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Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles => ULA - Delta, Atlas, Vulcan => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 04/28/2009 11:54 PM

Title: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/28/2009 11:54 PM
Do we not already have a thread for this - or am I going blind?

ULA:

United Launch Alliance is happy to provide the Missile Defense Agency Space Tracking and Surveillance System (STSS) Advanced Technology Risk Reduction (STSS ATRR) mission booklet detailing the mission timeline for the launch of this satellite aboard a ULA Delta II rocket from Space Launch Complex-2 at Vandenberg AFB, Calif. ULA will perform the launch on behalf of NASA. The launch is set for May 5, 1:24 – 1:52 p.m., Pacific Daylight Time.  Remote camera set up is set for May 4, 1-3 p.m.  Please meet at the Vandenberg AFB main gate at 1 p.m.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Stephan on 04/29/2009 05:44 PM
"At the request of the Missile Defense Agency, an external TV and internet broadcast of this mission will not be provided."

http://www.ulalaunch.com/
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 04/29/2009 06:27 PM
"At the request of the Missile Defense Agency, an external TV and internet broadcast of this mission will not be provided."

http://www.ulalaunch.com/ (http://www.ulalaunch.com/)

More secretive than NRO? That's quite lame... I can understand -with a stretch of imagination- why they want to cut the webcast off once the fairing has dropped, but the whole launch? The orbital parameters are public and there are even artist impressions of the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Jim on 04/29/2009 06:48 PM
The orbital parameters are public and there are even artist impressions of the spacecraft.

What spacecraft?   There are none of the ATRR spacecraft.   There are some of the Demo spacecraft.

This spacecraft is not ATRR
http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/media/presskits/mediaGallery/stss/photos/media1_4_16376_16380.html
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Skyrocket on 04/29/2009 08:17 PM
What spacecraft?   There are none of the ATRR spacecraft.   There are some of the Demo spacecraft.

Pg. 1 and 5 of the mission overview show it - unless they're not it...

Pg. 1 is one of ther NG built STSS satellites
Pg. 5 looks like the LDCM satellite
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Jim on 04/29/2009 09:12 PM
Pg 5 looks like GLAST
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Skyrocket on 04/29/2009 09:30 PM
Pg 5 looks like GLAST
No, more like LDCM (although both are SA-200HP spacecraft)

See

LDCM(http://space.skyrocket.de/img_sat/ldcm__1.jpg)

GLAST (http://space.skyrocket.de/img_sat/glast__1.jpg)
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 04/29/2009 10:08 PM
MDA did the same for NFIRE.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: yinzer on 04/29/2009 11:02 PM
I'm thinking about going to watch this launch.  The internet seems to indicate that my best bet is probably to ride up to the top of Santa Ynez Peak, which is accessible to the public, probably above the clouds, and fairly close to the launch site.

Does anyone have any better suggestions?  Is there a nasaspaceflight.com hookup to get to a viewing location on base?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: DaveJes1979 on 04/29/2009 11:55 PM
yinzer, I highly recommend against going to Santa Ynez Peak.  I tried it for one launch, and it simply is too far away from the launch site (about 40 miles).  Unless the coast is completely socked in by fog, there is no point in watching from there.  BTW - last time I went it the road were conditions were *really* spotty - we might as well have been off-roading.

My wife and I have seen two launches now from the weather station (both Delta II launches at night), located on Corral Road.  If you can't get onto the base, this is where most of the public go to view the launch.  It is about 5.4 miles from the Delta 2 pad.  It is a tad tricky to find - you have to park alongside the road in a dirt shoulder, then walk through an unmarked dirt path through the treed area on the west side of the road.  There is a sparse concrete bleacher there, which has been more than adequate for the small crowds that gather there (or just set up a cot in the open field).  They are kind enough to set up speakers so the public can hear the mission control and countdown feed.  The location is a few hundred feet above sea level, and there are no viewing obstructions of the pad.

NOAA is reporting that the fog should be gone by 11 a.m. on Tuesday.

Yeah, I wish I had a base hookup.  Unless Chris wants to write us press accredidations!

The only other spot I know of would be the Golf Course just NW of the weather station.  It is technically closer to the pad by a bit, but I understand that the hills obstruct a direct view of the pad, and you are further north, away from the line of flight.

I am tempted to try viewing from Surf beach, almost directly south of the pad a few miles down.  But I haven't heard anything about it from others.  It would only work if there was absolutely no coastal fog and assuming the local authorities don't close it down for range safety purposes.

