Author Topic: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)  (Read 606663 times)

Online abaddon

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1200 on: 07/23/2014 02:15 pm »
I think there are some folks missing that this is the Air Force looking into these incidents.  The Congressional members involved want more details but it seems that the incidents are being investigated by the AF as part of the certification exercise.
Quote
The Air Force is examining several anomalies that occurred during Space Exploration Technologies Corp.’s three civilian space flights as part of its review of billionaire Elon Musk’s quest to launch military satellites.

While none of the irregularities caused the missions to fail, the Air Force is reviewing corrective actions as it weighs certification of SpaceX. Musk’s company wants a piece of a $67.6 billion Pentagon program for satellite launches, a market held by a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) and Boeing Co. (BA), the government’s top two contractors.

There's nothing here to indicate that the Congressional members are the source of the investigation, unless I am missing something.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 02:16 pm by abaddon »

Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1201 on: 07/23/2014 03:32 pm »
I think there are some folks missing that this is the Air Force looking into these incidents.  The Congressional members involved want more details but it seems that the incidents are being investigated by the AF as part of the certification exercise.
Quote
The Air Force is examining several anomalies that occurred during Space Exploration Technologies Corp.’s three civilian space flights as part of its review of billionaire Elon Musk’s quest to launch military satellites.

While none of the irregularities caused the missions to fail, the Air Force is reviewing corrective actions as it weighs certification of SpaceX. Musk’s company wants a piece of a $67.6 billion Pentagon program for satellite launches, a market held by a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) and Boeing Co. (BA), the government’s top two contractors.

There's nothing here to indicate that the Congressional members are the source of the investigation, unless I am missing something.

The most likely source is ULA sending their notes, and talking points,  to relevant Senators/Congresspeople, in  ULA states. It is basically to discredit SpaceX's previous launches and stall certifications.
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Online abaddon

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1202 on: 07/23/2014 04:04 pm »
The most likely source is ULA sending their notes, and talking points,  to relevant Senators/Congresspeople, in  ULA states. It is basically to discredit SpaceX's previous launches and stall certifications.
I'm not sure what part of this is unclear.  There is nothing here to suggest the source of investigation of these anomalies does not come from the Air Force certification process.

Sure, the Congressfolk asking for "more transparency" have an agenda, that's obvious (and hardly unusual; John McCain asking for more information on ULA price and cost is agenda-driven as well).  To suggest they (or ULA) are somehow involved in exposing the Air Force to these anomalies is not backed up by any evidence that I have seen.

Happily it seems the anomalies in question are not show-stoppers by any means and it seems like SpaceX and the Air Force are figuring out how to address them to their mutual satisfaction, so this posturing by the Congressfolk in question doesn't really seem like a big deal to me.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2014 04:04 pm by abaddon »

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1203 on: 07/24/2014 04:37 pm »
Google Earth/Maps has newer imagery of LC-40, dated Feb 2014. Shows the new erector horizontal at the launch mount:

Offline Jim

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1204 on: 07/24/2014 04:42 pm »
Didn't know the launch mount and erector mast can be 180 degrees from each other.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1205 on: 07/24/2014 05:34 pm »
Didn't know the launch mount and erector mast can be 180 degrees from each other.

I seem to recall a similar picture of the launch mount and erector mast at VAFB after the Cassiope launch.


Offline Lars_J

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1206 on: 07/24/2014 05:58 pm »
Didn't know the launch mount and erector mast can be 180 degrees from each other.

I seem to recall a similar picture of the launch mount and erector mast at VAFB after the Cassiope launch.

This one?

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1207 on: 07/24/2014 06:34 pm »
If they recover an intact stage, insight on any anomalies and/or refinements can prove cause.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1208 on: 07/24/2014 11:16 pm »
Didn't know the launch mount and erector mast can be 180 degrees from each other.

I seem to recall a similar picture of the launch mount and erector mast at VAFB after the Cassiope launch.

This one?
Yes, that is one the pictures that I recalled.

Offline oiorionsbelt

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1209 on: 07/26/2014 09:41 pm »
Couldn't help but notice how Chris's latest article on the Delta IV launch delay sounds just like SpaceX's.

Quote
"United Launch Alliance’s Delta IV rocket scrubbed a third attempt to deploy a pair of space surveillance satellites and a technology demonstrator for the US Air Force on Friday. With the initial scrubbed via an issue with the ground support equipment environmental control system, the second and third attempts failed to avoid very poor weather over Cape Canaveral. A fourth attempt will take place on Saturday."

Just swap the rocket, payload and customer names and this could be the Orbcom OG2 mission. :)


Edit: added quote tags
« Last Edit: 07/26/2014 10:41 pm by oiorionsbelt »

Offline Lar

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1210 on: 07/26/2014 10:17 pm »
Let's confine Pad and violas to party threads[1], shall we?

