Author Topic: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars  (Read 7157 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #40 on: 05/03/2017 05:41 AM »
Constellation.
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #41 on: 05/03/2017 07:36 AM »
Musk:
Quote
And I should say also that the main reason I'm personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this.

"this" is colonization. The whole shebang. Not the initial transport. That's just a small part of the puzzle. I'm in the camp that believes as SpaceX ratchets up, as each flight grows their capability and fixed plant/assets and people, and bank account, that they'll do ITS itself almost wholly internally. The upper stage raptor money might possibly be the only government money invested. At all. And that is at 2:1, SpaceX puts up twice as much.

I don't think there is the slightest evidence that SpaceX will be able to do this internally.  It's just wishful thinking.
Plus, as seen above, it's obviously not what Musk says himself.

No argument from me. Although is does play somewhat disingenuously on this issue depending on the crowd. Unfortunately quite a lot of the fanbois and fangirrls do think that SpaceX will be able to go to Mars internally..
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #42 on: 05/03/2017 09:50 AM »
Musk:
Quote
And I should say also that the main reason I'm personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this.

"this" is colonization. The whole shebang. Not the initial transport. That's just a small part of the puzzle. I'm in the camp that believes as SpaceX ratchets up, as each flight grows their capability and fixed plant/assets and people, and bank account, that they'll do ITS itself almost wholly internally. The upper stage raptor money might possibly be the only government money invested. At all. And that is at 2:1, SpaceX puts up twice as much.

I don't think there is the slightest evidence that SpaceX will be able to do this internally.  It's just wishful thinking.
Plus, as seen above, it's obviously not what Musk says himself.

No argument from me. Although is does play somewhat disingenuously on this issue depending on the crowd. Unfortunately quite a lot of the fanbois and fangirrls do think that SpaceX will be able to go to Mars internally..
Fanbois is an ad hominem. Also, how do you know that Musk is being disingenuous? Do you think the plan is finalized and carved in stone?  Because I never got the impression they worked out all the details yet.

I think they'll fund it however they can.  Internally, ComX, sell TSLA stock, ask Larry Page for a couple billion, random philanthropists, steal underwear, what ever it takes. I'm sure they'd love some government money if they can convince any governments to fork some over.

Musk recently indicated he'll make a new announcement soon and that it includes "better" ideas on the funding. I expect that to happen several times over the next 5 years.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Online mike robel

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #43 on: 05/03/2017 10:54 AM »
If Tyson really meant he doubts humans will ever walk on Mars, I believe he is fundamentally mistaken and underestimating our ability to go places within the solar system.  We did reach the moon, you know.  On the other hand, colonization is a much different matter.  It is a long journey and logistically challenging.

The past's great explorations didn't start because people wanted to see what was on the other side.  They started and were sustained by Europe's need for resources and were funded by governments.  They wanted to find a faster way to India so they could get goods faster, but when they "discovered" America instead, there were two continents pretty much free for the taking due to the technological superiority of the New World, helped by unintentional biological warfare, and the ruthless harvesting of the environment to send raw materials back to the Old World.  Once the extent of the resources was realized, trading companies formed, established colonies, and you know the rest, enabling others to come for different reasons and sustain new colonies.

But, after the discovery of the New World in 1492, it took until 1565 for the Spanish to establish the first European city in America -- 73 years.  The English didn't establish a successful colony until 1607 - 115 years. While the cutting edge technology was primitive compared to today, I can easily see it taking that long to establish a sizeable Martian Colony because space travel is inherently less effective/efficient than sea travel even back then, especially since the New World offered free land, air, water, and food once explorers/reconnaissance parties got there.

Insofar as we know, Mars has no resources able to be sent profitably back Earth and therefor the price to pay for stuff to be sent to Mars can be as expensive as the suppliers want.  Profit, at least at first, will all be one sided.  Sure, there will be a trade in some luxury, novelty items, but even Musk has said words to the effect of if high grade cocaine was on the surface of Mars, it wouldn't be cost effective to send back.

Mars does have resources that over time can probably make a colony self-sustaining, but only after a long period of development and still needing Earth imports.  Even some New World colonies died for lack of knowledge, application, and slow resupply, so why should Mars be any different?  Japan, for all of its technological and financial success, still has to import nearly all of its raw materials.

How long will it take to become self-sufficient?  How will they raise money to fund resupply?   I don't think the colonization effort can be funded by people paying the median price for a house per person, nor will supplying launch services for other projects, or other industries set up to channel additional revenue to this effort.

