Author Topic: Mars One Discussion Thread  (Read 453925 times)

Offline Alexsander

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: 06/05/2012 04:00 pm »
As to the effects of gravity at the surface of Mars, there are 2 ways to do it with arguments for either:  Build something near earth that simulates Mars gravity and test out health and strength of mice and men for a decade or so, or just do the mission and see what happens.  Like Dr. Bob, my preference is strongly toward the latter. 

Yes. If your intention is to send people to die on Mars, what's it matter what they die of? You get the information you need, right?

</germanaccent>

I bet there's a LOT of people in the world that would not mind to be BOTH the first human on Mars AND the first human to die in another planet.

Offline RanulfC

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4595
  • Heus tu Omnis! Vigilate Hoc!
  • Liked: 900
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: 06/05/2012 07:14 pm »
"Vee only missed out Mars landing site by 10-meters!"

"That's amazing!"

"Yes! It would have been more amazing if the vehicle hadn't stopped 10 meters below the surface!"

Duck-And-Cover!

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: 06/05/2012 10:56 pm »
I bet there's a LOT of people in the world that would not mind to be BOTH the first human on Mars AND the first human to die in another planet.

So what? It's unethical to experiment on humans without due care for their well being, even volunteers who know they will die. Don't you think there's people lining up to be infected with fatal diseases and experimented on in the hopes of finding a cure? We don't do it, because it's wrong.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline WmThomas

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • An objective space fan
  • Liked: 85
  • Likes Given: 5195
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: 06/06/2012 12:53 am »
First astronaut training 10 years before first flight and before any technology testing? Additionally, their timetable contains no unmanned technology demonstrator for landing, power production, life support, etc. The whole project looks more like a simple TV plot than a real adventure...

I am embarrassed for NasaSpaceflight.com. 

Go read about the proposal!

They plan to set most of the infrastructure on the planet unmanned and years ahead of first human landing. They also plan to produce lots of water through unmanned landers and rovers of the same type that the humans will use when they arrive.

I don't think they have much chance of raising sufficient funds (I estimate $2B minimum for the launch campaign through first human landing: cheap for what it is, but a ton of money for a TV show).

And there are no doubt other problems.

But please, folks, read their material before you shoot off at the mouth.
« Last Edit: 06/06/2012 12:55 am by WmThomas »

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: 06/06/2012 02:04 am »
So I went to the MarsOne website.  Just trying to catch up on this topic.

So the idea of this TV show is that they are going to outright fake a manned mission to Mars and use some easy to fabricate/utilize some accessible props (SpaceX red tag hardware) to maximize profits for the show?

Sounds about right.. complete with radiation poisoning of the cast. I, for one, can't wait to see Dutch actors die a slow death with no access to modern medical treatment. I always wondered why it was called "consumption", and now we'll finally see!

 ;D
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline mrmandias

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • US
  • Liked: 30
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: 06/06/2012 05:17 am »
I bet there's a LOT of people in the world that would not mind to be BOTH the first human on Mars AND the first human to die in another planet.

So what? It's unethical to experiment on humans without due care for their well being, even volunteers who know they will die. Don't you think there's people lining up to be infected with fatal diseases and experimented on in the hopes of finding a cure? We don't do it, because it's wrong.


Why?  Our policies on medical testing seem pretty ridiculous to me.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: 06/06/2012 05:29 am »
Why?  Our policies on medical testing seem pretty ridiculous to me.

Like many things in life, one can gain a sense of perspective by studying history.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 2238
  • Likes Given: 3883
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: 06/06/2012 07:01 am »
Link (with video) of the 'Mars One' settlement concept:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7040607/Plan-to-colonise-red-planet-by-2023
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline Alexsander

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: 06/06/2012 12:42 pm »
I bet there's a LOT of people in the world that would not mind to be BOTH the first human on Mars AND the first human to die in another planet.

So what? It's unethical to experiment on humans without due care for their well being, even volunteers who know they will die. Don't you think there's people lining up to be infected with fatal diseases and experimented on in the hopes of finding a cure? We don't do it, because it's wrong.

Remember Soyuz 11:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_11

Offline Alexsander

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: 06/06/2012 02:53 pm »
So I went to the MarsOne website.  Just trying to catch up on this topic.

