Author Topic: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?  (Read 44432 times)

Offline Blackstar

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The last NASA Gemini was assembled in mid-1966.

The MOL program was not canceled until mid-1969.

Presumably, McDonnell was building the Gemini-B for the MOL program in the interim. They should have been able to produce several of them between 1966 and 1969.

Is there any data about how many were built and what happened to them?

Offline John Duncan

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You'd think that info would have been declassified by now.  I can only think of one capsule in existance.


Offline brihath

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I don't know if any were actually built.  I believe the one that flew unmanned on a Titan III was the Gemini 2 capsule refurbished with the heat shield hatch.

Offline kevin-rf

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Then why did they re-fly Gemini-2 as the MOL suborbital test vehicle? Was it because it had been built to do suborbital test flights?

Though, the flight was shortly after the last NASA capsule was produced.
« Last Edit: 09/27/2011 04:14 pm by kevin-rf »
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Offline Blackstar

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I know that substantial MOL hardware was produced (I have pictures), and we know that they produced the mirrors for the camera. I find it hard to believe that McDonnell shut down the production line on the Gemini for three years and did nothing until the program was canceled.

Offline JosephB

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Probably "old stuff" to a lot of you but here is a neat link on Gemini:
http://historicspacecraft.com/Gemini_Capsules.html

Offline simonbp

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Last I saw (several years ago), the museum in Huntsville had a Gemini-B spacecraft adapter/retro package in storage. I don't know if it's still there or if more exist.

Offline Danderman

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One possibility is that the MOL program utilized flight spares made for Gemini, but never got very far in modifying that hardware. That implies that there were Gemini flight spares.


Offline Proponent

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My recollection (FWIW -- unfortunately, I can't find any docs to back this up) is that just 13 Gemini spacecraft were manufactured for the Gemini program per se, one of them specifically being a ground-test article.  Some early flight schedules allowed for up to 15 missions to be flown if needed, but the spacecraft for the additional three missions would have been refurbished ones, not new ones.

Offline Archibald

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http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=11841.msg243624#msg243624

 ;)

Quote
I find it hard to believe that McDonnell shut down the production line on the Gemini for three years and did nothing until the program was canceled.


It is the very same problem discussed at length when restarting Saturn V or F1 production line. Problem is not with the blueprints, it is the workforce and the associate knowledge in their brains and hands. That fade and get lost very quickly once the production line closed.
So it is better keeping the line open between 1966 (last NASA flight) and 1970 or so (first MOL flight).
« Last Edit: 09/28/2011 06:22 am by Archibald »
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Offline dbaker

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #10 on: 09/28/2011 03:30 pm »
Bear in mind the time gap was minimal. In April 1966 McDonnell got a $2m contract from AFSC to work on the Gemini B concept. S/c 2 became 2R for the unmanned test launch but s/c 3 became MOL Thermal Test Unit 3A (TTU-3A), which originally had been STA-1 before flight. In 1967 s/c 6 was given to the Air Force for astronaut tests and s/c 9 and s/c 10 were handed over for pad abort and Titan III-M tests. In spring 1967 the Air Force awarded a $180m contract to McDonnell for manufacture of Gemini B - very different to the NASA Gemini - and hardware began to grow at St Louis. But major funding cutbacks pushed the first flight back to 1972 and MOL was cancelled 20 months after McDonnell began work on Gemini B hardware, eventually using that as a basis for Big G, proposed to NASA for AAP.

Offline RyanC

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #11 on: 09/29/2011 02:39 am »
At least one MOL capsule was built I believe.

There's a BLUE GEMINI capsule on display at the US Air Force Museum with the heat shield hatch and US AIR FORCE markings.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2011 02:39 am by RyanCrierie »

Offline dbaker

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #12 on: 09/29/2011 08:42 am »
Just a gentle reminder folks, there were four 'classes' of that two-man spacecraft and reference to type can get muddy: NASA Gemini (as flown manned), Blue Gemini (USAF flown independently), Gemini B (for MOL) and Big-G (for blue-sky apps, never flown).

Offline Jim

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #13 on: 10/03/2011 02:27 pm »

Is there any data about how many were built and what happened to them?

You, of all people should know the answer.  They are in your favorite government warehouse.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #14 on: 10/03/2011 04:26 pm »

Is there any data about how many were built and what happened to them?

You, of all people should know the answer.  They are in your favorite government warehouse.

Yeah, but years of bashing my head against the wall dealing with Washington bureaucracy, not to mention years of bashing my head against my desk reading NSF, has resulted in serious brain damage, and I've forgotten most of what I once knew. Or at least I think I have forgotten it. Or something.

Where am I?

Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #15 on: 10/03/2011 04:28 pm »
They are in your favorite government warehouse.

The one where they keep the Ark of the Covenant?  ;)
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #16 on: 10/03/2011 05:18 pm »
They are in your favorite government warehouse.

The one where they keep the Ark of the Covenant?  ;)

It think it is code for Jim has all of them secretly stashed in his attic, and needs someone to do an inventory ;)
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Offline JosephB

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #17 on: 10/03/2011 06:21 pm »

Is there any data about how many were built and what happened to them?

You, of all people should know the answer.  They are in your favorite government warehouse.

Yeah, but years of bashing my head against the wall dealing with Washington bureaucracy, not to mention years of bashing my head against my desk reading NSF...

Wait till NasaWatch/SpaceRef get their forums going.
Same posters, twice the fun.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #18 on: 10/03/2011 07:29 pm »

Is there any data about how many were built and what happened to them?

You, of all people should know the answer.  They are in your favorite government warehouse.

Yeah, but years of bashing my head against the wall dealing with Washington bureaucracy, not to mention years of bashing my head against my desk reading NSF...

Wait till NasaWatch/SpaceRef get their forums going.
Same posters, twice the fun.

A mod generally sets the tone of a place. Here Mr. Bergin keeps it polite and professional, and has never engaged in nasty abuse or vendettas.
« Last Edit: 10/04/2011 03:16 am by Blackstar »

Offline Proponent

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Re: Gemini-B for MOL: how many built and what happened to them?
« Reply #19 on: 10/04/2011 02:26 am »
At least one MOL capsule was built I believe.

There's a BLUE GEMINI capsule on display at the US Air Force Museum with the heat shield hatch and US AIR FORCE markings.

According to the Air Force Museum website,

The spacecraft on display at the museum, although  flight-rated, never flew. It was used for heat testing and transferred  to the Air Force for use in the Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL)  program.

It's not mentioned from where the capsule was transferred, but I presume it was from NASA.  Hence, I suspect this is not a purpose-built Air Force Gemini.

By the way, the Gemini capsule to be used in MOL was the Gemini B.  "Blue Gemini" refers to an earlier, unrealized proposal for a series of dedicated Air Force Gemini flights.


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