Author Topic: Ariane 5 - EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 - 2017-mid  (Read 13135 times)

Offline gongora

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Ariane 5 - EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 - 2017-mid
« on: 07/21/2016 03:01 PM »
Edit/Dec. 2016: Launch vehicle changed from SpaceX Falcon to Ariane 5

Discussion Thread for Falcon Heavy launch with EuropaSat/HellasSat 3.

Resources:

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

=--=

SpaceX GENERAL Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions NOT specific to this mission.

SpaceX MISSIONS Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0 - this section is for everything specific to SpaceX missions.


If Falcon Heavy actually starts flying around the end of 2016 then this should be the third FH flight.

If Falcon Heavy is delayed much longer then it could switch to Proton - SpaceNews Mar 8 2016: Fearing SpaceX Falcon Heavy delays, Inmarsat reserves ILS Proton

Inmarsat Jul 2 2014: launch contract announcement originally mentioned in this NSF thread Topic: Inmarsat to use SpaceX for satellite launches (mods can merge this over if you need to).

Thales Alenia Space Contract Announcement
Quote
Cannes, June 5, 2014 – Thales Alenia Space announced today that it will construct a powerful telecommunications condominium satellite, Inmarsat S – Europasat / Hellas-Sat 3, for Inmarsat and Hellas-Sat. The satellite will provide Mobile Satellite Services (MSS), Fixed Satellite Services (FSS) and Broadcast Satellite Services (BSS).

The MSS payload is designed to deliver an S-band service across all 28 member states of the European Union; the FSS/BSS coverage zones are Europe, Middle East and Southern Africa. The Inmarsat S – Europasat payload will offer enhanced mobile services across Europe through a hybrid network, which combines S-Band satellite services with a Complementary Ground Component (CGC) infrastructure. Inmarsat S – Europasat will serve the aviation passenger connectivity services, as well as the safety services for Public Protection & Disaster Relief (PPDR) all over Europe. The Hellas-Sat 3 payload will deliver DTH and Telecom services in its designated coverage areas, maintaining and expanding Hellas-Sat business reach with additional capacities.
...
Built on the Spacebus 4000 C4 platform from Thales Alenia Space, Inmarsat S – Europasat / Hellas-Sat 3 will deliver a multi-beam mission in S-band and Ka-band for Inmarsat as well as a powerful Ku/Ka-Band mission of 44 Ku and 1 Ka transponders for Hellas-Sat. The satellite will weigh about 5.9 tonnes at launch and will offer payload power of about 12.3 kW. Inmarsat S – Europasat / Hellas-Sat 3 will be positioned at 39° East.
...

Inmarsat Progress update (found after seeing this tweet from Peter B. de Selding)
Quote
21 July 2016: Inmarsat, the world’s leading provider of global mobile satellite communications, announced today that construction and associated sub-system tests of the satellite for its market-changing European Aviation Network (EAN) in-flight connectivity solution has been completed on schedule by Thales Alenia Space.

The key milestone was achieved on schedule following an extensive two-year build process in Toulouse and Cannes, France. The completed S-band payload module was shipped in early July to Thales Alenia Space’s testing center in Cannes, where satellite integration (‘mating’) was also successfully completed.  The satellite is now undergoing rigorous system end-to-end testing before it is declared ready for flight in 2017.
...
Over the coming months, Inmarsat’s new S-band satellite will be put in a thermal vacuum chamber with no pressure to simulate the space environment and cycled through extreme high and low temperatures to ensure it operates nominally. Mechanical and acoustic testing will then replicate the launch environment, followed by final phase testing to compare any shifts or variations in measurements against the initial base line. Once these tests are complete, the satellite will be prepared for launch by SpaceX at Cape Canaveral in Florida, scheduled to take place in 2017.
...

Satellite under construction [Photo Source: Thales Alenia Space]




EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 on Gunter's Space Page

« Last Edit: 12/08/2016 02:18 PM by gongora »

Offline LM13

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SpaceNews article on delays of HellasSat:

http://spacenews.com/inmarsat-citing-spacex-delays-to-miss-european-deadline-for-aeronautical-broadband-service/

The delays raise the possibility that they will lose rights to some portion of the radio spectrum, but there is also the suggestion that it might go up on Falcon 9 instead of Falcon Heavy.  It would be a later Falcon 9 flight (2Q 2017 vs. 1Q for FH), suggesting that that would be a back-up plan if FH has teething troubles. 

Offline hkultala

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So the satellite is of such size that it can be launched with Falcon Heavy while reusing all cores, or can also be launched with F9 on fully expendable mode?


Online Brovane

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So the satellite is of such size that it can be launched with Falcon Heavy while reusing all cores, or can also be launched with F9 on fully expendable mode?

