Author Topic: Vector Space Systems  (Read 30493 times)

Online savuporo

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Vector Space Systems
« on: 04/26/2016 04:23 PM »
Looks like Garvey spacecraft will be called Vector Space Systems now.

http://spaceref.biz/company/spacex-founding-team-launches-vector-space-systems-to-redefine-space-commerce.html
http://vectorspacesystems.com/

Awesome that there is a team and confirmed funding now

EDIT: according to TechCrunch, first flights in 2017
http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/26/vector-space-systems-aims-to-launch-satellites-by-the-hundreds/
Quote
Dozens of sub-orbital flights have been made, and orbital deployment is the next test. If all goes well, Vector hopes to be making its first real flights in 2017.

Looks like all the Prospector flights count as Vector flights
« Last Edit: 04/26/2016 04:30 PM by savuporo »
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Offline Proponent

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #1 on: 04/26/2016 04:52 PM »
EDIT: according to TechCrunch, first flights in 2017
http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/26/vector-space-systems-aims-to-launch-satellites-by-the-hundreds/
Quote
Dozens of sub-orbital flights have been made, and orbital deployment is the next test. If all goes well, Vector hopes to be making its first real flights in 2017.

Interpreting "real flight" as orbital, I'm going to take the forecast with a grain of salt.

Technically, it's another pressure-fed launcher, but this time there appear to different engine designs for the first and second stages (would think that doesn't help keep costs down).  The single thing I find most intriguing is that the fuel is to be an "advanced hydrocarbon."  Hopefully, then, we'll get something more interesting than RP-1 or methane.  The first the the term "advanced" suggests to me is something synthetic and exotic, like syntin or quadricyclane.  Expensive fuels like that seem unlikely, though, for a low-cost commercial microsat launcher.  Garvey has been the foremost proponent of propylene in the past and has flown it.  I wonder whether it might finally get its day in the sun....
« Last Edit: 04/26/2016 04:53 PM by Proponent »

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #2 on: 04/26/2016 04:57 PM »
Technically, it's another pressure-fed launcher, but this time there appear to different engine designs for the first and second stages (would think that doesn't help keep costs down).  The single thing I find most intriguing is that the fuel is to be an "advanced hydrocarbon."  Hopefully, then, we'll get something more interesting than RP-1 or methane.  The first the the term "advanced" suggests to me is something synthetic and exotic, like syntin or quadricyclane.
Garvey has been flying LOX/Propylene for years
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Offline Proponent

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #3 on: 04/26/2016 05:28 PM »
Yeah, I must accidentally posted a version of my post without that fact in it -- I was "thinking out loud" as I wrote.

The Garvey Spacecraft Corporation's website lists the P-19 rocket with a 5000-lb-thrust lox/propylene engine as a "current project" as of April 2015.  It looks like the P-19 is testing the engine for the microsat launcher, which is to have three 5000-lb engines.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #4 on: 04/26/2016 05:59 PM »
Propylene has the distinction of being an advanced hydrocarbon that is super cheap and storable at room temp under slight pressure (like a typical pump-fed ullage pressure, not even counting the high pressures of a pressure-fed rocket). And it gets a big boost in density from cryogenic subchilling, and nearly as good Isp as methane.

Good choice. Also like that they're going to reuse the rocket. I bet they'll go with an Armadillo Aerospace style guided Parafoil recovery.
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Offline Proponent

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #5 on: 04/26/2016 06:04 PM »
Having been asking "Why not propylene?" for years, I am actually sort of irrationally excited about the prospect of lox-propylene making it to prime time, even though it's not really totally new news.  However, just as propylene hits the news, my enthusiasm for propylene in first-stage applications has sagged a bit (see the 3rd plot in this post).

EDIT "prime" -> "prime time"
« Last Edit: 05/18/2016 04:48 PM by Proponent »

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Offline Tuts36

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #7 on: 04/26/2016 07:29 PM »
Apparently they either acquired and/or merged are somehow affiliated with Garvey Spacecraft Corporation.


Here's a quote from http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/04/this-company-believes-baby-rockets-have-a-big-future-in-space/

Quote
In late 2015, he called John Garvey, whose company Garvey Spacecraft Corporation had been working on such a rocket, and together they decided to found a new company called Vector. The company is developing a rocket with a reusable first stage that can deliver up to 25kg to a 400km Sun-synchronous orbit. Because of the groundwork already done by Garvey, Cantrell said Vector could begin orbital flights in 2018.
« Last Edit: 04/26/2016 07:39 PM by Tuts36 »


Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #9 on: 04/26/2016 07:44 PM »
Garvey's experiments with lox biprops go back at least 15 years. He used to have a partnership at CSULB called CALVEIN

https://web.csulb.edu/colleges/coe/mae/views/projects/rocket/background/


Glad to see he found partners and funding to build upon this.
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Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #10 on: 04/26/2016 08:02 PM »
 I'm not sure exactly how this related to Garvey Space, but it's clearly not just that Garvey himself is involved. Their launcher design is effectively identical to Garvey Space's, they seem to be using the same engine Garvey had developed, and they even use images of Garvey Space vehicles as their page backgrounds.

