Author Topic: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches  (Read 12635 times)

Offline eeergo

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It may be worthwhile to note the reasons the strikers are wielding, and how the CSG situation is part of a much larger unrest in French Guyana. Not being familiar with the situation, I've taken this article as reference (in French):

http://la1ere.francetvinfo.fr/mouvements-sociaux-blocage-du-centre-spatial-pourquoi-guyane-connait-tres-vive-tension-455827.html

- The CSG-centric strike is led by the ENDEL workers, protesting in relation to the yearly collective accord negotiations. These are joined by the transporters' union UGTR, protesting against their foreseen reduced role in the spaceport with Ariane 6.

- Access roads were also blocked by EDF UTG (with general grievances about unemployment, local hiring, labor conditions, training and safety and the future of the energetic policy in the territory) and the Toukans (healthcare union, protesting mainly for the perspectives for Kourou's healthcenter).

- The "500 brothers against delinquency" (500 frères contre la délinquance) is an organization that, reportedly, protests and acts regularly against the insecurity conditions in French Guyana. They have joined the protests since Monday, after they boycotted Minister Ségolène Royal's visit last Friday.

- In parallel, agricultural unions are protesting the alleged non-payment of subsidies and EU aids.

Concerns about Arianespace's schedule delays have reportedly been alluded to at the negotiating table, given the insistence on moving the protests away from the areas critical to CSG operation have backlashed, and caused the strikers to harden their blockades there.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2017 07:44 AM by jacqmans »
-DaviD-

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Confirmation of no new launch date:

Quote
Due to social movement, #VA236 launch will not occur this Thursday. New launch date ASAP. #Ariane5 & payloads are in safe, standby condition

https://twitter.com/arianespaceceo/status/844706676108398593

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Brief Arianespace update:

Quote
Ariane 5   March 23, 2017
Arianespace VA236: launch rescheduling

As the social movements does not allow the resumption of operations for the Ariane 5 launch scheduled for today, Thursday, March 23, Arianespace has decided to postpone the launch.

A new launch date will be announced as soon as possible.

The launch vehicle, with its SGDC and KOREASAT-7 satellite payloads, remain in a stand-by mode and are being maintained in fully safe conditions.

Arianespace Flight VA236 – which is scheduled to launch SGDC for Telebras S.A., performed within the framework of a contract with SGDC prime contractor VISIONA Tecnologia Espacial S.A.; and KOREASAT-7 for ktsat.

http://www.arianespace.com/mission-update/arianespace-va236-launch-rescheduling/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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DutchSpace‏ @DutchSpace 3m3 minutes ago

Update on #Kourou : Local people are telling me no roll-out before Monday,would mean earliest possible launch on the 28th #VA236

https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/844924192655073281

Offline jacqmans

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Online russianhalo117

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I'm told that the strike on the space base started originally with crews working on the ELA-4 project and expanded to the whole space base. Strikes were already under way well before in the French territory.

Offline calapine

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It looks like the 28th has to be scratched as well:

Peter B. de Selding via Twitter
Quote
The labor unrest in French Guiana, Europe's spaceport, is not improving. A general strike has been called for, starting Monday.
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/845716942556221441

and further info from @dutchspace:

Quote
@AuerSusan @pbdes its a continuation of the strike, also, negation team on the ground, but word is strikers refuse to negotiate with them
https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/845718733595258881
« Last Edit: 03/25/2017 06:31 PM by calapine »

Offline eeergo

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Peter de Sielding reporting in a series of tweets (starting here) some background and news into the strike-turned-general protest.


A new tidbit I hadn't heard before is the satellites' teams are stuck in Kourou, since the airport is closed, and protesters' roadblocks were only lifted on Sunday to allow people to replenish their food stocks, and were up again at 4 am today, as scheduled.


Apparently one of the demands from protesters to negotiate, after they refused to do so with an interministerial delegation, was the presence of the Prime Minister Bernard Cazenueve in French Guiana - he is now announcing the visit of one or more Ministers there "within this week".


This probably rules out launch until at least next week.
-DaviD-

Offline Alastor

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Given the way the situation is handled by politicians in French Guyana, il is very likely the social contest movement currently happening there may last up to a few weeks.

The blockade of the launch of Ariane5 being one of the most mediatic ressource at the hand of the protesters, it is likely as well that they will do anything to hold it for as long as they don't have satisfaction.

Given these contextual elements, The launch should be expected to be held by more than a few days. Possibly weeks.

Offline ZachS09

If this launch is delayed by a few more weeks, then this affects ViaSat 2 & Eutelsat 172B and possibly EuropaSat/Hellas Sat 3 & GSat 17.

I'm making this assumption due to the time Arianespace needs for a feasible turnaround between launches.
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 04:35 PM by ZachS09 »
"Liftoff of Falcon 9: the world's first reflight of an orbital class rocket."

Offline Archibald

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Ah. A strike. Now Kourou really feels like France

Because France has colonized French Guiana since 1503. They wanted to make that country like France since it's their territory.

Pff, how not funny :(

Guyana has a good reasons to go on strike. Compared to the French metropole it is too much of a neglected place, with very high youth uneployment rate, and pretty bad infrastructures. Rampant insecurity and consumer goods are expensives. Kourou mostly employes highly qualified people that come from the Metropole and not from Guyana itself.
It is a recurring, long standing issue with far away / overseas French territories  (Guadeloupe, Martinique and La Réunion).
« Last Edit: 03/29/2017 09:48 AM by Archibald »

Offline DT1

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A new tidbit I hadn't heard before is the satellites' teams are stuck in Kourou, since the airport is closed, and protesters' roadblocks were only lifted on Sunday to allow people to replenish their food stocks, and were up again at 4 am today, as scheduled.

As this will be the Lampoldshausen launcher, named for the 2016 presidency of the Community of Ariane Cities, the Mayor of Lampoldshausen and the director and vice director of DLR's Institute of Space Propulsion were in Kourou last week to watch the launch.

They were evacuated from the Guiana Space Center by helicopter to Kourou Airport and by a Transall military airplane to Cayenne Airport to get one of the last flights out of French Guiana back to Europe.

Photo by Hans Zeller, Arianespace:
« Last Edit: 03/29/2017 04:35 PM by DT1 »
---------------------------
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Offline input~2

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Europe's spaceport & much of rest of Fr Guiana remains closed after breakdown of negs between local pop & govt. Two weeks & counting...

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/848797137965989889

Quote
Europe's spaceport2/ Arianespace had forecast no launches in May, so bottleneck from 3-wk shutdown from strikes could be absorbed by June.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/848798546849562624

Offline Jester

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A new tidbit I hadn't heard before is the satellites' teams are stuck in Kourou, since the airport is closed, and protesters' roadblocks were only lifted on Sunday to allow people to replenish their food stocks, and were up again at 4 am today, as scheduled.

As this will be the Lampoldshausen launcher, named for the 2016 presidency of the Community of Ariane Cities, the Mayor of Lampoldshausen and the director and vice director of DLR's Institute of Space Propulsion were in Kourou last week to watch the launch.

They were evacuated from the Guiana Space Center by helicopter to Kourou Airport and by a Transall military airplane to Cayenne Airport to get one of the last flights out of French Guiana back to Europe.

Photo by Hans Zeller, Arianespace:

Having flown from Kourou airport, flying a transall in/out there is pretty rare afaik, do you know the exact date this took place ?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Peter B de Selding has sent a whole series of tweets (starting here) on current political situation in French Guiana.

Obviously this isn't a political forum, but the key point is that the protestors are clearly trying to use the shutting down of the space centre as leverage. I could see this dragging on for quite some time so might not be any more launches for quite a while.

Offline kch

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Peter B de Selding has sent a whole series of tweets (starting here) on current political situation in French Guiana.

Obviously this isn't a political forum, but the key point is that the protestors are clearly trying to use the shutting down of the space centre as leverage. I could see this dragging on for quite some time so might not be any more launches for quite a while.

