profile, coming at the longer support side.

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5928/46808412.jpg)

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/384/71458484.jpg)

And now I must consider well how to continue. Probably, it will be better if I glue the body first of all on the MLP wall and afterwards the reinforcement angles and lateral struts. But now I must just determine the places for the two supports and thereby keep in mind, that the lines are not parallel to Access platform AP 4 but slightly rise to the left up to the Access Platform AP3 with LH2-Valve skid.

I guess this seems to be a tricky matter for tomorrow ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/11/2013 08:38 PM
So somehow I had thought through but not precisely enough the Assembly process, and this has essentially two reasons. With the bonding of the two pipe supports on the MLP wall I had more almost no room for any necessary corrections, which may be but perhaps necessary, because the two LH2 pipes from the corner support increase slightly oblique to the Access platform with the LH2-Valve skid. And then the two supports have these already described, somewhat complicated structure with some lateral reinforcement angles, again located in the millimeter range. And the assembly of this tiny parts above the access platform bulky for handling would have been likely to be very stressful, namely so about 15 items that need to be glued there on both sides of the support body. And to do this you need simply maximum free moving space.  ::) 

Therefore I have considered, to do this delicate work rather separately on the support body, and then to make a fitting on the MLP wall with the provisionally threaded pipes with almost complete supports.

Let's go: The two basic bodys of the pipe supports sit on the already shown rear outriggers between an upper and lower cross bracer on the MLP wall, marked in this picture with arrows. And on these cross bracers, I had then continued the further assembly.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5494/94952563.jpg)
Source: NASA

Because the painted rectangle profiles were anyway not firmly adhered, I took the same again new profiles and prepared the lateral reinforcement angles. These sit on the upper and lower cross bracers(triangular), as well as directly on the MLP wall (trapezoidal shapes). While the triangles on the cross bracers have a constant width, the intermediate trapezia ranging to the vertical reinforcement bar on the wall.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2977/44418886.jpg)

When placing the reinforcement angles one has to consider still more details because both support differ. And one has already to look back and look at photos from different locations.   ::) 

For better comparison, I show the photo with the other position here again, and between these two (and other photos) I am changed often back and forth enough clarity about these differences in detail to identify and understand in the construction.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9978/40732291.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you can see on this picture, the right support on the right has no trapezoidal reinforcement angles, but only on the left side (unfortunately hidden), in contrast to the left support, which has them on both sides. Because I don't want you to unnecessarily confuse or bore, looks simply itself, first with the right support.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/6697/57034384.jpg)

And with applying this tiny parts the puzzle now really begins. Doing my modified approach during the assembly should prove extremely helpful. The cross bars formed a sufficiently solid foundation together with the rectangle profile behind the support basic body. And so I could turn this framework now easily back and forth and install right and left all the other angles.

Here is the view from the right,

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8071/54427279.jpg)

and here from the left.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5619/68460146.jpg)

So but still not enough of the cruel game, at the end all angles got still cover plates from Evergreen strips 0,75x0,25 mm on the leading edge. And then I could ever make a first fitting of the right support on the ground and had to breathe. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/7285/47964826.jpg)

Up here since now around 25 pieces stuck in it.  ::)  Now missing only the lateral oblique support bracers on the left side of the support, which can be glued but only after the final assembly of the support on the wall.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif) 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/13/2013 06:25 AM
Today it went further with the left pipe support, whose basic body was already prepared. I had already explained the different arrangement of the remaining triangular and trapezoidal reinforcement angles, you can now watch in the following images.

Even from the right side

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/827/71037647.jpg)

and here from the left side.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img839/369/beidesupportslinks.jpg)

And now I beaming with joy wanted to make for the first time a fitting at the MLP with two supports and two pipes. But fitting delivered to my horror a nasty surprise, (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) hard to believe, but true.

As I had threaded both pipes through the supports, turned out that the corner pipe support was somehow too far forward. This had to result, that the pipes don't run parallel to the Side 1, but diagonally to the wall. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Holy crap I thought, since I must have measured myself in between probably. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif) What now?

The support stuck down but so that I could not replace him, probably he would have not survived anyway that. Remained only the possibility of cutting him from the front in the curves with the round stick with extreme caution and very much feeling gently to about 2 mm. And maybe that was a hot number, I can tell you, almost like an open heart surgery. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

With the fingertips of the left hand I gently propped up the support, and carefully honed with the right hand, or rather, stroked with the round stick. And I have tried several times, whether it produced already ranges from the length, but quite a few passes were necessary, because I could not put so much pressure.

Man oh man, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) I had real concerns that the support would give up the spirit but at some point. But he has survived this ordeal happily and looked after the surgery:

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9232/43739387.jpg)

And so I could finally make the fitting of the pipes in the supports, and that worked then finally also quite well and I was happy - end good, all good.  ::)

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9551/66584579.jpg)

Then the supports were painted, and so the image rounds out now more and more.

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/470/69835664iik.jpg)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2743/75150733.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1793/92297762.jpg)

And now also the installation of the pipes around the corner can be done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/14/2013 07:04 AM
So, before the LH2-Vent line runs now around the corner, the two supports received each on the left side the lateral oblique support struts (0,75x0,25 mm).

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5858/68531647.jpg)

Then the segmented elbow pipe of the vent line was prepared, which leads to the Side 1.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9984/18719288.jpg)

It should be noted that the vent line dies away immediately in front of the left support approximately to the diameter of the transfer line (see arrow).

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/765/37910949.jpg)
Source: NASA

I have measured the length of the pipe to the left so that it's immediately ranging about to the support on the Access platform AP 3 in front of the LH2-Valve skid. After that will follow bizarre branches of pipes and valves. Therefore I will build first the valve skid outside the access platform, in order to have enough freedom of movement. Then the complete skid is to connect to the two pipes.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9443/79943715.jpg)

And now the LH2-Transfer line on the Side 4 could begin next building. This pipe is thus somewhat more complicated, because it has four welded joints, which are covered with protective casings. These white casings are shown in this picture (see arrows). There are also several double rings on the line.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5041/58674420.jpg)[/url]
Source: NASA

Therefore the line had to be divided into four sections. I started at the rear end, where the pipe is locked with a blind flange for what been using a brass sheave from ship modeling. The 60 elbow pipe also is segmented.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7226/30604800.jpg)

This first segment of the line was then painted.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6308/30674779.jpg)

I have wrapped the protective casings from aluminium foil and painted with white (satin).

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8864/87133028.jpg)

And the rings are made of square profile 0,5x0,5 mm.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5540/61647409.jpg)

And so the first two transfer line segments are completed.

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6989/p10vu.jpg)

The remaining two line segments will follow soon.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/15/2013 06:51 AM
And here are the two remaining segments of the Transfer line already trial pre-installed.

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8513/55442876.jpg)

The connection of the pipe segments had relatively well to do, because the protective casings were ideal joints. :)

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6631/94771810.jpg)

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5369/98324392.jpg)

Now the transfer line must be performed only just around the corner, wherefore made this connection element with segmented elbow pipe.

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1677/25567138.jpg)

And now this part must fit only into the gap.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9705/95957478.jpg)

And it fits, and the fitting looks in any case already quite passable.  :D

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8840/72823949.jpg)

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8209/75598263.jpg)

So, that would be once completed. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Now I'll go back to the Side 2, as yet the LOX-Transfer line is missing, which is produced according to the same pattern. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/16/2013 11:08 AM
Meanwhile it continued with the LOX-Transfer line on Side 2 for first the blind flange came at the end of the line. I.e. the actual blind flange is already done, which is the grey disc with the medium-sized red seal. But still a thicker white disc comes close behind it.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8882/49823998.jpg)

And here is the finished flange with the segmented elbow pipe as first part of the Side 2 transfer line already, which had to be divided into several segments due to the five Welding joints and of the rings distributed along the entire length.

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4395/31741654.jpg)

Because the transfer line with 1.4 mm diameter is relatively thin, I have taken this time insulation tube for the rings. The casings of the welding joints are again wrapped in aluminium foil. And then everything went to the painting.

And this is the finished first segment, which now can be installed at the end of Side 2.

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8905/10275093.jpg)

First the final segment with the blind flange was threaded through the rear support and connected to the 2nd pipe segment in the following welding joint. This segment ranges in the Bay 5, where already the next welding joint will come. In between are still three groups of rings. Behind it, the beginning of the 3rd segment is already to see with the rings.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5999/23670002.jpg)

The connection of 4th segment then follows in the welding joint in the Bay 9, then ranging in the Bay 15.

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8674/80417305.jpg)

Then follows only the last pipe segment - with the segmented elbow pipe - which leads to the Side 1.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9596/74797051.jpg)

And so it has now its particularity. While the Transfer line on Side 2 was previously white, but now its color changes located in the segmented elbow pipe at the corner to Side 1 strangely on grey (why always??), how to see clearly in this picture (see arrow).

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3874/71409100.jpg)
Source: NASA

This must be so, because the NASA engineers will have thought already anything it.

So, and here the first grey segment of the transfer line is preinstalled behind the corner on the left pallet on the Access platform AP 1.

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4875/61498107.jpg)

And so the boredom of endless straight pipes is over now, because it goes now from the left pallet to the right pallet, and so that finally the long prepared LOX-Valve skid again comes into play. And because it goes directly in Bay 7 in front of the LOX-Filter from the horizontal in a vertical after up, so high of course not quite. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Shortly thereafter, it is now really exciting because now the branchings of the pipes on the valve skid are beginning and really have it in themselves. Let's see what still can be built. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/9336/12490505.jpg)

And so slowly but surely, Side 1 begins to fill ...

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2225/p10qk.jpg)

As far as for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 01/16/2013 01:56 PM
Wouldn't making the curved pips also work by using parts from a model kit's parts tree? In building my 1/350 scale Titanic model I found the parts tree skeleton also works for details like curved pipes. I also used it for the SILTS pod on my 1/72 scale Columbia stack.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/16/2013 02:43 PM
That's right, you can use the trees well, if they have the appropriate diameter. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)  But this is suitable only for the round bows. For segmented elbow pipes they will not help and you must scratch-build the bows. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/17/2013 08:16 AM
It's time for the next update.

And so back to continue the LOX-Transfer line on the left Equipment pallet on the Access platform AP 1, I had indeed already on a trial basis adapted to the length. As well as already declared and was to see, the color of the transfer line around the corner to the Side 1 changes from white to grey.

This pipe segment has some details that you can see on my standard photo shown already several times by the left pallet.

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3628/73061733.jpg)
Source: Capcomespace.net

There are three groups of three rings, two smaller cylinders (possibly filter), one is vertically standing (1) and the other horizontally to rear (2), and in the middle are a pipe coupling (3) with a delicate small valve on the top. And these things I've tried me first.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5771/42413847.jpg)

The white rings left in the image are again from square profile (0,5x0,5 mm) bent. The right cylinder with the four rings of lead wire ( 0,3 mm) is this pipe coupling. For the valve attachment, I had originally intended the red part in, by the way comes from an interdental brush. But as you can see already, this part of the proportions is produced but much too big for the coupling when looking at this picture to do so (see lower left corner).

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1033/17711166.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

That is why I have made the small valve attachment itself, the two lateral elements are made of round profile ( 1.0 mm), the upper small part is only about 1,0x1,0 mm, so it should probably be arrived on the border of what is possible in this scale. The left white part is one of the two small filters ( 2,0 mm).

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7083/84744460.jpg)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5545/69725125.jpg)

But somehow the proportions of the lateral elements on the valve attachment were always incorrect, which would have to be thin, which I then changed, left by a small nail ( 0.7 mm) and right by a pin ( 0.6 mm), which then looked better.

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4061/42143677.jpg)

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1585/87435541.jpg)

And this is the fitting on the pallet with the customized segmented elbow pipe.

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3439/77900522.jpg)

Here are some pictures for the overall impression:

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/289/79344271.jpg)

This is not everything but still long, because this main pipe of the transfer line has still a parallel side extrusion,
that branches off backwards, as you immediately can see on my 3rd image in front of the MLP wall.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/456/p10yo.jpg)

And this side extrusion has still some small details that also has to be scratch built next time. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/18/2013 10:30 PM
First of all the small supporting side extrusion at the beginning of the transfer line from the next to last picture has to wait because it can only be welded after the final assembly of the first line segment on the left pallet. To do this it must be threaded namely from behind under the Vent line through. And therefore this must still wait a while. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) 

My short break was necessary, because in the meantime, I had to brood over the LOX-Valve skid on the right pallet. Since I must convert unfortunately my first prototype something, after I have noticed some inconsistencies in recent photographs, regarding the wiring of the pipes, which is somewhat complicated. And also some supports shall be completed, I had been so still not recognized. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

That is a pretty difficult business with the transition from the left to the right pallet and then to the LH2-Valve skid on the medium access platform, because since the alignment as well as the height of the lines must be in agreement. And that's why you can build not so away if not everything in paroxysm will degenerate but should fit together. Therefore, it is also appropriate for the time being not to glue the individual line segments, in order to always again control and make any changes or corrections, what but rather keeps. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

So, the LOX-Valve skid was rebuilt only again. It had to be laid initially somewhat lower, so that the transfer line has still some air. Then had to change some supports and some new were added, as shown in the next pictures.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/9366/88264142.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img213/4936/81635856.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/5232/98661721.jpg)

After a first fitting with the transfer line segment could be made.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img685/9593/91471706.jpg)

And it looks already quite passable. Nevertheless the segment cannot be glued yet, because I'm not yet done on the right pallet.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img213/6268/79416174.jpg)

At the end of the line to the elbow pipe it goes then up to the junction in the direction of the LOX-Filter.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/5188/45616644.jpg)

Up to this point also the Vent line must be extended to the right which branches off from the blind flange and runs directly over the Transfer line. And that was tried out then equal times,

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7513/43257764.jpg)

and also looks good.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img145/1103/96769107.jpg)

The line is still capped then at the place of the elbow pipe. And then it gets really cruel, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  as shown in this picture.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img689/8586/69154303.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

From left here comes the Transfer line (below) and above the Vent line. Right in the picture then the Vent line joins in the Transfer line and then's goes above and in the elbow pipe backwards to the MLP wall and from there right to the LOX-Filter. And in between there are some fittings, expansion joints and valves, etc. ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

That should be enough for today, because at this sight already I'm worried to death and singing with the BEATLES: HELP, I NEED SOMEBODY ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/19/2013 11:04 PM
And after the frightening sight of the small pipes and valves in the last pic I think to myself, don't worry be happy seems to be the better way out.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Therefore it preceded a bit again on the right pallet, which further overhauled and completed, which should be so easy to see.

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2056/59282009.jpg)

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3739/67006271.jpg)

Thus, the right pallet is now complete. The ring of LOX-Filter of that is caused by back and was already a bit too thick, was renewed by one made of 0.3 mm lead wire. Then, the complete pallet together with three lines was painted for the further pipe laying on the pallet and additionally requires the diameters 1.6 mm, 1.2 mm and 0.7 mm.

(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6329/68464720.jpg)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3439/61766166.jpg)

Now the pallet definitively can be attached on the platform and begun with the laying of the cute branches. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)
Above of Transfer line's butt follows the segmented transition to connect the Vent line and then the branch before the MLP wall and then right to the LOX-Filter.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1313/18571891.jpg)

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/5563/78811585.jpg)

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2870/60642256.jpg)

Right next to the LOX-filter three pipes with different diameters run then directly from the MLP wall on the Access platform AP 3 (behind the LH2-Valve skid) to Bay 13, from where they then run upward into the LOX-Tunnel, which leads to the right TSM, as shown here in the next pic.

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9886/25262923.jpg)
Source: NASA

Don't bother you that the LOX-Filter on the pic looks differently than mine, but this is a photo of the MLP-3, where this other type of filter was used.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/20/2013 11:08 PM
After the overhaul of LOX-Valve skid was finally completed, I've can stick finally there on the access platform. Thus, it could now further go with the continuation of the transfer line with the segmented elbow pipe behind the stub. And because the branch of pipes is quite expensive and requires various items it took longer this time.

Since the production of small elbow pipe is something difficult, I've glued first always longer parts and cut them after the bonding of adhesive. And if you have bad luck, the stubs can cancel again, and then everything is starting again ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5934/74303447.jpg)

Here you can see some of these parts needed for the further construction of the lines. Left of the cent coin is the Transfer line sent with the finished elbow pipe, which left leads up to the end of the line next to the LOX-Filter, in between the junction of the Vent line is located. In the gap between the parts, the LOX-Filter sits then. Right is the continuation of transfer line, which then leads to the LOX-Tunnel,

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5885/48122931.jpg)

again with two segmented elbow pipes.  ::)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2595/52963041.jpg)

The prepared pipe segments with some small details are now.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3558/23440451.jpg)

Originally I wanted to build the lines on the platform piece by piece from the front to the MLP wall, but that would be probably become quite complicated so I had to change this arrangements. I think that it is more appropriate to move the transfer line in front of the MLP wall to the LOX tunnel and then being able to align all other lines.

And so the LOX tunnel had to be taken closer under the magnifying glass, on the last photo of previous post one can detect it just yet so under the blast shields. A special locking mechanism is located above the tunnel with two Pipe guides, which fix the two thicker horizontal lines upwards.

And so roughly, the part should look in principle:

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/10/45972093.jpg)

To adjust the direction and to the fitting of the device the MLP were placed on the back wall.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7577/85661429.jpg)

In between something was painted then also once again.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1273/32487184.jpg)

To hold of the pipes on the MLP wall, there are a whole series of similar pipe guides, now displaced. They partly sit on horizontal reinforcement struts, which were installed in addition, since they are absent in the paper kit.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7223/72187021.jpg)

Next, the segment left of the LOX filter and the line leading to the LOX tunnel could be glued now, and Thank God both parts sit very well. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2943/75937389.jpg)

So long.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/22/2013 07:32 AM
And here some photos for continuation.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2184/24430805.jpg)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4949/82637692.jpg)

And now, the initial segment of the transfer line to the left corner of the Side 1 could be mounted finally also.

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2913/24615955.jpg)

And now also the corner connection of the transfer line is finally fixed and stable! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1962/12716390.jpg)

Wow, that was a quite piece of work as a whole, and I am happy that everything worked very well so far. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/23/2013 12:29 PM
And amidst the joy of my beautiful work, I received a message from DaveS with a bad news that has shocked me pretty.  :o  He pointed me out, that the LOX/LH2 pipes at the STS-6 mission looked metallic shiny and were not painted white and grey. And that's right, as you can also clearly see that on this photo.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/435/70158798.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

While the fuel pipes of three MLP's starting around the mid-90's were painted in the well-known colours - Vent lines grey, Transfer lines white - the pipes at the beginning of the shuttle missions were apparently metallic shiny and looked almost the same.  ::)

Now I have to decide, what I'm doing with my pipes, very difficult. And so I'm now real considering whether I again around to paint the pipes? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

That would be certainly not impossible, but somewhat more difficult, completely apart from the effort. >:( I am but not sure whether I would get the pipes with the brush so clean after painted, or whether I would ruin more me thus. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)   

As test I have here brushed on-the-fly two metallic shades to sample on a white and gray line, which is right the Silver metallic from Revell Aqua color (36/90), and left about the Aluminum metallic (36/99), which differ but not much.

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7487/87188843.jpg)

It might also be a compromise, so to let the grey Vent lines and "Silver" only the white Transfer lines, as here you can see a sample.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3858/18949751.jpg)

Now I wonder what comments you probably. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 01/23/2013 01:01 PM
You can fix that. Get some Q tips or toothpicks for tiny spots the brush can't reach.

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/23/2013 05:54 PM
The white Transfer lines I'm going on every case silver coloring, because white painted pipes there were not at that time at STS-6 apparently really, so much is sure. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) 

Then I'll see what it looks like together with the grey pipes. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/24/2013 07:30 AM
Hello Guys,

fresh dared is half won, here is my first painting of the Transfer line on the Side 2 with the silver color, which is quite okay for the first time, I would say. 

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8652/97393176.jpg)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1002/96578119.jpg)

I had to hurry up with the smooth painting between the pipe supports, but it was actually quite good, better than I first thought. I'll rework then still the places with a second coat of paint, where it has not immediately fully covered.   

Once arrived at the corner to the Side 1 I did next then equal up to the LOX-Tunnel.

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/811/14685045.jpg)

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8808/64174914.jpg)

I am all in all so far pleased with the result, the silver looks quite good and highlights even more the details. That is why I am still considering, whether I even silver the Vent line too. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

What do you mean?  ???

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 01/24/2013 01:56 PM
Hmm, this gave me an idea. Making black and white copies of the parts of the paper model at Kinkos. Use the copies to get the size of the pipes right ,the smaller ones. It helps also when looking for the structural columns covering the sides of the MLP. :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/24/2013 04:02 PM
So, and here is now the silver painted Transfer line of the Side 4

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4420/15104151.jpg)

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2523/67646453.jpg)

I think I'll paint the Vent lines probably also still silver, then this gives a more actual overall picture. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/25/2013 07:08 AM
In addition to the pipes to painting continued with the second, thinner pipe from the LOX-Valve skid to the LOX tunnel. I had bent it of 1.0 mm round profile and placed several bellows, which are wrapped in coils of 0.3 mm lead wire.

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2141/84422644.jpg)

The longer right part of the pipe runs directly in front of the MLP wall and then top enters the LOX tunnel. The left part runs obliquely forward on the valve skid and then meets the branch of the vent line, located here underneath.

Because the upper pipe must be threaded under the transfer line elbow pipe, which leads in the LOX filter, I have separated the line in the middle at the local pipe guide, otherwise pipe laying would become too complicated, especially since on the left-hand side after the double elbow pipe anyway a few small details to install.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Again to clarify that what's now is about:

The branch of the vent line shown above is the middle piece of line running from 1 to 2. And on this line this nice small armature sits, that could be possibly a type of flow meter or controller, that I tried to scratch-build. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6484/14195416.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight )

But see better the next photos, without much words:

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9216/99224420.jpg)

(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5703/87369057.jpg)

And so the part looks now with me after the assembly, almost adventurous, or? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/9750/84689688.jpg)

And here finally silver painted:

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1103/31546600.jpg)

So, and as a conclusion for today here is the right section of the initially shown thinner pipe, which leads to the LOX tunnel, after painting and assembly:

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2959/37234548.jpg)

So, that was something out of the often strained rubric: Many a mickle makes a muckle ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I hope you understand the German byword. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 01/25/2013 04:02 PM
Here is a nice reference for you. :) http://troymcclellanphotos.smugmug.com/SpaceShuttle/Launch-Pad-39A-Reference/27615503_njrpH5#!i=2325568951&k=tm82qKB
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/25/2013 06:43 PM
Thanks for the link,  ;) I know Troy McLelland's great Shuttle and Pad Galleries, really amazing photos.  8)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/26/2013 06:59 AM
Initially, here is a supplement of the silver painting of the pipes with some images of the three sides of the MLP.

Now I have painted the originally white Transfer lines with Revell-silver. The Vent lines I wanted to vary something color and mixed to therefore a few drops of Revell-grey and Revell-iron into Revell-silver. The shade of color differs only marginally from the pure silver, what I have now so left.

Here is the Side 1, in which the upper vent line has received now the junction just before the blind flange, which then flows into the transfer line:

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5627/73011946.jpg)

And here is Side 2,

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1903/60048339.jpg)

and here Side 4:

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1627/41244765.jpg)

So far, so good, but what part of it else to the fuel pipes, to fuel the stack correctly, and above all safely?

Clearly, of course, Valves and Sensors, and some of which I at least wanted to indicate. Granted, for a long time I was considering whether I myself should dare approach also on these details, and even longer about repercussions, how I could scratch-build it.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Here is the following, already known image of the Side 1, on which I have marked some of these details:

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4323/70117122.jpg)
Source: http://www.capcomespace.net

There are for example four Relief valves, of which three (green arrows 1, 2, 3) are visible. The fourth, sits left next to the transition to the LOX-filter. Valve No. 4 is a Control valve with a small hand wheel. No. 5 and 6 are Temperature and Pressure sensors, which occur even in some other places of the valve skids.

Looking for appropriate solutions for the construction of these fittings I have found something in the store for ship modeling, there are namely small rail supports made of brass, which I can use very well for these valves, as can be seen in the next picture.

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6015/42010833.jpg)

And a finished valve of No. 2 looks like this,

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5607/37499646.jpg)

and here to the fitting on the left equipment pallet at the MLP:

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/940/84010929.jpg)

On the next image, the beginning of the valve No. 1 is right to see,

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1274/35178467.jpg)

and so it went on ...

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3052/13066948.jpg)

To the left that should become the control valve with the small hand wheel No. 4, and here is the result:

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6991/p10f.jpg)

So enough for today, tomorrow is still a day. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/lach.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/27/2013 06:28 AM
Hi all together,

I was just again looking the last orders in the paint shop, and the guys did in fact busily, and now the next pipes and armatures are also done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6022/98007820.jpg)

Unfortunately I must paint everything individually and outside of MLP that, and thats always something awkward and also quite stressful, but unfortunately no change can be.   But now I can finally also building everything, therefore let's see action. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Since it is now but quickly cluttered with every other line on the LOX valve skid, I have here two images for a better overview, to better track the line run and assembly order, if someone wants to recreate it.

I had installed the right half of the thinner pipe running above the LOX-Fill/Drain Line, coming already from the LOX tunnel. Now comes the continuation of this line, which runs via the LOX valve skid across. This is the green marked line, running at the LOX filter past,

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/806/52459776.jpg)
Source: NASA

and finally diagonally enters in the branch of the Vent line.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1385/20365730.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

The difficulty this work is on the one hand, to ensure the fit of each section or to dominate the customize. Here on the original photos all look still pretty handy, but it is in the 1:160-reality unfortunately no longer. And on the other hand the place on the skid becomes closer with every other part and work this is always trickier. And with the thinner pipes are inevitably the fittings, valves and expansion joints etc., always filigree ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

In addition to this "green" thinner pipe, there is yet a further, even thinner, red marked pipe on which I ever point to, because that will be still attached. The blue arrows indicate additional fittings/valves.

But first, here is a picture of the extension of the "green" pipe.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up027024.jpg)

In front of the lower part of this extension, now a by-pass line was assembled, which is difficult to see in the first photo since it is unfortunately obscured by the "red" pipe. But in the HiRes resolution of the panorama pic (click) can be seen at exact look, provided, you know it.  ::)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3227/98482892.jpg)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8267/92215995.jpg)

As shown on the pictures, here now even some of the small relief valves and control valves are mounted.

A more by-pass line is there on the Transfer line of the left equipment pallet, which I had prepared some time ago, but for place reasons still not could install.

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/227/27005301.jpg)

This by-pass line could now, under the vent line through, connected with the transfer line, what turned out as extremely difficult, because there almost is no more space for fiddling. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7706/41262411.jpg)

And here are some more pictures which show that the place on the LOX-valve skid is now running out.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5393/93800518.jpg)

However, on the Access platform AP 3 is still plenty of place for the LH2-Valve skid.

(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5339/p10rj.jpg)

Tomorrow, then still the thin "red" line will be installed from the LOX tunnel to the LOX-valve skid, and even this line has a few valves ...  and then I can complain to the LH2-valve skid. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/28/2013 10:07 PM
Finally, now is the thinnest and thus last of three pipes (0.5 mm brass-wire) on the line, and this pipe is not silver shiny, but grey. Since the pipe next to the LOX-Filter runs under the thick LOX-fill/drain line through, I had to subdivide it again into two parts.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3172/67131076.jpg)

Here I tried the tiny temperature and pressure sensors that are made of 0.3 mm steel wire, in a 0.7 mm brass tube.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9536/17697679.jpg)

Then the two parts of the line were installed one at a time, their junction is on the first pipe guide before the elbow pipe down.

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6571/21165981.jpg)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1295/38018987.jpg)

And also this line has two valves, located here in the front between the two pipe supports.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5762/51819454.jpg)

On the next two pics, the sensors are quite clearly visible right next to the LOX-Filter.

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4522/92523050.jpg)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8205/55587958.jpg)

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/397/56516040.jpg)

Thank God, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif) thus the LOX-Valve skid is finally complete now, and therefore I will approve today evening once a beer (or two) me.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/271.gif)
And tomorrow I'll go to the LH2-Valve skid on the right Access platform, what is at least as equally stressful ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/29/2013 09:03 PM
After the LOX-Valve Skid is finally finished, a look back at the paper kit variant I jokingly built approximately half a year ago at this point once again.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3606/56042138.jpg)

When I look again that, I must say that the effort definitely has paid off. I am at least happy that I so got out that, what I previously not guaranteed I would be dreaming. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

David Maier is kept benefit, that these details cannot be built of paper even at this scale, but as much only with shadowy textures, if also rather sent, can be interpreted. And seen from afar, the strikes also do not so much.

And thus I would like to complain now to the LH2-Valve Skid on the Access Platform AP3, which represents a similar if not greater challenge. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

Here advance a few photos that will demonstrate what it is now. First, there is the already well-known NASA panoramic photo to click in. This is the penultimate Antlantis mission STS-132 , but shows a MLP-2, which I build. And the technical equipment of the three MLP's was but almost the same except on detail differences. Since you can scroll nicely left and right and get good insight into the structure of the valve skid with various armatures and fittings.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9277/39740485.jpg)
Source: NASA

I am also in the fortunate position to have got some nice detailed close-up shots from a guy directly from the pad, which show some of the details still accurate here even from left,

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8349/97996390.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

and here from right:

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4104/50997142.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

To do this it should be noted that these photos of the last mission of Atlantis STS-135 come, was at the MLP-3 in use. And since as said, there are already small detail differences from the MLP-2, which are but not so serious, so that you can be inspired scratching well then. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

And here are the paper kit templates for the LH2 skid again AP3 A-H , which I do not want to deprive you, although I will not use it, like already in the LOX valve skid.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8019/73068383.jpg)

And the construction of the skid should be thus:

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5744/19316027.jpg)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6677/52457322.jpg)

This looks everything on the installation sketches again quite straightforward and easy, but it is terrible matter, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  I really would not like to give me.

Therefore again on plastic profiles back used, of which one but needs a whole lot of different diameters, and this ranges from approx. 0.8 mm to 3.5 mm.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6215/58885983.jpg)

The construction of the skid starts again on a pallet for which I've used 1.2 mmx0,75 mm U-profile.

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3500/37299476.jpg)

And so looks the pallet that is already on its way to the paint shop.

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4408/p10hq.jpg)

From tomorrow to proceed then with the pipes and supports, etc., what I already own wonder... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/31/2013 06:52 AM
So quickly it is not continued yet. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

As already in the LOX-Valve skid, so all beginnings are difficult also on the LH2-Valve skid. Before it can really start with the scratching, first of all again the determination of the dimensions of the pipe segments and fittings is the most work, and that is a pretty frustrating business until it is done completely. And that takes everything so much time and keeps on getting far too long ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

This initially even an error was undermined me, because I had made the conversion and scaling of the dimensions from the photos of a wrong reference. It was in this case the diameter of the vent line with 2.5 mm. But the line reduces before the second pipe support already to 2.0 mm, what I initially not had considered, until I noticed it then. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif) 

And I have now extended this vent line behind the corner until the end of valve skid. Up there it reduces twice further to 1.4 mm or 0.8 mm at the end.

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4724/98621485.jpg)

The first fitting of the extended line fits so far already quite good, including three pipe guides carry that line. In front to that, the skid pallet will be then. And these two things were then brought in the paint shop.

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4161/16557593.jpg)

The pallet is closed to bottom out by a metal shelf.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7194/51900438.jpg)

And here is the rear pipe guide to see under the penultimate rejuvenation comes, must be painted only still grey.

(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4691/93043880.jpg)

Somehow, the silver painting of the line this time looks not so great, but kinda spotty. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  Something seems not to agree with the airbrush, or color, because I need to paint well or badly once more.

Because an expension joint is located on the rear end of the vent line, the line was capped with the first pipe guide left from the LOX-Tunnel.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6641/82335126.jpg)

The small pipe guide at the end of the pipe is already mounted. Then I tried out my new color decals for the yellow markings of the vent line and cut a corresponding decal strip. The MLP-2 at the STS-6 had several of these markings, including even on the Sides 2 and 4. But I had to use a decal softener, in order to put the somewhat bulky decal nice around the pipe.  ::)   

Now, the line could be mounted permanently, and then the two pipe guides before the expansion joint and a flange cover behind it.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6195/61841875.jpg)

And that is likely to be the final place for the pallet here.

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7541/78588920.jpg)

Now it continues with the Transfer line. It branches at the beginning of the access platform obliquely forward off, and shortly afterwards the same again and then again parallel runs to the vent line. At these branching points strong support devices are located, which now were built.

I started initially with the guide for the second branch of the pipe, because according to his level, establishing the skid pipes focuses on the pallet, and this must everything aligned and fit together.

Here the prepared pipe guide made from 2.5 mm H-beam is provisionally set up for position and height test,

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1039/43259640.jpg)

and here the pipe segment after the branch is set up to the fitting.

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7813/76114604.jpg)

Because the first branch is relatively far from the MLP wall, the pipe is supported there by a robust pipe anchor, which sits directly on the reinforcement brace of the wall and is shown in the next picture. I have also used H-beam 2.5 mm.

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3221/p10ne.jpg)

With this segment, it continues then next time.

These are only small steps, but also getting to the destination. The matter is simply too complex or to filigree how to take it ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/01/2013 06:28 AM
The measurement and scaling holds but longer me on, than I thought, but this was with the LOX valve skid I think similarly. However it returned a few small steps forward on the rocky road ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

Here, the pipe anchor for the first branch of the transfer line is now on the reinforcing bracer on the wall.

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9985/89829668.jpg)

And exactly at this point the prepared transfer line for the branch was separated now slanted forward mitred.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1904/71393907.jpg)

Now I have mounted the skid pallet and the pipe guide for the 2nd branch and the branch piece associated with the transfer line. Because it is easier for the fittings, if that can be done directly on the separate line is connected but still not with the pipe on the corner. Furthermore, as more details are how the two rings and the small cylinder better to attach. And the paint must anyway still are.  ::)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/340/90840127.jpg)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8586/34144465.jpg)

Behind the 2nd branch the extension of middle pipe follows that but again ends behind the sleeve I've wrapped in aluminium foil, because there follows a T-piece (1.8 mm).

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5986/41237622.jpg)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1910/79202314.jpg)

From this, the two lateral line strands go off then run again before the LH2 filter in the middle strand, which is again seen in the original.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6143/14743081.jpg)
Source: NASA

The difficult is that these three strands from each other have very small distances (approx. 1 to 2 mm), which rather complicates the cutting of the segmented elbow-pipes and the assembly. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

In the next picture, you can see the T-piece behind it comes only with a pipe diameter of 1.6 mm next.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9639/58277636.jpg)

Left of the middle part of the segmented elbow-pipe follows now actually, which measures only 1.6 mm, which can be kept hardly with tweezers. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5145/22715065.jpg)

Maybe I must omit this small pieces but also, and instead apply the sheet with a 45 miter.

But we see that then tomorrow.  ::)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/02/2013 07:08 AM
Hi all together,

here is a sketch of the wiring, which is to show the proportions in 1:160 and shows what is available now. On this LH2 valve skid everything is much closer together in a confined space as on the LOX valve skid, making more difficult the work something.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

The green circle should be the LH2-Filter, the tilted block main valves are red.

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5681/59493623s.jpg)

It looks all pretty small, but I want to try it anyway to scratch-build. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

Therefore I did continue with the LH2-Filter, can be seen as a rear/left reference point on the pallet, which is about 16.3 mm long, or short, how you want.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/465/46681211.jpg)

The main body is a plastic round profile (diameter 2.4 mm), which side sits between two H-beams (1,5x1,5 mm). The middle strand of the transfer line must match this filter, if everything fits together properly.

And already a small error had crept in. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)  Since the LH2 filter non-flush sits on the pallet frame, I had to first extend the lateral brackets from H-beam, which had fallen slightly short.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2531/86142732.jpg)

And here the filter should be on the pallet.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1173/35884760.jpg)

t first I had connected the filter with the extension of the transfer line, what has proved for the further construction of the skid lines but inconvenient.

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1828/13719655.jpg)

To better connect the parallel bypasses, it is skillful for customizing and bonding, if these short pieces, in particular for the segmented elbow pipes, lie flat on the plane. Here are the first items for it.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7518/59010459.jpg)

Here is is the rear, thicker bypass. Thereon already the sleeves (aluminum foil) are glued, on which the two central block valves will be sitting.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8159/67025994.jpg)

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3396/91661375.jpg)

And looks like the first provisional fitting on the pallet.

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2191/96167670.jpg)

As you can easily see the filter sits still slightly too far to the left, so I have to cut there probably still somewhere a little on the length, I just still don't know exactly where the best and need a good idea. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/03/2013 06:40 AM
And therefore it continued today with the miniatures on the LH2-Valve Skid , if it is again only small steps. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

To the overview here again the valve skid with its details. As you can see, there are on each string sections with different diameters, which must keep something, as you search for profiles with suitable diameters during the construction. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif) 

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/127/39182549.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

Now, the front thin bypass (0.6 mm) was prepared with three small sleeves, for which I have used a suitable grass (1.3 mm), because I had nothing better. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3381/26119159.jpg)

This becomes the connector that connects the front bypass to the middle strand.

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5796/34354021.jpg)

From here it continues to the left with this gradual increase in (1.2 mm). The blue piece right next to it is an acupuncture needle (0.2 mm, my wife brought it for me from the doctor), (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  which is ideal for dabbing on the Superglue on these thin parts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1439/95600673.jpg)

A smaller block valve, its bushing is wrapped aluminum foil sits on the left rise next to the LH2-Filter.
It continues with the preparation of the parts for the two central block valves, which are composed of several parts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6281/57342989.jpg)

First, there are the lower sloping extensions (2.2 mm) that sit on the two bypass tubes.

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9654/13509986.jpg)

For the subsequent valve body I used for the first part 1x1 mm square profile and 1 mm rod for completion. Everything else will then be seen from the building.

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8351/92478352.jpg)

Here is the conglomeration of existing items.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2512/87124899.jpg)

Here is a finished valve body, which looks like a small telescope. But I think it should be slightly thicker???

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1997/52099878.jpg)

As far as for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/04/2013 07:27 AM
After careful consideration I have delt again with the Block valves, because my first prototype has still not completely convinced me. Somehow the proportions agreed not really, and something leaves me then no rest, also if it is only such a pipsqueak. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

Here is a nice detail photo of the LH2 skid therefore again.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4779/34353188.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

How can it be seen, there are in addition to the two big block valves (right) even two more smaller block valves on the front bypass (left) and behind the corner, by the way both different sizes.

Depending on what perspective you can see these valves, the form in particular of the lower part appears more or less compact. If you look but more accurately, it recognizes that there is no full profile, but two mounting bracers. But these bracers in the scale 1: 160 to scratch build is simply hopeless, since it would have to be 'strong' less than 1 mm, and with a length of approx. 4 mm! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

As a result is a 1 x 1 mm square profile already suitable as a first approximation.

But the visually dominant right cylindrical portion should be somewhat stronger than in my first prototype where I have used a round profile 1.0 mm. So I used this time 1.4 mm, what comes better out and looks visually complaisant.

For the intermediate rings this time I have used shrink hose 2.3 mm, which I've shrunk on a brass bar on 1.4 mm. And at this diameter may even the four thin clamping bracers should be feasible, that connect the bottom part with the cylindrical upper part. I have that in any case tried and used copper wire 0.2 mm. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And so the result looks now:

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6570/48938299.jpg)

Okay, you must know that the bracers are really, because this is unfortunately difficult to see on this picture. So here is another picture from the preparation of the second valve on which you can better recognize the bracers and see also the small pieces needed.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9600/56016658.jpg)

Now I have connected the individual assemblies permanently, to give me something to facilitate further adaptation of pipe lengths on the skid, i.e. the Transfer line is a continuous piece now ranges from the right corner to the LH2-Filter.

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2990/14004785.jpg)

Now, the LH2-filter is attached, allowing the height of the line is fixed, so that now the rear block valve could be mounted, which was not so easy. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif) 

When the Superglue bonding of the valve body on the aluminum foil sleeve must be same the first attempt succeed and if possible, even the seat should be exactly. There remains only little time for any corrections of the angular position or the alignment in the longitudinal direction. That worked but just very well luckily the first valve right off the bat. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7811/31019788.jpg)

And here is a fitting on the skid, which looks as far as quite well. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  And therefore continue with the second valve.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7399/71140668.jpg)

Because both valves relatively close to each other sit (approx. 1 mm), the seat of the base had to be adapted slightly. But now the pair of valves done completely and thus a delicate assembly group, what I had initially associated with respect. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/17/19584224.jpg)

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2803/87929584.jpg)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2881/p10zi.jpg)

And now to the smaller block valve upstream of the LH2-Filter, or first to the line on which it sits.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3793/p11r.jpg)

The valve is a number unfortunately smaller than the other two, which makes everything more difficult. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)  The valve is located on the rear half of the bypass, which has a diameter of 1.2 mm and with a segmented elbow pipe around the corner. Shortly thereafter, a fourth block valve (!!!), which rises diagonally backwards towards the wall sits directly behind the LH2-Filter.

The bypass runs then again around a corner and then to the right and meets the end of the already installed Vent line, so the circuit would be closed again in height of the filter from the top.
This here is a first fitting of the two parts of the bypass, which shows how close it is to. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/415/p12s.jpg)

Perhaps, you can see based on the pictures, why it goes currently only slowly forward ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: brad2007a on 02/04/2013 10:18 AM
Damn...I wish I had one ONE THOUSANDTH your patience and skill...  :)

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/04/2013 10:48 AM
Thanks Brad for your nice words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)
A lot of patience you must already have and also a good sense of proportion. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) And No pain, no gain, only practice makes perfect. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/05/2013 08:13 AM
And here is a small update from the LH2 Valve Skid.

With the fitting is all well and good, but it is better, if the long piece of transfer line now finally can be glued. Then I can connect better the small parts of the front bypass. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) 

Now the part had to be painted and so that looks like.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3691/90181073.jpg)

And so it can be installed now also finally on the valve skid.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5945/39330394.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9985/70573672.jpg)

Oh well, so slow even the right side of Side 1 fills up. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

And it went a bit again on the Valve skid. Nevertheless, is not much to see, because the bypass is so small. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/432/14447437.jpg)

On the one I started with the preparation of the front small block valve, which on the front aluminum sleeve will sit. Unfortunately this is now but still a number smaller than the first two valves. The base left has 1.4 mm diameter, the prismatic part is a square profile 0,7x0,7 mm, and the front part is a round profile with 1 mm diameter. Maybe I can do it, accommodate to even the four clamping struts from 0,1 mm copper wire, let's see. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

On the other hand, the bypass must turn rear right and needs a segmented elbow pipe again, and this is a really tricky matter, i.e. again a longer piece glue, and then again on the small stub of a miter cut without it again to cancel it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  And thus a fitting is also once again.

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/7337/45110365.jpg)

Then the length must be marked up to below the next bow after on the vent line. And this is of course a segmented elbow pipe. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2886/33978685.jpg)

And behind the bow now only has to determine the correct length down, as helps to aim roughly, filing away a little bit, and then again try, and so some times, until it fits then. You can unfortunately no longer measure the distance, this is all much too narrow and too bulky. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1262/33007485.jpg)

Now, but as far as finishes the bypass and now has five elbows. And that I will try now still to smooth something very carefully with the sanding stick.

The valve body is now also done in the shell, must be cut to length, so that then can get the rings on it, and then possibly the thin bracers, if it works out. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/06/2013 06:32 AM
Now I can show you the front small block valve, and it worked really with the thin tension bolts, although it was quite tricky. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1207/48594604.jpg)

And as you can see on the adjacent small bypass, I have again removed the aluminum sleeves since they as a whole but not really said to me and himself had also eased. I've wrapped the new sleeves with tape strips from Tamiya, which I liked better.

Since the bypass is resting on three small struts, I had to get somehow their length, and went back only by means of a further fitting. And you can believe me, also has again been an ordeal, took nerves before the position was fixed, finally to get off the measurements. This is wrong that so few times. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4508/68135469.jpg)

These are the first two struts sitting on the pallet frame. The third will sit at the place where now lies the small stack of Balsa.

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3498/60517078.jpg)

And reminder here again the situation on the ground on the left side of the skids in the original image.

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8266/17397362.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight)

So now the awkward painting action of small parts comes again before the assembly.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9190/20439195.jpg)

The next pictures show now finally laid bypass parts on the support braces, and I can only again breathe deeply. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3279/54625412.jpg)

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6081/78821696.jpg)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8373/43491847.jpg)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2150/70743008.jpg)

As seen on the original image a Pressure Gauge Panel is located on the left side of the skid for the pressure display, as well as calibration ports and Shut-off Valves, which cannot be missed of course. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)  I cut out this Panel out of the Black Box of the LH2-Valve skid from the paper kit, to use part of it also once again. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/115/p10o.jpg)

The continuation follows soon. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/07/2013 06:44 AM
And here is the small panel.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9759/78456477.jpg)

And here at this point it sits now on the pallet frame under the now also assembled small block valve. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8837/66170251.jpg)

And thus once again a slightly bigger step is done, and now is already land in sight. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4743/32707554.jpg)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6481/69721930.jpg)

Now it will continue probably with the fourth block valve, left, sitting directly behind the LH2-Filter. And then also some small pipes and fittings are around, I would like to try at least sometimes. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/08/2013 05:54 AM
I have not done now but continue with the 4th block valve, but with the small bypass next to the 3rd block valve, which run upwards and then turn left. Again, this is a fairly small and delicate part, why I used brass tube 0.9 mm and wire 0.5 mm. Fortunately I've found a thin cable insulation (0.6 mm) I can use. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/3672/45403147.jpg)

This bypass passes under the Transfer line that comes from the LH2 filter, and flows back into the end of the Vent line. Left in the picture lie already the parts for the output of the transfer line behind the filter, these are again segmented elbow pipes.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5358/53808515.jpg)

When mounting the intersecting lines you must pay attention exactly to the distances to each other, otherwise you get problems with the pass ability quickly. Therefore I have prepared well once the longer piece of transfer line, ranging in the LH2-Tunnel in the Bay 6.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4838/42943291.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

That started in front of the LH2-Tunnel with a segmented elbow pipe, and right at the junction to below as well.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3523/89595631.jpg)

While one can relatively easily determine the length of the line from photos, you must juggle more already downwards to get to the level of the filter output behind the pressure gauge panel. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5471/98127864.jpg)

But that eventually worked, and thus the two parts could be then linked and detailed anything. To contrive of the line was then somewhat more difficult. Because I had drilled the receipt by the LH2 tunnel to be able to insert the line there and therefore to give a better grip, the place was then almost too tight to the threading right before the filter. And prompt the junction is cancelled also because of superglue had tied but still not right. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7533/69709873.jpg)

So the glue joints before gluing again had to be sanded first again, and then everything was solid for the second time and ran smoothly.

So far for today. Now I can customize the small bypass that runs under the transfer line. And since I'm curious whether the size is now able to pass at the connection points. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/09/2013 06:12 AM
The pass ability that would be OK with the small bypass. But at the rear exit at the Vent line, it is now slowly pretty tight, and before there everything is still inaccessible, yet one more line had to be installed. This is a thin vent line, about their history and connections I was so far not completely in the clear. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Therefore at this point for all who are interested, a brief digression in terms of analysis of detail photos for the enlightenment of such details, without which it does not go. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) 

In my field of view this line came again recently when customizing the thicker Transfer line that runs from the filter to the LH2 tunnel. Also this thinner vent line runs from the the LH2-Valve skid to the LH2-Ttunnel, but it runs immediately in front of the MLP wall above the three pipes running from the LOX-Valve skid to the LOX-Tunnel, how one can see in the following photo.

(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3844/55558219.jpg)
Source: http://www.retrospaceimages. com (STS-6)

From this line it was so far not clear to me, where its starting point is, because it was somehow unfortunately always hidden in the most recent photos. Only through more intensive evaluation of other photos I have come then still behind, and ultimately again thanks to the great close-ups of J. Patterson (NSF).

On the next, already known panoramic photo, this little box is beyond the end of the tapered vent line to see (see arrow), and exactly where the line starts.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5304/13601134.jpg)
Source: NASA

The details are clearly visible on the next two photos. Beyond the end of the tapered vent line (hidden) is a "white box" (arrow), from which the pipe by a bushing (?) goes up.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1382/81701407.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5217/79576781.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

And here you can see the line according to the upper elbow pipe to the left in the direction of LH2-Tunnel.

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/134/26378661.jpg)
Source: http://www.flickr.com

And now back to the practical part. These are the parts for the line, right next to it are the brass parts for the small bypass and the now finished last block valve.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9048/89140471.jpg)

And here is the curved line, and as always the key fitting,

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8558/63544262.jpg)

which looks so far, very good. The line passes immediately under the support of the above it in the large Blast Shields.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5162/36287240.jpg)

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9479/44080330.jpg)

And at the end of the small bushing got even their six clamping bolts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5544/p10nc.jpg)

So long!

