Quote from: TrevorMonty on 08/16/2017 05:13 pmWhen comes to surviving 14 day lunar night here 3 options 1) Nuclear.2) Space Based Solar power beamed to surface.3) LH/LOX. Can generate 2kW/hr per kg, but takes lot more than that to convert it back from water to LH/LOX.2a) Earth based power beamed to the surface (if you are on the lunar nearside and have multiple earth beaming stations)
When comes to surviving 14 day lunar night here 3 options 1) Nuclear.2) Space Based Solar power beamed to surface.3) LH/LOX. Can generate 2kW/hr per kg, but takes lot more than that to convert it back from water to LH/LOX.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 08/16/2017 05:13 pmWhen comes to surviving 14 day lunar night here 3 options 1) Nuclear.2) Space Based Solar power beamed to surface.3) LH/LOX. Can generate 2kW/hr per kg, but takes lot more than that to convert it back from water to LH/LOX.4) Normal solar. Site the base at one of the poles, near a peak of (nearly) eternal light. That limits your dark time to a few days, depending on how high you can mount the panels.
Laser transmission is not very efficient compared to microwave but surface receiving equipment for laser is solar panel compared to complex rectenna and power conversion equipment.
The peaks of "eternal light" are nice but limit the base locations severely.
...A space elevator is allowed too.
Kitchen equipment for the galleys. If we cannot design machines for both which work in a shirt sleeves environment we are not trying. Kettles, food mixers, fridges, microwave ovens, blenders and conversional ovens are likely to be needed. With reduced gravity motorised equipment may need fastening to the work surface. Water handling equipment on Earth, including sinks, assumes 1g to provide pressure.
First space elevator should be built on the Moon.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 09/15/2017 11:30 amKitchen equipment for the galleys. If we cannot design machines for both which work in a shirt sleeves environment we are not trying. Kettles, food mixers, fridges, microwave ovens, blenders and conversional ovens are likely to be needed. With reduced gravity motorised equipment may need fastening to the work surface. Water handling equipment on Earth, including sinks, assumes 1g to provide pressure.You're assuming that 0.165g is a suitable test for 0.38g.{snip}
Quote from: Paul451 on 09/15/2017 08:53 pmYou're assuming that 0.165g is a suitable test for 0.38g.I am assuming that if it works at 1g and 0.165g then the device is highly likely to work at a middle value like 0.38g.
You're assuming that 0.165g is a suitable test for 0.38g.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 09/16/2017 09:51 amQuote from: Paul451 on 09/15/2017 08:53 pmYou're assuming that 0.165g is a suitable test for 0.38g.I am assuming that if it works at 1g and 0.165g then the device is highly likely to work at a middle value like 0.38g.If you're just checking whether a relatively off-the-shelf Earth system still works at reduced gravity -- eg, whether water still flows through a tank/pipe/tap/drain/pump/recyc -- you don't need a lunar base, it's a relatively simple yes/no question. A small unmanned elongated satellite in LEO, spun for low gravity, would give you that information for a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the cost of building and maintaining a manned lunar base.Surely the point of the question is whether things designed for the unique conditions of the Mars (things not suitable for testing on Earth) can be tested on the moon, or things built especially for the moon can be generalised for Mars. And, implied, whether that's enough justification for using the moon as a stepping stone to Mars. Does it make things easier/cheaper?[It'd be different if a lunar base cost about the same to run as, say, a remote research station on Earth. But you still wouldn't be justifying a lunar base as a Mars experiment, it'd simply be a lunar base for its own sake. You'd send stuff to be tested simply because it's there. Just as you would use an existing spin-station in LEO for testing rather than build a bespoke test satellite (or the moon), simply because it's already there and paid for.]
You are assuming that the only reason for a Moon base is as a test facility for Mars.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 09/17/2017 08:18 amYou are assuming that the only reason for a Moon base is as a test facility for Mars.No, I'm assuming that was the premise for the thread. Given that it spun off from the moon-first-then-Mars vs Mars-only argument.
Quote from: Paul451 on 09/17/2017 10:37 amQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 09/17/2017 08:18 amYou are assuming that the only reason for a Moon base is as a test facility for Mars.No, I'm assuming that was the premise for the thread. Given that it spun off from the moon-first-then-Mars vs Mars-only argument.Do not forget the third option Moon only.