Maybe 2018?  (maybe later?)   :(

Offline edkyle99

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"“The French government is working very hard to find a solution, and I am very, very confident that we will resume with the launches in the coming days,” CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall said during an April 4 presentation at the 33rd Space Symposium ..."
http://spacenews.com/legall-confident-french-guiana-launches-will-resume-in-the-coming-days/

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Archibald

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Protesters are indeed occupying the spaceport so that their voices can be heard. Albeit the French government has promise to spend a couple of billion euros to upgrade Guyana infrastructures. Fact is there are actually slums all around the spaceport, in a stark contrast.

 As an example as how Guyana is ill treated, hospitals. While there are decent hospitals in French Guyana (fortunately !), there are a lot of case where the infrastructure is insuficient enough people have to be flown to La Guadeloupe or La Martinique for treatment... or even to the Metropole (!) at a great expense of time and money...

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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"“The French government is working very hard to find a solution, and I am very, very confident that we will resume with the launches in the coming days,” CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall said during an April 4 presentation at the 33rd Space Symposium ..."
http://spacenews.com/legall-confident-french-guiana-launches-will-resume-in-the-coming-days/

 - Ed Kyle

Must be referring to this:

Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 3m3 minutes ago

Euro spaceport shutdown: 3 Fr ministers announce measures for Fr Guiana after ministerial council. Will strikers see them as sufficient?
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/849570107089203200

Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 2m2 minutes ago

Euro spaceport: ~30 sit-in demonstrators spent night at space ctr conf center awaiting Fr govt response to demands. They're still there.
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/849570668773605376

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Overnight sit-in at Europe spaceport office ends; demonstrators reject Fr govt response; still want CNES to plead their case to govt.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/849623549686009856

Offline Star One

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I've read elsewhere that partly discontent is due to locals feeling that the French treat them as second class citizens?

Offline Alastor

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I've read elsewhere that partly discontent is due to locals feeling that the French treat them as second class citizens?
It's a bit more complex than that (oversea french territories have a complicated status), but the general idea seems about right. In particular, crime rates have reached frightening levels and locals don't feel their safety is assured. But demands include also concerns about health, education and more. All pretty backed up by the statistics.
Of course these figures are not new, but there was supposed to be a plan to invest in the government infrastructures here to enable these discrepancies to fade away, and the locals feel that the issue is being neglected by governments.
With the presidential elections coming shortly, they both want actions from a government that has not upheld its promises during the last term, and probably also strong signs from the candidates that they actually care about Guyana.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2017 03:08 PM by Alastor »

Offline Star One

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I've read elsewhere that partly discontent is due to locals feeling that the French treat them as second class citizens?
It's a bit more complex than that (oversea french territories have a complicated status), but the general idea seems about right. In particular, crime rates have reached frightening levels and locals don't feel their safety is assured. But demands include also concerns about health, education and more. All pretty backed up by the statistics.
Of course these figures are not new, but there was supposed to be a plan to invest in the government infrastructures here to enable these discrepancies to fade away, and the locals feel that the issue is being neglected by governments.
With the presidential elections coming shortly, they both want actions from a government that has not upheld its promises during the last term, and probably also strong signs from the candidates that they actually care about Guyana.

Thank you for that clear explanation. Does the spaceport result in much money going into the local economy from it?

Offline Star One

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The issue is that the spaceport needs high-skilled employees of which very little come from French Guyana itself.

Well perhaps they should be investing to put in place the facilities so that locals down the line can fill these roles as well.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2017 03:47 PM by Star One »

Offline Archibald

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Indirect jobs - probably a lot (teachers, nannies, the like).
High-skill jobs - probably not much. Most come from the Metropole and Europe.

Offline Star One

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Indirect jobs - probably a lot (teachers, nannies, the like).
High-skill jobs - probably not much. Most come from the Metropole and Europe.

Has their been consideration of schemes to provide facilities to educate and train locals into the more skilled rolls?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Europe's spaceport: Roadblocks still up, Ariane/Euro Soyuz (& much of Fr Guiana economy) still down. No off-ramp from crisis imminent.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/849928161018163200

Offline Archibald

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Indirect jobs - probably a lot (teachers, nannies, the like).
High-skill jobs - probably not much. Most come from the Metropole and Europe.

Has their been consideration of schemes to provide facilities to educate and train locals into the more skilled rolls?

I really don't know, but the way the French schooling system is structured, if a French Guyana student wanted to graduate in aerospace, he certainly might have to go to the Metropole (Toulouse and Paris) or to Europe / ESA.

Offline Alastor

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As said by Archibald, for graduate education, I don't think it would be really feasible to provide an offer of highly skilled education without relying on the infrastructure of the metropole. But even in the metropole, people often leave their city to go to a school several hundred kilometers away for that kind of jobs. So the best you can do is provide help for the traveling costs, etc that are obviously much higher.

For undergraduate education, it seems however that the infrastructure is lacking (not enough schools/high schools), and another problem often met by oversea territories is that the teachers are often much less willing to go there. So that something that needs work.

Anyway, training more high skilled people from guyana is one thing (and a good thing), but I'm not sure it would change much to the economy. If you take the case of the spaceport, the users compagny like Arianespace are metropole-based, and when there is alaunch, they fly their teams there. Of course, there is some local workforce, but the impact on local economy doesn't come from the fact that you educate more high skilled workers there, it's more related to the local demand of high skilled workers. If there is no demand, they will just have to leave the place to find a job.

Offline Chasm

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The last days brought a few articles in the press. From those articles, an unchecked.

French Guyana is part of France, part of the EU and NATO. It not part of the Schengen zone. Being an EU border makes local imports more difficult and expensive as it would be otherwise.
EU citizens can move to and work in French Guyana without restrictions. The reverse is of course also true. Doing this in reality is much harder because of things like:

Graduate school?
40% of the pupils don't graduate school. At all.

15% of the population has access to potable water.
The official unemployment number is ~22%, and has been that high for decades. (France ~10%)
For those under 25 years the official unemployment number is 46.5%. (France ~24%)
Half the GDP of France, 45% higher food prices.


Arianespace is the biggest part of the economy. Tourism is next and growing. Forestry, tropical hardwoods, is also big. There is some agriculture at the coast for local consumption and crab fishing mostly for export. Gold mining closes the list.
Illegal gold mining is a major and long lasting cross border issue. Crime and serve pollution of the environment.


250k people in French Guyana. It is not the poorest oversea department but has the highest murder rate in France, averaging to once a week.
26k live in Kourou. Neighborhoods with Arianespace employees are easy to find at night, they are the ones with streetlights.


The main demands are: Higher wages, more workplaces, money for social infrastructure [schools, clinics], more support for the farmers, better protection of small local businesses.
Additional demands include: more police, deporting illegal immigrants.


One of the overarching complaints is that the government did not act on its past promises.
This is not the first conflict, just the most visible and longest. The upcoming presidential election adds visibility, the fear that the protests spread into other poor departments adds urgency for the politicians.
The clinic and medical situation is one of the old promises, the demand is for something more local than a ticket on the next plane to France for even slightly complicated issues.



One observation: When the guys with the balaclavas who are enforcing the strike are the ones demanding more police there is something odd here.

Again, sourced via this weeks news and magazine articles and not fact checked. (Turns out that is hard if you don't speak French.)

Offline Jester

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for the reporting, its slightly one sided and with incorrect facts, maybe open a discussion thread somewhere, and use this for actual updates.

Offline Archibald

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The last days brought a few articles in the press. From those articles, an unchecked.

French Guyana is part of France, part of the EU and NATO. It not part of the Schengen zone. Being an EU border makes local imports more difficult and expensive as it would be otherwise.
EU citizens can move to and work in French Guyana without restrictions. The reverse is of course also true. Doing this in reality is much harder because of things like:

Graduate school?
40% of the pupils don't graduate school. At all.

15% of the population has access to potable water.
The official unemployment number is ~22%, and has been that high for decades. (France ~10%)
For those under 25 years the official unemployment number is 46.5%. (France ~24%)
Half the GDP of France, 45% higher food prices.


Arianespace is the biggest part of the economy. Tourism is next and growing. Forestry, tropical hardwoods, is also big. There is some agriculture at the coast for local consumption and crab fishing mostly for export. Gold mining closes the list.
Illegal gold mining is a major and long lasting cross border issue. Crime and serve pollution of the environment.


