IMO... BOTH the KELLY C & NRC QUEST's are pulling JRTI. USCG on Sunday indicated a small craft advisory with winds up to 25 mph. Tracking both ships history indicates they departed at the same time and from the same location, west of Mexico, South of San Diego. They should track the inner channel between Catalina and the coast. Might be visible from my home in coastal South OC.
any live feeds in the area?
Quote from: dorkmo on 06/28/2017 04:21 pmany live feeds in the area?Port of LA live stream is here But do not know if we will see JTRI on it.~5.3 NM out now.
Local leaders hope it won’t be the last time a SpaceX rocket docks at the AltaSea marine research facility across the street from Cabrillo Marina.
NRC Quest docked.KELLY C now ~ 1.5 NM out, coming in at 3.7 kts.Wish someone had a camera there to welcome them....
Welcome home!! #spacex #falcon9 @CBSLA @KNX1070 #sanpedro
Coming across the flats. #Falcon9 headed to dock.
The @SpaceX booster photo gallery is up! She rolled into Port of LA at about noon on Just Read the Instructions: http://photos.dailybreeze.com/2017/06/photos-spacex-falcon-9-booster-towed-into-port-of-los-angeles-after-iridium-2-launch/#1
http://photos.dailybreeze.com/2017/06/photos-spacex-falcon-9-booster-towed-into-port-of-los-angeles-after-iridium-2-launch/#1In this particular picture, you can really see how close the bells are to the ground. Usually, you can almost walk right under them!
Quote from: tvg98 on 06/28/2017 11:26 pmhttp://photos.dailybreeze.com/2017/06/photos-spacex-falcon-9-booster-towed-into-port-of-los-angeles-after-iridium-2-launch/#1In this particular picture, you can really see how close the bells are to the ground. Usually, you can almost walk right under them!It is possible that this is a tweaked leg design that allows more piston compression. Both of the last two landings settled this low, so it is a possible explanation.
It would make a lot of sense for SpaceX to design the legs to have the back end of the first stage closer to the deck of the drone ship if possible. Most of the mass of the rocket is - presumably - in the engines and octoweb. Having the center of gravity even slightly closer to the deck would make the stage more stable, particularly in rough seas.
Close-up of returning grid fins from Matt Hartman's flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/81789298@N05/sets
Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/29/2017 01:30 amClose-up of returning grid fins from Matt Hartman's flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/81789298@N05/setsAre you sure those are the same?? They look like they did before launch...
And I thought I heard that over time they would take on kind of a golden patina from oxidation...
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 06/29/2017 02:40 amAnd I thought I heard that over time they would take on kind of a golden patina from oxidation...Wasn't it titanium nitrate that us golden? Anyhow, not sure about the patina. If the soot from the reentry and landing burns is not cleaned, probably not. If the soot is cleaned away, it could easily scape off a thin titanium oxide or nitrate layer. Like you, I am hopeful they turn golden over time, would look neat :-)
Padres No Hitter ⚾️ @PadresNoHitter 2m2 minutes ago@SpaceX #Falcon9 first stage that launched @IridiumComm 11-20 satellites arrived in port today. Just amazing to see. #spacex #iridiumnext
The latest launch was barely recoverable. We'll have to see what happens nect. (It was a very heavy satellite.)
Wow, not even the falcon logo smeared! So was this just a lower-energy entry, or is part of the wear seen in the interstage (eg on BulgariaSat) due to grid fin SPAM and Al burning off? Perhaps hot particles of spam and Al hit the interstage and sand it down?
Quote from: ulm_atms on 06/29/2017 01:43 amQuote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/29/2017 01:30 amClose-up of returning grid fins from Matt Hartman's flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/81789298@N05/setsAre you sure those are the same?? They look like they did before launch... As they should, right? And I thought I heard that over time they would take on kind of a golden patina from oxidation...
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 06/29/2017 02:40 amQuote from: ulm_atms on 06/29/2017 01:43 amQuote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/29/2017 01:30 amClose-up of returning grid fins from Matt Hartman's flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/81789298@N05/setsAre you sure those are the same?? They look like they did before launch... As they should, right? And I thought I heard that over time they would take on kind of a golden patina from oxidation...That was a joke And supposedly they should get more golden as heat + oxygen = oxidation which should increase it's temperature limit over time. Also, their cleaning should be like cast iron cookware...which is basically, don't clean them. Don't want to scrub that oxidation off.On a slightly off-topic question... I searched around but couldn't find what I was looking for. Does anyone know or have a very educated guess as to how much an aluminum fin costs to make compared to the titanium fin? I know it is quite a bit more (otherwise SpaceX would have used that from day 1) but I have just not seen a $ figure, just a 4X or 7X more type answer.
Pure titanium bar stock appears to be going for about $30 per kg compared to about $2 per kg for aircraft grade aluminum.