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 02/09/2013 09:43 PM
Here is some reference for you. :)   http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29198.0;attach=420428;image

Also, any tips on getting the slightly darker shade of burnt orange seen below the rust colored intertank of the ET in this photo? Burnt orange worms for the main color, light orange for the LO2 feed line and intertank flanges, and rust red for the intertank. This slightly darker band of foam, I've no idea.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/09/2013 10:48 PM
Thanks for this photo, do you know what mission it is?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

The different colors of the ET's are really a difficult thing for the painting with which I have but still not intensive looking. But that is still to come ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/10/2013 06:14 AM
According to plan I wanted to have completed actually work on the LH2-Valve skid until Christmas, but first, it is otherwise, and secondly as you think. That is why only a few pictures of the final preparations of the still missing small parts.

Since, at first a branch is short before the end of the Vent line, which goes as a rising pipe (behind the arrow tip) upwards, flows through a small valve in the Transfer line and forward towards a small sensor is completed.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8849/74681159.jpg)
Source: NASA

For this, I have drilled a hole (0,7 mm) in the Transfer line at this point,

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6112/41522562.jpg)

and threading the pipe already time trial.

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/854/54727168.jpg)

At this image is right the rising pipe to see and some bypasses and sensors.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4202/73202906.jpg)

Here, the rising pipe is threaded in the Transfer line.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3168/65650101.jpg)

And on the right corner of Side 1 there is still this connection line between the Transfer line and the Vent line, which I also already have prepared.

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/14/52632049.jpg)

Now can be then again sometimes painted. So enough with the nice mess for today. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/11/2013 06:09 AM
I looked around me now in the paint shop, and because the parts are now ready, it can go now finally on the LH2-Valve Skid in the last round.

Here are the painted pipes, valves, fittings, and sensors.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7479/81681347.jpg)

Before installing the Transfer line (rear), and Vent line (front) the yellow markings were still attached, I again used decal stripes.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9427/96313197.jpg)

And then it started, here again the previous build on the right valve skid.

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/549/47902448.jpg)

And now always nice in turn. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  First came the vent line on the wall.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2075/18275856.jpg)

Then the fourth block valve was glued, which stands backwards. Left to the valve the angled connecting pipe (with the yellow stripe) could now be mounted, which encounters the end of the vent line.

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1452/94730015.jpg)

Now also the thicker transfer line could be threaded, which leads from the LH2-Filter to the LH2-Tunnel.

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3037/26207079.jpg)

These were now the remaining consumables (valves and sensors).

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1875/69835517.jpg)

And thus, the LH2-Valve skid is now almost complete and again reached a milestone. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  Now missing only the Monitoring Panel on the right side of the skid, which is standing in front of the sloping branch pipe of the Vent line.

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3580/95534374.jpg)

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7373/65023900.jpg)

Finally, still the connecting pipe has been mounted between transfer line and vent line at the right corner.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1236/p10nl.jpg)

All in all it was somehow more difficult to build the LH2-Valve skid as the LOX-Valve skid and this a pretty hard nut to crack, but now is cracked as well as, and I can relax a little bit of this stress. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/12/2013 06:28 AM
So, with a little distance here are a few pictures of the LH2-Valve skid from a slightly different perspective.

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7030/91678614.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3353/14339619.jpg)

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6339/89259643.jpg)

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4551/34976989.jpg)

And so to the free space on the access platform right before the valve skid, there stands this Monitoring Panel, used to process monitoring of the valve circuits.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1104/19928321.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here are the parts for this, the front panel sits on a double frame, for which I have used square profile 0,5x0,5 mm.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/541/p7jpg.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/884/30221064.jpg)

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/3840/94369567.jpg)

And at this point it should be then.

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6417/p10e.jpg)

So long.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/13/2013 09:15 AM
And for a change now back to something more manageable parts. Because a number of very sensitive armatures, valves and sensors include the two skids of the valve, you will need a sufficient protection from the hot flue gases at start-up.

Serve already mentioned two Blast shields be seen on the next image.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5889/62271359.jpg)
Source: http://www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

These are covers made of sheet steel, which sit on a number of supports that rest against the reinforcement bracers on the MLP wall. The long shield spans the two valve skids and runs from the LOX-Tunnel to the LH2-Tunnel, and the shorter subsequently covers the left Equipment pallet on the left side.

And here are the parts in the paper kit,

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8730/56004180.jpg)

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6471/79877626.jpg)

which I'll use only the sheet metal roofs. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  The supports I will scratch build from 2 mm I-beams, so much like for the Access platforms.

Now I'll start with the two Blast shields on Side 1. And so a lot of the nice Valve skid-details will now inevitably covered and thus overshadowed and can barely be seen, but what the heck ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

Only, I must watch that I not obstruct too much me unnecessarily. There are still in particular the stairs (1, 2) between the Access platforms AP 1, AP 2 and AP 3 I must not forget. And the swing-out staircase (3) from the lower platform of AP 2 to the crawler, which is swung out only during transportation of the MLP, but is folded otherwise in the platform.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7962/50010831.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

And here in the folded state.

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8369/44455470.jpg)
Source: NASA

That's why I've set ever the necessary parts aside.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2038/94647541.jpg)

I'll at least the two staircases 1 and 2 prior to installation of the large blast shield incorporate in order to have enough freedom of movement. The retractable stairs 3 is probably best to install from the bottom, and the stairs 4 should cause no problems.

And thus the blast shields, here is the larger of the two in the paper kit, which I will use only the top. The supports I will scratch with I-beams (2.0 mm).  ;)

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3870/91781537.jpg)

The underside of the canopy has been rather little spartan and provides only the 9 supports. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) That may be in the relatively thin sheet steel, but certainly a bit too daring construction so completely without any further stabilization. And in reality, it looks slightly different, as shown in this image from the bottom. Since some bracers are indented, stiffen the whole canopy.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1609/27079106.jpg)
Source: NASA

And I will indicate at least partially that, although you will see them hardly later. Here are the initial preparations to do so. I'll take 0.3 mm sheet, on which I have drawn the longitudinal Sstruts between the support for the roof. Among them are the I-profiles for the support, which all consist of two parts, only the first support on the right side has still an inner strut extra (left).

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6643/86900942.jpg)

The support on the left side (red dot) of the roof must be slightly longer, since he is sitting right next to the reinforcing bracer in the Bay 6 (in addition to the LH2 tunnel) directly on the wall of the MLP. The first support of the left blast shield sits directly on the reinforcing strut.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/964/p10u.jpg)
Source: http://www.capcomespace.net

On the front edge of the roof between the supports each flat U-profiles are sitting, for that I'll use a 1.5 mm profile.

As far as for the beginning.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/14/2013 06:44 AM
The support for the large Blast shield came off next. So that all are equal, I made again a small mounting template with a few side stops, making it easier to manufacture.

And that is the extreme right support with the intermediate support.

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4536/77967213.jpg)

Gluing the parts with Superglue went so relatively easily.

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8896/93171709.jpg)

The finished support were also stuck with Superglue on the canopy from 0.2 mm sheet. You should not take the Revell adhesive for this, because he would otherwise too disperse the thin sheet.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

You must sure only that one as quickly as possible precisely aligns the support at the intended location, because the Superglue bonds relatively quickly. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

In front of that, already the rectangular profile of 1,5 x 1,0 is mm for the longitudinal bracers to the reinforcement of the roof. Without that, the roof during installation would be otherwise quite unstable and wavy.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4333/25438431.jpg)

The bracers were easily filed in their contact surface on the I-beams of support so they sit flush on the sheet, and ever put to the test.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1310/50449136.jpg)


The Blast shield is now already much more stable with the glued bracers.

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1281/20874688.jpg)


1.5 m U-beams, which sit between the supports form the end of the front edge.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6813/79256102.jpg)

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5726/11852881.jpg)

After glue now the front edge is pretty stable and the large Blast shield actually done, but only almost ready.

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2561/67980034.jpg)

As can be seen in the picture below, there are still three diagonal bracers, on the right side

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/294/45041525.jpg)
Source: NASA

and they came to the final even it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5104/p10jk.jpg)

Now missing only the top, I take out of the paper kit, but before the bottom is still grey painted. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/15/2013 09:59 AM
So that is worth the job for the paint shop guys should also still the small Blast shield to come. The building was in a similar way, again the supports from 2.0 mm I-beams.

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9994/93187340.jpg)

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/156/15580644.jpg)

After the installation of the supports the bracers for the reinforcement and the front edge were prepared,

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6925/64909788.jpg)

and then glued. And thus now both Blast shields are done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/619/21304231.jpg)

Then I found out just a few parts, which must be also Grey painted. That's to the staircase that leads from the bottom Access platform of MLP to the Crawler, and on the other hand the railing for the bordering of the stairwell in the platform, so there also nobody may crash. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2121/18623067.jpg)

And this is the finished stair, which can be folded up and off.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8468/47614549.jpg)

Although isn't much, but the man is happy. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/15/2013 12:42 PM
Before passing the Blast shields to the paint shop a question of detail popped up now but still. When looking at the photos of the Blast shields this small frame on the front corner of the larger canopy was noticed already for a long time, I've given but so far no heed.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5674/69262418.jpg)
Source: NASA

Still, I have considered over again what has probably for a purpose to fulfill. Now I came behind, and therefore a small variety times the question for you: what can this part be there probably good for? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

Who has an idea? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

In the meantime I made me to work and started with the frame,

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3756/70173665.jpg)

and also have installed him.

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7688/30255975.jpg)

And as adding I've complemented the fixture beside on the right side a spotlight is mounted, which is unfortunately somewhat obscured in the first picture.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6943/44279371.jpg)

So, but now the two Blast shields can finally go in the paint shop. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 02/15/2013 02:06 PM
A photo of LC-39B showing more detail of the surrounding pad structures.  http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2013-1512-m.jpg
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/15/2013 09:32 PM
Wow, an interesting photo, and look at the next pictures to http://www-Pao.KSC.NASA.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2013-1517-m.jpg

But that are old and sometimes even new constructions were built. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/16/2013 06:32 AM
Here is the answer to the camera question:

Photos of the last Shuttle years show at this point for all three MLP's (MLP-1, MLP-2, and MLP-3) a camera, which stands on a pedestal, as is to see on this image on MLP-3.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3465/47482608.jpg)
Source: NASA

But this was not always so, but only in the younger Shuttle missions past. At the beginning of the Shuttle era these cameras were mounted for many years on this frame under the Blast shield, as is to see on this photograph of the STS-6 Mission on MLP-2. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4052/32149583.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

David Maier's paper kit provided at this place the camera on the pedestal (AP 3G).

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2160/61570378.jpg)

But David's template shows the MLP-2 in one of the last missions. And I always try to notice that, as I build the Challenger STS-6 mission.

The main difficulty is only, that there are very little good HiRes photos of these early Shuttle missions. But since I have the great shots from the Pad at the STS-6, I was able to discover some striking differences, so including this position.

Later I will now build a camera hanging on this frame, and not standing on the platform. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8739/94181312.jpg)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/17/2013 02:32 PM
Yesterday I've made further with the folding stairs from the bottom Access platform to the Crawler, drilled holes (0.4 mm) for the axis of rotation,

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6638/20517518.jpg)

and made a brass axle.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5971/17067310.jpg)

And it will be incorporated into this opening in the platform then.

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2349/68696969.jpg)

Then the stairs went together with the two Blast shields and some railings for the Access platforms in the paint shop and the guys have laid off immediately. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/2933/48068486.jpg)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6769/30158410.jpg)

Tomorrow, the Blast shields can be installed now, so everything is tight on the Valve skids from above. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/18/2013 01:06 PM
After the completion of blast shields was the fitting of the larger canopy now.

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7531/29062013.jpg)

And it is quite clear, that it now slowly but surely means taking leave of the beautiful sight of exposed pipes and fittings on the two Valve skids, to which I had adjusted already. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4634/63711974.jpg)

For the left canopy still bars between the reinforcing bracers had to be glued in place, because otherwise there would be open columns at the back edge.

At that time I had to omit the grand staircase of the Access platform AP 1 to the upper deck of the MLP, because there was no staircase on the MLP-2 during the STS-6 mission. But over the sub-frame for the stand of the monitoring camera of the LOX valve skid I have not thought, because she was on all my former photos,

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1051/95551326.jpg)
Source: NASA

And as the camera focused on the LH2-Valve skid is not on a stand, but hangs on the right side of the large canopy, I've looked closer to this place on the MLP-2 photo by the STS-6, and three times you can guess... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6749/35305104.jpg)
Source: http://www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

The local camera was also not on a stand, but hung under the small canopy, and at that time showed on the left equipment pallet. And accordingly there were also no stand. So I must remove the sub-frame on my platform, hopefully without greater field damage to set. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

But before this operation and before the Blast shields finally come into place, farewell here again some last views at the still-open platforms on Side 1.
 
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9355/94601654.jpg)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1994/22074962.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1281/63998444.jpg)

So long. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/19/2013 06:26 AM
And now the "lid" is finally on it, but most of the details are still to see, you should select only a different perspective.

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4094/80822977.jpg)

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7820/22326241.jpg)

And now the smaller blast shield is also finished and could be mounted.

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8497/17655098.jpg)

Now I have glued the metal strips over the joints of the panels, which are only implied in the Paper kit, and thus both blast shields now are almost complete. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2557/89984320.jpg)

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6231/68448635.jpg)

Now, under the large canopy even the three Pipe hangars of the LH2-Transfer line missing, which leads to the LH2-Tunnel.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5954/24027895.jpg)
Quelle: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

They come next time. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Now I have installed the staircase to the Crawler, from the most accessible point from below. This is the folded state,

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1189/73713848.jpg)

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9830/78130035.jpg)

and so she is unfolded, now missing only the railing before. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5660/95263602.jpg)

As far as for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 02/19/2013 01:15 PM
In looking at your model, the mesh for the grating looks a bit out of scale,but would fit in well for a 1/72 scale model. What did etched brass did you use for the grating?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/19/2013 04:42 PM
You are right, it's a little bit over scale and that's the reason why: ::)

Before I've started with the gratings I have estimated the mesh size of MLP gratings from the width of the Access platforms in several photos, like this.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8239/s1s4gitterrostearc.jpg)
Source: NASA

Thus the mesh size should amount to therefore in the original approx. 12.0x2.4 cm and in 1:160 approx. 0.75x0.15 mm. Since however so fine-mesh PE plates are offered by no manufacturer, I decided then for a mesh width of 1.2x0.7 mm, which corresponds to the original at least in 2nd approximation, but had the corresponding geometry. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

The manufacturer of this PE gratings is the Polish company ABER, but I bought it with a German provider of MCM Marketing.

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8103/42870559.jpg)

Those are actually as small with 78x44 mm, as announced, do not look bad for it however, but also not very cheap. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/20/2013 09:12 AM
In such combined Kit/Scratch-build projects such as this one should not to be sure that everything runs smoothly and nothing in between. Because firstly, it is otherwise, and secondly as you think...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

And prompt the fate has struck again. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

After now the two blast shields were mounted, I occupied myself ever with the LOX/LH2-Transducer panels. These panels are for control of process parameters of the LOX and LH2 circuits which can logically be seen on Side 1 photos only from behind, because they are served from the back. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4619/58135263.jpg)
Source: NASA

The panels are mounted between T-beam bracers, that sit between the Access platform 1 and two Blast shields (LOX transducer Panel) or between the Access platforms 2 and 3 (LH2 transducer Panel) and stand upright. As a result these Panels must be the blast shields line up, and thus the problem what I got suddenly. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Check this alignment, I had to sadly realize that the access platform under the larger blast shield protrudes too far forward. Although only about 2 mm, but so that the T-beams of the mounting bracers would be not perpendicular but oblique. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

What now, said Zeus ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif) Take everything so leave and thus inclined beams in purchase, but bite the bullet or the access platform according to shorten?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

Now, anyone who knows me, senses how I decided maybe. And since I'm not satisfied with such half-measures, I opted for the cut in the upper lip, and must bite through willy-nilly me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) 

After I had decided to this emergency surgery, I first cut off the superfluous subframe for the camera with my Dremel cutting disc and then carefully removed the front brass angle profile which was still relatively easily because it was glued to the platform bracers with Superglue.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4461/26177847.jpg)

But now came the more difficult part of the exercise, because now in addition approx. 1.5 mm had to away, as you can see here.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/415/57773953.jpg)

And therefore the PE mesh had also to shorten, what initially already terrified me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif) 

Because I wanted to take no risk, I put aside the Dremel, probably the whole grid together with the valve skid would be flown to my ears in the action ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

That is why I have taken to the nail scissors and have carefully cut off piece for piece under the magnifying glass,

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7236/34397958.jpg)

what you can see here.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1196/35332626.jpg)

Then I have reduced again the bracers with the Dremel, with which the operation was almost finished, and the patient is even still alive. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5403/22178651.jpg)

Now the brass angle could to be glued again , and so the case was resolved, thank God. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9163/89640282.jpg)

And to get back to other thoughts, I further made even with the railing in front of the foldaway stairs and the front staircase between the Access platforms AP 2 and AP 3.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3882/35998232.jpg)

So but enough for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 02/20/2013 12:42 PM
I see.

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/21/2013 06:45 AM
The staircase builders have made next and took measurements on the Access platforms.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9673/85865046.jpg)

After that, the stairs went to the fitting,

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1336/48133732.jpg)

nd then in the paint, together with the rails and some profiles for the Pipe Hangars and Transducer Panels.

(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1618/18502529.jpg)

Next I began with the three Transducer Panels that I had shown already in the original image. Here is the first panel, sitting between the two Access Platforms 2 and 3.

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1066/28138066.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

From the paper kit I take only the front board that is glued on a sheet of 0.2 mm. For the lateral bracers I used T-beams 1.5 mm, and 0.25 mm steel rods for the cables.

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4668/59653397.jpg)

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2638/88461499.jpg)

The other two panels sit between the Access platform 1 and the two Blast Shields and were rebuilt as well.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4150/39097782.jpg)

And here, all three panels are already finished and painted. The first panel still got another front plate, as the MLP-2 on STS-6 (green arrowhead) did not have these black cables right in front of the plate. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) The template of the Paper kit, however, comes from the MLP-2 in the last missions, where these cables were actually. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The little boxes I have indicated and made of 0.5 mm round profile.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9664/35317868.jpg)

Prior to the installation of the panel the rear staircase and railing in front of the foldaway stairs were installed, and only then the panel itself.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9214/59217618.jpg)

As well as the railing on the left followed.

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3078/p10wf.jpg)

At the end, yet the front stairs between the two platforms was glued.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1343/p11p.jpg)

From there it continues now with railings, that I've ever tried,

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9929/p12cz.jpg)

and then the two stacked Transducer Panels follow.

Well, that was all in all a quite stressful, but again is well done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 02/21/2013 02:25 PM
Will you be adding the retractable TSM boom that is inside the TSM structure?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23237.0;attach=254211;image 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/21/2013 04:59 PM
Not the whole boom, but the umbilicals I want to try already. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2153/tsmumbilical.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/22/2013 06:44 AM
Here comes the next update,

before I now can attach the railings and in between the two superimposed Transducer Panels, but it remains the three Pipe hangers for the transfer line under the great Blast shield must be installed.

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8462/57777192.jpg)
Source: www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

And therefore I need maximum freedom of movement on the narrow space. This is a pretty windy affair probably already, especially since I need to build the pipe hangars somehow around to the Transfer line, what is evident from the next image.

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2387/57857399.jpg)
Source: T. McClellan (ARC Forums)

The hangars are indeed closed frame constructions made of U-beams, and therefore I must think carefully about how the assembly can best be done.

First I had to find out again, as always, the dimensions of all parts, and already this is not easy and takes time. Here is my first attempt with the lower long U-beam (1.2 mm) with the front diagonal bracer from the Paper kit.

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4179/90598780.jpg)

Then I cut me to the other items and temporarily laid down a pattern. The U-beams all down around are 1.2 mm, the two top bracers 1.5 mm.

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2592/10473072.jpg)

After much deliberation I have decided to glue the bottom part as an assembly and then between canopy and rear to attach, and then attach the two upper side struts and the upper bearing shell if I should succeed then. And concludes each even the diagonal front bracer off, so all in all kinda adventurous, isn't it? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

And then I have just started with the first bottom assembly (right) and then cut all other parts.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2870/52382494.jpg)

And with this hangar base I have made the first fitting and restored the MLP on the back - but please extreme caution, because must be avoided tipping over! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6483/39722052.jpg)

So far so good, it should be alone some care when threading the bottom group, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)  and then still with glue! That's why I'm still considering what's the best method glue up the part. With Superglue, this is always a tricky thing, you must be very hurry up and same get out the first attempt at the right place. And promptly the part already has slipped me fitting from the tweezers and fell between the armatures, which can become so serene ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

Here are the three bases, but must be painted only once again prior to installation.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3983/13270584.jpg)

Therefore a fitting was practiced before the sharp start of mounting quickly again.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3983/13270584.jpg)

I am in any case forward as the number will turn out ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore press please just in case you ever all thumbs. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/23/2013 06:44 AM
After fitting training of the the finished Pipe hangers it was now serious with the assembly. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

To do this, I've considering me that it is probably easier to thread the hangars around the Transfer line initially without glue and put them a few millimeters next to the actual location, to mark these contact points at the MLP wall and under the Blast shield.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7200/74238901.jpg)

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/6770/19998712.jpg)

Before installing I painted again the pipe hangers, and then went off. First I have spotted the Superglue with a thin wire on the marked mounting points and then moved the hangars with the tweezers at the final point and fixed their seat briefly until the hardening of the glue. And then unexpectedly went relatively well, however equal with the adhesive on the hangar, it would probably not so smooth have worked. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And here the first two hangars hang now, the second without the top U-profiles,

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3196/24522908.jpg)

and here complete with the U-profiles and the upper cups, whose mounting was still somewhat stressful. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/55/80267397.jpg)

Now even the diagonal support braces were installed, and thus it was finally done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7459/90372089.jpg)

And now it could go on with the railing and the double Transducer Panel.

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2026/66257121.jpg)

And meanwhile, the staircase to the Access platform AP 4 is already mounted.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8393/78835865.jpg)

So long then up soon.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Bubbinski on 02/23/2013 04:48 PM
Thanks for the pics, that's looking very realistic.  Much more realistic than I would be able to make a MLP at present. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/24/2013 05:45 AM
Thanks for the kind words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

This is the sum of many small details, but costs much time and patience. Initially I thought that also not possible, that I can build these details, but through much practice I have managed to gradually. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/24/2013 05:54 AM
After now the Transducer panels are installed, then just some railings on the Access platform AP 1 could be attached.

I started on the left corner of the platform.

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/999/39765530.jpg)

Immediately to the left beside later one of the already finished Ladder cages will be mounted, the ladders with the protective cage around.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8743/33732496.jpg)

Now to the two medium-sized Access platforms AP 2 and AP 3.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6956/51874293.jpg)

As you can see on this picture, it could continue right next to the Transducer Panel on the lower platform of AP 2.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2733/84744030.jpg)

Before the railing on the upper platform AP 3 may be installed, to the left even the Emergency shower with Eye wash have to be installed. This is an emergency shower for accidents of the MLP staff with any liquids or chemicals, the quick help need. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/105/81138781.jpg)
Source: NASA

That comes next with it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2013 09:25 AM
Now I'll start with the Emergency shower. And this is again so a filigree part that really holds one. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
In the Paper kit that is unfortunately so typical opaque part AP 3H is as shown here, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  that I would rather leave and scratch-build. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4688/86021477.jpg)

I've used for the outer frame T-beam 1,5 mm, for the two crosspieces brass angle profile 1,0 mm, and for the diagonal struts square profile 0,5x0,5 mm.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5346/29154191.jpg)

And similarly, it went on with the upper part.

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4231/79685124.jpg)

With the struts for the rear small frame, the front part could be tried then ever between platform and canopy,

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4307/65134863.jpg)

what also already quite well suited.

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4604/36445704.jpg)

And finally, even the remaining struts were added.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3930/74166342.jpg)

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3760/72816753.jpg)

Now, the shower can be painted again, and then the white Sprenkler pipe can then be adapted and installed. I must separately produce probably the supply line from the MLP wall and the curved pipe behind the frame and attach as it goes through the frame through. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

From the riser, then still a branch goes after right to the Eye wash, which on the railing is installed. For the bowl I have to think of something me, after I've unfortunately found nothing suitable, but I have an idea. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 02/25/2013 01:52 PM
All I can say is Wow...I'm not too Jealous 

Every Day this is one of the First places I Visit, to see this Shape into a Great Model..

Thanks for Sharing ,,,

I wonder if you intend to Add some Lighting , like under the Flame Blast shields
 with some small LEDS ??   Well anyway, You make Great Realistic Parts..

Dave
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2013 07:35 PM
Hi Dave,

thanks for the nice words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)
   
I'm pleased if you like my MLP. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) Yes, indeed the lighting would not be bad, especially below the Blast shields, which now overshadow everything. But first, I am not as a LED specialist, and secondly, it would be now even more effort as already. But perhaps the lighting can be added after, even when I'm done with everything and would even want to do this. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/26/2013 06:15 PM
Before I do next with the Emergency shower, a short detour to the Eye wash, that's the eyes shower made of stainless steel which can be seen on this photo beautifully right next to the Emergency shower.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7374/88666607m.jpg)
Source: NASA

For the small vessel I have separated a small ring of a 3.0 mm plastic pipe, was closed down with a 1.8 mm round profile. On the back of the frame of the emergency shower small brackets for the Sprinkler pipe are glued on,

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/560/98617612.jpg)

that I have bent from 0.6 mm round profile. Next to it is the small eye shower. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6320/75390699.jpg)

By the way I started with the GO2-Monitoring Panel, which is left of the double Transducer Panel on the Access platform AP 1, and looks similar to the GH2-Monitoring Panel for the LH2-Valve skid.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5499/68229803.jpg)
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)

The frame is made of square profile again 0,5x0,5 mm, the front panel is similar to the other Monitoring panel.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9203/85550407.jpg)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2788/14289691.jpg)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5827/37078047.jpg)

And there, the Panel now stands on its place.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7135/44781580.jpg)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/27/2013 06:30 AM
Now, the Sprinkler pipe was further structured.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2410/57943309.jpg)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2629/46565656.jpg)

Next, the inlet pipe has been assembled, made of 0.6 mm round profile,

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/879/14619226.jpg)

which must be performed through the frame. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4715/57707762.jpg)

And then also the fitting fit quite well with the elbow pipe and the reduced inlet pipe. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7348/73439295.jpg)

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4237/50010097.jpg)

Again only a few minor equipment details that further round out the picture, but otherwise quite held something back. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/28/2013 10:25 AM
Once the inlet pipe is painted, the Emergency shower could be installed now also fixed.

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/8485/14476062.jpg)

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9423/34633518.jpg)

And already it goes on with the small Eye wash, which got also a supply,

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4435/83029772.jpg)

that goes through the railing and was adapted to the inlet pipe of the Emergency shower.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8362/28434013.jpg)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4001/75468802.jpg)

Before connecting the Eye wash I still glued the railing,

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9509/11493851.jpg)

and then the Eye wash was installed. Thus, the safety instructions on the Side 1 would now also met. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4202/42076022.jpg)

Behind the railing, then follows a ladder that leads from the lower platform AP 2 to the upper platform AP 3 and the upper part has a Ladder cage,

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/242/64308272.jpg)

as is shown in this picture. And therefore now after a long time again a Ladder Cage is to scratch-build, which is but not so long as on the corner right next to it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4053/93798089.jpg)
Source: NASA

As far as once again for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/28/2013 10:46 AM
Manfred, your model looks beyond amazing!  :o I am rather sure that I will never build such a detailed and skillful model, because I am not a person with much patience in anything. And this is not a rocket or spacecraft model, but a mobile launch platform....... I certainly don't have such an interest on ground facilities!  :P
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/28/2013 02:40 PM
Thanks for your nice words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

I am also glad that the MLP as a first step to a entire Launch pad will soon have managed. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

For me, the whole Launch pad is a great challenge, and this include not only just the Shuttle stack, many guys prefer to build, but also as the complete service structure with FSS, RSS and a Crawler.

BTW, patience is very important in such a demanding project, and one point also: No pain, no gain.(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/04/2013 04:35 PM
And now to the Ladder Cage from the Access Platform AP 2 to AP 3. For making I have resorted again to my successful practice. I had picked up the core for the winding of the basket so wisely. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

First strips were cut from Evergreen strips 0,25x0,5 mm and rings bent under hot air, this time but only five instead of seven, as the passage to the platform remains free.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img6/9291/39294664.jpg)

The struts and the ladder were then placed on tape strips and together wrapped around the core and so fixed.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8710/52066092.jpg)

This time, only two rings are required for happiness, because the basket is only as high as the railing.

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9338/14109702.jpg)

The rings were glued again with Superglue, so that your seat is just fixed. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/526/44117954.jpg)
   
And so the small basket was almost finished after depositing the protruding parts and was omitted only at the transit point. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6819/98109865.jpg)

After cutting the ladder on the final length the ladder cage could be painted.

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8018/60383682.jpg)

Then, installation of the basket and the railing before and behind followed. Meanwhile, even the handrails on the Access platform AP 4 have been mounted.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8528/99949365.jpg)

Yet the last parts of the railing before the stairs were attached at the end,
 
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4906/47527603.jpg)

thus, the railings on the Side 1 are now finally complete. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/271.gif) 

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8784/37988823.jpg)

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8751/p10lg.jpg)

I will not initially install the two large Ladder cages at the corners, because these fragile structures during another handling with the MLP body would probably only an obstacle and could go to break, which would be a shame. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/06/2013 06:53 PM
Hello together,

did today again for fire protection. I had made me recently's thoughts on the striking red wires on the MLP-2 on STS-6 and tried corresponding colors.

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/8437/23923707.jpg)
Source: http://www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

As I have now learnt from NSF by padrat, a longtime employee at the Launch pad, these are FIREX lines that provide various Sprinkler systems. And that I've retrofitted today as a precaution, because anything can happen ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

As you can see in this old photo of the MLP-2 on STS-6, this line runs almost over the entire length of the Side 1, runs under the two Blast shields and is therefore on most pics hard to detect.

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4320/29362032.jpg)
Source: http://www.retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

The pipes are from 0.5 mm or 0.8 mm Evergreen rods.

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9959/75896873.jpg)

And I have installed now the painted pipes with my pattern No. 4 in several parts.

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6599/33671324.jpg)

Although the normal viewer hardly can see the other parts of the line under the Blast shields, I've installed it but still, safety first ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7404/28487687.jpg)

Unfortunately, the colors in the sunlight are too distorted by a blue color fog, because I had to go very close to the window so that the red lines are visible.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4107/25060010.jpg)

Now, the safety inspection can come safely ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/char13.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/13/2013 01:36 PM
Hello together,

now work on Side 1 up on odds and ends are as good as finished, now another important part of MLP equipment is to build  and that's the Sound Suppression Water System (SSWS), which is seen in this picture.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8510/47761463.jpg)
Source: NASA

This system is to protect the orbiter with its payload from the acoustic energy reflected from the upper deck of the MLP during launch. For this reason, during Lift-off huge quantities of water are pumped through a piping system and special outlets in the SRB- and SSME exhaust holes and sprayed through six so-called Rainbirds over the MLP deck as you can see here during a SSWS test impressively.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1544/89684287.jpg)
Source: NASA

The SSWS includes also respectively 30 Water bags, which in addition are hung from above in the SRB-holes and are intended to support the effect.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6697/17844175.jpg)
Source: NASA

The following drawing gives an overview of the SSWS with precise details on the respective tube diameters, which are needed for the scratch-build. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8168/75428935.jpg)
Source: NASA

From this picture, it is already clear that the pipe fitters are now really required, the difficulty being that the pipes in some places even rejuvenate. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

In the Paper kit all looks and loads one formally to a stressful action, which I'll save me dear again, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5519/16587943.jpg)

already at the sight of the installation instructions joy comes up but determined, or about goosebumps? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2387/57093699.jpg)

I'm still not sure whether I'll build the Rainbirds for the Kit template or may scratch-build them. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif)

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3818/74656798.jpg)

And enough of the preface and pure enjoyment. These are the different round profiles that are required with diameters ranging from 1 mm to 6 mm.

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9505/85278581.jpg)

On the main pipes with a diameter of 4 mm, you could use also the sprues of the orbiter from the Revell Kit that had been a beautiful 90 elbow. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7678/38325624.jpg)

Here are the templates for the pipe support, after which I first will try the bending variant for the pipe with 4 mm. The actual line is only the outer gray border, the rest is support base.

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5994/p10id.jpg)

The bending of 4 mm rods is not easy due to the strength, to do this you must preheat well already with a hair dryer, in order to get a 90 elbow then after bending bit by bit. And before the next bend you must inflate the 6 mm pipe for the thicker inlet pipe downwards, otherwise it afterwards would have a problem. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4146/p11ot.jpg)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1291/p112e.jpg)

And so the pipe fits then about the SRB-Exhaust hole. The last section is a little further on the TSM than is provided in the paper kit. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2006/p13fn.jpg)

As far as today for the beginning.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/15/2013 05:44 AM
And now further went with the pipe for the other SRB hole. To do this I have applied this time another variant for bending, because what is using hot air, should work well in a hot water bath and maybe even easier. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

Therefore, I have kept the bending point of the rod in boiling water a while and then bent. And behold, that was even easier than with the hair dryer because the rod in the water can warm through better and more evenly and therefore easier to soften.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1887/84044025.jpg)

And so you get to also cleaner and more accurate bends.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1699/61832580.jpg)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5852/92131923.jpg)

So long.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 03/21/2013 05:09 PM
Manfred, I have lurned so much just from looking at your photos. Please keep posting so we all can see what a great job you are diong. Thank You
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Lar on 03/21/2013 05:56 PM
Manfred, I have lurned so much just from looking at your photos. Please keep posting so we all can see what a great job you are diong. Thank You

This model build reveals what a MASSIVE amount of engineering went into the MLP, that's for sure.

Lego is my preferred medium, which limits the detail level and fidelity of proportion that can be achieved, but it's fun.

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=1682-1 and http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=6339-1 only hint at the MLP, but they are very small scale ....

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=10213-1 has the wing holders modeled a bit better but still is lacking in MLP detail, although the Orbiter/ET/SRB proportions are better.

Might be fun to build a CT and MLP to Shuttle Adventure (10213) scale and I know where I am going to be cribbing detail ideas from :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/25/2013 10:29 AM
Manfred, I have lurned so much just from looking at your photos. Please keep posting so we all can see what a great job you are diong. Thank You
Thanks for the nice words, I'll go on doing my best. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/25/2013 10:37 AM
Manfred, I have lurned so much just from looking at your photos. Please keep posting so we all can see what a great job you are diong. Thank You

This model build reveals what a MASSIVE amount of engineering went into the MLP, that's for sure.

Lego is my preferred medium, which limits the detail level and fidelity of proportion that can be achieved, but it's fun.
...

Thanks for your kind comment. Why not LEGO?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) Easy to start your own thread and show us your builds. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/25/2013 10:52 AM
Hello together,

so, today's continues now with the SSWS, and what does it take to install such pipes on the deck of the MLP?
Exactly, lots of Pipe supports, we so also no longer had!  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

To do this, I have browsed my photo collection first once again to find out where all the Pipe supports everywhere sit. I've started with the supports of the 24" main line ( 4.0 mm) around the SRB holes from which then the six 18" inlet pipes ( 3.0 mm) are branching off to the outlets in the SRB exhaust holes, respectively the two rear pipes (between the Hold down posts) are reduced again on 12" ( 2.0 mm). (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif) 

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9199/92129735.jpg)
Source: NASA

If you look closely, you can see two versions of the Pipe supports. The majority of the supports is placed directly on joints of the main line segments can be seen on the narrow locking straps, which are clearly visible in the next image on the right.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5295/51855446.jpg)
Source: NASA

But there are also some supports without these locking straps, as in the foreground, which have all the same construction. These supports are unfortunately only hinted in the Paper kit. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/97/38349762.jpg)

In the following already shown overview drawing I've assigned the places of all Pipe support, and thereby not amazed, namely each 18 supports on each SRB hole. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2047/54196453.jpg)
Source: NASA

The supports with the locking straps are located on the 14 green marked points, the remaining 4 supports on the red marked points having no such straps. When evaluating the photographic material I have discovered some supports (1, 3, 8, 12, 14) and supplemented, which are missing from the drawing.

Again, this means all in all a lot of detailed work. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  But don't worry, these supports also will be done sometime, however I have to consider quite a while as I could scratch-build the best. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) 

Came out is the following variant, where I assumed first of those profiles here. The two lower profiles are a 3.0 mm U-beam or 3.0 mm Evergreen channel, which can be used for the lower part of the supports. For the upper part, where the pipeline runs, I used a 3 mm square tube, which I have 2x slotted on one side to come to a U-shaped profile with the necessary structural height. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5995/25632619.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1067/88992256.jpg)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/614/22659576.jpg)

And so looks like the finished SSWS Pipe support.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4485/90750055.jpg)

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3135/99162558.jpg)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/377/p10gf.jpg)

Thus, the SSWS line then runs approx. 3 mm above the MLP deck, which has resulted in my assessment on the basis of detailed photos.   
And now I need to make only the remaining 35 supports ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hmmm.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/29/2013 04:42 PM
Before I start with the pipe support mass production, I started now with the preparations of the Water Bags. This so-called SRB ignition overpressure suppression system is a subsystem of the SSWS. These are plastic bags, which are hooked before the start into the two SRB Exhaust holes and then filled with water, which should in addition to swallow the pressure wave of booster ignition and prevent the reflection of sound waves.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/981/50716629.jpg)
Source: NASA

There are 10 yellow water bags in the Primary SRB Hole between the four Hold down Posts just below the SRBs,

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/944/89186710.jpg)
Source: http://www.youtube.com

and 20 red bags in the Secondary SRB Hole behind it, that here just be filled in the image.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7981/27542264.jpg)
Source: NASA

So, first again I had to determine the dimensions, then choose the appropriate materials, and construct a suitable form. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)
   
The shape of the arches, I have identified from this NASA photo and measured on the monitor.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/964/68893004.jpg)

I have found information on the dimensions of the water bags on the SSWS page at capcomespace.net (http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/ksc/SSWS/LC39_SSWS.htm). Therefore, the water bags have a cross-section of 30x30 cm, which corresponds to approx. 1,9x1,9 mm in my scale (1:160). I.e. I'll make the partitions with the bow shape from 0.2 mm sheet and paste a rectangular profile 2,0x1,5 mm at the bottom, which should come out then in about and looks in my sketch for the template.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6404/97808070.jpg)

Let's start with the cut of 21 partitions and the 20 profiles for the first SRB Hole,

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1733/86664334.jpg)

as well as a first fitting.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7104/56558895.jpg)

And these are now all puzzle pieces,

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6053/76622672.jpg)

must be glued only. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5578/16735507.jpg)

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5599/p10mj.jpg)

Here I must take into account now but still the recesses for the inlet pipe in the corner and the two branches into the hole before the Hold down Posts.

So far for the beginning ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/knirpsi13/Eagle/RolandChayerByeByeSmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/01/2013 11:39 PM
Manfred, your shuttle project is still looking so good!! Keep up the great work.

Crawler 14/499
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/07/2013 07:20 AM
Thanks for the nice words.

I hope that you had found all of your Easter eggs and had no rotten egg in the nest like me. That was a nasty surprise. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  The bad thing is that I've created me even in the nest. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

When measuring in the SRB holes for the arrangement of the water bags in front of the Hold down posts I have checked the location of one SRB and got a mild shock. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)  The size and location of the SRB stencil indicated me that there would be a very serious problem with the 1:144 shuttle stack which I totally must have lost sight during the former MLP construction according to my analysis of the scale dilemma of the Revell launch Tower Kit with his Mini-MLP (1:200).

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/8035/93030925.jpg)

As you can see, the attachment points of the SRB on the front two Hold down posts sit about on its front edge and therefore too far forward. That would in itself not broken, if you would lay both Hold down posts accordingly further forward, though for the pipe down almost no place would more. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5303/15022413.jpg)

But this is unfortunately not a solution if one imagines now the location of the shuttle stack with the mighty ET between the SRBs. At that thought, I got a queasy feeling in the stomach and had to bite in hindsight in the butt me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)

How could I that overlook at that time only, would fit the spatial geometry of the stacks in 1:144 inevitably not to the MLP-scale of 1:160. But since then I have focused in my heat only on the construction of the MLP, what should take revenge now. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

Nevertheless, everything would have been if, but helping now no longer, and therefore I must see me how I can solve the problem, since only helps teeth high and head bite, since I must go through ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg)

Therefore all further work on the Water bags and SSWS pipes was being discontinued for the time and the crisis staff convened to find a way out. There is a solution for everything! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Therefore I put temporarily along the Airfix stack, to see how that now specifically looks on the spot.

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5103/20318096.jpg)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3724/37984385.jpg)

As can be easily seen on the images, the SRB are inevitably too close together (1:160) holes for the stack (1:144). As a result I will not come around willy-nilly to major interventions in the SRB holes, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)  because I must transfer in about the geometry of the stack at least in lateral direction.

Also another thing struck me on the occasion. At the sight of the imposing size of the stack the 1:160 TSMs seem purely optically too small in the relation, what has surprised me.

(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4553/56491901.jpg)

Therefore, I've put a TSM from the Revell Kit compared in addition.

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/254/27281990.jpg)

I don't know how it is you, but I find that the larger TSM is visually better fits to the stack. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)  and also because of the mounting height of the orbiter on the stack I should be more consistent manner then the TSMs again build in 1:144, then at least the stack with the orbiter from the height produced the TSMs suits, also in terms of the umbilicals, if I want to mount that sometimes. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

What do you think about?

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/07/2013 03:27 PM
   MANFRED, What a dilemma you have here!! Perhaps 1:160 for the MLP was just a little to small, ( I'll keep this in mind when I start my project).

  The TSM's do look better with the stack at 1:144 scale, but I'm not sure if the TSM's look ok with the MLP at 1:160 scale ( just a little to big for me). Perhaps a slight resize from 1:144 of the TSM's made from resin?

  As for the hold down posts for the SRB and the blast holes... I know you do not want to perform any sort of surgury here, but first ( and this is just how I might handle the situation) I would try a slight relocation of the two holes, a cut and paste sort of deal. After that did not work out so well I would scavange as much as possible and resize the MLP to fit the stack better and start over. Sell off what you started to someone who could use the parts for kit bashing. The piont is to cut your losses asap and correct the situation befor it goes any farther.

  The amount of work you have put into this project is considerable, but it has been only a few months of a project that will go on for a year or two.

  The piont is, not all interfaces were considered befor resizeing the MLP (and you might check the interface of the MLP with the LUT for that match up also).

  I'm just not sure what to say to make you feel any better other than I'm behind you 100% on any desission you make for this problem, and I do so want you to complete the project! I'm just thrilled to see a pro build the same project that I aspire to. I have the revell kit and the LVM details. I was realy hoping that someone would start a thread with this construction project.

  Maybe, if its alright with you, we can exchange email address and communicate directly with each other about the situation at hand and anything that might arrise in the future.

   I have fears and hopes that you do not get discouraged and give up on the project. I am lurning so much from this post that I want to keep in contact with you over time. Almost everyone starts a thread like this and I find that they do not follow through with the posting and then I lose contact with them and then my projects stall. This one is just to cool to let go by the wayside.

  Please keep everyone informed as to how you will deal with this temporary road block and what you deside to do.

  Good luck Manfred, I'll be keeping up with your postings if you do also.

RichO,  Crawler14/499
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/07/2013 05:55 PM
Hi RichO,

thanks for your compassion and your kind words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif) What a nice surprise to hear that you want to start a similar major project. What kind of MLP do you want to build? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif)

We can gladly exchange via e-mail. Not afraid, I won't give up, I must correct my errors only. I'll post a few new photos soon and show you my compromise for a way out.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/07/2013 09:16 PM
Let's go, to better assess of the situation, I have placed a transparent template of 1:144 geometry of SRB- and SSME shafts from the paper kit here for comparison.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1233/72648271.jpg)

As you can see it, you could like this leave the location of the front and inner walls of the SRB-bays. The outer walls would have to be laid, however, further outward to get to the required width of the stack. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3236/20749797.jpg)

From this MLP-floor plan, you can well see the location of the stack on the SRB holes.

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8407/69270465.jpg)
Source: NASA

From this I've scaled the stack on 1:144 and put it moreover. For the remaining two shaft sides would be offered two compromises:

Compromise 1:
So leave the location of backs and the shaft is widened only appropriately. Then the shaft would be somewhat shorter than in 1:144, but then still relatively little space for the SSWS pipes and the Water bags would remain, since the front two Hold down posts would also go further, apart from the optics. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6417/p10e.jpg)

Compromise 2:
The shafts are modified on the 1:144 length and wander a little bit about the Blast deck. Space would thus be in the holes, both the Hold down post as also for the SSWS pipes and Water bags and the optics would be better off.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/83/p11g.jpg)

Stand today I tend almost to the 2nd compromise solution which would mean certainly more effort. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

So you could leave the front SSME hole, only the location of the TSMs would have to be adapted.

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/272/p12pk.jpg)

The size of the TSMs I would have been more due to the fitting to the stack to the 1:144er version. Here again, a comparison of the two TSMs, 1:144 to 1:160.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6720/p13zs.jpg)

What do you say now to the two possibilities, or there may be other alternatives? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/07/2013 11:48 PM
  MANFRED,  I like the two solutions that you came up with. It looks like both solutions involve some major surgery, but I also like option #2 better than option #1. I think that option #1 may be less work, but option #2 feels better.

  I am interested to see how you handle the water guench nozzels beside the blast chambers. It seems that in iether case they will have to be relocated somewhat, a little more geometry to figure out, but then again most people might not even notice this if the relocation is not to radical.

  your solution for the TSM's still seems solid tho. I'm realy anxious and excited to see how you pull this off, because this is a huge lurning experience for me at this point, just to see how someone else develops a solution to this type of problem.

  I have not quite desided which MLP I will be building at this point. I do feel that Edu-Craft paper kit will be what I will be working with for a base starting point. I have yet to finish my current project,( Micro Artwork crawler)and I still need to gather some more parts for my build. Also I heard that LVM Studios has a new PE sheet #5 ready to be released soon. However with what I see with your build I'm sure that you will super detail the LUT in the same fassion as the MLP.                                                                                                                                  I had considered the 1:144 shuttle LUT from Edu-Craft to start with, but I'm not quite sure of the detail of this kit. Perhaps to use the paper one for a pattern and scratch build with Evergreen plastic beams and rods. An idea anyway, but I'm realy anxious about how you detail the LUT for this project. 

  You can email me, RichO, here at (artlayne@comcast.net). I'm realy excited to communicate with someone from across the pond, (let alone the total otherside of the planet), that is working on the same project. 

  Manfred, good luck with your fixing and I'll keep watching, because I will have the same situation ahead of me.

  Thanks again, RichO, Crawler 14/499
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/09/2013 09:58 AM
RichO,

thanks for the kind words. I'm also really excited to communicate with some other modelers, to share experiences, as can be learned a lot. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) 

Now, I have to improvise a lot and customize, if I want to re-size the SRB holes what will certainly not be easy,  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) but is not hopeless.

One must be clear from the beginning, if you want to use the old Revell Kit. You will have to make some compromises, or you have to build all OOB, even the small MLP, then there will be no problem.(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

It's very interesting, that you are building the Crawler by MicroArtwork, is it 1:96? This is a great model, can you show us some photos of it?

BTW I've also heard by Leon van Munster, that LVM Studios has a new Detail Kit No. 5 to be released soon, I'm very interested in.

Now I'm already curious on your first pictures!

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/09/2013 08:56 PM
  MANFRED, I would just like to say good luck on the SRB hole relocation, I know you can do it. ;D

  Yes, the Micro Artwork crawler is at 1:96. Is very complex and the parts are microscopic small. I will get photos presently and post these for everybody to critique and possibly help with building tips.

  I to am a mixer, such as yourself. I will be replaceing the paper wireing with copper wire, I plan to use model railroad lighting to fully light the kit, and I plan to super detail the inside of engine rooms and control office also. I am also concidering casting my own tred shoes, and adding slot car moters so I can make my crawler crawl ( but not sure about this at present tho).

  The full display I have planned has four main kits, the Crawler, MLP- LUT and Saturn v,( all Micro Artwork kits ( I just love the detail in these kits) with the MSS scratch built. I cant find any models of the MSS anywhere at all! Since the MSS is only a support structure it is very difficult to find desent photos or drawings for this. I have managed to find some tech drawings for this tho so not all is lost.