I've whipped up a quick map using Powerpoint and Google Earth for directions to the public viewing location near the Corral Road weather station.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 04/30/2009 03:04 AM
"At the request of the Missile Defense Agency, an external TV and internet broadcast of this mission will not be provided."

http://www.ulalaunch.com/ (http://www.ulalaunch.com/)

More secretive than NRO? That's quite lame... I can understand -with a stretch of imagination- why they want to cut the webcast off once the fairing has dropped, but the whole launch? The orbital parameters are public and there are even artist impressions of the spacecraft.

I wonder if there's a chance that the payload fairing is somehow "special" to the extent that MDA doesn't want photos.  I kinda doubt it, but we'll see.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/01/2009 02:42 AM
"At the request of the Missile Defense Agency, an external TV and internet broadcast of this mission will not be provided."

http://www.ulalaunch.com/

A real shame, considering that if both this and its sister launch are restricted from broadcast, only seven or so additional Delta II launch viewing opportunities exist before the end.

We got to see video of Iran's and North Korea's launches, after the fact.  Perhaps MDA will at least meet that standard.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/01/2009 03:13 AM

A real shame, considering that if both this and its sister launch are restricted from broadcast, only seven or so additional Delta II launch viewing opportunities exist before the end.

We got to see video of Iran's and North Korea's launches, after the fact.  Perhaps MDA will at least meet that standard.

 - Ed Kyle

What's your point, Ed?  While it certainly is nice to see the video, in reality these will look a lot like other Delta II missions.  It's not that no record of the flight will exist, just that you won't have the close up video to watch.  Neither MDA nor ULA needs to prove to you that they launched a rocket, so comparing this launch to those by Iran and NK isn't relevant.

By the way, including the 2 STSS missions, there are 14 Delta II vehicles left.  Some are unsold, but it is unlikely that they will never fly.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 05/01/2009 07:09 AM
Neither MDA nor ULA needs to prove to you that they launched a rocket, so comparing this launch to those by Iran and NK isn't relevant.

I think his point was that the USA, which prides itself on its "freedom", shouldn't appear less open in terms of information release than what it considers to be an unfree communist dictatorship.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/01/2009 01:19 PM
Really, guys.  Does video of a rocket launch constitute a freedom that must be compared to a communist dictatorship?  NK is probably still telling its people (and its leader) that the launch was completely successful.  Is that the kind of freedom you want?  There have always been reasons for classification in the free US, and I find it hard to believe that this one item is worth complaining about.  Besides, since it hasn't happened yet, who knows what will be available after the launch?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/01/2009 02:10 PM
First, I want to stand corrected about the public artist conceptions of the satellite(s?), as I was clearly confused by depictions of other sats.

However, I still think closing this launch to public eyes doesn't offer any advantages to the MDA and invalids some of the heralded speeches of freedom of information, openness, etc, so used by the US. Of course it can't be compared with NK's attitude, but restricting the information like this is not a behaviour the 'leader of the free world' should be exhibiting.

In fact, I think it'll attract more attention than in normal circumstances. How many Delta II launches go up with nothing more than a brief footnote, including defense-related payloads? By suppling a short clip of recorded footage after the launch, this puts the US in the same basket as Russia, and they're constantly accused of having a 'secretive and obscure' military program. As mentioned, even the NRO releases more information!
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/01/2009 03:29 PM
Next time Spain holds some military maneuvers, let us know how much live footage you receive.  What would you say if Hispasat asked Ariane not to broadcast a launch because something about the vehicle would give away competitive information?  Would that really be a problem for your?  Would that really be a black mark on Spain's policy of openness?

I'll restate my point.  You have been privy to a huge amount of information available live for US launches, including, as a couple of you have stated, many NRO launches.  The fact that MDA chooses to restrict live video for this launch does not significantly affect the openness of the US.  For any of us to say that it doesn't offer advantages to MDA is totally presumptive on our part.  If you believe it truly "invalidates" the US as a leader of the free world, I would say that's just a bit of exaggeration. 

As a US citizen, I have no problem with a "secretive and obscure" military program - that's one aspect that allows the US to remain a leader.  I have no problem when Russia or any other country restricts access to its military programs, including satellite launches.  It's when Russia, Iran, NK or any other country says that they had a successful launch (especially commercial) when they really didn't - and everyone knows it, that I wonder about that country's ability to lead anyone.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/01/2009 04:47 PM
Next time Spain holds some military maneuvers, let us know how much live footage you receive.  What would you say if Hispasat asked Ariane not to broadcast a launch because something about the vehicle would give away competitive information?  Would that really be a problem for your?  Would that really be a black mark on Spain's policy of openness?