250k people in French Guyana. It is not the poorest oversea department but has the highest murder rate in France, averaging to once a week.
26k live in Kourou. Neighborhoods with Arianespace employees are easy to find at night, they are the ones with streetlights.


The main demands are: Higher wages, more workplaces, money for social infrastructure [schools, clinics], more support for the farmers, better protection of small local businesses.
Additional demands include: more police, deporting illegal immigrants.


One of the overarching complaints is that the government did not act on its past promises.
This is not the first conflict, just the most visible and longest. The upcoming presidential election adds visibility, the fear that the protests spread into other poor departments adds urgency for the politicians.
The clinic and medical situation is one of the old promises, the demand is for something more local than a ticket on the next plane to France for even slightly complicated issues.



One observation: When the guys with the balaclavas who are enforcing the strike are the ones demanding more police there is something odd here.

Again, sourced via this weeks news and magazine articles and not fact checked. (Turns out that is hard if you don't speak French.)

A pretty honest assessment of the situation IMHO. These numbers are rather depressing.

Offline Archibald

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Illegal gold mining is a major and long lasting cross border issue.

There is an important mercury pollution because of illegal gold mining.

Offline Star One

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #34 on: 04/07/2017 07:17 AM »
for the reporting, its slightly one sided and with incorrect facts, maybe open a discussion thread somewhere, and use this for actual updates.

There isn't one.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2017 07:44 AM by jacqmans »

Offline jacqmans

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #35 on: 04/07/2017 08:04 AM »
Guiana Space Centre Director meets with protesters as demonstrations continue

KOUROU, French Guiana — Protests continued at the Guiana Space Centre with the unveiling of a sculpture of a fist, highlighting protesters’ concerns. SpaceFlight Insider spoke with workers attending this rally who marched toward the Centre to meet its director, Didier Faivre.

Read more at http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/esa/guiana-space-centre-director-meets-protesters-demonstrations-continue/#QmmD39lwulmgWci8.99

Offline Star One

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #36 on: 04/07/2017 08:28 AM »
How long would this have to go on to impact on the JWST launch, or will whatever other payloads are in front of it have to be juggled round to insure it still launches on time?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #37 on: 04/07/2017 12:10 PM »
Here's an interesting article with the background on the disturbances and role of the spaceport:

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/french-guiana-rockets-and-republic

It says at least a partial deal has been done, which is why protestors left the spaceport yesterday. I've not seen any reports though that airport etc has re-opened.

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #38 on: 04/07/2017 02:48 PM »
How long would this have to go on to impact on the JWST launch, or will whatever other payloads are in front of it have to be juggled round to insure it still launches on time?

I was going to say "JWST is still years away from launch" then reminded 2018 is next year (!).

Then again, JWST isn't a space probe, it has no launch window.

Offline robertross

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #39 on: 04/07/2017 02:57 PM »
How long would this have to go on to impact on the JWST launch, or will whatever other payloads are in front of it have to be juggled round to insure it still launches on time?

I was going to say "JWST is still years away from launch" then reminded 2018 is next year (!).

Then again, JWST isn't a space probe, it has no launch window.

Maybe not, but the program costs will continue to mount while it waits in line for the preceding launches to occur.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline jacqmans

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #40 on: 04/07/2017 05:49 PM »
There is an even more important launch scheduled in october 2018... the BepiColombo mission to Mercury.
That has a launch window... so all other payloads have to be scheduled around that.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2017 05:50 PM by jacqmans »

Offline Chasm

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A pretty honest assessment of the situation IMHO. These numbers are rather depressing.


Other than unemployment they are also hard to check. [via the National Institute of Statistics and Economic Studies]
I tried to get some historical perspective on them but did not really manage to.

There seems to be a correlation of 45% youth unemployment and 40% not finishing school. So how are are the schools developing, is there an upward trend of pupils finishing it?
Looking for data I came about this report.
In 2005 58% of the 25-34 year old had no school diploma. The highest number in the nation, best region is 11% Age group 35-64 has the same number, or in other words 0 improvement. Some regions improved by 25%, the 2nd worst improvement was 12%.
Of those 25-34 year old that finished school 17% went on and finished some form of higher education, again the lowest number in the nation. Highest was 51%.
So at least things are getting better even if there is still a long way go.

Access to potable water for only 15% is really low. I guess that is using the EU definition, requiring treatment and continuous quality control. Where do the others get their water from. Local wells? Whats the quality of that water.

As far as food prices France subsidizes some basic foods in overseas departments.  What are the rules in Guiana, and how did this skew the statistics.


What were the concessions in past strikes. What did and did not happen. I guess my Google skills are not as good as I thought, I found nothing on that.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2017 07:46 AM by jacqmans »

Offline Chasm

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #42 on: 04/08/2017 03:43 PM »
Stratfor released an 1600 word analysis yesterday. [link]

A lot of background on the history and how the current situation developed. As far as contents overlap I did not see contradictions to what has been in news and magazine articles.

It says that an agreement has been reached on the 6th and that it is closer to the €1B the government offered than the €2.5B the protesters wanted.

The analysis continues with an outlook into the future and a few what ifs.



Looks like Arianespace will be back to normal operations soon enough.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #43 on: 04/11/2017 10:02 AM »
Talk of a settlement seems premature, surely the French presidential election is going to delay any real progress for a while now?

Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 5m5 minutes ago

Europe's spaceport: 3 wks into general strike, roadblocks still up. No improvement in view; Fr presidential elections April 23/May 7.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/851735434388529152

Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 2m2 minutes ago

Europe's spaceport: Fr president Hollande calls for roadblock's end; no effect. Some say he shld travel to Fr Guiana, make symbolic gesture.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/851736369718329344

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #44 on: 04/11/2017 04:52 PM »
Without going political, François Hollande is currently a lame duck President (if I was snarky, I would say he was lame duck from day one, but well  ::) )   
More seriously, the ongoing government will remain in place until early May and still work for a solution to be found.

The coming presidential election will surely make matter hard, even more since round one results (april 23) might bring an enormous surprise.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2017 04:54 PM by Archibald »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #45 on: 04/11/2017 07:05 PM »
Protest movement calls for a complete shutdown of French Guiana from Monday:

http://www.france24.com/en/20170410-activists-behind-french-guiana-unrest-call-shutdown-overseas-territory


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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #47 on: 04/11/2017 08:38 PM »
I sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there....

....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability.  Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport.  ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft.  ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America.  This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).
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Offline Star One

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French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #48 on: 04/12/2017 06:03 AM »
I sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there....

....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability.  Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport.  ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft.  ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America.  This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).

You talk of not belittling the issues of the people there, and then appear to do the reverse in your second paragraph by making insensitive remarks by talking as if the local people might turn into some savage mob bent on destruction.
« Last Edit: 04/12/2017 06:55 AM by Star One »

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #49 on: 04/12/2017 10:02 AM »
I sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there....

....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability.  Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport.  ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft.  ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America.  This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).

You talk of not belittling the issues of the people there, and then appear to do the reverse in your second paragraph by making insensitive remarks by talking as if the local people might turn into some savage mob bent on destruction.

Seconded. The previous post is completely over the top. French Guyana people are not that stupid, and by the way, they won't destroy a spaceport with their bare hands. Plus there is the Foreign Legion there, just in case.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #50 on: 04/12/2017 11:57 AM »
I sincerely hope France can settle its problems with French Guyana and I would never belittle the issues the people have there....

....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability.  Suppose, in a worst case scenario (but highly unlikely), F. Guyana fully revolts and in the process destroys the spaceport.  ESA could still manufacture spacecraft, but lack a launch site if not the means to launch said spacecraft.  ESA would find itself momentarily at the mercy of either Russia or America.  This could potentially be a burden to (as an example) America if a project akin to ISS (Deep Space Gateway anyone?) required a few sizable components to launch out of their spaceport (also there's the Webb's situation if you think about it).
Well, in the unlikely event of California seceding the US amidst growing disagreement with the rest of the county WRT general policy directions the US would be a pretty unreliable partner, too.

You can always make up catastrophic scenarios if you want to.

