Author Topic: Alien: Covenant  (Read 16145 times)

Offline Lars-J

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Alien: Covenant
« on: 05/21/2017 08:49 pm »
So I saw this film yesterday. My reaction? Eh... B-. A film that is hamstrung by its need to be both a Prometheus sequel and an Alien prequel.

I'm probably one of the few that liked Prometheus a lot. It has a lot of flaws, but still heads and shoulders above most Alien films. And Prometheus is IMO a far superior film than Alien: Covenant.

As far as scientific accuracy, this film has a *shocking* lack of understanding of orbital mechanics. Apparently a low orbit is just hanging by the top of clouds, at a leisurely pace. :D

And it has a heavy cargo lander that is apparently virtually impossible to fly or do its basic job for plot reasons. Lol.
« Last Edit: 05/21/2017 08:50 pm by Lars-J »

Offline SweetWater

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #1 on: 05/21/2017 09:18 pm »
I saw the movie over the weekend, and I wasn't a huge fan. The orbital mechanics issue bothered me - I realize that most people won't know or care that you can't maintain a low orbit over one particular point on a planet that is approximately the same size as Earth, but it would have been an easy throw-away line to say something about releasing a few satellites so that the Covenant could maintain communications with the landing party. It would be logical for a colony ship to keep a few such satellites in stock (or at least be able to build them).

Personally, I can suspend my disbelief on the implausibility of the whole cargo lander sequence. What does strain credibility is the idea that there was only 1 crew lander. This is supposed to be a colony ship, for crying out loud, one with 2000 colonists in suspended animation. At some point, they would all need to get from the ship to the planet they are intending to colonize, and there's only 1 crew lander that looks like it can fit about a dozen people up front and maybe twice that in the back, if they're all standing?

What bothered me most was how quickly the crew went from the Covenant down to the planet. There was no survey of the planet, nor anyone saying "Let's wait a few days and see if this storm dies down." They seemed to burn into orbit, get right into the (only) crew lander, land in water (the depth of which they can't possibly know), then pile out of the lander in their shirtsleeves. I realize they could determine the composition of the atmosphere and know that it was breathable, but they had no way of telling what kind of plant and animal life would be present, what kind of pathogens, etc.


Offline Lars-J

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #2 on: 05/21/2017 10:10 pm »
Yes poor character decision making (beyond the obvious) is really the worst part of Prometheus and Covenant.

But the lander thing keeps bugging me. The lander has ONE JOB. To be able to land heavy cargo, yet without any cargo is seems impossible to control, just for the sake of an action sequence where they seem to run into every obstacle on the ground.

Offline Oli

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #3 on: 05/22/2017 10:54 am »
I'm so done with this franchise. Prometheus was so cringe worthy, the only thing that kept me from walking out was my seat being in the middle of the row. Scott should retire.

Online Blackstar

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #4 on: 05/22/2017 03:42 pm »
I'm so done with this franchise. Prometheus was so cringe worthy, the only thing that kept me from walking out was my seat being in the middle of the row. Scott should retire.

Doesn't exactly make you feel optimistic about Blade Runner 2049, does it?

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #5 on: 05/22/2017 04:43 pm »
I'm so done with this franchise. Prometheus was so cringe worthy, the only thing that kept me from walking out was my seat being in the middle of the row. Scott should retire.

Doesn't exactly make you feel optimistic about Blade Runner 2049, does it?

I'm excited... Keep in mind Scott is only attached as a producer. Denis Villeneuve is directing, and his last film was "The Arrival".

As for Ridley Scott in general, the guy is an amazing visual film maker.  He makes thing look cool, but he has no interest whatsoever in making things plausible from a technical point of view (in fact he seems to go to great lengths to make things implausible)  ;D . And don't let him near the script writing process. :) So under specific caveats I do still look forward to films from him. And I'm a sucker for all things Sci-Fi.

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #6 on: 05/22/2017 05:08 pm »
I think you are all very generous in your technical criticism of Alien Covenant.   Yes the issue with orbiting in the atmosphere was messed up & sloppy, but who else besides me laughed when a neutrino burst blew down the gossamer thin energy sails of the covenant to cause them to exit hypersleep?  Yes, neutrinos, those ghostly subatomic particles that pass through entire planets without interacting, caused a massive disruption to the covenant's energy sails.  Downhill from there.