  As for my space shuttle project, useing the revel kit OOB simply wont do. The scales are a little out of controll for me. This is why I am so interesred to see how you are building your display.

  So back to work, I'll keep watching. RichO

   
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/11/2013 08:10 AM
Thanks RichO for your wishes for my emergency surgery, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) I hope it will work so far and will start today. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

Can't wait to see your Micro Artwork crawler at 1:96 and your first steps. Wow, very interesting, that you plan to fully light the kit etc., I'm curious. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/11/2013 08:27 AM
Hello Guys,

all this has left no peace about me, and therefore I've perused again exactly the MLP Report (http://environmental.ksc.nasa.gov/projects/documents/MLPreport.pdf), which contains the exact dimensions of the equipment on the MLP upper deck (0 Level, p. 19). And therefore, I must correct my previous statements about D. Maiers templates. Its templates (sorry David) are absolutely correct, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) what affects the SRB- and SSME holes and the TSMs and I suspect that he has the dimensions from the MLP Report too.

SRB holes: LxW=42'x20' = 89x42 mm (1:144)

SSME hole: LxW=34'x31' = 72x66 mm (1:144)

The 1:144 dimensions of the SRB holes therefore are not entirely correctly in the AXM templates. The length is not 82 mm but 89 mm, and the width not 40 mm but 42 mm.

And also the TSM's placement on D. Maier's template looks correct, but the TSM's on the AXM template seems to sit too close to the shuttle's wings. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1387/70215507.jpg)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4581/89712350.jpg)

Still the shorter AXM length of course will fit better to my 1:160 MLP!!!

So it can be taken into account by all modelers. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/11/2013 10:41 AM
I've been thinking about the possible variants of the adaptation of the SRB holes in an emergency surgery. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  Here, I will probably widen the SRB holes on 1:144, and adjust the length in a tolerable level, possibly to 1:150 ... 1:155 ...

Here are two photos, first on the AXM template,

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2278/13773193.jpg)

and here on the MLP.

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3460/78170371.jpg)

I think it will run out probably now to an emergency surgery, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)  and therefore fingers crossed for the quiet time, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) I have already some similar surgery successfully behind me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

Therefore keep the safety first and air! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

And so with the courage of despair and fresh impetus just purely in the emergency surgery. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) 

In a first surgery I've removed the middle four Hold down posts in the SRB holes what was relatively harmless. The other four on the front walls stick fixed, be replaced also.   

After that I did the SRB-Blast shields piece by piece carefully until the TSMs dissolved and removed, which also still relatively good went to, and then looks like:

(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/311/33554479.jpg)

In the meantime I have chosen as well as for the modification of the SRB holes, i.e. with the width I'll go on the 1:144 level, and with the length to 1:150, which corresponds to the green line. So blast shields would go about 10 mm beyond the blast deck, why I must move the deck this 10 mm backwards. To create this space, I'll probably cut the blast deck along the line with the red arrows, and put back the front part. Thus the two Rain birds (green arrows) to this small move while piece next to rear, what but to get over, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) and the Blast shields back flush with the Blast deck off. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) 

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8098/16142753.jpg)

And so the stack would then sit across the SRB holes, what actually made quite well together and would have to fit the proportions, and thus would be even enough space for the SSWS pipes and Water bags. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3007/60155023.jpg)

As far as for today, tomorrow, come the deeper cuts off ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/15/2013 09:38 AM
I've decided yet different and I'll go to 1:155! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

And now guys it goes right to the thing, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

I only have to think about just the right battle plan where and how I best start and with which tools. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 

To do this I must look again at my old photos from the start-up phase, as I had built the substructure. Then I know roughly where I come out with my cuts through the hardboard either/hopefully in the cavity, or in the Balsa wood. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif) 

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6406/26810171.jpg)

The cut line of the long sides will be probably right behind the inner shaft wall. As a result, the rear wall will need also away. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) 

And here is the drawing for the modified SRB.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9287/20858280.jpg)

Firstly, I've tried carefully a few cuts with the mini saw,

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8228/89237593.jpg)

and then drilled a few holes for the saw to come through the upper hardboard.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1316/25993796.jpg)

The sawing but not particularly went well, maybe I came out even in the side wall which saw stuck in more often and which has repeatedly jammed. That's why I took up then the Dremel,

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/549/31642035.jpg)

and with the blade the hardboard through scratched up on the Balsa wood.

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3046/68043706.jpg)

And then it painstakingly went piece by piece with saws, chisels and cutters in depth, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) and that hurt me in the soul and is genuine to the howling (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) ...

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2271/71880001.jpg)

This was overall quite stressful, but there also no whining helps.

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6755/39030594.jpg)

Finally, I have cannibalized both shafts up to the lower hardboard in the truest sense of the word, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/81/21482778.jpg)

and can draw the bottom hardboard for the cuts now.

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5372/p10a.jpg)

Now gotta only strongly take a deep breath ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/16/2013 05:43 PM
MANFRED,   I was just heart broken to see the SRB holes in such sad shape. It dose look like the surgury is going well tho. Good job Doc! ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: cneth on 04/16/2013 07:05 PM
And then it painstakingly went piece by piece with saws, chisels and cutters in depth, and that hurt me in the soul and is genuine to the howling
Manfred, I know English is probably not your first language, but this came out as pure poetry in English.    Your work is excellent, and it pains me as well to see what you have had to do here.

Craig
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/17/2013 07:44 AM
Hi RichO and Craig,

thanks for your encouraging words and your compassion. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif) But the surgery is unfortunately not yet completed and I must prepare the next anaesthesia for my poor MLP,  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/fight.gif) and a few calming drops for me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)
It is a terrible feeling in the Valley of tears, but the situation is not hopeless, the patient will survive. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

I need the teeth together biting and me to concentrate fully, so that no other things to break. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) At the moment, it's all very sad, but I'll do it, the life will go on, and therefore keep your fingers crossed. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/20/2013 11:09 PM
Hello friends,

but first, I had to insert a break to gain some distance and to take new courage.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/boohoo.gif)  And further went to draw the new contours of the SRB hole openings on the hardboard on the bottom,

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8631/13156479.jpg)

that I sawed out with the Mini saw.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3034/59944657.jpg)

Back flush with the shaft holes to insert the outer walls of the shafts, only remnants of the side support bars had to be removed. That was a pretty tedious action where there was lots of shavings and dust.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8278/87943359.jpg)

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1028/87111802.jpg)

But then, it was finally done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/woo.gif)

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3817/29226138.jpg)

For a stable fit of the outer walls, I have again prepared supports of Balsa piece 15x15 mm and fit.

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7607/67981492.jpg)

The side walls are again from 6 mm Balsa and fit quite well into the openings.

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6852/24081943.jpg)

Now the parts must be glued only.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The rear walls are then prepared in a similar way and incorporated, bringing the shafts again slowly take shape. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

Knock on wood! So far everything went well, so go on. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 04/21/2013 03:48 PM
Manfred, Remember into each Life, some Rain must Fall....just keep up the excellent work  !! 

David
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/21/2013 05:37 PM
Manfred,  It looks like the patient is going to live!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/21/2013 09:37 PM
Hi David and RichO,

thanks for your encouraging words and your compassion as well as for your fingers crossing. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif) I am glad that this surgery worked out well so far, and I hope that the wounds will heal soon and no major scars remain. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)
There are also better days coming ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/26/2013 08:40 PM
And here are some new pictures from the site.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  These are the squared timbers for the support of the outer side walls,

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8250/80807393.jpg)

they then together with the supports for the back walls were glued. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1581/46592884.jpg)

Then the side panels could be glued,

(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5322/96032751.jpg)
   
missing only the covers for backs.

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1013/91912658.jpg)

And after that are finally glued, but everything looks already once again much more friendly, isn't it?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7250/57792560.jpg)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7618/40339830.jpg)

Now I have to turn to the Blast deck that must be moved slightly backwards. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/27/2013 02:12 PM
MANFRED,   Good job!! The blast chambers look like they never had a problem and are ready for interiour detail. Only a few more steps and you'll be right back to the water bags, Like nothin' ever happened. Keep up the good work!!!!

 Richo, crawler 114/499
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/27/2013 04:07 PM
Thanks RICHO for your encouraging words and that you don't let me down.   

Now the SRB holes will get new borders as well as new Blast shields. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) 

BTW, all that handling of the MLP was very delicate, as if I had a raw egg in my hands. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

But all pipes and supports will remain intact, only the blind flange of the LOX-Transfer line on Side 2 is broken.

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3307/30920245.jpg)

There was suddenly a silent crack, and he was gone ... hell and devil!!! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_devil.gif) (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)   But I have searched and finally my eagle eyes also found him on the floor so that I can glue it again. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Therefore, I am glad, it had can be really much worse.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Bubbinski on 04/27/2013 08:07 PM
Good work on your repairs!  Look forward to the finished product.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/27/2013 08:55 PM
Thanks for your nice words, but the finishing of the complete Launch Pad will still be a long way ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/30/2013 04:44 PM
Hello all together now, here is the next update.

In addition to this modification of the SRB holes, is yet another important thing I must consider now but for a suitable positioning of 1:144 stack, which I recently soon had touched on: the location and size of the TSM's. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[color=blue][color=blue][/color][/color]) 

My guess was that the 1:160 TSM's of the paper kit would not fit so good from size or visually to the 1:144 stack. This concerns both the TSM height and thus the transition at the intersection of the TSM Umbilical Plate (i.e., the "plug") to the Ground umbilical attach point of the Orbiter (with the matching "socket") as the position or the distance of the TSM's of the orbiter wings.

Therefore I've provisorily put together the orbiter and taped on her back of the ET-SRB combi pack in order to perform a more accurate fitting test with the complete stack for better checkup of the location conditions. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  Because if necessary would have to Yes in the SSME hole and his Blast shield possibly even minor adjustments are made, what I want to avoid as possible. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

And so the temporary stack looks now:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9295/20106904.jpg)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9863/43459643.jpg)

And so much to the proportions of the stack and the TSM's, that look already rather small compared to the stack, I find, isn't it? The size of the stack in comparison to the MLP appears rather too powerful by the vertical perspective. Regardless the difference in the scale of 1:144/1:160 already cannot be overlooked, but which is now a compromise solution. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6919/41662399.jpg)

And thus to the intersection of the Orbiter "socket" (red border) and the TSM "plug" (green lines) of the Umbilical attach point that now really are not at the same height level.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1746/32569043.jpg)

And the red arrow is intended to alert already on another important reference line for the TSM's height, is clearer in the next picture.

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5007/90514941.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you can see, the top of the TSM is located on a contour with the wing marking in the preceding image (red arrow), and the umbilical interface between orbiter and TSM runs approximately horizontal. As a result the 1:160 TSM's are too low for the stack to my liking, because the stack is also still at about 1.5 mm higher by the missing SRB shields blast. What do you think about? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif) 

Therefore, I have put a 1:144 TSM (H=65 mm) from the Revell Kit compared to the left, and as you can see, whose upper edge ranges about to the marked reference line, which is even better to see in the next picture.

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3482/31762151.jpg)

If I wanted to use the 1:160 TSM (H=57 mm), I would have to increase his height to approx. 8 mm what but visually likely should retire because of the printed details (door, pipes, etc.), isn't it? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_eek2.gif)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4778/99210027.jpg)

As you can see in this picture, the TSM stands also slightly too close to the orbiter wing and would have to move a little bit further forward, what must be taken into account to the SSME Blast shield. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6073/70230711.jpg)

And so now the stack looks from the back, and as you can see, the SRB's fit now much better over the modified exhaust holes and have sufficient amount of space. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4246/74558698.jpg)

Now, I am however looking forward to your impressions and opinions. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

P.S.:
And here is a small addition about the TSM's for all Space shuttle technology freaks, a fantastic NASA HD video

"Ascent - Commemorating Shuttle" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W2VygftZSCs)

with phenomenal slow motion video sequences, by the way my favorite Shuttle video!!!

Among other things, you can see the full launch process and as of 9:34 the amazing function of the TSM umbilical mechanism in action, taken from inside of a TSM and much more interesting pics ... enjoy it!!! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

The following image shows principle drawings of the swivel operation of this brilliant device:

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7483/p10y.jpg)
Source: NASA

The TSM umbilical plates attached to the Shuttle right next to both OMS pods and when the stack rocks back and the SRB's ignite, the umbilical plates disappear into the TSM in the blink of an eye. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/01/2013 01:38 PM
In the meantime, I see the things so:

The 1:160 TSM's are a little bit to short and stand too close to the orbiter wings. Because their distance is determined through the gaps in the 1:160 SSME Blast shield, I removed the SSME Blast shield what was going on without any problems. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  This allows the location of TSM's can be adapted on the orbiter wings and to the SSME Blast chamber.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1954/73894579.jpg)

For the alignment of the TSM's one can orientate well in this picture and determine the distances.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6018/91143082.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you can see, the TSM's need only slightly further forward to move.

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8463/21467041.jpg)

And therefore I'll build the TSM's once more in 1:144 by using the Paper kit templates. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3456/87564534.jpg)

Now I've checked everything again and therefore I've drawn a blue centerline between the SRB Hold down posts as well as an outline of 1:160 SSME Blast chamber.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9527/67410053.jpg)

And as you can see, the dimensions seem to be almost perfect, and everything looks good. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9673/96508893.jpg)

And as you can still see, the new 1:144 TSM's must be moved only a few millimeters further outward from the blue SSME hole outline.

But this has still enough time, first I'll finish the renovation of the SRB holes and then the new installation of the Blast shields and Hold down posts, and then we see ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/01/2013 07:58 PM
MANFRED,

  It sure looks as tho you have a good handle on the photo references compaired to your build. I like the detail of Davids TSM's so to use the paper TSM at 144 scale will I think add so much more to the overall look of the project. Very nice compromise.

  The video is just an outstanding reference of the small areas that you are working on at the moment, really great to watch you guys, please take the time to see.

  Just really great work, Manfred.

Richo, crawler 114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/02/2013 07:39 AM
Hi Richo,

thanks for your nice comment, I'll use the paper TSM's (1:144). This is again slightly more effort, but it will show a better overall look (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

And the video is absolutly OVERWHELMING!!! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif) I like it very much!!!

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/07/2013 09:22 PM
Hi all together,

So, after smaller filling works with putty the SRB Blast Chambers could now be repapered. It's a good thing that I still have the 1:144 original templates from the paper kit. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/33/41196734m.jpg)

The side walls had to be cut while the modified length and the height be reduced,

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6179/35732816.jpg)

otherwise the repapering was no feat. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2484/19132922.jpg)

And so I already feel much better like. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/421/57965025.jpg)

Next the Blast shields have to be installed,

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6034/74489818.jpg)

and the Hold down posts I can use again, I guess. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3518/27920266.jpg)

Oh well, so slowly uphill again! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/09/2013 06:18 PM
MANFRED,

  I just had to watch the shuttle video again. It's so easy to feel the power of the launch in this video, super impressive.

  So, the SRB blast chambers, from the photos, look like you really had no problems in the first place. That is, it looks like you did no repairs at all to the project. I think that is a good sign of a master model maker at work. A person can not tell anything was ever wrong. Just really an outstanding job of correcting the oversight. Great work!!

  Install the blast shields and hold down posts and your back on track. I think the paper TSM's are the way to go with this. maybe a little more work but the end results will look much better.

  Now get back to the water bags! We are all haveing a great time watching your strugle and just really want to see more, I just can't get enough.

RichO, 114

 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/09/2013 09:03 PM
Hello Richo,

I have to look this stunning video at now and again, it just goes under that skin, madness, can't get enough of this feeling!!! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Thanks for your nice compliments, I'll be back on track soon, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/BANGHEAD2.jpg) I'll never give up!!! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

And when it's time to get back to the water bags, I have to make them just a little bit wider only ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/11/2013 09:28 AM
Hi All,

After rebuilding of the SRB Blast Chambers I tested now the position of the stack, and I am completely satisfied with the result. The stack is actually perfectly across the width of the SRB holes and is also sufficient space for the SSWS pipes. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5334/87982881.jpg)

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4103/28636912.jpg)

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2751/24772662.jpg)

That's why I could now again devote the Blast shields. But first I have planned only the SRB-Blast shields. The SSME-Blast shield I will install only after completion of the SRB-Blast shields and the final installation of the Hold down posts, when I know exactly where the TSM's ultimate will stand next to the orbiter. Therefore, at the substruction of the SRB-blast shields I've omitted the approaches of the SSME-Blast shields that later reset. For the substruction I used 1.5 mm strong cardboard.

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/443/20104542.jpg)

For the coverage of the substruction I had to customize the 1:144-template according to my modified geometry, which is why I have divided it into several parts.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5691/18829674.jpg)

That was something difficult with folds set to on the sides, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5847/32180453.jpg)

but after everything was glued the part looked quite well and fit well so that it can be glued tomorrow. This is followed by then gluing the top coverage, which I must customize in the same way and have to divide.

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6365/54934883.jpg)

As I've said, the SSME-Blast shield remains only aside. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5331/55262709.jpg)

Painstakingly the squirrel subsist, but the worst is over for the happiness ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/14/2013 06:22 AM
Next the covers were to suit according to the modified blast shield base, divided and then glued.

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5741/bscover.jpg)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1830/bsmcover.jpg)

In order to determine the correct height for the Hold down posts in the holes, I glued times one of the four cones, which sits on the top of the Hold down supports and are screwed with the SRB aft skirt keeping the entire stack. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  While sitting the rear two connectors under this red caps,

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7194/holddown5.jpg)
Source: NASA

missing these caps on the front glands.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6453/holddown21.jpg)  (http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9017/holddown11.jpg)   
Source: NASA

During Lift-off the nuts of this four glands that accidentally sitting under the steel sleeves with a bursting charge (see the red dot), are off blown up on both SRBs and thus release the stack. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

On this image one of the cone from the paper kit is to see that my opinion but would be too weak without amplification, to stabilize the model stack. Therefore, I will strengthen them through the plastic tip of the pen, that almost have the appropriate dimensions, and of which I have organized eight piece me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2658/hpostkuli.jpg)

With the paper cone on the Hold down support I have made a fitting, that fits quite well both the position and the height.

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1349/hpostv.jpg)

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8412/hposth.jpg)

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6394/hpostv1.jpg)

Now I have only the hold down support again to glue in the holes and then prepare the eight tapered tips for the SRB mounts. Then the SRBs on the aft skirt support points are provided with a small hole, and in the cone top, matching steel pins as "Pin" to the recording are each pasted as a counterpart. And the stack should be on these mounts then sufficiently stable and upright, I hope at least. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)
 
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1088/hposth1.jpg)

As far as for today. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/14/2013 08:27 PM
MANFRED:

  It looks as tho you are back on track with your project!! A few minor adjustments and we are all off to the next step with you! Great job.

  Looking at your build I decided to dig out my revell model kit and, I had forgotten that when I acquired my kit from an estate sale, that my kit contained two shuttle stacks in the box but just one launch tower. So now I have one shuttle stack to play with and one to build! Yay.

  The blast chambers look great, keep working!

  RichO 114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/15/2013 10:28 AM
Richo,
 
Thanks for the encouraging nice words. Soon I'll have again reached the old status before my hair stood on end ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Have you really the old Revell Launch tower kit 4911 (tower with shuttle stack and Mini-MLP) or 4910  (only tower)?

I fully agree with you, one kit for testing is always a great opportunity for experiments, so you are in a fortunate position like me! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

I also have two Shuttle stacks, one from the Revell kit (4911) and one from Airfix, which looks more delicate in details. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: jkumpire on 05/15/2013 11:17 AM
This is the first time I've ever been in this Forum, and I am amazed at your work, and how you keep your desk so clean!

That is marvelous work you are doing I wish I had a thimblefull of the skill you have roma847 to do quality work like this. I have neither the dexterity nor patience to complete a project like you are doing. I will be checking in again to see your continued progress. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/15/2013 12:23 PM
Thanks for your nice words, I am always pleased when other my work like. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif) My drive and motivation are the desire for modeling and the joy of the detail, everything else comes from alone, but only practice makes perfect. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

BTW, for taking photos I have to clean my desk of course! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/15/2013 10:41 PM
Hello guys,

and here is the next update.

Before gluing the SRB-blast shields I want to paste this time the SRB supports, in order to have a solid reference plane for their fixation on the same height level. And to make exactly the glue, I have made a template me for this.

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/346/schablonesupports.jpg)

As a result, all supports should have the same height.

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8930/schablonesupports1.jpg)

On the support then the Hold down posts sit, that I'll make from the ballpoint pen tips.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7836/schablonesupportskegel.jpg)

And this time the base plates on the SRB aft skirts sit directly over the marks for the Hold down posts.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3476/srbsupportshinten.jpg)

Thus the centre positions for the rear supports could be drawn now in order to being able to paste this by using the template also.

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1860/srbsupportsseite.jpg)

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6840/srbsupportsvorn.jpg)

And all eight supports sitting here in place, and all at the same height. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img163/7801/supports.jpg)

Thereon stands now the SRB-ET combination for fitting, that looks pretty neat.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8798/supportssrbvorn.jpg)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/841/supportssrbhinten.jpg)

Tomorrow then continues with the Hold down post tips.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/16/2013 01:27 PM
MANFRED,

  I really liked your idea of the template, good photo of how to use. The pen tip idea for the SRB Support Cones was a really great idea of mixing materials, I like very much!  I really love how this fix has turned out. The placement of the elements and how all the parts are linning up nicely, good job!

  Yes I have the old revell kit 4911, mini-MLP and all, just with about half of another kit included, great find.

  I'll be back to work on the pipe chords today, I'll post again soon, Thanks

  RichO114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/16/2013 09:16 PM
Thanks Richo for the kind words of appreciation.  ;)  Only the eyes must be open, everywhere there are suggestions and tips for solutions, nothing is impossible. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

And here is a further  update.

Now the ballpoint pen had to believe it, because their tips actually have the appropriate dimensions for the Hold down posts. ;D The Dremel with the mini saw already stands by.

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2219/kulis.jpg)

So let's go and down with rubber handles, so that one can nicely cut behind the tip.

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2962/kulis1.jpg)

And as quick as a flash were already sawed off the tips, such a waste of material ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif) but the end justifies the means for the loved hobby.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4336/kulisspitzen.jpg)

And now sanding the ground a little smooth, and already is the raw form.

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2416/kulisspitzen1.jpg)

And here only a test fit on the support,

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/187/kulisspitzensupports.jpg)

and the SRBs already time provisionally put on it. And as you can see, this fits together quite well.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9131/kulisspitzensupportssta.jpg)

That's why I was now able with a clear conscience the SRB blast shields to glue up final, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/728/blastshields.jpg)

the image more and more completes, no comparison more with the demolition images.(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/763/blastshieldsspitzen.jpg)

And now everything looks again like before the surgery. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2836/blastshieldsspitzenstac.jpg)

Next the tips must now be modified further, therefore plastic rods are pasted into with thin wire pins as "Bolts".(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Lar on 05/16/2013 09:44 PM
Those 8 pens should be proud of their sacrifice!

(given that they are imprinted on the barrels, they look like free pens anyway... well, not free to the company that bought them but free to you...)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/17/2013 10:26 AM
Yes, I have seen them in a hotel and received all pens as a present. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/21/2013 12:14 AM
Before modification of the tips I've been looking once again for photos, on which the position of the SRB Aft skirts on the Hold-down posts can more accurately be detected. Mine is still not clear whether the SRB Aft skirts are on a level with the SRB Blast shields or slightly higher.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)  But now I have found a photo from the VAB and one can see, that the front SRB Aft skirts nearly lay on the same level with the Blast shields. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029120.jpg)
Source: www.flickr.com (S. Patlan)

Then I looked at even closer the Hold-down posts on the SRB supports, to see whether something scratch-building is possible. Somehow I feel like back on such things after the stupid demolition work. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/stupid.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029121.jpg)
Source: NASA

As you can see the cone tops sit still on small bottom bases, it certainly seems to indicate. The red caps are small Blast shields, which are shielding the "explosive charges" (NASA Standard Detonator) in the Frangible Nuts of the SRB Hold-down Studs. These blast shields are missing on the front Hold-down posts, why ever. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)

The drawing in the following image shows the structure of a complete Hold-down Assembly.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029122.jpg)
Source: NASA

Inspired therefrom, I'll try to reproduce the upper cover plate (Aft Skirt Shoe) and the side fixtures (Shoe Retainer Mechanism). (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Here are some parts that I need for this. I've punched me the bottom bases (8 mm) with a hollow punches from 1.5 mm sheet. For the studs, I'll use 0.5 mm brass rod,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029123.jpg)

and for the Aft skirt shoe a rectangular profile 4x1mm, which is sitting up on the top of the cone in which I will paste a 3.3 mm plastic rod. The side fixtures could be indicated by 1 mm plastic rods.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029124.jpg)

Of course separated connecting bolts, for what you could use sheathed copper wire (1.2 mm) would look better. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029125.jpg)

Then I still somehow have to mount the small grey Blast shield, the red painted shields like on the photo was probably only used on later missions. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

I'll try this assembly group then tomorrow. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/21/2013 06:58 PM
MANFRED,

  Good luck on your assembly of the SRB Hold Down Clamps. I like the idea of red blast covers for your cones, just to give a little color to the build. However if they were painted grey for STS-6...

  I'm curious how you will handle the Shoe Retainer Mechanism and Hold Down Stud details. They seem quite prominate on the cones in the photos. I just love watching people come up with solutions for this sort of thing, especialy mixers, you can never tell what they might come up with. Pen Tips?

  Today is cutting out of the cornner parts for me. I'ts raining here all day, so lots of cutting.

  Good Luck, RichO 114

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/21/2013 08:57 PM
Hi Richo,

thanks for the nice words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

Unfortunately, there are only too little good photos of the STS-6 mission. I have found some, but there is no photo, on which one can see the SRB supports with the Hold-down posts. And therefore it is not yet known whether the small blast shields are red or grey.  ::)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/22/2013 09:44 AM
But there is also another problem.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  When fastening the SRBs on their supports and hold-down posts, I must note that the stack cannot stand without a prop under the orbiter and therefore needs a support. When the stack is built it'll have some weight and the orbiter will make it heavier on one side.

The eight pins (0.5 mm) in the hold-down posts serve only the fixation of the stack on the SRB supports. I'll chose the slightly larger bores (0.8 mm) in the SRB aft skirt hold-down posts only in order to be able to thread the stack better over these eight pins. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

A solution for the support of the stack, I've been thinking a long and I have some ideas for scratch-building it.

First of all I imagine a horizontal support bar, which runs through both TSMs and the orbiter, in the height of the umbilicals. The bar could be one-piece and continuously, or I could imagine two shorter rods, which are inserted from both outer faces through the TSMs into the orbiter. These bars are likely to be hardly to see in the TSM walls. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

This solution could also work, if the TSMs are not glued on the MLP deck, but if the TSMs with this support bars through the umbilicals are only placed near to the orbiter and support him so. Then, you have to find a solution to the TSM SSWS pipes. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5570/tsmumbilicalpfeile.jpg)
Source: NASA

A second solution would also be possible: (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

In both SRBs bottoms threaded rods are screwed from below, ranging through the SRB holes a few millimeters over the MLP ground. On these threaded rods a hold-down clamp made of a metal strip (85x5x2 mm) is screwed with nuts. Then you might not need a support rod through the TSMs if the orbiter would be fixed by the double umbilical connections. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) 

Currently I tend to the first solution with one or two rods in the TSMs. 

Or are there other proposals from you too? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Lar on 05/22/2013 01:44 PM
What about using the closeout room to hold the orbiter from tipping backwards? That's assuming you are building the service structures, though. It would apply a fair bit of torque to the tower.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: OV135 on 05/22/2013 02:21 PM
You could extend the TSM attach points to where it touches the orbiter go into an L shape with the bottom of the L go under and hold up the orbiter. This prevents it from tipping forward. 

As to tipping back. I was thinking of drilling holes into where the SRB hold down points are. Once that's done you add pints to the hold down posts themselves. You line up the pieces and the posts anchor the stack to the MLP.  I mean this fits with the RL photos of the bolts holding down the boosters to the pad.  As in this diagram.

http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029122.jpg
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/22/2013 11:23 PM
What about using the closeout room to hold the orbiter from tipping backwards? That's assuming you are building the service structures, though. It would apply a fair bit of torque to the tower.

That's right, this would be also a possibility, a solid connection between the White room at the end of the Orbiter Access Arm (OAA) of the Launch tower (FSS) and the orbiter.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3618/oaapfeile.jpg)
Source: NASA

But this would mean that the stack should always be connected with the OAA and could not stand independent on the MLP without any kind of support, what I but also does not want to exclude. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/22/2013 11:36 PM
You could extend the TSM attach points to where it touches the orbiter ...

And this is the way I want to go, because I think that the lateral support rods from outside the TSMs through the Umbilical interface into the orbiter seems to be the best solution for stabilisation of the stack.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029131.jpg)
Source: NASA

I think, because there already some pipes and cables run through this interface, the support rods will hardly attract attention. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029130.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Lar on 05/23/2013 12:23 AM
But this would mean that the stack should always be connected with the OAA and could not stand independent on the MLP without any kind of support, what I but also does not want to exclude. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)

Yep.  Your idea of running pins through the TSMs is much better. Especially if you can make the pins removable so the stack can be removed if you wanted to :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/23/2013 07:36 AM
Yep, that's my intention and all what I want. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 05/23/2013 12:23 PM
What about adding weight to the bottom of the SRBs and/or ET to shift the center of gravity of the stack so it stays verticle by itself?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/23/2013 12:56 PM
These are all possible approaches, they must be only be realizable on the model. You will understand that soon if you can see what small dimensions it is. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

In particular the unfavourable ratio of the nearly point-shaped SRB stands on the Hold-down posts to the considerable height of the stack is the absolute k.o. criterion, and therefore the danger that could topple the stack is too large. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/25/2013 01:02 PM
MANFRED,

  I like the rods through the TSM into the tail also. Most people would never see it, good call!

  RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/27/2013 02:42 PM
Hi Richo,

I fully agree with you, this will be the most viable solution. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

And here is the next update, and so back to various detail work on the SRB supports and their Hold-down posts.
Because the  Aft skirt hold-down posts  of the SRBs with 2 mm are very narrow,  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  I have carefully pre-drilled the holes for the bolts (0.5 mm) for the fixing of the stack with the gimlet first with 0.5 mm,

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8679/srbbohrer.jpg)

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4306/srbdraht.jpg)

and drilled then for easier threading of the stack to 0.8 mm diameter.

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8142/srbbohrungen1.jpg)

And the Hold-down posts are constructed from these parts.

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6392/hpaufbau1.jpg)

The cone tips get cores of a 3.3 mm rod with a 0.5 mm hole for the reception of the bolt pins (0.5 mm). The cone tips sit on a base plate (1.5 mm) and receive above as the Aft skirt shoe  a small plate from sheet 4x4x1 mm.

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3897/hpaufbauf.jpg)

This is now such a pre-assembled body for the Hold-down post (left) and next to it an attempt for the side locking pin of the  Shoe retainer mechanism, which however still not convinced me. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4372/bolzen1.jpg)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1533/bolzen2.jpg)

Since this solution with the coated brass wire (blue) seems manufactured bit too time-consuming from processing, I further considered and once cut the rods. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/249/rundstabsge.jpg)

Therefore here now another attempt made of plastic with a square profile (1 mm), with a glued rod (0,8 mm) as bolt.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1909/bolzen3.jpg)

This allows then but easier to produce and I like even better, as you can see on this picture. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9844/hpbolzen.jpg)

And so I will also build now the remaining seven Hold-down posts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And most recently the small Blast shields come then to the top of the rear Hold down posts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: DaveS on 05/27/2013 04:19 PM
To increase the stability you could add the shear weight of the SRB propellant. This will move the c.g of the stack towards the SRBs and the holddown posts just like on the real vehicle. Not even fully loaded the orbiter+ET approaches the total weight of the two SRBs.

Currently you have the majority of the weight in the Orbiter, when this should not the be the case. This leads to the stack tilting backwards.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/28/2013 01:40 PM
Thanks Dave for your comments. That is quite right, the change in the weighting of the stack should improve its stability. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) This prevents but not the tilting danger of the stack, especially when vibrations or shocks and therefore the crash risk of the stack is then too large to me without any front support of the orbiter. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

I think in particular the unfavourable ratio of the nearly point-shaped SRB stands to the considerable height of the stack is essential and the absolute k.o. criterion. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

BTW Dave, still another question. Do you know when (up from which STS-?) the small Blast shields at the top of the Holddown posts were red painted instead of gray? I suppose that they were painted grey during the early missions, perhaps STS-6 too?

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3703/holddown8.jpg)  (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9189/holddown51gn.jpg)
Source: NASA  

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/30/2013 08:40 PM
MANFRED

  I am also keeping an eye out for your STS-6 blast shield color. Someone will come across a photo with the correct color, then we will all know.

  Keep up the good work on all the small details, really great!

RichO 114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/02/2013 09:36 PM
Thanks Richo for the nice words, this question is perhaps too specifically, maybe I find even a response. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Now it went a little further with the Hold-down posts again, and the little things keep pretty one, if you can not hold on building.

These are the necessary items for the remaining seven Hold-down posts, until on the lateral retaining bolts of the Shoe retainer mechanism.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029319.jpg)

After the cone tips were shortened to the required height, the rods (3.3 mm) were cut and received a through hole (0.5 mm). Then they were pasted in the cone tips and then glued onto the bases.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029320.jpg)

On the top the small plates (Aft skirt shoe) were then glued, and yet the 0.5 mm bolts were glued into the holes.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029321.jpg)

So, that's about it first time today. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029322.jpg)

Now missing only the side locking bolts, which should follow tomorrow.(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/04/2013 12:15 AM
MANFRED,

  Thanks for the encoragement, so many tiny parts to deal with. I just have to keep going to get things ready for the material I ordered.

  Your hold down posts are looking great, I really want to see how these turn out. Keep up the great work!

Richo 114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/04/2013 09:15 PM
Thanks Richo for the nice words, I'll try to give my best. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Since the parts for the side locking bolts are only such short stubs of about 2,5 - 3,5 mm, it is better, if only together sticks the profiles, 

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1533/bolzen2.jpg)

and cuts only after drying on length, so this is really easier. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4372/bolzen1.jpg)

Now the stubs only on both sides must be glued,

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1909/bolzen3.jpg)

and then they are available for painting.

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9849/hp1v.jpg)

But before there is another alignment test on the support, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2046/hp2vv.jpg)

and so the Boosters are standing on it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6931/hpmlp1.jpg)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8964/hpmlp3.jpg)

And if the Hold-downs are first then painted and will stick firmly to the supports, then I can breathe again. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3302/hpmlp7.jpg)

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3223/hpmlp4.jpg)

As far as for today. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/05/2013 05:41 PM
MANFRED,

  The hold down posts turned out so cool, great idea with the pen tips. Now off to the paint department with them. Thanks for the photo, I am constantly amazed about how frikin' big and massive everything about the space program is, just amazing.

  RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/06/2013 12:58 PM
Thanks Richo for the encouraging words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Next, the hold downs are painted, and I would be glad if they would stick to the correct position on the SRB supports. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

And now I will turn again to the TSMs, but this time in 1:144, otherwise the same procedure like ever in 1:160. 

The TSM parts look on the Paper kit in such a way:

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3976/tsmpaperkit1.jpg)

In the building guidance all steps are illustrated in detail.

(http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/5175/tsmanleitung.jpg)

Although both TSM's from the outside form look almost alike, they differ nevertheless in some details, which will still have to be seen. I began first with the right TSM, by which the pipes for the liquid oxygen (LOX) run.

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3627/tsmpaperkit2.jpg)

As next step I have to make reinforcement Sub-Supports for the TSM cover, for which I will use Balsa, to get the required thickness. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/06/2013 06:01 PM
GO MANFRED, GO!!

  And watch out for exploding ticket machines.

RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/11/2013 06:00 PM
Thanks Richo,

the show must go on. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

So, in the meantime the TSM covers are cut and the Balsa cores prepared.

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1364/balsakerne.jpg)

Here are the glued-together cores (1:144), which can now be wrapped, compared of one of the predecessor TSMs (1:160). (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6681/balsakerne1.jpg)

Next, the Hold-down posts for the painting were being prepared,

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7836/hpvorlackierung.jpg)

and this is their new look that should anything be aged after installation. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2465/hpnachlackierung.jpg)

Now, I will make a further fitting on the Hold-downs with the SRB-ET assembly, and then set its final position on the SRB supports. To do this I'll still just in case try on the lower connection struts between the SRBs and ET and check whether the lateral distance or the location may still something changed. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9885/hpmlp.jpg)

And then we see ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/14/2013 06:05 PM
MANFRED,

  Once again your build looks just great! ;D  The SRB hold downs look really nice with the pen tips painted and the placement, looks like they are part of the kit. For some reason I am quite pleased with the balsa cores for the TSM's. You have cut and cleaned them very nicely and altho we wont see them again they do look nicely sanded and crisp cuts, good work.

  Keep posting we love what you are building!!

RichO 114
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: DaveS on 06/14/2013 06:16 PM
The SRB HHPs look great! There's just one minor thing: The brackets, called the shoes, are really rectangular and not square as you have them right now. They're the same shape as the bottom face of the HDPs on the Aft Skirt.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/14/2013 08:00 PM
Thanks Richo for your nice words, but at the junctions of the balsa cores I have to do still a little putty filling and sanding, because there are still a few scars that are not visible in this photo. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)  I'll post some pics tomorrow. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Thanks Dave for your kind words and comments, I fully agree with you. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

With this trick only the bearing surface for the SRB aft skirt shoes on the HDPs should be enlarged slightly for better standing of the stack.

BTW, if the stack will then be standing on the HDPs, you can no longer see anyway that the shoes are not rectangular but square.(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: yorky10 on 06/15/2013 07:49 AM
This is looking good. Keep up the hard work. This will look amazing :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/18/2013 09:16 PM
Thanks Yorky for the nice words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

And so back to my building site, even though the pretty weather can distract one. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

I will push the fitting of the stack on the HDPs once back, and it continues with the TSMs. Because at the junctions of the balsa cores I had to do still a little putty filling and sanding, because there were still a few gaps. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4553/q7kr.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8937/3g49.jpg)

Then were glued the coverings side over side, for comparison aside is standing a 1:160 TSM again.

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5771/ks92.jpg)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1858/ok85.jpg)

Here are already the parts for the ventilation flaps, I separately will produce, which become easier as the appendages on the sides would only disturb. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/stupid.gif)

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8558/adu6.jpg)

Pointing to some details, such as doors, control panels, hatches, etc., I made extra copies and then put on these parts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5955/lmqk.jpg)

So these details stand out but still something more, such as for example the doors, which improves the appearance, I hope so. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2268/kmud.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img835/9733/h687.jpg)

And the "big" TSMs on the MLP look like now.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2716/xlim.jpg)

And here again compared the 1:160 TSMs in front of the 1:144 TSMs. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8205/vc41.jpg)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/19/2013 07:44 PM
MANFRED,

  This is so outstanding and cool I can barely stand it!!

  So, now about to the point of where you wear befor the discovery of the blast chamber incident and the very impressive Frankenstein recovery operation. As you know I love the details and I'm excited for you to continue with the small stuff like the added doors and details that add shadow lines and back to the wire bending.

  Keep up the great work, I'm with you!

RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/19/2013 10:52 PM
Thanks Richo for your kind comments, there will be a lot of other nice details, I'll try to scratch-build, let you surprise. I think we have almost the same preference, isn't it? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/24/2013 05:17 PM
MANFRED,

  I love to scratch build and all the little details. I know we have the same feeling about this. I look forward to your scratch build suprises and I can safely say that we all love watching what you are doing here!! keep up the great work!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/26/2013 06:50 AM
Hi Richo,

thanks for your nice compliments, you are right, the tiny details are the salt in the soup of the modelers! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

After the two TSMs were finished, it was now scratch-building some of these details (arrows), are to see in the next two pictures.

Here the left LH2-TSM is first to see which among other things runs the LH2-pipe. In contrast to the right LOX-TSM has this hood-like sheet metal hood as upper end, some ventilation boxes/shutters and holding elements, and electrical installations (green). To come still ladders (red) and various pipes (blue).

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029698.jpg)
Source: NASA

The right TSM receives similar details up on the missing sheet metal hood.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029699.jpg)
Source: NASA

Now here is the somewhat tricky sheet metal hood, first without the lateral 7 pipes which receives a surface made of cardboard to reinforce. The lateral pipe bundle I will later separately scratch-build from Evergreen round profiles (0.5 mm). (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029700.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029701.jpg)

And this is the finished hood after the lateral arches were carefully glued. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) Behind the 7 round profiles for the piping, in which probably run electrical cable are provided.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029702.jpg)

And thus, the LH2-TSM is finally under the hood... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/grin.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029703.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029704.jpg)

Now these are the items for the ventilation boxes and the associated Balsa reinforcement,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029705.jpg)

the flaps in the folded state with railings are provided so that during service and maintenance works no one downwards can fall. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) But these flaps remain closed but on my MLP.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029706.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029707.jpg)

In the meantime, the reinforcements in the boxes were glued,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029708.jpg)

and the flaps cut out,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029709.jpg)

which were glued on separately after the installation of the boxes.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029710.jpg)

Next I want to retouch something somewhat disputed edges, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) but that was for today. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/03/2013 03:26 PM
MANFRED,

  To bad about the safety flaps, Your so good with small details I would loved to see how you would have built these.

  Keep up the good detail work, it looks really great!!

RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/03/2013 09:01 PM
Thanks Richo for your encouraging words, rather let the flaps closed. There are still plenty of other nice details ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

So, now it is the details on the left LH2-TSM to continue. Because I want to try first time, to detail the seven pipes on the side a little bit more, as this in the paper kit is only hinted at. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

The pipes are located on three retaining strips and are fastened at three positions in each case offset with pipe clamps.

Here again the overview picture:

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7237/az28.jpg)
Source: NASA

These are the required items, 0.5 mm rod profiles for the pipes and rectangular beams 0,8 x 0,2 mm for the retaining strips.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/2772/quph.jpg)

For it the seven rod profiles were attached first side by side on strips of tape,

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6289/xlhl.jpg)

and glued on it then the three retaining strips.

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1275/74rk.jpg)

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6264/5a04.jpg)

Then the retaining strips were cut to length and the points for the clamps marked what looks but not bad.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7753/mbz2.jpg)

So far so good, but how will the clamps now are built best and glued?(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)  This, in first, I wanted to use thin insulation tube, halve them and glue then small pieces on the rods.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9329/c366.jpg)

This tiny crumbs could keep but hardly with the tweezers, let alone position on the tiny glued points, so that half of them jumped off me and I eventually gave up this variant.   ???

Then I tried to use a thin flat strip 0,25 x 0,5 mm for the clamps. For this experiment, I have prepared me a bunch of extra samples and considering me to gently dab each second rod with adhesive and it then to glue the strips.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3023/s71j.jpg)

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8937/0u2o.jpg)

Then I wanted to cut the strips in the gaps with the razor blade, and so should the clamps on every second rod stay then, at least in theory.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

This variant was also not the yellow of the egg but unfortunately,  because the strips on the neighbor's profile glued or when cutting back have freed themselves from.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/stupid.gif)

So I then tried, is to cut small 1 mm strips and individually to glue them, what to see in the left row. It was also quite stressful, but at least passably to handle. ::)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3549/mpfk.jpg)

After that, I wanted to see just the result in painted condition what looks.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7064/hjpp.jpg)

I think that one might almost satisfied so that, if you could align the clamp strips still somewhat straighter and smoother. Visually, the sublime structure already in as the clamps set on the first picture corresponds to, or what do you think?(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

Or but I spare me throughout this stressful action and the clamps to interpret after painting only with a darker color stroke which in any case would be less.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

It looks like I will have to sleep probably still a night over it ...
(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zzz.gif)

Then but ever a forecast on thicker pipes, running around to the TSM, which I have to bend next, as the example of 1:160 TSM from that time reveals.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6417/lxbq.jpg)

Well then bye! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/04/2013 01:07 PM
MANFRED,

  I bet you can guess what I might think about the clamp strips. I do like the solution in the last photo, anything that adds a nice shadow line visualy would almost certainly be better than a simple paint line. Consider the MLP kit its self, the detail is simply printed onto the surface, not bad looking, but your addition of the styrene strips adds so much more 3D detail.

  BTW nice to see the wire bending again. My next chapter of the crawler build is the wiring chapter and I just can't visualy see flat paper substituting for round wires. I will attempt to cut these out tho, but really I think I will replace with all wire bending.

  Anyway I hope you came to a solution with sleeping on it for a while. Good Luck, and nice building. it always looks great!

  RichO
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/04/2013 10:09 PM
RICHO,

I can fully agree with you in all points, (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif) and I bet you can guess what variant I'm going to build after one night's sleep ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Yep, that's why I will also scratch-build the tiny clamp strips, cause it will certainly look better than only simple paint lines. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 07/06/2013 01:22 PM
Manfred,

This is a little late probably, but here is a close up view of the hold down bolts from the Atlantis exhibit of the SRBs you go through to get into the Atlantis theatre to see the orbiter.  Not real components, but the company went to a great deal of effort to display things "correctly".  it may or may not be of any help to you.

and a view of the entrance.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/06/2013 10:51 PM
Thanks Mike for your nice pics from the Atlantis exhibition, but I know how the real Hold-down posts look like. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029295.jpg) (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029015.jpg)
Source: NASA

My approach for scratch-building these HDPs is a little simpler, but looks similar to this, you will see it later. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/08/2013 05:15 PM
Here is an update of the TSM-pipes!
I have something clarified the pipe clamps. They are now merely  0.75 mm x 0.5 mm . (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/stupid.gif) so that the tiny pieces have all nearly the same length, I had to build a small template, because from the hollow hand with the cutter, which was not to make. For this business, you need then already a magnifying glass and a sturdy block to correctly set on the cutter. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3672/yb97.jpg)

To cut the length of the clamps I put at 0.75 mm a piece of styrene Strip, where I've attached the cutter. And then went off merrily on it, 21 times, and it was done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029938.jpg)

At gluing of the clamps, it should be noted that these are offset in the double rows always to a line. The handling of this tiny pieces was then but a pretty tricky business. First I tried with the tweezers, but also so that it does not really worked because the clamps are just too tiny. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  Finally I have the snippets with the tip of the cutter gently pressed so that they stick remained, what has kept the short transport route.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8416/kgyd.jpg)
 
Under the magnifying glass was then successively each a mini dab Superglue spotted up on the bond place and gently removed the clamp. For the alignment of the row I used a strip of styrene. So, the location of the respective clamp could be corrected quickly anything, and finished the first two double rows. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7492/rcym.jpg)

The top two rows could follow, once looked through a magnifier,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029941.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9724/57ev.jpg)

thus, this tricky part was once done, wow!  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5759/cqvd.jpg)

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9518/1c56.jpg)

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3408/wcz3.jpg)

So far so good, now only the bottom ends of the pipes must be structured. They don't run directly in the ground, but have each before even a bow and run moved diagonally forward,

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9051/5kbc.jpg)
Source: NASA

and have - hard to believe - above the ground once again clamps ...  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/wall.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/09/2013 02:57 PM
MANFRED,

  This looks just outstanding. I myself have developed the same technique for picking up very small parts with the blade tip. Just gently tho, so as not to scar the parts. It seems to work great. Have more fun with all the clamps!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/11/2013 06:50 AM
Thanks Richo for the nice words. Here is further detail work on the LH2-TSM. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Because something is more space by the spreading of the lines after the curved parts, I will make this time the clamps from U-beam 1.2 x 0.8 mm, from which I have cut 0.5 mm wide strips.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7782/8f7l.jpg)

Then it went to bending the elbows, what seemed a stressful matter to be, as the seven pipes in different height and distance must be bent.

But let's go! First of all, the first 90 bend of pipe 2, 4 and 6 with the greater distance from the ground, which further extend outward, and then the pipes 1, 3, 5 and 7, which bends are slightly lower. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5182/832h.jpg)

And then the second 90 bend of the pipes, which was not so easy. Only good, that I have made the pipes slightly longer, and so I could at least still fairly pack them with tweezers. Anyway I had to watch part holding and bending of the pipes, that while the clamps were removed once off.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029977.jpg)

After the pipes were cut then.

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8025/fu9u.jpg)

The clamps shortly above the ground I can glue probably after the final installation of the painted pipes, because the bows repeatedly bend on something and need to be bent again. Therefore, you should use better metal wire for such things which never turns on.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)  I guess because the holes that this possibly could be holding devices for transporting, or know someone?

And now two other details, shown in the following photo (see arrows).

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1941/4a4e.jpg)
Source: NASA

These devices are located on two TSMs on both sides. I guess because the holes that this possibly could be holding devices for transporting, or know someone?  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/dontknow.gif)

First of all the right box-shaped structure, electric cable leads through. Left next to the door underneath the pipe, still seem to be a part of the reserve is located.