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #51 on: 04/12/2017 01:55 PM »


....but, ultimately, this is one example of why depending on international partners can be a liability. 
You do realise no 'international partners' are involved in this dispute? French Guyana is part of France. Not a different county.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #52 on: 04/14/2017 12:09 PM »
Quote
@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852841297551532032

Quote
Europe's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852842857559990272
« Last Edit: 04/14/2017 12:10 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline ZachS09

It's been 25 days since the strike started.

I'm guessing that the roadblocks will not go away for another month if this keeps up.
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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #54 on: 04/14/2017 10:01 PM »
Quote
@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852841297551532032

Quote
Europe's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852842857559990272

Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport?  Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).  :(

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #55 on: 04/15/2017 01:27 AM »
For years there is an agreement between Arianespace and MHI or ESA and JAXA, that Ariane 5 and H2 serve as backup for the other launcher when one gets grounded.
France Guiana is the best location for European orbital launch site. Unfortunately main land Europe is situated very unfavorably for orbital launches. I think the second best location is Assertion island.  But relocating the launchsite will require a multi-billion Euro investment.

The problem is, that soon there will be elections in France. The current government doesn't want their actions in France Guiana, to couse negative effects on the elections.
I think other ESA memberstates have to urge France that CSG must become available soon. Because this strike negatively effects the reputation of Arianespace and ESA.
My perception is, that a strike in the European part of France, that would have such an effect on infrastructure and a industry, would have been ended with force, within a couple of weeks.

My oppinion is, that when the strice hasn't ended by may, France must end it with force. And no money what so ever sould go to France Guiana.
I think the state government have made a very generous offer to it's France Guianese citicens. If I'm not mistaken, the France economy and state finance aren't very prosperous at this moment. Offering to invest a additional billion Euro in France Guiana is a large commitment.
The concerns that the France Guianese have, are clear. The France government is willing to invest and negotiate. But you can't properly negotiate when one party is threatened / is prohibited from operating.
(edited because of the extreme metaphor, I apologize to the people that were offended). 

The strike must end! And Arianespace should be able to launch the 3 weeks delayed Ariane 5. The parties can evaluate the offer and negotiate with the France government, on equal terms. They can delay the schedule again when they don't like the offer and the outcome of the negotiations.
But when the strike continues now, the peoplle of France Guiana show they aren't willing to negotiate. Their only purpose is to cause havoc. The France government should restore the order in that case.

I think the best results are accomplished when more work is created in France Guiana. Possibly it could help the France Guiana when a bit more of it's land could be developed. For example the CSG grounds could be put to use for wood production. Between launches the forest could be cut and new trees could be planted by local people. With good managment the forests can be maintained while a lot of highly required wood is produced. Just as in Canada, and parts of Europe.
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 01:17 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #56 on: 04/15/2017 06:20 AM »
Quote
@Arianespace letter to Fr Guiana politicians asking that 3+ wks of roadblocks be ended was badly received. Traffic open only till Monday.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852841297551532032

Quote
Europe's spaceport: Given Guiana strike, Arianespace return to ops before early May looks unlikely, & even that is optimistic at this stage.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/852842857559990272

Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport?  Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).  :(


This is ridiculous. There wasn't a single problem in Kourou over the last four decades and all of sudden, because of a strike, we should have another launch pad ? really ? this isn't a civil war, damn it. They won't make secession anytime soon.
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 06:20 AM by Archibald »

Offline osiossim

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #57 on: 04/15/2017 07:03 AM »
"...this strike negatively effects the reputation of Arianespace and ESA..."

What about the people there? I have just came back from F. Guiana, local people have nothing to do, no business, no agriculture, no development, no future. Everything is designed for Arianespace and ESA already. Shops are owned and operated by Chinese. Local people sit infront of their houses and wait for nothing.

"..when the strice hasn't ended by may, France must end it with force. And no money what so ever sould go to France Guiana..."

There are massive amount of French military presence, weaponry and boots on ground at French Guiana territory. The mainland France is already investing heavily on military infrastructure, only. But using force against local people, who ask for better education, health, social life and sustainable jobs will definitely trigger much larger scale riot on other French overseas departments as well.

"...Offering to invest a additional billion Euro in France Guiana is a large commitment..."

Rather than roads, French Hotels for launch customers, presence of French goods in Carrefour, military presence and spaceport, there is barely anything credible for normal people. EU is spending money on government buildings and infrastructures, only.

"...The France government is willing to invest and negotiate. But you can't propperly negotiate when one party has a nife placed on his throat..."

France and Arianespace is benefitting from French Guiana since the last 50 years, without returning anything useful for local citizens. This is one sided relationship.

Even the knife is a metaphor on your statement, I have not seen anything like that in Guiana. People have already accepted and somehow benefitted French presence in this territory, but gains much much less than they deserve and they inherit nothing for their future generations from France.

"...I think the best results are accomplished when more work is created in France Guiana..."

I agree with that but it is not as simple as we can type here. Creating jobs requires investment. Invesment needs government subsidy. But French government subsidies the launch campaigns only, maybe a bit of other French companies like Carrefour, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot and Leclerc. But these companies employ white Europeans in general. The only local people I have seen at Arianespace facilities were guards at gate and cooks at the restaurant.

To employ local people, goverment shall provide better education, healtcare and living conditions and should offer a future for the .

The life at French Guiana is at the coast line only. The forest is very thick and it is protected together with all the animals within. You cannot create an economy by cutting the trees to create better ife to local people.   

Immigration is very intense at French Guiana. As the local economy is based on Euro currency while the country is in South America, the people from Brazil, Surinam, Guiana, Haiti, Colombia and Venezuela are coming to French Guiana. They generally work without insurance at local shops, bars and at illegal mines. And they live at flavas or slums in terrible conditions.

And this is happening at European Space Agency's or one European nation's backyard, where our glory civilisation reach the skies but ignore human beings.

Whose knife at whose neck now?
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 07:07 AM by osiossim »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #58 on: 04/15/2017 08:25 AM »
I heavily agree with the above.

I might add that France has a relatively good exchanges with its other former colonial territories (called Dom-Tom) such as Guadeloupe and Martinique, which are carribean islands not far from Guyana. But the mass tourism that is affordable and largely publicized in Guadeloupe or Martinique is not currently available in Guyana. This region could really benefit from other investments that space, because it has a huge potential for tourism. Properly developped, it has nearly all the right ingredients: coastline with carribean conditions, amazonian-type rivers, the primal forest with some of the most unknown territories ever, exotic species... All of this with rockets nearby!

What this region lacks is respect and consideration IMO. For years it has solely been a place where engineers and white european techs are send to launch rockets.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #59 on: 04/15/2017 10:33 AM »
Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport?  Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).  :(

Maybe Arianespace needs to dust off the Australian proposal from the late 1970s to have the launch site near Darwin. :-) Political stability was cited as one of the advantages, but we lost out since French Guyana is closer to France.

Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #60 on: 04/15/2017 11:04 AM »
Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport?  Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).  :(

Maybe Arianespace needs to dust off the Australian proposal from the late 1970s to have the launch site near Darwin. :-) Political stability was cited as one of the advantages, but we lost out since French Guyana is closer to France.

Wouldn't Darwin get a little wet sometimes though?
Not to take this post too far off topic, depending on what state Woomera is in wouldn't it be a better choice?

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #61 on: 04/15/2017 11:31 AM »
Woomera is inland. Dropping stages on land is frowned upon in the West these days.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #62 on: 04/15/2017 12:05 PM »
The knife statement was indeed metaphorically, I thought that was obvious.
If my impression is correct, not only the situation in France Guiana is bad, also in European France there is a lot of poverty. And most likely also in other overseas departments.
Indeed ESA/Arianespace is investing 600mln to upgrade the CSG facilities for Vega C and Ariane 6. Possibly a bit more work has/had to be sourced locally instead of contracting a mayor France construction company that ships in all it's employees.
If I'm not mistaken the France government offered to improve the living conditions in FG by allocating 1 billion additionally to FG. The people demand at least 3 billion. I fear that other areas of France are also going to thy to get more from the federal government. But the federal government has to decrease it's spending.
There live ~250 000 people in France Guiana, Right?. So the one billion equates to 4000 Euro per capita, that's a lot. The three billion would be more then 10k per capita. Who has to pay for that?

