Author Topic: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure  (Read 1844 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« on: 05/02/2017 12:51 AM »
The toxicity of perchlorate in humans is due to competing with iodine absorption. Therefore an effective countermeasure is to simply supplement with extra iodine. Problem solved.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25796570
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Online ChrisWilson68

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #1 on: 05/02/2017 01:07 AM »
From the abstract, it seems they're talking about "perchlorate exposure at current regulatory limits", and at that level, iodine supplements are effective.

Would perchlorate exposure on Mars likely be at that level?

Offline Unobscured Vision

Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #2 on: 05/02/2017 01:21 AM »
Way, way higher levels on Mars, +/- depending on where you were situated at but it wouldn't even come close to dealing with them. Gotta treat those perchlorates more like a contaminant than anything else. That's the best way to deal with them and minimize exposure, imo.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #3 on: 05/02/2017 01:49 AM »
Way, way higher levels on Mars, +/- depending on where you were situated at but it wouldn't even come close to dealing with them. Gotta treat those perchlorates more like a contaminant than anything else. That's the best way to deal with them and minimize exposure, imo.
Wouldbt even come close? The regulatory limits are very conservative. I suspect iodine supplementation would help a lot.
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Online ChrisWilson68

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #4 on: 05/02/2017 02:04 AM »
Since the study only looked at perchlorate doses at the legal limit, we don't have evidence one way or the other about whether iodine supplements would be effective at much higher perchlorate doses.

Online Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #5 on: 05/02/2017 02:45 AM »
Keep in mind that there are global atmospheric mechanisms that consume about 20 mols of peroxides annually.

I'd like to say more, but there's a paper in progress that impacts this.

Safe to say that its not an issue regarding toxicity. Suggest you study the Atacama desert where perchlorates are present, to understand how Earth processes/plants/animals handle things.

And also study ... cyanobacteria. BTW, if life on Mars exists, it likely copes with this. And ... it probably has pharmaceutical aspects to it as a side benefit.

Suffice to say, you can't presume issues exist until more of the story of Mars unfolds.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #6 on: 05/02/2017 03:03 AM »
With the right catalysts, perchlorates are an energy source. They exothermically release oxygen. If life is good at anything, it's developing catalysts to utilize energy sources. It's possible that life on Mars actually feeds on perchlorates.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #7 on: 05/02/2017 03:06 AM »
Since the study only looked at perchlorate doses at the legal limit, we don't have evidence one way or the other about whether iodine supplements would be effective at much higher perchlorate doses.
I would say that the fact that this study seems to show benefit and the fundamental mechanism of toxicity is related to iodine suggests to me that iodine supplementation would help. It might not help significantly or well enough by itself, but I do think it's safe to say it'd help to some degree. We just don't know to what degree that would be.
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Online ChrisWilson68

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #8 on: 05/02/2017 03:47 AM »
With the right catalysts, perchlorates are an energy source. They exothermically release oxygen. If life is good at anything, it's developing catalysts to utilize energy sources. It's possible that life on Mars actually feeds on perchlorates.

Yeah, which is unfortunate, because there are lots of un-eaten perchlorates on Mars.  That argues against there being life on Mars.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #9 on: 05/03/2017 05:14 AM »
There is a lot of scare mongering about perchlorate.  Minimising entry of perchlorate into the food chain and ensuring that the body has enough iodine should ensure the issue is manageable.

And the limits are set for children, pregnant women, and people with compromised thyroids.  We are not going to see people fitting these descriptions on the first missions anyway.
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Offline gospacex

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #10 on: 05/03/2017 09:38 AM »
There is a lot of scare mongering about perchlorate.  Minimising entry of perchlorate into the food chain and ensuring that the body has enough iodine should ensure the issue is manageable.

Exactly. If you don't want to be poisoned by Martian perclorate, try the simple solution of not chewing untreated Martian regolith.

Online Phil Stooke

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #11 on: 05/10/2017 08:52 PM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.

Offline deruch

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #12 on: 05/13/2017 09:08 PM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.
With the lower gravity, your reflexes may be quick enough to catch it before it hits the ground.
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Offline RanulfC

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #13 on: 05/16/2017 06:54 PM »
Can't find the article atm but a much simpler and more relevant "ISRU" method was suggested to perchlorate reduction in the local regolith IIRC; mix it with the "waste' stream. From what I recall it is 'mutually reducing' in both directions.

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Offline TripD

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #14 on: 05/18/2017 01:56 AM »
I think the question of transportation of perchlorates should precede any notion of localized treatment. 

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #15 on: 05/19/2017 12:02 AM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.
With the lower gravity, your reflexes may be quick enough to catch it before it hits the ground.

In order for your hand to catch up with the sandwich you have to lower it (and therefore your trunk) which means falling under gravity which is the same lower gravity you get on Mars!

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #16 on: 05/19/2017 01:21 AM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.
With the lower gravity, your reflexes may be quick enough to catch it before it hits the ground.

In order for your hand to catch up with the sandwich you have to lower it (and therefore your trunk) which means falling under gravity which is the same lower gravity you get on Mars!
Not true. You can move your hand faster than falling from gravity.
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Online Welsh Dragon

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #17 on: 05/19/2017 03:07 PM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.
With the lower gravity, your reflexes may be quick enough to catch it before it hits the ground.

In order for your hand to catch up with the sandwich you have to lower it (and therefore your trunk) which means falling under gravity which is the same lower gravity you get on Mars!
Muscles?

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #18 on: 05/24/2017 03:01 AM »
Right - the 5 second rule doesn't apply if you drop your sandwich on Mars.

You plan on eating your sandwich outside?
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Offline MickQ

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Re: Simple Perchlorate toxicity countermeasure
« Reply #19 on: 06/04/2017 02:36 AM »
But,  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Therefore if you use muscles to move your hand down faster than falling under gravity, would you not tend to move upward in opposition to the downward motion of your hand ?  I know you can catch falling items on Earth but will it work under 1/6 G ?

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