This isn't a military maneuver, it's a rocket launch with an enshrouded military payload than can remain, by and large, secret. The Spanish Ministry of Defense precluding Arianespace broadcasting a launch (not for competitiveness, but for 'security' reasons, though I don't know what competitiveness they may lose because of a broadcast of a launch) would make headlines here, bear no doubt... or at least that's what I hope. I, for one, would not be comfortable with our authorities' behaviour. It would mean a black mark if the majority of similar operations had been shown, at least in part, to the public. If none are shown... well, then the whole policy would be a black mark.

Quote
I'll restate my point.  You have been privy to a huge amount of information available live for US launches, including, as a couple of you have stated, many NRO launches.  The fact that MDA chooses to restrict live video for this launch does not significantly affect the openness of the US.  For any of us to say that it doesn't offer advantages to MDA is totally presumptive on our part.  If you believe it truly "invalidates" the US as a leader of the free world, I would say that's just a bit of exaggeration. 

It's not that I'm saying the US is not open, don't get me wrong. Much the contrary: I, as a foreigner, have access to many details that in most of the rest of the world aren't even available to nationals. Just that movements like this 'secretive launch' are unnecessary (given anyone can watch the launch from a distance, and probably the rocket doesn't carry a banner with the payload's specifications) and leave an unpleasant feeling about something murky being hidden, when there really shouldn't be. It's a satellite to develop technologies against enemy missiles, so what? If it was a NK launch, I wouldn't be surprised at their oscurantism and would despise it. The problem is, it isn't them.

In my view, measures like this can make a precedent available for those people that wish they could restrict any information about defense projects for 'national security reasons'.

Simply put, I don't like giving carte blanche to the military/intelligence agencies/defense corporations just because "they're brave men who must know what they're doing". More often than not, they aren't either. Be they Russian, American, Spanish, Chinese, Korean or Tanzanian.

I know I'm not American and so, strictly speaking, have no right to complain about what they offer or restrict. Just talking as an interested observer here, and offering my comments on the matter :)
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/01/2009 05:51 PM

This isn't a military maneuver, it's a rocket launch with an enshrouded military payload than can remain, by and large, secret.

Umm was not there a launch failure in the 1980's that the shroud came off exposing for all to see the super duper secret spy payload before smashing it to bits? The one thing both the Delta II and the Titan III have in common is they have both blown a solid shortly after clearing the tower. Maybe that is the fear. It has happened, a live feed could show the whole world what is behind the curtian ... eeer shroud.

Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/01/2009 05:58 PM
ULA PAO Mike:

everything is on track for the May 5 launch of the United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket carrying the Missile Defense Agency Space Tracking and Surveillance System Advanced Technology Risk Reduction (STSS ATRR) payload.  As a reminder, the launch window is 1:24-1:52 p.m. PDT.  If we scrub a day, the launch window is the same on May 6.

 

Some important notes for media covering the launch

 

1)     Due to the classified nature of this launch, an external TV and internet broadcast will not be provided.  An audio line for media to listen to the countdown will also not be provided.

 

2)     Media remote camera set up is set for May 4.  Please arrive at the front gate of Vandenberg AFB at 1 p.m. PDT for escort to the Delta II pad.

 

3)     The meet time for media launch day viewing is May 5 at 12:30 p.m. PDT at the Vandenberg AFB front gate.

 

Post launch media releases will be sent after the mission has concluded.

 

Have a great weekend and I’m happy to address any questions I can.  The MDA or 30 SW/PA will need to address mission specific questions.

Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/01/2009 06:20 PM

Umm was not there a launch failure in the 1980's that the shroud came off exposing for all to see the super duper secret spy payload before smashing it to bits? The one thing both the Delta II and the Titan III have in common is they have both blown a solid shortly after clearing the tower. Maybe that is the fear. It has happened, a live feed could show the whole world what is behind the curtian ... eeer shroud.


Had it exposed the payload? I seem to recall there was a post not so long ago with scans of a report showing "first indication of fairing opening", but didn't see any of the open fairing. That 'first indication' was after the boosters had been split by the RSO.