It started with a H-profile 3.1 x 2.5 mm to 0.4 mm holes for the cable have been drilled.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2992/rjyw.jpg)

The rest of the parts made of sheet 0.5 mm or 0.3 mm, without many words.

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5244/4k5z.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up029982.jpg)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1840/fvxq.jpg)

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5186/fid7.jpg)

The fitting on the TSM looks already quite good, the proportions match. The cable boxes are initially only hinted at,

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/7501/lxmi.jpg)

but the cable is passed but still somehow through.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4074/wvfn.jpg)

As far as for today, bye! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/15/2013 05:07 AM
MANFRED,

  I'm with you on this one. I'm not sure what these are but my guess would be rigging mounts for crain transporting. Anyway your detailng of these looks good so far, I'm watching to see how you do the rest of the detail on these. Good building.

 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/17/2013 02:04 PM
But I have to make a few more of these lifting lugs, and with this variant they look well and much better than from the Paper kit..  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

I started with the front-panels made of 0,3 mm sheet. The thin slices I have cut out of plastic pipe 1.8 mm diameter and glued.

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2293/zslw.jpg)

Then I wanted to try but also the smaller lifting lugs for a change. After the paper kit the triangles are merely folded and glued together, what would actually suffice. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

But it is also a little different. My parts are made of 0.3 mm sheet that I have glued small thin slices from 1.2 mm insulating sleeve on both sides.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4811/x0sl.jpg)

These smaller lifting lugs are stabilized by narrow struts on both sides, for which I've been using styrene strip 0.5 x 0.25 mm, which I again slightly longer allowed for better handling.

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1165/t2cd.jpg)

And these strips are of course on both sides and standing on their narrow side. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2900/vvfw.jpg)

So first the front side,

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9544/ytxr.jpg)

and then the back side.

(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3271/ldaq.jpg)

And then I have scratch-built the remaining larger lifting lugs including the two reserve lugs, which these TSM details now as far as done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8999/u9oj.jpg)

Before the parts can be mounted now, they need to go in the paint shop.

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4139/jnoi.jpg)

Up coming soon ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 07/18/2013 02:20 AM
WOW. This has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen. You have my respect, Manfred!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/18/2013 12:37 PM
MANFRED,

  I'm with OVERFLOW on this one. This is so cool!

  So I am on the verge of starting my wiring chapter. I still have a little ways to go with the lighting, but I have started to aquire my materials for the metal wires. I thought I should ask you what your opinion is for the best kind of wire to use for ease of bending. As you know the crawler kit has a lot of wire bending to do and any advice to make things easyer would help alot.

I have been doing some experiments with hardened music wire, but is very stiff and a little hard to bend. Any ideas? Thanks.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/18/2013 01:05 PM
WOW. This has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen. You have my respect, Manfred!
Thanks Overflow for your nice compliment! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

Yes, this ingenious technique fascinated me repeatedly on new and inspires me to try scratch-building of new details. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Now you know why I'm so interested in the Atlantis exhibition, maybe I can visit at some point even. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/18/2013 01:19 PM
MANFRED,

  I'm with OVERFLOW on this one. This is so cool!

  So I am on the verge of starting my wiring chapter. I still have a little ways to go with the lighting, but I have started to aquire my materials for the metal wires. I thought I should ask you what your opinion is for the best kind of wire to use for ease of bending. As you know the crawler kit has a lot of wire bending to do and any advice to make things easyer would help alot.

I have been doing some experiments with hardened music wire, but is very stiff and a little hard to bend. Any ideas? Thanks.

Thanks Richo for your nice words too. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Before I can exactly answer your question for the best kind of wires you may use, tell me something about the diameters and lengths you want to install and have to bend, because the bending technique depends on. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 07/18/2013 09:44 PM
WOW. This has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen. You have my respect, Manfred!
Thanks Overflow for your nice compliment! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

Yes, this ingenious technique fascinated me repeatedly on new and inspires me to try scratch-building of new details. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Now you know why I'm so interested in the Atlantis exhibition, maybe I can visit at some point even. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)

Let me know if you do! Maybe we can get the Atlantis retirement thread crew together. :D
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/20/2013 08:30 AM
MANFRED,

  So the wires that I am experimenting with are hardened music wire, and at several diameters. Curently I'm trying 1mm, 0.8mm, and 0.5mm. The finished lengths are up to 30cm and will have some soldering for split routs. Also I will have repeat patterns for group bundles. I think these will be ok tho, I just thought I would ask for your expert opinion. Thanks.

  Now on to the paint department and more wire bending of your own. Have fun!

 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/20/2013 11:48 AM
WOW. This has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen. You have my respect, Manfred!
Thanks Overflow for your nice compliment! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

Yes, this ingenious technique fascinated me repeatedly on new and inspires me to try scratch-building of new details. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Now you know why I'm so interested in the Atlantis exhibition, maybe I can visit at some point even. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)

Let me know if you do! Maybe we can get the Atlantis retirement thread crew together. :D
Yep, if I'll ever visit her Majesty, I'm telling you before in time know, then you can call the crew together, today rather than tomorrow ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

For you lucky devil the exhibition is in front of your door and thus a stone's throw ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/20/2013 12:02 PM
MANFRED,

  So the wires that I am experimenting with are hardened music wire, and at several diameters. Curently I'm trying 1mm, 0.8mm, and 0.5mm. The finished lengths are up to 30cm and will have some soldering for split routs. Also I will have repeat patterns for group bundles. I think these will be ok tho, I just thought I would ask for your expert opinion. Thanks.

  Now on to the paint department and more wire bending of your own. Have fun!

Hi Richo,

I don't know, why do you necessarily want to use hardened music wire, if you also want to bend it? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)

For these small diameters I'd rather use brass wire, which can be bent very well and accurately. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/31/2013 12:11 PM
MANFRED,

  The choise of hardened music wire was simply a matter of availablity. I will have to search around the area here a bit for brass wire.

  Keep building and having fun with your construction project. Thanks
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/31/2013 12:36 PM
Richo,

it should not necessarily be brass wire, steel wire is also suitable, not only hardened! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: crowe-t on 07/31/2013 07:30 PM

Manfred,

You are doing a fantastic job on all this!

Sorry, I realized I hadn't yet posted in this thread.  I'm used to following along at ARC.

Mike.
 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/31/2013 10:07 PM
Mike,

thanks for your kind words of recognition, I'll also on ARC soon again be back in the track. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

BTW, and I hope you too. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 07/31/2013 11:17 PM
Wow, this is just amazing!!  It looks like your miniaturizing the real thing!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/03/2013 08:10 PM
Hi Ronpur50,

thanks for the nice words. Yep, I am trying as close as possible to the real thing. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/03/2013 08:32 PM
So now it can continue after a small breather. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Before the small lifting lugs to the TSMs can be glued, should advance only the pipes come about that at the start of the  SSWS  water the  umbilicals  around sprayed is. This sequence is certainly appropriate, because the lugs when customizing the pipes only in the way would be and would break anyway.

For the construction of pipes I looked again more accurately how they are running, what is actually slightly more complicated due to several arches around the TSMs and additional juvenescence. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Here you can see the two tubes on the LH2-TSM, a thicker and a thinner, which come from the top deck of the MLP and upwards run above the door and the outer side wall.

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8695/7f4a.jpg)
Source: NASA

The tubes reduces to the middle of the the top and have spray nozzles at the end. Shortly before the juvenescence of the thicker pipe there is a lateral branch, also with a nozzle at the end.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1585/uyq5.jpg)
Source: NASA

The reduced thicker pipe runs then above the umbilical opening flap on the back and ends there also behind a tight curve in a nozzle, which is quite good to see on this image.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6716/gzk3.jpg)
Source: NASA

The pipes are sitting on little supports for that I used Evergreen square profile of 1,0 x 0,75 mm above the door and at the other locations square profiles 0,5 x 0,5 mm.

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/374/79tu.jpg)

Here are the supports glued already.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5456/fwsw.jpg)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6420/r0by.jpg)

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6474/cn1r.jpg)

I wanted to use 1.2 mm and 0.5 mm for the diameter of the tubes. A 0.3 mm steel wire is put inside the thinner brass tube as a juvenescence.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1443/lfoh.jpg)

And then I have started with bending and tried in different materials, as well as some variants of bending.

Brass tube (1.0 mm) was relatively easy and above all accurately bent, and so has the advantage that the arches remain unchanged, in contrast to plastic profiles is not bent back. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  Would be another advantage, that as a juvenescence to 0.5 mm could easily insert a corresponding rod. However, the pipe at the 90 bends slightly toward the buckling, what looks visually not so perfect. For the thinner tube (0.5 mm) with the juvenescence to 0.3 mm the effect, however, may be not so serious.
 
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5359/ka6x.jpg)

The flexibility of the plastic rods depends on the respective material. The already grey painted 1.2 mm round profile was relatively brittle and began to break despite local warming in some 90 bends. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)   

The white Evergreen rod is, however, more ductile and did well to turn even without warming. However, the bending points tend to and again something to bend up, as long as the part still not is glued, what but again can be corrected before gluing.

When assembling of bent pipes, can be better to process plastic on plastic (tube/support) because the seat can be adjusted easily. Superglue bonding of the brass tube on the plastic supports must be careful, however, as soon as possible.

Here you can see a test fit,

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1397/69uo.jpg)

and here the bent profile.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7670/3a9v.jpg)

And here all three variants are set across, the grey profile with the breaking points in the middle.

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9536/xauk.jpg)

So far again for the beginning. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/04/2013 11:48 AM
MANFRED,

  This all looks very great. I see your delema about the 1.2mm round grey rod, to easily broken.  I personaly like bend #3. The brass tubing and rod is what I will be using for my crawler build. I like the idea of a slightly more delicate feel with the brass and sharper corners. However we all know that you will make the best judgment and choose what works best for you.

  Keep bending and have fun!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/04/2013 03:17 PM
Thanks Richo for your encouraging words. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

A solid brass rod instead of tube might also be appropriate. Would be just the difficulty to connect the branch pipe and the reduced pipe at the end. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) This can be done easier with plastic parts using normal plastic glue.

What do you think about brass soldering? It is not quite as easy, I think, isn't it?  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif) And then you have to glue the bent pipe with Superglue on the TSM. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

But I hope, I'll find a way out again ... (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 08/06/2013 10:16 PM
Hey Manfred, is this the model you're building?

http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Models-Discovery-Transporter-400-Scale/dp/B00BLG81GM/ref=sr_1_20?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1375827177&sr=1-20&keywords=space+shuttle+models
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/07/2013 09:56 AM
Overflow,

go to the beginning of my thread, then you can find special information about my Launch Pad project. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

This is a finished model of Discovery by Dragon (1:400). (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I'm building the Challenger (STS-6), using the old Revell Launch tower (1:160) kit 4911, the Airfix  shuttle stack kit (1:144) and the paper kits (1:160) by David Maier for the MLP and the crawler in a modified mixed scale (1:144/1:160). Also I am using the LC39 Detail kits (PE parts) by LVM Studios.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/09/2013 03:41 PM
All right, let's go on, both options have advantages and disadvantages. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This multiple bending of such pipes in one piece is quite stressful and has remembered right back with horror at the bending of the pipes on the two LOX- and LH2-Valve skids on Side 1. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Therefore, I've inserted in between yet another detail. These brackets are, so I would guess, located above the folding service platforms, where during work then railing be plugged. These railing sit on four small props, I wanted to also indicate. They stand out but only approx. 1,5 mm from the flap at 1:160 and are thus quite tiny.

These props there are also on the middle service platforms on the inner sides of the TSMs, maybe I also leave off the brackets, because should be also not exactly easy to sink that, all uniformly to approx. 1,3 mm. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
 
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1585/uyq5.jpg)
Quelle: NASA

For these parts, I have used steel wire 0,35 mm.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8789/yo60.jpg)

Here the bracket is already provisionally plugged into, must be painted but before the final installation yet.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/741/h9vd.jpg)

So, and now back to the pipes, that at the end about the umbilicals almost are remindful of "antlers". (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)
Now I will use plastic rods (1,2 mm) for the thicker tube,

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/253/gfyk.jpg)

in which a 0,5 mm plastic rod is glued at the end as a rejuvenation. I have pre-drilled a hole for first carefully with 0,4 mm. Since you have to aim really with 1,2 mm pipe diameter with the drill, to meet in the middle and not to slide off.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7230/x9mi.jpg)

Then I got bored after again with 0,5 mm,

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/39/k46t.jpg)

then plugged the 0,5 mm pipe, and made a first fitting.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1153/egyy.jpg)

And then, the interplay between measurements, bending and trying on really went in slightly to get sweat. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/woo.gif)

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1416/5ywh.jpg)

Especially for the front bends of the antlers ends, you need a lot of patience and steady hands for measurements, fitting and corrections.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1917/2y18.jpg)

The thicker pipe is missing only the small junction prior to the rejuvenation, which I will glue but as a precaution until after installation.

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9666/ofy6.jpg)

Then I have bent the front plugged part of brass because the hooked end still bends up, which then is also stable and looks better. However I can save the previous painting of such parts of me, which must be bent with the tweezers still several times because the color it too wears off. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/834/7btp.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4372/lw31.jpg)

So, and now follows the same procedure with the thinner pipe, for which I've used 0,5 mm brass tube in the front as a rejuvenation 0,35 mm steel wire is inserted.

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1918/3iw1.jpg)

And here is the fitting, but so far very good looks.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5091/eh6p.jpg)

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2620/i963.jpg)

Thus, the two pipes were now almost done, only missing the painting. On the thicker pipe, the last lower bow is broken off while, but he gets it back. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8827/g3e8.jpg)

So Guys, until soon then!

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/12/2013 07:46 PM
MANFRED,

  Good bending techniques. I have been experimenting with brass rods and find them much easyer to work with. Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/12/2013 08:46 PM
Richo,

I'm glad, if I could help, yep brass is a nice ductile material and easy to bend. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/19/2013 01:54 PM
Hi there,
let's go on with the TSM pipes to fill the troublesome summer hole a bit ...  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/sleeping.gif)

Although it is not a spectacular progress, but these small parts can be quite a deal, and small livestock also makes known to quite a lot of crap. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

First, the support bracket (0,35 mm steel wire) on the back of the  LH2 TSM  was adapted.

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1589/nrn0.jpg)

And then it went to the pipes on LOX TSM which has the same details without the arched sheet-metal hood and the outer lateral line bundle, the pipes but with mirror-course.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3434/r2xr.jpg)
Quelle: NASA

Here are first the thinner pipes from 0.5mm brass tube with the taper at the end of steel wire 0,35 mm,

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9479/jngn.jpg)

here, with the corresponding pipes of plastic rod 1,2 mm,

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7806/3z4i.jpg)

and here with the front Antler Coat elbows made ​​of brass wire 0,5 mm.

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9589/7ya4.jpg)

In these elbows, the front spray nozzles are indicated by thin insulating hose. In front of it are the branch ducts that come off each shortly before the end of the thicker pipes. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/354/bhzr.jpg)

And now the next step will be a larger painting action with all these pipes and other, already prepared small parts, before I have a bit of jitters. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Then everything can finally be installed, and then we'll see ...

Until next time then, all your faithful companions! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/19/2013 05:59 PM
MANFRED,

  I think I'll give you a new nickname "Bender". (In the U.S. "Bender" is a cartoon robot on that bends piping.)

  This is getting me excited about my next chapter to build. I'm watching intently to get all the hints I can. Thanks-keep bending!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/20/2013 06:30 AM
Hello Richo,

thanks for the compliments, then you will be the next "Bender"! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

Welcome in our Club of Benders! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 08/20/2013 07:52 PM
Whoo! Glad to see this project back on track.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/21/2013 05:56 PM
Hi there,

because the guys in the paint shop have yet to replace a defective O-ring at the gun, I've taken a few more TSM details in attack. These are but this time no pipes, but the lines and junction boxes of the electrical installation, running on the front and back from the box behind the door by the lifting bracket up.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5039/rp87.jpg) (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-135/hires/jsc2011e050269.jpg)
Source: NASA

That takes a line and three distribution boxes, the parts can be seen here. For the line I have taken 0.35 mm steel wire, and for the boxes U-beam 1,5x1,0 mm, to each a snippet from Evergreen strip 1,5x0,35 mm is glued. Through this hollow profile can be guided the line. This procedure seemed easier than to drill through square profiles. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5628/cz8s.jpg)

And so the line section is then seen on a trial basis on the TSM.

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4159/nbua.jpg)

The whole thing had now only be repeated three more times, because such lines also running on the back side.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/485/3bee.jpg)

Above the line section are already two small structures that are located at the back of the TSM's above the umbilical flap whose purpose I do not know, however. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8217/bufh.jpg)
Source: NASA

And then there are on the front and back of the TSM's still such a small control boxes that I also wanted to build, here you can see the box on the front left of the thinner pipe.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3816/473h.jpg)
Source: NASA

I have cut me a piece of sheet, on the front of the box is cut from the paper kit and glued.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9607/3l97.jpg)

And so that then looks something, the boxes in the back, the two line sections, and above the two small boxes.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4998/izm7.jpg)

Since some paint missing everywhere yet, but I hope so, that the paint guys are ready for use again soon. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/26/2013 02:12 AM
Where's the paint guys when you need 'em?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/26/2013 08:41 PM
Hi Rich,

maybe the paint guys are ready for a vacation. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  But before they have even replaced the defective O-ring on their gun, and it could finally be painted again. It had been now accumulated quite some small parts. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Advance a small addendum to the line bundle on the side of the LH2 TSM. Since I have glued before painting still missing bottom clamps, but that was quite a puzzle, because the 1 mm midgets can not hold with tweezers. And somehow still had to fill adhesive between what but finally succeeded. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5979/n9b4.jpg)

Then the electric lines were there initially to prepare. But the upper junction boxes I could not stick, since there still the transport brackets must be threaded. To the left of the switch boxes lay for the front and back sides of the TSMs, which I now can glue before.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/600/e8kf.jpg)

And here is the full range of parts to see that I had all individually mounted for painting on toothpicks and wires.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3504/am6y.jpg)

And here are the somewhat unwieldy pipes.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/970/p4jk.jpg)

The line bundle has survived everything good, and the clamps are all still there.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8528/st2o.jpg)

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6711/kjms.jpg)

And it looks really good on the TSM, I think, so that the effort was well worth it. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4478/hkwl.jpg)

Next, I can make the installation of the pipes now, I'm already excited to see how this is going. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2817/zf1p.jpg)

And if the pipes are then even installed, the small parts come next, but take it easy. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/390/ife1.jpg)

So, I can not complain about being bored me straight! (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/31/2013 04:51 PM
  PAINT MEISTER BENDER, Can't waite to see how your TSM's look with all the accoutrements attached.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/31/2013 10:39 PM
Do you still have a bit of patience, because I need just to do another task, but it soon goes on. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

BTW, as I have just seen on the last photos, missing a clamp on the lateral line bundle that I need to replace. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/05/2013 08:50 PM
So now it can finally go on with the details of the TSMs . I had once tried a lot in the meantime with the bending of the FireX lines because there were problems again with the bending back effect of the pipes especially in the 90 elbows. And that's really annoying, because then you have to bring the bow back into shape before gluing. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You should probably take brass profiles but rather. The thinner line is indeed made ​​of brass, and will maintain its shape. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/70.gif)

Well no matter, the thicker of the two lines on the LH2 TSM but is now installed, which shows that it is yet. But even sticking of the line is only piecemeal from one to two support points, making the whole procedure but is quite cumbersome. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

To facilitate the installation process something, I then disconnected the line at the middle support point on the side and first glued the upper part, which was not easy particularly at the short upper elbow.

(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3250/3vnq.jpg)

Tis seam on the side will not be seen later anyway, because there is still a thin clamp get over it, like the other supports too, which I'll try at least.

As you can see, the lateral electrical system is already installed and the larger of the front hoisting lugs.

And here are just the fitting of the thinner FireX line that already fits quite well.

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9590/kb05.jpg)

If this line is then mounted, it can then proceed with the remaining tiny parts further, including before the umbilical opening, so to speak, with the antlers, and with the other parts, which is also likely to be stressful again. And I must namely be careful to install the most stable parts first and most fragile at the end, so that nothing can break again. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) 

So long for today.

(http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/hi2.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/07/2013 12:07 PM
MANFRED,

  The details of your TSM's are just great! I can tell from the photos that the shadow lines add some real depth to this part of your build. Really good work!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/07/2013 10:18 PM
Thanks Rich for the kind words, that's what I want to show with the details.

And here is the next step.

Before it went to the assembly of thin FireX pipe, I have mounted the brackets on the thicker line. For this I used thin lead wire 0.25 mm, which can be put well to rounding to follow when one end is stuck with superglue. And that was as similar as threading a piece of string into a bottleneck. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

First, a tiny droplet superglue on the support, and then you have to hold the wire end already a few seconds, without trembling, until the adhesive has cured. Otherwise, the wire does not stick and you have to repeat the procedure. And it can happen that the superglue do not want to stick properly, which I have experienced at least. Then you have to try to remove the old adhesive residue carefully, and with fresh superglue it bonds then usually better. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

But after several failed attempts, the bonding was then gradually getting better, first a droplet superglue on the wire beginning, after bending the wire was cut with the cutter, and a droplet at the wire, and is what it looks like this.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6643/b327.jpg)

Then I have glued three little supports (1,0x0,5 mm) for the antler below the umbilical opening and made ​​a fitting which has worked well.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4851/imef.jpg)

And now on with the installation of the thin FireX pipe that should be trickier than I thought.

The fitting looked quite well, but now how to glue best? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_hail.gif)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2039/za41.jpg)

Of course, again with superglue because the line is made ​​of brass, but that's impossible at all supports at once. That one would not unravel with certainty, and the delicate line would be waste.  (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  So I started at the middle support on the side,

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8095/1pzz.jpg)

So I started at the middle support on the side, and then it went point by point down first, and then to continue upward until it was finally done. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2985/n6nj.jpg)

However, this was not without little damage in the paint that still need to be repaired.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3789/7pe8.jpg)

Let's see if I can build the clips around the thin line ...

Then I can finally glue the line package on the side, but first I had to replace a lost clamp.

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1908/fxx9.jpg)

And with the line package the LH2 TSM looks always better, though still missing some parts, such as the ladders etc. ...

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3204/vq9o.jpg)

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4250/vchs.jpg)

But up to this point I'm already very satisfied, although it is taking much longer than I initially thought. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/08/2013 05:15 AM
MANFRED,

  Very impressive, your skill with the small bending and placement of these very small parts. Much delicacy is needed when handling the antlers and others.

  BTW, I to have had problems with superglue. It seem to stick to everything but itself.

  Keep up the great work, I always look forward to your next posting.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/08/2013 07:46 PM
Thanks Rich for your appreciative words.

Yep, the installation of the small retaining brackets on the supports of the thicker FireX line (1,2 mm) was pretty tricky. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

The bending is not the problem because I use lead wire, which is buttery soft. But sticking with Superglue is pretty stressful and not always succeed immediately. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But the following installation of the retaining brackets around the thinner FireX line will become even more difficult, because is only 0.5 mm. Since I'm not sure whether I will succeed.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 09/09/2013 11:21 PM
Hey Roma, have you made Challenger?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/10/2013 03:39 PM
Not so far, after the MLP will be finished, the Launch tower (FSS/RSS) will be the next steps. (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 09/10/2013 08:50 PM
Keep up the great work!

I can't wait to see the amount of detail you put in the other components.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/10/2013 09:54 PM
I'll try to do it, still have a little patience, you'll experience. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/11/2013 06:33 AM
So it goes on.

With the final assembly of the lateral lines but I have to wait a little longer. Since only still need the mini-clamps are to be installed to the thinner FireX line. And as the TSM must be taken several times in his hand and turned back and forth. Therefore the part but must be still reasonably safe to touch, but do not want anything else. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1050/itln.jpg)

So again everything by the book, as with the brackets for the thicker line, only this time everything is going to be a little tighter, because the line is only 0.5 mm thick. So I had  aim more precisely in attaching the lead wire (0.25 mm) to meet the Superglue-splice correctly and right away, which I then also to some extent succeeded  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2189/tozp.jpg)

Now all we need is the both supports on the vertical line next to the door.

Next, the antler were glued to the three little supports in front of the umbilical opening. Then I have built again the small antler end for the upper thicker line, what is the items under the microscope (barely) be seen here.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4025/byh5.jpg)

It's brass wire 0.5 mm, and for the nozzle I used the thinnest insulation, which I have. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6627/x9we.jpg)

And up there in about the part should then sit. But I will probably stick until all remaining small parts are attached. The large bracket on the front and back also have been already assembled, so you can hold onto it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/grin.gif)

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9074/0uf0.jpg)

And now, finally, the line bundle could be permanently glued to the side.

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1116/zcm3.jpg)

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/17/6ptd.jpg)

So slowly fills the page, but it's still room for the ladder, that still comes next left.  And that's why I've put the ladders for a test fit.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/403/u8jz.jpg)

Of which there are three on each TSM, one at the side, and one each on the front and back.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2756/3zb9.jpg)

But now all still need some fixing right and left struts which come next. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As far as again for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: crowe-t on 09/11/2013 06:47 PM
Manfred, They look like real TSM's! Excellent work on the details.

Mike.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/11/2013 08:41 PM
Hello Mike,

thanks for your compliments, nice to meet you here on NSF. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Yep, I like them even better and better, but it's been an immense effort to scratch build those little details. The bad thing is that I can barely touch the TSM, anywhere pipes and other fragile items. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)  Because I really need to seriously consider what I have to assemble and especially when, to avoid making mistakes.

At the moment I can touch it between thumb and index finger only at two points, on the ground and on the roof and on the outer sides of the boxes on the inside, from which the service platforms be expanded. But there two ladders must be glued ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore, I am currently thinking if I should not drill a hole in the ground for a holding bar. Then I could handle the TSM better and clamp if necessary, because some details are still missing ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/11/2013 11:05 PM
Every time I look at what you have done...I am just speechless!  I can't wait to see what you do for the rest of the pad!  I imagine the elevator doors and slidewire baskets will be functional!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/12/2013 01:48 PM
Thanks for the nice complements. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

But we all do not want to overdo it . However, the installation of the thin PE parts of LVM for the FSS platforms, the elevator shaft and stairs will be a real challenge. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)  And the baskets for the Emergency Egress System (EES) of course are also included. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/14/2013 01:37 PM
MANFRED,

  Your build here looks better and better all the time!

  Also I think that you have a good idea about drilling for a hold bar, this would make things a lot easyer to handel and not destroy the work already done.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/14/2013 08:49 PM
Thanks Rich for the nice words, I think that I have to do it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And also the TSM becomes now even prickly as a hedgehog, because now even the supports for the railing on the service platforms come to three sides to it. And that are at least 16 pieces per TSM. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) Here is the image with the details once more!

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031156.jpg)
Source: NASA

And I have now drilled the holes and rest of my SSWS tubes (4.0 mm) was used.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3602/0xdp.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1355/b1z3.jpg)

Let's see if and how this works ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/15/2013 03:11 AM
Cool idea! TSM-sicles!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/15/2013 03:57 PM
RONPUR50,

  TSM-sicles! Thats funny, good one.

MANFRED,

  You definitley have a build clinic going for us all, thanks for the showing!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/19/2013 11:33 PM
Hello all together,

yep Richo, the show can go on. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

And so back to the final sprint on the LH2-TSM.

So, my attempt with the support rod has been proven in any case and was necessary because I can really hardly touch the TSM, because any parts sit anywhere. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) And the details still missing, are always delicate, and for that I need both hands free.

Next, the electricians have installed the line and the junction boxes to the back, and the remaining shipping brackets were also mounted.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6950/lg99.jpg)

Next, the small railing supports (1,5x0,25 mm) were mounted at the service platforms, therefore in around it is still prickly now. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8881/8k1n.jpg)

Then it was time to finally install the ultimate end antlers on top of the thicker FireEx line, which has again requires the utmost concentration and trembling free hand. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7218/1c5u.jpg)

But it worked right away, and I was glad. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031148.jpg)

And since the electricians were just there, they still have installed the electrical outlets at the bottom of the TSM side, well done cool guys! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7048/o0i5.jpg)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/697/580d.jpg)

So now all the details are mounted up around it.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9457/p1yi.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/897/3hio.jpg)

Now all we need are the ladders. Although I had already shown some ladders in a test fit, however, there was now in the meantime from our German forum nor the well-intentioned suggestion, that I have provided for little too robust ladders which might be replaced by filigree ladders. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Well, since it was already going through my mind, I again looked around for other ladders and found PE ladders from the Polish manufacturer ABER (1:200) which may could fit and would probably look better than my Plastruct ladders. But now I have to wait yet. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

And here are a few impressions, such as the almost finished LH2 TSM looks on the MLP, which was not seen for a long time indeed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8637/cv0m.jpg)

And with this result, I can be quite happy now, I guess. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1/c6um.jpg)

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7406/oul2.jpg)

So long dear friends! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/20/2013 02:29 AM
I just want to scream so loud that that looks Freakin Awesome!! 

And should be very happy with it!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/20/2013 11:25 AM
Thanks Ronpur50 for your nice enthusiasm. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

BTW, I've flashed over, that on this TSM are now about 200 items installed and I am shocked about themselves ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But as I had imagined, and therefore I am more than satisfied! (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

In addition to the ladders now missing only some last little details, that are the Radially Outward Firing Ignitors (ROFIs), I want to scratch build too.

At each TSM there are three of them, a single ROFI on the front and a double ROFI on the back, as can be seen in this photo.
 
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8288/jqor.jpg)
Source: NASA

At T-minus 10 seconds, hydrogen igniters were activated under each engine bell to quell the stagnant gas inside the cones before ignition, what you can see from the start of Endeavour STS-134 at the beginning in this awesome YouTube video.

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7043/ezrd.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UgoNkXIlZEY)

Maybe the last details of my TSM's ... (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Soheil on 09/20/2013 01:39 PM
Oh my gooooooooooooooooooooooood !!! :o

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yTQYKA174Kg/USzXKqmSlKI/AAAAAAAAXe0/bWPozJcO0iw/s1600/cat_machine_gun_cat.jpg)

this thing is awesome :o ... really speechless :-X ... U R great 8) ... keep it up ! ;D
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/20/2013 06:49 PM
MANFRED,

  The TSM, looks like a mini kit all by itself! Greate job my friend!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/20/2013 10:35 PM
Thanks guys for your continued interest and the nice words. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Now once again follows the same procedure on the LOX-TSM, but there are fortunately some parts less because the line bundle on the side is missing. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: crowe-t on 09/24/2013 04:00 AM
Manfred,  I'm speechless!!!  Your TSM's look like they could actually be on an MLP to help launch a shuttle.  All your efforts are really paying off!

BTW, I like the holding bar you made.  I'm sure the holding bars really helped you in assembling all those tiny parts.

Mike.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/24/2013 01:25 PM
Thanks Mike for your expert opinion, which mean a lot to me. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

The effort for all these tiny details is indeed immense, but he is really paying off, so I am fully satisfied. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Soheil on 09/28/2013 06:57 PM
Any progress ? (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/28/2013 08:53 PM
Hi there,

and have a little patience please, Soheil. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Before proceeding with the details on the LOX TSM, again a short review to the ladders.

With the previously provided plastic ladders of Plastruct I was ultimately not fully satisfied, (http://bastelstars.net/wbb2/images/smilies/i5684_no2.gif)

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/403/u8jz.jpg)

because the thickness of the ladder beams and spokes do not quite fit with the other tiny details of the TSM, although they are actually quite okay on her scale. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore, I had looked around at the ship model builders for PE ladders and have found these nice PE ladders from ABER  (1:200) in Poland. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6218/obqt.jpg)

There are three different sizes included, of which the ladders of the 3rd to the 6th row from the bottom should fit. Now I just have to bend the ladder beams (0.25 mm) carefully, (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) the spokes are about 0.1 mm.

And that should be much better suited to the other details, I guess. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/29/2013 02:24 AM
Oh, those look much closer to scale that the plastic ones...great find!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/01/2013 06:59 AM
Yep, I fully agree with you, Ronpur. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

These PE parts are well known, very thin brass sheet (0.1 mm) and therefore be treated with caution. The board is still relatively manageable, but after cutting the ladder is a very fragile construct and compared to the Plastruct ladder very delicate. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif) 

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6706/9r5q.jpg)

As I learned of the ship model builders, the ladder beams (0.2 mm) must be bent forward so that the ladder then gets a little more stability. There are special bending tools, but a steel ruler serves the same purpose, especially since the ladders are relatively short at about 40 mm in length. You must only create very accurate the ruler directly behind the beam, then you can lift the rest with the cutter carefully and turn with a set square to the vertical position.

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/526/wbl2.jpg)

Then rotating the ladder and bend the other beam in the same manner, and so the first four ladders are finished. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1913/rfss.jpg)

They come to the front and back of the TSMs, in each case on the sides of these boxes from which the service platforms are expanded.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up030531.jpg)
Source: NASA

Now the ladders only need the side mounting struts, which I really wanted to take an Evergreen strip, and indeed the smallest, which is available with 0,5x0,25 mm.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6708/5ge1.jpg)

But when I look at the way, seems to be almost of optics, for the ladders too strong, which makes this picture even clearer.   

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/395/5uyo.jpg)

What to do?  The best of course would fit the ladder beams, if you would sacrifice a piece of ladder for it, or what do you think? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Well let's see, maybe I find still another solution.  (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)   

That's why I continued ​​the LOX TSM, where I first glued the thicker FireX pipe again in two steps.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4641/t24w.jpg)

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/538/z0d2.jpg)

And then I still have glued the clamps of 0.25 mm lead wire, which was similar stressful again as with the LH2 TSM.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/138/lut7.jpg)

So far then for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 10/12/2013 01:35 PM
MANFRED,

  Somehow I missed this part of your build. The PE ladders are really nice compaired to the plastic ones, much finer detail>
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 11/08/2013 05:23 PM
Hi Manfred,

So....anything new yet ?  Have you decided to take a break ?

Just miss the timely updates.... Dave ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/08/2013 05:58 PM
Hi Dave,

thank you for your continued interest. I actually had 3 weeks vacation and only has to find the connection, what is more difficult than I thought. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Somehow I still lack the crucial inner drive and new motivation to throw myself back into the tricky detail work. Such phases seems to be after a longer break, since 4 weeks I have built nothing. But I will overcome my inner demon, and then it goes back to life again, I hope so.  (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

Stay tuned all guys, I'll be back soon, the show must go on! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 11/09/2013 06:20 PM
That's Great Manfred,
                                 Just Glad you are still Alive and with us.....

Take your time, sit back, Relax,  ...that Inner-Drive will kick in Only when you're ready..

Dave :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/10/2013 03:48 PM
Thanks Dave for your kind words, giving me encouragement to keep pushing on. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

It's true, it costs a bit overcome to dare these tiny and fragile details after 4 weeks break and with a rheumy nose, but I will not give up - now I'm ready and it turns me on again! (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

I hope tomorrow I can post the next progress pics. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/20/2013 10:56 PM
Hello my faithful friends,

so, after a slightly  l o n g e r  break things should go further. I even had to scroll far back to find the connection. And I must confess, the re-entry is not so easy for me after that felt like an eternity, because the distance was now but already pretty big ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Last, and that was probably the end of September, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)  I had installed the thicker of the two Firex lines at LH2 TSM and fitted the retaining clips. Now on I went to the front part of the antler, as can be seen here including again a tricky thing.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031925.jpg)

Before I've installed the thinner Firex line, were fitted the two support bars on the front and back of the TSM.

When bonding the thinner Firex line with superglue I had some problems because that sat not in fact in the right places to support. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)
As a result, it was partly different distances from the line thicker, and looked kind of humble, and I did not like. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/angry.gif)

That's why I have to remove the thin line again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) That in turn resulted that has become detached in the joints of the paint from the brass line, so I had to remove the paint residue on the supports carefully, which was quite tedious and stressful, especially because of the difficult handling of the TSM. ?

The traces of this procedure is seen here in this picture after the second installation of the thin line, so I have to retouch later still a lot here. But now the line but fits better than the first time, and I 'm glad. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6770/h1hu.jpg) 

Now here the brackets were glued, as usual from 0.25 mm lead wire.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/214/xvor.jpg)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8754/20w9.jpg)

Meanwhile, the small railing supports (1,5 x0,25 mm) are fitted at the front and rear service flaps, so I can make the supports at the two inner flaps next time. The holes are already prepared.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5536/qozk.jpg)

So folks, all re-beginning is difficult, but I'm starting to find back to the track ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

See you soon!

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 11/21/2013 03:22 AM
I am seriously running out of ways to describe how impressed I am!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/21/2013 12:39 PM
Thanks for your words of appreciation. Then I will continue to do my best that it stays that way. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 11/21/2013 03:25 PM
Alright Manfred  :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/21/2013 07:15 PM
Now it goes on in small steps.

There were initially the guardrail posts to be attached to the inner two service flaps, a total of 10 pieces. The problem is that all approximately should have the same height ( 1.5 mm), for which I have used a piece of rectangular profile 2,0 x1, 5 mm as a depth stop for sinking of the wires (0.25 mm ). (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1161/zxx7.jpg)

Then the electric line was installed to the back yet and the two hoisting lugs attached,
 
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8111/5ixp.jpg)

and on the front was missing the smaller hoisting lug.

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4757/lvzk.jpg)

A few details are still missing and come off next time. Tomorrow I 'm going to swing the brush and touch up the worn or bare spots.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 11/21/2013 07:23 PM
MANFRED,

  It's great to see some progress again! I had the same problem after I built the swing arm. It took me about a week to get my mind to working on the crawler build again. But gangbusters has burst open the door and I'm building with a vengeance again.

  The detail of your build is really inspiring, with all the small pieces, Keep up the great job and get back to work!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/21/2013 08:55 PM
Rich,

thanks for your nice words. You will not believe it, but I had the same presumption that you have gone through something similar. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Therefore now full speed ahead with your crawler. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Overflow on 11/22/2013 07:43 PM
Hey Manfred!

Just stopping by to say welcome back! We're all looking forward to follow you through this project!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/22/2013 09:22 PM
Thanks for your nice regards! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) 

After a longer break now I have overcome my inner pig dog (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)  and want to give gas again! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/25/2013 10:14 PM
So, today it went on with the antler on which still was missing the last end. When mounting this tiny part I had to take the magnifying glass to help, because that should have as equal as possible right the first time. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1173/onl7.jpg)

And that has worked out quite well, thank God. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/117/q8sy.jpg)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5401/ur8a.jpg)

And then the sockets were mounted on the outside that still need to be wired.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7223/ad7l.jpg)

Then I picked up the brush and touched up the vacant posts.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4646/japx.jpg)

In order again to have an overall impression, here are both TSMs in place on the MLP upper deck.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1221/9jrl.jpg)

And so that already now looks quite passable, I think. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4950/u2t4.jpg)

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5101/niwl.jpg)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4020/xxmg.jpg)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2159/7qwp.jpg)

Next, I will now turn back to the ladders still missing. And that will probably again be a bit stressful job, I fear. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 11/26/2013 04:22 AM
looking good Manfred.    Ladders are so much fun
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/26/2013 07:03 AM
Thanks Tom for your nice words. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Yep, the PE ladders are so thin and fragile, therefore I have to do my best and take care. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 11/26/2013 11:49 AM
So tiny and delicate!  Amazing again! 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 11/26/2013 04:53 PM
MANFRED,

  The level of detail is just gorgious, and has great shadow lines on this museum quality build. Thanks for the insperation to us al.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/28/2013 06:32 PM
Thanks Rich for your nice compliments. I am glad if I can inspire you from time to time. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And so back to the TSM ladders still missing.

Since I had decided to go with thin PE ladders of ABER, instead of the originally planned plastic ladders of Plastruct, which, however, look a little rustic. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031205.jpg)

The problem with the ladders were the lateral support struts which are 1-3 mm long.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up030531.jpg)
Source: NASA

The ladders on the sides of the boxes have different long struts. They stand with one side on the box and the other on the TSM body. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Here's even a ladder placed on the box side.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/9471/b64z.jpg)

Now the supports must only be fixed somehow. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

For this purpose I have now considered the following. In addition to the PE ladders I also had ordered PE railings (actually ship's rail) that I could possibly use as a supporting substructure.

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8974/5g5n.jpg)

As you can see in this picture, the ladder fit almost exactly on the center row of a railing strip.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3571/zc68.jpg)

If I would glue the ladders, I had the right and the left railing feet that could bent act as supports. Because the distances between the supports probably may be a little too big, I have to remeasure again using photos. 

That's at least even my idea, let's see if this can be done somehow. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/10/2013 01:20 PM
MANFRED,

  Good idea with the PE ladders. We haven't heard from you here in a while. Hope all is well with you and your build.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/10/2013 04:04 PM
Thanks Rich,

yep, you're right, now it is again almost two weeks since my last step with the ladders. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  But I had to do some other things that have come between them and took priority. Therefore I had not the necessary rest to engage myself with the gluing of these delicate PE structures in 0.1 mm range. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

BTW, also I've made ​​an escapade for lighting with tiny LEDs, but so far only theoretically, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif) because that is absolutely virgin soil for me, unlike you, LED Junkie ... (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif) Since I have a lot to learn from you ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 12/12/2013 03:08 PM
LEDs would be like Icing on a Cake..  Glad you are Looking into the Possibility
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 12/12/2013 04:44 PM
A lit tower would be amazing!  I remember years ago when mine was still intact, I stuck white Christmas tree lights in it from behind and it looked great in the dark....from one side only!  lol
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/12/2013 10:59 PM
Yep guys, I can fully agree with you and totally understand your enthusiasm,  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031631.gif) if only once look at this hot photo.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031630.jpg)
Source: NASA

However, the lamps on each floor sit at the corners of the elevator shaft, as you can see in this picture.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up027252.jpg)
Source: NASA

And in this video one can see such nice tiny LEDs, which these days are apparently no more a rocket science. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ieKn64uf3J8

The thing is certainly very attractive, and in my fingers it starts to tingle ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/13/2013 07:31 PM
Mr. Ubermodeler!

  I see that you have finaly seen the light!! Now you know why I would like to install several hundred into my LUT/MLP build. The crawler has 100 lights, and the LUT could have 400 and still not be enough for real life.
BTW, Ron is correct. The adding of lights would make it feel like a Christmas tree, all year long. Imagine if you had built this in 1/72 scale!!

  So on with the show, no longer a light virgin, there is no excuse. Go into the light!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/13/2013 10:30 PM
Thanks Mr. LED Wizard,
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) you've lit my fire, but still remain many questions ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/15/2013 11:15 PM
Hello Folks,

and so back to the TSM details, so up on the ladders!  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

First, however, a small addition of the electricians at LOX TSM, who have finally clamped the sockets. First, I glued the cables of 0.25 mm lead wire into small holes,

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2680/ljcq.jpg)

then, the small loops were modeled and connected to the sockets,

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6370/a8mo.jpg)

and finally painted.

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4759/ja25.jpg)

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/483/eh33.jpg)

And so again to the missing ladders initially which on the outer sides of the TSMs having equal length legs, and thus should be more easily to scratch-build than the other of the sides of the boxes.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5039/rp87.jpg) (http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8217/bufh.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here are the two ladders in its original form, that is only cut out from the PE board.

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8982/qfz4.jpg)

Now the two side bars must be bent upwards in each case from the right side at 90. To do this go best a steel ruler on the side bar and then turns carefully the rest of the ladder. And then the same procedure once again on the other side, after which the ladder then looks so.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9961/jjb0.jpg)

Only through the bend up the bars gets the ladder then also a certain stability, previously, these delicate structures are namely quite labile. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7230/pb9l.jpg)

Next, I've cut out a part from the PE railings, which is to provide the feet and at the same time serve as a support for the ladder.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8281/q5vh.jpg)

Now on this carrier I want to glue the ladder and then bend the feet, I just do not know if that also will work out as I imagine it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5889/c9rq.jpg)

But for this procedure I need daylight, and therefore it should continue tomorrow.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/16/2013 03:42 AM
looing good Manfred.  I dont know how you do it at that scale.  it sure looks great.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/16/2013 08:33 PM
Thanks Tom for your nice compliments.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Sometimes one might even despair, and always then I envy you around your comfortable 1:72 scratch build. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/20/2013 10:59 PM
Hello guys,

a little bit on the side for a change is allowed, and thus again back to the lighting of the launch pad that somehow fascinated me. And that is why I have started in the last few days to occupy myself for something. But this is not a simple chapter and uncharted territory for me. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

First, I could try the MLP subsequently to light with some tiny LEDs. Side 1 is still relatively clear but all the lamps were not lit always at the same time, as you can see in these two pictures.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up031630.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4097/swlj.jpg)
Source: NASA

MLP-2 at the STS 6 had approx. 18 lamps  on Side 1, I have counted in this picture.

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/742/9t9d.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/144/wxf4.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com

But the situation of lighting of the early launch tower (FSS & RSS) is a little more difficult, because the lighting during STS-6 looked different than in this later picture, after the elevator shaft was covered.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up027252.jpg)

At this early STS-1 image of the FSS tower with the red lift-gratings that I will build means of the LVM detail kits, you can see no lights at these positions .

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up016343.jpg)

Probably the lamps hung at the level ceiling, as one might suspect at this picture of the STS-1, but what I need to investigate more closely. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

That's why I ordered this tiny SMD LEDs (1,0 mm x 0,3 mm x 0,5 mm, cable 0,1 mm) from ebay for lighting of the pad,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033776.jpg)

and today I got this hot stuff. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6285/4dvu.jpg)

Then I found some small things I can use for the lampshades, which have diameters of approx. 3 mm, that fit my sale 1:160.

These are crushing calottes from the jewelry accessories,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033988.jpg)

and these are cable clips (white 3,2 mm, red 2,3 mm), of which I can use the conical part for the lampshades. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img198/9185/kh8o.jpg)

(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) Now I just have to make something of it and to light the lamps ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/20/2013 11:07 PM
thoase look good....who was the ebaY VENDOR?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/21/2013 12:31 AM
WAY TO GO MANFRED,

  Befor long you'll be into it waist deep. I can't wait to see how you tackle this!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 12/21/2013 03:06 AM
This is gonna be good!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/21/2013 03:52 AM
i think we have a competition here :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/21/2013 03:57 AM
Maybe I have created a monster!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/21/2013 04:30 AM
keeps us on our toes
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/21/2013 04:56 AM
one of the lights i was working on.   scale is still a problem....we are getting really small even at 1/72.  made the light cover from some clear styrene i heated and pushed a drill bit thru.  i lighted this one with a fiber cable.  it is really to dim.  i need to get some small LED's.  i have some surface mount ones somewhere can never find things when you want them
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/21/2013 09:11 AM
Hello folks,

thanks for your compliments and nice wishes, I can understand your enthusiasm! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Tom,
here is the German ebay seller ledbaron (http://www.ebay.de/itm/10x-SMD-LED-0401-PUR-WEISS-Cu-Draht-0-1mm-35cm-XL-wit-copper-wire-long-version-/370951960444?pt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item565e75b77c), where you can find a lot of this great LED stuff. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Rich,
yep, the chapter lighting is really fascinating, so I want to try a first step. But one thing is clear, you're the LED monster and the boss in the ring, not me! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)  I'm only a rank beginner, who certainly still has to pay a lot of training money.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Now I would at least try and see if I can install some LEDs later on the MLP. That will certainly be a bit difficult, because the space below the Blast shields is so small. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

But my motto is: trial and error! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/21/2013 09:42 AM
Hi guys,

sorry, in my next to last post I have forgotten this picture by the STS-1, on which one might suspect that the lamps hung at the level's ceiling.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img823/175/jo8o.jpg)
Source: NASA

Does anyone have any other pictures where you can see more precisely the positions of the lamps around the elevator shaft on each level? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

BTW, this could also be old pictures of the Apollo LUT, because parts of it were indeed used later for the Shuttle launch towers. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/21/2013 02:21 PM
here is one more i happened to have.   couple of pics during the dismantle.  you can see where the lights are.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/21/2013 04:13 PM
Thanks Tom, but this is the Tower design of the later years of the shuttle missions after covering the elevator shaft, I've also shown some posts before in this picture.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up027252.jpg)
Source: NASA

But STS-6 was in 1983 and at the time the elevator shaft had yet this typical LUT design of the Apollo era, that's why I am now looking for close-up LUT images.

Here is a picture from any Apollo Museum, there can be seen two level of the LUT, where you can see some lights. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/8550/uomj.jpg)
Source: NASA

But that is only one picture of only two sides, that's my problem. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore, once again my appeal to the Apollo freaks, who has good pics of the LUT with lighting details and can help me?

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 12/21/2013 04:53 PM
Not sure how accurate the display is at The Saturn V Center, but these lights are on the levels of the tower they have on display.

