Author Topic: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?  (Read 4678 times)

Offline Voyager4DK

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The yearly budget for SLS & MPCV is about $2.8 billion.

I would use it like this:
$500 million extra for CCDev (should be able to be evolved to BEO use).
$500 million for modular space tugs (solar and nuclear population).
$500 million for propellant depots.
$400 million for lunar lander.
$400 living of the land tech development.
$500 other tech development.   
« Last Edit: 01/07/2012 12:03 PM by Voyager4DK »

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #1 on: 01/07/2012 10:14 AM »
I would like to fund a web developer for NSF to create a mod utility to move every single SLS-vs-notSLS post to a dedicated SLS-vs-notSLS forum  8)

Sorry, I like that list but the argument is so old here that all that is left is the shouting..  :P

Maybe you could restart it as "What would you like NASA to do if it had an additional $2.5b?". It is not like it would be hard for America to find that much if it wanted to, even in a recession. NASA is chickenfeed compared to the total budget.

Offline Justin Space

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #2 on: 01/07/2012 11:01 AM »
If that happens, NASA won't get to keep the money, I bet. The anti-SLS wallys always seem to think it's taking money from other places, it's not, it's funded, because it's required, and if it's not required (cancelled), NASA won't get the money.

Simples.

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #3 on: 01/07/2012 11:12 AM »
Some people thought that once Shuttle was gone, most of the money spent on it would go into new technologies, new vehicles, new ventures... Instead; what happened? NASA got a swift $1.6 billion dollar budget cut, coming mostly from operations funding - most of which was the Shuttle budget. With nothing to replace the Shuttle short-term, the swift budget cut was more like a swift kick in the family jewels.

Cut SLS funding? You wont get it back. If SLS disappears (I hope not) then ask/help Elon Musk to develop his new, big Merlin 2 engine for Falcon X. Or help Elon make enough Merlin 1D engines so he can build lots of Falcon Heavies or cluster 5x Falcon 9 stages to make a Falcon Heavy+Plus (45 engines - 6.3 million pounds thrust at liftoff) and get the cryogenic Raptor upper stage engine up and running. Such a booster could conceivably throw nearly 40 metric tons towards Mars....
« Last Edit: 01/07/2012 11:25 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #4 on: 01/07/2012 11:24 AM »
If that unfortunately happens, then I guess we could further develop the CST-100 and ELV Heavy options.
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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #5 on: 01/07/2012 11:35 AM »
Yes. A number of Medium-Heavy EELV phased upgrades were touted by Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Without rehashing them here in detail, yet again - in summary; Atlas V-Heavy could be developed in about 4 years for a fraction of the cost of what Ares 1 would have, though it would still be less capable than Space X's Falcon Heavy concept. Delta IV-Heavy could be upgraded from from its current 25 metric ton LEO payload to more than 40 tons with no major changes to its launchpad or its RS-68 engines. More performance still could be gotten from adding GEM-60 solid booster strap-ons and an upper stage powered by the J-2X engine from the Ares/SLS program.

Mega-Heavy lift may not be strictly needed, but uprating what's around will still get us a pretty good booster. The spacecraft? CST-100 at this moment is a bare-bones Low Earth Orbit taxi concept. But I'm sure Boeing would jump at the chance to beef it up!!
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Offline spectre9

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #6 on: 01/07/2012 12:30 PM »
SLS is written into law.

Space Authorisation Act says it needs a heavy lift rocket to go beyond LEO.

It's very specific about how this rocket will be built too  :P

NASA really seems to be getting their act together on this one. I think it's way too early to write it off.

Ultimate destination Mars.

This is years after ESAS recommended the inline SDHLV.

Quote
The CaLV concept determined to offer the best option for meeting exploration goals is the Shuttle-derived in-line vehicle, LV 27.3, using two five-segment RSRBs and five SSMEs in the ET-diameter core vehicle.

What would NASA do without SLS?

NASA IS SLS!!!!!!!

Online Phillip Clark

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #7 on: 01/07/2012 07:35 PM »
If they were cancelled the United States would have to start being nice and friendly to the Chinese.
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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #8 on: 01/08/2012 12:17 AM »
No  ::) That sort of thinking is becoming an urban-myth. Private Space industry will be far more the go-to than China.
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Online MATTBLAK

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #9 on: 01/08/2012 12:19 AM »
SLS is written into law.

Space Authorisation Act says it needs a heavy lift rocket to go beyond LEO.

It's very specific about how this rocket will be built too  :P

NASA really seems to be getting their act together on this one. I think it's way too early to write it off.

Ultimate destination Mars.

This is years after ESAS recommended the inline SDHLV.

Quote
The CaLV concept determined to offer the best option for meeting exploration goals is the Shuttle-derived in-line vehicle, LV 27.3, using two five-segment RSRBs and five SSMEs in the ET-diameter core vehicle.