According to this article (https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/thales-alenia-space-build-joint-satellite-inmarsat-and-hellas-sat) the Satellite mass will be 5.9 tons at launch.  This would mean that the satellite could be launched by the F9 in full expendable mode.  The F9 in expendable mode could probably put the satellite into super-synchronous orbit to shorten the satellites time to it's final orbit.  Maybe make up a little for all the delays. 
 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Dante80

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This was pretty much expected, SX is behind schedule as far as their manifest is concerned.
 
Quote
We have been talking to SpaceX about different options,” Inmarsat spokesman Christopher McLaughlin said. “It’s never easy to fix a launch date far in advance but as of now it appears that we can get a Falcon Heavy launch in the first quarter of 2017, or a Falcon 9 launch in the second quarter.”
 
This one is interesting. One of the main reasons this payload was booked on FH in the first place is that it was too heavy for DPL with F9. The fact that SX is quoting a F9 FT option for Q2 2017 might mean one of the three following things.
 
1. F9 FT in Q2 2017 will be able to cover this mass and still perform DPL.
2. SpaceX is offering a SES-9 style campaign, with a very small possibility for successful landing to offset the delay.
3. SpaceX is offering an expendable F9 launch with max performance to offset the delay.   
« Last Edit: 08/03/2016 05:42 PM by Dante80 »

Offline John Alan

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4. Option 3 with used but nice S1....  ;)

Online Brovane

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This was pretty much expected, SX is behind schedule as far as their manifest is concerned.
 
Quote
We have been talking to SpaceX about different options,” Inmarsat spokesman Christopher McLaughlin said. “It’s never easy to fix a launch date far in advance but as of now it appears that we can get a Falcon Heavy launch in the first quarter of 2017, or a Falcon 9 launch in the second quarter.”
 
This one is interesting. One of the main reasons this payload was booked on FH in the first place is that it was too heavy for DPL with F9. The fact that SX is quoting a F9 FT option for Q2 2017 might mean one of the three following things.
 
1. F9 FT in Q2 2017 will be able to cover this mass and still perform DPL.
2. SpaceX is offering a SES-9 style campaign, with a very small possibility for successful landing to offset the delay.
3. SpaceX is offering an expendable F9 launch with max performance to offset the delay.

Option 3 - When was this contract originally signed?  2014-2015? 

That is one of the great things about the F9 and it's 1st stage recovery.  You have a mission that is beyond the ability to recover the booster but still within the capability of the LV if you discard 1st stage recovery.  Not so long ago, every GTO launch was no go for recovery.  You simply remove the landing hardware and use the LV as a full expendable vehicle.  Their is no expensive investment in manufacturing of the 1st stage to make the stage recoverable and the hardware is removable.  You have essentially the best of both worlds, a recoverable 1st stage that can still be launched as a expendable. 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Kansan52

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"It's launch services not rockets that are being sold" echoes in my mind.

Offline wannamoonbase

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FH being delayed till sometime in 2017 and this being Q2 of 17 is tight planning.  Also, if the client won't accept a reused vehicle SpaceX would have to build a fresh FH.  That's a lot of metal to bend and Merlin's to build.

Throw it uphill with an expendable F9 FT+. 

It would be good nostalgia to see an expendable launch.
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Online guckyfan

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Building a new one is not a problem at that time. They will want a few of them in stock.

Offline AncientU

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FH being delayed till sometime in 2017 and this being Q2 of 17 is tight planning.  Also, if the client won't accept a reused vehicle SpaceX would have to build a fresh FH.  That's a lot of metal to bend and Merlin's to build.

Throw it uphill with an expendable F9 FT+. 

It would be good nostalgia to see an expendable launch.

This is an interesting 'feature' of the new FT version, being able to cover for FH on payloads between 5500 and 8300kg.  Earlier it was mentioned that the FH would be cheaper in fully reusable mode than expendable F9, but good to have a back-up capability so payloads like EuropaSat are not lost to others.  The pair of ViaSats at 6400kg fall  nicely into that category.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline gongora

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This is an interesting 'feature' of the new FT version, being able to cover for FH on payloads between 5500 and 8300kg.  Earlier it was mentioned that the FH would be cheaper in fully reusable mode than expendable F9, but good to have a back-up capability so payloads like EuropaSat are not lost to others.  The pair of ViaSats at 6400kg fall  nicely into that category.

SpaceX is only launching one of the ViaSat satellites.

Offline friendly3

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It would be good nostalgia to see an expendable launch.

Huh? No thanks.

Offline Dante2121

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4. Option 3 with used but nice S1....  ;)

This.  In fact I think we should expect this to become the norm. Use the stage x times then send it up in expendable mode.  X would be 2 here - but will grow to 10+ as everyone gets more comfortable with reuse.

Offline wannamoonbase

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It would be good nostalgia to see an expendable launch.

Huh? No thanks.

If you have a contract and you can make a good profit why not?