If it will help, I will try to take some more pictures of it next month.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/21/2013 09:29 PM
Hi Ron,
thanks for your help, that looks cool and could coincide with the images of the STS-1 tower. (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) what a lot of lamps, this is the bomb ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

I would be glad if you could even make some photos for your next trip, so you can see it from all four sides, where the lamps sit. Maybe there are also on-site photos or posters of the whole LUT, with which you can compare. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Thanks in advance! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/22/2013 05:19 AM
MANFRED,

  Now I have you turned on with the lights, you have a considerable chore ahead of you. I think that the FSS/RSS of the shuttle tower is quite complex with the light placements.  I know how you are, in that you would probably like to install all the lights to make it as accurate as possible. Sometimes one has to pick his battles and decide how for to go with the details.

  When I started my research for the MSS, I discovered a website that specializes in scans of original technical drawings and blueprints of various launch structures.  I downloaded several DVD's of info that I could use for my project. I'll dig this out and send it to you. Perhaps there might be some info that you could use also.

  So on with the show, I'm really excited to see how you proceed with the lights. I wont change the channel, I'll stay tuned.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/22/2013 09:05 AM
Thanks Rich for your helpful feedback and for your offer, something to send, because technical drawings are always good for scratch building. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033780.gif)

On one hand, the lighting is an exciting story, because light makes things alive! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

On the other hand, one must be realistic here, especially in view of the scale. 1:160 is damn small to such small things and not to be compared with 1:96 or 1:72 (Hi Tom).

Therefore, it will also have to be a compromise here, because afterwards no one will count the lamps, and also the construction is complicated enough. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

I originally wanted to build the tower from bottom to top, but with lighting it might be better from top to bottom. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

On the MLP Side 1 is still relatively manageable, although the subsequent installation of the lamps is perhaps painfully. But in the tower with many PE floors and stairs in such a confined space it will be certainly incredibly difficult. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)  That's what I do not want to think today though.

So I'll try it on MLP, maybe I'll throw in the towel but then. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/22/2013 01:03 PM
It's enough to make my brain hurt! :o
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/22/2013 10:42 PM
Hello for the 3rd Advent,

Boldly ventured, is half done, and therefore I have also razed me on this unknown territory to work, or rather, taken the first steps. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

First I once tried the LEDs, and as I have already learned clamped precaution with a series resistor (250 Ohm) to a normal flat battery (4.5 V).

And lo and behold there be light: And there was light! And my first light is burning, joy on 3rd Advent! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8770/zzmd.jpg)

For my taste, the LED light is very flashy, but that will hopefully be more subdued with the lampshade, are just LEDs and not bulbs. And as for the color, I have probably already try some more, possibly in direction to warm white with a bit of coloring, since 1983 at the STS-6, were certainly quite normal bulbs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Here the LED is in a gray cover, but is inserted only once temporarily. Black covers would certainly be better, because this pretty shine through here. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/69/9rxr.jpg)

And here I then tried five LEDs on the MLP over the Valve skids to see the effect. Mind you, these are my very first baby steps in this area, but which I am completely satisfied initially.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3562/4llq.jpg)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6606/b1zc.jpg)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9356/dsy3.jpg)

As I said, the LED light is still too bright to me. But that is for a fact that the LEDs were only once hung so provisionally under the Blast Shields, wherein the threading of thin wires (0.1 mm) was difficult enough. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4107/tivf.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9092/1drj.jpg)

Since LEDs have not had lampshades, light naturally radiates far too heavily on the environment. Secondly, I hope so, that the cold whiteness can be adapted towards a warm white like incandescent bulbs yet, maybe by dipping of the LEDs in epoxy resin so that it then looks something like as in this picture here.

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8813/giau.jpg)
Source: NASA

That should have been first time as a first small taste! Since one can certainly improve a lot, but all beginnings are difficult. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/23/2013 09:10 AM
And so it all looks in daylight.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2927/0bwq.jpg)

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6756/mols.jpg)

What else is added, the effect is that the silver-colored pipes and fittings Valve skids the bright white still fairly reflect. But we'll get everything even a little bit better, I hope so. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

I want to experiment again today with the lamp shades on, then the light should not shine through so up at least. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Squack on 12/23/2013 10:38 AM
Hi Manfred,

If you want to make the LEDs less bright try adding more resistance in series with the power supply.

LEDs will dim somewhat with a reduced current.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 12/23/2013 12:20 PM
Also, by the time you light the whole pad, and if you use the same power supply, they should dim as well.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/23/2013 12:26 PM
Thanks Squack and Ron,

yep, there are some possibilities.

Or do I try it once the "sunny white/warm white" LEDs (left), here in comparison with "bright white".

(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m1fUGbhq-vWbMwV7fSN0BIw.jpg)  (http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m7OQOMb3aAtpdOTDFb_cMNA.jpg)

As one can see, the "sunny white/warm white" is much more pleasant and I like better. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

I want to try some more, we'll see. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 12/23/2013 12:32 PM
Oh, a nice yellow color.  That matches the photos better.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 12/23/2013 08:45 PM
OMG, Manfred!!

  Your baby steps are just wunderbar!!

  So now, you have several options for the light intensity and color. To cut down on the brightness, you simply install a dimmer switch into the power line. This is the same thing as a dimmer switch for your house lights. However this only works if you are using a power cord from a wall socket to your model.

  You can also dip the individual lights into accrylic paint glaze of the color that you would like them to be. That is, you paint the bright white lights with a gold-yellow paint, and this will dim the lights and change the color at the same time.

  Also simply install a warm white color light.

  Also if you are using a battery power source, make sure you place your battery mount in a place where you can get to them easily. The batteries will only last for a few hours compaired to electrical power.

  I chose an electrical power source because I could install 100's of my lights or more, and not have to worrie about draining the power to dim the lights. They will stay at full intencity, no matter how many lights I install.

  You and Tom are on the correct path to outdo my crawler build, I'm so excited to see this build!! Keep up the great work!

  P.S. Check out: artifactoryreplicas.com and also Aerospase Project Review from Scott Lowther for technical drawings and refferances. I'm not sure if these might have what you are looking for but it sure is cool looking at scans of the original blueprints.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 12/24/2013 02:06 PM
Fantastic Manfred, and a Merry Christmas to All...
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/24/2013 11:15 PM
Thanks Rich for your helpful comment and support, since I can still learn a lot. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

BTW, the battery was only to test, later I will also use constant current sources and a power supply.

Thanks also for the links of sources, I will study next. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

I have a professional guy (aircraft electronics) found in our German  Raumcon forum who wants to help me and will also build a power supply.

From Mischa I have got some LUT plans, where upon about 12 lamps are installed on each tower level. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

So it is a great help if the friends help. Thanks all guys for your support, you make me happy!  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/santa.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/26/2013 01:02 PM
Hello guys,

and there just everywhere so many lights shine, here's fits to a picture of the STS-6-Pad with full lighting and floodlights, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) on which one can see some details of the Tower Lighting around the red elevator shaft, which I have now clarity. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3849/8lep.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com

And how was that again with flash light? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Then, still further includes a beautiful 2nd Holiday!

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/santa.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/28/2013 02:58 PM
Hey Manfred:

question for you.   the hood or shield you have above the LOX tunnel.  Do you have a pic of it?  I cannot see it in any of my pictures.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/28/2013 04:46 PM
Hey Tom,

I have found these pics for you:

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1034/2f31.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8895/32i6.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7079/0rtq.jpg)
Source: NASA

BTW, you can see how I have scratch built my LOX tunnel hood in this thread (page 7, Rep. 103). (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Maybe there is also a drawing in the MLP-1 PDF, if I remember right.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/30/2013 10:04 AM
Hello between years,

so, I once experimented a bit further, with the lighting utensils. Since I had ferrules (probably copper) discovered that could be used for lampshades well. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif) 

These are available in various diameters, with my 2.0 mm (a-ferrule) and 2.6 mm (a-brim) for the tests initially appeared most suitable, which is the second from the left.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034979.jpg)

From this ferrule I have the brim expanded by means of a lathe center and 1-2 light hammer blows on a about 3.2 mm (left) and in this picture here.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034980.jpg)

And with this "shield" and a pure white LED I have then made a test on the right Access Platform​​, wherein the shaft has to be of course reduced to about 1 mm in length.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034981.jpg)

And here with the LED lights again, but the light seems too bright. In fact, it looks indeed still cold white, but is quite bearable. It appears in the photo but still totally garish oversubscribed. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034982.jpg)

After that I once tried the small glass beads from the jewelry accessories, first of all the yellow, which I already had. These are about 2.5 mm in diameter (a), maybe almost too big for the lamp shade. But I have also seen in Rayher smaller beads.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034983.jpg)

The inner diameter of the beads is about 1,0 - 1,5 mm, so that the mini-SMD LED still loose fit through. And this yellow light looks a bit more friendly than the pure white.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034984.jpg)

So I've still bought this colorful transparent beads for a color test which with 2,2 mm (a) and 0.75 mm (i) are somewhat smaller.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034985.jpg)

Then I have five pure white LEDs with series resistors hanged to a battery, and the function test without beads also worked right away.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/79/fdm0.jpg)

Now I have five of the colored glass beads slipped carefully over the LEDs, which had the following colors:

1 orange
2 yellow
3 red
4 green
5 blue

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034987.jpg)

Here now with lighting, of which the first three patterns certainly seem to me to be suitable, of which No. 1 might have the most pleasant warm tone. Or what do you think? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034988.jpg)

Here again for comparison, the first LED without the orange bead with the pure white light. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034989.jpg)

And here again the color palette close up.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034990.jpg)

And one thing is fact and should be followed. The LED light is in the long run so bright that you really should not look longer into it without protection, what are the manufacturer warns certainly not without reason. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/30/2013 11:45 AM
your making progress buddy. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/30/2013 12:50 PM
Yep, slowly but surely! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: SoheilEsy on 12/30/2013 03:39 PM
I just find out the meaning of German Over Engineering :o
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/30/2013 03:52 PM
Thanks, or you can also say that's Made in Germany! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/30/2013 04:07 PM
I think Manfred just has to much time on his hands :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: SoheilEsy on 12/30/2013 04:57 PM
I am a modeler too ... but a 3D modeler ::)

Can i have a topic in this section ? ???

I will start the work after unveiling ... in 2014

"Imam Khomeini Space Launch Center" under construction :
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/30/2013 08:20 PM
Hello and Welcome to NSF Forum!

You have to go back one level to "NSF Space Modeling Forum", where you can start a New Topic. There you also find two 3D topics started by Prober. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: SoheilEsy on 12/31/2013 08:57 AM
Thanks Manfred !

I am not a newbie ... my account ( Soheil ) is out of service because of technical problems :-[

This is my new account 8)

Quote
You have to go back one level to "NSF Space Modeling Forum", where you can start a New Topic.

I know ... ;D

Thanks (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/31/2013 09:43 AM
Okay SoheilEsy, then you can start your new topic in the new year! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/31/2013 05:12 PM
Hello folks,

let's come to the end of this very old year and let dim the lights ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

I wish you all

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/AFTER_~1.GIF)

Take care and stay tuned!

C H E E R S !

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/PART.GIF)

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 12/31/2013 05:13 PM
Happy New Year Manfred.  Happy Modeling!!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/31/2013 11:47 PM
Hi Tom,

thanks for your wishes, we are already in the new year and clink glasses at your health! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/smileygarden2010_silvester13.gif)  (http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/smileygarden2010_silvester4.gif)   (http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/smileygarden2010_silvester15.gif)

Happy Modeling & Lighting - The show must go on!!!

C H E E R S !

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Silvester/PARTY2.GIF)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/03/2014 08:33 AM
Hello together in the New Year,

I hope you have all come across well. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

I have since made ​​further with the lampshades, or rather, with the ferrules to be what times.

My first hand attempts to widen the ferrule brim with light hammer blows, forget it, as this is too uneven and therefore not satisfactory. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

That's why I tried the tip from a modeler from the German Raumcon forum with a cordless screwdriver, and has proven itself just fine! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

I have now decided me for ferrules with 1.8mm (Da) and 1.4 mm (Di) that have a brim with 2.4 mm diameter. And the brim I have now, as follows, expanded to a shade diameter of about 3.3 mm.

In addition I have clamped the ferrules over a clamp core (1.4 mm) in my cordless screwdriver, then carefully widened the brim against a vise lathe center at low speed,

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/9857/jvhv.jpg)

in between was a two time controls the diameter, and finished the lampshade, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4838/x1h8.jpg)

here with the clamp core.

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9818/5o3i.jpg)

And these are ever the first 20 lampshades, whose casings must now be reduced only to about 1 mm.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1634/3i75.jpg)

Then it went back to the lighting, and this here is a lampshade with orange bead,

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5199/gx0u.jpg)

and here at the MLP during light test with the previous LEDs Pure White (0401).

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5563/4nus.jpg)

Since the glass beads towards the bottom are open, some white light still falls through to the bottom. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Meanwhile, I had ordered again SMD LEDs in  Sunny white  (0603 Micro litz wire) and  Golden white  (0603 with Cu-wire) that arrived today and of course had to be tested immediately.

The new LEDs No. 4 and 6 (0603: 0.9 mm x 1.6 mm x 0.8 mm) are significantly larger than the previously tested LEDs No. 5 (0401: 1.0 mm x 0.3 mm x 0.5 mm), here already connected for the light test.

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/4749/4t6a.jpg)

In this test, are now:

2 orange (with bead)
3 yellow (with bead)
4 orange (with bead)
5 pur white (without bead)
6 sunny white (without bead)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/230/ji7n.jpg)

And the Sunny white actually looks more friendly and warmer than the cold Pure white. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

And here's the comparison with the Golden white:

2 yellow (with bead)
3 orange (with bead)
4 golden white (without bead)
5 pur white (without bead)
6 sunny white (without bead)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7295/l4wl.jpg)

Please do not be confused by the numbering. No. 4, 5 and 6 here considered in a separate comparison, means to me:

The color of Golden white (4) and Sunny white (6) do not differ much, where Golden white (4) is even more expensive and a little bit warmer, but even shorter (about 160 mm) as Sunny white (6).

In any case, both colors for my taste are more pleasant and realistic than the cold Pure white (5), right? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

As far as for today. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/03/2014 02:08 PM
So for me personally the warm white light of the Sunny white LED also like quite well. And so here's the quick first test of such a LED in a nreduced lampshade in front of the wall to the right access platform compared to the already known cold light of Pure white LEDs.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1263/59ue.jpg)

The total overexposure, especially so close to the MLP wall, comes in the photo unfortunately much too crass out what I had described several times. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

In the original, this warm white light looks really moderate and fairly realistic and I like it compared to the cold white light under the Blast Shield quite well. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

If one now imagines this view with adjusted means of the current bank brightness, that should actually fit quite well.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/03/2014 06:24 PM
Yes.  That looks a lot better.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/03/2014 09:21 PM
Yep, but one should be able to photograph the lighting only better that it looks more realistic and not so overexposed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

Whoever can help or has a special tip? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 01/04/2014 05:22 PM
Excellent Manfred,   Happy New Years everyone  :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/04/2014 08:48 PM
Thanks Dave for your nice words and also Happy New Years! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Slowly light coming into the darkness! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/06/2014 03:44 AM
Here is the next update.

I've now tried all three White LEDs under the Blast Shields, though still without lampshade, which gives a very nice comparison of the color shades.

On the far left outside the Golden White LED with the warmest white, right next to the Sunny White LED, and the far right under the larger Blast Shield, the Pure White LEDs with the cold white.

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2001/wilm.jpg)

The different white color shades come out clearly, the Golden White perhaps the most pleasant appear, I think. But that is a matter of taste. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4234/l9e4.jpg)

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4002/t52w.jpg)

This probably should drop at least the Pure White for the MLP lighting finally out of the race. But that is on both the crawler and the tower here and there certainly still be used, I guess.

And so on with the lampshades. Their shade had indeed be shortened somewhat after the expansion, which is not so easy, as it turned out.

First, I clamped the shade casing on the clamping core and then tried to separate them freehand with the Dremel cutting disc just before the shade, in the hope that the shade is not somewhere flies away.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) Here I stopped shortly before.

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7194/jzp2.jpg)

Here you can see the shade separated, and right next to it the shade separated from a ferrule with plastic head. But as you can see, this is not a right shade because the tube extends even to the point of separation. Thus, these ferrules can not be used for lampshades. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/976/ht71.jpg)

Because of the shade needs a closed end to the top and the LED wires need a reasonably central guide, I have inserted a small bead (Da 1.5 mm, Di 0.8 mm), what would the whole production effort naturally increase. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8561/xa76.jpg)

In addition, the shades still must be sanded somehow at the separation point, what I've tried here over a plastic rod.

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1319/pk9o.jpg)

Since the free-hand cutting of the shades with the Dremel cutting disc but is not uniformly possible, I have reversed the handling, clamped the Dremel and then separated the shade on the core carefully at the running cut-off wheel.

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3513/thbw.jpg)

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7712/zrwt.jpg)

This works slightly better, but is still not the yellow of the egg. Maybe you have to also clamp the shade on the core in a small holder and then lead slowly towards the blade. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

So then look the first two shades.

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2214/hje7.jpg)

And now these parts have to be still further customized and finally also painted before the retraction of the LEDs, so all in all a murder effort. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

And that's why I'm wondering about whether I would rather not get the small lampshades from overseas, which should be probably easier to modify for LED lamps.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)  But maybe there is somewhere in it with us here in Europe?(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033778.jpg)  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033779.jpg)
Source: Ngineering.com

But since I have now for the first time (at least) one night sleep over it ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zzz.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/06/2014 04:40 AM
Miniatronics has some good lampshades.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/06/2014 07:53 AM
Only lamps or also lampshades? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/06/2014 01:29 PM
both.   check them out
http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/06/2014 04:14 PM
I have found only one species of Brass Lampshades HO Scale, which is unfortunately too large for my scale 1:160. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2014 11:09 AM
Hello Guys,

here is a picture of the comparison of the three "white" LEDs today in daylight.

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5672/tdc4.jpg)

And if I am to be honest, to me the  Golden White  (left) is almost a bit too much into yellow, compared to the  Sunny White  (right next to it). (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/07/2014 04:32 PM
To me the sunny white looks the most natural.   Left is toooo yellow and the right is to white and bright. 8)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2014 05:43 PM
Hi Tom,

I fully agree with you, slowly the picture is rounded off, and I also think that the  Sunny White  LEDs spread a fairly realistic and pleasant light that I will probably use for the MLP lighting. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And also on the FSS/RSS Tower I would imagine that good. At the Crawler there are around it but also some lamps that quite the Pure White would endure, especially the caution lights on the front and back side in front of the trucks, as seen on RichO's incredible Crawler. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/07/2014 09:04 PM
I have to agree on those lights.  The middle one looks great!  These projects really remind me of model railroads building construction.  Techniques seam very similar. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2014 09:41 PM
Thanks Ron for your nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Then we are almost all of opinion as regards the lighting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

This sounds all so slightly, but that will still cost some effort and provide sufficient stress to move the LEDs then neatly in place. Because up to now everything is still hanging around wildly in the area. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

Especially for building the FSS Towers with 12 floors I have to because even so think of something, especially with regard to assembly sequence, installation of PE-platforms including stairs, wiring of the LEDs up to the two-tone paint of the tower and the elevator shaft in the former STS-6 design, which probably needs to happen in advance. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But until then, there is still plenty of time to brood ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 01/10/2014 01:05 PM
MANFRED,

I to like the middle lighting the most. I'm glad to see that you have embraced the lighting concept and are proceding full steam ahead. This will kick your model into the stratosphere and beyond. I have been looking at your build reports when I could over the holidays and have been really impressed with the direction that you have taken. I'm glad to know that maybe I have infueneced you abit to try the lighting, and now just look!! Great modeling at it's best. Great job my friend, now just ten thousand more lights to go. LOL
__________________
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/11/2014 06:37 AM
Hi Rich,

thanks for your nice words which give me encouragement to keep pushing on with the lighting. Thanks again guys for all the support! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, you got me actually infected with this crazy virus, but I'm grateful to you for it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Meanwhile, I have overcome my respect and have tried a lot. And it's really true, which is now all no longer rocket science, especially since I still have found a specialist to help me in the design of the circuit. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

Now we're in the same boat and that is one of the profits that can be drawn from a forum like this and perhaps can be still some others guys also infected by this virus ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 01/14/2014 01:46 PM
Hi Guys, Manfred I kind of feel responsible for starting you on the Light Aspect of your Build..

back in 02/25/2013

Reply #158 on: February 25, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
 
All I can say is Wow...I'm not too Jealous 

Every Day this is one of the First places I Visit, to see this Shape into a Great Model..

Thanks for Sharing ,,,

I wonder if you intend to Add some Lighting , like under the Flame Blast shields
 with some small LEDS ??   Well anyway, You make Great Realistic Parts..

Dave
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/15/2014 10:38 PM
Hi Dave,

you are right, and I can remember your post almost a year ago with your proposal for lighting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

The thought was fascinating, just the time was not yet ripe for the realization. I had no experience with LED lighting and have not thought it possible, my MLP subsequently to illuminate under the blast shields already installed. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

Then I curiously followed Rich's first attempts to illuminate its outstanding crawler middle of last year and been astonished, what is possible already. But if I'm honest, the clutter of the many wires was terrifying.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But since then the thought was no longer out of my head and I had tasted blood, as I had seen some videos in our German Forums. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

And then Rich's successes have given me more and more courage, and you crazy guys have kept me going again too. And the rest is known, so now I can not stop!

Therefore thank you folks for all your support. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/15/2014 10:39 PM
Okay friends,

I just kept experimenting with the lampshades. For the upper end of the screen I have drilled a plastic rod (1.4 mm)  in the center with a 0.4 mm drill and then separated an approximately 1 mm long plate as lamp socket using a cutter.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/823/u6oj.jpg)

Then I threaded the healds of a Sunny White LED through this socket and the screen, angled the small chip LED carefully around 90,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035418.jpg)

and then all pulled together in the screen, so that the LED only protrudes minimal over the screen edge.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035419.jpg)

And as the test shows the connections are left intact, and lit up the warm white light. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)
Later, once the socket is glued before threading the wire into the screen and black colored bottom to prevent passage of light upwards.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035420.jpg)

Now here is the sample installation to be seen against the MLP wall,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035421.jpg)

and here's the lighting test, the light has completely outshined on the image again, as opposed to reality. Since the lamp lifts namely beautifully well in front of the moderate light shining down, and it looks great right out. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035422.jpg)

The overexposure effect was certainly to be intensified because the socket was not glued into the screen and the LED therefore still towered a bit too far out. This should be avoided at the lamps hanging freely in front of the MLP wall. But for the lamps that you can not see directly, such as above the bottom Access Platform at folding stairs to the crawler, I can certainly use such outliers. (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

So I'll try the next sockets of the screens to make it even a little bit shorter than before. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/17/2014 10:53 AM
Hi there,

today I've got an LED test box that has built a friend, together with a prepared lamp (with black painted shield) with a Sunny White LED. And of course I tried it immediately. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

With this cool box you can, inter alia, set the current of a single LED during the test to 2 mA, 3.5 mA, 5 mA and 8.5 mA, and thereby vary their brightness.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

The left Sunny LED with black shield is connected to the test box (2 mA), and the right Sunny LED as before with a flat battery (6 mA, 250 Ohm series resistor).

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035472.jpg) 

Now these are the different brightnesses on the left LED at  8.5 mA ,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035473.jpg)

here at 5 mA,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035474.jpg)

and here at 2 mA.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035475.jpg)

I think, that this brightness at 2 mA would actually be enough in my opinion, especially since the lamps hang relatively close to each other on the model. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

As far as for this comparison.

Now I can soon put the task for the  MLP  lamps in hand of the electricians.   (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Avron on 01/17/2014 10:56 AM
I agree 2mA.. looks good..
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/17/2014 11:01 AM
Thanks Avron, then we are one opinion! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 01/17/2014 12:48 PM
MANFRED,

    I think your scratch building of the lamp shields is just masterfull! I sure will not be going to such extents, I'll just use the stamped metal ones I found at the model railroad site.

  I feel that you have nailed the lamp situation with the construction, and with the wattage (2mA). When you get an entire side lit up I think this will look outragious! Just inform the newly established electricians dept. that the entire project may seem overwhelming at the moment, but just to concentrait on one side at a time and all will fall into place. When I got started with my lighting, it just seemed a bit to much at first, but slow and steady wins the race. ( I have vissions of the FSS/RSS all lit up!!)

  I am glad that Dave and I could convince you that, dealing with the infection will look so much better!! Now we all have to spread the virus so all will see the light.

  Congrtulations my friend, the build already going to look so kewel, keep up the great work!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 01/17/2014 04:20 PM
Kudos to the both of You. You would make Michelangelo Proud.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/17/2014 10:04 PM
MANFRED,

    I think your scratch building of the lamp shields is just masterfull! I sure will not be going to such extents, I'll just use the stamped metal ones I found at the model railroad site.

  I feel that you have nailed the lamp situation with the construction, and with the wattage (2mA). When you get an entire side lit up I think this will look outragious! Just inform the newly established electricians dept. that the entire project may seem overwhelming at the moment, but just to concentrait on one side at a time and all will fall into place. When I got started with my lighting, it just seemed a bit to much at first, but slow and steady wins the race. ( I have vissions of the FSS/RSS all lit up!!)

  I am glad that Dave and I could convince you that, dealing with the infection will look so much better!! Now we all have to spread the virus so all will see the light.

  Congrtulations my friend, the build already going to look so kewel, keep up the great work!!

Hi Rich,

thanks for your compliments and remarks.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033780.gif)

I would be happy if I could use your finished screens, then I could save myself a lot of work during the expansion of the shields. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  But unfortunately there is not for sale in Europe and the order in the U.S. plus shipping and duty is probably quite expensive and takes forever. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

You might send me like a handful shields in the letter to try some experiments (it's only a joke). (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

My first lighting attempts all just experiments but so far to collect experiences and impressions. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

BTW the overwhelming effect of the LED light is extremely unrealistic in the photos and seems to be an exposure effect of the digicam and the lighting conditions in my room, but in reality the MLP it looks really cool and not so outshined, don't understand. (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_eek2.gif)

But I can understand your concerns, the LED light is so bright that you must be careful that it is not too much for such a model.

It's really a pity that I can do the photos not better. Probability one should not take pictures with the automatic exposure of the digicam and should adjust the exposure manually. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

BTW, I have shown this picture before, what do you say now about this?

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3849/8lep.jpg)
Source: NASA

Overwhelming effect, or Launch Pad reality at night? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/17/2014 10:08 PM
Kudos to the both of You. You would make Michelangelo Proud.

Thanks Dave for your nice words, I'm glad if you like it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up033780.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/18/2014 09:48 PM
Hi folks & Rich,

when we have completed the lighting chapter, then it goes here to the next chapter: Countdown and Lift-off

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/0omw.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y85nQEX2jww)
Source: MrGoatchannel (YouTube)

From because there is no increase opportunities, that would be the ultimate challenge, or not? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)
BTW, then we'd have to build our MLP instead of paper from sheet metal. (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: SoheilEsy on 01/25/2014 04:59 PM
(http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/gr_eek2.gif)

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-nasa-launch-complex-shuttle-model/600347
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/25/2014 07:44 PM
I know these LC-39 3D Models, very impressive and a good help for structural studies. But for detailed studies on scratch building you need close-ups of the original real thing. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/25/2014 09:34 PM
Manfred is right.   And when you look at them in detail they are not entirely accurate.  It is much better to study the real thing.   Plus its more fun
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/27/2014 08:54 AM
Hi there folks,

yep Tom, we fully agree.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)  For example, looking for the lamps on the MLP Side-1 in these 3D models which I need for lighting the MLP now would hopeless. For this, you need good reference photos, close-ups possible.   (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

As you have already noticed, the lighting you have to advance quite carefully consider both in terms of laying the cables and lights on the model as well as its power supply or the distribution of the lamps on individual electric circuits.

Therefore, a more accurate inventory of lamps on the  MLP Side 1  now was necessary, I made reference to my standard reference image of the  STS-6 . After what I have been able to recognize it, were installed at the former  MLP-2  about 21 lamps that probably but not always, were all turned on simultaneously.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up036462.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com

And so it is now really seriously. I fear namely that the installation of LED lamps will probably be quite a tricky business, especially since most lamps must be mounted below the already installed  Blast Shields  somehow. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

And I would imagine that  lamps 1 - 9  to connect to a circuit and possibly already before laying to solder in series and then to attach. Against the wall (1 - 4) this might be relatively simple, and on the ceiling of the lower access platform (5 - 9) that should work too, because there are no cumbersome fittings there that are in the way. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Much more difficult, however, the wiring of the  lamps 10 - 21  seems to be, since they must be including feed cables probably be threaded individually under the canopies and then moved to the MLP wall down. There is simply not enough space to carry out and fix a lamp strand, let alone to solder wires from 0.1 mm, which is intended to illustrate this older picture again.

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1193/redlinemlp2.jpg)

Then the feed cables on the MLP underbody could be soldered to a circuit in series. From there, the supply and the return lines run for the current bank, which is connected to the power supply.

This is the current bank, an electronics freak built me, ​​with which I can supply eight independent circuits, each with up to 12 LEDs in series, with a constant current (6 mA).

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up036464.jpg)

And here I'm testing four series Sunny White LEDs using the test box at different brightnesses.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up036465.jpg)

Well, now I can start the preparation of the lamps. For this, the lamp shades must be painted first times that I've skewered on toothpicks here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/703/bjrx.jpg)

That's it for the beginning of this difficult chapter that will surely make even a few headaches. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/04/2014 10:37 PM
Hi folks,

and so we turn for a change to the TSM ladders, that eventually need to be finished, too. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

As you maybe can remember, those are these delicate PE ladders (0.15 mm), which must be treated with caution, as they very quickly can be deformed. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img200/84/m9ga.jpg)

Specifically, it is first of all to the ladders on the outer sides of TSMs. These have this continuous strip (red arrow) in the middle, that do not have the ladders on the front and back of the service boxes (green arrow).

(http://imageshack.com/a/img839/5757/o6c3.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here is a first fitting, and the size is quite good.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img833/6257/e7zz.jpg)

The difficulty is now that the ladders are standing on short struts, so approximately at a distance of 1.2 mm, for which I have here once inserted a spacer strips.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img713/1200/wlew.jpg)

Before tricky assembly, I first glued the median strip, and even that is a stressful affair in these gossamer ridge widths. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif) Therefore, one must necessarily fix the ladder and the strip and can only getting progressively stick with tiny droplets, to which have used this time the liquid "10 sec Superglue".

(http://imageshack.com/a/img703/1562/5af9.jpg)

And that looks like this.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img577/7131/xrg3.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/8629/zlci.jpg)

Now, however, the feet need to be attached, wherefore I really wanted to take a railing with the same width. But how to best and safest glue, without it's going wrong now? (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img31/4537/4zyo.jpg)

So I am still wondering whether I should glue the ladder on the railing, or just separately cut the feet and glue and then bend over what I imagine almost easier to me. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Stressful would certainly be both. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/09/2014 10:05 PM
Hello together,

now I have made some tests to glue the supports on the ladder, but it requires also suitable adhesive in these delicate structures, the only wetted difficult. Therefore, one should take for better liquid glue and no gel. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

In order not to disfigure the prepared ladder, I have taken a damaged ladder for the tests and glued a rest strip. But the positioning of such thin parts when gluing with superglue is not easy, that's a problem.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034424.gif) 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/mi29.jpg)

In such smallest contact surfaces is the danger large that the part may peel off again, which is also happening. And then you have to clean the parts again and re-glue as the adhesive surface was simply too small.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

Then I bent the support feet, where they can become detached again.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/ekkh.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/yykn.jpg)

But the result still not convinced me, and maybe I need another solution for fixing the supports on the ladder. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  So I've been looking for a liquid Superglue with a fine needle and found this here. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037138.jpg)
Source: http://www.glitzerperlen.de

This is a high quality jewelry glue GS Hypo Cement (http://www.glitzerperlen.de/Schmuck-Kleber-rot-G-S-Hypo-Cement-9-ml), with which you can attach beads exactly onto wires or cords. With its micro fine dosing of 0.7 mm, this adhesive is suitable for the very smallest parts and the precise dosage, which can bring, for example, even the smallest amounts of adhesive into a bead. He sticks et al glass, metal, stone, ceramics, beads and dries clean and clear (drying time approx 10 min.).

I think, this adhesive could also help me in the preparation of small lampshades for lighting the MLP, I will try. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/09/2014 10:20 PM
I am amazed by your ability to find a solution to any problem you encounter!  It is a privilege and joy to watch!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/10/2014 08:45 PM
Thanks Ron for your nice words, but there is a solution for everything, you only have to look long enough. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

That's why I want to come back to this picture again.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/mi29.jpg)

Above the ladder is a clamp that possibly could still come into consideration as a solution for the ladder support. I've even bent for test purposes from 0.25 mm steel wire for a single step, sitting at the top of the TSM's almost as an extension of the ladders on the sides of the service boxes, as can be seen here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/191/c8e0.jpg)
Source: NASA

By using of such clamps as ladder supports the long ladder might get a more stable grip than with the thin PE supports. These clamps one could stick in the distance of the supports in pre-punched holes and then carefully glue the ladder punctual, for which one would need about 10 pieces.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/fpl7.jpg)

Here the ladder is only once placed trial basis.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/542/6ahc.jpg)

This solution would indeed mean by the brackets also some effort, but it would probably totaling more stable, but I only have to let go in peace through the head. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Meanwhile, I have also experimented with the lamp shades on and found these tiny tubes or beads for the sockets.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/827/h814.jpg)
Source: www.i-perlen.de

Are the crimp tubes (left) and crimp beads (right) of silver-plated nickel, having an inner diameter of 0.8 mm and an outer diameter of 1.3 mm,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/560/sa7c.jpg)

and thus fit into the shielding sleeves, here with inserted tube.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/706/ze5z.jpg)

And here's even a Sunny White LED trial basis threaded, so what is feasible in principle. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/691/yi6y.jpg)

As far as times for today. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 02/11/2014 12:31 AM
MANFRED,

  Your ability to find solutions to your problems is very admirable. I am learning a lot about finding solutions to my build problems. Like you said " you only have to look long enough" .. To quote Qui gon Jin "I'm sure another solution will present itself" It's with this philosophy that I have finaly found a solution to my build quandary. Thanks for your inspiration!   

  The ladders are looking very cool, and the crimp beads look like they will be just what you need for your lighting chapter. Keep up the great work, your an inspiration to us all.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/11/2014 01:27 PM
Thanks Rich for your appreciative words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, there are usually multiple solutions to a problem. Therefore, one must always experiment and fiddle about before you decide. And of this solution you must then be convinced that it is better than another. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And for a better solution you have to develop new ideas. And therefore I think about that sometimes a few days and weigh up the pros and cons. To see clearly, often will do a change of perspective. And very often there are also the valuable tips from other forum members, providing new ideas and assistance. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

The decisive criterion is then at the end of the feasibility, which is why you often have to choose compromise solutions. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

These are my experiences. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 02/11/2014 06:51 PM
Words to live by. Thanks
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/16/2014 09:24 PM
Hello friends,

and because I now have clarity on the lampshades, I wanted directly times start with the preparation of a first major series. But I can tell you this small stuff keeps quite on. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

After widening of the screens I have this put on toothpicks and then placed each a 1 mm mark for cutting  under the magnifying glass so that the results reasonably uniform lengths. Just out of the hollow of the hand that will not work. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nein.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/pavb.jpg)

And then it started with the cut of the shades with the Dremel cutting disc, in which I have placed the toothpick on a solid base.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/545/wsvs.jpg)

In the first experiments I have kept the top on the left side with my fingertips, what's not recommended, as the matter during separation is felt hot. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)  And I had to hold these things tight, otherwise they fly right away what happened to me at the beginning. But with tweezers, it went much better.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/35/zk1i.jpg)

And these are the first 17 of a total of 33 shades in the first series I have cut. Larger burrs I have ground on the side of the running disc.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/854/2mmw.jpg)

And then even the small crimp tubes for the bulb sockets was next step,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/31/ho5h.jpg)

which I glued with Superglue.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/823/xx1w.jpg)

And here are the parts with the threaded Sunny White LED. In this state, I now want to paint the shades even from outside, and only then, the LEDs can be threaded. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/89/7v1z.jpg)

So all in all a pretty tricky procedure, which will be quite stressful ...  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Mickle makes also pretty much crap, hard to believe, but true.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/18/2014 10:33 PM
Let's go on with the lamps. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

When installing the  Sunny White LEDs  and the centering crimp tubes in the shortened lampshades you have now to take care, among other things the mounting depth, so that the light emission is shielded as possible. If the LED namely to protrude as far out of the screen, you get too much blinding light around what was seen in the beginning and does not look so great. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

To get now the LEDs in a horizontal position as far into the screen into it, I was thinking the following principle. When gluing the tubes, they should, if possible slightly protrude further into the socket, because the little wires still also need some space.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/607/5xu3.jpg)

As the warm white  Sunny White LEDs (0603)  unfortunately are not as tiny as the  Pure White (0401)  you have a little to fiddle with the geometry, especially as the LEDs are 1.6 mm wide after all.

For this you have now to bend the wires strands soldered to the sides of the chip gently to the middle and then thread it through the screen and the tube,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/69/o4nr.jpg)

what it looks like this.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/268/0ud4.jpg)

And as you can see, this arrangement works quite well on the installation depth here, and the LED closes nicely flush with the screen.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/28/4gfq.jpg)

And now we can see the effect of different light emission quite well. At the left, the LED lamp fits perfectly in the screen. The right lamp is my first prototype in which the LED protrudes too far out of the screen, resulting in a brighter light to escape and to unsightly blinding. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/845/yb7m.jpg)

Although these are just subtleties, but the visual effect is remarkable, I think. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

In this sense, it can now go further.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/18/2014 11:43 PM
For what it is worth, I agree.  It makes a big difference.  Great work!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/20/2014 09:55 PM
Thanks Ron,
I fully agree with you, that's the way I'll go on with the lighting! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 02/21/2014 12:24 AM
Manfred:

YES..... that effect looks great now.  Subdued a bit.  Looks so realistic.

Tom
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 02/21/2014 04:27 PM
Almost Spot on, Great Stuff Manfred
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/21/2014 04:44 PM
Thanks Tom and Dave for your encouraging words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, the lighting chapter is really a tricky matter, but still in the test phase. There should be carefully considered maturely each step before the final countdown. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 02/21/2014 08:07 PM
MANFRED,

A lot like my lighting, in that the look in the photos is different than in real life. The light on the left seem just a little better looking in your photos. If your build is like mine the lights look better in person. Good luck with the building of all the lamps that you have yet to construct.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/21/2014 08:23 PM
Yep Rich,

this is the well-known effect of the bright LED light when you photograph, luckily it looks in reality much better and not nearly as garish. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Thank you for your good wishes for the scratch-building of the felt 10.000 lamps of the Launch pad. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

This might be similar to the felt 100.000 chain links of your crawler tracks, you have to build, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)  for which I wish you greatest success and also a lot of fun. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 02/24/2014 01:52 PM
YES MANFRED,

  This tread construction is an ongoing adventure. The idea of starting to cut out the treads is just to reduce the bordeom when the actual time comes to work on this chapter. Right now even tho cutting these treads seem overwhelming, I am having fun with these, because I'm not under any pressure to work on 'em just yet.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2014 07:55 AM
Hi Rich,

that's right, the tiny details remain all time a challenging adventure for us. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)  And I also do not put under unnecessary pressure during building, but wants to delight me in it. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2014 11:02 AM
Today, I have now started to test production of lampshades. When gluing the tiny tubes (1,3 x0,9 mm) in the screens you need any aid, because you can no longer hold in the tweezers without them jump away if suddenly. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) You also have to make sure that applying only very small doses of the superglue, otherwise there is a disaster.

Therefore, it is best if you bead the screen and the tube on a needle,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/607/nuxv.jpg)

and then the tubes dabbed with superglue, but without coming here to the needle, otherwise you must start over again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) But this is possible under the magnifying glass, if you are careful enough and a steady hands has.

And these are the first lampshades.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/545/hq1u.jpg)

Here I have tried a pattern, without widening the shield of the end ferrule before. This screen you could possibly use for the caution lights that are slightly smaller in diameter. Therefore I'm going to order some red LEDs. Would then have only one suitable cover over it as a bell or glass shade, possibly a pearl, let's see. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/839/ywfh.jpg)

Now with the finished lampshades I wanted to simulate the four lamps on the right MLP side to find out how I could best fix. As you can see in the next picture, the lamps do not sit on the reinforcement bracers, as in the later missions, but in the interstices and are apparently attached to a thin support rail.
 
(http://imageshack.com/a/img23/2774/qy3q.jpg)
Source: NASA

This arrangement is seen here as an interim solution on an assembly sketch. Initially, I threaded the  Sunny White LEDs  and fixed the wires with tape. Then I glued the support rail of steel wire (0.3 mm) with tiny superglue droplets on the sockets, this somewhat off-center, so the screens do not directly abut the wall.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/560/jwk6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/855/8y05.jpg)

Then I have connected the LEDs in series with each other, you have to really look closely, thus always positive pole comes to the negative pole ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) The positive pole of the LEDs can be recognized because his wire is about 10 mm longer. And this time I did not use a flat battery as before, but my current bank with power supply.

And as you can see, apparently everything is connected correctly.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/404/m2is.jpg)

Then I have this LED linkage temporarily attached to the MLP wall to test the lighting effect in front of the wall.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/706/gwei.jpg)

The first sees again surprisingly bright, but in reality is not nearly as blatant. This may be because, firstly, that the LEDs are now powered by the current bank (constant current source) with constant  6 mA  and perhaps my flat battery has delivered of a lower current. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif) But but undoubtedly, the combination of the four LEDs on a relatively small area has an impressive light. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/600/f79e.jpg)

As a result of the brightness test with the test box I had anyway tend to lower current intensities of 2 to 3.5 mA. So I'm going to replace tomorrow the fixed resistor (47 Ohm) to a variable resistor in order to reduce the current and the brightness adjust anything else.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/89/tx5u.jpg)

And here is the comparison to the bright cold light of  Pure White LEDs  I've used first. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/849/80ul.jpg)

As you can see, everything want to be tested only once, before you can commit and start to the final assembly ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 02/25/2014 07:02 PM
lookin good Manfred
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2014 08:53 PM
Thanks Tom for your nice words.  8)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2014 09:26 PM
So, and here, as already announced, the tests with the variable resistor in one circuit of the current bank. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/31/6mzd.jpg)

Here are the Sunny White LEDs with adjusted lowest current of 1,5 mA,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/802/1z00.jpg)

and in comparison with the bright Pure White LEDs.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/541/rbom.jpg)

Here with 4 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/829/titq.jpg)

Here at the maximum setting of about 8 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/541/e7m9.jpg)

And here without room illumination at 1,5 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/829/perw.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/46/6jkv.jpg)

And here the slow expiration of the LEDs after power-off, so even lower brightness than the 1,5 mA.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/3py2.jpg)

So friends of the LED light, now judge for yourself, I hope that for every taste is catered for. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/26/2014 04:26 PM
Hello folks,

and here again a little addendum to the lighting tests in daylight, at

current 1,5 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/d68e.jpg)

current 8 mA*:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/24/z289.jpg)

current 1,5 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/855/fck5.jpg)

current 8 mA*:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/534/s4me.jpg)

Only again to clarify, the lighting under the Blast Shields with the  Pure White LEDs  have always unchanged by flat battery (parallel connection), the  Sunny White LEDs  by current bank/power supply (series connection).

* At the specified current  8 mA  at minimum position of the variable resistor is relativized to say that the ammeter was at the stop of the scale, the last value  6 mA  was given. Consequently, the current was > 6 mA . (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  Current  1.5 mA  was measured at the maximum position of the variable resistor.

When measuring the current in Pure White-circuit the ammeter was also at the stop, the current was also > 6 mA.

This confirms once again the now generally known trend that you should go down with the current possible further by increasing the resistance because of light effect then looks more realistic. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Accordingly, you should definitely aspire to lower current levels by about  0.5 mA . (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/27/2014 07:46 PM
Well, now the picture becomes more clearly in the direction of lower amperage, whereupon it is then also run out. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Today I have made ​​a lighting test on the left  Access Platform AP1  and used the lamp linkage from the right side because the dimensions about the same. But the temporary installation of the lamps under the blast shield  was quite difficult and did not want to really succeed at first, until it is then still halfway succeeded me. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Here are the first pictures of this afternoon, even without room illumination, which could correspond approximately to a twilight atmosphere on the pad.

In the following pictures I have chosen only the preference setting in  1.5 mA  in  Sunny White LEDs  now that  Pure White  hanging, however, as usual on the flat battery.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/191/6tq2.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/hw1x.jpg)

As you can see, the lighting looks pretty well, I think. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/khyf.jpg)

Although the lamps hanging a little too low and too far forward, but I came with the lamps unfortunately only up to the diagonal support struts of the blast shield.

But as one can see in this picture here, the lamps hanging further back, about the middle of the shield. But I just wanted to see how the lighting looks under the canopy, and this test is always enough.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/31/3he2.jpg)
Source: NASA

In these images, with ceiling lighting now everything looks a bit more realistic. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/401/l5gk.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/543/fu9n.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/546/bzew.jpg)

So, I'm in any case more than satisfied with these impressions, and that gives buoyancy for further work! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 02/27/2014 08:24 PM
MANFRED,

It looks like you have got a good grip on the situation. The Sunny White light looks very close to the actual photos. My hats off to the Lighting Department. Now we want to see this MLP side with Sunny Light only. Great work!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/27/2014 08:59 PM
Thanks Rich for your nice words, I am also a little proud of myself that I have reached this level. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Thanks again for your inspiration, otherwise I would never have started with the lighting story. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Now can follow the next step and I can start with the serial production of the Sunny White lamps, so the Side 1 will soon shine only in warm white lighting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/28/2014 02:06 AM
You should be proud, this is amazing.   From the level of detail to the lights, it is a work of art.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/28/2014 08:23 PM
Hello Ron,

thanks for the compliments, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)  I like it now also, the effort was worth it. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

With lighting, everything looks more realistic. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/05/2014 08:20 AM
And for a change, now again on the TSM ladders. Since I still had experimented with the base of the ladders. In addition I originally wanted to try this railing part, or bend the ladder supports individually.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/716/i98s.jpg)

For the bend I have this brass square profile (3x3 mm) used and first time bent over a support from 0,2 mm brass wire,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/600/petr.jpg)

what would nearly fit to the ladder width.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/6s5i.jpg)

So I have now bent the supports of the railing as well,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/s4pf.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/542/sxe1.jpg)

and adapted this base on the ladder. And as you can see, you can pretty well align the ladder from the rung spacing and width to the substructure. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/21/fqrl.jpg)

But if you look closely, you can see another problem, which I had not considered when bending the ladders. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)  Since the ladder rungs are after bending on the cutting mat minimally below the ladder stile, there is a small gap between the stile and the longitudinal strips of the base, which I'm so not like. That should both lie close to sticking it well. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/d936.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/18/6jq3.jpg)

In this picture the gap is a little bit clearer.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/823/v5ai.jpg)

Since I'll probably have to think of something during bending so that the ladder rungs do not protrude downward. And if that does not work, maybe the variant with the individual supports is indeed expensive, but possibly better solution. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/06/2014 01:05 PM
Hello all together,

during my current crosstrainer tour I again considered back and forth, and now I probably still choose the variant with the individual ladder supports. That with the substructure of the rail but is not as the yellow of the egg, especially because this variant would be suitable only for the two ladders at the outer sides of the TSMs. And also, the handling of this extremely fragile structures, in particular in the attachment on the TSM that's not for the faint of heart. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

Since the supports of the four ladders at the side of the Service Platform boxes are standing both on the boxes as well next to it, the legs of the rail for the longer sub-assembly supports at the left side of the ladders would be too short. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)  And also the distances between the supports to the spars of the base are almost twice as large as the original. Therefore, it is more favorable overall, choose the other variant for the TSM ladders, which I am now going to put all on the same principle to individual posts. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/577/its2.jpg)
Source: NASA

That's why I tried here once with this variant further, which was already in the last post shortly see,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037526.jpg)

and have prepared two supports from 0.3 mm brass wire, which are about 1.3 mm above the ground.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/28/kg4k.jpg)

And so it then looks with applied ladder, where then every 5th rung a support will stand.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/qyvs.jpg)

Since we're on the rungs, as there are above the ladders also four smaller individual rungs to the fastener sitting above, as can be seen in this picture. I also wanted to try still the same on the occasion.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037551.jpg)
Source: NASA

For this I used 0,2 mm brass wire. For these rungs, as well as in the ladder supports discussed above, it is advisable to make one foot a little longer, because this positioning and insertion is made easier in the pricked holes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/g5ni.jpg)

Here a first rung is inserted. Because now follow two rungs below and one above.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/35/fyd7.jpg)

That's enough for today with these little details that in any case unlikely to be visible on the finished model. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Bubbinski on 03/08/2014 01:17 PM
Whoa....love the lighting job!  I've never lit up a model before, ever.  That is something I've been wanting to experiment with.