What would NASA do without SLS?

NASA IS SLS!!!!!!!

Just like NASA was the Shuttle? Probably... Though it'll be hard for them to become wedded to Orion/SLS if the White House and certain Senior NASA management really don't want the SLS.
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Offline SpacexULA

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #10 on: 01/08/2012 02:11 AM »
The Legislative and Executive branches "promised" NASA a budget increase to cover SLS, that never came.

They promised NASA would get to keep the Shuttle budget to help fund SLS, that fell though also.

NASA has already been put on notice that more cuts are coming next year.

So do you count SLS as canceled the day Congress/Executive shows no interest in funding it, or the day they write a bill with more/different grand promises?
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline savuporo

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #11 on: 01/08/2012 03:31 AM »
Fund Aries-1B ?
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #12 on: 01/08/2012 06:28 PM »
Some people thought that once Shuttle was gone, most of the money spent on it would go into new technologies, new vehicles, new ventures... Instead; what happened? NASA got a swift $1.6 billion dollar budget cut, coming mostly from operations funding - most of which was the Shuttle budget. With nothing to replace the Shuttle short-term, the swift budget cut was more like a swift kick in the family jewels.

Cut SLS funding? You wont get it back. If SLS disappears (I hope not) then ask/help Elon Musk to develop his new, big Merlin 2 engine for Falcon X. Or help Elon make enough Merlin 1D engines so he can build lots of Falcon Heavies or cluster 5x Falcon 9 stages to make a Falcon Heavy+Plus (45 engines - 6.3 million pounds thrust at liftoff) and get the cryogenic Raptor upper stage engine up and running. Such a booster could conceivably throw nearly 40 metric tons towards Mars....

Good post. And besides, it's the law, voted in by over 2/3s of the lawmakers.

Offline kch

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #13 on: 01/08/2012 07:01 PM »
Fund Aries-1B ?

Ha!  A "Ram-Tough" booster -- I like it.  Been a while since Chrysler Corp. built rockets.  :D

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #14 on: 01/09/2012 12:41 PM »
What would I do...?

I'm no numbers guy, so I can't give precise figures.  However, I know what I'd do:

* Authorise ULA to proceed with EELV Phase 1 (Common Centaur, Atlas-VH, 50t IMLEO Delta-IVH);
* Boost funding for Commercial Crew with a fast-paced 'milestone' competition for a BEO crew return vehicle;
* Put ULAs's ACES flexible depot/lander system up to competitive tender;
* Get a definitive report on the practicality of extending ISS to 2025, if necessary;
* Move full speed to the EML1 gateway station.

The objective of this would be to provide NASA with capabilities that can be fine-tuned to a variety of objectives, depending on exactly where future decision-makers want the agency to go.
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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #15 on: 01/09/2012 05:56 PM »
What would I do...?

I'm no numbers guy, so I can't give precise figures.  However, I know what I'd do:

* Authorise ULA to proceed with EELV Phase 1 (Common Centaur, Atlas-VH, 50t IMLEO Delta-IVH);
* Boost funding for Commercial Crew with a fast-paced 'milestone' competition for a BEO crew return vehicle;
* Put ULAs's ACES flexible depot/lander system up to competitive tender;
* Get a definitive report on the practicality of extending ISS to 2025, if necessary;
* Move full speed to the EML1 gateway station.

The objective of this would be to provide NASA with capabilities that can be fine-tuned to a variety of objectives, depending on exactly where future decision-makers want the agency to go.

Everything Ben mentioned above is foward-applicable to Mars. What's not to like? :)
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Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #16 on: 01/10/2012 06:40 AM »
Those are the elephant. Also,
Step up man-rating Atlas from 2014 to 2013.
Add a Bigelow Genesis I to ISS for habitation testing.
Add an unmanned/non-human test-scale inflatable torus to ISS to study loading, torque, moment arm.

Offline Jim

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #17 on: 01/10/2012 11:18 AM »
ISS can't handle those additions.  Anyways, Genesis is not a habitable module.  It was only a unmanned test vehicle.

Offline Namechange User

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #18 on: 01/10/2012 11:32 AM »
Strange nobody yet has mentioned developing an integrated strategy.  The tactics from that, SLS/MPCV or not, then are determined on how to meet that strategy and goals/objectives. 
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: If SLS & MPCV was canceled, what would you do instead?
« Reply #19 on: 01/10/2012 11:50 AM »
Strange nobody yet has mentioned developing an integrated strategy.  The tactics from that, SLS/MPCV or not, then are determined on how to meet that strategy and goals/objectives. 

In fairness, I don't think the OP really asks that question.  I know that, personally, I'm assuming that the same current strategy - regain US-indigenous space access and build towards BEO human exploration capability - continues.
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