In any case, nothing that can't be avoided using a slight time delay between broadcast and actual filming... SpaceX appear to handle that technique well ;)

Quote
An audio line for media to listen to the countdown will also not be provided.

Sigh...
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/01/2009 09:45 PM
ULA PAO Mike:
1)     Due to the classified nature of this launch, an external TV and internet broadcast will not be provided.  An audio line for media to listen to the countdown will also not be provided. ...

2)     Media remote camera set up is set for May 4. 

O.K.  So images of the rocket are not the issue.  The issue seems to be something related to the "live" aspect of launch coverage.  Someone paying attention with a fixed video camera augmented by a precision timepiece could probably decipher some "secrets" perhaps? ;)   

Many launches during the Cold War were kept secret, but I thought that the Cold War was over. 

If this launch isn't broadcast because it is classified, then how many more might soon be pulled into the dark?  This is a policy that, after all, hasn't been used in many years.  When you think about it, classified payloads constitute a major percentage of all U.S. launches.  This policy could end coverage of many more ULA launches, including Delta IV and Atlas V.   

There have, unfortunately, been stories of classification being used, in the past by some unscrupulous decision makers, to keep U.S. citizens, rather than some unknown foreign enemy, in the dark.  I hope, for MDA's sake, that it isn't doing anything remotely like that - because if it is the public will eventually learn the truth and MDA will suffer the consequences.  But I'm having trouble seeing any reason for this one beyond keeping it off the evening news.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Antares on 05/02/2009 03:56 AM
NASA Launch Services is the government launch team for this.  Interesting that KSC PAO is not handling the press releases.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 05/02/2009 09:26 AM
If this launch isn't broadcast because it is classified, then how many more might soon be pulled into the dark?  This is a policy that, after all, hasn't been used in many years.  When you think about it, classified payloads constitute a major percentage of all U.S. launches.  This policy could end coverage of many more ULA launches, including Delta IV and Atlas V. 

Actually, the last one was in 2007. That was an MDA payload as well.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: butters on 05/02/2009 10:30 AM
Neither the launch provider nor the payload customer have any first amendment obligations to release information to the public beyond certain disclosures required by law.

They don't have to broadcast video of the launch.  They don't have to let people take cameras onto the launch facility grounds or allow public access to the grounds at all.

However, they cannot prevent the public from recording and sharing observations of the launch using locations and equipment beyond the lawful property rights of the launch partners.

We have the right to observe any object in plain view from wherever we're permitted to be.  If they want to launch from a remote island or platform, we can observe from a boat in international waters.

But they don't have to lift a finger for our viewing pleasure.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/02/2009 01:56 PM
But they don't have to lift a finger for our viewing pleasure.

This isn't about "viewing pleasure".  We, the taxpayers, ultimately decide whether such missions are funded.  If there's not going to be an F-22, why should anyone expect that there has to be an MDA?  It is in their interest to *communicate*, and there is no better event than a launch for communicating program progress to the public. 

For a mission that likely costs many, many tens of millions of dollars at least, a 15 minute webcast shouldn't be a problem. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/02/2009 02:16 PM

This isn't about "viewing pleasure".  We, the taxpayers, ultimately decide whether such missions are funded.  If there's not going to be an F-22, why should anyone expect that there has to be an MDA?  It is in their interest to *communicate*, and there is no better event than a launch for communicating program progress to the public. 

For a mission that likely costs many, many tens of millions of dollars at least, a 15 minute webcast shouldn't be a problem. 

 - Ed Kyle

We, the taxpayers, do not decide.  Our representatives do.  And they are given a lot more information about the need for the mission.  The actual launch is almost irrelevant - certainly it must be successful, but that success does not depend upon anyone being able to watch it.  But I'd bet that if any of them cared, they'd be given access to the live launch feed.

Ed, everything in your argument except the first sentence says that it is about viewing pleasure.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/02/2009 02:54 PM

This isn't about "viewing pleasure".  We, the taxpayers, ultimately decide whether such missions are funded.  If there's not going to be an F-22, why should anyone expect that there has to be an MDA?  It is in their interest to *communicate*, and there is no better event than a launch for communicating program progress to the public. 

For a mission that likely costs many, many tens of millions of dollars at least, a 15 minute webcast shouldn't be a problem. 

 - Ed Kyle

We, the taxpayers, do not decide.  Our representatives do.  And they are given a lot more information about the need for the mission.  The actual launch is almost irrelevant - certainly it must be successful, but that success does not depend upon anyone being able to watch it.  But I'd bet that if any of them cared, they'd be given access to the live launch feed.