So the idea of this TV show is that they are going to outright fake a manned mission to Mars and use some easy to fabricate/utilize some accessible props (SpaceX red tag hardware) to maximize profits for the show?

Sounds about right.. complete with radiation poisoning of the cast. I, for one, can't wait to see Dutch actors die a slow death with no access to modern medical treatment. I always wondered why it was called "consumption", and now we'll finally see!

 ;D

The whole radiation issue is very unknown. There are some places here on Earth with natural radiation levels above 70 mSv. I've seen estimates of 400-500 mSv for unshielded spacecraft away from Earth's belts. If a shield can reduce it to under 100 mSv it would be safe enough for a 6-12 months trip.

Offline apace

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 812
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: 06/06/2012 02:55 pm »
Go read about the proposal!

I read the proposal and I stay with my words. This proposal is about creating a TV series and not about settlement on another planet.

Offline gospacex

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3024
  • Liked: 543
  • Likes Given: 604
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: 06/06/2012 02:58 pm »
I bet there's a LOT of people in the world that would not mind to be BOTH the first human on Mars AND the first human to die in another planet.

So what? It's unethical to experiment on humans without due care for their well being, even volunteers who know they will die. Don't you think there's people lining up to be infected with fatal diseases and experimented on in the hopes of finding a cure? We don't do it, because it's wrong.

What is wrong is to tell other people what they should, or should not do with their own lives.

Some medical advances happened when doctors deliberately infected themselves and then tried experimental treatments.

Offline Alexsander

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: 06/06/2012 03:11 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar,_Mazandaran#Radioactivity

Quote
Some areas around Ramsar have the highest level of natural radioactivity in the world, due to the presence of radioactive hot springs. In the high-background radiation districts of Ramsar, the average dose of radiation received by a person for one year is about 10 mSv, and can reach levels in excess of 260 mSv.
(...)
This high level of radiation does not seem to have caused ill effects on the residents of the area and even possibly has made them slightly more radioresistant, which is puzzling and has been called "radiation paradox".

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 172
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: 06/06/2012 04:22 pm »
While I support the idea of a base on either the Moon or Mars even private settlements, I think permanent residents should be out. As creatures tied to the Earth, through natural evolution of our species, we don't know what the effects of long term stays aboard sealed vessels will do to us either physically or physiologically. I think unfortunately, the crew would go mad in the end being confined to small spaces with no open air sources. A large dome structure could solve this but for now bases with limited stays are the way to go. I like the idea in principle.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: 06/06/2012 10:28 pm »
What is wrong is to tell other people what they should, or should not do with their own lives.

Some medical advances happened when doctors deliberately infected themselves and then tried experimental treatments.

And when it is possible for someone to own their own spacecraft and go do anything in space, you might have an adequate analogy. Until then it is people on Earth sending others to their death.. in this case, for entertainment. There is no moral case for that.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: 06/07/2012 12:34 am »
And when it is possible for someone to own their own spacecraft and go do anything in space, you might have an adequate analogy. Until then it is people on Earth sending others to their death.. in this case, for entertainment. There is no moral case for that.
Was there a moral case for or against sending prisoners to Australia to eventually face their deaths? 

What about people who want to move to Australia and expect to eventually die there? 

What if people want to move to Australia but can't afford to; but  then someone agrees to pay for their tickets if they would just send back some photos of Australia?  Is that wrong too? 
« Last Edit: 06/07/2012 12:37 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline FinalFrontier

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4484
  • Space Watcher
  • Liked: 1330
  • Likes Given: 173
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: 06/07/2012 12:37 am »
What is wrong is to tell other people what they should, or should not do with their own lives.

Some medical advances happened when doctors deliberately infected themselves and then tried experimental treatments.

And when it is possible for someone to own their own spacecraft and go do anything in space, you might have an adequate analogy. Until then it is people on Earth sending others to their death.. in this case, for entertainment. There is no moral case for that.




So if people decided they want to go, on their own dime, lets say, the government should step in and forcibly prevent them?


Not what we do here in  America anyway, although of late it seems government has forgotten that hence the tense election year, but I digress.


My point is freedom is freedom you can't have it both ways. If people want a one way trip, let them go. I see no issue with this. I also don't see what would qualify you or anyone else to be the judge of what other free individuals should or should not do with their own lives.




