Author Topic: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013  (Read 75144 times)

Offline beidou

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • Mars
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 3
The wreckage was found, but it was mistakenly noticed as that from Shenzhou-10 ( ;D) even with nuclear radiation ( :o). Some detail and pictures are available here:
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=258990&fromuid=24484
« Last Edit: 07/21/2013 10:57 am by beidou »

Offline input~2

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6810
  • Liked: 1540
  • Likes Given: 567
Both fairing sections fell inside the NOTAMed zone over Hubei province.
One half near Taipingba village (N295200E1090837), the other half, some 18km away SW near Xiaohefu village (N294808E1085827)
« Last Edit: 07/21/2013 01:12 pm by input~2 »

Offline input~2

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6810
  • Liked: 1540
  • Likes Given: 567
For an SSO altitude of about 670 km (as seems to be the case here) the maximum capability of CZ-4C is about 2950 kg (source).
That would correspond to the maximum mass of the 3 S/C plus 2 P/L adaptors.

Offline beidou

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • Mars
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 3

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

A propaganda article from Chinese media: http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=259375&fromuid=24484

 

Basically the interesting things from the article are:

1. SY-7 is indeed built by CASC's affiliate DFH Satellites Corp.  (which built SY-4 launched in 2011). Since it is described as being an important milestone for China's space exploration and space station programs, this confirms that it is the satellite that carries the prototype robotic arm.
2. CX-3 is indeed built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
3. SJ-15 was finally launched after 8 years of development (!) - it looks like that it may have some even more interesting orbital objects tracking abilities than initally thought (hint of something not unlike those "Star Wars" missions by BMOD in the 1980/90s?  ;)).
4. The rocket arrived at the launch site on July 2.
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 1290
  • Likes Given: 775
  arm.
2. CX-3 is indeed built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

Presumably, specifically the Shanghai microsatellite engineering center of the CAS? (which built CX-1-01)
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline beidou

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • Mars
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 3
The Chinese are discussing the SJ-15 is the Chinese version of SBSS. I would bet the Americans here know much better about this mission than they do. ;D
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=259544&fromuid=24484

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Looks like two of the satellites deployed has just made a very close pass of each other half a day ago per NORAD tracking data - are we going to see the first ever use of a Chinese robotic arm grappling in space soon?

From Robert Christy: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline beidou

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • Mars
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 3

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1882
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 1084
  • Likes Given: 88
Looks like two of the satellites deployed has just made a very close pass of each other half a day ago per NORAD tracking data - are we going to see the first ever use of a Chinese robotic arm grappling in space soon?

From Robert Christy: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396

1. According to TLE, on Aug 09 object C has an approach to object B, Cannot judge on minimal distance but it could be in the range of several kilometers.

2. On Aug 10 one can see small but visible change in the orbit of B. Calculating directly from TLEs, from 98.055°, 667.7x672.3 km, to 98.058°, 668.0x672.0 km.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Online Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1882
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 1084
  • Likes Given: 88

2. On Aug 10 one can see small but visible change in the orbit of B. Calculating directly from TLEs, from 98.055°, 667.7x672.3 km, to 98.058°, 668.0x672.0 km.

... which reverted to original orbit today. Interesting, too.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Some very interesting news: it seems that NORAD's "object C" (SY-7?) has made some very large orbital changes over the past 3 days - the orbit became 502 X 510 km X 98.05° (100 km decrease in altitude!  :o) on August 16 and now it's 565 X 610 X 97.7° (inclination decrease!) - apparently it is closing in with good old SJ-7 launched in 2005. Hmm?  ???
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Some very interesting news: it seems that NORAD's "object C" (SY-7?) has made some very large orbital changes over the past 3 days - the orbit became 502 X 510 km X 98.05° (100 km decrease in altitude!  :o) on August 16 and now it's 565 X 610 X 97.7° (inclination decrease!) - apparently it is closing in with good old SJ-7 launched in 2005. Hmm?  ???