Ed, everything in your argument except the first sentence says that it is about viewing pleasure.

I'm sorry you see democracy that way. 

For me, democracy isn't about trusting politicians to make my decisions.  I live in Illinois! 

Illinois has one former Governor in Federal prison and another en route.  One of our current U.S. Senators wasn't elected - he was appointed by the currently indicted Governor - after he promised to raise money for the same Governor.  Our other Senator vociforously opposed the appointment (he was going to fillibuster), then strangely changed his mind and embraced the new guy (I wonder what went on in *that* meeting).  Other of our State representatives tried to buy the seat it appears, but couldn't raise enough money!  I don't trust any of these "representatives", even those not under investigation.  In Illinois, if they're not under indictment, it probably only means they have yet to be caught.

But my fellow citizens and I *will* make the final choices for these idiots, whether it be in the election booth or while serving jury duty!

It isn't about "viewing pleasure".  Not for me personally.  (I can't remember the last time I watched a Delta II webcast.)  This is about keeping the public informed about what its government is up to. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: DfwRevolution on 05/02/2009 03:14 PM
It isn't about "viewing pleasure".  Not for me personally.  (I can't remember the last time I watched a Delta II webcast.)  This is about keeping the public informed about what its government is up to.   - Ed Kyle

Then I suppose the real question is whether you believe a government is entitled to classify certain information in the interest of national security. In this situation, we know exactly what the government is "up to." They are launching a satellite which will help monitor for ballistic missile launches. What difference does it make if there is a webcast of the launch or not?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/02/2009 04:26 PM
It isn't about "viewing pleasure".  Not for me personally.  (I can't remember the last time I watched a Delta II webcast.)  This is about keeping the public informed about what its government is up to.   - Ed Kyle

Then I suppose the real question is whether you believe a government is entitled to classify certain information in the interest of national security. In this situation, we know exactly what the government is "up to." They are launching a satellite which will help monitor for ballistic missile launches. What difference does it make if there is a webcast of the launch or not?

Some things should be classified.  Others should not.  There's no reason to keep a video of a launch out of public view.

If there isn't a video feed for the media, it won't be on the evening news or on YouTube or Yahoo news, etc..  If it isn't on the news, it won't exist as far as the general public is concerned - and not just the "spectacular" launch, but the entire program. 

Does the public know that MDA's budget is nearly $10 billion per year, and has been for years, but that it has only deployed about 24 long-range missile interceptors designed to protect only against a "limited" attack from only one country (North Korea) - a country that has yet to demonstrate an ICBM capability?  Does the public understand that follow-on plans to expand missile defense to Europe have more than seriously damaged U.S. relations with Russia - a country equipped, BTW, with far more than 24 ICBMs?  Etc.?  Has the public asked if this is a worthwhile allocation of defense money when its military is losing ground in a foreign war?

I want this launch to be on the news.  I want people to ask what it is, and why, and how much it costs.  I want independent experts to be called upon to analyze it, question it, and praise or criticize it.  I want the public to be informed, to decide for itself whether this program, and others like it, are worth the money.  I don't want MDA to hide something that doesn't need to be hidden (a video of a launch), leaving natural skeptics like me to wonder what is really being hidden.

 - Ed Kyle 
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Analyst on 05/02/2009 04:32 PM
In this situation, we know exactly what the government is "up to."

Do you? This is what the government tells you, but do you really know? Probably they tell you the truth, but how are you sure? Would a webcast give you more information? Probably not. But this is not the point here. I am quite amazed by your statement. Just believing in the government doing the right things is, well, not what democracy is about.

Analyst
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/03/2009 12:56 AM
If it isn't on the news, it won't exist as far as the general public is concerned - and not just the "spectacular" launch, but the entire program. 

Does the public know that MDA's budget is nearly $10 billion per year, and has been for years, but that it has only deployed about 24 long-range missile interceptors designed to protect only against a "limited" attack from only one country (North Korea) - a country that has yet to demonstrate an ICBM capability?  Does the public understand that follow-on plans to expand missile defense to Europe have more than seriously damaged U.S. relations with Russia - a country equipped, BTW, with far more than 24 ICBMs?  Etc.?  Has the public asked if this is a worthwhile allocation of defense money when its military is losing ground in a foreign war?