Offline The Amazing Catstronaut

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #11 on: 04/26/2016 08:07 PM »
Their website is absolutely riddled with typos and a horrible lack of grammar. Some of their chosen slogans are askew even.

It would do you a massive (and free) service to improve the website's overall comprehensibility, Vector. Perhaps take a few tips from firefly or rocketlab since you have comparative graphs featured on your website.

Other than that, keep going! Your propulsion solution is intriguing.
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #12 on: 04/26/2016 08:16 PM »
This is interesting.  Can Garvey be said to be a cofounder of SpaceX?  This is the first that I have seen the reference.

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #13 on: 04/26/2016 08:28 PM »
I'm not sure exactly how this related to Garvey Space, but it's clearly not just that Garvey himself is involved. Their launcher design is effectively identical to Garvey Space's, they seem to be using the same engine Garvey had developed, and they even use images of Garvey Space vehicles as their page backgrounds.

http://spaceref.biz/company/spacex-founding-team-launches-vector-space-systems-to-redefine-space-commerce.html

Quote
Founders:
Jim Cantrell, CEO - Jim is a well-known space entrepreneur, expert in small spacecraft systems and was on the founding team of SpaceX with Elon Musk, serving as SpaceX's first VP of Business Development. Jim has 30 years experience in commercial space efforts including StratSpace, Skybox Imaging, and the privately developed Lightsail. Early in his career, Jim worked for the French Space Agency CNES in Toulouse, NASA/JPL and has helped grow more than 20 space start-ups to profitability and acquisition through StratSpace where he was the Founder and CEO. Jim has been involved in the corporate development or financing of Silicon Valley's most notable space startups including Skybox, Planet Lab, Rocket Lab, World View, PlanetIQ and Orbital Insight.

John Garvey, CTO - John is a 30 year space veteran who was also deeply involved with the founding team of SpaceX. John developed launch vehicles and launch operations for the McDonnell Douglas Delta III and Delta IV, the DCX-A single stage to orbit vehicle, Sea Launch and Micro launch vehicles for Garvey Spacecraft Corporation. John has extensive experience in the development of propulsion systems and launch vehicles and has worked with AFRL, DARPA, NASA and numerous commercial space enterprises such as COSMOS-1 the world's first solar sail.

Ken Sunshine, CFO - Ken is senior executive with extensive expertise in strategic planning, financial analysis, raising capital, operations and project management for technology companies, and has served as the CFO of Virgin Galactic and Moon Express as well as SVP Finance of Orbital Sciences. Ken has extensive capital markets experience including IPOs, private placements, asset-backed debt, M&A and joint ventures.

Eric Besnard, VP Engineering - Dr. Eric Besnard is a well-known expert in aerospace system design, rocket and spacecraft propulsion, and launch vehicles. He has been involved in liquid propulsion research and launch vehicle technology development funded by NASA, the Air Force, MDA and others. These include the development of innovative launch vehicles and upwards of 30 flight tests, such as the first known aerospike and LOX/methane rocket engine flight tests. He also has extensive expertise in CubeSat, Nanosat and Microsat propulsion technology development. Dr. Besnard is Associate Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) and served as Chair of its Liquid Propulsion Technical Committee (LPTC). He has authored numerous scientific papers on launch vehicle and spacecraft propulsion technologies

Their proposed propulsion is an obvious evolution from what Garvey planned for the nanosat launch vehicle, and the launch site also happening to be Kodiak.

