Author Topic: Ethical/Political Concerns of Conceiving a Child on Mars.  (Read 30910 times)

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?
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Offline Jim

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?

Not a concern of earth based laws, politicians, and lawyers

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?

Not a concern of earth based laws, politicians, and lawyers

I must respectfully disagree. Suppose NASA sends a crew of four astronauts and one gives birth to a child in transit or on Mars. Supplies have only been allocated to support the four astronauts, not four astronauts and a baby. What do you do when the baby is born? Smother it? That would be cruel and could taint the success of a Mars mission with   the smothering of a child. Mission control should be very concerned and maybe not have laws put into place, but certain contracts being put in place to prevent conception of a child when not ready.
Clayton Birchenough

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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In your second example. I would suspect that the participants would be subjected to a sterilizing therapy of sorts prior to the mission.
In the example of colonization, conception is mandatory at least in the longer perspective. Otherwise it is not colonization, but an outpost and people will have to return to earth in order to have children. That means that noone would actually go there to stay there for ever (other than some older individuals or the few who plan to end their genetic lines).
« Last Edit: 03/02/2013 11:48 pm by Elmar Moelzer »

Online meekGee

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?

Not a concern of earth based laws, politicians, and lawyers

I must respectfully disagree. Suppose NASA sends a crew of four astronauts and one gives birth to a child in transit or on Mars. Supplies have only been allocated to support the four astronauts, not four astronauts and a baby. What do you do when the baby is born? Smother it? That would be cruel and could taint the success of a Mars mission with   the smothering of a child. Mission control should be very concerned and maybe not have laws put into place, but certain contracts being put in place to prevent conception of a child when not ready.

Eat it?

Seriously - you're painting a situation that's unreasonable.  Irrespective of whether it's a smart idea and whether it is good for the baby, the basic needs of a new born, in technical terms, fall within the supply margins...

If there's a window in which you can't physically sustain a newborn, it is very short, and the settlers will have to practice birth control during it.

After that, damn straight they are going to have kids.  It's a much cheaper way populate Mars then sending them over by rockets.

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Offline IRobot

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Unsure about the lower gravity handicap... how much will a human weight with an EVA suit on?

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?

Not a concern of earth based laws, politicians, and lawyers

I must respectfully disagree. Suppose NASA sends a crew of four astronauts and one gives birth to a child in transit or on Mars. Supplies have only been allocated to support the four astronauts, not four astronauts and a baby. What do you do when the baby is born? Smother it? That would be cruel and could taint the success of a Mars mission with   the smothering of a child. Mission control should be very concerned and maybe not have laws put into place, but certain contracts being put in place to prevent conception of a child when not ready.

Eat it?

Seriously - you're painting a situation that's unreasonable.  Irrespective of whether it's a smart idea and whether it is good for the baby, the basic needs of a new born, in technical terms, fall within the supply margins...

If there's a window in which you can't physically sustain a newborn, it is very short, and the settlers will have to practice birth control during it.

After that, damn straight they are going to have kids.  It's a much cheaper way populate Mars then sending them over by rockets.



Feed the baby normal food and water? I don't think so. Also, the facilities needed to take care for the baby like dipers? These supplies do not fall within supply margins!!!
Clayton Birchenough

Offline Atlan

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Please. We are mammals....i really have to tell you what babies eat? And diapers are no basic need at all. The wife of a friend of mine is a midwife and she told me that if you want it you can train a baby pretty fast to show when it wants to go to the toilet and then simply react. Seems to work really good. Isn't that not an issue anyway since espeacially women probably would become sterile(at least temprorary) anyway because of the radiation?
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Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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Please. We are mammals....i really have to tell you what babies eat? And diapers are no basic need at all. The wife of a friend of mine is a midwife and she told me that if you want it you can train a baby pretty fast to show when it wants to go to the toilet and then simply react. Seems to work really good. Isn't that not an issue anyway since espeacially women probably would become sterile(at least temprorary) anyway because of the radiation?

Ha I seem to have forgotten we were mammals for a minute. How will the baby be delivered in zero-g? The baby will have a very weak skeletal structure and its muscles will be mush most likely.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Atlan: Good post. The radiation is very, very unlikely to be enough to sterilize. That would have to be a very high dose.

And agreed about the diapers and milk bit.

I mean sheesh, the way people talk, it's as if humans evolved in fully modern societies with all the pleasures of the wealthy and that a little hardship (or, *gasp*, breast feeding!) would kill everyone.

Vacuum will kill you. Running out of food and water or breathable air will kill you. Crashing or making a big hole in your rocket or spacecraft will kill you. Burning to death will kill you. A little hardship or adjustment from the suburban lifestyle won't kill you.

You don't need a license to have a kid. BTW, I don't even think it's illegal to drink alcohol while pregnant (even though getting wasted while pregnant is one of the worst things you could possibly do to your child).

Life finds a way. And I agree this is probably the very cheapest way to populate a Martian settlement (once you can be largely self-sufficient).
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Offline Robotbeat

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Please. We are mammals....i really have to tell you what babies eat? And diapers are no basic need at all. The wife of a friend of mine is a midwife and she told me that if you want it you can train a baby pretty fast to show when it wants to go to the toilet and then simply react. Seems to work really good. Isn't that not an issue anyway since espeacially women probably would become sterile(at least temprorary) anyway because of the radiation?

Ha I seem to have forgotten we were mammals for a minute. How will the baby be delivered in zero-g? The baby will have a very weak skeletal structure and its muscles will be mush most likely.
The baby already is suspended weightless in fluid (with no air voids). If the mother is exercising as much as an astronaut needs to, the baby may be better off as far as skeletal stress than an Earth-baby in a developed country. Also, C-section is already an incredibly common procedure. Life (especially with a little human ingenuity) will find a way...