I want this launch to be on the news.  I want people to ask what it is, and why, and how much it costs.  I want independent experts to be called upon to analyze it, question it, and praise or criticize it.  I want the public to be informed, to decide for itself whether this program, and others like it, are worth the money.  I don't want MDA to hide something that doesn't need to be hidden (a video of a launch), leaving natural skeptics like me to wonder what is really being hidden.

 - Ed Kyle 

If you honestly believe that news of this launch will lead the general public to ask those questions, then you and I have very different perspectives about the general public.  I've seen planetary and science missions that never showed up on CNN's web site, yet there was no public outcry about what NASA was up to.  If the general public was at all concerned about MDA, they would have asked questions two years ago when Putin started complaining about the US placing missiles and radars in Poland and the Czech Republic.  This issue came up again earlier this year when BHO made his trip to Europe.  It's been in the news multiple times, yet still no outcry.  Face it, Ed, the general public doesn't care, and news of a satellite launch isn't going to change that.  Your argument that this launch is going to change the public's mind is pretty weak.

No one here can say there's absolutely no reason for MDA to prohibit live feed of this launch, unless you know the reasons that decision was made.  While you may believe that it's unnecessary (and I am one of those people), it is not a statement of fact.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/03/2009 04:51 AM
Your argument that this launch is going to change the public's mind is pretty weak.

We'll never know, will we? 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: WHAP on 05/03/2009 06:19 AM
You're right - that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: HIPAR on 05/03/2009 12:15 PM
Reminds me of this sequence from the The Right Stuff.  From the closed caption script:

OPERATOR, I'M CALLING
LONG DISTANCE
TO LOS ANGELES.
 
WHO ARE YOU CALLING?
 
THE PRESS.
THE SOUND BARRIER'S
FINALLY BEEN BROKEN.
 
NO! NO PRESS.
 
NO WORD GOES BEYOND
THE FLIGHT LINE.
 
THIS IS BIG NEWS!
 
WE NEED COVERAGE
OF THIS!
 
SORRY. NO PRESS.
 
THOSE ARE ORDERS.
NATIONAL SECURITY.
 
BUT THE WAR'S OVER.
 
LOOK, PAL,
THEY DON'T WANT
SOMEONE TO KNOW.
 
WHO?
 
THE RUSSIANS, MAYBE.
 
THE RUSSIANS?
THEY'RE OUR ALLIES.
 
WELL, ANYWAY,
SOMEONE FIGURED
IT OUT THAT WAY,

 
AND THAT'S
THE WAY IT IS.

---  CHAS  ???
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: yinzer on 05/03/2009 10:05 PM
Your argument that this launch is going to change the public's mind is pretty weak.

We'll never know, will we? 

One might look at how many other launch webcasts have spurred public investigations into national security programs.  The answer is: none of them.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 05/04/2009 03:03 AM
Are there any media kits posted on-line?

Any images of the mission logo? Tried to do an Internet search but didn't turn any up with the search criteria I used.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: edkyle99 on 05/04/2009 03:28 AM
Your argument that this launch is going to change the public's mind is pretty weak.

We'll never know, will we? 

One might look at how many other launch webcasts have spurred public investigations into national security programs.  The answer is: none of them.

I haven't said anything about "public investigations", or even about "changing the public's mind".  I am suggesting that trying to avoid public scrutiny while using the excuse of "secret" is a bad idea.  I am also suggesting that keeping a communication channel open to the public is a better idea.

In case no one has noticed, the missile defense program has shown signs of beginning to be redirected under the new administration toward shorter range missile defense.  No howls of protest from the public, but then again, they don't even know what's going on, right?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: lmikers on 05/04/2009 04:37 AM
I think more transparancy could only be a good thing.  The Fed agencies are customers and so public servants accountable to 'us, the people'  What if they decide to install a bunch of first-strike weaponry behind the scenes citing 'secrecy', but which could provoke a nuclear war.  I think it's critical for citizens to keep tabs on this.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/04/2009 12:38 PM
Are there any media kits posted on-line?

Any images of the mission logo? Tried to do an Internet search but didn't turn any up with the search criteria I used.

No press kits that I found apart from the one already posted: http://www.ulalaunch.com/launch/STSS_ATRR/STSSATRR_MOB.PDF

WRT the mission logo, they have one in the lower part of the front cover.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/04/2009 09:59 PM
ULA PAO Mike:

everything is on track for the May 5 launch of the United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket carrying the Missile Defense Agency Space Tracking and Surveillance System Advanced Technology Risk Reduction (STSS ATRR) payload on behalf of NASA.  As a reminder, the launch window is 1:24-1:52 p.m. PDT.  If we scrub a day, the launch window is the same on May 6.