What is the cool patch for? Anyone?John
official uniform for the ASDS drivers
Quote from: ulm_atms on 06/29/2017 11:54 pmQuote from: Coastal Ron on 06/29/2017 02:40 amQuote from: ulm_atms on 06/29/2017 01:43 amQuote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/29/2017 01:30 amClose-up of returning grid fins from Matt Hartman's flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/81789298@N05/setsAre you sure those are the same?? They look like they did before launch... As they should, right? And I thought I heard that over time they would take on kind of a golden patina from oxidation...That was a joke And supposedly they should get more golden as heat + oxygen = oxidation which should increase it's temperature limit over time. Also, their cleaning should be like cast iron cookware...which is basically, don't clean them. Don't want to scrub that oxidation off.On a slightly off-topic question... I searched around but couldn't find what I was looking for. Does anyone know or have a very educated guess as to how much an aluminum fin costs to make compared to the titanium fin? I know it is quite a bit more (otherwise SpaceX would have used that from day 1) but I have just not seen a $ figure, just a 4X or 7X more type answer.If I understood Elon's tweet from before the launch they are casting the titanium fins and then machining them to spec. I'd guess that they used a similar process for the aluminum fins. The titanium fins are slightly larger, maybe 20%? The machining work is probably more complicated because of scalloped edges, but is surely being done by CNC machines so it's just time on machine not more labor. That seems like a wash with adding SPAM to the Al fins. I can't recall seeing a weight estimate for the fins, but the cost for each should be reasonably approximated by weight per fin times cost of material plus maybe 10% for manufacturing costs? Pure titanium bar stock appears to be going for about $30 per kg compared to about $2 per kg for aircraft grade aluminum. I'm sure they can buy it cheaper at the quantities they are using but the cost difference should be reflected primarily in the cost difference of the material itself. Anybody got an estimate of grid fin weight?Somebody feel free to correct me if my facts or logic is flawed.
Cutting Aluminum with carbide. 1000 Surface Feet/ minute. Chip load would be about .002 per toothCutting Titanium 250 SF/minute. .0015/toothThe new grid fins are bigger so I'm guessing 6 times longer to machine.
I assume SpaceX would cut the grid fins in house. They could be cut on a $80K Haas 3 axis, or a $1,000,000 Makino 5 axis. Lots of variables. The machine could be setup to cut unmanned or not. SpaceX will reuse them many times so the upfront additional cost is probably meaningless.
IIRC they said the fins are forged, not cast.
Flying with larger & significantly upgraded hypersonic grid fins. Single piece cast & cut titanium. Can take reentry heat with no shielding.
Quote from: meekGee on 06/30/2017 02:31 amIIRC they said the fins are forged, not cast.Elon said forged when he first mentioned going to titanium but tweeted this prior to the launch.QuoteFlying with larger & significantly upgraded hypersonic grid fins. Single piece cast & cut titanium. Can take reentry heat with no shielding.
Quote from: cppetrie on 06/30/2017 02:45 amQuote from: meekGee on 06/30/2017 02:31 amIIRC they said the fins are forged, not cast.Elon said forged when he first mentioned going to titanium but tweeted this prior to the launch.QuoteFlying with larger & significantly upgraded hypersonic grid fins. Single piece cast & cut titanium. Can take reentry heat with no shielding.hmmm.... Cast, then forged, then milled? Not unheard off...But the "signature move" in such a sequence will be the forging.
Quote from: meekGee on 06/30/2017 04:23 amQuote from: cppetrie on 06/30/2017 02:45 amQuote from: meekGee on 06/30/2017 02:31 amIIRC they said the fins are forged, not cast.Elon said forged when he first mentioned going to titanium but tweeted this prior to the launch.QuoteFlying with larger & significantly upgraded hypersonic grid fins. Single piece cast & cut titanium. Can take reentry heat with no shielding.hmmm.... Cast, then forged, then milled? Not unheard off...But the "signature move" in such a sequence will be the forging.Forging never made much sense to me for a structure with that depth and with that many holes in it. Forging is better for bending/molding stock material into complicated but mostly solid shapes or bending sheets into intricate shapes. Cut outs in flat stock work fine too, but this has significant depth to it. Casting always seemed like the way to go. Melt metal. Pour into mold of rough shape. Machine to final shape. Heat treat if needed. Done.
May be I'm missing something obvious, but I wonder why mill forged titan? What would be gained by doing it?otherwise, by milling, you just remove most of what you just forged...
Quote from: schaban on 06/30/2017 11:11 amMay be I'm missing something obvious, but I wonder why mill forged titan? What would be gained by doing it?otherwise, by milling, you just remove most of what you just forged...It would only be finish machining. Forge to 99%* of final specs and machine the last 1%*.* percentages are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to represent actual percentages although I would guess they are decent approximations.
Thank you. Didn't realized that not all surfaces could be forged
Quote from: schaban on 06/30/2017 01:17 pmThank you. Didn't realized that not all surfaces could be forgedDidn't Elon say it was cast and machine finished? Is there some doubt? Casting should be plenty strong for this application.John
Didn't realize that the booster ended up on the Port of Los Angeles Live Stream youtube channel after all Nothing exciting going on at the moment, but it's relaxing to have it up on a window on the side of my ultra-wide monitor .