I find the statement, that FG hasn't profited from the spaceport, in contradiction to the fact that people are immigrating to FG from neighboring countries. The situation in FG must be beter than in the neighboring countries, otherwise the people wouldn't have migrated. So, same how, FG is better of then the other South American countries.
The people that work at CSG, live in FG. Those people spent their daily expenses in FG, so they stimulate the economy. If I'm not mistaken this is called the multiplier effect. You write that most shops are run by Chinese companies, so the money spend in FG flows out of the country. Is that a something where the government is allowed to interfere? Is it rightful that the France Government discriminates international companies by stimulating local companies? I have the impression that EU laws prohibit these practices {in appropriate state aid}.
The same is valid for aiding a commercial hospital. 250 000 people is not enough to have dokters perform operations frequently. That's why only regular operations can be executed in FG, for more specialized treatments a larger hospital has to be visited. Unfortunately there isn't enough population in FG to operate a large hospital, so people have to travel a far distance.

Am I mistaken, that in a well performing county, most work is private and not federal? A lot of times government regulation holds back investments and actions form private parties. I think the best results come when regulations are loosened a little bit. But arranging this will take multiple months of negotiation work.
Another referendum about more independence (this means also more financial responsibility), also require multiple months. I think it's totally unacceptable for CSG to be closed off during all this period. I think it's also very unlikely.
The first round of the France Presidential elections are at the April 23th, the second round is at May 7th.
I think if the strike is still continuing by then, it will be ended by National Gendarmerie.
The elections for the new National Assembly are June 11th and 18th. I will be very upset with France when they have allowed the strike to continue until the elections for the new National Assembly.
I expect that the new government will be occupied for a long time to solve the situation in FG.

I agree that the living conditions in FG should be improved. But aid from the France Government will not be a permanent solution. Structural improvements have to be found and that's very difficult and will take a long time.
In my oppinion, it is totally unacceptable that the CSG launch range is closed off all this time.
Start negotiating and let Arianespace resume launching. When the negotiation proces runs into a deadlock, then a new round of strikes could be considered. But if the strike continues untill the second half of May, the people of FG aren't looking for a better future. They are just disrupting the France national order, and then the state must act accordingly.

Indeed there is totally no reason for considering relocating ESA's launch base. This is just some internal France problem, that isn't solved soon because of the upcoming elections. Eventually there will be no winners here.
Look for example to AirFrance-KLM or Lufthansa. The strikes only worsen the financial situation, and thus increase the problem. So end the strike, start working again, and start negotiating to find a structural solution.

My view might be a bit blurred by what happend in Rotterdam last March.
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 01:18 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #63 on: 04/15/2017 12:33 PM »
Woomera is inland. Dropping stages on land is frowned upon in the West these days.

If they have to relocate the launch base. What Isn't going to happen. 
The large solids will be dropped, because building new facilities is far to expensive, and EU REACH regulations want's to get rid of AP-AL-HTPB anyway. It will take a long time to construct all the new launch facilities. So launches will be grounded until at least 2020. In such a situation I expect ESA to invest more in the new Prometheus engine. Possibly they can field a new launcher that uses multiple Prometheus engines in the first half of the 2020's. For the first stage possibly landing capability could be developed. Landing in a desolated desert (the center of Australia) might be easier than landing on a barge or ship in the ocean.
Let's stop discussing other launch-site locations, because it is totally not on the table.
Besides Australia isn't a member-state of ESA. The UK is, but BREXIT. And solving the situation in FG is much faster and costs much less then developing a new ESA launch site.

I hope the strike ends soon. Let Arianespace launch again and improve the living conditions in FG.
This harms the whole space industry. Now only ULA is a reliable western launch provider.
(SpX is 2years behind schedule, ILS (Proton)..., Arianespace Strikes.
A I forget IHI/JAXA with H2 and Epsilon, but can they ramp up production?

It just pups into my mind; that it might not be a coincidence, that this strike happens to ground a ComSat for Brazil. 
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 12:35 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #64 on: 04/15/2017 12:39 PM »
Splitting this off into pure updates and a discussion section is an option. But if it was split, I suspect the place for discussion would be Space Policy if anywhere... because the plight of the locals is a political matter. 

So, let's try to stay focused on the space related aspects of this. Some of the rhetoric has been a bit over the top. Talk of knives to the throat isn't helpful, so please dial that back. A lot.

Metadiscussion of this post will be deleted. If you have issues with my request, report to mods to buck it upstairs.  Thank you.
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Offline woods170

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #65 on: 04/15/2017 06:22 PM »
As a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #66 on: 04/15/2017 07:18 PM »
As a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).

This is totally insane and stupid. Are you seriously saying that France treats Guyana as an old-style colony ? really ? this is not French or Belgian Congo, damn it.
« Last Edit: 04/15/2017 07:22 PM by Archibald »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #67 on: 04/15/2017 09:05 PM »
As a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).

This is totally insane and stupid. Are you seriously saying that France treats Guyana as an old-style colony ? really ? this is not French or Belgian Congo, damn it.
No, not old-style colony. Even in Indonesia that had long since ended when WWII broke out. But as second rate to the "home"country... Yes, very much so is France still doing that.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #68 on: 04/15/2017 10:36 PM »
As a citizen from the Netherlands I find the current situation in French Guyana not surprising at all. France has been treating French Guyana like the Dutch treated Suriname and Indonesia (Dutch Indies) in the past. Having a one-sided relationship with a colony (solely for the better of the colonizing country) is a very bad thing, and will eventually backfire, as the French are now finding out. The Dutch learned that lesson the hard way in the late 1940's (Indonesia) and from the 1950's to the 1970's (Suriname).

This is totally insane and stupid. Are you seriously saying that France treats Guyana as an old-style colony ? really ? this is not French or Belgian Congo, damn it.
No, not old-style colony. Even in Indonesia that had long since ended when WWII broke out. But as second rate to the "home"country... Yes, very much so is France still doing that.

I personally have no idea whether France treats French Guyana well or poorly, and nothing in this thread offers any evidence one way or the other.  All I see is some people claiming it does and some claiming it doesn't.  What's the point of just claiming things without presenting any evidence?

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #69 on: 04/15/2017 10:38 PM »
Presenting evidence of how France treats French Guyana is off topic. So are the assertions without evidence. Second warning, thanks.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Online EgorBotts

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #70 on: 04/15/2017 11:09 PM »
One clear problem related to the french Guyana protests, and the reopening of CSG is clearly a bad timing. I'm french living in France, and all medias have solely focus on the coming elections (1rst round being next sunday). Hot topics around radios, televisions, even coffee breaks are the polls and politics. Not Guyana.

Protesters in Guyana have, IMO, a rightful cause but a bad timing. The outgoing government has made positive signs to resolve the situation, but cannot allow several billions without having final approval of the next government which could also just cut these funds. We are nearing a transition time and, since the actual government is not running for presidency again, a new politic will have to emerge about french Guyana... In about one month, when the new president will take office. Until then, its really down to two solutions, otherwise the space operations won't reopen:
- Protesters will slowly unlock the situation, hoping for a better tomorrow with the next political opportunity
- Government uses force, reopens the spaceport and related operations. Evidently not advised for the long term, as it would clearly mean "you people are less worthy than our major space company". Guyana people would not forget that and it would only deepen the "french colony" feeling.


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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #71 on: 04/16/2017 08:05 AM »
Is there any more recent public information how many people are actually employed at CSG?

I can only find relatively old numbers, e.g. 1100 around 1993 or 1500 around 2002.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #72 on: 04/16/2017 01:53 PM »
Quote
Update from #Kourou: the harbor in #Cayenne is slowly back in action, offloading some ships, roadblock are lifted for trucks until Tuesday

https://twitter.com/dutchspace/status/853570384729387008

Offline edkyle99

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #73 on: 04/17/2017 02:25 AM »
Has this situation cost Arianespace any launch commitments?  I haven't heard of any changes.  How long would it have to continue before payloads started to shift?