All those little details including the ladder will make your project stand out.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/08/2014 03:30 PM
Thanks Bubbinski for the nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, the lighting breathes new life into the MLP, but it is also a rather difficult chapter, which costs a lot of extra time. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/08/2014 03:36 PM
Hi there,

today even a little bit transverse patch. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

I had already a long time ago a  Bug (4'')  bought, which is this great bending tool here, which at latest for bending PE parts from the  LVM detail kits  should be used, which must then be bent at the Tower in all directions. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/196/fx6b.jpg)

This tool I have now used for bending this little ladder steps on the top of the TSMs, and that is really better than using tweezers, since you can clamp the part to be bent under the fingers and then turn around calm.

And then today came also the red LEDs (0401), and therefore I have made a first test.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/138/m5uq.jpg)

These LEDs I want to use for the caution lights (beacons).

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/401/5e1n.jpg)
Source: NASA

And so there was suddenly a practice alarm without warning,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/46/tj17.jpg)

only they do not blink, but this is also provided. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Well, now I'm going to dismount the  Pure White LEDs  and replace soon by the  Sunny White. And now the lampshades have to get the finishing touch and paint before they go into the electrical workshop. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)
So boredom can not arise, it is going round ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 03/11/2014 09:53 PM
MANFRED,

  Your build looks so pretty with the colored lights! I know that you will get all the lights the same soon. The idea of the red safety lights is very cool, I like very much. Also I feel for you man, with the really small ladder parts, I know, I've been there.

  With spring getting hear fast, I anticipate everybody will be slowing down a bit with the reports, a lot of stuff to do to get ready for better weather. Love your work, keep it up!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/12/2014 11:15 PM
Thanks Rich for your nice comment. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Everything takes its time, and the smaller the parts are, the more increases the own respect for the work. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 03/16/2014 08:30 PM
Come on Manfred! I know about the low energy we have to deal with from time to time. Keep your spirits up and keep building. Your build is inspiring a lot of builders, myself included as you know. We all need to feed off each other's energy. Mine is through the roof at the moment and I hope I can send some your way my friend. On with the show!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/16/2014 10:08 PM
That's right Rich, you understand and I fully agree with you. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)
This is our destiny, and we must make each other again and again hope and new courage. (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/bananen/bananen-smilies-0098.gif)

Thanks for your support guys! The show should and must go on! (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/24/2014 12:59 PM
Hello together,

after a light spring fatigue I have browsing in the meantime, some older images sources according to the hazard warning lights. But somehow I have not the right clarity, as with these red and/or yellow beacons of those days back in the STS-6 on MLP-2. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

So far, my friends from the NSF forum unfortunately could not help me too, but I stumbled across a very interesting thread that makes me high hopes. So I have found a contemporary witness (39B), who has worked at the time during the reconstruction and modification of the Pad 39B there and has been reported about in detail with although partially slightly yellowed, but still great photo scans. And if there were any technical ambiguities, what you may not believe it, he was more often on the Pad 39A, so always close to the base. Maybe he can answer my special questions. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Since I now know the lamps pretty good on the FSS and the MLP, I have now started, the lights on the RSS to look a little closer. And this my standard reference photo is again a good overview.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/703/dqad.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

And as you can see it, there are the same lamps are mounted as in MLP with the classic lampshades. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/845/fjxs.jpg)

On the newer "old" photos the lamp shape becomes even clearer as the following pictures show.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/21/2mj1.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/833/ytuk.jpg)
Source: J. MacLaren (39B) NASASpaceflight.com

And so I can use my recent lampshades from the ferrules for the RSS lamps. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Of course I've tried and picked out the lamps from the Revell kit.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up038048.jpg)

These are the arc lamps here, of which 40 pcs. are included in the kit, but they were never installed in this spherical shape on the pads. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nein.gif) 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/59/kbzg.jpg)

And that's why I like my screen lamps but much better,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/bkqv.jpg)

or what do you think? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/513/4aok.jpg)

Okay, the arcs are 1 mm in diameter, what's a little too strong, but I would anyway prefer to use a thinner brass tube in order to thread the LED wires still. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/89/cw5s.jpg)

So long for now.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/28/2014 05:11 PM
Have the same time my thin brass tubes checked and in  0.7mm  diameter found one. And here two Cu wires are trial basis threaded with diameter 0.15 mm, which is still so relatively easily. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up038780.jpg)

For my lampshades with about 3 mm in diameter, the pipes should have 0,5 mm diameter to remain about the scale but also to realize them. Such brass tubes with a diameter of 0.5 mm and 0.09 mm wall thickness there are also with STEBA (http://www.steba.org/).

Although the bending radius of the arc lamps is relatively large, you would have the LED wires but probably be inserting before bending of the tubes, because this should be any more difficult in the bent state, but were up to trying.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up038047.jpg)
Source: J. MacLaren (39B) NASASpaceflight.com

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/xpzm.jpg)
Source: J. MacLaren (39B) NASASpaceflight.com

For information only on the edge for all Space Shuttle historian:

How do I know now of J. MacLaren, on his photos (between Christmas and New Year 1985) one can see the  Challenger  in preparation for the first shuttle launch from the new  Pad 39B  for mission  STS-51L (01/28/1986), which was known to her fate mission. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 03/30/2014 12:46 PM
MANFRED,

Your light shields look great! Much better than the kit lights. I hadn't really noticed the globe lamp covers in the kit. I should study the parts better. However this is not a project to be started just yet. I have plenty of other builds going on right now. I'm excited to see some more bending for the light shield supports. The brass tubing will hide the wiring nicely.

Long live the memory of those we lost on STS-51L.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/30/2014 01:41 PM
RICH,

although these Heroes have lost their lives, they will remain immortal in the memory of men for all time. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Again to the arc lamps, to get a thinner tube one could use the actual metal tube as the return conductor so that one only has to thread one wire through the tube. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

For this I first have to solder every negative pole of the LEDs to the brass tubes and then connect each brass tube by a soldered wire to the next.
 
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/62/fl0g.jpg)

That is certainly a greater effort than threading the wires. And threading the wires from 0.1 mm over this short length of about 20 mm should already be doable, I think. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore first I will try to pull the wires through the tube, maybe it will work. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Squack on 03/31/2014 10:15 AM
Hi Manfred,

Using the brass tube as a conductor is a great idea, the wire out of the end will then look just like the wires in the photos.

One word of warning though...

Getting solder to stick to the pipe will be tricky, especially if your solder has flux built in to it. The bead of solder will tend to form with the flux underneath, on the pipe, and the whole thing will pop off very easily and make a bad connection. You may want to investigate roughing up the pipe with sandpaper or even drilling a small hole to solder the wire into to ensure you get a good connection.

Hope that helps with your awesome build.

Squack.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/01/2014 10:15 PM
Hello folks,
we stay a little longer in lighting, because it's just so beautiful tricky. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) Since I still had to glue the centering tubes in the shortened lampshades,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/703/us7g.jpg)

which was to do it again only under the microscope. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  And since the tubes have some clearance in the shielding sleeves, the superglue-gel (Pattex) proved when gluing but suitable as better than the liquid superglue (UHU) I had used before. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/20/68n4.jpg)

Thus, there are not only the "classical" lampshapes on the MLP, the almost entirely on the pad (FSS/RSS) are installed, but also some lamps without a pronounced screen, as can be seen in this picture. These are, inter alia, the two lamps above the LOX Valve Skid, below the right TSM.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037282.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

And also the hazard warning lights (beacons) have a similar shape with a glass cover,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up036998.jpg)
Source: NASA

which is why I modified these lamps something. In addition I have used the same ferrules, but not expanded, but only reduced accordingly with the Dremel cutting disc.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/42/v5ns.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/811/gh85.jpg)

These are the lampshades right in the picture, next to the tiny tubes that were now still glued,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/34/e6b8.jpg)

what looks like when finished.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/k6j4.jpg)

For the hazard warning lights I have now picked out a few more suitable transparent tube beads for the glass cover and trial strung, what ever does not look bad. The pods I can possibly cut something else and I'm still looking out for something shorter beads from my stuff, then the shape has come out quite well, I think. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/19/xrfw.jpg)

And as a test I now have threaded a red LED (0401) with the thin copper wires (0.1 mm), and low and behold, the tiny LED fit even along through the bead through, what the solution is somewhat simplified. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/41/8ozo.jpg)

And then I only had to connect the LED to my current bank, and the signal red lit up. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/541/8lmp.jpg)

And for the two lamps under the blast shield I will also find a solution, but the Sunny White LEDs (0603) to be used there, unfortunately are slightly larger than the tiny red LEDs and therefore require a slightly different solution. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

That's it again for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/04/2014 05:02 PM
MANFRED,

The Lighting Dept. is shinning brightly with these new solutions that you have come up with. Now the mass production starts!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 04/04/2014 06:51 PM
cant wait to see his electric bill :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/04/2014 09:49 PM
Hello you faithful guys,

and thanks for your encouraging words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

I'll try to bite me through this tricky and time-killing lighting chapter. (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)

BTW, the blue-eyed guys of the Lighting Dept. need to check their stock, if they have enough stuff for all the lamps. Only for the FSS tower they have to prepare about 100 lamps, without the Access arms. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif), I think, I must be a little bit crazy!!! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 04/04/2014 11:20 PM
Those lights look great!  Between the two Pad builds here, I am learning a lot about the details of those pads.  Enough to know I never want to try a build this detailed!  I will stick to the rockets!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/05/2014 10:07 AM
Thanks Ron for your kind words, but that should not discourage you, even once to try a Launch pad build. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

You know, one should never say never. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/05/2014 01:24 PM
Glad to know we are helping to drive you a little bit crazy!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 04/06/2014 02:28 AM
I look at all of my rocket models, and think I am already a bit crazy!  I am just glad I didn't build the 1/144th scale VAB I wanted to do years ago!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/17/2014 09:19 AM
Hello folks, let's go on!

By looking for the hazard warning lights in age-old image collections from the 80s so I've got further researched and studied this time the lighting on the Access arms of the Tower (OAA, OVA, HVA), but to do sometime soon in more detail. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/lnw7.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

Today I want to show a quick update to the lamps whose mass production is now underway. These are again the normal lampshades for the lamps on the MLP Access Platforms left in the picture from the expanded ferrules (3 mm), as well as the unexpanded screens (2,4 mm) for the hazard warning lights, which are in the small dish. For this I had already found the matching glass beads, in which one just could fit the red LEDs (0401).

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/1emy.jpg)

Then I still had looked for matching glass beads for the lamps 11, 12 and 17 with a slightly larger hole,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/826/j49i.jpg)

and found actually beads with a diameter of 2.2 mm in which the slightly larger Sunny White LEDs (0603) would fit longitudinally. Here one of these LEDs is even threaded in such a bead.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/845/86x4.jpg)

Here you can now see two variants, the top for a lamp with a expanded screen, and the bottom one with unexpanded screen, which actually both could be used, because these minimal differences can hardly be distinguished under the Blast Shields anyway. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up038891.jpg)

Then briefly to the planned reconstruction of the Current Bank, what already had indicated as a result of extensive brightness tests by reducing the power intensity of the LEDs in the direction of 0.5 mA. In addition I have now begun to replace the fixed resistors (47 Ω) by variable Mini Trimmers (1 kΩ),  because the light effect should look even more realistic.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/836/7i1a.jpg)

And here the first Mini trimmer has been soldered.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/845/lc7x.jpg)

And to finish for today two tests with a Sunny White LED with minimum setting of the trimmer (> 6 mA), i.e. maximum brightness,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/836/8p55.jpg)

and here at maximum trimmer setting (0,5 mA) and reduced brightness.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/843/z153.jpg)

And with these parameters, the final current bank for the whole Launch Pad is now designed that offers even better performance than the previous one, which I will present soon. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Next, the remaining fixed resistors to be replaced by the trimmer. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/17/2014 09:02 PM
And I've still done, finally does come the Easter Bunny. (http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Ostern/ostern_10.gif)

And so the current bank now looks with the eight trimmers. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif) 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/841/u6q3.jpg)

Because the place for soldering was pretty tight, I have omitted to insulating sleeving. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

For my part I'm fully satisfied, all beginnings are difficult ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)  And the most important thing is that all circuits have passed the function test with flying colors. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/tongue.gif)

So now the existing eight circuits, each with up to 12 LEDs in series let set with the same or different brightness and off separately. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif) At the pad all the lights were finally not always switched on simultaneously and shined with the same brightness as one could see. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

In this sense, all of you a Happy Easter!

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Ostern/smileygarden_ostern7.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 04/18/2014 03:57 PM
Same to you Manfred.... :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/18/2014 05:42 PM
  The Electrical Egineering Dept has nailed it!! These thing do take up a lot of time but what results? A great looking build that everyone just marvels at. Great work!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/18/2014 09:36 PM
Hi Rich,

I fully agree with you, the lighting is the icing on the cake. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif) You've convinced me to happiness, thank you my friend. (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/377.gif)

I would never have dared to do this modeling madness and have tried it anyway: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/24/2014 09:23 PM
Hi there,

so after hopefully all Easter eggs were found of you, it will go on again.

Coming soon the prepared lampshades should be painted before the LEDs can be glued in. Unclear to me was previously only how to hold tiny creatures (3 mm). After some thought, I came up with the following solution that should work.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/hlp3.jpg)

Since the lampshades are painted gray from the outside, they should stand upright, but also can not fly off when airbrush. Therefore, I have stung pins through a Balsa strip and placed ferrules on the tops, and then the shades were threaded, and ready is the Painting Support (PS). (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Here 24 slots are first prepared and stocked, the PS may also be extended.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/burs.jpg)

To avoid that light comes out upwards, I have the screens painted up black. If then the gray paint comes over it, which  then should actually suffice, if not, still a splash of color comes on top after threading the LEDs. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039259.jpg)

Consequently, then the first series can go for painting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Then I again experimented with the special lamps (11,12,17) and further tested two variants. In addition I wanted the Sunny White (0603) longitudinally thread in the larger glass tube, which just fits so.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/2kaj.jpg)

And two of these couples I have now threaded each in an unexpanded screen (right) and into an expanded screen (center). On the left is then compared with a standard lamp (3 mm) with cross inlaid LED, as used for all other lamps on the pad.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/unxh.jpg)

Here with > 6 mA, which is very brightly, as expected, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/3xtj.jpg)

here with 3 mA, somewhat more subdued,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/nmcz9.jpg)

and here with 0,5 mA, with relatively moderate light.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/5vt1.jpg)

In the right variant you have the unimpeded light exit of the LED, which is literally blinding and not recommended.The middle variant seems to me quite reasonable and would differ so from the other lamps.

So far again for today.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 04/24/2014 09:25 PM
Englisch sprechen manfred :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/24/2014 09:32 PM
Hi Tom,

a little German would not be bad, but I can help you. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/26/2014 01:14 PM
MANFRED,

  Watching your "bead work" here is really growing on me. I like the idea of being able to see the glass "domes" around the lamps. Nice.  I think the middle light at 0,5 mA is correct also, a nice feel to it. Great work dude!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 04/27/2014 10:26 PM
Thanks Rich for your nice comment, here comes the continuation.

I can not shake the stage fright, (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) and therefore I again thought about the red flashing warning lights,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up036998.jpg)
Source: NASA

for which I had procured the Red LEDs (0401). (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

For these lampshades I want to use the unexpanded ferrules. For the glass body I had initially thought of a transparent bead. But since the hazard warning lights under the outer glass body have a red insert, a reddish bead would be better suited what I wanted to try and compare, let's go the whole hog. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/2lql.jpg)

Here you can see both versions at full brightness (> 6 mA), which makes color virtually no difference. Only the brightness with the transparent bead appears to be somewhat stronger, but this is insignificant.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/845/7gvo.jpg)

And here are the test results at the moderate brightness (0.5 mA), where the effect appears in the image paler than in reality.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/msn5.jpg)

Here I have trial basis attached both beads in shades with a tiny superglue droplet, so that the warning light as such is already purely externally visible, which I like better. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/qneb.jpg)

Now I have threaded the LEDs in both lamps,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/wrua.jpg)

and tested the optical effect as described above:

> 6 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/zq5j.jpg)

0,5 mA:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/841/v5on.jpg)

How was almost expect to see the effects are similar. Therefore, I will probably decide to red glass beads. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

So the stressful testing with different lamp types and brightness settings should have an end but now. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

In the next days I will now make an inventory of the lamps on the RSS so that the design for the final current bank can be rendered more precisely. The lighting of the FSS was relatively clear and will probably mean 8 lamps per floor, what ever gives approx. 100 lamps. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif) 
Added to this are the lamps on the Access Arms that I need to check again.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/lnw7.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
 
While the tower is relatively clear, the RSS still gives me quite a headache, but that will be somehow estimated in a first approximation. Here, I will first try get along with images of the STS-6. After my previous knowledge not only the former lamp shapes appeared significantly different than in the later missions, the number of lamps at the time was significantly greater than at the end of the program. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

That's it for today, see you soon.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 04/30/2014 09:23 PM
  WELCOME to the wonderful world of lighting!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/03/2014 12:19 PM
Hi Rich,

thanks for your invitation, in the meantime I do not want to miss the lamplight, it just belongs to a Real Pad such as the salt to a good soup, isn't it? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/03/2014 01:35 PM
MANFRED, You got that right!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/07/2014 11:26 AM
Okay Rich, let's go on with the lamplight.

Hello folks,

therefore the time has come, as already announced, I've begun in the last few days with getting things straight concerning the RSS lamps and started a gradual inventory. However, this turns out to be quite stressful and one hand is almost like looking for needles in a haystack.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)  And on the other hand, the image analysis provides such a lot of lamps, so I slowly but surely get an uncanny feeling, when I think of the laying of the LEDs ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

First, I have long brooded over how I could best do, where I realized more and more, that this can not be done in a breath, but that it only gradually progressing and lots of patience needed. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

For such an analysis one needs high-resolution photos and if possible from all sides and from different perspectives. Of these, although I have collected gradually a lot, but the detail photos are only half the battle. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)  For now begin the grueling hard work of screening and comparing the more or less easily recognizable lamps, in which one can become dizzy. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

More difficult is the fact that there are not particularly many usable shots of the STS-6. Therefore, I am also avoided to the other missions from before the STS-6 and have been looking back up to STS-1, of which there are some good shots.

And by and by then sharpens the view and you can see the arrangement of the lamps then better. In order to start with a count, I've then initially colored circled the lamps but deliberately not numbered, because the numbers are still can change, the more one's eyes bend and lamps recognizes that previously were not clearly visible. And when evaluating different pictures and views have to be extremely careful that one does not count lamps twice. Anyway, this is not just a balm for the eyes. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I don't want to put you on the rack but longer, and just show you the first overview shots, then the tricky undertaking is certainly clearer.

This is the front of the RSS, and alone on this view I have found about 50 lamps, the transition from FSS to RSS are not even considered.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039500.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

Well, start has been made, even though it was only a small taste first, the next steps will follow soon.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 05/07/2014 04:52 PM
Dont forget the back.   there are a lot of lights there too.

This is going to be hell for you at 1:160.  I don't even want to this what its gonna be like at 1:72
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/07/2014 05:32 PM
Hi Tom,

you are right, the back side should not be missed, I'll show you tomorrow. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
There are "only" about 20 lights, and there are still other places, especially between FSS and RSS, that I have yet to evaluate. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) I fully agree with you, I'll have to go through hell, but I'm so crazy and want to try it anyway. (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)

That's all for today, stay tuned guys. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/08/2014 04:12 PM
Hello again together,

these are the lamp locations on the back of the RSS at STS-6.
BTW, as you can see here, there was at first initially only the small PCR Anteroom, as it were, the vestibule to enter the highly sensitive Payload changeout room (PCR), which was later extended to the right thick pipe. But I must orient myself to the former images.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/838/d3dw.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

And these are also at least 20 or 21 lamps when the green circled lamp top right is counted together, but it's a part of my separate counting of the stairwell on the side that I've counted separately for clarity, what you can see on this picture.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/838/1a0q.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=28302&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=81PC0098&sn=KSC-81PC-0098) 
Source: NASA

Incidentally, this is a photo montage of two sub-images, which I have greatly enlarged me for marking and counting of the lamps (1x click), otherwise you would have been alone with the holding apart too much difficulty. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

All lamps are hard to see in this overview without magnification, so I'm counting of course also of images with different perspectives, where you can see the details better. But you get in the detection of these tiny details already on visual limits to what you must consider. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Here is such a picture from one of the last missions, where you can specifically recognize the lamps in the external stairwell clearly, especially at high resolution (2x click). (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/fpzn.jpg) (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/2009-3943.jpg)
Source: NASA

So, the "red" lamps are already included in the count of the front, now the 12 "green" and the 6 "yellow" lamps in the two stairwells can be added. As a result from these three views now have 91 lamps (53+20+12+6) on the RSS, but without the lamps on the transitions of the FSS to RSS, which have not yet been counted.

To this end, here are a looking ahead to another nice picture of the STS-1, on which one can recognize these lamps well at high resolution.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039498.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=28303&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=81PC0124&sn=KSC-81PC-0124)
Source: NASA

And in this way I live more laborious as the squirrel and layaway from lamp to lamp ...  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

In this sense, the count continues - The lighting show must go on!  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/11/2014 08:56 PM
Hi there,

in the meantime I looked more closely at the Access Arms at the Tower in order to count the local lamps. In addition I have here a suitable visual attunement from the preparatory phase to the STS-6.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/845/f1aq.jpg) (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/838/2u4k.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

These are the Orbiter Access Arm (OAA) with the White Room,

the Oxygen Vent Arm (OVA) with the Beanie Cap,

and the Gaseous Hydrogen Vent Arm (HVA), also called Intertank Access Arm (IAA).

For image analysis, I have partly fall back on old pictures from the early years of the shuttle program, which comes in part from the work-up phase of the Pad 39B. These are scans from the photo album of a friend who worked there and has experienced a lot.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

And so directly to the OAA, which can be seen on this old picture before mounting on the pad 39B. Okay, the quality is not great, but these images are a significant historical fundus, which I do not want to miss, as these images are really real-time documents from the early years to the Shuttle STS-6 around. And much more important than image quality is, that one can exactly recognize the 9 lamps anyway.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/836/x84q.jpg)
Source: NasaSpaceflight.com (J. MacLaren)

Here is a photo of the STS-6, on which the former lamps are beautiful to see.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/523/1bz0.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

As I said, the lamps saw later completely different, just more modern, and were not mounted in gait center but on the side (left). BTW, there were at that time much more lights than in later years. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

And so now to the OVA, in this picture still without Beanie Cap, I have viewed from several perspectives before the count of the lamps.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/843/3tvsv.jpg)
Source: NasaSpaceflight.com (J. MacLaren)

This arm has six standard lamps (1-6) and two smaller spotlights (7/8), so a total of 8 lamps.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/842/msbcx.jpg)
Source: NasaSpaceflight.com (J. MacLaren)

Missing only the HVA, that is a real steel frame monster solely due to its size, which you can see in this picture, but from a later mission. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

The frame structure consists essentially of three parts:

The huge multistory Front building is firmly connected with the Tower, but had only the top three floors during STS-6, the lower small 4th floor was retrofitted later.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/842/rz0ub.jpg)
Source: NASA

The actual Swing arm allows mating of the External tank (ET) umbilicals as well as contingency access to the ET intertank compartment, which rotated 210 to its extended position at the ET and was connected with this. The Elephants Trunk called umbilical vent line provides continuous venting of the external tank during and after loading of the volatile liquid hydrogen. The vent line is disconnected from the ET at first motion of the stack and retracts vertically downward to a stored position.

And for the lamps count it now goes back to STS-6. And the following image at first one can see these 13 lamps  which are directly mounted on the outside of the Front building. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/845/gx78.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

But that's not all, because in this picture of the STS-1 with connected Swing arm and Trunk (white) one can immediately recognize in front of the ET a lamp pole with 4 lamps, I hope so.   

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/845/a88l.jpg)
Source: NASA

This results ultimately a total number of 34 lamps for the three Access arms, but this number is not exhaustive. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

And so I want it to stop there for now and wish you a nice Sunday.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/14/2014 07:00 PM
MANFRED,

  You have managed to secure some really nice photos of your reference. I have never seen some of these pictures. I have found that at some point you have to cut yourself off with how much deatil to add to the project or you could build forever. Your lighting chapter is an ongoing affair and it seems that you will always find new photos with something you did not see before. And you know that sometimes the lighting and the plastic model build have to proceede with construction at the same time. The lighting with the Crawler was like that. Install lights, build a bulkhead,...ect. The amount of photos and resurch is inspiring to us all. Keep up the great work my man!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/15/2014 01:41 PM
Hello Rich,

I am glad that you like the photos. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

I fully agree with you, but this is only one view, and I will not deny you too. Finally everyone has to decide how far he wants to go into detail. In this sense maybe I have now reached a limit of what is possible at this scale, and thus it is enough. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Unfortunately I do not have such beautiful 3D plans as construction guidance and templates as you have from Mischa, after which you can blithely build straight on. So I have to look for and collect all my details from close-up images, and this just takes a lot of time. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

And so my experience is to stay with one thing if possible, to concentrate on it and go through with it. Therefore I need in this intense work phases no variety, but only great patience and perseverance. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

BTW, for me, the building is only one thing, that other equally interesting is to learn about the shuttle technology, and both gives me great pleasure and drives me to continue, even if it is sometimes difficult to deal with losing streaks. And that's why it does not bother me, if it's just slowly going forward step by step. So I'm repeating myself gladly, in the peace lies the power ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/15/2014 05:02 PM
Hallo all together,

in order to finally complete the preliminary planning of lighting, I've now specifically looked at the transitions between the FSS and RSS from different perspectives, thus the previous number of lamps has increased slightly.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And I had just to be careful that already detected lamps not to be counted again, which was not quite easy.

Here are just a few pictures of it, in which the far not detected lamps are circled green.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/tfqv.jpg)
Source: NASA

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/0fxz.jpg)
Source: flickr.com (S. Patlan)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/b4yc.jpg)
Source: flickr.com (S. Patlan)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/844/cr8y.jpg)
Source: flickr.com (S. Patlan)

Hopefully you are not blurred anything in mind because of the many colorful rings, but comforting you, so it will now really be enough. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

And now, a look at  Hammerhead Crane, because there are in addition to the 4 already shown spotlights at the foot of the [color="#0000FF"]Lightning Mast[/color] yet these 4 lamps here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/838/imy0.jpg)
Source: NASA

And because I also want to build a diorama finally, I will soon schedule the 4 Floodlight masts around the pad. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

For a long time I had only ever seen newer photos in which the masts had each 9 spotlights.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/844/1h1f.jpg)
Source: NASA

But at pictures of the STS-1 you can see that the masts then only had 6 spotlights,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/ygi56.jpg)
Source: NASA

and that was also the same two years later at the STS-6. The modernization of the masts is then done sometime later, however, I do not know. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/1o70y.jpg)
Source: NASA

This now results in the following preliminary number for the lamps on the pad:

- FSS, inkl. Hammerhead Crane: 104
- Access Arms (OAA, OVA, HVA): 34
- RSS: 112
- MLP, incl. warning lights: 26
- Floodlight masts: 24

That adds up to 300 lamps, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)  if I have not charged me, and there's the  Crawler  not yet counted. For this I would estimate about 30 lamps, which then ultimately would result round  330  lamps and let the cat out of the bag.
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)
As I said, that is first times everything just theory, but that there is now a house number for the interpretation of the new current bank, which is intended to cover all if possible! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hmmm.gif)

How many lights I can install it really on the pad, will then show up when I started wiring. Maybe I have to reduce the number a bit, but that is for the time being in the stars ...  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif)

So, that's it for today, I hear you laugh or groan already ...  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/17/2014 02:44 PM



 


MANFRED,
 
 
 
  It seems that the more you look the more you find. I kinda feel sorry for unleashing this affliction upon you. The addiction grows, my light master. Hang in there! I stay tuned untill next time.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/18/2014 07:17 AM
Hi Rich,

my lighting analysis is now complete and more lamps are not visible on my photos, although there are certainly some more lamps. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

And so the goal is now known, however, whether this dream can be achieved remains to be seen. And if it will end up being less lamps, it's not the end of the world! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Therefore, don't worry, it will in any case be exciting ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/28/2014 12:28 PM
Hello all together,

after the stressful lighting analysis, I first had to take a breather and go for a change again to another building site where a longer time was break. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)   

And so back to the TSM ladders, but they are no less stressful, which is why I also have longer left fingers on it. But it's no use, the ladders must now finally to the TSMs, even if this tricky job costs a little  overcoming. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

My last state (February) this was here. After that I wanted to put the ladders for mounting on individual support brackets made ​​of brass wire (0.2 mm), to a U-shape must be bent.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img835/4889/qyvs.jpg)

As at that time shown, one must note that the TSM ladders are different. While the ladders on the outside of the TSM's have in the middle of this continuous strip (red arrow), this is absent in the ladders on the front and back of the service boxes (green arrow).

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037141.jpg)
Source: NASA

Another difference is that the ladders have different lengths feet. While the ladders on the outer sides are standing on equal length legs, the feet of the ladders on the service boxes are of different lengths.

For the ladders on the outside of the TSM's I had already made ​​a first prototype.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/577/xrg3.jpg)

Therefore, I have now separated the missing ladders for the service boxes from the PE boards out, making the ladders would ever complete.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/m4px.jpg)

Then I've been bending the narrow side beams at 90 upwards on the bending tool,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039809.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/q2n9c.jpg)

which the ladder was ready.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/844/f73e.jpg)

The support brackets must be bent to conclude on her width flush with the step width. To this end, I first have cut me wire pieces of 10 mm length,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/841/pqxfk.jpg)

and then bent through 90 upwards. This can be done either in the bending tool,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/845/wxhfo.jpg)

and then have to clamp and bend again. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/wzz3.jpg)

Or take the same pieces of wire into a flat-nose pliers and bend the two ends (always with the same pliers width!) by 90, which is easier and also faster.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/65vo.jpg)

For testing the most suitable mounting variant of the ladders on the support brackets I made me a sketch and already inserted the first support in pre-punched holes, the supports should protrude approx. 1 mm.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/4s4i.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/835/7xbt.jpg)

Now I'm just wondering about the mounting variant which is more advantageous. Either I glue later all supports firmly into the holes on the TSM, and then the ladder to the support.
 
Or I glue the ladder first to the provisionally inserted supports and then can remove the ladder with the supports as a whole from the backing. After that I could paint it completely and then carefully glue with the feet in the pre-punched holes on the TSMs. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

That sounds extremely complicated in theory, hopefully it can also practically be accomplished. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

And now the interesting question, which variant would you prefer, or are there possibly quite different solutions? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/28/2014 12:44 PM
MANFRED,

I have had experiance with measuring, and measuring again to make fixed legs fit into pre drilled holes. Almost always there is at least one of the legs that dose not want to go into a pre arranged hole. I will always secure my anchor legs first and then mount the ladders onto the support legs. For me, this is always the best method. I vote for mounting your supports first, then applying your ladders.

BTW, nice to here from you again about the TSM's. Great job.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/28/2014 03:01 PM
Hello Rich,

thanks for your advice my friend. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

I fully agree with you, everything else would probably produce only expensive waste, because any foot would always stand beside the pre drilled hole or bend while the rest already glues, and that's it been then. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

These PE ladders are quite fragile structures, and after all only 0.15 mm "thick". (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) You have to be even with the tweezers already taking care not to bend something. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/28/2014 09:48 PM
Hey folks,

let's go with the TSM ladders.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

And that brings me right back to the question of the best type of assembling. From my previous gut feeling when dealing with ladders and support brackets I am now came to the conclusion that the latter variant is probably not really suitable. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nein.gif) 

Accordingly, I will first glue all supports firmly into the holes on the TSM and then carefully glue the previously painted ladders, step by step on the supports. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

The other variant with the gluing of the complete, painted ladders with the support brackets into the prepared holes seems to me now as impractical. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif) 

This will hopefully clearer at the two next pictures. Even when provisional insertion of the support brackets into the pretreated holes there are problems. This must be done very carefully so as these thin brass brackets (0.2 mm) do not bend, they also need to be more aligned. For a uniform height of the supports of 1 mm I have a profile (1,5 x1,0 mm) underlaid.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/836/j2zk5.jpg)

On the supports then the ladder must be placed and glued, so that as the respective ladder spoke with the support lie one above the other, as seen in this image, where the ladder is placed only provisionally.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/839/ajyi.jpg)

And then the pending procedure with adhesive will be difficult enough, but I have probably first to glue the ladder on an outer support and only then can follow the bonds to the other supports. And that probably will work only with tiny Superglue droplets, as already in the bonding of the central strip.
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)
As you can see, this will probably become a fairly delicate and stressful action, which I already think with horror. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But somehow it'll succeed, I hope so strong. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 05/29/2014 03:50 PM
Looking good Manfred.  I admire your work at that scale, and I wish I had your eyesight. :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/29/2014 04:10 PM
Thanks Tom for your compliments,

but you're right, this is not a rest cure for the eyes, which is why I have to slow down every now and then. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

How are you getting on with your TSM's? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/30/2014 01:11 PM
Hello guys,

before it continues with the TSM ladders, here again a short bit on the side back to lighting with a great photo that I just found. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

This is the Challenger in preparation for the STS-41B (1984). As you can see in the picture, the lighting could well be switched to full light intensity sometimes, which is most visible in the MLP lighting. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/843/f3j8.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=65267&mr=m&w=1236&h=1537&fn=KSC-84PC-0080&sn=KSC-84PC-82)
Source: NASA

Therefore, how well that my lamps will also be adjustable, of course, everything in reasonable limits, but still. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

BTW, in this picture is also very nice to see the colors of the elevator shaft, with its red seems to be but much stronger than that at the Tower framework. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 05/30/2014 01:55 PM
i have that pic as a 18x24 print from NASA.   looks great on the wall
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/30/2014 03:46 PM
Hey Tom,

I can vividly imagine, approx. 45x60 cm, this is an awesome eye catcher. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Soon my STS-6 reference photo will be hanging on the wall in 70x70 cm, I can hardly wait. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/703/dqad.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 05/31/2014 09:14 PM
Totally Awsome Photos Manfred!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 05/31/2014 11:03 PM
Yep Rich, these are awesome pictures! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

But, this does not mean that I want to have such a bright light too, which is actually too bright, because the poor guys walking on those platforms would be blinded. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

The picture only took me excited and surprised because you can find more photos with dimmed lighting, especially on the MLP. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 05/31/2014 11:11 PM
would the lights really vary in Brightness?   Couldn't this be more of an affect with the camera exposure.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/01/2014 11:32 AM
Tom,

I think so, because the bright light is only on the Access platforms below the Blast shields, and does not come from a flood light outside the MLP, otherwise the whole Side 1 would be as bright. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/09/2014 10:50 PM
Hello folks to Whit Monday,

since it is at these high summer temperatures outside almost unbearable, I've done with the TSM ladders on. The ladder of the outside of the LOX-TSM has still been lacking, which also has a center strip.

So no long preface, let's go with the PE parts and cutting the ladder, you really have to be careful that you cut only the connecting webs. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/9z3w4.jpg)

Above is already the finished ladder for the LH2 TSM, and also the separated ladder with the center strip.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/841/v8lsn.jpg)

Next, the two side spars must be bent in bending tool. To this end, the narrow, only 0.25 mm wide ladder beam is clamped respectively,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/a8nor.jpg)

and then carefully bent the rest with the bending blade upwards.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/ail0h.jpg)

And so looks the almost finished ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/829/h3nl.jpg)

Now comes the tricky gluing procedure of the center strip on the ladder, including both parts must be fixed with tape strips. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/849/cl4t.jpg)

Then again you need a steady hand and eagle eyes, or better yet a headset with magnifier in order to glue the central strip with Superglue on the ladder rungs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)   

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/tjpm.jpg)

For this purpose, it is advisable to proceed in sections and always coat only 2-3 ladder beam with very little superglue then centrally set up the strip and fix. That sounds quite stressful, what it is actually, because you can of course also screw up all with a little too much Superglue and/or a shaky hand and glue the ladder to the base. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Since this did not happen luckily, I was then able to calmly breath, because the ladder (below) looks really good. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/nssoz.jpg)

And so all 6 ladders for the TSMs are now finished and can go for painting.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/etqmk.jpg)

And here is the fitting of the ladder on the LOX TSM with a support pad that fits quite well.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/44289.jpg)

OMG, Oh, if the ladder would only be already installed ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/ew7u.jpg)
 
So friends, now it becomes really serious about the installation of the ladder supports to the TSMs, which should not be less stressful for sure.  (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/11/2014 05:43 PM
Hello guys,

and so despite the heat (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/tongue.gif) it continues with the supports for the TSM ladders that are known to be different, as can be seen here again. The ladders on the sides (red arrow) have the same length feet but on the service-flap boxes (green arrow) are of different lengths. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/839/o6c3.jpg)
Source: NASA

For the ladders on the sides with the center strip, I had already some supports bent, of which I need 9 pieces each, for a total of 18.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/839/ajyi.jpg)

For the 4 ladders on the service-flap boxes I need each of 6 support brackets, a total of 24 pieces which need a longer foot because the boxes sideways overlap about 3 mm. That's why I at first have cut supports from brass wire (0.2 mm) to length (10 respectively 13 mm),

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/jq17.jpg)

and then started bending, and this time I have immediately resorted to the flat nose pliers, because it is easier and faster. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039815.jpg)

After that I wanted to try with a support for the ladders on the service flap boxes such as this could work with the installation. For this purpose, again the photo where you can see the exact arrangement of the ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/9roq2.jpg)
Source: NASA

One side is standing with the supports on the laterally protruding box while the supports on the other side are on the TSM housing and therefore must be slightly longer.

And so then is the fitting of the support, on the left he overlaps 1 mm and 4 mm on the right, which would thus fit quite well. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/822/m4ll.jpg)

So then continue by bending the rest of the support brackets. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/14/2014 09:59 PM
Hi there,

today only a short time visit, as there is not so much to see except a lot of small stuff. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

To install the TSM ladders now the support brackets had to be bent from 0.2 mm brass wire. These were 18 pieces for the two ladders on the TSM sides with the center strip (top), and 24 pieces for the 4 ladders on the service-flap boxes (below).

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/o70q9.jpg)

Therefor a sense of proportion was required when inserting the support strip to the flat nose pliers to always possible to have a uniform supernatant before bending the overlaying ends.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039815.jpg)

And so everything was now ready for the painting of the ladders and supports. Installation is then separately, as already described. First, the support brackets are assembled and then the ladders are glued  on the supports.

For the painting of the support brackets I have put these on toothpicks with a tip from patafix,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/855/0rdl.jpg)

and then plugged into a styrofoam plate. And that was quite a fumbling, I can tell you. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/820/3t3v.jpg)

Now I just hope that the supports do not fly during the airbrush.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/8nko.jpg)

So it pays to be at the opportunity then also still the first series lampshades for the MLP should be painted, which are on the balsa strip (below). (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

And the ladders I will also attach with patafix on toothpicks for painting.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/zsd0.jpg)

So now I'm going to visit the friends in the paint shop, hopefully are not all in Brazil. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/21/2014 08:17 AM
High there,

at the same time occupies me now yet another tricky problem. It's about how I should conjure the regular intervals for the base points of the support brackets to the TSMs to groove them in.(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

This could be marked relatively well on the plane,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039986.jpg)

but now I have to consider some trick how to apply this to the difficult accessible TSMs.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/44289.jpg)

And that will probably just go with a suitable template, which should however be transparent and as narrow as possible for accurate applying on the TSM to identify the correct position of the ladder and to align the template yet. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

In addition I have first transferred my paper template (above) on a transparent film and carefully grooved the base points with a needle. And with this transparent template (below) I then made ​​a test-scribe mark. I just hope that you can see the little holes for the base points above the template yet. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/3xajv.jpg)

The difficulty, however, now will be the correct aligning and fixing the template on the TSM's because the space is quite narrow and difficult to access, which you can see in the next two pictures again. That's why I'll probably must cut the template to a narrow strip, about 6 mm wide (ladder width 3 mm), then I have to position and fix it somehow for grooving the holes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/9akyx.jpg)

On the TSM sides you can apply the template still relatively good, 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/8s4f.jpg)

but on the service-flap boxes it is relatively complicated due to the different heights, in particular then still to be able to accurately groove the holes next to the boxes. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Well, I will already have to try out how to do it best ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/21/2014 12:36 PM
Hi Manfred,

  Well it seems that you are between a rock and a hard place! I do not envy you on this one. The uneven surfaces will defenetly create a challange. But I know you are up to it, so full steam ahead!!

  BTW, the TSM's look fantastic!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/21/2014 01:18 PM
Thanks Rich for your encouraging words,

but the ladders are really a tough nut to crack, but I'll still crack. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037139.jpg)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 06/25/2014 04:36 PM
Hello folks,

today I once tried the transparent template and started the piercing for the support brackets on the LH2 TSM. In order to position the template exactly as possible next to the pipe bundle, I have them cut on one side about 1 mm from the pre-punctured row of holes.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040134.jpg)

In order to reasonably safe handling, I had to put the TSM in a proven way flat and clamping the holding arbor in my special mount and additional support at the left end. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/841/5g79.jpg)

Then I first pre-punctured the outer base point for the lower support bracket 3 mm above the TSM bottom and fixed the template on one side with a steel wire (0.3 mm). After alignment of the template then the outer base point for the last upper support bracket was pre-punctured and also fixed with a steel wire.
In this position, I then carefully pre-punctured the remaining base points, so as not to slip. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/oior.jpg)

And this hole pattern was the result,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/850/63z4.jpg)

and so roughly, I had imagined the procedure, although a little tricky, but doable. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/840/1ltp.jpg)

Then came the LOX TSM to the series. This has on the outside also a ladder with center strut, only the free space here is fortunately somewhat larger.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/819/b34t.jpg)

Otherwise the procedure is the same, so first marking the base points and then pre-puncture the holes with applied template.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/853/ubzz.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/837/6cho.jpg)

And here the first six of the nine support brackets are temporarily plugged.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040142.jpg)

So far for today with the first piercing round. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 06/26/2014 07:45 PM
MANFRED,

  Great job on the placement of all these small suppot rungs! It makes me wonder where else you might have any piercings. LOL
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/01/2014 10:12 AM
Thanks Rich for your encouraging words, which give me new motivation to struggle with these elaborate details on. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037139.jpg)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/07/2014 10:45 PM
Hello folks,

despite the hot k.o. matches at the Soccer World Cup that keep me pretty from building, I want to send a small sign of life from the TSM building site and show that it continues, albeit slowly. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

After I started to insert the first six support brackets for the ladder on the outside of the LOX TSM, the missing three supports are now temporarily plugged that are not yet glued in order to test the ladder fit.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/l91r6.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040309.jpg)

And with the ladder placed it actually looks quite good, I think.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040310.jpg)

Although the fit is still not precisely fixed, the distances between the support brackets agree quite well with the rungs, respectively, and that makes me hopeful for the final assembly after painting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/855/kp0v.jpg)

Speaking of paintwork, the guys in the paintshop but have actually made an operational break to let supposedly change the filters. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Well, who's believed ... World Cup is only every four years.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/smilie_flag_396.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/08/2014 05:14 PM
MANFRED,

  Your PE ladders look very impressive!! I have a ton of PE brass for other builds I have to do, so I know how difficult this stuff is to work with. Your patients is paying off big time. The TSM's are a work of art all by themselves! Very good job!!

  Now lets hope Germany can do as good a job against Brazill for the finals on Sunday. Go team Germany!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/08/2014 06:02 PM
Thanks Rich for you encouraging and nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, the PE brass parts are really a tricky stuff, but nothing is impossible. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
Thanks for your wishes for team Germany against Brazil, but I have a good feeling for tonight. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037311.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 07/08/2014 08:02 PM
GO GERMANY!!

(from the looks of things, they are going!)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/09/2014 01:34 AM
Hello all together,

in order to bridge the time before the semi-final showdown against Brazil tonight, here a few quick pictures of the other ladder preparations. After I made the fitting of the ladder on the LOX TSM yesterday, here is the test on the LH2 TSM. For this, the support brackets were inserted into the pre-punctured holes again and their height balanced with the spacer profile.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/855/yksn3.jpg)

And this ladder lies good so far on the support, as you can see.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/840/g3ku.jpg)

So, now I must come to the ladders on the service-flap boxes, which are much less accessible for marking the holes of the supports with the help of my template. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) To place the template on the narrow boxes similar to the side faces,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040135.jpg)

I had to devise a suitable support for the TSM again. So I've made ​​two spacer blocks made ​​of balsa, a longer part that fits with height just below the box, and a second part as support on the TSM top. The lower side is as usual fixed by the holding mandrel clamped in the vise.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/843/prxb6.jpg)

And so the TSM should then lie reasonably stable to apply the template and pre-puncture which each 12 holes for the support brackets, because a little pressure is necessary to apply when pre-puncturing the holes in the balsa core. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/834/i1mk9.jpg)

That is all for today.

And last not least, our Team Germany has made ​​history tonight and sensational sent home the host Brazil 7:1, unbelievable but true!!!

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/national.gif)    F I N A L

Thank you friends for the fingers crossed.  (http://img.userboard.org/images/smilies/JC_doubleup.gif)

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/smilie_flag_396.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/09/2014 12:29 PM
MANFRED,

  CONGRATULATIONS!!!  OMG, Team Germany has just outrageously spanked Brazil , and sent them home crying, like a little school girl that skined her knee!!!  7-1 must be some sort of record. If not, it should be. Now comes the big show for Germany! I should ask you which team you would rather play against in the final, but I'm not so sure that it really matters because Germany is going to kick their ass!!

  I know just how it feels to have your own team on the winning field. My home town Seattle Seahawks won the Superbowl in American football this year. We are still parting over this win! All my fingers crossed for your great Team Germany!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: saturnapollo on 07/09/2014 12:48 PM
That is stupendous work, Manfred. Really lost for words with the detail you are putting in!

Keith
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/09/2014 04:11 PM
MANFRED,

  CONGRATULATIONS!!!  OMG, Team Germany has just outrageously spanked Brazil , and sent them home crying, like a little school girl that skined her knee!!!  7-1 must be some sort of record. If not, it should be. Now comes the big show for Germany! I should ask you which team you would rather play against in the final, but I'm not so sure that it really matters because Germany is going to kick their ass!!

  I know just how it feels to have your own team on the winning field. My home town Seattle Seahawks won the Superbowl in American football this year. We are still parting over this win! All my fingers crossed for your great Team Germany!

Thanks Rich for your CONGRATULATIONS,

but this game tonight was the bright madness - Made in Germany - and will go down in Soccer history.
(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/3D_germ.gif)
Three goals in 2:58, simply incredible, gigantic, fantastic!!! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

And if you ask me which team we would rather play against in the final, I would say Argentina, and I have a feeling that it will happen. And then we will have a home game in Rio, I think.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

A game against Holland  might become a battle, because between our two football forces for years a real enmity existed since 1974 at the latest, when we beat them in the World Cup Final in Germany 2-1 ...

But no matter who comes, we can beat any team in this form. And I fully agree with you, that Germany is going to work their ass off.

BTW, despite our enormous delight about this historic success all Germans feel with the Brazilians, sorry, we did not want to pain them that way. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/embarrassed.gif)

And all Americans thanks for the mark of respect for our team Germany! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/smilie_flag_396.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/10/2014 06:53 AM
That is stupendous work, Manfred. Really lost for words with the detail you are putting in!

Keith

Thanks Keith for your nice words of appreciation. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, these details are indeed on the one hand additional effort but on the other hand over and over again a delightful challenge for scratch building a model and make it more interesting. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/13/2014 01:31 PM
ALL HALE, the scratch building Gods!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 07/13/2014 10:47 PM
We won't see Manfred for a while. I am sure he is celebrating Germany's win!!  Congratulations!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/13/2014 11:00 PM
Hello Ron and all my friends,

I have had a good feeling that we would pick us the fourth star!!!

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/850/s4znd.jpg)

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, and now we got it.

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/3D_germ.gif) (http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/3D_germ.gif)(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/3D_germ.gif)(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/3D_germ.gif)

And now I'm really down but very happy!

(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 07/14/2014 03:29 AM
Congratulations Manfred.  Save the last `5 minutes it was a nail biter.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/14/2014 08:13 AM
Thanks Tom for your congratulations, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

now we are on aim and finally got the fourth star, I have known it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040312.gif)

We are World Champion!

