Even if a human is driving a bulldozer, or operating a crane, that human will be sitting in the Mars Hab (or on Phobos). There will be a need for some virtual reality controlled robots, which can assemble a steel frame and tighten the screws. Humans would only be on the surface to where extreme dexterity is required. Even there, a tele-operated robot could come close to a space suited hand.If a robot fails, another robot goes out and gets it, and brings it back to the hanger, where the human mechanic repairs it. The required robots will probably be developed out of US DoD Exo-skeleton work, rather than advances in AI. There's a nice short story by Mike Combs, envisioning tele-operated humanoid exo-skeletons doing all the work on the moon:http://www.nss.org/settlement/MikeCombs/tnbttbt.htm
Quote from: sghill on 01/26/2016 02:58 pmQuote from: sanman on 01/26/2016 02:30 pmYeah, I was thinking about that - there's going to be a lot of robotics on Mars. It will be robots doing the bulk of the labor to perform ISRU, and even to build more infrastructure for the colony. Humans would be most useful in maintaining and repairing the robots from the safe indoors, and in troubleshooting them, or giving close supervision to them as they perform their tasks and operations. And of course maintaining the communications that connects to the robotics.So you're going to need a lot of electromechanically-inclined technicians supporting robotics on Mars. Robots will be the backbone, and humans will support that backbone.I'd even think that the hab structures should be designed around giving best ingress/egress access for the robots to be repaired and maintained by the humans. I'm imagining large garages with many bays to allow servicing of these mobile robotic platforms.That's an interesting concept, but I don't think Robots are far enough along to the point of a human not being able to "out-explore" one by donning a suit and going out for the same EVA, and be relegated instead to maintenance duty on one.Robots are great when a task is mind-numbingly repetitive or takes so long that human frailties get in the way.Even if a human is driving a bulldozer, or operating a crane, that human will be sitting in the Mars Hab (or on Phobos). There will be a need for some virtual reality controlled robots, which can assemble a steel frame and tighten the screws. Humans would only be on the surface to where extreme dexterity is required. Even there, a tele-operated robot could come close to a space suited hand.If a robot fails, another robot goes out and gets it, and brings it back to the hanger, where the human mechanic repairs it. The required robots will probably be developed out of US DoD Exo-skeleton work, rather than advances in AI. There's a nice short story by Mike Combs, envisioning tele-operated humanoid exo-skeletons doing all the work on the moon:http://www.nss.org/settlement/MikeCombs/tnbttbt.htm
Quote from: sanman on 01/26/2016 02:30 pmYeah, I was thinking about that - there's going to be a lot of robotics on Mars. It will be robots doing the bulk of the labor to perform ISRU, and even to build more infrastructure for the colony. Humans would be most useful in maintaining and repairing the robots from the safe indoors, and in troubleshooting them, or giving close supervision to them as they perform their tasks and operations. And of course maintaining the communications that connects to the robotics.So you're going to need a lot of electromechanically-inclined technicians supporting robotics on Mars. Robots will be the backbone, and humans will support that backbone.I'd even think that the hab structures should be designed around giving best ingress/egress access for the robots to be repaired and maintained by the humans. I'm imagining large garages with many bays to allow servicing of these mobile robotic platforms.That's an interesting concept, but I don't think Robots are far enough along to the point of a human not being able to "out-explore" one by donning a suit and going out for the same EVA, and be relegated instead to maintenance duty on one.Robots are great when a task is mind-numbingly repetitive or takes so long that human frailties get in the way.
Yeah, I was thinking about that - there's going to be a lot of robotics on Mars. It will be robots doing the bulk of the labor to perform ISRU, and even to build more infrastructure for the colony. Humans would be most useful in maintaining and repairing the robots from the safe indoors, and in troubleshooting them, or giving close supervision to them as they perform their tasks and operations. And of course maintaining the communications that connects to the robotics.So you're going to need a lot of electromechanically-inclined technicians supporting robotics on Mars. Robots will be the backbone, and humans will support that backbone.I'd even think that the hab structures should be designed around giving best ingress/egress access for the robots to be repaired and maintained by the humans. I'm imagining large garages with many bays to allow servicing of these mobile robotic platforms.
@alexterrell:Why would any human need to go to the surface before the teleoperated robots have set up a decent base for usage?Maybe it's better to have a rather large and useful space station in the martian orbit, teleoperating robots on the surface, and when the initial surface station is completed, and the ISRU-system have produced enough fuel, the first humans can safely land on mars.The only disadvantage would be, that there might be no one around who is capable of repairing a malfunctioning robot, unless that can be by teleoperation too.This would alter the initial required skillset to "operate a spacestation" and we know how to do that, and "steer robots with a certain time-delay - 50-250ms".
Some people say that the Martian moon Phobos would be a great base - just drill into it - that way you're protected from space radiation by being burrowed into the moon.
Quote from: Hotblack Desiato on 01/27/2016 10:18 pm@alexterrell:Why would any human need to go to the surface before the teleoperated robots have set up a decent base for usage?Maybe it's better to have a rather large and useful space station in the martian orbit, teleoperating robots on the surface, and when the initial surface station is completed, and the ISRU-system have produced enough fuel, the first humans can safely land on mars.The only disadvantage would be, that there might be no one around who is capable of repairing a malfunctioning robot, unless that can be by teleoperation too.This would alter the initial required skillset to "operate a spacestation" and we know how to do that, and "steer robots with a certain time-delay - 50-250ms".Some people say that the Martian moon Phobos would be a great base - just drill into it - that way you're protected from space radiation by being burrowed into the moon.
Quote from: sanman on 01/28/2016 01:10 amSome people say that the Martian moon Phobos would be a great base - just drill into it - that way you're protected from space radiation by being burrowed into the moon.Phobos would solve the radiation problem during the stay. It would still have people in microgravity for a very long time. It would be an option if you don't have the means to land and return them. But if you have a system with the capabilities of MCT landing people on Mars is the better option by far, except for planetary protection blocking it. And in that case you cannot start a major project on the surface at all. Not even a Curiosity sized rover can be effectively sterile, much less hundreds of tons of equipment.
article on "derstandard"
Great. Gun slingers on Mars...
(Do astronauts on ISS get hair cuts, or do they come back looking like they've been to the 1960s?)
Another though on skills sets. Everyone will need several skills.How do you convince Professor / Doctor Monster Ego, that his fourth job is "Hair Stylist", and his third job is "chief toilet un-blocker".Probably a willingness to do dirty, menial and boring tasks is required.(Do astronauts on ISS get hair cuts, or do they come back looking like they've been to the 1960s?)
How do you convince Professor / Doctor Monster Ego, that his fourth job is "Hair Stylist", and his third job is "chief toilet un-blocker".
Quote from: alexterrell on 01/29/2016 05:36 pmHow do you convince Professor / Doctor Monster Ego, that his fourth job is "Hair Stylist", and his third job is "chief toilet un-blocker".Having a monster ego would be a disqualifying characteristic for going at all on the early trips, regardless of your other "skills". Just like being 7 feet tall or clinically obese.
Speaking of that, law enforcement will be needed.
There's a nice short story by Mike Combs, envisioning tele-operated humanoid exo-skeletons doing all the work on the moon:http://www.nss.org/settlement/MikeCombs/tnbttbt.htm
At McMurdo there's a deputised US Marshal: http://www.usmarshals.gov/history/antarctica/index.html