A better report from Robert Christie: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396#plot
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 1290
  • Likes Given: 775
Great analysis by both you and Bob!  Makes me wonder what all the past maneuvers of SJ-7 were about - in particular, could it also have been doing rendezvous experiments.
Have you checked if the Aug -Oct 2008  manuevers passed close to any other satellites?
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline JimO

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
  • Texas, USA
  • Liked: 482
  • Likes Given: 195
see:

Surprise Chinese Satellite Maneuvers Mystify Western Experts
Marcia S. Smith
Posted: 19-Aug-2013
Updated: 19-Aug-2013 12:23 PM
http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/surprise-chinese-satelllite-maneuvers-mystify-western-experts#.UhI_o6e-06M.twitter

China is the midst of conducting unusual satellite maneuvers involving a new satellite launched last month and an older satellite in orbit for eight years.  Exactly what capabilities the Chinese are demonstrating remains unclear to western analysts.

Offline weedenbc

  • Member
  • Posts: 91
  • Washington, DC
  • Liked: 21
  • Likes Given: 0
Very interesting, seems to be similar in some ways to the SJ-12/SJ-06F rendezvous from 2010:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1689/1

Still seems to me to be much more indicative of on-orbit inspection than an ASAT weapons test. The maneuvers are occurring over a pretty long time period and the rate of closure is nothing like what you'd want for a kinetic kill.

Absolutely dual-use technology that could have weapons applications, but not significantly different than DART, XSS-11, MiTeX, Orbital Express, PRISMA, Phoenix, or some other projects that involve rendezvous in orbit.
---
Brian Weeden

Offline JimO

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
  • Texas, USA
  • Liked: 482
  • Likes Given: 195
Might it have something to do with the automated lunar sample return mission that involves rendezvous/cargo-transfer of the ascent stage and the return capsule in lunar orbit?

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13996
  • UK
  • Liked: 3974
  • Likes Given: 220
Could it have something like a robotic arm on it & perhaps it's going to get hold of one of the targets.

Offline JimO

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
  • Texas, USA
  • Liked: 482
  • Likes Given: 195
Could it have something like a robotic arm on it & perhaps it's going to get hold of one of the targets.

Using a robotic arm for grapple may be a clue for the nature of the intended targets. If it's a specialized latching mechanism such as on the STS RMS, it implies a target installed with compatible fixtures, requiring advanced planning. If it's a generic hand-like mechanism, as some TV news suggests, it indicates a generic target not originally expected to be grabbed.

Another clue that I've been unable to decipher is the orbital inclination.

« Last Edit: 08/24/2013 05:50 pm by JimO »

Offline JimO

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
  • Texas, USA
  • Liked: 482
  • Likes Given: 195
Very interesting, seems to be similar in some ways to the SJ-12/SJ-06F rendezvous from 2010:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1689/1

Still seems to me to be much more indicative of on-orbit inspection than an ASAT weapons test. The maneuvers are occurring over a pretty long time period and the rate of closure is nothing like what you'd want for a kinetic kill. 

Good news and bad news.

It's not just the maneuvers themselves that seem slow [although that's no indication of how quickly they could occur operationally]. The test program is stretching over years. Is that really consistent with a military-intended system?

As for rate of closure, it will have sensors specifically designed for proximity operations at low-to-zero rates. But once grappled and emplaced against a selected region of the satellite, it can carry a tool or a hand grenade, for whatever purpose is desired.

"Space mines" are theoretically the devices that attach themselves to operational satellites for activation at some future point.

Until recently, US DoD satellites had little if any 'situational awareness' around themselves, not enough ability to detect approaching or even latched-on small objects. The 'space mine' left behind by a manipulator-equipped covert rendezvouser could be low enough mass, or cleverly enough positioned, to be unnoticed by the target's attitude control system.

That's always been my gut feeling about the X-37 tests -- testing proximity sensors to hear, smell, or feel touch of unexpected visitors.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0