The way Ridley Scott writes into the script the complete ignorance to danger regarding of all the humans interactions with non-earth organisms is the worst movie sin I see.   You would think that in order to display such ignorant disregards to an alien biosphere as was shown in Prometheus & Covenant, humans must have visited thousands of previous planets and only found tribbles, rainbow unicorns, & anime kitties inhabiting our galaxy to be so completely inept in not guarding themselves against bacteria, viruses, & pathogens when visiting another planet with a biosphere.

I still like the movie due to the plot developments surrounding the themes of AI run amok, the ending was chilling & very disturbing.
« Last Edit: 05/23/2017 05:13 am by Stan-1967 »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #7 on: 05/23/2017 05:08 am »
You would think that in order to display such ignorant disregards to an alien biosphere as was shown in Prometheus & Covenant, humans mush have visited thousands of previous planets and only found tribbles, rainbow unicorns, & anime kitties inhabiting our galaxy to be so completely inept in not guarding themselves against bacteria, viruses, & pathogens when visiting another planet with a biosphere.
Absolutely spot on. Mind boggling stupidity.

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #8 on: 05/24/2017 01:43 am »
It was just boring.  Nothing scary at all.  No excitement.  Just predictable stupidity.

Offline rsnellenberger

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #9 on: 05/24/2017 01:52 am »
Cribbed from Wikipedia: 

As the character of Kate Austen remarked in a deleted scene from Lost: "It's not a soap opera until somebody's evil twin shows up."

Offline TripD

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #10 on: 05/24/2017 07:25 am »
I held out hope up until the very end that at least there would be some philosophical hook or otherwise interesting insight into life to make it worth my ticket.  What I got was a laughably obvious plot twist.  :-\

Offline seeya later navigator

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #11 on: 05/25/2017 10:40 am »
I saw this movie last night. What a waste of effort. Not mine.. I just don't get how a group of people can sit around dreaming this drivel up and think it will sell. Only die hard fans of Alien will go to see this in the hope of a revival of the story. There were only about ten paying customers in the theater I was in for the evening show. I hope that it doesn't make enough to finish the trilogy because the plot line is crap.nothing happens to shock you. Not one character is worth caring about.

And apparently , IN SPACE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREAM, no,  but you can hear a gossamer thin solar sail lock into place with a click and a ruffle.

   Don't go to see it.So many things technically wrong. I mean how can a cargo hauler that has all the aerodynamics of an oil rig platform drop from 40 kilometers up and not break appart ?
It's the one in a million chance that always happens nine times out of ten.

Offline TripD

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #12 on: 05/26/2017 12:32 am »
Quote
Doesn't exactly make you feel optimistic about Blade Runner 2049, does it?

The original is untouchable and should not be sullied.  Just say no to Blade Re-Runner.

Offline RaySpace89

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #13 on: 05/29/2017 01:26 pm »
I agree with those who didn't like it... The movie was boring and I nearly fall asleep in the movies - that never happen to me! It was just bad, way worse than the Prometheus (this was actually quite decent). I hope that this is the end for this series. Just leave this franchise in peace...

Offline Triptych

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #14 on: 05/30/2017 04:12 pm »
I didnt like it. The characters made so many stupid decisions (like taking a bath when there's an alien monster on the loose, walking into a basement when its clear there's eggs there and staring into an egg like an idiot, etc.)

The only nice thing about the movie was Michael Fassbender playing dual roles.

Online Blackstar

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #15 on: 06/10/2017 09:05 pm »
« Last Edit: 06/10/2017 09:10 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Kimbo996

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #16 on: 08/13/2017 09:05 am »
And on top of the other problems, when the (sole, for 2000 colonists) lander de-orbits, it goes forward, and accelerates!  Then it hits rain, above the exosphere, never heats up or otherwise sheds energy, then flies without wings all the way to the water touchdown.  How can these people do something this bad.  Watch The Incredibles, by Pixar, a cheesy cartoon about superheroes, that somehow gets the (OK impossible) scientific details brilliantly plausible (sounding).  Zero point energy anyone?