Over the near term (the next 50 years or so) I see are Mars research stations similar to those in the Antarctic.  Antarctic stations funded largely by the government,  are not self-sustainable, only produce knowledge, do not offer anything to offer in trade, have free air and water, but are largely cut off from the rest of the world during the southern winter.  The waters around the continent produce foodstuffs and the small, but active tourist industry, does not supply any funds to them either.

The effort, useful, massive and challenging, is easy compared to Mars and still much like the initial New World outposts and colonies.

Perhaps 25 - 50 years after an initial Martian outpost is established, we may see other growth possible because of things like 3D printing to enable advanced structures, production of the machinery and other tools needed to produce the other needed items, preparation of the Martian regolith to support farming,  and other biological advances enabling us to grow food and not have to send animals and plants to Mars.

Since there are always surprises, maybe something wondrous will be discovered on Mars (or close enough to Mars) that dramatically changes the logistics of the situation.  (Transporters maybe.  :)



Offline pippin

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #44 on: 05/03/2017 12:40 PM »
Do you think the plan is finalized and carved in stone?  Because I never got the impression they worked out all the details yet.

I think that's the important point here.
A lot of people tend to believe in grand plans that are being carried out over decades, a lot like the moon landing.

But in 99% of the cases it's nothing like that. You've got a vision about where you want to go and then you start figuring out the details and pretty much every bit of plan tends to change on the way.

And this is a good approach.

Unfortunately, in cases like this where funds on the scale of the GDP of average countries are involved, this process usually isn't a very fast one. Because such funds are neither raised nor spent quickly.

And then we no longer talk about landing on Mars in 2024 and discussing options to speed things up to make it during Trump's first term, then we talk 2030's or 2040's or even later. And a lot can happen till then.
And that's what I take away from NdGT's statements.

Online Lar

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #45 on: 05/03/2017 12:46 PM »
(mod hat) Use "fanboi" (that particular spelling) again where I see it? == Deleted post. If you don't understand why, use Google to search for it.

(fan boy hat) You guys are wrong. As long as you are just wrong but stay out of the way and let Musk fail (as you know he will)  you'll get no further argument. But if you keep the Alabama Mafia pushing that rocket to nowhere, I'll argue against you strenuously.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2017 12:50 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline pippin

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #46 on: 05/03/2017 01:27 PM »
Out of serious curiosity:

(fan boy hat) You guys are wrong. As long as you are just wrong but stay out of the way and let Musk fail (as you know he will)  you'll get no further argument.

As a fan boy: what would you consider "failure" for Musk?

Just asking because I (not considering myself a fan boy) would think he has already achieved way too much WRT spaceflight to be considered a failure no matter what happens going forward.
But would it be "failure" if he didn't reach Mars during his lifetime? Or if SpaceX sends people to Mars but can't establish a colony? Or if it only happens on government contract?
What's a fan boy definition of 'success' vs. 'failure' for Musk?

I'd really, really like to know (is there a thread about this?).
« Last Edit: 05/03/2017 01:28 PM by pippin »

Online Lar

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #47 on: 05/03/2017 01:35 PM »
Dunno if there's a specific thread for "what is overall failure or success for Musk"... We could move it there if someone found one.

I've written about this on Quora (just look up Larry Pieniazek answers if you like). I was specifically referring to "ITS can't be funded mostly internally, and fans are dreaming to think so" when I said let him fail or succeed.  I happen to think he'll succeed, but other think he'll fail at THAT. That's fine.

By any sane metric Musk is a huge success already.... Multibillionaire, and so successful that even if he died today, he has had a profound impact on our reality. EVERY car maker is now doing electrics and some are taking it super seriously as they see their lunch eaten. We know now that first stage reuse is possible, although it's not yet certain that it's economic (but that's the way to bet, the trend shows pretty clearly they are going to make boatloads of cash at this).

Anyone wholly reasonable would call him a huge success already.

