Author Topic: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?  (Read 3013 times)

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« on: 03/27/2017 07:05 PM »
How practical would it be to give american citizens tax exemptions for the time periods when they are in space.

It seems like a simple idea.

Obviously it's a loss in revenue and at some point needs to be capped but it seems like the kind of space initiative that could really ramp up space exploration quite fast.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #1 on: 03/27/2017 07:13 PM »
Tax exemptions from what?

If you mean the tax-free purchases of goods, as is commonly done on cruise liners when they are in international waters, I'd say that's a given. Space is effectively "international waters."
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #2 on: 03/27/2017 07:15 PM »
I meant on income tax

I.e. every day on the moon means 1million dollars that cannot be taxed.

Offline VIY

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #3 on: 03/27/2017 07:38 PM »
I meant on income tax

I.e. every day on the moon means 1million dollars that cannot be taxed.

They are there to enjoy themselves. Why should they be tax exempt?

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #4 on: 03/27/2017 07:42 PM »
Trouble is 5 of the 7 spaceflight participants who have flown to date were from the USA and no such special measures was taken for them. I don't see the need, and it's unlikely Congress would either. They already paid $20-40 million to go to space (for 8-15 days) and some portion of that would have been taxes.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #5 on: 03/27/2017 07:51 PM »
I meant on income tax

I.e. every day on the moon means 1million dollars that cannot be taxed.

They are there to enjoy themselves. Why should they be tax exempt?

Because they don't have to go. They can choose to spend their money as they please.

Instead of funnelling that money through the taxation system and giving it to nasa why not cut out the middle man.

The benefit asides from the economies of scale of incrased traffic is that these people might choose to invest even more money into space itself.


You tax me 10 million and give it to an astronaut.

That astronaut might enjoy the trip but he's not gonna turn around and invest another 10 million installing a basketball court on some space station.

In turn that astronaut isn't gonna pay an additional premium to use that basketball court nor will they start a business where athletes go up to play on that court.
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 07:52 PM by Landfound »

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #6 on: 03/27/2017 07:57 PM »
Trouble is 5 of the 7 spaceflight participants who have flown to date were from the USA and no such special measures was taken for them. I don't see the need, and it's unlikely Congress would either. They already paid $20-40 million to go to space (for 8-15 days) and some portion of that would have been taxes.

I'm not sure how that is a problem. It's not a tax cut for everyone it's a conditional system.

You must meet the qualification and adhere to a cap.

Ignoring the fact that you would directly increase demand tipping the scales in the form of investment, most importantly you'd create a way of rapidly expanding the space budget without having to take monies directly from another government program.

Yes technically revenue is being lost but potentially it could lead to a situation that people are investing a number far greater than their exemptions in the long run.

When funnelling money directly through nasa your contingent on that money being constant.

With this system government can stimulate growth without being responsible for it.
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 07:59 PM by Landfound »

Offline VIY

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #7 on: 03/27/2017 08:11 PM »
I meant on income tax

I.e. every day on the moon means 1million dollars that cannot be taxed.

They are there to enjoy themselves. Why should they be tax exempt?

Because they don't have to go. They can choose to spend their money as they please.

...
In turn that astronaut isn't gonna pay an additional premium to use that basketball court nor will they start a business where athletes go up to play on that court.

This pretty much applies to many other things. You go to a concert, but you don't have to go, you could have spent the money elsewhere and instead of supporting the band, leave it to the government to support art and music.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #8 on: 03/27/2017 08:23 PM »
This falls under the misconception that if taxes are removed, then suddenly everyone will do a thing. It's not true, especially of a thing that is so very expensive that only a few people can even afford it, never mind that even fewer of those people are interested in doing it.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #9 on: 03/27/2017 08:36 PM »
I meant on income tax

I.e. every day on the moon means 1million dollars that cannot be taxed.

They are there to enjoy themselves. Why should they be tax exempt?

Because they don't have to go. They can choose to spend their money as they please.

...
In turn that astronaut isn't gonna pay an additional premium to use that basketball court nor will they start a business where athletes go up to play on that court.

This pretty much applies to many other things. You go to a concert, but you don't have to go, you could have spent the money elsewhere and instead of supporting the band, leave it to the government to support art and music.


Yes absolutely.

This is why filming locations are heavily supported by governments.

Canada didn't take over the film industry by being warm.


Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #10 on: 03/27/2017 08:45 PM »
This falls under the misconception that if taxes are removed, then suddenly everyone will do a thing. It's not true, especially of a thing that is so very expensive that only a few people can even afford it, never mind that even fewer of those people are interested in doing it.

I think the ratio we can somewhat assume is 1 percent of people will divert funds from their regular entertainment to space. I.e. the guy that is gonna hire led zeppelin for his 50th birthday and play a million bucks, may choose to goto space instead.


Keeping in mind money is distributed in a rather steep pyramid pattern, meaning a 50 percent reduction in cost is more than doubles your demand.


Initially it's not the cost of the plain ticket that is being written off but the entire time one is in space.

So if you make 100 million a year and are in space for 6 weeks you'd get 50 million exempt even if the cost to launch is much lower.

