New news.... Sample return!http://www.space.com/24984-spacex-mars-mission-red-dragon.html
Quote from: AncientU on 03/08/2014 02:11 pmNew news.... Sample return!http://www.space.com/24984-spacex-mars-mission-red-dragon.htmlInteresting, this study says Red Dragon can deliver 2 tons to Mars, the previous study for the drill mission said 1 ton IIRC. I wonder what has changed?
... most scientists regard a sample-return trip as a "Holy Grail" mission ...
The referenced story says:Quote... most scientists regard a sample-return trip as a "Holy Grail" mission ...I guess different people have different sized holy grails... The space community has gotten so used to thinking small it's depressing.
Quote from: meekGee on 03/08/2014 09:26 pmThe referenced story says:Quote... most scientists regard a sample-return trip as a "Holy Grail" mission ...I guess different people have different sized holy grails... The space community has gotten so used to thinking small it's depressing.It's a priority in the decadal study for planetary science...the space science community has very wisely gotten used to thinking about what is possible under the budget they've been given.
I'm surprised that a second FH is seen as more cost effective than designing a better sealed sample return container.Does the incoming sample container aero capture into orbit in this proposal? All seems a bit wasteful, IMHO. Plus you have the risk of the 'contaminated' returning spacecraft hitting Earth by accident anyway.
Quote from: MikeAtkinson on 03/08/2014 08:49 pmQuote from: AncientU on 03/08/2014 02:11 pmNew news.... Sample return!http://www.space.com/24984-spacex-mars-mission-red-dragon.htmlInteresting, this study says Red Dragon can deliver 2 tons to Mars, the previous study for the drill mission said 1 ton IIRC. I wonder what has changed?All I see is an article written what study are you referring to? Link please.
Quote from: Kaputnik on 03/09/2014 09:26 amI'm surprised that a second FH is seen as more cost effective than designing a better sealed sample return container.Does the incoming sample container aero capture into orbit in this proposal? All seems a bit wasteful, IMHO. Plus you have the risk of the 'contaminated' returning spacecraft hitting Earth by accident anyway.By 2022 we should know if reusability of FH is practical and brings the hoped for savings. if it does, then I could see this being a good tradeoff. It would change the ascent vehicle specs quite dramatically, principally allowing a much larger mass to be returned:+ Because no Earth TPS is needed (perhaps not much of an aeroshell at all). Also no seal/protection hardware.+ MAV is less complex because no precise Earth entry navigation is needed if it's being picked up by a Dragon later.+ Perhaps less maneuvering fuel, and lower power requirements (mass) if it's passive after the Earthwards burn.In terms of overall mission risks it seems a wash.+ It's 2x the launches. If the return mission fails at some level, no samples are returned.+ The return Dragon mission will have the means to capture a sample from a range of trajectories, some off-nominal.+ It can spend a lot of mass on the planetary protection hardware, adding more confidence.But historically sample return missions have been said to be worthwhile with minuscule samples, so I'm not how great the benefit is in terms of scientific payoff.
Quote from: AncientU on 03/08/2014 02:11 pmNew news.... Sample return!http://www.space.com/24984-spacex-mars-mission-red-dragon.htmlThis was the presentation description on the IEEE website"Mars Sample Return Using Commercial Capabilities: Propulsive Entry, Descent, and Landing""Mars Sample Return (MSR) is the highest priority science mission for the next decade as recommended by the recent Decadal Survey of Planetary Science. We report on the Entry Descent and Landing technique used to support an MSR mission using a Red Dragon capsule. The Red Dragon Mars configuration uses bank angle control and supersonic retro-propulsion, with no required parachute system, to perform Entry, Descent, and Landing (EDL) maneuvers. The EDL landed mass performance envelope covers a range of entry masses, landing altitudes, and minimum and maximum atmosphere density."
2.0612 Mars Sample Return Using Commercial Capabilities: Mission Architecture OverviewPaper Details :SCHEDULED ON:Wednesday Morning, March 05 @ 11:00, in GallatinAUTHOR(S):Andrew GonzalesSYNOPSIS:Mars Sample Return (MSR) is the highest priority science mission for the next decade as recommended by the recent Decadal Survey of Planetary Science. We report the feasibility of a complete and closed MSR mission design using A Falcon Heavy, a Red Dragon capsule, a Mars Ascent Vehicle, an Earth Return Vehicle, and a retrieval mission. The mission can start in any one of three Earth to Mars launch opportunities, beginning in 2022:A direct to Earth strategy is enabled by the Red Dragon’s landing capability and is used as opposed to a rendezvous and sample transfer in Mars orbit. The objective of the approach was to use emerging commercial capabilities to reduce the number of mission systems, with the goal of reducing mission cost.