But Musk? Himself?  He isn't sane. Isn't reasonable. (in a good way)  HIS metric for success?  We're an interplanetary species with a thriving, growing, self supporting presence off earth, and we stopped depending on fossil fuels, replacing our dependence on them with renewables and nuclear. (at least those two... there may be more, like direct brain interfaces to talk to strong AI that loves us rather than hates us... he's ambitious). Anything short of that, like where we are now? Failure. But there's still time to succeed.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2017 01:36 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online guckyfan

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #48 on: 05/03/2017 01:58 PM »
I am not sure about the exact wording. But Elon Musk said something like even if SpaceX becomes a huge financial success, if they can not do full and rapid reuse and bring cost down by orders of magnitude he will considere it failed. It was a long time ago when SpaceX was still new and shaky.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #49 on: 05/03/2017 02:04 PM »
Even if he can't get ITS built immediately (like within 8-10 years), if he pours all his profits from the launch business into building ITS, he may be able to go it alone, but over 20 years.  The other side of the coin, he may eventually decide to downsize ITS, to fit the 12 million lb limit of the flame trench at 39a to launch a 10-12 million lb mini-its and do Mars on a lower scale, just to show it can be done. 

A 12 million lb launcher with say 27 raptors instead of 42, still go 12m for future 42 and a stretch.  A mini-ITS say to carry 50 tons or 50 people to Mars instead of 100.  Also, maybe go even further and use aluminum on the tanks instead of composite.  I know it would take a hit payload wise, but there should be no birthing problems.  Change the tanks out later for payload increase. 

Falcon 9 was evolutionary.  Start with a less capable booster, less capable ITS, and evolve from there, like Falcon.  Use existing infrastructure as much as possible for even less expense.  JUST GET TO MARS. 

I think if he gets there, NASA and the rest of the world will want to follow.  Then it gets serious. 

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #50 on: 05/04/2017 02:09 AM »
(mod hat) Use "fanboi" (that particular spelling) again where I see it? == Deleted post. If you don't understand why, use Google to search for it.

(fan boy hat) You guys are wrong. As long as you are just wrong but stay out of the way and let Musk fail (as you know he will)  you'll get no further argument. But if you keep the Alabama Mafia pushing that rocket to nowhere, I'll argue against you strenuously.

You have lost your objectivity here Lar.  I am not going to "get out of the way".  Firstly I am not "in the way".  Secondly, I work daily in Mars research, so I am not going to stop just because tell me to. if you you can't except constructive criticism of the SpaceX cult then the problem is yours, not mine. Fifthly, here is a useful description of "fanboi" A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company..  See https://www.techopedia.com/definition/28754/fanboi.  Lastly, I have reported your post.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2017 02:20 AM by Dalhousie »
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Online Lar

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #51 on: 05/04/2017 03:00 AM »
(mod hat) Use "fanboi" (that particular spelling) again where I see it? == Deleted post. If you don't understand why, use Google to search for it.

(fan boy hat) You guys are wrong. As long as you are just wrong but stay out of the way and let Musk fail (as you know he will)  you'll get no further argument. But if you keep the Alabama Mafia pushing that rocket to nowhere, I'll argue against you strenuously.

You have lost your objectivity here Lar.  I am not going to "get out of the way".  Firstly I am not "in the way".  Secondly, I work daily in Mars research, so I am not going to stop just because tell me to. if you you can't except constructive criticism of the SpaceX cult then the problem is yours, not mine. Fifthly, here is a useful description of "fanboi" A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company..  See https://www.techopedia.com/definition/28754/fanboi.  Lastly, I have reported your post.

I have no objection to the term fanboy, and the connotation it carries. Nor do I have any issue with criticism, constructive or otherwise. I think you didn't take my point, I apologise if I wasn't clear... criticise all you want. But what Tyson is doing isn't helpful. Your criticism is founded in understanding of SpaceX. His isn't.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #52 on: 05/04/2017 03:20 AM »
(mod hat) Use "fanboi" (that particular spelling) again where I see it? == Deleted post. If you don't understand why, use Google to search for it.

(fan boy hat) You guys are wrong. As long as you are just wrong but stay out of the way and let Musk fail (as you know he will)  you'll get no further argument. But if you keep the Alabama Mafia pushing that rocket to nowhere, I'll argue against you strenuously.

You have lost your objectivity here Lar.  I am not going to "get out of the way".  Firstly I am not "in the way".  Secondly, I work daily in Mars research, so I am not going to stop just because tell me to. if you you can't except constructive criticism of the SpaceX cult then the problem is yours, not mine. Fifthly, here is a useful description of "fanboi" A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company..  See https://www.techopedia.com/definition/28754/fanboi.  Lastly, I have reported your post.

I have no objection to the term fanboy, and the connotation it carries. Nor do I have any issue with criticism, constructive or otherwise. I think you didn't take my point, I apologise if I wasn't clear... criticise all you want. But what Tyson is doing isn't helpful. Your criticism is founded in understanding of SpaceX. His isn't.

