Author Topic: One-way trip to Mars??  (Read 12716 times)

Offline JAFO

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One-way trip to Mars??
« on: 09/04/2009 07:38 am »
Not sure about posting copyrighted material on the forum, but here's the link.

A One-Way Ticket to Mars
By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS
Published: August 31, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/opinion/01krauss.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

(I think in an election year there would be no shortage of volunteers...   ;D  )
« Last Edit: 09/04/2009 07:40 am by Envious »
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Offline khallow

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #1 on: 09/04/2009 12:38 pm »
I think the key problem from a planning point of view is that you commit yourself to some sort of support to that particular location on Mars for as long as the astronauts (and possibly their descendants, if we get really optimistic here) are alive. I know a bunch of people think that's a feature not a bug, but for an early mission, where you really don't have experience with living on Mars, it's a considerable open-ended obligation. And suppose it turns out to be a relatively uninteresting or arduous part of Mars? My view is that one-way trips should only start when some sort of settlement has already been established and most of the problems of living on Mars have been worked out.
Karl Hallowell

Offline William Barton

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #2 on: 09/04/2009 12:44 pm »
I think the key problem from a planning point of view is that you commit yourself to some sort of support to that particular location on Mars for as long as the astronauts (and possibly their descendants, if we get really optimistic here) are alive. I know a bunch of people think that's a feature not a bug, but for an early mission, where you really don't have experience with living on Mars, it's a considerable open-ended obligation. And suppose it turns out to be a relatively uninteresting or arduous part of Mars? My view is that one-way trips should only start when some sort of settlement has already been established and most of the problems of living on Mars have been worked out.


The solution to that problem is actually mentioned in the article: send geezers. A mixed crew of 65-year-old scientists aren't going to generate very many descendants, nor require an especially long obligation. Few of them will complain later on. I'll go.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #3 on: 09/04/2009 12:47 pm »
Geezers and babes.... now there's an idea...
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline cgrunska

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #4 on: 09/04/2009 03:44 pm »
would the lower gravity and atmosphere and such actually prolong the geezer scientists' lives?

has there been any study into the effect on longevity of humans by gravity, atmosphere, different percentage of oxygen/nitrogen?

Offline 8900

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #5 on: 09/05/2009 05:28 am »
how much infrastructure and physical investment will be required before human can form permanent settlement on Mars? Remember Mars is very hostile environment to human and any higher organisms, and the great distance between Mars and Earth means that resupply from Earth can only be delivered every 2 years.

Offline gin455res

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #6 on: 09/05/2009 06:19 am »
If you include relay satellites in your plan, you still have the ability to tele-operate rovers and machines, you learn a great deal about operations, and test lots of new technology, which would  reduce many of the risks  of  subsequent missions  even if they were to  other areas of the surface.


 
I think the key problem from a planning point of view is that you commit yourself to some sort of support to that particular location on Mars for as long as the astronauts (and possibly their descendants, if we get really optimistic here) are alive. I know a bunch of people think that's a feature not a bug, but for an early mission, where you really don't have experience with living on Mars, it's a considerable open-ended obligation. And suppose it turns out to be a relatively uninteresting or arduous part of Mars? My view is that one-way trips should only start when some sort of settlement has already been established and most of the problems of living on Mars have been worked out.


Offline mlorrey

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #7 on: 09/06/2009 12:30 am »
how much infrastructure and physical investment will be required before human can form permanent settlement on Mars? Remember Mars is very hostile environment to human and any higher organisms, and the great distance between Mars and Earth means that resupply from Earth can only be delivered every 2 years.

VASIMR powered ships are not restricted thusly, they don't rely on a Hohmann transfer window. With a nuke powered VASIMR, you can send resupply as frequently as you need to and can afford to.
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #8 on: 09/07/2009 01:58 am »
Why do I have feeling this would be the equiv. to volunteering to spend the rest of ones life in a VW bug?  Seriously, the cheapest way to maintain these "victims" would be a one way supply flight each two year window. How many people can be kept alive on the supplies boosted by a Delta IV heavy each window?

If we don't have the mass budget to bring people back, we don't have the mass budget to give them mcMansion's on mars. It is gonna be tight.
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Offline kkattula

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #9 on: 09/07/2009 06:26 am »
Semi one way trips.  Plan to return limited numbers, (also equipment and science samples), after several years when ISRU and other facilities have been developed.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #10 on: 09/07/2009 02:31 pm »
My first impression is that during the launch window, we might make a dozen launches.  Might need to make some more pads.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline William Barton

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #11 on: 09/07/2009 02:34 pm »
Geezers and babes.... now there's an idea...

Careful, we're approaching the "mine shaft gap!" 8-)

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #12 on: 09/07/2009 02:42 pm »
Huh?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline AlexInOklahoma

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #13 on: 09/07/2009 04:18 pm »
I assume it means a relation to this movie/scene, which I reference from a Wiki article:

The whole idea of a missile gap was parodied in the 1964 film Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb in which a Doomsday device is built by the Soviets because they had read in The New York Times that the U.S. was working along similar lines and wanted to avoid a "Doomsday Gap". Also in the movie, the President of the United States is warned by his generals against allowing a "mine shaft gap" to develop when the idea of moving people of the world into safety in mine shafts is being decided upon

The above copy/pasted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_gap (OK to paste from Wiki, I hope!)

Not sure of the relevance, but its what a quick Gooling found ->  ????

Alex

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #14 on: 09/08/2009 02:06 am »
Huh?

Actually both lines are from the movie. It is a classic that I assumed was required watching before posting ;)
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Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #15 on: 09/08/2009 04:55 pm »
If you had said that it's time to go to "ridiculous" speed, I woulda known what your were talking about!  Gasp!  I've totally blanked out on Dr. Strangelove....
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline dmeche

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #16 on: 09/09/2009 05:11 pm »
Regarding the idea of “one way” colonist to any destination in space, I think that would be a desperate measure for the beginning stages of exploration.  If you have volunteers that are ready to go AND the infrastructure to support them then one way colonies would be a more viable option.  Let’s remember that the colonist who first came to North America from Europe brought with them only tools and a few live stock to live off the land.  They did not have to transport the food, air, and water.  If you are transporting enough infrastructures to make the lives of the colonist comfortable then would not that expense be just as useful in crew rotation?

What do the members here think about families going to the Moon or Mars on a one way trip?  Let’s say there is a large comfortable base there able to support 20 people.  If five married couples could be found with the necessary disciplines and training, would it be a good idea to send them and their children?

Offline cgrunska

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #17 on: 09/09/2009 09:42 pm »
i think after a few years we'd find that they all killed each other and the moon base is haunted. This scenario would likely increase in chance and speed up on Mars, since you can't see the earth or moon at all.

Offline grakenverb

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #18 on: 09/09/2009 10:07 pm »
i think after a few years we'd find that they all killed each other and the moon base is haunted. This scenario would likely increase in chance and speed up on Mars, since you can't see the earth or moon at all.

I was thinking along the lines of Fletcher Christian and Pitcairn Island..........  Hmmmm, screenplay, anyone?
« Last Edit: 09/09/2009 10:07 pm by grakenverb »

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: One-way trip to Mars??
« Reply #19 on: 09/10/2009 05:32 pm »
At least on the Moon, you're three days away, which Zubrin virtually dismisses.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

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