 

Some important notes for media covering the launch:

 

1)     An audio line for media to listen to the countdown will now be provided.  You can call the KSC media circuit lines at 321-867-1220/1240 at approximately 2.5 hours prior to launch to listen in.  There will not be a broadcast of the launch on TV or www.

 

2)     The meet time for media launch day viewing is May 5, 12:30 p.m. PDT at the Vandenberg AFB front gate.

 

Post launch media releases will be sent after the mission has concluded.  Spacecraft separation occurs 58 minutes after launch.

Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: jan_carlo_bascu on 05/05/2009 04:02 AM
After launch day, any posibility for launch video?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: HIPAR on 05/05/2009 03:36 PM
Here's a picture of the rocket:

http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d341/mst/01.jpg

It looks like a 'run of the mill' Delta II to me.

---  CHAS
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: flying_penguin on 05/05/2009 03:50 PM
What is the wind limit for a Delta II?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Art LeBrun on 05/05/2009 04:06 PM
Too bad - 9 strap ons and a day launch. At night the 9 are spectacular compared to the recent 4 SRB versions.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: StarbucksDiva on 05/05/2009 06:32 PM
Might have missed the answer somewhere. Is this going to be broadcasted anywhere?

nevermind I found my answer....Sowwwy
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2009 06:39 PM
Thanks for the updates Pad Rat!
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: ugordan on 05/05/2009 08:25 PM
Lift-off.

That was dramatic!  ;)
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 05/05/2009 08:29 PM
SFN reports that both sets of boosters separated nominally.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: toddbronco2 on 05/05/2009 08:42 PM
Launch visible from JPL in Pasadena
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Art LeBrun on 05/05/2009 08:46 PM
Years ago SECO meant sustainer engine cut off..........what words are used for second stage cutoff in SECO?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Art LeBrun on 05/05/2009 08:56 PM
Years ago SECO meant sustainer engine cut off..........what words are used for second stage cutoff in SECO?

Second Engine Cut Off.

Sustainer Engine Cut Off would've only applied to Atlas.

Thanks - i know it is in use today but I couldn't figure how it got into use with a separate stage.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Jim on 05/05/2009 09:01 PM
Years ago SECO meant sustainer engine cut off..........what words are used for second stage cutoff in SECO?

Second Engine Cut Off.


Sometimes there is a silent and invisible 2nd "S" in SECO as in Second Stage Engine Cut Off
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/05/2009 09:33 PM
Thank you very much for those updates, very appreciated, specially considering the lack of webcast... it was almost as having one, less the pretty pictures :)

Are the burns for payload avoidance or for deorbit (if you can say)? Usually Delta II second stages stay in orbit, right?
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: eeergo on 05/05/2009 09:40 PM
Thanks again, happy 48th anniversary!
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2009 09:56 PM
Thanks again to Pad Rat!!

Short ULA presser:

United Launch Alliance Successfully Launches Missile Defense Mission

          Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., (May 5, 2009) – A United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket, on behalf of the NASA Launch Services Program, successfully launched the Space Tracking and Surveillance System (STSS) Advanced Technology Risk Reduction (ATRR) mission for the United States Missile Defense Agency at 1:24 p.m., PDT today.  The Missile Defense Agency's STSS Advanced Technology Risk Reduction satellite serves as a technology pathfinder for the STSS mission - a space-based sensor component of the layered Ballistic Missile Defense System.

 “Congratulations to our Missile Defense Agency and NASA customers for a tremendous start to this critically important national defense mission,” said Jim Sponnick, ULA vice president, Delta Product Line.  “Today’s STSS ATRR launch represents another important chapter in the Delta II’s successful history of supporting both DOD and NASA missions. ULA looks forward to launching the STSS Demo mission aboard another Delta II launch vehicle from the east coast later this year.”

Blasting off from Space Launch Complex 2, the ULA Delta II 7920-10c configuration vehicle featured a ULA first stage booster powered by a Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne RS-27A main engine and nine Alliant Techsystems strap-on solid rocket boosters. An Aerojet AJ10-118K engine powered the second stage. The payload was encased by a 10-foot-diameter composite payload fairing. ULA technicians, engineers, and management worked for more than two years to prepare the vehicle for the STSS ATRR mission.