That isn't to say there won't be ANY increase teratogenic effects, but I really think it will be okay.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2013 12:36 am by Robotbeat »
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Offline QuantumG

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As for ethical considerations.. no child gives informed consent to being brought into existence, it's entirely the decision of the parents. Whether that is on Mars or in Paris is irrelevant. (I mean, just think about it, there's people out there who are happily making more French people!)

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Robotbeat

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As for ethical considerations.. no child gives informed consent to being brought into existence, it's entirely the decision of the parents. Whether that is on Mars or in Paris is irrelevant. (I mean, just think about it, there's people out there who are happily making more French people!)


You equate ethical with just informed consent, as if that's the only thing that matters. How libertarian of you.
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Offline QuantumG

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You equate ethical with just informed consent, as if that's the only thing that matters. How libertarian of you.

Rather than being snarky, perhaps you could elaborate?

Yes, I roll my eyes every time someone says is it really ethical to bring a child into this terrible world? in that whiny little voice people inevitably use.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Port

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the most funny thing happening would probably that the child could walk pretty_soon on mars ;)

foremost its heart should be very weak after living its first few years on mars since its grown to sustain pressure against mars-gravity not 1g

but i fear there is no way of exactly telling, guessing: sure - but you cant know what growth-factors are influenced by gravity when you never did studies of the parameter of interest
« Last Edit: 03/03/2013 12:53 am by Port »

Offline tigerade

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I would bet that most of us arguing here have no clue.

Do we have any doctors or anyone in health sciences in the house?

Offline QuantumG

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I would bet that most of us arguing here have no clue.

Do we have any doctors or anyone in health sciences in the house?

No-one knows anything about the development of humans in reduced gravity, or the radiation environment of Mars.

But assume there's some negative effects, what are the ethical implications of parents choosing to have children there?
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Robotbeat

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I would bet that most of us arguing here have no clue.

Do we have any doctors or anyone in health sciences in the house?

No-one knows anything about the development of humans in reduced gravity,
There are vertebrate analogues that have been studied. At least superficially, embryonic development is similar.

Quote
the radiation environment of Mars.
We can know some of it. For instance, parts of Ramsar, Iran have naturally very high radiation, approaching what you would get at Mars' surface, and they don't appear to have higher rates of mutations.

Quote
But assume there's some negative effects, what are the ethical implications of parents choosing to have children there?
Indeed. I apologize to libertarians for my snark: not all libertarians view ethical considerations like you appeared to in your post.

I mean, it ought to be considered unethical to binge drink while pregnant, saddling a child with mental handicaps for the rest of their life. The fact that the child has no choice doesn't reduce that.

(I'm with you on the whiny voice folk, though.)
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To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online meekGee

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When humans eventually establish a semi-permanent base and start to colonize Mars, children will start to be conceived on purpose or accidentally. What laws will their be concerning the conception of a child on Mars? Even if laws do allow conception, would it be ethical to subject an unborn child to reduced gravity situations that could prove disastrous to its health? Being born on Mars may allow the child to never travel back to Earth because of its weaker muscles/bones. Also, there is always the possibility a child could be conceived accidentally and the medical facilities and supplies to support the newborn child are not present. What precautions/policies should be put into place to be prepared for a pregnancy on Mars?

Not a concern of earth based laws, politicians, and lawyers

I must respectfully disagree. Suppose NASA sends a crew of four astronauts and one gives birth to a child in transit or on Mars. Supplies have only been allocated to support the four astronauts, not four astronauts and a baby. What do you do when the baby is born? Smother it? That would be cruel and could taint the success of a Mars mission with   the smothering of a child. Mission control should be very concerned and maybe not have laws put into place, but certain contracts being put in place to prevent conception of a child when not ready.

Eat it?

Seriously - you're painting a situation that's unreasonable.  Irrespective of whether it's a smart idea and whether it is good for the baby, the basic needs of a new born, in technical terms, fall within the supply margins...

If there's a window in which you can't physically sustain a newborn, it is very short, and the settlers will have to practice birth control during it.

After that, damn straight they are going to have kids.  It's a much cheaper way populate Mars then sending them over by rockets.



Feed the baby normal food and water? I don't think so. Also, the facilities needed to take care for the baby like dipers? These supplies do not fall within supply margins!!!

Also jazz lessons are hard to come by on Mars.  I didn't say it will be cozy.  But if it happens accidentally, the baby won't die.

Remember that even the most rudimentary Mars ground mission will have to have a pretty substantial supply base set up before the crews land, and for several years. This will by necessity be pretty diverse, and lemme guess there will be some relatively wet food there as well, so people can have a small percentage of their diet not be dry rations - and so the little bugger is going to eat everyone's apple sauce.

But be sure, within 10 years of first crews landing, having kids will be part of the deal.
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Offline MattJL

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I would bet that most of us arguing here have no clue.

Do we have any doctors or anyone in health sciences in the house?

No-one knows anything about the development of humans in reduced gravity, or the radiation environment of Mars.

But assume there's some negative effects, what are the ethical implications of parents choosing to have children there?

Frankly, I think it all boils down to how bad the (assumed) effects are.  The worst I could imagine is a shorter lifespan than their Earth-bound counterparts, probably brought about by a weaker cardiovascular system.

Talking about returning children home, well, if colonization's the goal, then what's the need to shuttle them back to Earth?  Virginia Dare wasn't brought back from Roanoke, after all.

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