Author Topic: Space Force  (Read 7954 times)

Offline Rummy

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Space Force
« on: 04/05/2017 07:36 AM »
Thoughts on Congressman Rogers' call to institute a new Space Force that is a schism of the Air Force?

http://spacenews.com/rogers-calls-for-separate-space-corps-within-the-air-force/

Offline JBF

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #1 on: 04/05/2017 12:32 PM »
If anything a Space Force should be an offshoot of the Navy.  The Air Force has no experience running long term isolated platforms.
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Offline Mnethercutt

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #2 on: 04/05/2017 02:06 PM »
*Immediately changes desired AFSC...*
Don't worry, things can only go up from here.  Even if it explodes, the force of the explosion will probably make it go up a little.

Offline DarkenedOne

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #3 on: 04/05/2017 08:59 PM »
This will go nowhere. But one can always hope, right?

http://spacenews.com/u-s-air-force-creating-new-three-star-position-in-charge-of-space/

Airforce has been proposing to reorganize in response.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #4 on: 04/05/2017 11:24 PM »

Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #5 on: 04/06/2017 12:29 PM »
If anything a Space Force should be an offshoot of the Navy.  The Air Force has no experience running long term isolated platforms.

Wrong.   Thule, Shemya, Cavalier, Texas Towers, DEW line, etc

Offline JBF

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #6 on: 04/06/2017 01:24 PM »
If anything a Space Force should be an offshoot of the Navy.  The Air Force has no experience running long term isolated platforms.

Wrong.   Thule, Shemya, Cavalier, Texas Towers, DEW line, etc

Those are nothing compared to submarine operations and were always within driving distance of assistance. 
"In principle, rocket engines are simple, but thatís the last place rocket engines are ever simple." Jeff Bezos

Offline Mnethercutt

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #7 on: 04/06/2017 01:33 PM »
What experience does the Navy have with space?  The satellites they use are operated by the Air Force, correct?  Even though they've had experience with isolation, that's on a sub in the water.  AF has been working with space since it's inception.
Don't worry, things can only go up from here.  Even if it explodes, the force of the explosion will probably make it go up a little.

Offline clongton

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #8 on: 04/06/2017 02:44 PM »
Any new Space Force would not be the offshoot of any of the existing services. It would be entirely separate, drawing appropriate personnel from all the services to fill the needed skill sets to get started. Eventually it would be staffed by new people drawn from civilian life in the same way that the existing services are staffed today.
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Online edkyle99

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #9 on: 04/06/2017 04:03 PM »
Would a "Space Force" make better, more efficient use of space for defense purposes than the current set up?  Or, would it just add to inter-service rivalry and the resulting inefficiencies that sometimes develop?

By the way, to the suggestion that the Air Force has no experience with "long-term isolated platforms":  How about generations of GPS constellations?  How about early warning sats in GEO and beyond that have lasted more than two decades?  What about the Vela nuclear detection satellites that orbited one-third of the way to the Moon?  That was pretty isolated! 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 04:07 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline Lar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #10 on: 04/06/2017 04:07 PM »
The interservice rivalry on display here (where we are all well behaved ladies and gentlemen who have no particular axes to grind nor dollars on the line[1]) suggests that a new space force will get hated by all existing branches. :)

1 - right???
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline DarkenedOne

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #11 on: 04/06/2017 04:57 PM »
Any new Space Force would not be the offshoot of any of the existing services. It would be entirely separate, drawing appropriate personnel from all the services to fill the needed skill sets to get started. Eventually it would be staffed by new people drawn from civilian life in the same way that the existing services are staffed today.
Of course it would be an offshoot the Air Force currently owns all of the assets that such a force would need, and provides the services that such a force would provide.  It owns the military space ports, it owns and operates the satellites, and it has established relationships with space contractors.  It handles space surveillance.