 - Ed Kyle

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #74 on: 04/17/2017 04:02 PM »
A new piece by Peter B. de Selding:

Quote
Europe spaceport’s long shutdown a threat to Arianespace schedule
April 17, 2017

[...]
In an indication of how the Guiana Space Center has come to symbolize the French state, the protesters maintained a roadblock of the spaceport access road while opening the others to traffic for the weekend.

https://www.spaceintelreport.com/europe-spaceports-long-shutdown-a-threat-to-arianespace-schedule

Offline Chasm

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #75 on: 04/17/2017 05:04 PM »
Has this situation cost Arianespace any launch commitments?  I haven't heard of any changes.  How long would it have to continue before payloads started to shift?

 - Ed Kyle


No obvious announcements so far.
Where are companies going to go on short notice? Other than Atlas V that is.

For me it boils down to 2 questions. When does launch resume? How long does it take to get back on schedule?
I'm not to clear on either one.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #76 on: 04/18/2017 06:30 AM »
Quote
Euro spaceport 1: ~300 Russians who operate Soyuz launches left Fr Guiana, returned to Russia by charter after ~ 4 wks of doing nothing.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/854218643407765504

Quote
Euro spaceport 1: Roadblocks back up in Fr Guiana; movement offers new face-saving deal of little cost to govt. Strike could end this week.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/854219831473733632

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #77 on: 04/18/2017 10:24 AM »
Might this be a good time for ESA to start looking around for a less-unfriendly location for their next spaceport?  Looks like this one's become unreliable (to the point of needing a backup, at least).  :(

Maybe Arianespace needs to dust off the Australian proposal from the late 1970s to have the launch site near Darwin. :-) Political stability was cited as one of the advantages, but we lost out since French Guyana is closer to France.



FG also closer to the equator...

But good point, I opt for Curaçao ;-)

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #78 on: 04/19/2017 10:41 AM »
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 2m2 minutes ago

Europe spaceport: Roadblocks up but movement consensus cracking; strikers review new govt proposal. Background ICYMI.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/854644940445495296

(Background refers to his article from the 17th posted upthread.)

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #79 on: 04/19/2017 12:00 PM »
Quote
Euro spaceport: Charismatic movement spokesman Mickael Mancee resigns, says roadblocks no longer in public interest, & says re: space center

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/854649491596693504

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #80 on: 04/19/2017 08:09 PM »
More about Russians leaving Kourou:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a7c4013&opt=0

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #81 on: 04/20/2017 06:50 AM »
Well, we are hitting one month blockade today. It seems that in the administration side, Arianespace is not that much impacted, they signed a new launch contract during a tour in Japan. (https://twitter.com/Arianespace/status/854900914162937857)

Press and radios briefly reporting that the movement and government are close to an agreement which is good news. My 2 cents guess (I'm no insider) is that even if operations start again tomorrow, the Ariane 5 launch would not happen before the end of the month, and as reported here, russian teams are not on site for Soyuz care.

Also I've raised concerns about the Ariane 6 launchpad construction, since this whole program is tight from the beginning.

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #82 on: 04/20/2017 09:15 AM »
Quote
Update from #kourou agreement might be close, meeting today, possible end in sight #VA236 #CSG

https://twitter.com/dutchspace/status/854976088874897408

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #83 on: 04/20/2017 11:56 AM »
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 1h1 hour ago

Euro spaceport: Roadblocks still up. Movement demands govt decree re additional funds that would bind next govt. (Elections Apr 23/May7).

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855008826311012352

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French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #84 on: 04/20/2017 12:47 PM »
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 1h1 hour ago

Euro spaceport: Roadblocks still up. Movement demands govt decree re additional funds that would bind next govt. (Elections Apr 23/May7).

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855008826311012352

That seems a reasonable request considering the fast approaching election.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2017 01:29 PM by Star One »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #85 on: 04/21/2017 12:14 PM »
Quote
Euro spaceport: Indications are that govt & Fr Guiana movement may sign deal today that would end month-long roadblocks.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855380585535156224

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #86 on: 04/21/2017 09:09 PM »
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 10m10 minutes ago

Euro spaceport:  Fr govt & protest movement sign accord; month-long paralysis ends, roadblocks removed; launch prep of ~ 10 days can start.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855525996698759169
« Last Edit: 04/21/2017 09:09 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Alastor

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #87 on: 04/21/2017 09:18 PM »
EDIT : source https://www.afp.com/fr/infos/334/vers-la-fin-du-conflit-en-guyane I missread previously, they obtained the 3billion €, apparently.

According to the information I could find, the agreements contains a funding plan of ~3 billion euros in the local infrastructures, as well as some more technical stuff, like the government giving some properties to the local administration and such.
The government was initially proposing 1 billion €, saying that 3 billion € was unrealistic.

Most roadblocks were removed throughout the day, before the final agreement was signed.

Since the protesters obtained most of what they were asking for, and since such a long and strong conflict is very difficult for both the population and the economy, that should be the end of the conflict.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2017 09:34 PM by Alastor »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #88 on: 04/21/2017 09:52 PM »
Quote
DutchSpace‏ @DutchSpace 20m20 minutes ago

Update from #kourou agreement signed, way foward being planned, #VA236 launch possible early May #CSG

https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/855534168486313985

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #89 on: 04/22/2017 05:42 AM »
SpaceNews write-up:

http://spacenews.com/french-guiana-accord-sets-stage-for-arianespace-resume-launches/

ArianeSpace still expects to do all it's planned launches this year. There was a gap now of a couple of months in their schedule which they'll use to catch up on the threee delayed launches.
« Last Edit: 04/22/2017 06:06 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #90 on: 04/22/2017 09:03 AM »
I've attached a pdf of the signed accord. [source, at the bottom]


Google translate version of the OCR, just cleaned up the formatting slightly:

GUYANA ACCORD
(21 April 2017)

PROTOCOL
POU LAGWIYANN DEKOLÉ

Guyana Agreement
Protocol "Pou Lagwîyann dékolé"
(21 April 2017)


PREAMBLE
On March 28, 2017, two historic marches brought together thousands of Guyanese people in the streets of Cayenne and Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni.
These demonstrations followed years of warning of the state and successive governments by the elected officials and of the demands of the population that intensified in 2017, expressing a feeling of abandonment by the Republic and demanding a just treatment And equitable, of the difficulties and challenges facing Guyana.
The movement reflected both a demand for more consideration by the Republic and the will of the Guyanese to take charge of their destiny to meet these challenges and to value the potentials of their territory.
These demands were expressed in dignity, in a spirit of responsibility and without overflow.
The Prime Minister initially sent an interministerial delegation led by Jean-François CORDET, former prefect of Guyana, to prepare discussions with the Pou Lagwiyann ​​De'kolé Collective. The Prime Minister asked the interior and overseas ministers to go to Guyana to hear the demands of the Collective, to provide immediate solutions to the most urgent problems and to conclude the present Guyana Agreement - Protocol "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé" .

The latter measures measures at different temporalities which, on the one hand, will serve as a seed for the development of the territory, on new bases and which, on the other hand, will reposition Guyana on a trajectory of "real equality >> converges with the rest of the national territory, in accordance with the provisions of article 72-3 of the Constitution, first paragraph.
Indeed, the answers provided by the State have never lived up to the peculiar and real difficulties that Guyana knows, which are not those of other overseas countries and even less those of other French communities, Rightly pointed out the Constitutional Council in its decision n ° 2016-589 QPC of 21 October 2016.