No worries and much appreciated!

I've got back over what Tyson said and, while I am no fan of his for many reasons (and I have actually interacted with him on things martian) I don't think his quote actually says what the IP says it says.

Quote
What do you see as the most important venture in space exploration right now?

I like that there's a desire to want to send people to Mars. I have my scepticism about how and when that will happen, but I will not stand in their way because somebody's got to dream like that....

The money. To go to Mars because you want to, my reading of history says that doesn't work. We didn't go to the Moon because we wanted to....  war and economics are the big drivers of major expenditures.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/neil-degrasse-tyson-welcome-to-the-universe
[/quote]

I take from this the following:

1) He applauds the desire to go.

2) He is sceptical about the ways and timelines proposed.

3) He doesn't think the drivers of national strategy ("war") and commerce ("economics") are sufficient.

Point 1) shows he supports the general; idea. Point 2) is that he is sceptical of some of the ways and time lines, which is reasonable.  Most of us are sceptical of at least some of the ways and timelines proposed to date! Point 3 is that he is sceptical that the two big drivers of large scale space endeavours past and present are sufficient.  Based on what we currently know he has a point regarding settling Mars, though perhaps not with respect to exploration and science.

"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Online Lar

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #53 on: 05/04/2017 03:55 AM »
Fair.

He's missing that this is not going to be driven by the old factors.. .instead, it's going to be driven by... manifest destiny, for want of a better word. These billionaires are gambling that they will be a forcing function that forces the economics to happen. If they're right, if it works... it's going to be spectacular. They're betting on the New World, writ large.

If it fails it will be a spectacular crater.


"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #54 on: 05/04/2017 01:18 PM »
His argument is predicated on the assumption that a manned Mars mission would exceed the current NASA HSF budget by a wide margin,

Where did he say that?

How else do you interpret "The money. To go to Mars because you want to, my reading of history says that doesn't work. We didn't go to the Moon because we wanted to. We may remember it that way, because it serves a certain self-image we're Americans, we're explorers, it's in our DNA, so we went to the Moon. That's just assuming it's a thing you do, without asking what's driving this, what's allocating the money for this?"?

He didn't say it had to be government money.  He's asking what motivation is there to go to Mars that would justify the cost.  In the past, very large expenditures like this have had to be government money because there's no profit in doing it privately.  There's plenty of private money available for ventures of this size, but there has to be a sound, usually economic reason for those expenditures to be made.  I don't see it here, and neither does Neil.  How many ultra-wealthy people will pay millions of dollars for a very high-risk trip to a place where there's absolutely nothing when they could spend thousands of dollars and go to any one of hundreds of spectacular places on Earth with drastically lower risk?  A few super-dedicated explorer types perhaps, but I doubt that is even a beginning business model, much less a sustainable one.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #55 on: 05/04/2017 02:17 PM »
His argument is predicated on the assumption that a manned Mars mission would exceed the current NASA HSF budget by a wide margin,

Where did he say that?

How else do you interpret "The money. To go to Mars because you want to, my reading of history says that doesn't work. We didn't go to the Moon because we wanted to. We may remember it that way, because it serves a certain self-image we're Americans, we're explorers, it's in our DNA, so we went to the Moon. That's just assuming it's a thing you do, without asking what's driving this, what's allocating the money for this?"?

He didn't say it had to be government money.  He's asking what motivation is there to go to Mars that would justify the cost.  In the past, very large expenditures like this have had to be government money because there's no profit in doing it privately.  There's plenty of private money available for ventures of this size, but there has to be a sound, usually economic reason for those expenditures to be made.  I don't see it here, and neither does Neil.  How many ultra-wealthy people will pay millions of dollars for a very high-risk trip to a place where there's absolutely nothing when they could spend thousands of dollars and go to any one of hundreds of spectacular places on Earth with drastically lower risk?  A few super-dedicated explorer types perhaps, but I doubt that is even a beginning business model, much less a sustainable one.

You're right, there is no business model to go to Mars, but Elon Musk really wants to colonize Mars and is willing to spend his multi-billion dollar fortune to do it. I don't think the colonization plan will work in our lifetime because of economics and demand. Even billionaires don't have enough money for that. However, I am confident SpaceX will be able to get explorers to the surface of Mars.

Offline su27k

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #56 on: 05/04/2017 02:18 PM »
His argument is predicated on the assumption that a manned Mars mission would exceed the current NASA HSF budget by a wide margin,

Where did he say that?