Offline Lar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #12 on: 04/06/2017 05:01 PM »
By the way, to the suggestion that the Air Force has no experience with "long-term isolated platforms":  How about generations of GPS constellations?  How about early warning sats in GEO and beyond that have lasted more than two decades?  What about the Vela nuclear detection satellites that orbited one-third of the way to the Moon?  That was pretty isolated! 

I think this thread segued into a weird discussion based upon the belief that somehow this would involve crews of human beings operating in space, and the Navy is better for that than the Air Force. That's not what is being proposed at all.

But reality rarely slows down discussions in the policy section anyways, so I don't know why we should be surprised.

At some point in the future (far distant or never, per some, only decades, per some others) this discussion will involve personnel. Maybe... property rights (or their analogue that is still compatible with OST) are a huge open issue.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #13 on: 04/10/2017 01:31 PM »

Those are nothing compared to submarine operations and were always within driving distance of assistance. 

Wrong, they are more isolated than a mobile submarine

Offline eric z

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #14 on: 04/10/2017 06:05 PM »
 The United States Space Marines has a nice ring to it!
 When I was a kid my best friend was an Army guy-millions of little soldiers, etc. I touted the Navy-my reasoning being they had not just ships ranging in size from PT Boats to Battleships, but also their own Air Force on the carriers, subs that could fire off missiles and of course their own Army in the form of the Marines, which also had an Air Force itself. As a NRL-brat, the Vanguard rocket was also big in our house.
  Seriously, I may probably be in the minority here but I think the government has every right to have a non-commercially-driven ability to put and operate things in space, including manned and unmanned military assets if needed. Territorial greed will indeed follow humanity into the heavens, and sooner or later some entity is going to get greedy... Hopefully we can put that time off for quite awhile, but who knows?
  Of course, this is what reading too much Heinlein at an early age can do to you. ;)
« Last Edit: 04/10/2017 07:09 PM by eric z »

Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #15 on: 04/10/2017 06:36 PM »
The United States Space Marines has a nice ring to it!
 When I was a kid my best friend was an Army guy-millions of little soldiers, etc. I touted the Navy-my reasoning being they had not just ships ranging in size from PT Boats to Battleships, but also their own Air Force on the carriers, subs that could fire missiles off, and of course their own Army in the form of the Marines.
  Seriously, I may probably be in the minority here but I think the government has every right to have a non-commercially-driven ability to put and operate things in space, including manned and unmanned military assets if needed. Territorial greed will indeed follow humanity into the heavens, and sooner or later some entity is going to get greedy... Hopefully we can put that time off for quite awhile, but who knows?
  Of course, this is what reading to much Heinlein at an early age can do to you. ;)

Without turning this into a full discussion here (since this is really about the idea of some form of space force), the real question isn't does the US need a non-commercial ability to put stuff into space, but for what reason.  There could be very good reasons for it (example - probably no commercial provider really wants to be the operator of a ASAT vehicle). 

Anyway, I'm done for now.
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #16 on: 04/10/2017 06:51 PM »
 Star Wars vs Star Trek? One has admirals and one has generals.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #17 on: 04/10/2017 10:20 PM »
You guys are missing the most important points.  Who will win the first army vs. Space Force football game?  Will the term space cadet still have a slightly negative connotation?  Why isn't the proposed space force being called Star Fleet?   Will the service academy be in San Francisco?  Will the Pentagon want to outfit the Force with X-Wing fighters?  who will win the contract? Boeing? Lockheed? Northrup? Or will the Direct Team come out of retirement to design the fighter? Will the Force be with this new branch? :) ;) :D

Offline Lar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #18 on: 04/10/2017 10:26 PM »
This isn't a party thread.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #19 on: 04/10/2017 10:48 PM »
 How would SAC fit in? It's pretty heavily involved in space ops, which you can't just separate it out of it's air ops. Does Rep. Rogers Intend for the NRO to be under this command? There are reasons it exists as a civilian (sort of) operation.

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