The exceptional population growth of Guyana, the immensity of its territory and the natural resources at its disposal require us to think of its development in different, innovative and adapted terms. This is reflected in the in-depth analysis of the list of demands submitted by the Collective to the two ministers.
The Collective and the elected representatives of this Protocol therefore demand that this unique situation of French Guiana be acknowledged by all.
Multiple claims require a differentiated approach to problem solving.
The importance of the approach and the substantive work of the Collective lies in the fact that it has succeeded in bringing together proposals for solutions emanating from multiple actors representing all facets of the Guyanese society and economy.
These proposals are also based on earlier approaches that have mobilized the active forces of Guyana, as well as its elected representatives, such as the Guidance Document of a "Development Pact for Guyana" of February 1999, the " Agreement on the future of Guyana "of 2001, or the negotiations on the future pact in 2016 (version of 12 September 2016)

They also come from numerous associations, trade unions and various institutions which form the Collective and whose non-exhaustive list is as follows:
The collective of the 500 brothers against delinquency, the association Trop Violans, the collective of the Iguanas of the West, the association Lavi Danbwa, the expropriated collective of Kourou, Citizen-Citizens of Guyana, SNUipp, FSU-Guyana , UNSA Education, MDAF-Guyane, UTEPE, STEG-UTG, CIPF-Guyana, South-Education-Guyana, the citizen teachers movement in western Guyana, standing students, Anowi opo, SNETAA-FO-Guyane, Collective of the Reeds of Mana and Awala-Yalimapo, the collective of the partners and friends of the school, the collective of the socioprofessionals of the economic sectors agricultural sector, The FEDELEC 973, the STVIIUG, the regional chamber of the social and solidarity economy of Guyana, the Culture collective, the STCG, the UGTR, the SDTG, the STIU, the leisure centers collective, the Union des entreprises de West-Guyanese, UTG CMCK, UTG Lighting, Coll Of the socio-professionals of the economic and agricultural sectors, the CCIG, the FTPE, the UTPEG, the UTG / CGT, the GRAFOGUY, Macrabo, Matoupan, Latè nou Gangan, Comou de Matoury, La Savane, IWA, the collective Toukans, CRSA Guyane, the collective for families and youth at risk, the local mission of Guyana, the 2nd chance association, Nexem, the UTG, the association SRDT, the inter-union association of the ARS, The association of practitioners of the Cayenne hospital center, UTG Central, UFAP-Unsa Guyane, the SNPPSUNS, the union of hoteliers - restorers cafetiers and discotheques of Guyana, the collectives A nou balé douvan nou the pot, Lawyers, UFAP-UnsJustice, Amerindian and Bushinenge Advisory Council, Nation T'leuyu, FOAG, ONAG, First Nations Collective; The Collectif LAWA, the collective Apatou, Sous le fromager, U weli, Anou even ke nou even, the forgotten Camopi, Sinnamary bulls, SGSI association, Nou bon ké sa movement, CREAAM, GROS-Guiana , The collective for the development of Art & Culture in French Guiana.
The Collective structured the claims initially listed in a list of demands of more than 400 pages by articulating them into 12 thematic clusters, each cluster having prioritized its requests in the short and medium term. It includes: Education; Theoretical study; Thermodynamics; Land and Taxation; Health, Social and Medico-social; Security and Justice; Issues relating to indigenous and bushinnged peoples; Questions relating to municipalities and local fi nances; Sport and Culture.
After work between the State and the Collective, statements of decisions have been drawn up between the State, represented by the Minister for Overseas France, duly mandated by the Prime Minister and having full powers to sign on behalf and On behalf of the State and the undersigned contracting parties forming part of the Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé Collective

Thus, on 2 April 2017, the French Overseas Minister proposed a first draft of an agreement known as the Guyana Agreement - "Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé" Protocol, containing an emergency plan for Guyana, rejected by the Collective, which considered that This plan of 1.086 billion euros was partly a simple rearrangement of allocations already programmed and that it was not able to catch up the endemic and structural delay of Guyana in terms of sanitary, educational, social and road infrastructures.


The contingency plan proposed by the State was detailed as follows:
° Creation of a security staff under the authority of the prefect;
° A squadron of mobile gendarmes will be based permanently in Guyana;
° Reinforcement of 50 gendarmes and policemen from 2017, then 90 additional gendarmes between 2018 and 2020; They are added to the 70 gendarmes and police already arrived in reinforcement by decision of the Minister of the Interior; The number of reservists in the gendarmerie will increase by 50%; They will increase from 200 to 300, thus promoting local employment and training;
° Entry of the priority security zone of Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni into its operational phase;
° Installation of an ultrasound system at Félix Eboué airport to combat drug trafficking;
° Establishment of mobile dams on National Roads 1 and 2;
° Immediate mobilization of the French diplomatic network to revitalize cooperation with neighboring countries in the field of justice and security, in particular to allow the readmission of convicted foreigners to their countries;
° Establishment of a tribunal de grande instance in Saint-Lament-du-Maroni;
° Construction of a judicial city in Cayenne;
° Construction of a penal institution in Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni for € 50 million;
° Abandonment of the proposed sale of the CMCK to a public sector project;
° Emergency delegation of 20 million euros to the CHAR for payment of its suppliers and 40 million euros to modernize the hospital;
° Allocation of 25 million euros to CHOG to strengthen its investment budget;
° Establishment of an exceptional € 5 million plan for disability policies;
° Assistance to the Collectivité Territoriale de Guyane in the construction of colleges and lycées for € 50 million per year over five years, ie € 250 million;
° Increase from 10 to 15 million euros per year in the state's allocation to municipalities to build schools over 10 years, ie 150 million euros;
° Doubling of the number of speakers in the mother tongue (LLM) in schools from the beginning of 2017;
° Free transfer to the Territorial Collectivity of Guyana and the communes of 250,000 hectares;
° Allocation of 400,000 hectares to indigenous peoples through the public establishment placed with the Great Customary Council of the Amerindian and Bushinue populations;
° Commitment by the State as early as 2017 to the doubling of the Larivot bridge; An envelope of 100 million euros will be dedicated to the works;
° Commitment by the State of a first tranche of the doubling of the RNl between Cayenne and Macouria and the RN2 between Cayenne and Matoury for an amount of 100 million euros;
° Launch of studies of a second tranche of the doubling of the RN1 for an amount of work in the order of 100 million euros;
° Commitment of the State to launch in 2017 the work of elaboration of a fiscal and social pact in Guyana to promote the restart of the economy;
° Payment of a cash advance of 4.5 million euros to the CTG to enable it to settle the invoices of the carriers;
° For fishermen and farmers, payment of aid managed by the Payment Services Agency up to 3.5 million euros for fishermen and 5.5 million euros for farmers and immediate dispatch of a mission Expertise to accelerate aid files and support GTC services;
° Establishment of two nautical facilities (type GRAGE with its crew for the eastern and western borders) and, in the meantime, the immediate use of the interministerial vessel GRAGE intensively against illegal fishing in the East;
° The State immediately notifies the European Commission that the new system of aid specific to the timber industry is subject to the general block exemption regulation (GERD);
° Transformation into an exceptional equilibrium subsidy of a loan of € 53 million granted by the AFD and the Caisse des dépôts et consignations, in order to allow the CTG to pay its bills in respect of Guyanese companies;
° The government will increase the share of CTG in the SRA compensation fund to € 50 million in 2017 and will maintain it at an equivalent level in 2018 and 2019, for a total of € 150 million;
° State payment to the CTG of € 9 million to offset the transfer to the municipalities of the share of the proceeds from dock dues in 2017.


In addition, the draft agreement of Guyana - Protocol "Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé" proposed by the Overseas Minister on 2 April included statements of decisions following workshops initiated by the State during the night of 1 ° 'To 2 April. These statements of decisions have not yet been formally agreed with the Collective.
Moreover, this same draft of the Guyana Agreement - "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé" protocol recalled that the Government could be informed by the Congress of elected representatives of Guyana of a draft of the statutory changes to be replied to in accordance with the provisions of Article 72-4 of the Constitution.
For this reason, the Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé Collective and the elected officials of Guyana then sent the Government an additional request for very urgent measures amounting to € 2.1 billion to fill the gaps in public facilities and to relaunch Opening up of
Isolated communes and the interior of Guyana.
The total cost of emergency measures requested by the Collective and the elected representatives is now € 3.119 billion. This figure is to be compared with the amount of nearly 5 billion €, over a 5-year deadline, proposed by the elected representatives in the framework of their work on the
Pact of the future in its version of September 12, 2016.
On April 4, 2017, a demonstration by the population of the same magnitude as the preceding ones led the Collective to request an audience with the director of the Guyanese Space Center and the president of the National Center for Space Studies By letter of April 9, 2017 addressed to the president of The Prime Minister confirmed clearly the contingency plan for Guyana adopted by the Council of Ministers on 5 April 2017 for an amount of 1.086 billion euros, without prejudice to the tax and social pact and without prejudice Further consideration of additional measures.