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/smilie_flag_396.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/15/2014 11:22 PM
Hello dear friends,

thank you once again for all the good wishes and congratulations. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)(http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)(http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

On days like this, one wishes for infinity ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/904/14bc7f.jpg)

In this sense, cheers on a horny World Cup with our team and the 4th star!(http://ht-board.ch/forum/images/smilies/prost.gif)

BTW, there is still place for the 5th star ...  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/WM-Smileys/smilie_flag_396.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 07/15/2014 11:46 PM
That is awesome!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 07/16/2014 12:53 AM
Where's our beer :(
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/16/2014 12:33 PM
MANFRED & ELISABETH,

You two sure look happy and proud about your teams World Cup win!! Good times, good food, good beer!! What could be better. Again...Congratulations!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 07/16/2014 06:11 PM
Fantastic !!  You really have a Championship team....Cheers  :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/16/2014 11:12 PM
Hello Rich,

thank you again for your congratulations, that's right, we are very proud of our World Cup win! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
Now we have compensated with the Italians, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037311.gif) where we dine quite often. So far, they could always brag to have a star more than we Germans. Now we also have four stars and they are very quiet, but have our success recognized. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif)

Thanks Dave for your nice words,

yep our team and our coach were very smart and finally successful, but also sometimes had the necessary portion of fortune, but fortune favors the brave. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)
In this sense ... (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/public/style_emoticons/default/271.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/20/2014 04:32 PM
Hello all together,

yep, hard to believe but there is actually also a life after the awesome World Cup, and therefore it should now go on totally relaxed, especially since nobody can take away from us the 4th star. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And so now to the final countdown with the TSM ladders on the service-flap boxes, at which I am afraid that their assembly probably could be a little tricky because of the different lengths of the support brackets. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Here you can see both TSMs with on-hook ladders, and if you look closely, perhaps can be seen that the ladder on the right TSM is longer than the left, and this has its good reason.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034424.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/855825.jpg)

How fortunate that I have again looked at the original photos exactly, because the four PE ladders for the boxes I had already cut, and indeed all of the same length, and I've been always emanated from this image here. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/539/18d2fc.jpg)
Source: NASA

As can be seen on the ladders extend on the rear of the TSMs approximately over the length of the boxes, since the pipes of the SSWS run underneath.
But on the TSM front the ladders extend up to just above the SSME Blast Shield and are thus a bit longer, which I only now became really clear. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040472.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/bcf568.jpg)
Source: NASA

Just as well that I have compared again and was able to correct.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Next, I've made two sketches with the positions of the base points of the support brackets for the front side (left) and back side (right),

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/92b0fc.jpg)

and thus created transparent templates for puncturing the holes for the base points.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/ca0897.jpg)

With the the template for the front side then I punched out the two outer base points and located it with pins.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/411f46.jpg)

Then I've punched out the remaining four holes on the box.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/69697e.jpg)

But now came the more complicated part of the exercise, the puncturing of the holes behind the box.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) In order to avoid any possible shift of the template, I have first fastened it in the holes on the box with acupuncture needles (0.2 mm). Then I've gently punctured the holes behind the box.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/536/722f54.jpg)

Then I trial basis plugged into the first support bracket, which can be seen here with the spacer,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/1d14ab.jpg)

 and here now freestanding.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/a3cf72.jpg)

Well, that was actually a pretty tricky business, but all in all quite feasible.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif) Long enough I had fiddled at the solution, now I have to repeat the same act "only"  three more times ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up035091.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/21/2014 06:42 PM
Nice detail shots of the ladder construction. I like the acupuncture photo. I "feel" for you tho, having to build the long leg/short leg ladder supports. That can't be easy. Hang in there ladder man.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/21/2014 08:56 PM
Thanks Rich for for your compassion, you as Fan Man can appreciate the best. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

These tiny ladder details put my patience to a hard test, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037139.jpg) 

and therefore it's better to hang in then to give up ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/23/2014 03:16 PM
Hi folks,

it still goes on with the ladders, on and on ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

Today, I have now tried on the remaining 5 support brackets on the front, but I can tell you, my nerves are slowly bare.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

As has been found out quickly, the holes punctured with the 0.2 mm diameter acupuncture needles were too small for the insertion of the 0.2 mm support brackets, so funny as that may sound. But there is just not enough clearance for moving the longer and the shorter bracket leg into it. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

On the one hand, on the other hand I also had to find that the holes were not punctured deep enough so that the brackets could not be pushed far enough up on the spacer (1 mm), and have been partially bent. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up034424.gif)

That's why I then used a steel wire (0.3 mm) and punctured the holes a little bit deeper into the balsa core, after which the insertion of the brackets was a little easier. But still you have to be extremely careful here that you do not bend those thin things.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040578.jpg)

You need just for everything only a certain amount of practice, but as soon as I luckily give not up.   (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040579.jpg)

And in the end I still have placed the ladder in order to get an overall impression. And ever seen but not bad, right?  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/266568.jpg)

But, all this was only just dry firing, (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)  the sticking of the supports and of the ladders with CA glue after painting then certainly becomes the highlight, before I shudder to think already now ...
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)
But since I have to go through, no matter what the cost ...(http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/25/2014 05:14 PM
MANFRED,

  The dry fiting of the TSM ladders is looking super. Now off to the paint dept. and all will be well.
BTW: You should know that a modelers sanity is the first thing to go.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 07/25/2014 09:03 PM
Manfred, You are the " Man "  :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/25/2014 10:23 PM
Thanks Rich and Dave for your nice comments. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

That's right, now it's time to look at the paint shop to make sure if the guys are ready for the next major order and have enough color, I hope so. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/26/2014 05:11 PM
Hello together,

above each ladder on the boxes, there are still these additional 4 rungs here, making a total of 16. And these rungs I'll still need to install before mounting the ladders, as long as I can lay down the boxes on the balsa block. Because if they are then attached only once, nothing more is with touch or lay down. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/9a9699.jpg)
Source: NASA

Also for these rungs I made myself a little template for puncturing the holes, because as from the cupped hand is nothing at 2 mm sprouts width and 2 mm spacing.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/536/GqIZSo.jpg)

And then I have bent the 16 rungs from 0.2 mm brass wire.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/taULcr.jpg)

Then came the tricky application of the template and puncturing the holes, but this time all in the smallest space. As you come quite nicely into trouble with the needles, as you can see. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/sxqo5V.jpg)

And here are the first four rungs are trial basis inserted.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/WNd78h.jpg)

Dealing with these tiny rungs in the tweezers is somewhat arduous, and before you know it, a rung is sometimes disappeared never to be seen again, but with the necessary calm and patience that's still doable. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As far as short for today, then all a great weekend!

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 07/27/2014 05:00 PM
The ladder rungs are lookin' great! Have a nice weekend.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/27/2014 09:50 PM
Thanks Rich,

yep, you're right, only small but nice details. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Have a good start tomorrow. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 07/30/2014 10:33 PM
Hi there,

now also the back of the LOX TSM got adapted the four upper rungs.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040563.jpg)

That's it for today. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

I'm today namely stumbled upon picture material from the first shuttle years (1981-85), which I did not know, and had naturally to spot and then back up what even so takes time. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/01/2014 02:25 PM
Hello friends,

on the merry acupuncture! Caution, today it's really going under the skin! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif) There are missing still a lot of holes for the support brackets and rungs to the TSMs, and since only help acupuncture needles and a steady hand! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

Since these fine needles ( 0.15 mm) can bend it very easily when puncturing the holes, it is advisable to puncture first with a slightly thicker needle ( 0.25 mm) in a solid holder, and then the applied transparent template with the acupuncture needles to fix hole for hole. With the stiffer needle in the holder succeeds much better, especially the holes behind the box perpendicular puncture down and not obliquely to put what is important for uniform spacing of the rungs-foot points. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/ORC3j2.jpg)

On the front of the LH2 TSM I had started this ordeal, and therefore it was now with the acupuncture fresh and lively on the back on a total of 12 needles for the 6 support brackets of the ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/WZhogA.jpg)

And here's the same procedure on the front of the LOX TSM, but the differences presumably probably will not notice,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/5L8ULv.jpg)

and here on the back.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/fIqjzH.jpg)

It is important to sufficiently deep redo the holes, in order to later facilitate the insertion of the support brackets, here on the front of the LOX TSM,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/B9tQsX.jpg)

and here on the back.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/8AfZ8d.jpg)

I know that these images are quite confusing and your patience have put to a severe test. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

But that's still not enough, now there are the holes for the missing rungs on the LH2 TSM, both on the front,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/539/APuEEF.jpg)

and on the back. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/ZUeSY1.jpg)

So, folks, I hope that it doesn't tweak somewhere under your skin, but it's now the end of the acupuncture spook, and if I have not miscounted, that was a total of 52 holes. (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

Okay, I would have you also can save all and should present only the fully assembled ladders, but then you would have escaped some of my stress and strains. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

BTW,  I now have during posting itself must be careful to not confound the images because of the many needles ...  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/01/2014 05:56 PM

OH MANFRED!  The things we do for our craft!!  A lot of holes, a lot of needles, fronts,backs,..it makes my brain hurt sometimes. You are doing an amazing job with this build my friend, just keep building and sharing the photos. We want to see it all!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/01/2014 11:19 PM
Thanks Rich for your kind words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)
Yep, this is really a nice but crazy stuff with which we spend our free time. (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Bubbinski on 08/02/2014 02:48 AM
Wow that is finely detailed work!  Keep at it!

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/02/2014 04:37 PM
Thanks for your nice words, I'll try to keep this level. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/02/2014 05:28 PM
Hi there,

after all the holes for the support brackets of the ladders and rungs were punctured, today I wanted to glue the rungs final. First, I have bent the remaining rungs of the LH2 TSM,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040547.jpg)

and subsequently inserted. As the spacer, this time I have used a profile 0,75x0,75 mm, because these rungs sit slightly lower than the ladders. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/OjIJfL.jpg)

After all the rungs were fixed at the same height, I have removed the spacer,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/logX64.jpg)

and the rungs dabbed at the base points with CA droplets and glued it. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/9RuGnH.jpg)

So everything was now ready for the lacquering of the rungs.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/fFzk2A.jpg)

Then I picked out my finest brush and carefully painted the rungs with freshly diluted paint. This went relatively well, although I had to aim at the feet of the rungs very closely with the brush tip to paint not the surrounding area. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif) For this job I needed again the headset magnifier and a sensitive and quiet hand. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/nsAJKM.jpg)

But with the result as far as I can be quite happy, I think so. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/QU9eyR.jpg)

And thus a small step is done again and I can now move on to painting the ladders, what I will do, however, with airbrush, because the brushing of perceived 1000 sprouts I will not expect me really.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

In this sense you all a great weekend, see you soon. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/04/2014 05:38 PM
Anxious to see how the Paint Dept. dose with the ladders. Not to worry tho, they will turn out great. I was thinking that you have been building these TSM's for pages now, and maybe almost finished? No matter tho, they are turnning out beautifull.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/04/2014 10:31 PM
Hi Rich,

tomorrow there is a large-scale operation in the paint shop and I hope that the guys will finally paint all ladders and support brackets. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) But then a very hot action is waiting for me, namely the tricky mounting of the six ladders on the TSMs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

But I have to consider before even a clever sequence, because with the mounting of each additional ladder the TSMs are becoming unhandily. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

But this is still not the end, because if the six ladders are attached, then these four ROFIs here are still missing, the so-called Radially Outward Firing Ignitors for flaring possibly from the SSMEs emanating hydrogen, at T-10 sec be ignited before the lift-off and sprinkle like burning sparklers. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/536/cee198.jpg)
Source: NASA

But these are truly the last parts of the TSMs. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif) If it's only already so far would be ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)
(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

But that reminds me just in time that is not true indeed, because then are still missing the Umbilical connections between the TSMs and the orbiter, which I have almost forgotten. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/embarrassed.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/536/cfa552.jpg) (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up020932.jpg)
Source: NASA

But they will initially be placed on hold until the shuttle stack will be finished and I can define the locations and distances of the TSM's final. But this is again a chapter in itself, as I then also have to install the support strut(s) in the TSM(s) holding the stack in the balance ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

Therefore, all in good time, step by step ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/05/2014 09:50 PM
Hello together,

as previously announced, it went further today with the painting of the ladders. Here you can see the prepared parts, I have fastened with Patafix on toothpicks. These are at first the 6 ladders for the TSMs

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/RRY7YG.jpg)

with the associated support brackets that you can hardly see. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/742/5wonZ6.jpg)

And then there was still the first series of lampshades for the MLP, which was prepared for a long time, and were painted together now, let's go the whole hog. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/96d8wh.jpg)

And now could follow the first airbrush pass with gray, here the pictures in sequence without big words.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/0sthBJ.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/KP9BHk.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/IXWuUw.jpg)

Tomorrow then follows a second pass, and then it should also be enough with the paint.

So far it seems to become not bad, I am hopeful.   (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 08/06/2014 02:26 AM
Looking good!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/07/2014 11:11 PM
Thanks Ron for your nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Hello folks,

yesterday the guys in the paintshop have done a second pass with the stuff, which should now be enough. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/hCtq4E.jpg)

Not exactly brilliant however was the separation of the ladders from patafix because residues partially still remained attached to the rungs which only hardly could be removed with tweezers little by little.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) Therefore need to be retouched some places a bit after assembly here and there.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/1RwWJr.jpg)

But with the long ladder I had already times made a first fitting on the LH2 TSM, because I was simply interested in the visual impression, and it looked promising.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/Cl6Ny2.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/UKE8SI.jpg)

Next, the support brackets followed and had to be glued into the prepunctured holes, what I had already practiced several times "dry", but this time, now finally with CA.

And that went bracket for bracket : First of threading the feet and wetting by acupuncture needle with CA, then slide the spacer and insert the bracket up on the spacers, and then remove the spacers again. And then came the next bracket, admittedly a somewhat tedious exercise, but what the heck. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041098.jpg)

Here you can see the last bracket before wetting the feet with CA, which slightly protrudes further out.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/742/XLZGiq.jpg)

And finally all nine brackets were glued,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/wDIfWt.jpg)

and so now finally ready for the ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/y0eOVG.jpg)

And it looks like this on a trial basis,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/IlwYBp.jpg)

and results in an entirely coherent overall picture, I think. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/qXdmVX.jpg)

Now I have "only" to glue the ladder on the brackets, and I hope that it will succeed me.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

And that inevitably arises now the question is whether this effort has really paid off with the PE ladders. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

But please judge for you, so the TSM would look with the  Plastruct ladders, which I initially wanted to use. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/901/ZGYrjM.jpg)

So, just as well that I have accepted this challenge, because that would probably still have been a bit too much break in style beside the thin pipes, or what do you think?  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 08/08/2014 03:27 PM
Your extra work has paid off, I'm sure you'll be glad at the End ....
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/08/2014 03:46 PM
Thanks Dave for your nice words, I also hope, it looks like this. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 08/08/2014 04:38 PM
Looking real good.  The difference in scale is amazing. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/09/2014 02:48 AM



You can guess what I might say about the ladders. The PE ladders are much more elegant and much finer detail. The paint Dept. did a good job and the delicate nature of the PE matches the abstract characture of the TSM's very nicely. Great looking TSM's!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/09/2014 11:21 AM
Thanks Tom and Rich for your kind words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, the PE ladders are really very delicate but also very fragile and look great on the TSM beside the thin pipes. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

From the scale they are about the same, but the thickness is the main difference. Since the PE ladders with 0.1 mm thickness are very close to the real thing, while the Plastruct ladders with 0.7 mm are simply too thick and do not fit optically into the overall picture. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/11/2014 07:33 PM
Hi there,

after the support brackets on the LH2 TSM were successfully installed, I have continued on LOX TSM to not get out of practice. I went back to the same procedure, inserting the brackets and bringing with the spacer to the same height, and then gluing. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/746/b1TkfT.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/s4T3FB.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/LutGDF.jpg)

After that was done, I looked at the fitting, if the distances of the supports coincide with the respective rungs, which fit quite well so far.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/b2BxYF.jpg)

And so it was ready to start now with the gluing of the ladders, before what I've been scared stiff so far.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Before applying the glue I have carefully located the ladder with tape, so it can not slip when gluing. And then I dabbed the first two brackets at the top under the ladder with CA and slightly pressed the ladder, which glued immediately, luckily in the right place. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/FTaFcM.jpg)

And so it went on to the lower bracket, and finally the top two angled ends were glued. Thus the first ladder was finally firmly glued and I could now stand up the TSM and viewed relaxed from all sides. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/746/40YqQx.jpg)

How do I find the overall picture can be seen, at least I had it all imagined at the beginning. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/536/eoHOYn.jpg)

At the brackets under the rungs as well as in some other places I still have retouched something, and that's about it.
 
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/PMLAR1.jpg)

So friends, this positive impression gives me real boost, so it can go on with the same ladder on the LH2 TSM tomorrow.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/12/2014 09:39 PM
Hi Guys,

let's go on, now the long ladder is to install to the LH2 TSM. The support brackets I had already glued, so that only the ladder had to be glued, which has worked quite well. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

And so the panoramic view looks without much deviation. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/3OVX0q.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/pjRoFc.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/5m9kIw.jpg)

Well, and also from the side this couple looks very nice, right?  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/MXYeAM.jpg)

And in contrast to the rustic Plastruct ladders these PE ladders fit now great with the other details. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/u7wyrs.jpg)

And for a change, here's another size comparison that is perhaps clearer than ever this cent coin.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/913/nhcHlf.jpg)

Tomorrow I'll try my luck with the ladders on boxes, which are those with the different length feet. For their assembly I've been thinking that it is useful first to put the ladder on the back of the box, because then I can use the front of the box or as additional support, but which is then unfortunately occupied.

But for mounting the ladder on the front of the box I can hang up the TSM on the back above the head, because there are no pipes, as opposed to the front, which is therefore not suitable as a bearing surface, what is essential to note. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 08/13/2014 03:17 AM
look good Manfred.  that scale is amazing.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/14/2014 05:52 PM
Masterfull work Manfred, amazing!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 08/14/2014 05:56 PM
hmmm.   maybe i need to count the rungs on the ladders :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/14/2014 09:59 PM
Thanks Tom and Rich for your encouraging compliments. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

These TSMs I also like it very much, as I had imagined in my boldest dreams.

BTW Tom, if you want to count the rungs, then make sure that you use close-up images from the MLP-2 at the STS-6.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/15/2014 12:06 PM
Hello all together,

today the ladder on the box of the LOX-TSM is to be installed, first on the back, as already described. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

First I've inserted the support brackets up to the spacer,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041072.jpg)

and then fixed with CA.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/mrhKQ8.jpg)

Here the ladder is provisionally placed to check the distances of the supports that fit quite well,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/YpUmem.jpg)

and here it is already glued and also sits quite well.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041075.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/8ZV4fe.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/8DvvG5.jpg)

So, that would be also done, now only the slightly longer ladder on the front of this TSM is missing, but not for long.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/17/2014 04:27 PM
But before that I have yet installed the rear ladder on the LH2 TSM. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Here are the already known steps in the picture, the support brackets with spacers,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/911/BxyyB9.jpg)

glued with CA,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/907/NOKwzE.jpg)

and the ladder fitting.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/mUiPzR.jpg)

So, and now it is (hopefully) fixed in place and can be climbed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/wRxznd.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/743/Mn8zUH.jpg)

And so is the back of the TSM's now almost complete.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/axY8vc.jpg)

Now only missing the ROFIs (Radially Outward Firing ignitors), whose task I had already briefly explained.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040574.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=22789&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=04pd1076&sn=KSC-04pd-1076)
Source: NASA

Here on this amazing panoramic picture you can see both versions clearly, the simple ROFI front and rear the double, and you can scroll from one to another TSM around. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/KuEcqK.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AMLPUpprSSMEExh131031/)
Source: NASA

These things are quite small, but I will try anyhow and gather the stuff I need.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/20/2014 11:18 PM
  Good luck finding some small parts for the ROFI's. I know how you are tho, you will use some found objects to build these I'm sure! Also I noticed that in your photo of the TSM's (with the red arrows) that the LH2 TSM has a retaining loop around the two pipes at the center top that I don't see on your model. It almost looks like a vertical ladder rung? Anyway, just an observasion. The build continues to inspire us all. Great Job!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 08/21/2014 05:23 AM
You guys are getting a little to anal with this :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/25/2014 03:44 PM
  Good luck finding some small parts for the ROFI's. I know how you are tho, you will use some found objects to build these I'm sure! Also I noticed that in your photo of the TSM's (with the red arrows) that the LH2 TSM has a retaining loop around the two pipes at the center top that I don't see on your model. It almost looks like a vertical ladder rung? Anyway, just an observasion. The build continues to inspire us all. Great Job!!

Thanks Rich for your nice words and a compliment for your watchful eagle eyes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

This elbow pipe that you see was a part of the SSWS that did not exist in this form on MLP-2 during  STS-6 and was retrofitted later there, as seen here at this image of STS-51F (1985).

(http://imageshack.com/a/img537/2183/d4FrTw.jpg)
Source: NASA

BTW, you've guessed it, I just try some variants of the rear double-ROFIs.

Tom has it already built, but mine are unfortunately only half the size and it's a bit more difficult. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/28/2014 10:43 PM
Hello friends,

last week, my PC has passed after 9 years faithful service, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif) so I had to do something to get back to be able to act. But my son has built me a great new machine. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Well, these little ROFI details are really tricky, but if you can't make it, you have to bite the teeth together and come up with something. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037139.jpg)

Therefore, first here's a picture to illustrate the dimensions of the ROFIs to be scratch built.

Left side you see a first attempt for the simple ROFI at the front with a ferrule, as I have already used for the MLP lampshades. The sleeve has an outer diameter of 1.6 mm, which could still accept. And therein is  inserted no tube, but a 0.5 mm brass wire, but what you probably already could hardly distinguish. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041188.jpg)

And right beside it is a squeezed to about 1.5 mm plastic tubes ( 2.5 mm), which although again widens a little, but about the shape of the rear double-ROFIs results.
Maybe the shape is more successful if you heated the tube prior to compression, but maybe there is also another solution. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Now a little insight into the necessary preparations before I can start scratching, because for that I need the dimensions of the individual components without which otherwise nothing happens. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

I will start with the Double-ROFI on the back of the LOX-TSM, which you can see in this picture.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041189.jpg)
Source: NASA

I've now looked more closely at the monitor and identified the main dimensions (mm), and I have chosen the width of the service box from my TSM with 4.3 mm (Purple) as a reference. But unfortunately you can only difficulty recognizing themselves in the higher resolution. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/angry.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041191.jpg) (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041190.jpg)

Red are the required dimensions and spacings of parts, and green is the most important mounting dimensions for the two feed pipes and the holder.

But so be it, the image should also give just a glimpse of how hard it is, before you can get started at all, apart from the dimensions altogether. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

On my monitor I can see the numbers well, and therefore it can now actually go. And luckily the front ROFI will then be something easier to build ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 08/29/2014 02:41 AM
Wow, Good Luck with those!  That will be a big challenge, but I have no doubt you can do it!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 08/29/2014 04:46 PM
  I knew that you would find an item around the house to build the ROFI's with! Nice job. Tom was right, we're getting to anal with the measurments. I hope that installing these under the ladders is not to hard to do for you, but it will just add to the outstanding detail! Keep up with the great show.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/29/2014 05:59 PM
Thanks Ron for your nice words and your confidence, I will do my best and have already some ideas. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

Thanks Rich, you know me and my slogan, Nothing is impossible. (http://www.mind-craft.de/Sml/top2.gif)

BTW, Tom can speak well, he could build everything twice as big as me. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 08/30/2014 10:29 PM
Hi friends,

now I will continue with the rear Double-ROFI on the LOX-TSM, of which I have a very nice direct shot here, of which I have picked me further dimensions for the selection of suitable parts, so inter alia the diameters of the inner tubes and the casing.
The ROFIs are identical on both TSMs, which you can convince yourself, by scroll once around in the panoramic shot. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/osu97F.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AMLPUpprSSMEExh131031/)
Source: NASA

Here are some parts to be seen, which might also be considered for the ROFIs, such as ferrules, brass wire and U-profiles.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/zmxifF.jpg)

For the casing of the double-ROFIs I then tried it out a few variants. In my estimation this should be about 1.5 mm high, 2.2 mm wide and 2 mm deep. The two inner tubes could be made from brass wires ( 0.5 mm).

In the first attempt I have a strip of aluminum foil 7.0x2.0x0.1 mm gradually rolled in my bending tool.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/WGV4RO.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/afy3Ks.jpg)

Here you still have to stick the sleeve together below.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041196.jpg)

Here, this sleeve is trial basis placed on the TSM, but it is still a bit too wide through the adhesive seam.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041197.jpg)

In the second attempt, I have an aluminum tube ( 2.0 mm) gently compressed to 1.5 mm, which looks relatively well in shape and the solution comes closer. Now you would have them only to separate a 2 mm long piece.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/yZBIyq.jpg)

Here is another attempt with a paper strip but a bit too wide and probably more likely to retire.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/NHPmZC.jpg)

And here are the aluminum tube with inserted brass wires ( 0.5 mm) for the two inner tubes, what my expectations quite close to that. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/BZNnSF.jpg)

And finally, another attempt with a ferrule (2.1 mm diameter), which was a 2 mm long piece separated and compressed to 1.5 mm. And this variant I will now probably take, because the sleeve is a little more thin-walled. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/ZBQzRD.jpg)

That's it for today with the experiments, and tomorrow then follow the bent pipes and the bracket.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/01/2014 10:53 PM
Hi Guys,

and the construction of the rear LOX-ROFI I will now continue, the installation can be seen in this picture here very nice. This protrudes due to its double version substantially further outwards than the front ROFI and is directed slightly inwards, while the holder is perpendicular to the box. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/8e5aTc.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/STS134R2Btwn110311/)
Source: NASA

After careful consideration of these views, I have realized more and more, that I must perform the installation in two steps.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)
First I have to install the bracket to the base plate and the "double tube" with the inner tubes directly on the front edge of the box with the angled bracket sits a bit under the ladder. And in the second step, I can then install from the other side, the two bent pipes which run beneath the ladder and attached to the service box, as you can see here again.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041189.jpg)
Source: NASA

For the holder I initially wanted to use a U-beam, which can be seen in the following image, either a piece of Evergreen profile 1,0x1,5 mm or a self-built profile 1,5x1,5 mm with slightly higher sides because the ROFI must continue to protrude outward. In addition, the housing is located on a pattern of the base plate of paper.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041366.jpg)

For the manufacture of the pipes I have now drawn their position in this template from the Paper Kit,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/sKCY23.jpg)

then bent them from brass wire (0.5 mm),

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/1v43fZ.jpg)

and tried temporarily together with the sleeve, but even without the base plate.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/4ly4QK.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/biULzg.jpg)

And it seems also so far already times completely good to fit. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/yrwMKr.jpg)

And here I've tested with my pattern, the position of the holder that sits on the box next to a support bracket.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041372.jpg)

The place is already times right, but the final shape and the seat I have to think again and test in conjunction with the sleeve. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

That's why I started to build the front half with the holder and drawn the base plate to 0.3 mm sheet on which the double pipe stands with the two inner tubes, initially everything again on a trial basis. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/UU6W54.jpg)

If the holder will then be mounted, I can make the fitting on the box and see if or how well fit the part. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/01/2014 11:38 PM
  The master bender hard at work! This looks good, and of course more details. Great job!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/05/2014 02:29 PM
Thanks Rich for the nice words. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040576.gif)

Hello together,

today I have taken the holder up again in more detail, I will now scratchbuild from individual parts, because the Evergreen U-profile does not match yet so right. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

First of all I want to try building from paper, and this is the blank of the tiny holder, for which I have used the lower sketch.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/Gj6aDT.jpg)

Here it is cut, and next to the double tube sleeve on the base plate. Below is an evergreen strip 1,0x0,3 mm, which I will use as a base in the final plastic holder. For the sides I suppose then also 0.3 mm sheet.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/Er2NJa.jpg)

Then I folded the holder and glued to the base plate with the sleeve, which is seen here from the front,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/KOuWH7.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/dgunCv.jpg)

and here from behind.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/q0Og5L.jpg)

As I said, that's all for now only provisionally, to see whether and how the size fits.

And here I have put the ROFI to the TSM, and I must say, so similar could fit that already. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/GGYARz.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/sZVK1H.jpg)

Or what do you think? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/06/2014 04:02 PM
Hey Manfred,

  It's kinda hard to tell from the photo, but this looks to be slightly oversized. This could be from the angle of the photo, not sure tho. Mabe a photo with the brace with the piping attached. I do like the look of the found material and the spray knozzels together. very nice craftsmanship!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/06/2014 04:52 PM
Hello Rich,

yeah, you have good eagle eyes, but that's just the prototype of the rear ROFI. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Meanwhile, I have the dimensions specified something else, thereby the sleeve becomes slightly shorter, and the final sheet construction will make the holder something of filigree. And for the pipes I'll use 0.4 mm copper wire instead of 0.5 mm brass wire. Then the ROFI will certainly better fit for the TSM design. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/11/2014 03:14 PM
Hi folks,

now I know a little bit more abaout the ROFI details.

During detailed definition of the dimensions I unexpectedly found still new close-ups from a different perspective on which I could detect and measure the ROFI details more clearly.  (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

It has struck me suddenly that the holders of the rear and front ROFIs distinguish. While the rear holder has a U-shaped construction, which I was not previously aware,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041365.jpg)
Source: NASA

can be seen at the front holder that this only has a slanted stiffening up, and down is open. Without this knowledge I had built this holder U-shaped too.   (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/kPvQZX.jpg)
Source: NASA

Here are now the new parts for the ROFIs, in the middle 0.5 mm brass wire (gray) and 0.4 mm copper wire.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/743/aYm4tT.jpg)

Above are the parts for the rear double-ROFIs and in front that for the front simple ROFIs. For the holders I take 0.2 mm sheet, and for the sleeves I use ferrules, 2 mm (rear) and 1.5 mm (front).

Now I just have to shorten the sleeves and flatten slightly the rear ROFIs, followed by the assembly, which I'm very excited.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/15/2014 03:38 PM
Hello together,

let's go on with the next update. First, I have separated the sleeves (1.8 mm) with the Dremel cutting disc, which I've left a few tenths as a precaution supernatant. For cutting I have kept the ferrules on both sides with toothpicks and slowly brought up to the cutting disc. Although I am going again proceeded with extreme caution, the first sleeve piece is flown away shortly before cutting, never to return, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) what could possibly have been due to low speed. In the second experiment with a much higher speed it worked well even better.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/APXa9K.jpg)

After I had filed down the supernatant to 1.8 mm, I have compressed the sleeve together with toothpick in the sliding gauge with a lot of feeling to 1.5 mm, which is apparently the best way to avoid kinking of the sleeve. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif) Under the sleeve is already the base plate, the shape of which I modified according to the original.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/UEKVYf.jpg)

And the size and shape of the sleeve fit quite well to the base plate.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/wJMohJ.jpg)

For gluing the tiny side parts of the holder to the center bar I had to borrow again the headset magnifier of my nice secretary. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/742/8te3Ov.jpg)

And nevertheless I had some problems here, because these particles let keep hardly in tweezers or fix, so they can easily slip and had to be corrected several times.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
 
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/jcIHCo.jpg)

Because I was not really happy with the result but I was thinking that it would be better if I did not clipping the the center bar to the final length, but leave a little longer and fix with tape, whereby the side parts should be positioned easier and especially more accurately. No sooner said than done!(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/DA2dyx.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/w0LXdm.jpg)

And that worked actually better,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/ziuTQL.jpg)

so I was able to adjust the base plate and then glue.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/1038hS.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/746/mGNfvc.jpg)

In this form, the holder can also be handled much easier, as here at the fitting on the LOX-TSM. And also during painting the longer center bar is very practical as a holder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/9wpc3M.jpg)

Then arrived just in time the ordered brass tube of 0.5 mm for the inner ROFI tubes, whose optics I've tried the same times as compared to the brass wire (0.5 mm), as you can see here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/vJBBrg.jpg)

Although this is only a tiny detail that will probably barely recognizable at the model later, but it corresponds to the real thing much better than the wire. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/15/2014 05:54 PM
Awesome!  I was just about to ask if you had a magnifier rig to see what you are working on, or was your eyesight still that good. Now I see your secretary wearing them! 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/15/2014 09:48 PM
Thanks Ron, 
yep, for such a tiny stuff my old eyes need this magnifier.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/16/2014 12:33 PM
Hello folks,

and this madness could also be topped and would even remain in scale. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As you can see in the picture, from the inner tubes are running still thin wires, I suspect ignition electrodes of the spark generator, or something like that. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/J30L5j.jpg)
Source: NASA

I have now made ​​my fun and estimated its diameter. If I take the diameter of the inner tube with 0.5 mm as reference, the wire diameter should be around 0.08 mm. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/019.gif) And introduce yourself, I've actually found in the thinnest litz wire (0.6 mm) I have, a very thin copper wire of this diameter, hard to believe, but true !!! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Such a small wire I threaded into the tube (0.5 mm) and the sleeve only slipped provisionally around, ignoring the concentricity of the tube in the sleeve. And this pic came out here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/viN5Ul.jpg)

Although the autofocus of my digicam in this macro shot in artificial light so had its problems, one can perhaps see the little wire in the inner tube, I hope. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/16/2014 08:40 PM
YOU'RE MAD MANFRED!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/16/2014 11:16 PM
Maybe you're right, but are not all modeler a little bit mad? (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/019.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/17/2014 02:20 AM
Maybe you're right, but are not all modeler a little bit mad? (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/019.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)

One look around my house, and I would have to say...yes!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/19/2014 08:41 PM
Thanks Ron,

well at least one agrees with me, because I'm fortunately not the only crazy guy here. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/19/2014 09:39 PM
Hello together,

so now I have to go to the sleeves and the small tubes, and later perhaps also to the little wires in these tubes, of which here already one (0.08 mm) is threaded in the right tube, actually, but probably hard to see, right?  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041519.jpg)

Next, the sleeve was glued with CA on the base plate, which appears oversized from this near anything, so do not be fooled.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041520.jpg)

And here's the fitting on the LOX-TSM.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/JEBDJ4.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/fJJagd.jpg)

So far, so good. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif) But before I now insert the mini-tubes, I started with the holder of the LH2-TSM. To fix the center bar this time I have taken a mini-magnet which is more practical than a tape-strip.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/URXlO4.jpg)

And this works really great,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/d3kZz8.jpg)

and nothing can slip more! (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/iOKNe1.jpg)

For sticking the sleeve also one needs firm support, so therefore in the vise, but be careful! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/itxkkM.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/AfMGKZ.jpg)

And in this position, I now have glued the two tube-stubs ( 0.5 mm, 2.3 mm) with CA and of course put the magnifying glass. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/9RAUjn.jpg)

And so the ROFI looks initially at the LH2 TSM, here without the little wires, but so far pretty good.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/y8VASn.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/rcdzYn.jpg)

And already at this distance, you can see that one can hardly recognize something from the small tubes, and later of the little wires certainly even less ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/oiToXV.jpg)

But the heck with it! In close range you already can recognize and that's enough for a quiet conscience. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/n060.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/20/2014 11:14 PM
Hi all,

I want to briefly report how it went with the ROFIs. Meanwhile, I have completed the rear ROFI for the LH2 TSM according to the same procedure.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/q2DPTe.jpg)

The gluing of the supposed spark plug wires I have for now postponed. Since I'm namely not quite sure if that really are during launch off or not, especially since there are also pictures where the cables are not implemented.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/BdtBDJ.jpg)
Source: NASA

Therefore, I have asked here whether maybe someone can answer. Perhaps the ROFIs are armed ​​only before the launch and inserted the igniter with the cables etc..  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)

So I'll wait for any answers that could maybe even clarify, and have now started with the front ROFIs (see pic above). Whose structure is relatively simply, as shown in the following pictures, and was carried out in a manner analogous to the rear ROFIs.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/OIhakU.jpg)

The tiny strut I could just hold with the tip of the tweezers yet to stick. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/ueiGfr.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/E3LfwS.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/tjyXxE.jpg)

The hardest part was gluing the short tube (2.3 mm) in the sleeve, that's actually jumped out of my tweezers, but fortunately I was able to find it on the floor yet. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/mq1cMP.jpg)

And here is the fitting on the front of LOX-TSM  to see where the ROFI is only once placed provisionally.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/jfm7A2.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/742/tOa3lU.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/J2Sz1I.jpg)

And tomorrow I'm going to install the feed pipes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 09/21/2014 11:59 AM
Manfred.

Here a re a couple of close ups i have.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/21/2014 01:46 PM
Hey Tom,

thanks for the pics, the first I know, the second is a beautiful rear view of LH2 ROFI.

This is all quite small stuff, since you had it a little easier at double size. But soon I made it. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

BTW, what do your SSWS pipes? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 09/22/2014 03:26 AM
I have not worked on anything for a few weeks.  was away on vacation and some other projects have taken my time.  i have way to many hobbies.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/22/2014 10:37 PM
Okay Tom, you let time!

Hello Guys,
let the sparks fly, (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) these ROFIs hold me up quite nicely, but I pull now through, with or without ignition wire. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Therefore, here comes the second front ROFI before I'm out of practice.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/Tnbos5.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/742/p6W3i6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/oGxurs.jpg)

Thus the ROFIs now would be half finished, only missing the feed pipes on the rear side.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/B1y0gt.jpg)

And so now I have made ​​further with the front ROFI of the LOX TSM. The pipe is made ​​of 0.4 mm copper wire that can be bent nicely. And the little gray disc becomes the connecting plate of the pipe.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/qxujrD.jpg)

Since the front ROFIs only have a relatively simple pipe, I will install this now but before painting. Then I can glue the complete ROFI after bonding the support brackets and then put the ladder on top of it.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/lVreXs.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/vB7h0n.jpg)

And so does the fitting on TSM, and I would think that fits quite well.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/afT6E3.jpg)

The rear bend of the pipe is still too long, and if you look closely, it looks as if the pipe in the middle slightly beveled to the TSM wall. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/TLjzud.jpg)
Source: NASA

I could maybe adapt something. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 09/23/2014 12:03 AM
now you need a little high voltage transformer that will generate sparks :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/23/2014 08:41 PM
Yep Tom, that would be the absolute highlight, as can be seen here at the beginning of this impressive video from Endeavour's final launch (STS-134).  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UgoNkXIlZEY
Source: NASA (YouTube)

As I suspected, the supply pipe of the front ROFI is actually slightly inclined angled down to the TSM wall, as you can see here pretty well in this picture.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1600x1200q90/537/OtvtEG.jpg)
Source: NASA

But I'm still not quite satisfied with the first prototype of the front ROFI. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif) That's why I now have clarified and added some details, and these are now the final parts of the front ROFIs.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/PwKB58.jpg)

I hope that the two small cap nuts are still visible, if not, just the magnifier can help. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

The first round connector plate (made ​​of paper) was yet a little too big, because with 0.4 mm wire diameter that should not be 2.0 mm but rather 1.7 mm in diameter. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

So I have converted a ferrule ( 2.0 mm) into a small punch tool, since the sleeve has precisely this inner diameter. Unfortunately, my little tool has survived only the first use and then was slightly bent, but now I have ever got a plate with 1.7 mm diameter, and the second I will also get still. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/25/2014 07:27 PM
  You have some great photos of all the objects that you're modeling for the TSM's. Thanks for posting the impressive video, really great stuff.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/25/2014 09:26 PM
Yep, these reference photos and videos are very important for me and a valuable inspiration for scratch building and propel me forward, to develop new ideas to puzzle out workable solutions. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/26/2014 07:09 PM
Hello folks,

and here we go, the same parts I needed again for the second front ROFI. For the second base plate I first had to make a new punching tool,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/901/6ZXqKK.jpg)

and then bending the supply line and cutting rings for the union nuts. Before fitting the rings I have this slightly widened.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/7FqNpn.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/4seDfB.jpg)

And then I have the supply lines modified and adapted a bit.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/DLaGuY.jpg)

After that I have bent on the TSM-template the inner line from ​​0,4 mm copper wire, where I proceeded step by step. The difficulty here is that the supply line is relatively small and must be made two bends in tight spaces. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/902/R6SRrK.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/Z4cFI7.jpg)

Thus, the following bow of the line up was pretty tricky, because it could be only a skimpy millimeter. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/YDOWbB.jpg)

The line runs between the service hatch-box and the ladder, as seen here,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041189.jpg)
Source: NASA

and this fits quite well so far. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/913/plc7UA.jpg)

The next bow runs now right to the ROFI holder and is also relatively short.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/7ofXVx.jpg)

And now the last cut only follows, then this supply line is finished,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/FfI8Yx.jpg)

and can be tried together with the ROFI.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/qyCua6.jpg)

As you can see, the front end is still too long and needs to be filed down slightly. But as the two parts fit together already quite well. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

Now the same procedure is carried out only laterally reversed for the supply line at the LH2-ROFI as long as the work routines are fresh. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/26/2014 09:14 PM
Mr. Bender,

  Very nice details with the ROFI's!! Very fine work!
 I had a question about the ladders that you have used in these photos. I know about compromising with materials and scale, so the question is just to bother you a bit. Sorry.

  When I look at your NASA photos I have noticed the the ROFI, in the photo, is placed between the fourth and fifth ladder rungs. On the model, the ROFI is placed between the eighth and nineth rung!? It's just the PE ladders that you had nothing to do with the designing of. I just thought I should give you a hard time about it.

  Great job, can't wait to see all the ROFI's installed and the TSM"s in place!! Keep modeling my friend!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/26/2014 10:12 PM
Hi Rich,
thank you for your words of appreciation. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Your eyes are still good, and you have correctly observed. But without my reference photo you had had no comparison and probably not noticed, right? But I show you these photos anyway, because I have no problem and no secrets, and everyone should be able to compare my model with the real thing. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

But the explanation is quite simple, this difference is reduced to the PE ladders. While the width is about right and corresponds to the width of the service hatch-box, as you can see, the rung spacing is smaller than for the original ladder. But those are the compromises that I have to live, no problem. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 09/27/2014 12:20 AM
mine is between the 4th and 5th  :)   i think sometimes we tend to get overly critical of what we are building.  I know i do.  But we have to remember we have to make a lot of compromises when we build.  Sometimes it is just to difficult to get scale items like ladders to look 100% accurate.   I admire Manfred patience in building them.  I also admire your work Rich.

A few years ago i wrote an article on modeling where is was complaining about what i called 'rivet counters'.   Now i have became one of them.   But i still keep in mind its our interpretation of the real thing.

Now don't everyone yell at me. :(
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 09/27/2014 02:24 AM
Hah.  If there one thing I am not, it's a rivet counter.  The other thing I am not is a straight line painter.

My goal is it looks good from 6 feet away.  Get closer than that in my house and you get punched.  I enter contests, but just to help fill up the space table.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/27/2014 12:16 PM
Hey Guys,

don't worry, be happy. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
I know how Richo says that, and we make fun with each other frequently. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/40.gif)
He is also a very ambitious modeler and doing a great job. But he is also no rivets counter, when then a rungs counter. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/019.gif)

BTW, I fully agree with you, we have to make a lot of compromises when we are scratch building.

But with the ladders are only peanuts, the main compromise for me are the old Revell Launch Tower Kits (4910/4911) with the crazy scale mix. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

Therefore, one must try to make the best of it, or you have to build everything yourself as you are. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/27/2014 02:00 PM
You tell 'em Manfred!

  Of course we are just poking fun at each other! Like the "Man" said, I'm no rivit counter, by a long ways. I'm real good at pulling things out of my a.. tho, just look at the lighting for my crawler. Anyway, it's all about having some fun and working on a great hobby and talking to the great modelers that post their work here.

  Have fun all, and keep modeling!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 09/27/2014 02:47 PM
It is whatever makes YOU happy!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/29/2014 09:18 AM
Hey Ron,
I fully agree with you, that's the main thing. For all guys one can not make it right. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/n060.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 09/29/2014 08:36 PM
Hi all together,

I would rather still remain on LOX-TSM and continue with the outer supply line of the rear ROFIs. It goes to the right and then in a double bend upward.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/VEzILS.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/WRnakg.jpg)

And here already together with the ROFI to the test on the template,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/i9Ke8A.jpg)

and here on the TSM. 

As you can see, the line but hanging down above, whereby everything has slipped somewhat.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)  This shows that these test fittings are quite a stressful affair already and not work the first time around. But one needs to check the situation of these small parts already accurate and correct if necessary, when everything has to fit together correctly later.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/YB3bbV.jpg)

By supporting this looks better. And now is missing only a short arc to the right up to the base plate.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/86c2jR.jpg)

From the arrangement it's okay, just above the line is slipping too far inwards, because there simply is missing support.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/jiNiHI.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/H5cWxD.jpg)

Now I must not forget winding up the union nuts, and then missing the base plate and a small bracket on the inner line. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 09/30/2014 11:35 PM
Nicely done with the bending!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/02/2014 10:01 PM
Thanks Rich, and therefore on to the next round bending. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Since the test fitting of the supply lines but was too stressful under the ladder at TSM, I have come up with another solution on the TSM template without a ladder and some balsa strips used as backing. Then, the lines can still place much easier and align. Because at these small dimensions one have to try a few times, whether agree the lengths and possibly correct the bends minimal until then everything fits properly. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/nBLOM1.jpg)

As union nuts but I will now use the smaller rings, because they fit somehow better to the 0,4 mm copper wire, and also at the junction of the lines to the base plate is only very little space.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/3SZS1Z.jpg)

The threading of the rings was again as a test of patience ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/W5Ltyq.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/x0e49s.jpg)

Here one can see that the rings form a contiguous region.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041903.jpg)

The ROFI lines on LOX-TSM would be so far finished and could be painted. Therefore let us go on the LH2 TSM, only the lines are just reversed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

That was again the same procedure as on the other TSM and started with the bending of the lines on the TSM template.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/HLatk9.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/LE4VcQ.jpg)

While this may seem like a no-brainer, these hand grips require a full concentration, patience and tact. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/WWGGbF.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/d1uFpa.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/V1SJ9n.jpg)

But as the first line already fits quite well to the holder. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 10/03/2014 02:50 PM
Just Too Cool Manfred, really like your attention to detail..
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/03/2014 04:19 PM
Thanks Dave for your nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Hello friends,

today on our public holiday just a small next step, the other ROFI supply line at LH2 TSM still missing. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/746/hHqBu6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/Dr1yDI.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/746/NLctka.jpg)

That's it, see you soon. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/10/2014 10:38 AM
Hi all,

it is still not quite done, so continue with the nice ROFIs. And therefore once again previously the obligatory test fitting on LH2 TSM.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/kFqSJg.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/y8wF0B.jpg)

So, and these are now all ROFI parts that can now go to the paint shop.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041889.jpg)

And so now to the ladders on the front of the TSMs, which indeed still missing, and for that I must first again glue the support brackets, of course, again with spacers, everything as usual ...  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Ne0r2g.jpg)

but with a tiny difference. The ladders on the front are longer and go down to the SSME-Blast Shield. Since there the service flap box is at the end, the lower support bracket can only stand on one leg, which one can see here.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041891.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/a5aAsw.jpg)

But this is a fallacy, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) because on one leg can not stand long anyway, especially not secure enough. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Good thing I have ever looked closely. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)  Because as you can see on the next picture the ladder at the end is standing on two legs too, as it should be, only the support looks a little different.

The red arrows indicate the second last and the last strut pair, and the green arrow points to a support plate which is welded just above the Blast Shield on TSM. At this plate second strut is mounted, here still obscured by the thicker tube,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/Y0WQkD.jpg)
Source: NASA

but as you can see better from the back.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Qd8Wq9.jpg)
Source: NASA

So I have to modify the lower attachment still, accordingly, let's go the whole hog.

But for a positive feeling I ever get the front ladder and the ROFI placed provisionally,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/3rnxbE.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up041895.jpg)

what it looks quite passable, I think.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 10/10/2014 03:58 PM
I am going to add ladder rungs to my MEM I am working on and I was puzzling how to align and space them out.  Then I read your latest post and said, DUH!  And he's been doing that all along.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/12/2014 08:30 AM
Hi Mike,
yep, one just has to keep his eyes open.

Hello folks,

this got me no peace left with the mounting of the ladder at the bottom.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) And because in my mind I'm already back at SSWS, suddenly pictures attracted over in my mind's eye from the time before my brutal demolition of the SRB-Holes,  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif) when I had already thought about myself intensively.

In NASATech.net  there are great panoramic shots of the branched pipe system that is installed around the two SRB chambers. But much less images can be found by the pipes and spray nozzles which are arranged around the front SSME chamber because there usually the service platform is hanging in it which covers everything else.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

But then I got from a friend from the ARC Forum a few pictures without this platform where one can see front the pipe system very well. These images I have now tracked down, and they confirm my guess of this particular ladder support on the lowest rung. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

What is only hardly to see on the rear view,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Qd8Wq9.jpg)
Source: NASA

here in the side view is very nice to see in detail how the inner strut is attached to the triangular support bracket.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/m3ybwU.jpg)
Source: NASA

And while looking at this image you can clearly see that the pipe coming from behind through this lower pair of struts up and runs behind the ladder to the right. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) And therefore I can attach this holder only after the installation of the lower pipe at the foot of TSMs. But postponed is not abandoned. 