Quote from: Chris_Pi on 06/30/2017 07:12 pmLooks like they've figured out just what the aluminum fins will put up with. And almost found out if the stage can tolerate losing a fin midflight.And really demonstrated why they needed to transition to the Titanium ones which still look brand new after flight.
Looks like they've figured out just what the aluminum fins will put up with. And almost found out if the stage can tolerate losing a fin midflight.
Quote from: livingjw on 06/30/2017 08:10 pmQuote from: schaban on 06/30/2017 01:17 pmThank you. Didn't realized that not all surfaces could be forgedDidn't Elon say it was cast and machine finished? Is there some doubt? Casting should be plenty strong for this application.JohnHe said both. Earlier he called them "largest Ti forging". Since casting can be very large, I think he did mean "forge"
Quote from: meekGee on 06/30/2017 11:46 pmQuote from: livingjw on 06/30/2017 08:10 pmQuote from: schaban on 06/30/2017 01:17 pmThank you. Didn't realized that not all surfaces could be forgedDidn't Elon say it was cast and machine finished? Is there some doubt? Casting should be plenty strong for this application.JohnHe said both. Earlier he called them "largest Ti forging". Since casting can be very large, I think he did mean "forge"I assume that this is contracted out? It seems unlikely that SpaceX are suddenly world class titanium forgers, but perhaps this is a capability they need.
Quote from: Lars-J on 06/30/2017 11:59 pmI assume that this is contracted out? It seems unlikely that SpaceX are suddenly world class titanium forgers, but perhaps this is a capability they need.My guess is yes, contracted.
I assume that this is contracted out? It seems unlikely that SpaceX are suddenly world class titanium forgers, but perhaps this is a capability they need.
Sorry, this is way off topic.. Just a random thought. Could the grid fins be 3D printed in the future?
Quote from: meekGee on 07/01/2017 12:00 amQuote from: Lars-J on 06/30/2017 11:59 pmI assume that this is contracted out? It seems unlikely that SpaceX are suddenly world class titanium forgers, but perhaps this is a capability they need.My guess is yes, contracted.This is one of the advantages of working in the LA area - there are very competent shops for working with all sorts of materials relatively nearby. Caltech, and I presume the other schools in the area, had an excellent internal machine shop, but no one shop can cover all needs. When they needed a part they could not make themselves, they would contract it out, and were quite impressed with the expertise they could find (for a price, of course).
Turns out that Titanium itself is really cheap right now. I know the vast majority of the costs are machining costs, but it still helps that Titanium is $3.50/kg right now instead of 10x that.
Arnt a lot of titanium landing gear parts made in russia? Thats the biggest mass produced titanium object i can think of...
Quote from: dorkmo on 07/01/2017 02:44 amArnt a lot of titanium landing gear parts made in russia? Thats the biggest mass produced titanium object i can think of...Actually the billet we ended up using, IIRC, came from a reserve that was set up for the landing gear of the SST, believe it or not.Who'd have thunk..
Quote from: meekGee on 07/01/2017 06:15 amQuote from: dorkmo on 07/01/2017 02:44 amArnt a lot of titanium landing gear parts made in russia? Thats the biggest mass produced titanium object i can think of...Actually the billet we ended up using, IIRC, came from a reserve that was set up for the landing gear of the SST, believe it or not.Who'd have thunk..Quick link to the whole SST titanium issue, then I'll be strictly on-topic. http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-titanium-gambit-3804526/
Quote from: Robotbeat on 07/01/2017 01:04 amTurns out that Titanium itself is really cheap right now. I know the vast majority of the costs are machining costs, but it still helps that Titanium is $3.50/kg right now instead of 10x that.Is that for pure titanium? Or titanium ore? I found that price the other day for ore but refined titanium was substantially more expensive. They would be using 99+% pure titanium to make these grid fins.
Youre right, I was wrong.
Just visited Mr. @Falcon9_rocket and @JRTIDroneShip PART 1
@FalconGridFin got removed (PART 2)
Quote@FalconGridFin got removed (PART 2)https://twitter.com/slc4_lz2/status/881327574693011456
Welcome back, #Falcon9! Cannot believe how close I am standing to this rocket right now. She is beautiful! 😍🚀🌅💕 #SpaceX #LosAngeles
Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 07/02/2017 02:12 amQuote@FalconGridFin got removed (PART 2)https://twitter.com/slc4_lz2/status/881327574693011456Hmm, with the grid fins gone, it looks like it's about to make a long, cross-country trek rather than go right back to Hawthorne.
It's all in the details. 🚀🔥#SpaceX #Falcon9
At least three leg pistons removed.
Quote from: old_sellsword on 06/30/2017 01:24 pmAt least three leg pistons removed.Does that represent a change in operations from how the legs were removed previously? I seem to recall that in the past the whole leg was taken off and then closed up. As opposed to the piston being removed while still leaving the exterior frames attached. Or am I just mistaken/misremembering?