After all recovery is still experimental.
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Offline friendly3

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I was responding to the "expendable nostalgia" stuff.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 08:16 PM by friendly3 »

Offline wannamoonbase

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I was responding to the "expendable nostalgia" stuff.

Then, you're really going to dislike the Red Dragon launch when they splash 3 cores.
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Offline stoker5432

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Then, you're really going to dislike the Red Dragon launch when they splash 3 cores.

Musk already confirmed the side cores would be recovered on the Red Dragon mission. He wasn't so sure about the center core, but didn't rule it out.

Online Robotbeat

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...

Then, you're really going to dislike the Red Dragon launch when they splash 3 cores.
We should have a thread devoted to making fun of confident naysayers like this post after they're proven wrong. :)
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline Star One

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...

Then, you're really going to dislike the Red Dragon launch when they splash 3 cores.
We should have a thread devoted to making fun of confident naysayers like this post after they're proven wrong. :)

Looking at the SLS threads one would hope that equally applies to yourself.

Offline Lar

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Let's not have a thread where we poke fun at people, thanks.  Let's also not debate just how big of a waste[1] SLS is in this thread. BETEO.

1 - before you decide I got a sly dig in, please remember that "how big" includes "zero" (waste).
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline gongora

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Enough with the Mars stuff already.  This is the Europasat mission thread.

Offline gongora

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So Inmarsat 5 F4 really is launching on Falcon, and EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 may move to a different launch vehicle but final decision not made yet.

SpaceNews: Inmarsat, juggling two launches, says SpaceX to return to flight in December
Quote
Inmarsat has three launch contracts with SpaceX. Up to now, it had planned to launch its Inmarsat 5-F4 Ka-band broadband mobile communications satellite on a Falcon 9 in late 2016; an S-band aeronautical-connectivity satellite on a new Falcon Heavy rocket in early 2017; and the first of the Inmarsat-6 satellites after that.
Quote
Inmarsat has decided to stick with SpaceX for the 5-F4 satellite, but to seek alternatives for the mid-2017 S-band satellite launch.

“It’s largely a function of where you are in the manifest,” Pearce said of Inmarsat’s launch reasoning. “With Inmarsat 5 F4, we’re well up in the queue — I think we are number five or six.
...
With the S-band EAN satellite, he said, the reasoning is different.

“We are further [back in] the queue and therefore there’s a risk of further delays because SpaceX not only has to get back to flight but to demonstrate that it can maintain a very good launch schedule. So you could presumably have a day-to-day delay.
...
Pearce said it remain possible that SpaceX will be able to confirm a May or June launch, but that would be difficult to achieve in the deadline Inmarsat has to find an alternative rocket.
...
“It’s probably more likely we would look to exercise one of the options we have been quietly cultivating behind the scenes,” Pearce said. “We’ve talked about one of them, which is the [International Launch Services] Proton launch that we have up our sleeve anyway. But we do have other options as well...”

Offline Tony Stark in a Cave

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Why would Inmarsat not switch this to a Falcon 9 launch, like they hinted at in August?  Furthermore, why would they not swap it with Inmarsat 5 F4 (which weighs more), as this satellite is so much more important for the company financially?

Offline gongora

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Why would Inmarsat not switch this to a Falcon 9 launch, like they hinted at in August?  Furthermore, why would they not swap it with Inmarsat 5 F4 (which weighs more), as this satellite is so much more important for the company financially?

If this launch stays with SpaceX then it will almost certainly launch on F9.  As for swapping, Inmarsat 5 F4 was probably finished first and they may actually want it to be launched.  If they have options for launching EuropaSat then why would they leave Inmarsat 5 F4 sitting on the ground?

There may be a LOT of payloads ahead of EuropaSat on the SpaceX manifest.  I count about 18 payloads listed for SpaceX through the first half of 2017.  If EuropaSat is towards the end of that list (I don't know how many payloads are ahead of it but Inmarsat implied it's not near the top) and SpaceX started launching twice a month in December, it could potentially be July/August before even an F9 is available.  If SpaceX can't sustain twice a month starting in December it could take even longer.  It's easy to understand why Inmarsat is looking at whether to switch this payload to another launch provider (but we still don't know if they will or not).
« Last Edit: 11/08/2016 07:08 PM by gongora »

Offline russianhalo117

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Per NSF Russian Launch Schedule: EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 has been reassigned to fly on launcher Proton-M. SpaceX contract for flight of EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 was not cancelled, rather another company payload (unknown) will fly on the booked flight on an unknown date.

2017
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time

...
Not early than the second quarter - Europasat (HellasSat-3) – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur
...

Changes on November 29

Offline gongora

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Re: Ariane 5 - EuropaSat/HellasSat 3 - 2017-mid
« Reply #26 on: 12/08/2016 02:20 PM »
Launcher changed to Ariane 5 in mid-2017

Inmarsat shifts satellite from SpaceX to Arianespace

Offline bolun

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