You can keep adjusting the exemption rate over time.
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 08:47 PM by Landfound »

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #11 on: 03/27/2017 09:07 PM »
1. Among the people who can afford to go to space, there's not a great deal of interest in going to space. Per a news report from 2013 there are nearly 200,000 people worldwide with a net worth over $30 million

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-29/there-are-199235-ultra-high-net-worth-people-world-over-30-million-assets

and over those nearly 200,000 people who could theoretically afford to go to space if they so desired, precisely 7 people have gone to space. About twice that number have shown some interest in doing various space tourism ventures, but it hasn't happened. If we use your number of 1%, some 2,000 people may be interested and able to afford spending their money on space tourism.

Those with a net worth over $100 million are even fewer, only some 23,800. 1% of 23,800 is 238.

and so

2. there's zero reason for the government to give a tax break to them, much less there'd be any actual stimulus to the space tourism industry by doing so.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #12 on: 03/27/2017 09:30 PM »

and over those nearly 200,000 people who could theoretically afford to go to space if they so desired, precisely 7 people have gone to space. About twice that number have shown some interest in doing various space tourism ventures, but it hasn't happened. If we use your number of 1%, some 2,000 people may be interested and able to afford spending their money on space tourism.

Those with a net worth over $100 million are even fewer, only some 23,800. 1% of 23,800 is 238.

That's a severely flawed argument.

being worth 20 million doesn't mean you can afford to spend it.


200,000 people worldwide with a net worth over $30 million

If we use your number of 1%, some 2,000 people may be interested and able to afford spending their money on space tourism.

Those with a net worth over $100 million are even fewer, only some 23,800. 1% of 23,800 is 238.

Your proving my point.

By reducing the price by 2/3rds you get nearly 10 times the demand.

Which means that making it cost half as much doesn't increase the amount being spent on space by a factor of two but even more than that.

This is the entire justification.

If the demand is 7 at 40 million its 70 at 14 mill, 700 at about 5 million, 7000 1.666 million, and 70000, at 500k, 700,000 at 166k and 7 million at 50 k.

Obviously nothing exact.

But it illustrates the point.

If you combine tax incentives with the fact that these people are vacationing and therefor may potentially spend even more as prices decrease you can make space tourism a way of generating investment. 
« Last Edit: 03/27/2017 09:43 PM by Landfound »

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #13 on: 03/27/2017 09:52 PM »
The "flaw" is the point - there's not very many people who can afford to spend the money on spaceflight.

Where is the reduction in price by the various numbers you are pulling from the void coming from???
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Proponent

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5017
  • Liked: 730
  • Likes Given: 498
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #14 on: 03/27/2017 09:56 PM »
Regardless of whether such a tax break would have any stimulating effect on lunar voyages, I struggle to imagine a less popular, more politically impossible tax break.  Wealthy people do, in fact, get all kinds of tax breaks (Warren Buffet pointed out that he pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary), but I cannot picture a senator or representative wanting to be associated with a tax break aimed for fabulously wealthy lunar tourists.  Even Donald Trump might be embarrassed to propose this.

Offline pippin

  • Regular
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
  • Liked: 267
  • Likes Given: 39
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #15 on: 03/27/2017 09:59 PM »

Canada didn't take over the film industry by being warm.


And the effects obviously haven't been to _anybody's_ benefit
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/no-hollywood-ending-visual-effects-industry/

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #16 on: 03/27/2017 10:01 PM »
The "flaw" is the point - there's not very many people who can afford to spend the money on spaceflight.

Where is the reduction in price by the various numbers you are pulling from the void coming from???
The numbers you posted.

30 million plus category 200,000

100 million plus 20,000

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #17 on: 03/27/2017 10:02 PM »

Canada didn't take over the film industry by being warm.


And the effects obviously haven't been to _anybody's_ benefit
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/no-hollywood-ending-visual-effects-industry/
I don't remotely see the relation



Offline whitelancer64

Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #18 on: 03/27/2017 10:04 PM »
The "flaw" is the point - there's not very many people who can afford to spend the money on spaceflight.

Where is the reduction in price by the various numbers you are pulling from the void coming from???
The numbers you posted.

30 million plus category 200,000

100 million plus 20,000

You were pulling numbers out of thin air and declaring the price will be reduced by that much.

How is the price being reduced?
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Landfound

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Terra Nova
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Giving tax exemptions to space tourist?
« Reply #19 on: 03/27/2017 10:07 PM »
Regardless of whether such a tax break would have any stimulating effect on lunar voyages, I struggle to imagine a less popular, more politically impossible tax break.  Wealthy people do, in fact, get all kinds of tax breaks (Warren Buffet pointed out that he pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary), but I cannot picture a senator or representative wanting to be associated with a tax break aimed for fabulously wealthy lunar tourists.  Even Donald Trump might be embarrassed to propose this.

Saying a outrageous tax cut won't happen and then pointing to outrageous tax cuts isn't really solid.

As I said it's not a your accountant files type situation.

It's a you apply for the program they review your numbers and you get accepted.

Tags: