Author Topic: Ares I Development Thread  (Read 328647 times)

Offline floss

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1300 on: 04/12/2015 10:46 AM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.



Thanks I think it would be a very valuable asset for testing upgrades .

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1301 on: 04/21/2015 12:20 AM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.



I wonder if two or three BE-3s could be used as a substitute for the J-2X?
It probably would not be capable of launching Orion though since the BE-3 likely has a lower ISP then the J-2X.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2015 12:26 AM by Patchouli »

Offline Jim

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1302 on: 04/21/2015 02:00 AM »

Thanks I think it would be a very valuable asset for testing upgrades .

Testing upgrades to what?  And Ares I is dead.  What is still brought up once in awhile is an SRB based vehicle.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2015 02:00 AM by Jim »

Offline spacenut

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1303 on: 04/21/2015 01:33 PM »
Is the SRB based vehicle all solid, including the second stage?  Just curious.  Seems like it would be expensive. 

Offline floss

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1304 on: 04/21/2015 03:15 PM »

Thanks I think it would be a very valuable asset for testing upgrades .

Testing upgrades to what?  And Ares I is dead.  What is still brought up once in awhile is an SRB based vehicle.


Advanced solid boosters and upperstage engines  for SLS it might be handy to test them on a cheaper launcher before mounting them on a multi billion dollar manned launcher .

Offline Jim

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1305 on: 04/21/2015 03:21 PM »

Advanced solid boosters and upperstage engines  for SLS it might be handy to test them on a cheaper launcher before mounting them on a multi billion dollar manned launcher .

Not at all, it would be a waste.  Its not worth the cost to develop a new launcher to test new boosters or upper stage engines that don't really need dedicated flight tests.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2015 03:22 PM by Jim »

Offline newpylong

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1306 on: 05/15/2015 05:50 PM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.

Ares I != Liberty.

Offline floss

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1307 on: 05/17/2015 02:38 PM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.

Ares I != Liberty.


No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .
« Last Edit: 05/17/2015 02:39 PM by floss »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1308 on: 05/18/2015 03:41 AM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

Heh, there's foreign and then there's foreign.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? The slowest possible.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1309 on: 05/23/2015 12:44 AM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

Heh, there's foreign and then there's foreign.


It's highly unlikely there will be any embargo's with France.

It should be noted for a while the Delta IV's second stage's hydrogen tank was was made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries so having a foreign  contractor manufacture a tank is nothing new.

I wonder could a stretched Delta IV second stage plus a BE-3 or the first stage of the H-IIA make a decent second stage on a smaller Ares I.
Though in the latter the it might be desirable to substitute the LE-7A for a J-2X or two BE-3s.

At first I thought the stick was ludicrous but with the RD-180 situation maybe the concept wasn't so crazy after all.
« Last Edit: 05/23/2015 12:50 AM by Patchouli »

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1310 on: 05/23/2015 04:34 AM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.

Ares I != Liberty.


No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

We already have two of those: Falcon and Delta.  And they exist today.

Aries I would cost billions of dollars and several years to develop.

Vulcan is being developed, and it would be cheaper and take less development time than trying to go back to Ares I.

So there are at least three other alternatives to Atlas V that don't use Russian engines and are significantly better.

Offline Jim

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1311 on: 05/23/2015 01:12 PM »
Sorry about this but with the merger of Orbital and ATK and present Russian difficulties is Ares I back on ?

It was never off.. they've pitched it at every RFP NASA has put out since Constellation.

Ares I != Liberty.


No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

Ares I had nothing to do with "politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts . "
And Liberty?  How does using an Ariane based stage not "no foreign parts"
Also, Ares I was far from "all American finest engineering", it was a kludge

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1312 on: 05/23/2015 02:08 PM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

We already have two of those: Falcon and Delta.  And they exist today.
Only Delta 4 Heavy is the in the ballpark of Ares 1 payload to LEO capability, and it (the world's most capable launch vehicle) is in danger of early forced retirement.  Falcon 9 is not remotely in that ballpark.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1313 on: 05/23/2015 06:45 PM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

We already have two of those: Falcon and Delta.  And they exist today.
Only Delta 4 Heavy is the in the ballpark of Ares 1 payload to LEO capability, and it (the world's most capable launch vehicle) is in danger of early forced retirement.  Falcon 9 is not remotely in that ballpark.

All of that is irrelevant because the question was whether it makes sense to bring back Ares I as a replacement for Atlas V.  All that matters is what alternatives there are for the missions Atlas V is doing.

And I said "Falcon", not "Falcon 9".  That includes both the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy variants, just as Atlas V includes a range of different variants with different performance and Delta IV includes medium and heavy variants.  The Falcon Heavy variant exceeds the performance of all variants of Atlas V (and also Delta IV and Ares I).

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1314 on: 05/23/2015 08:54 PM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

We already have two of those: Falcon and Delta.  And they exist today.
Only Delta 4 Heavy is the in the ballpark of Ares 1 payload to LEO capability, and it (the world's most capable launch vehicle) is in danger of early forced retirement.  Falcon 9 is not remotely in that ballpark.

All of that is irrelevant because the question was whether it makes sense to bring back Ares I as a replacement for Atlas V.  All that matters is what alternatives there are for the missions Atlas V is doing.

And I said "Falcon", not "Falcon 9".  That includes both the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy variants, just as Atlas V includes a range of different variants with different performance and Delta IV includes medium and heavy variants.  The Falcon Heavy variant exceeds the performance of all variants of Atlas V (and also Delta IV and Ares I).

Falcon Heavy does not "exist today".  It won't exist until it proves itself in flight.  Even then I don't think that it will match Atlas 5 performance to GTO, etc, when used the way SpaceX wants to use it (recovering stages). 

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1315 on: 05/25/2015 05:15 AM »
No Aries 1 all American finest engineering.
    Liberty French US collaboration.
The point was that the politicians want a near term rocket to replace Atlas that has no foreign parts .

We already have two of those: Falcon and Delta.  And they exist today.
Only Delta 4 Heavy is the in the ballpark of Ares 1 payload to LEO capability, and it (the world's most capable launch vehicle) is in danger of early forced retirement.  Falcon 9 is not remotely in that ballpark.

 - Ed Kyle
An Ares I like LV would need a third stage about the size of a Centaur-G to perform the same missions as a heavy variant of Atlas or Delta though some missions probably could be done with the PAM-D from the Shuttle though you'd have to carry two or more in some sorta carrier to make use of the payload available.
« Last Edit: 05/25/2015 05:17 AM by Patchouli »

Offline sdsds

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1316 on: 05/25/2015 07:33 PM »
Personally I prefer to put bounds on what "Ares I" means. It doesn't include any/all launchers with a segmented solid first stage and a hydrogen upper stage! Ares I is specifically a "crew launch vehicle" that works in combination with a "crew exploration vehicle" (e.g. Orion) that makes rendezvous in LEO with an "Ares V" cargo launch vehicle. AIUI this is the "Vision for Space Exploration."

I don't believe that vision is entirely extinguished. To the contrary I think some influential people see SLS as being a first step along a path to that future. Doesn't pushing forward the EUS keep "alive" the 5.5m tank tooling needed to manufacture an Ares I second stage?
-- sdsds --

Offline spacenut

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1317 on: 09/19/2016 07:52 PM »
Why didn't they consider using strap on solids like on Atlas or Delta to overcome the lack of power the second stage had to lift Orion?  Were they overcompensating on safety?

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Ares I Development Thread
« Reply #1318 on: 09/28/2016 10:14 PM »
Why didn't they consider using strap on solids like on Atlas or Delta to overcome the lack of power the second stage had to lift Orion?  Were they overcompensating on safety?

The entire Aris I effort could be summarized as follows: When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. They were hellbent on making sure that it only used SRBs and J-2X, which would allow them to backdoor-fund Ares V.

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