ULA’s next launch is the NASA Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter mission set to launch June 2 aboard a ULA Atlas V rocket from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral AFS, Florida. 

Formed in 2006, ULA combines the successful Atlas and Delta expendable launch vehicle programs offering cost-effective and reliable launch services to U.S. government customers, including the Department of Defense, NASA, the National Reconnaissance Office and other commercial organizations. 

Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 05/05/2009 10:05 PM
Does anyone know what USA designation (if any) is being assigned to the satellite?

205 is the next one in sequence, but they don't always go in sequence, and technology satellites don't always receive them.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2009 11:04 PM
Launch photos:

A United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket blasts off from Space Launch Complex-2 launch pad at Vandenberg AFB, Calif., at 1:24 p.m. PDT.  The Delta II successfully carried the Missile Defense Agency's Space Tracking and Surveillance System (STSS)Advanced Technology Risk Reduction(ATRR)payload into orbit. Photo by Carleton Bailie, United Launch Alliance.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: jimvela on 05/05/2009 11:12 PM
Typical Delta II launch.  LV drops you off in orbit, away you go...

We'll miss these when they're gone.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: HIPAR on 05/06/2009 02:14 PM
Nice launch photos:

http://spaceflightnow.com/delta/d341/launch/

That place looks primitive in comparison to the cape.

---  CHAS 
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/06/2009 02:35 PM

That place looks primitive in comparison to the cape.


All how he setup the camera and the weeds in the foreground. I like the artistic touch. Very nice :)

I'm sure there are spots (if allowed to set a camera there) that would offer similar views... A Delta II rising above the sand dunes, launching through an orange tree stand, ect. The hat trick would be launching through the surf...
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: DaveJes1979 on 05/06/2009 04:52 PM
From the public viewing area near the Corral Rd weather station.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Ford Mustang on 05/06/2009 06:52 PM
RELEASE: 24-09

DELTA II LAUNCH FOR MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY SUCCESSFUL

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- A Delta II rocket managed by
NASA's Launch Services Program lifted off from Vandenberg Air Force
Base, Calif., Tuesday with a spacecraft for the United States Missile
Defense Agency. The spacecraft is called the Space Tracking and
Surveillance System Advanced Technology Risk Reduction mission, or
STSS-ATRR. Liftoff from NASA's Space Launch Complex 2 occurred at
1:24 p.m. PDT.

The launch vehicle was a United Launch Alliance Delta II 7920-10c.
Spacecraft separation occurred approximately one hour after liftoff.

"With confirmation of the payload's delivery into the correct orbit,
the launch is a success," said Chuck Dovale, launch director for the
NASA's Launch Services Program.

NASA also will manage the launch of another mission for the Missile
Defense Agency aboard a Delta II rocket this summer from Cape
Canaveral Air Force Station.

For information about the Missile Defense Agency, visit:

http://www.mda.mil/

For more information about NASA missions and programs, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: blackbeast on 05/10/2009 06:02 AM
Hello everyone...

My name is Stef, from Geneva, Switzerland, I will be in Florida from the 30 of July until the 6 or 14 of August and I like to see a rocket launch and of course I hope i will see the shuttle lift off in the beginnig of August, but I have some  question about the rocket launch's date.
I found a many date for different website :
on nasa website I saw :
Date: July 29
Mission: STSS Demonstrators Program - Missile Defense Agency

On KSC website I saw :

Atlas 5 • AEHF 1
June 30

The United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket will launch the first Advanced Extremely High Frequency (AEHF) satellite, the AEHF 1. Read more about this event.


and also that date :
STSS Demonstrators Program • United Launch Alliance Delta II
July 29


and on your forum some other date... now do you know the real date...

thanks for your help
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: William Graham on 05/10/2009 09:15 AM
KSC website is always out of date.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Jim on 05/10/2009 01:05 PM
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html

This is better
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Phillip Clark on 05/10/2009 04:54 PM
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html

This is better

I toally disagree.   I prefer to use the data on this forum!   Spaceflight Now will miss launches in its so-called "complete" list of launches (check it Jim!) and also for forthcoming launches it regularly omits Chinese and Russian launches which are known about well in advance on here.   It is a highly unreliable site.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: Jim on 05/10/2009 05:26 PM
Near term US launches Spaceflightnow is accurate.
Title: Re: Delta II - STSS ATRR - May 5
Post by: blackbeast on 05/11/2009 08:27 AM
thanks for all your answere...