Author Topic: ISS decommissioning  (Read 22009 times)

Offline martian1

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ISS decommissioning
« on: 08/10/2008 09:48 am »
I know it's a while before this will happen but what is going to happen to the ISS when it is no longer used?
They can't just let it come down on one huge lump.
Will they just keep reboosting it into a higher orbit somehow?
(I remember all the fuss about Skylab)

Offline perian

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #1 on: 08/10/2008 10:18 am »
They will send ATV with lot of fuel, and then boost ISS into the Pacific Ocean, just like Mir ;)

Offline hektor

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #2 on: 08/10/2008 12:39 pm »
And this ATV will be called the "Arnold Schwarzenegger".

Since Austria is an ESA country.
« Last Edit: 08/10/2008 12:41 pm by hektor »

Offline Analyst

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #3 on: 08/10/2008 02:15 pm »
ATV is one option being discussed. There are others. Way too early to tell. We are still building it.

Analyst
« Last Edit: 08/10/2008 02:18 pm by Analyst »

Offline hanschristian

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #4 on: 08/15/2008 02:06 am »
And this ATV will be called the "Arnold Schwarzenegger".

Since Austria is an ESA country.

You are TERMINATED

just joking... hehe :D
The Sky is NOT the Limit...

Offline Patchouli

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #5 on: 08/15/2008 04:29 am »
One solution might be to safe it fold the solar arrays up and boost it up into a museum orbit that will last 50 years or more using a VASIMR tug or an EDS set to very low thrust.
The VASIMR engine they want to put on ISS also should be able to perform this maneuver given enough fuel if the solar arrays are still able to generate enough power.

A pair of Orion SMs also might have enough delta V to raise ISS into a museum orbit.

Boost it into a 1000 to 2000 mile orbit it's not coming down any time soon and should be safe from most orbital debris.

Another solution might be to dissemble it reuse the newest parts on a new station or sell them to private groups and dispose of old parts individually or have a next gen RLV fetch them for display in a museum.

The museum orbit is what I feel should be done with Hubble since it made so many discoveries it seems like a crime to destroy it.
« Last Edit: 08/15/2008 04:40 am by Patchouli »

Offline Jorge

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #6 on: 08/15/2008 04:49 am »
One solution might be to safe it fold the solar arrays up and boost it up into a museum orbit that will last 50 years or more using a VASIMR tug or an EDS set to very low thrust.
The VASIMR engine they want to put on ISS also should be able to perform this maneuver given enough fuel if the solar arrays are still able to generate enough power.

There's a teensy disconnect here between "fold the solar arrays" and "if the solar arrays are still able to generate enough power".

Quote
A pair of Orion SMs also might have enough delta V to raise ISS into a museum orbit.

Boost it into a 1000 to 2000 mile orbit it's not coming down any time soon and should be safe from most orbital debris.

Umm, you do realize that's well within the inner Van Allen belts, right? Hell of a "museum orbit"... the avionics will be completely toast in a matter of hours, and no human will be able to visit it again.

Quote
Another solution might be to dissemble it reuse the newest parts on a new station or sell them to private groups and dispose of old parts individually or have a next gen RLV fetch them for display in a museum.

It would cost more to disassemble and reuse.
JRF

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #7 on: 08/31/2008 10:20 am »
One solution might be to safe it fold the solar arrays up and boost it up into a museum orbit that will last 50 years or more using a VASIMR tug or an EDS set to very low thrust.

Which means the ISS will crash in 50 to 60 years time.  We do not know where it will hit.  that is a problems delayed, not a problem solved.

Offline Jeff Bingham

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #8 on: 08/31/2008 11:40 am »
Did a quick search of my files and came up with the attached, which was done in 1999. While the prop module was never developed, the presentation does have some interesting de-orbit-related data. There is also a long-standing ISS Environmental Impact Statement that addresses this, since having a "disposal plan" has been a requirement from the early days of the program.
Offering only my own views and experience as a long-time "Space Cadet."

siatwork

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #9 on: 08/31/2008 11:46 am »
Did a quick search of my files and came up with the attached, which was done in 1999. While the prop module was never developed, the presentation does have some interesting de-orbit-related data. There is also a long-standing ISS Environmental Impact Statement that addresses this, since having a "disposal plan" has been a requirement from the early days of the program.

Interesting document.  Thanks.  There is a disposal liability consideration in the ISS agreement.  Controlled de-orbit at termination is a requirement.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2008 11:48 am by siatwork »

Offline Warren Platts

Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #10 on: 08/31/2008 03:29 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Jorge

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #11 on: 08/31/2008 03:35 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.
JRF

Offline Warren Platts

Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #12 on: 08/31/2008 06:01 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.

WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT
FOR PURCHASE OF INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION



      1. In consideration for receiving permission to participate in the I hereby RELEASE, WAIVE, DISCHARGE AND COVENANT NOT TO SUE THE NATIONAL AERONAUTICAL AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION (NASA), THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, their officers, agents, servants, or employees (hereinafter referred to as RELEASEES) from any and all liability, claims, demands, actions and causes of action whatsoever arising out of or related to any loss, damage, or injury, including death, that may be sustained by me, or any of the property belonging to me, WHETHER CAUSED BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE RELEASEES, or otherwise, while participating in such activity, or while in, on or upon the premises where the activity is being conducted.

      2. I am fully aware of the unusual risks involved and hazards connected with this activity, including but not limited to travel risks and/or.  I hereby elect to voluntarily participate in said activity with full  knowledge that said activity may be hazardous to me and my property.  I VOLUNTARILY ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY RISKS OF LOSS, PROPERTY DAMAGE OR PERSONAL INJURY, INCLUDING DEATH, that my be sustained by me, or any loss or damage of property owned by me, as a result of being engaged in such activity, WHETHER CAUSED BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF RELEASEES OR OTHERWISE.

      3. I further hereby AGREE TO INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS the RELEASEES from any loss, liability, damage or costs, including court costs and attorney fees, that they may incur due to my participation in said activity, WHETHER CAUSED BY NEGLIGENCE OF RELEASEES or otherwise.

      4. I understand that NASA does not maintain any insurance policy, other than fleet insurance coverage, covering any circumstance arising from my participation in this event or any activity associated with or facilitating that participation.  As such, I am aware that I should review my personal insurance portfolio.

      5. It is my express intent that this Waiver of Liability and Hold Harmless Agreement shall bind the members of my family and spouse, if I am alive, and my heirs, assigns and personal representative, if I am deceased, and shall be deemed as a RELEASE, WAIVER, DISCHARGE AND COVENANT NOT TO USE SUE the above-named RELEASEES.  I hereby further agree that this Waiver of Liability and Hold Harmless Agreement shall be construed in accordance with the laws of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

      6. IN SIGNING THIS RELEASE, I ACKNOWLEDGE AND REPRESENT THAT I have read the foregoing Waiver of Liability and Hold Harmless Agreement, understand it and sign it voluntarily as my own free act and deed; no oral representations, statements, or inducements, apart from the foregoing written agreement, have been made; I am at least eighteen (18) years of age and fully competent; and I execute this Release for full, adequate and complete consideration fully intending to be bound by same.

Signed on this day of __________, 2016.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2008 06:03 pm by Warren Platts »
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Jim

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #13 on: 08/31/2008 06:42 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.

WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT
FOR PURCHASE OF INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION




It can't be sold so the waiver is meaningless.  NASA can't sell it

Offline Jorge

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #14 on: 08/31/2008 07:20 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.

WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT
FOR PURCHASE OF INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION




It can't be sold so the waiver is meaningless.  NASA can't sell it

And even if it could, the waiver is insufficient. It needs to release/indemnify the contractors, subcontractors, and any other vendors. It also needs a more explicit indemnification of the US government for third-party liability on the ground in the event the buyer fails to maintain ISS and it experiences an uncontrolled reentry.

Good luck getting any insurance company to give you a quote on that, Warren.
JRF

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #15 on: 08/31/2008 08:21 pm »
During the early Freedom days, weren't they considering simply disassembling it in reverse order of assembly involving the same number of missions.

Offline Warren Platts

Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #16 on: 08/31/2008 08:47 pm »
During the early Freedom days, weren't they considering simply disassembling it in reverse order of assembly involving the same number of missions.
LOL
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Warren Platts

Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #17 on: 08/31/2008 08:50 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.

WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT
FOR PURCHASE OF INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION




It can't be sold so the waiver is meaningless.  NASA can't sell it
Are you saying that NASA, the agency, can't sell it, or that the United States of America, can't sell it (I'm referring only to the American sovereign territory within the ISS, of course.)
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Warren Platts

Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #18 on: 08/31/2008 08:52 pm »
Why not just give it away to someone who will convert it to a nice bed-and-breakfast?

Liability.

WAIVER OF LIABILITY AND HOLD HARMLESS AGREEMENT
FOR PURCHASE OF INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION




It can't be sold so the waiver is meaningless.  NASA can't sell it

And even if it could, the waiver is insufficient. It needs to release/indemnify the contractors, subcontractors, and any other vendors. It also needs a more explicit indemnification of the US government for third-party liability on the ground in the event the buyer fails to maintain ISS and it experiences an uncontrolled reentry.

Good luck getting any insurance company to give you a quote on that, Warren.
OK! Then hire a real lawyer to draft up the waiver! ;D
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Jim

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Re: ISS decommissioning
« Reply #19 on: 08/31/2008 08:54 pm »
OK! Then hire a real lawyer to draft up the waiver! ;D

can't because there is no waiver possible

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