Trimmed[2].

1- Which this isn't.
2 - I laughed. But I trimmed anyway.
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Offline mme

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1211 on: 07/26/2014 10:18 pm »
Couldn't help but notice how Chris's latest article on the Delta IV launch delay sounds just like SpaceX's.

"United Launch Alliance’s Delta IV rocket scrubbed a third attempt to deploy a pair of space surveillance satellites and a technology demonstrator for the US Air Force on Friday. With the initial scrubbed via an issue with the ground support equipment environmental control system, the second and third attempts failed to avoid very poor weather over Cape Canaveral. A fourth attempt will take place on Saturday."

Just swap the rocket, payload and customer names and this could be the Orbcom OG2 mission. :)
I'm a fan of SpaceX and what they are trying to accomplish.   Many of the OG2 delays were clearly out of SpaceX's hands (weather, range, payload anomaly - IIRC.)  But SpaceX did have at least on major issue with the rocket as well as well as a minor issue or two that some people seemed to think they should have ignored. [1]  So ULA would need at least one rocket issue to catch up (maybe two, I'm unclear.)

But I concede that not even the "old pros" launch every rocket on time and there is some comfort in that.  What I mostly take comfort in is that ultimately OG2 was successful and that no doubt many lessons were learned and with some luck I might get to watch two SpaceX launches in August. (A guy can dream.)

[1] I don't hold that opinion, I'm all for being conservative with the actual launch decision.
« Last Edit: 07/29/2014 08:30 pm by mme »
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Offline yg1968

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1212 on: 07/29/2014 08:19 pm »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1213 on: 07/29/2014 10:32 pm »
Moved from AsiaSat-8 updates thread:

No, SpaceX only uses one fairing size. This will be the 5th time it is used.

I might be wrong but I read somewhere on this site that there are two or more length options although only one diameter (5.2m, IIRC).
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1214 on: 07/29/2014 10:51 pm »
Moved from AsiaSat-8 updates thread:

No, SpaceX only uses one fairing size. This will be the 5th time it is used.

I might be wrong but I read somewhere on this site that there are two or more length options although only one diameter (5.2m, IIRC).

Please cite some sources then, because SpaceX went through a lot of testing for this fairing configuration.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1215 on: 07/29/2014 11:16 pm »
Apparently a longer FH fairing was proposed by Bigelow in their GATE2 report for launching BA-330, and with the 2012 cooperation agreement between Bigelow and SpaceX....

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30850.msg1192430#msg1192430
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Offline meekGee

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1216 on: 08/06/2014 12:17 am »
With the recent video Juvertson showed at the SmallSat conference, I want to note the almost unprecedented success of the R&D side of SpaceX's effort.

All GH1 flights were successful.
All GH2 flights were successful.
All high-margin F9R reentries were successful
Low-margin F9R reentries (SES, AsiaSat-8) are at least rumored to have been successful.
The only "failures" were F9Rs not managing to walk on water, but all of those were well within the GH1 experiment envelope.

That's actually quite astounding, and gets lost in the noise of "but what about flight rates and launch delays".
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Offline swervin

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1217 on: 08/06/2014 12:36 am »
Interesting article yesterday: ILS is reducing workforce up to 25%.

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41480struggling-ils-shedding-25-percent-of-staff

"The market’s move to lighter spacecraft has benefited Space Exploration Technologies Corp. of Hawthorne, California, whose Falcon 9 rocket has accumulated commercial orders... ." -- but lets be honest, this is just one of a couple of reasons, as cited in the article.

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Offline Mader Levap

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1218 on: 08/06/2014 11:28 am »
That's actually quite astounding, and gets lost in the noise of "but what about flight rates and launch delays".
Yes, it gets lost in noise, because actually launching payloads is more important for customer. In this business, low prices is "nice to have".
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Offline meekGee

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon Discussion (Thread 10)
« Reply #1219 on: 08/06/2014 01:02 pm »
That's actually quite astounding, and gets lost in the noise of "but what about flight rates and launch delays".
Yes, it gets lost in noise, because actually launching payloads is more important for customer. In this business, low prices is "nice to have".
I am still amazed that people forget, but SpaceX's goal was never to become another satellite trucker.

Satellite trucking is just a means to an end, and as long as their financing is pk, launch delays have zero impact on their goal. The delays will eventually go away, but who cares when, as long as they are surviving.

Also regarding "business", it appears customers are very enthusiastic about the R&D.  They understand that emphasizing long term goals such as reuse is not "anti-business", but actually an investment in everyone's future.
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