On 10 April 2017, in response to their letter, the President of the Republic sent a letter to Parliamentarians saying:
"This contingency plan will have to be supplemented by medium- and long-term measures which will find their place in the convergence plan for Guyana [...]. Complementary proposals which, after consultation with the State, e'las, the collective and other actors of civil society, will be included in the convergence plan. "" The draft protocol proposed to the Collective on Sunday 2 April Could thus be completed to support this approach ".
It follows that the collective analyzed this letter as a call for the resumption of dialogue and an invitation to negotiate an interruption of the movement on the basis:
- a supplement to the Contingency Plan with "additional measures";
- and a return to the draft Guyana Agreement - "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé" protocol of 2 April 2017, which included the possibility for the State to examine a new application for a statutory change to be presented to it by the Congress Of the elected representatives of Guyana.
On 11 April the Collectif sent a letter to the Prime Minister reminding him of the insufficiency of the measures announced and asking him to take a stand on the quantified measures presented in agreement between the elected representatives and the Collective.
By letter dated April 12, 2017, with a view to the interruption of the con fl ict, the Parliamentarians, the President of the Territorial Collectivity of Guyana and the President of the Association of Mayors of Guyana requested an appointment with the President of the Republic, Accompanied by a delegation of
Collective.


THAT IS WHY
The State, represented by the prefect of the Guyana region,

- The president of the territorial community of Guyana,
- The parliamentarians of Guyana,
- The president of the association of mayors of Guyana,
- The Collective "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé", represented by Mr. Davy RIMANE

Agree on the following elements which constitute the Guyana Agreement of 21 April 2017 - Protocol "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé":

O short term:
° The elected representatives and the Collective take note of the Contingency Plan for Guyana drawn up by the Council of Ministers of 5 April 2017 and attached to this Agreement for the amount of 1,086 billion without prejudice to the fiscal and social pact and additional measures;
° The State takes note of the request for additional measures submitted on 4 April 2017 by the elected representatives and the Collective and amounting to 2.1 billion euros. It undertakes to ensure that they are promptly given priority consideration to plan and implement an additional investment and operating plan;
° The State undertakes to cede 250,000 ha of land (private property of the State) free of charge to the Territorial Collectivity of Guyana and the communes. At the end of this transaction, additional free transfers could be envisaged. Moreover, the question of the State's land and its total retrocession will be on the agenda of the States-General of the Guyana Project 2017;
° The elected representatives and the Collective take note of the statements of decision resulting from the work carried out during the night from 1 to 2 April 2017. The unfinished discussions within the clusters of the Collective must be finalized as soon as possible. These records of decisions shall be annexed to this Protocol;
° The State, the elected representatives and the Collective, recalling the terms of the draft agreement of Guyana - Protocol "Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé" of 2 April 2017, drawn up by the State services: "the Government may be Congress of the elected officials of Guyana of a statutory or institutional project to which will be answered in accordance with the provisions of article 72-4 of the Constitution ", agree:
 - That the Government will be the subject of a referral by the Congress of the Elect of Guyana of a draft of the Statute, if necessary, by reference to the draft agreement on the future of Guyana adopted on 29 / 06/2001, and by extension to the Guyana Project. The President of the Territorial Collectivity of Guyana will convene a Congress for the opening of the works of the General States of the Guyana Project in 2017;
 - That, therefore, the Government will have to respond to this project in accordance with the provisions of Article 72-4 paragraph 2 of the Constitution. At the same time, the government is committed to making the necessary arrangements for the publication of a decree convening the Guyanese electorate for a public consultation on the statutory evolution according to a negotiated timetable between the CTG and the State.

O In the medium term:
The Elected, the Collective and the State agree on the future development of the Guyana Project resulting from the work of the States General, which will have longer-term ambitions for Guyana and will be discussed in tripartite format. State - Elected officials - Civil society.

O In any case:
The signatories undertake not to institute any disciplinary, civil, criminal or administrative proceedings (including road traffic offenses) against the participants in the movements of claims from February to April 2017.

This Guyana Agreement - "Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dékolé" Protocol includes this document as well as the Guyana Contingency Plan, annexed decision statements, ministerial letters referring to them and records of decisions, all forming a set of even
Legal value.
This Guyana Agreement - "Pou Lagwiyann ​​dékolé" Protocol is intended to supplement any document or accompanying plan drawn up by Guyanese public authorities. This agreement will be subject to interministerial validation under the aegis of the Prime Minister.
A follow-up committee of this Agreement, consisting of representatives of the State, the parliamentarians of Guyana, the Pou Lagwiyann ​​Dekolé Collective and the territorial communities of Guyana will meet at regular intervals on the initiative of one of the parties , To ensure the implementation of this Agreement.
The proceedings will be communicated to the local and national print and audiovisual media for publication.
Consequently, the Collective decides the lifting of the dams set up in the various communes of Guyana, upon signature of this Agreement by the parties and validation.
This protocol shall be published in the Official Gazette of the French Republic.


Done at Cayenne, on 21 April 2017,
'Signatories

The Prefect of the Guyana region
Martin JAEGER

For the collective << Pou Le Lagwiyann ​​dékolé)
Davy RIMANE

The President of the Territorial Collectivity of Guyana
Rodolphe ALEXANDRE

The Senator of Guyana
Georges PATIENT

The Senator of Guyana
Antonie KARAM

The deputy of the 2nd riding of Guyane
Chantal BERTHELOT

The deputy of the first riding of Guyana
Gabriel SERVILLE

The President of the Association of Mayors of Guxane
David RICHÉ

Offline Archibald

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #91 on: 04/22/2017 11:13 AM »
They got the 2.5 billion euros they wanted, albeit there might put some pressure on the new government in may and june.

Offline Alastor

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #92 on: 04/22/2017 02:50 PM »
Heard on the radio : Arianespace CEO claims the the protests cost the company around 500 000 €/day and around 10 000 000€ in total.

EDIT : Just remembered, he also added that he feels like Guyana was in a profound crisis, but since the negotiations allowed the protesters to obtain what they asked for, and since 3 billion € to invest is something that guarantees investments in Guyana's infrastructures will happen for a long time, this should bring a lot of stability to the place and guarantee that no such crisis should happen for a long time.

I May go back to the radio's website and try to find the exact quotation, but I think it about sums it up.

2nd EDIT : Managed to find the interview : http://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/crise-en-guyane/fin-du-conflit-en-guyane-arianespace-a-perdu-500-000-euros-par-jour-pendant-cette-crise-qui-a-dure-plus-d-un-mois_2157583.html

Question : "There is 1bn€ that is assigned and 2bn€ where we have to wait for the next government to validate it, which means that it could start again. Isn't that a problem for your clients ?"
Answer : "I don't think it will start again, because this is a very strong agreement that was signed. This 1bn€ will take some time to be spent and the 2bn€ that are expected is also a prospect that will take some time to happen. So I think that not only the situation will calm down, but it will do so for a long time. It was a very big crisis, but once that crisis is over, you come back much stronger, and that is what I expect to happen here. "

About the cost :
"It is a bit early to evaluate precisely the costs but it is certain that this month will have cost a lot. [...]. It may have cost up to 500 000€/day to Arianespace and all the partners of the space centre. [...] There is one important parameter, which is that if we can operate our 12 launches, which we are still very committed to do, the costs will be fairly limited. It is important both for us and our clients."

Other interesting elements grabbed from the interview :
 - The space centre employs directly 1700 people that live there permanently, and generates 9000 jobs overall, plus the people on mission that come to the space centre whenever there is a launch.
 - It generates 16% of the PIB of French Guyana, 16% of the jobs, and 40% of the private income.
 - Arianespace finances some social stuff like companionship and some student fellowship and is ready to do more if they can afford to. Overall, if it doesn't cost too much money, they are ready to support actions that could allow better relations with their environment,. they are and will continue to seek actions that could be developed in that direction, in coordination with local authorities.
« Last Edit: 04/22/2017 05:56 PM by Alastor »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: French Guyana protests - discussion and impact on launches
« Reply #93 on: 04/22/2017 04:56 PM »
Quote
All open. Full🚀operations restart Monday. We express to our dear customers our apologizes & we thank them for their support and patience.

https://twitter.com/arianespaceceo/status/855824667692724224

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