So it can now go on with the support brackets for the ladder on the front of the LOX-TSM, here again with spacers,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/oUyvtM.jpg)

and here without.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/m4CIQq.jpg)

And also the test fitting of the ladder above the ROFI fits again.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/2Tsc2N.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/DiiNfT.jpg)

And now I can even look in the paint shop, whether the guys have already started, or still stiring the color.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 10/13/2014 08:16 PM
Looking real good Manfred.   Keep up the great work.
I have to get back to mine.   To many hobbies.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/13/2014 09:10 PM
Thanks Tom for the kind words and your come back, I can't wait to see your next progress. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/14/2014 10:25 PM
Actually, it would have been ready to start painting, but then a little detail I still noticed.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

In this picture some time ago I had shown the additional rungs above the TSM-ladders, I've meanwhile upgraded.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040569.jpg)
Source: NASA

However that is MLP-3 in the last Atlantis mission (STS-135) and not MLP-2, which was in use at the STS-6 and has some small differences. And one of them can be seen here in this image of the last mission of the Endeavour (STS-134), when  MLP-2 was also used.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/g4q7Hr.jpg)
Source: NASA

Since there is an additional angled rung, so to speak, as a transition from the ladder to the top four rungs, and this rung can not be missed. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

And so see the sprouts from 0.2 mm brass wire.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/YpWIeX.jpg)

The location is a little tricky, because the rung with the angled foot is standing on the upper end of the box and the other a little lower on the TSM wall. At the point is hardly any space, but when I try my best, maybe it might work.

Therefore I have the holes again carefully prepunched in a proven manner with the acupuncture needle, here on the back of LH2 TSM.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/3mMAyi.jpg)

And here the rung already is in place.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/QKfFTH.jpg)

And on the front it has worked too.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/EyTRbT.jpg)

And here, finally, the rungs on the LOX-TSM.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Baoyww.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/EkFQA0.jpg)

And thus all ROFI parts together with the rungs finally can go in the paintshop,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/aAe9j1.jpg)

the guys are waiting eagerly namely. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 10/14/2014 10:34 PM
Very nice, again! 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 10/14/2014 11:27 PM
Masterful, Manfred!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 10/15/2014 07:45 PM
  Beautifull work Manfred! It sure seems like it has been a long haul to get to this point, the paint boys have been waiting for like, about a year and a half to paint those ladders! LOL  I know with a little prep work the TSM's will be installed, but I'm guessing not untill after the SSWS pipping and water bags have been finished. Really, we can't wait to see what you do next.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/15/2014 08:44 PM
Thanks Mike & Ron for your nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Also you Rich thank you, you're still a prankster, but I really like your sense of humor. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)
Imagine, after painting the first double-ROFI the gun was clogged and the guys have thrown the towel, holy cow!!!

Tomorrow they receive an official warning. 

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/17/2014 05:13 PM
Hi all,

because of difficulties with the gun in the paint shop, the friends had to clean everything again. Presumably they had not enough diluted the color, so that the nozzle was already clogged after the first double-ROFI. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

That's why I've tried again a detail that struck me during the study of ROFI details, but so far I have not followed up.

These are those handles marked with red arrows here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/743/HsSoVl.jpg)
Source: NASA

As I have now found that the handles relate to the service-flaps that can be opened for maintenance work, as you can see it on the two upper flaps. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

On this older picture here, I had shown the service boxes (red arrows) before. Now I have marked the respective handles with green arrows.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/d86OaD.jpg)
Source: NASA

Probably these are latches that need to be pulled out before opening the flap, which you can see on the handle on the top flap in the first image.

Therefore, I first time calculated the dimensions of these handles to see if this doable at all. And with the two larger handles on the side box I have even started to experiment.

As you can already see, the handles with approx 2x1.5 mm are quite tiny, which I have used first 0.3 mm lead wire. It is soft and can indeed bent  easily, but the handle can deform quite quickly and proved in further assembly as unfavorable (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/w7P45Q.jpg)

That's why I would rather be taken soft brass wire and bent over a rounded plastic core. The base plate I had cut out of paper, but also that I could forget, because you can not position accurately enough the small handle when gluing. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/PntqKQ.jpg)

With the longer fixed strip it went much better,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/qdrEX7.jpg)

than I could cut afterwards. And that is the finished handle.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/ToofHf.jpg)

And as the fitting on the back of LOX-TSM shows, these handles on the boxes doable, now I just need seven more pieces of it.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/j49sdb.jpg)

But the handle on the right side of the upper horizontal box I'll have to forget, because that would be even smaller with about 1,7x0,7 mm and is also sitting under the ladder in a narrow gap (1.5 mm) between the boxes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/17/2014 10:18 PM
Hello,

after the painters came from the rapport, it was now finally progressing again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As suspected, the guys had indeed stirred the color after the long break, but not sufficiently diluted. If I would have the guys let continue to spray, I could have saved myself the effort with the 0.5 mm ROFI tubes and could probably take some rods. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

So it was good that I have remembered the advice of a friend in our German Raumcon forum. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

After that I did not follow the the specifications of manufacturer Revell, after one should mix the Aqua Color paint with the thinner Aqua color mix 4:1, but I followed his suggestion and have selected a mixture ratio of paint to thinner by about 1:3

And so two passes were then made​​, which here are the parts after the first passage,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/743/0QluvL.jpg)

and also the ROFI tubes look great.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/OrAVcw.jpg)

The second pass is now also done, now everything should still really dry, so tomorrow the fitters can finally begin. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 10/18/2014 12:45 AM
They look amazing!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/18/2014 08:37 PM
Thanks Ron,

I like them too, now only missing the tiny supply lines. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 10/21/2014 07:07 PM
The ROFI nozzels are an outstanding piece of modeling!! The entire TSM chapter is just to die for! Great job!

  BTW: I did look up when you first referenced the TSM's build. You started the TSM's build on April 30 of 2013. That is one long haul for the TSM's build!! Outstanding patients and determend engineering, pays off in the end!!  Beautifull work Manfred!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 10/21/2014 08:52 PM
Manfred needs a hobby.  He has to much time on his hands to do all this modeling :)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/21/2014 09:50 PM
The ROFI nozzels are an outstanding piece of modeling!! The entire TSM chapter is just to die for! Great job!

  BTW: I did look up when you first referenced the TSM's build. You started the TSM's build on April 30 of 2013. That is one long haul for the TSM's build!! Outstanding patients and determend engineering, pays off in the end!!  Beautifull work Manfred!!

Thanks Richo for your compliments. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

The TSM redo in 1:144 with all the tiny details was really a stressful chapter, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) but now it's as good as done. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

BTW, the starting point you have already recapitulated correct, but in between I have been about six months working intensively with the lighting, which you have generously embezzled. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/nono.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/21/2014 09:57 PM
Manfred needs a hobby.  He has to much time on his hands to do all this modeling :)

Yeaaaaaaah Tom, you're such a jokester! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)  I think you'll agree with me that for scratch building these details at this scale one needs a little bit more time than in 1:72, isn't it?   

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 10/22/2014 02:05 PM
you sure do.  I admire all of the effort you put into this.  I could never handle that scale.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/30/2014 04:31 PM
Okay Tom, I will not give up and struggle through this tiny stuff.  (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)

Hello Guys,

on the fitters is also no relying, they were reassigned to another site. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

Therefore I've also just taken a couple of days to relax and was over the weekend at the  Spays Days in Darmstadt, supposedly Germany's largest Model Exhibition for Science Fiction, Fantasy and Space on 600 sqm with over 50 exhibitors and hundreds of exhibits and speakers from all over Europe. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

Although it mostly went to SciFi, were also represented a few Real Space models, so among other things, a very impressive paper model of the ISS  (1:80) of my friend Michael from Jlich. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/goodjob.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/745/5h922R.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/Zj5oZ4.jpg)

But I will not digress too far, because I've also continued.

First, I've fiddled about some small handles for TSMs from 0.4 mm copper wire. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/QUUhng.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/BGb6ol.jpg)

As can be individually handled quite difficult on the small base plates, it is especially favorable for the painting, if you have several glued at a stretch and painted,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/86rziB.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/r2CPpq.jpg)

which can then be subsequently separated.

Then I started installing the ROFI supply lines what I'm shirked me for long enough. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) First I made a test fit of the double-ROFI on the back of LOX-TSM,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/904/gstAPu.jpg)

and then finally glued.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/wCuvEF.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/JV5LC7.jpg)

So far so good, the difficulty in mounting the supply lines now is that you must carefully thread before gluing under the ladder through in order not to bend. Simultaneously with the adhesive would be a futile exercise.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)  Even the positioning of the base plate before gluing was not so easy when you do not know exactly where it should sit. That means to try first time with applied supply line and mark slightly, then push the supply line aside and glue the plate. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/5torTV.jpg)

Then I have the supply line as much as possible aligned to the right in the ROFI bracket and left on the base plate and first carefully glued under the ladder on the box and then at the connection points. The details I save my dear ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/907/pH5aNQ.jpg)

And an additional support from U-profile had to be installed even under the supply line.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/W3haSw.jpg)

Well, all beginnings are difficult, maybe I need to correct something here and there.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 10/31/2014 09:45 PM
Hi there,

here is the next ROFI update, maybe the second last ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

Today I have installed the other supply line and also the two handholds. Unfortunately it was quite cloudy today, so I initially artificial light needed on the desk. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/XGKFCg.jpg)

Although the installation of this line went something better out of hand, but the gluing was still stressful enough, especially the tiny handholds were a real test of patience.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)
Thus, the rear double ROFI on LOX-TSM is now finally complete and ready to fire.   

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/yn2BxF.jpg)

Beside the window the colors come out a bit better.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/Q55JZE.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/APF8Qg.jpg)

Then I've already times tried on the simple ROFI on the front side what is a little bit easier without a ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/eSmfhc.jpg)

The ladder above also has enough space and fits well on the holding clamps,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/pxcM7z.jpg)

and  will be glued then as a last.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/3fJx3g.jpg)

This assembly sequence would probably have been also more favorable on the back side, but afterwards one is just always smarter. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 10/31/2014 10:53 PM
Amazing, Manfred.  Sehr Schoena.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 11/01/2014 05:11 AM
I always get excited when I get an email with an update to this thread!  I am never disappointed!  I really love the ISS model.  Your friend did a great job!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/02/2014 01:40 PM
Thanks Mike and Ron for your appreciative words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Hello friends,

I was so glad I had the two supply lines finally mounted on the rear ROFI, and already there was a rude awakening. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif) After clamping of the TSM in the small Proxxon vice in preparation for the installation of the front ROFI suddenly something small fell in front of me on the desk, but luckily not on the floor, because otherwise I would have probably not noticed. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

Well, and that was to my surprise the small external supply line of the rear ROFI, which I must have accidentally crashed into during handling. This is quite possible, since I can barely touch somewhere correctly because of the many details the TSM now. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/angry.gif) Fortunately for him, the supply line but was as far as intact and not bent. Presumably, the main adhesion point on the box under the ladder had too little Sechu, especially since the adhesive contacts at the two connection points of the line (0.4 mm) on the base plate and in the ROFI holder should be hardly sustainable.

But somehow the mishap probably have to happen to me, because I was not  completely satisfied before any case because the end of this outer line on the base plate was slightly longer than of the inner line. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) On that occasion now I could still correct, so that the line now but better fits into the picture. 

Before I go on like on the front, here again two pictures of the back after the repair with better lighting conditions.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up042379.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/743/Q8UzhY.jpg)

Then it went on to the front with the single-ROFI. First, the base plate was then glued and then the ROFI. While the ladder was well suited to the retaining clips, but the gluing of the ladder itself was stressful as usual and did not work the first time around. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/slpMKG.jpg)

But now it's done and it actually looks pretty good. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/RqEaqX.jpg)

The upper transition rung then made the glorious completion.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/N07M86.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up042384.jpg)

Now the LOX-TSM was finally finished after a long and stony road except for the lowermost retaining clip, but it will be installed after the forthcoming SSWS mounting. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/16/2014 09:59 PM
Hello my frieds,
it is a historical moment for me at NSF, the sonic wall from 100.000 views is broken, unbelievable but true !!! (http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif)

I thank you all for the patient companionship of my  STS-6 long-term project  and for the many acclamations, hints, tips and suggestions that have always encouraged me and given power, not to give up, but persevere to go my way. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040576.gif)

BTW, my project is planned from the beginning as a long-term project and was initially more of a great dream. But as you can see, both the dimensions and the own claims as well as my attention to detail have grown over time, even when I think of the lighting of the pad, which is a new dream for me. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Now you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one and I hope someday my dreams will come true ...  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

Imagine ...

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/911/84dhQi.jpg)
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)

But until then there is still a long and winding road to go ... (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif)
In this sense, it should go even further, I shall certainly do my best to achieve my goal, I promise. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: RichO on 11/19/2014 05:35 PM
Conratulations MANFRED!!!  100,000 is a lot of views!! I can imagine, by the time your done with your build, that you would have a million views. Thats somethin that I can imagine for the future.

  The build is lookin just great, keep up the model building spirit, your an insperation to us all!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/19/2014 08:25 PM
Hey Rich,

thanks for your congrats and the nice words, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind ... (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

Can't wait to see your progress, what's going on? (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 11/20/2014 01:54 AM
I can't wait until the day your model will be indistinguishable from that photo you just posted!  And it will be!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: SoheilEsy on 11/22/2014 04:00 AM
Speechless  :o
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 11/25/2014 12:16 PM
Hello Guys,
thank you for your kind words, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040576.gif) right now I'm hanging around a bit and had to do some other things, but it soon goes on. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

Thanks for staying tuned. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up039822.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)

Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 12/24/2014 09:17 PM
Hello all together,

before the holidays I will briefly report yet again. Since my last post of the final assembly of the ROFIs on LOX TSM some time has passed so. But this break has sometimes done very well to get some rest and to protect the eyes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

In the meantime, I was a little busy with the 3D printing , albeit only with theory. The practical application one can admire in all its many forms in Shapeways and marvel at what all there is in the space area. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

I have now started with the ROFIs on LH2 TSM, which have still missing. But honestly, you get quite out of practice in dealing with these delicate parts, and so I must only grope slowly. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

And here a few last photos before the celebration. First, I have glued the double-ROFI under the ladder on the back, but what greatly facilitated the further fittings. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/TalzHy.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/AExrkp.jpg)

Since there anything else I had to adjust the size and shape of the feed line with the bow, the paint was damaged something, so I removed them again to renew it. Here is one of several fittings then, just so provisionally with the two feed lines,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/UiJAFN.jpg)

and here with the base plate and the support. As I said, this is all getting used to again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/d4AM6w.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/6S9t0F.jpg)

And one of the two union nuts had to be replaced.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/GB6DwJ.jpg)

Meanwhile, the feed line is newly painted and can now be mounted. But that will probably only after the holidays. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)
In this sense, I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. (http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Weihnachten/x39.gif)

For your interest and helpful feedback throughout the year, I would like to again thank you heartily. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2015 09:53 AM
Hi all together,

I hope you all had a relaxing holidays and a good start into the new year. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

I have charged my battery again and will also restart. So continue with the installation of the supply lines of the ROFI on the back of LH2 TSM. The difficulty was in the line with the bow that it had to be threaded through under the ladder and between the supports and positioned behind the ROFI tube. And in this state it had to be glued at the support points without slipping. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) Then only had to be glued the little support under the bow,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043715.jpg)

so I was glad finally, when it was done. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043716.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043717.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043718.jpg)

The installation of the other supply line was fortunately a little easier because it did not have extra threaded.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043719.jpg)

Thus the two ROFIs were finally mounted on the backs of both TSM's, thank God!  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040576.gif)
 
(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043720.jpg)

And since a long time except TSMs and ROFIs nothing left be seen of the MLP, here a few pictures to remember. (https://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043721.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043722.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043723.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043724.jpg)

Although the whole procedure with the PE ladders and ROFIs was overall pretty tedious and stressful, but I can be very happy with the result.

And as you can see in the front view, missing at the LH2 TSM now only the front ROFI and the ladder, which will then make the final tomorrow. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043725.jpg)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043726.jpg)

And then we'll see. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/07/2015 10:03 AM
To quote Darth Vader:"Impressive, most impressive."

It looks exactly like photos of the real thing. 
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2015 11:12 AM
Thank you Ron for your flattering words, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif) which makes me very happy that you like it.

About curse or a blessing of this attention to detail and the related effort one can certainly argue, but like I said, I do not regret time and effort, even if I was often very close to despair.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)
Then one has to overcome his inner temptation somehow and just bite through, (http://www.smiliesuche.de/smileys/kopf-gegen-wand/banghead.gif) although this is often easier said than done ... (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: apollolanding on 01/07/2015 11:34 AM
Manfred, I've followed your build from the beginning and have to tell you that I am amazed by your talent, work ethic and creativity.  You're not just building a model; you're capturing and documenting history.  My hat goes off to all of the talented modelers we have in the NSF community!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 01/07/2015 04:37 PM
Starting to get some goose bumps....


Fantastic Work Manfred....

Dave
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/07/2015 08:49 PM
Manfred, I've followed your build from the beginning and have to tell you that I am amazed by your talent, work ethic and creativity.  You're not just building a model; you're capturing and documenting history.  My hat goes off to all of the talented modelers we have in the NSF community!

Thank you so much for your compliments. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

You have described very aptly, what I'm doing. This is also my intention to trace the history of the unique shuttle program with help of my modeling and to understand the gigantic space technology more and more. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/09/2015 09:07 PM
Thanks Dave for your kind words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Hi there,

and here are the next steps. For the ROFI on the front of the LH2 TSM I needed even this small basic plate of about 1.5 mm diameter. And that was a good opportunity, to test my recently ordered Punch & Die Set of UMM-USA (http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/product_info.php?cPath=21_145&products_id=5581&osCsid=1de4d377e13ef4a78a1a46d6f68212cb), which was still arrived in time for Christmas. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/QRlj4H.jpg)

The set includes 12 punch stamps with these diameters: 0.6, 0.8, 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 mm. And I've tried it with paper and 2 mm,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/bWFpsX.jpg)

what has worked well at first.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/7Gd3r5.jpg)

And then I tried with all diameter 0.3 mm Styrene and can only say: Absolutely perfect! (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/ypjrl6.jpg)

This set will certainly be to me later in the construction of the crawler trucks valuable assistance. 

Next, I glued the ROFI on the base plate and then on the TSM,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043825.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/dnH94r.jpg)

and then placing the ladder to try on.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/J7Yn2H.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/Nzptc2.jpg)

But for gluing of the ladder to the support brackets I need daylight, so I'll do it tomorrow.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: tea monster on 01/10/2015 04:26 PM
I opened this thread at the beginning and thought "Oh wow, a card, model, and he's added some strakes to make it 3D - that really works well." Then I kept going forward through the thread and the level of detail just kept expanding and getting more astounding every page.

Amazing work sir!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/10/2015 04:58 PM
Thanks for your nice words. If you have read through the entire report, you have shown remarkable endurance. (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)
Great that you like it. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/n060.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/15/2015 08:15 AM
Hi folks,

as time goes by, and sometimes it comes differently than you think. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

If you do not constantly stay tuned, one can here and there ever be a bit out of sight. And so I was quite surprised when I finally wanted to glue the last missing ladder on the front of the LH2 TSM that there still lacked the transition rung to the top four single rungs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/angry.gif) The must somehow have gone astray, and therefore had yet to be bent and painted a new rung. And on that occasion, I immediately painted again with the ladder.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/5pTjlQ.jpg)

After the single rung was glued, the ladder was glued on, which was a delicate matter again, as I had to dab each support bracket individually by means of acupuncture needle gently with CA in order then to glue with each rung. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/G9a3cR.jpg)

And finally, the glued joints had something to retouch. After this, the little handles were glued to the service boxes flaps,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043884.jpg)

sitting directly in front of the ladder. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gut.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/6qyzTg.jpg)

Great I thought, now it's finally done and the two TSM's that were tough, I can check off. Therefore, once again a few panoramic views to the end of this stressful chapter.
 
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/jwKvIj.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/yDnTfl.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/pn9JVW.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/qTwzAE.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/t7nIJV.jpg)

And then I wanted to finally show the ROFIs again in more detail,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/3yeTMz.jpg)

and had surprised to find that the LOX TSM just been missing these small handles for the service boxes flaps also. Since I had before my longer break actually fabricated not eight, but apparently only six handles.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)
 
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/89Wtv9.jpg)

Well, this one has gotten for his close-ups, which bring it to light. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif) Since everything search did not help, I had to scratch a few new handles. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/wzxlrq.jpg)

But now these handles are also still there, and so is now finally rest.  (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/40.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/qQFe5B.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/1uTC39.jpg)

And that's it for today, thanks for looking.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up040577.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: mike robel on 01/15/2015 10:05 AM
Magnificent.  I am running out of superlatives.  Perhaps I should save some for your later work.  Where is my thesaurus?
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/15/2015 11:29 AM
Thank you Mike for your nice compliment that gives me encouragement to keep going and persevere. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/15/2015 01:52 PM
I know, Mike, I have run out of ways to be stunned by this project!!  And it amazes me every time I click the link in my email when it has been updated!

Great Job Again, it is beautiful!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/16/2015 04:52 PM
Thank you Ron for your kind words, I'm happy when you're so excited and everything persecuting, so I want to entertain you further. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/16/2015 09:40 PM
Hi there,

after conclusion of the protracted TSM chapter I can now again turn to the topic Sound Suppression Water System (SSWS), I had to interrupt at that time because of the necessary restructuring of the SRB exhaust holes unfortunately.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Therefore, again a short review to set the mood, because I now have to completely rethink again too. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

First there is the piping system around the SRB holes, of which six branchings extend into the holes, as well as the six Rainbirds.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/913/x9te2T.jpg)
Source: NASA

This main pipe system is connected to a subsystem, which is located around the SSME exhaust hole, whereby during launch the entire MLP deck is flooded, as seen here in a test. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/YSSc9K.jpg) (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/large/04pd1064.jpg)
Source: NASA

The SSWS includes also respectively 30 Water bags, which in addition are hung from above in the SRB holes and are intended to support the sound suppression effect.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up028321.jpg)
Source: NASA

The following drawing gives an overview of the SSWS with details on the respective tube diameters,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up028322.jpg)
Source: NASA

for what I had already procured me the necessary profiles with diameters of 1 mm to 6 mm.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up028326.jpg)

Since at that time I had to widen the SRB holes from 1:160 to 1:144 the curved main lines do not fit now.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up028431.jpg)

And also the water bags are therefore too narrow for the new SRB holes and thus waste, so first of all a new template must be made. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/6q0ryP.jpg)

Therefore, it is now to go further at this point - so let's try again ! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/27/2015 03:29 PM
Hi there,

but before I start fully in the SSWS chapter again, I wanted to see how a new test with the stack and the 1:144 TSM's will look like in order to check their location next to the SSME exhaust hole. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

After my first emergency surgery to widen the SRB exhaust holes to 1:144, I had thought of not having to change the SSME hole. But then I made my decision, to build the TSM's 1:144 too and have started the tricky job with the PE ladders and ROFIs what had distracted me from the scale problems a little bit. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

Now I have made a new test with the stack and the larger TSMs (1:144) and see for yourself first, what it looks like now ...

First, the sight of the stacks on the MLP is quite impressive again, I think.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/5Fviwo.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/3NFTC0.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/x7EoXd.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/DUZJHS.jpg)

With something closer inspection you can see that the TSM's wandered slightly outwards and forwards, representing each about 4 mm.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/0hI7CD.jpg)

In the provisional arrangement I went out thereof, that should be approximately 10 mm space between the TSM hoods and the orbiter for the two T-0 umbilicals. These are the fold-out "connector plugs" for the media supply of the orbiter during the countdown to lift-off, which can be seen nicely in this top view. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/gLvH4s.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=8477&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=96PC997&sn=KSC-96PC-0997)
Source: NASA

In the rear view the displacements become even more significant.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/ikKsDk.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/k4r21g.jpg)

And here again, both views without the stack for better overview.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/w0iMkS.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/OihyB0.jpg)

And now it is clearly seen that the two TSMs are too far next to the exhaust hole, so that there would be significant problems in laying the SSWS pipes around the hole, especially in terms of optics if you look at the next picture. This would then probably have a somewhat strange running of the lateral pipes below the service flap box.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/FqGPck.jpg)
Source: NASA

And if I imagine this sight, I know that I would not like and for better or worse I will have to widen the SSME hole at about that 4 mm on both sides. This arrangement corresponds then on the width and the location of the TSM's exactly the geometry of the 1:144er hole arrangement, and that will be okay. Then the TSM's standing right next to the hole, where they belong, and with the shorter length of the hole to the front I have to live. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

So then let's go to the 2nd emergency surgery, which I hope will not be quite as cruel as the first one. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif)

And for that, please press all available thumbs! (http://img.userboard.org/images/smilies/JC_doubleup.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: saturnapollo on 01/27/2015 03:43 PM
That is looking absolutely stupendous, Manfred. Not only the meticulious build but the paintwork and weathering. Don't know how you do it or indeed have the patience!

Keep it up!

Keith
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/28/2015 02:13 PM
Thank you Keith for your nice words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)
But I do not want to decorate me with borrowed plumes. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/nono.gif)

The great surface textures was created by David Maier, for which he has used original photos for his amazing paper kit. For example, the MLP deck is identical to this photo from the rollout of Atlantis (STS-79).

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043960.jpg) (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=8477&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=96PC997&sn=KSC-96PC-0997)
Source: NASA

Most of the other tiny details I have scratch-built. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: saturnapollo on 01/28/2015 08:03 PM
Thanks for clarification, Manfred, but impressive non-the-less.

Just noticed something I hadn't noticed before that the Tail Service Masts are at a slight angle and not at 90 degrees to the exhaust aperture.

Keith
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/28/2015 08:31 PM
Hi Keith,

yep, your observation is fully correct, the two TSMs are aligned with the orbiter wings. (http://www.retriever-forum.net/images/smilies/a040.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/28/2015 09:35 PM
Hello folks,
first of all I had to cope this second low blow somehow, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043950.gif) but still I'm not knockout, but only slightly chipped ... (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043951.gif)

After my first emergency surgery on the SRB holes I was worried that it would probably run out on it, but I had supplanted these thoughts in the meantime again and again. But latest with the decision for the 1:144er TSMs that was really clear, but then I have first built the tricky TSMs and ROFIs and was therefore initially too distracted. But now the vexing dilemma of scale of the Revell kits with the following compromises has ultimately caught me up again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043952.gif)
However, long wail does not help, and therefore let's go for the second emergency surgery, I have to go through now.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up037139.jpg)
The Dremel is already snappy and ready for all infamous actions, and the surgeon has marked out the cuts already. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/fight.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043953.jpg)

Well, unfortunately that will go again right under the skin, as you can see here. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043954.jpg)

Because I need to extend the width of the exhaust hole from 58 mm to 66 mm, I might come out in the side walls, but fortunately they are made of balsa. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif) But I guess I will have to remove them completely and to install new walls. Maybe I can save at least the two side panels. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

So, I will report to you again out of the operating room.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/28/2015 11:16 PM
This makes me nervous to watch!!  Good luck!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/29/2015 11:44 AM
Thanks Ron and stay cool, because now come some crass images, which is not for faint hearted. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

Hi there,

so, here I am again and would like report to you from the place of the horrible event, and inevitably come back to me the former pictures of my first emergency surgery in my mind. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

But alarmism is not good, and so let's go straight to the point. First I tried to carefully peel off the lining of the hole, and at first also somewhat worked.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/901/HOINiC.jpg)

And then the Dremel with the circular saw blade was in action in order to perform short and painless the two longitudinal sections through the 2 mm thick hardboard on top.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/BMAEYb.jpg)

And then, but it went right to the point. In these slots I worked myself with knives and chisels piece by piece into the deep, but that has hurt in my modeler soul what can certainly be seen in the pictures. But unfortunately the lining stayed not entirely unaffected.   (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/8PG52k.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/pCjqyP.jpg)

But finally it was done yet, and as you can see, also got a lot shavings flew. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up043951.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/idtoid.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/vU241J.jpg)

(http://orbiter-forum.com/images/smilies/signs/omgsign.gif) Thus, the rough things are done first time, and I can make the new lining. I can at least still use the reinforcement rods. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 01/29/2015 01:25 PM
ouch!!!!!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/30/2015 10:18 AM
Hey Tom,

yep, that hurt, but except of the sweat on my forehead luckily "only" lifeblood is flowed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cry.gif)

So far everything is running lightly and luckily everything else is intact. The patient is still alive thanks to his/my sturdy construction, and this time not a single part is broken.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

BTW, the paper model from David Maier's Kit had not survived this brutal attack guaranteed in the face of used surgical tools. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Davp99 on 01/30/2015 04:16 PM
Just Keep Your Eye on the Prize Manfred, In the end it will be Justified I'm sure.. ;)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/30/2015 11:12 PM
Thanks Dave for your encouraging words. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/30/2015 11:18 PM
Hi there,

following the brutal demolition work can now finally start rebuilding the SSME exhaust hole. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

As already indicated, I have completely removed the remnants of the old side walls, so I needed only 2 mm balsa panels  for the new walls and corresponding squared timbers for the side columns in the front and rear walls.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044116.jpg)

First I glued the squared timbers in the front and rear walls.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044117.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/H53LMe.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/qwfD6Q.jpg)

This was followed by a last test with the angle whether the two openings in the upper deck and in the underbody sit exactly one above the other, which was so far okay. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/ptuVSt.jpg)

Thereafter, the two side walls were glued,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/ju7lv0.jpg)

and the last test has confirmed the perfect location as expected.   (http://kartonist.de/wbb2/images/smilies/icon_thumb.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/11qxiK.jpg)

For the lining of the hole I had still the original templates from the Paper Kit (1:144) in reserve, which I will use now.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/mvW1b9.jpg)

And hence the matter would be corrected already almost.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/31/2015 12:21 PM
Great news so far!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 01/31/2015 03:54 PM
Yep Ron, I am reassured, it goes forward again. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/02/2015 10:23 PM
Hi there,

and it goes on with the new lining of the SSME blast chamber, which was to be seen. In this case, it strikes the experts immediately that the template from D. Maier's kit has no step-shaped shoulder, but it is present in the original. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

First, I detached the struts and already started sanding the glue on the backs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044202.jpg)

For that I had initially used Evergreen profiles 1,0x1,0 mm. However, this thickness appears to me to be somewhat overdimensioned from today's perspective and in comparison with more recent original images, given the proportions in the hole. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Came across it during the sighting of my photo collection in preparation for the construction of the SSWS. Meanwhile, there are in particular from last shuttle missions awesome NASA panoramas with high resolution, on which one can do great detail studies.

And here is one of them, where you can also see the SSME slot very well from below. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/903/EoUVvY.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AUnderMLP100921/)

In this image I have determined the thickness of the struts using the grid distance compared to the template, which should be not 1,0 mm but only approx. 0.6 mm. Now this is not a great difference, but it does come much closer to the original and thus fits better by its proportions into the picture.

And if you look closer, you will also recognize that these are not prismatic profiles but rather thin tubes. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) Accordingly, I have placed some profiles for comparison on the template.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/jfN5J4.jpg)

In my opinion, the 0.64 mm rods would probably fit best, but it will probably be a bit more difficult to glue them clean than the square profiles, what do you think? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

And the struts have to be painted anyway new.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/03/2015 08:27 PM
Hi folks,

but I had initially especially concerned about sticking this thin profiles. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/analintruder.gif)  But a test gluing with a 0.64 mm rod by CA and acupuncture needle along a line has certainly worked, so I'll take these profiles.  Of these I also have sufficient lengths, because one needs after all approximately 1.5 m, which is hard to believe. shocked.gif

Now I just have to think about how I best can paint the strips. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif) From the airbrush gun thin things are almost blown away, and one anyway sprays more color next to it, as at the profiles. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

With the brush by hand on a pad that's for sure similar tricky and will probably not uniform. That's why I got the idea,  to stick the five profiles side by side on a frame of cardboard and then full power with the gun over it. That would actually go, I guess. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

And I then tried the same times. Here are the 0.64 mm rods,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/WU3Vcp.jpg)

and here's my brilliant strip holder. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/y9qwVj.jpg)

So the first passage with the gun is across the stage, and the holder has actually proven.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/903/PHYJqH.jpg)

That's it for today, see you soon! (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/09/2015 10:47 AM
Hello everybody,

but before I continue to do with the lining of the SSME hole, I again checked the position of the Blast Shield that is the upper flat cover around the hole, under which, in contrast to the SRB Blast Shields the water nozzles of the SSWS are around. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/VNGXAL.jpg)

In it are now the TSM's after the widening of the shaft at its final location directly next to the hole, so that I can now prepare also the respective Blast Shield. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/0V1xvd.jpg)

In this connection, but is still following new facts. In the analysis of my SSWS panoramic pictures I've even noticed some details of construction that I have been so never known and which are not included in David Maier's Paper Kit. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

But as one can see in the picture here, there are at the forward end of the SRB holes in each case inclined transitions in the Blast Shields to the significantly higher SSME Blast Shield, which should be about twice as high in my estimation. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/upJayn.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/STS134ETCtr110311/)
Source: NASA

In Paper Kit the heights of both Blast Shields were of equal size what I had previously thought as right. And this difference but one should actually already consider when looking at it exactly, right? (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

Well, that could be on the occasion also quite corrected or adapted even without major problems, although the difference with about 1 mm (1:144) is actually minimal. Nevertheless, I will think about. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

And so now get back to the lining of the SSME hole again. On closer inspection of the image below one can see the following fundamental difference between the SSWS systems of SSME and SRB exhaust holes. As briefly mentioned (red marking) under the SSME Blast Shield around water nozzles are arranged in rows, how to follow very nicely on the panoramic image. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/QXDazb.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AMLPLwrSSMEExh131031/)
Source: NASA

In contrast, the blast shields of both SRB holes around have no water nozzles but only openings for the outflow of the water ejected by the Rainbirds at the start, as one can see in the picture, while the water masses are here pumped in each case through the large outlets.
   
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/LSn3Qs.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AUnderMLP100921/)
Source: NASA

Since the water nozzles are not taken into account in the lining of the SSME shaft in Maier's kit, I've tried, if they can not be visually indicated at least, especially since they are really too tiny in my scale for scratch-building. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

To help me later gluing the hole lining something that I have this first separated,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/WB9YYs.jpg)

especially since the thin rods also have to be glued and so the individual walls are easier to handle.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/ZZln7V.jpg)

After that, I've copied the red marked nozzle row from the the upper image,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/OuujwL.jpg)

and duplicated the Nozzle 51 several times with Paint Shop Pro and arranged in a row.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/eeugD4.jpg)

Since the true to scale print of this row (2 mm), but produced only a dark stripe,  I still have regulated a bit on the sharpness as well as the contrast and brightness. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/uLnBpr.jpg)

And in this print were then quite still details to realize how you can see here.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/KbErbX.jpg)

And the tentative location of the nozzle row on the lining with a round profile and under the Blast Shield cover also shows a good color match. 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Y9wlk0.jpg)

And now it went to the substructure of the Blast Shields, which is again made of Balsa (2 mm).

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/907/wqeLKO.jpg)

As far as for now, thank you for looking.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/17/2015 11:01 PM
Hi there,

today only a short note on the current state. Due to the widening of the SSME exhaust hole I have meantime decided to take into account the different heights of the SRB and SSME Blast Shields, since the connecting dimensions anyway no longer have agreed. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As a result, I have removed the previous SRB Blast Shields again in order to install the stepwise transitions to the SSME Blast Shield, which I had already shown in this image.

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044188.jpg)
Source: NASA

That's why I have separated the template from the Paper Kit precisely at this transition at the front end of the SRB holes and made corresponding templates for the substructures. Since their size deviates anything in both length and width from the 1:144 templates I need to divide and fit the templates. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

While the two rear parts of the Blast Shield become of cardboard, about 1 mm high,

(http://imageshack.com/a/img537/7923/MrxP6D.jpg)

the connecting part of Balsa gets about twice the height and reaches behind the TSMs.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img661/4351/SlBHzA.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/1108/Mx5gl5.jpg)

And in front of the TSM's closes the front part of the Blast Shield, whose Balsa substructure I have already done so.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img673/6374/y7rr1z.jpg)

Bye for now. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/19/2015 04:40 PM
Hello Guys,

continue with the next step in which I have transcribed the templates for the substructures of the SRB Blast Shields on 1 mm cardboard and for the SSME Blast Shield on 2 mm Balsa. This produced the step-like transition at the front end of the SRB holes, which is still slanted.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/jj9xVs.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/6q9ZQ5.jpg)

Granted, the difference in height of 1 mm is relatively low, but significantly, and thus corresponds approximately to the real state. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/SDpDsm.jpg)

And the two TSMs also fit nicely between.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/5f0BcB.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/MSXv0g.jpg)

Now the casings are glued on these substructures and so wrapped.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/LzFiSb.jpg)

And to finish the top covers are glued then on the casings. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: shuttlemodeler on 02/19/2015 04:45 PM
Looking good Manfred.    I have a link to a 3d movie of the MLP it gives some good views of the blast shield decking.  ill send it to you when im home tonight
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/19/2015 05:21 PM
Hi Tom,

thanks for your offer. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

You have chosen a similar solution for your Blast Shields with further details as I have seen. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif) But this structure is for my scale of 1:144 a bit too small. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Kansan52 on 02/19/2015 06:14 PM
First time seeing this. Just amazing. Amazing skill and perserverance!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/19/2015 08:22 PM
Thanks Kansan for your nice compliments. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

BTW, at the same time I will still look after the pipes of the SSWS, which are running under the SRB Blast Shields into the SSME hole (green arrows) and into the SRB holes (blue arrows), in order to provide suitable holes for these pipes in the substructures before gluing. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/coolio.gif)

In this picture one can see the different pipes,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/PNU6aM.jpg)
Source: NASA

and next time I will show these pipes in some panoramic pictures in more detail. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/20/2015 10:41 PM
Hello everybody,

was seen in the last picture already, the SSWS consists not only of the thick 24'' pipes, which are nevertheless about 61 cm in diameter, (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif) but also from various thinner lines which are bizarrely bent and partially narrowed.

These are first these blue marked 6'' pipes ( 15 cm) which branch from the thick pipes behind the TSM's,

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044457.jpg)
Source: NASA

then pass under the Blast Shield and end in vents at the front end of SRB holes between the SRB supports.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/32nPSB.jpg)
Source: capcomespace.net

Please do not scare now about the seemingly "scruffy" state, but so the holes looked after a normal start of forever, but they were sandblasted before the next start and then freshly painted.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

And so here are the other pipe lines branching off from the thick pipes between the SRBs and also pass through under the Blast Shield forward into the SSME hole,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/903/wnloVk.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/STS134ETCtr110311/)
Source: NASA

and combine there in a central part on which a row of outflow vent nozzles is sitting.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/907/da43JU.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/Pad39AMLPLwrSSMEExh131031/)
Source: NASA

And these pipes interested now only in order to prepare the corresponding inlet and outlet openings in the raised substructure of the Blast Shields.

While the "blue" pipes have to be about 1 mm in diameter, the "green" tubes are slightly thicker with about 1.3 mm diameter. And the tiny nozzles should then be approximately 0.5 mm in diameter, which just seems to be feasible. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

As you can see in this picture, the "green" pipes directly disappear in the corners of the raised Blast Shield and run underneath forwards to the SSME hole.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/WZo3BZ.jpg) (http://nasatech.net/STS134RBtwn110311/)
Source: NASA

After I had estimated the required dimensions, I could mark the location of the openings for the pipes.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/ZBD9HT.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/WRPX2t.jpg)

As one can see, one has first to do some considerations before the right start.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/20/2015 11:35 PM
I am really learning so much about these platforms from your research!  They are so complex!  You are amazing in your dedication!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/21/2015 05:11 PM
Thanks Ron for your kind words and your continued interest. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

Yep, the same thing is happening to me. That is the charm of this creative hobby for me, learning by Real Space Modeling - Always new information, fascinating reference photos and videos with spectacular details of this ingenious space technology.

And then again the challenge to try scratch-building some of these discovered details only by means of photos. The limit is only what is feasible for the respective scale. (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

This is a great combination that motivates me every day on the new and stimulates me deeply to keep pushing on. Sometimes the detailed studies are so exciting that I almost forget about it to continue the build and more and more doing research. And these fascinating feelings I will not miss, even if everything takes longer.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/22/2015 02:38 AM
And I am having fun trying to bring to life a fictional space program based in the real world.  It is a fun hobby that has so many aspects for everyone to enjoy!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/22/2015 09:32 PM
I have been following your interesting excursion into the future for a long time and marvel at your fantastic ideas. And someday the dream will come true ... (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

I stay tuned.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/24/2015 02:23 PM
Hi friends,

as already mentioned, I had to split the coverings before sticking and to adapt to the modified dimensions of my SRB/SSME holes.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/xsEffQ.jpg)

At subsequent glueing of the substructure must make sure that the coverings sit immediately to the right place. Therefore I have drawn the contours on the backs and the rabbets easily scratched, so that the edges become  clean. Only then I glued the substructures, let it dry, and then glued the rabbets on the bottom.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/905/C3uIJG.jpg)

That was already half the battle. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044599.jpg)

And just the raised Balsa parts were wrapped for the SSME hole.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/631/sqJUXr.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/efGcGz.jpg)

The middle part between the SRB holes I have glued separately, the reason why I still show from the back. The openings for the local line with the vent nozzles, I also have broken through, as long as the marks are still visible.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/G8WNS9.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/K4LVoP.jpg)

Since on the back of the SSME Blast Shield in the middle part there are no vent nozzles, I have indicated there the open passageways.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/yfKKC7.jpg)

And thus the substructures are now completely covered,

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/JEXlUa.jpg)

 and are just waiting for the top covers.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/khQHG8.jpg)

These I have also to to split and adapt again before sticking, and before that I have to devise  a solution to the oblique transitions between the blast shields. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/gruebel.gif)

My first attempt with a handle-filed wedge of balsa was a bit of fumbling and has not convinced me. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/j86YYI.jpg)

But I have another idea. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/24/2015 04:36 PM
So, here I am again and was thinking about another solution. I think that small evergreen profiles should be better suited for the wedges. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

For this now I have selected a strip of 3.2 x 0.5 mm and  a square profile of 0.5 x 0.5 mm as a base, what exactly is the height of the transition.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/911/iH0wM7.jpg)

And on that occasion, I now wanted to try out a new adhesive recommended by a friend of mine as a secret weapon for glueing small parts, on which he swears. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

It is MEK (Methylethylketone) or also short Butanone. MEK as acetone is a good solvent for a variety of plastics, resins and varnishes. The stuff is thinner than the known Revell-adhesive and can therefore be easily applied with a brush, but beware, the brush must be made of natural hair, e.g. Red Sable, otherwise it is only to be used once and never again. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/schlaumeier.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/IZOZtW.jpg)

The advantage of this adhesive is that you only need to position the parts and the adhesive is applied with a brush stroke at the joint, which feeds into the gap. Then just hold still for a short time, and the contact is done. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

And just as easy has worked, the strip I have applied to a ruler, placed the small profiles and fixed with tweezers, and then drawn with a brush MEK at the joint along, that's it.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/ZALlRy.jpg)

And that goes in the twinkling of an eye.  (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044595.jpg)

This  secret weapon so I can only recommend it.

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 02/24/2015 05:22 PM
Nice, that is on my shopping list.
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/25/2015 07:44 PM
Hello everybody,

today I carried out a few experiments to test the feasibility of the following detailed solution.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

As shown already, there are on the back wall of the SSME hole this SSWS piping with the six vent nozzles.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/El95KF.jpg)
Source: NASA

The dimensions for this I had already estimated, after which the pipe should have about 1.3 mm in diameter and the nozzles then about 0.5 mm in diameter, which I instinctively just appeared to be feasible. And I wanted to check today.(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

And as always with such things a scale drawing is very helpful, and how you can already see that this part but is relatively small. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/QOUmso.jpg)

And these are my first two prototypes of the pipe ( 1.4 mm), which should be about 30 mm long. Since the first pattern has unfortunately yet become slightly shorter and did not fit into the openings, the second experiment was (front) then more successful. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/happy.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/mazP5M.jpg)

And as you can see here, the pipe fits quite well into the openings of the Blast Shield.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/GbEYJi.jpg)

And so now to the nozzles of 0.5 mm rod that truly are, however, some small check marks which should be only about 1.5 mm long.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) Can bend itself yet, but the separation and handling is then even more marginal.

That reminds me sticking the nozzle is problematic in terms of durability of the contact point due to the tiny cross-section, I first experimented with my dummy and carefully drilled a hole with a diameter of 0.5 mm and the nozzle being only inserted. Now this is indeed a bit difficult, but doable.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/pyRWuq.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/7vXSqI.jpg)

And this exercise should work just as well in the remaining five nozzles, I hope so. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

For comparison, I will now try another gluing with MEK and am curious as to whether or how well that will hold. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/undecided.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 02/28/2015 11:26 PM
Hi guys,

so, today I wanted to finish the reconstruction of the Blast Shields finally, for it the top covers were now still to glue to the substructures.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/up044606.jpg)

Unfortunately I could not glue them in this form, because I had modified the geometry of all three holes. So that's why just had to split as the covers for the substructures. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/35oTId.jpg)

But this was not a major problem and done by the cutter, and then the SRB Blast Shields with their inclined transitions and the beginning of the Orbiter Blast Shield were covered up to the TSM's.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/7s8pNn.jpg)

The front part of the Orbiter Blast Shield was relatively easy and just needed something be cut in front of the TSM's because the width so now is corresponding with the 1:144 dimension. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/901/W80Wyf.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/KMCB12.jpg)

And finally, the TSM's were still tentatively put.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/63KGJs.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/0KWkBG.jpg)

And so I can now continue the lining of the SSME hole, what's next turn. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 03/01/2015 12:18 AM
Beautiful!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/02/2015 03:33 PM
Thanks Ron!

Hello folks,

today is now to follow the lining of the SSME hole, and here we go to the back wall. First I glued at the top the strip with the indicated water nozzles, which I have reinforced something so that it matches as flush as possible with the lower edge of the Blast Shield coverage. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/wink.gif)

Then the round profiles (0.6 mm) were glued, first time only at the top, because the dabbing of CA with the acupuncture needle over the full length can not be done. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/qci4ge.jpg)

And then it went step by step to down, which took some time because I had to aim accurately. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/na3CFS.jpg)

But by and by I had the hang of it, and it went forward.  (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/ja.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/9LkSSk.jpg)

And so the back wall was then done ever, (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/zustimm.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/909/E4hMea.jpg)

and could be glued after a few tests into the hole. This has worked quite well so far, and also the small pipe fits perfectly into the holes provided. Only missing the six nozzles. (http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/flehan.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/Gf2tTg.jpg)

And thus, it can now proceed with the side wall on.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: Ronpur50 on 03/02/2015 03:45 PM
You are recovering nicely from the enlargement!
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/02/2015 09:55 PM
Thanks Ron for your nice words, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/bow.gif)

yep, so far everything has gone according to plan, and with the thinner round profiles now everything is still much closer to the real thing, (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/speak_cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/903/EoUVvY.jpg)
Source: NASA

and I can so far be really happy with the result. (http://www.kartonist.de/images/Smile/n060.gif)

(http://scaleworld.forenworld.net/images/smilies/hallo.gif)
Title: Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6
Post by: roma847 on 03/05/2015 12:41 PM
And with these nozzles I've done more today. First, I've still tried the blunt bonding of a thin profile (0.5 mm in diameter) with MEK, so this time without pre-drilling, but only once placed a stick and then painted with MEK. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/V3zqat.jpg)

Well, that part is first stuck and also holds a light touch from.  (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/huh.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/xofAvh.jpg)

But due to the minimal cross-section the contact of course does not hold of a burden and broke off with the first bending. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/angry.gif) Accordingly, that's no usable solution for these nozzle row, and so I will have to continue to pre drill.   (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/rolleyes.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/ekIynS.jpg)

Well, but now I need the rest of the nozzle, and for that I have ever tried some bending variants. This is possible both in the tweezers, although it is not so easy to get added at the first attempt the short arc, because there are some broken. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/shocked.gif)

That's why I afterwards used a thin brass tube as bending aid and then cut the nozzle to the required size. In this variant, there is a bit more waste, but the bending is endured over the greater length but obviously better and there have been no breakthroughs. (http://www.raumfahrer.net/forum/smf/Smileys/yabb/cool.gif)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/uNClhc.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/XIQng6.jpg)

And here are provisionally inserted into the bor