As to the TV show idea I find that totally ridiculous but the solution to that is not to watch it ;)
« Last Edit: 06/07/2012 12:39 am by FinalFrontier »
3-30-2017: The start of a great future
"Live Long and Prosper"

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: 06/07/2012 01:04 am »
Was there a moral case for or against sending prisoners to Australia to eventually face their deaths? 

Umm.. almost all criminals sentenced to transportation on the first fleets were commuted from death sentences. Don't they teach that in school anymore?

Quote
What about people who want to move to Australia and expect to eventually die there? 

Death is not the point, health is.

Quote
What if people want to move to Australia but can't afford to; but  then someone agrees to pay for their tickets if they would just send back some photos of Australia?  Is that wrong too? 

I don't even know what you're talking about now.. if I pay you to go live in a nuclear reactor, and you agree, I'm in violation of a dozen workplace health and safety laws.. including radiation provisions. If you'd like to make a libertarian argument that the government should not get involved in our private transaction, I expect I'll be receptive to it. But if you want to make a moral argument, which is what we were talking about, then I think we'll quickly discover that we differ.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline go4mars

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Earth
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 3463
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: 06/07/2012 01:27 am »
Umm.. almost all criminals sentenced to transportation on the first fleets were commuted from death sentences. Don't they teach that in school anymore?
So you want us to send people who are awaiting execution of their death sentence? 

Death is not the point, health is.
What about sending a heroin addict with no heroin?  Or a terminally fat person with no potato chips?  Just time-released low-calorie healthy meals. 

if I pay you to go live in a nuclear reactor, and you agree, I'm in violation of a dozen workplace health and safety laws..
Would it be immoral if you bought my plane ticket in exchange for photos of poisonous snakes in Australia? (might get bit)  Or volcanoes? (might erupt) Or coral reefs? (might drown). 

If you'd like to make a libertarian argument that the government should not get involved in our private transaction, I expect I'll be receptive to it.
If I am king and call myself the government, is it moral for me to keep people from engaging in activities which place only themselves in possible danger? 
Is it my moral obligation to also outlaw skydiving?  Driving?  Those are worse because they place others at risk too.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2012 01:29 am by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Mars One Discussion Thread
« Reply #79 on: 06/07/2012 01:47 am »
Umm.. almost all criminals sentenced to transportation on the first fleets were commuted from death sentences. Don't they teach that in school anymore?
So you want us to send people who are awaiting execution of their death sentence? 

In the 18th century you might, but today we don't even consider that moral.

Quote
Death is not the point, health is.
What about sending a heroin addict with no heroin?  Or a terminally fat person with no potato chips?  Just time-released low-calorie healthy meals.

At least you're asking better questions. 

Quote
if I pay you to go live in a nuclear reactor, and you agree, I'm in violation of a dozen workplace health and safety laws..
Would it be immoral if you bought my plane ticket in exchange for photos of poisonous snakes in Australia? (might get bit)  Or volcanoes? (might erupt) Or coral reefs? (might drown). 

It's not a risk we're talking about here. If you send someone to Mars now, with no intention of bringing them back, they will die a horrible death from cancer, lack of medical care, etc, etc. I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise.

Quote
If you'd like to make a libertarian argument that the government should not get involved in our private transaction, I expect I'll be receptive to it.
If I am king and call myself the government, is it moral for me to keep people from engaging in activities which place only themselves in possible danger? 
Is it my moral obligation to also outlaw skydiving?  Driving?  Those are worse because they place others at risk too.

And you're back to making a fallacious analogy. We're not talking about whether or not it is moral for individuals to engage in risky activities of their own free will.. we're talking about sending people to Mars. When individuals can pay for it out of their own pocket and go for their own reasons, then they are in control of the circumstances under which they engage in the activity.

If you insist on making bad analogies, a more accurate one would be for a tv show to send people to jump out of airplanes without parachutes because they think it'll be a great spectacle. If they can find skydivers who are willing to do it because they really want to know what it feels like to crash into the earth at terminal velocity - and as every skydiver will tell you, it's entirely possible that you might not die! - then what's the problem? I expect there is a large segment of the Mars-one-way crowd who don't see one. I do.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2012 01:48 am by QuantumG »
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0