Online Blackstar

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #17 on: 08/13/2017 09:57 pm »
And on top of the other problems, when the (sole, for 2000 colonists) lander de-orbits, it goes forward, and accelerates!  Then it hits rain, above the exosphere, never heats up or otherwise sheds energy, then flies without wings all the way to the water touchdown.  How can these people do something this bad.  Watch The Incredibles, by Pixar, a cheesy cartoon about superheroes, that somehow gets the (OK impossible) scientific details brilliantly plausible (sounding).  Zero point energy anyone?

You lost me when you called The Incredibles "cheesy..."

Offline infinite

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #18 on: 08/19/2017 12:28 am »
Yeah the movie sort of instantly lost its SCIENCE-fiction status for me when they walked out of the lander as if they landed in the new Americas in the 1600s. No one knows how many species of microbes there are there, that humans have never encountered before, it would probably be the reverse of what happened when Europeans went to the Americas, in that the Europeans would be the ones nearly (or likely entirely) wiped out by various pesky buggers. From that moment in the movie I just saw it as a fantasy movie in order to enjoy it.
I rather enjoyed thinking about (spoiler alert!!!!) the immortal robot that could go around spreading life (and destroying life he doesn't want) forever. he of course is immune to all the pesky buggers he encounters, so he can walk out of the lander wherever he goes as if he's on a safari.

Skimming the atmosphere isn't a deal-breaker for me, just burn engines to maintain altitude against the air resistance and its perfectly OK. But that they just launched to the surface right away? That was just daft. They could have at least done some scans waiting for the storm to subside, then discover there's life on scans, and then launch anyway after a few days when the storm didn't go away. Would've been slightly less moronic. And I think the plot-point of no lifeforms was poorly brought forth while trekking through the forest in a passing remark, it would have been a more interesting plot-point if they discovered it in orbit from scans, considering that there was buildings there as well. A class M planet with buildings from technological life and no lifeforms apart from plants? And on top of that, a radio signal from something?

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #19 on: 11/19/2017 04:34 am »
Just got to see this.

My big problem was that they did an Alien3 dick move with the plot. How did they figure that was a good idea?

Alien II was a good action movie. It was more than a slasher. It had 4 survivors that we had invested a bit in. Alien3 kills them all including the little girl, burning up that emotional investment for a cheap shock. They could have left the girl in stasis or whatever and resurrected her at any time in the future. The Alien3 plot was a bit of a wank, but that would be ok if you could look past it to the next movie. It just seemed so arrogant to burn up the franchise for a bit of yuck. I can't watch the 2nd movie without pretending the 3rd didn't happen or it is just a dull waste for me.

Alien:Covernant did the exact same thing. Prometheus Had some issues but it had two characters who we could invest in, and a great mystery they were embarking on. In Covernant we fine one is horribly murdered and the other is a dick. The big mystery? That was dealt with by just dropping a bomb on everything. Like the movie Life, it was nothing but a gruesome slasher. Even as a slasher it was higgledy-piggledy. It had two Psycho shower scenes.

The twist at the end was so grindingly obvious I watched the whole last minutes on mute in the background just to see if anything else looked like it happened. I have zero interest in whatever the psychopath's final monologue was.

===
I was really looking forward to Covenant. Prometheus set up an hard to swallow Erich von Däniken-like god as spaceman style mystery. I love those ancient artifact tales but obviously that direction needs a brilliant twist of an explanation to be credible to a rational person. We know humans evolved here. Period. Im pretty sure I heard a quote from the director that there really was going to be a coherent answer to this. Then we got this thing instead.

The best explanation I could come up with is some sort of multi billion year program, pretty much as old as the universe, was booting up in the galaxy. The purpose could remain a total mystery. The point is that there are colonising waves that spread through the galaxy carrying new instructions and booting the program up to the next level. It is not just nanomachines with preprogrammed objectives. Evolution is part of the program. It may be trying to solve a problem. Perhaps each wave is separated by 100,000 years, time enough to gather all information to the galactic core and send it new instructions again. This constant tweaking is how the weirdly parallel evolution occurs.

The humanoid aliens and their religion is a correct expression of the program. Something went wrong on earth and Earth's programming became corrupted. Human's gained free will. From the point of view of the program they are a cancer.

The program has begun to detect the cancer and is booting up it's antivirus software.

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