How else do you interpret "The money. To go to Mars because you want to, my reading of history says that doesn't work. We didn't go to the Moon because we wanted to. We may remember it that way, because it serves a certain self-image we're Americans, we're explorers, it's in our DNA, so we went to the Moon. That's just assuming it's a thing you do, without asking what's driving this, what's allocating the money for this?"?

He didn't say it had to be government money.  He's asking what motivation is there to go to Mars that would justify the cost.  In the past, very large expenditures like this have had to be government money because there's no profit in doing it privately.  There's plenty of private money available for ventures of this size, but there has to be a sound, usually economic reason for those expenditures to be made.  I don't see it here, and neither does Neil.  How many ultra-wealthy people will pay millions of dollars for a very high-risk trip to a place where there's absolutely nothing when they could spend thousands of dollars and go to any one of hundreds of spectacular places on Earth with drastically lower risk?  A few super-dedicated explorer types perhaps, but I doubt that is even a beginning business model, much less a sustainable one.

No, it doesn't have to be government money, he is saying there's no government money for this, there's no private money for this either, thus it's impossible. I'm saying the first assumption maybe incorrect, NASA has a big HSF budget and it can cover a manned Mars mission if the money is used efficiently. We don't even have to touch the private money part to invalidate his argument.

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #57 on: 05/04/2017 11:30 PM »
Quote
Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars

This is quite a bold assumption. Ever/Never is a very long period of time. Ever in his forseeable lifetime? Possible, but unlikely (unlikely that it is not happening). And walking? Walking is quite doable. After the first testflight + powered landing, we could put a human into a dragon2 capsule and send it to Mars. That person will eventually walk on mars, but will not come back to earth (essentially, that person would just give proof that person can walk on Mars). So having a human walking on Mars is easily achievable and yet pointless (We know that it works at 1G, we know that it works at 1/6th G (okay, it's more like hopping around), so what would lead to the assumpution that walking doesn't work at 1/3 G).

Yet, the broader meaning is (in my opinion) have humans living on Mars, at best from birth to death. Yet I'm not convinced that Mars is the best place to go. It's possible to go there, it's possible to set up a colony there, it's just not the ideal place to go. The ideal place to go seems to me is a rotating station around an asteroid of sufficient size (Ceres). But if the term "ever walk on Mars" gets expanded to "ever live and thrive on another world" Tyson is just wrong. He is even wrong at the close meaning, that a person has to walk on the surface of Mars ever. Because even if we chose to live on rotating space station, there'll be that urge to just go to Mars and other locations in the solar system and beyond. Even if there are just flag and foodprint missions.

Online mike robel

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #58 on: 05/04/2017 11:35 PM »
I expect it will be 20 years in the future before people land on mars.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars
« Reply #59 on: 05/04/2017 11:39 PM »
Quote
Neil deGrasse Tyson doubts humans will ever walk on Mars

This is quite a bold assumption. Ever/Never is a very long period of time. Ever in his forseeable lifetime? Possible, but unlikely (unlikely that it is not happening). And walking? Walking is quite doable. After the first testflight + powered landing, we could put a human into a dragon2 capsule and send it to Mars. That person will eventually walk on mars, but will not come back to earth (essentially, that person would just give proof that person can walk on Mars). So having a human walking on Mars is easily achievable and yet pointless (We know that it works at 1G, we know that it works at 1/6th G (okay, it's more like hopping around), so what would lead to the assumpution that walking doesn't work at 1/3 G).

Yet, the broader meaning is (in my opinion) have humans living on Mars, at best from birth to death. Yet I'm not convinced that Mars is the best place to go. It's possible to go there, it's possible to set up a colony there, it's just not the ideal place to go. The ideal place to go seems to me is a rotating station around an asteroid of sufficient size (Ceres). But if the term "ever walk on Mars" gets expanded to "ever live and thrive on another world" Tyson is just wrong. He is even wrong at the close meaning, that a person has to walk on the surface of Mars ever. Because even if we chose to live on rotating space station, there'll be that urge to just go to Mars and other locations in the solar system and beyond. Even if there are just flag and foodprint missions.

This isn't something Tyson ever said.  If you read the article, you'll see that he questions how long it will take and when it will happen.  He never said that he doubts humans would ever walk on Mars.

That part about "ever" is just a horribly-inaccurate headline put on the article by an editor at Wired.  And, for some reason, this thread title followed that inaccurate headline.

Can we fix the thread title?  It really slanders Tyson.

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