Also worth noting that Besnard and Garvey have collaborated for a while:

http://www.rocket-propulsion.info/resources/articles/AIAA_02-4038-Plug.pdf

Quote
DESIGN, MANUFACTURING AND TEST
OF A PLUG NOZZLE ROCKET ENGINE
Eric Besnard, Hsun Hu Chen , Tom Mueller

Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Department
California State University, Long Beach
John Garvey - Garvey Spacecraft Corporation
Huntington Beach, CA

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~sharring/nlv.pdf

EDIT: also, Jim Cantrell:
http://spacenews.com/author/jim-cantrell/
https://www.quora.com/profile/Jim-Cantrell

This answer in particular:
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Elon-Musk-ask-Jim-Cantrell-and-Adeo-Ressi-in-particular-to-travel-to-Russia-with-him-in-2001
Quote
There's more to the story than simply wandering around Russia.  Elon came to me in 2001 wanting to "do something that could demonstrate that humanity can become a multi planetary species".  He still uses that phrase.  He wanted to do it with his own money and had the idea of launching a colony of mice to Mars.  He contacted me specifically because I was a well known Soviet expert, have experience launching satellites from Russia, I speak Russian, I know the Russian industry from my work on the French/Soviet Mars 94 program, and I spent a sum total of two years there in the 1990's working DoD programs.  He knew that he could only afford a Russian rocket with his budget and this is where he started.  Some shades of the motivations to start SpaceX to come later.  For Elon, I was the best starting point because of my experience and knowledge of the Russian aerospace industry and Mars landers.  I gathered a group of people in the US to study this mission and we eventually came up with the idea to land a plant growth chamber on Mars to show that life could thrive on Mars. I led the study supported by John Garvey, Chris Thompson, Bob Zubrin, Jim French, Mike Griffin, Tomas Svitek, Tom Mueller, Taber MacCallum, Jane Poynter and Dave Bearden. It was called Mars Oasis. We identified the Dnepr launch vehicle as the best choice for the mission to be launched in 2006 if I remember correctly.  We went to Russia three times: once to talk to Lavotchkin about building our lander (thought to be cheaper than doing it in the US), another time to talk to a number of launch vehicle providers and the last time to actually purchase two Dnepr launches.  When they refused to negotiate, Elon decided to build the rocket himself - the modern Falcon 9.

Adeo had no particular experience with aerospace or engineering but was a trusted friend and advisor to Elon.  As for me, I have several degrees in mechanical engineering and about 25 years of experience in rocket design, propulsion, satellite design and planetary landers.

I sometimes wonder about how many people at the time thought of this as anything more than one more interesting project to come along that would otherwise dwindle and die.  For my part, I never imagined that it would lead to where things are today.  The Russians really sealed their own fate in the future launch market by creating the motivation for another competitor.  The rest of us knew that Elon was a serious guy but we all underestimated his resolve to stick to his vision and actually make it happen.  Adeo thought Elon was crazy for spending his money on such 'obviously foolish things' and I doubt he foresaw this outcome either.  Life is interesting and this is an excellent example of the idea that life is a journey rather than a destination !

Pretty small world
« Last Edit: 04/26/2016 08:53 PM by savuporo »
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Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #14 on: 04/26/2016 08:39 PM »
Their proposed propulsion is an obvious evolution from what Garvey planned for the nanosat launch vehicle, and the launch site also happening to be Kodiak.
Compare the Vector concept to this later Garvey Nanosat design from Garvey's website; that doesn't look an evolution to me, just the same vehicle.

Online catdlr

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #15 on: 04/27/2016 12:58 AM »
Here is Garvey Space YouTube Channel for some of their previous test launches.

https://www.youtube.com/user/GarveySpace
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Online Coastal Ron

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #16 on: 04/27/2016 02:21 AM »
Two of SpaceX's founders are working on a new rocket to launch micro-satellites | The Verge

Quote
...Jim Cantrell, Vector's CEO and SpaceX's first vice president of business development...

...The design for the engines and prototype came from fellow SpaceX founder John Garvey...

This is actually a good measure of success, when former employees leave a maturing company to create a competitor, or a company in a similar space.

And since I support any company that is working to lower the cost to access space, and that appears to be their focus, then I wish them lots of luck and as much success as they can generate!
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #17 on: 04/27/2016 02:27 AM »
Two of SpaceX's founders are working on a new rocket to launch micro-satellites | The Verge

Quote
...Jim Cantrell, Vector's CEO and SpaceX's first vice president of business development...

...The design for the engines and prototype came from fellow SpaceX founder John Garvey...

This is actually a good measure of success, when former employees leave a maturing company to create a competitor, or a company in a similar space.

And since I support any company that is working to lower the cost to access space, and that appears to be their focus, then I wish them lots of luck and as much success as they can generate!
pretty sure this is being misreported. Garvey was never at SpaceX.

There are couple nice pages of the background of how Garvey Spacecraft came to be, with the lineage back to DC-X ( again )

http://garvspace.com/KimboBack.html

http://garvspace.com/History.html
http://garvspace.com/News_2003_2006.htm

Quote
The initial motivation for developing these vehicles arose in 1996 when an effort was made by some of the DC-XA flight team personnel to get McDonnell Douglas' DC-XA project management to sponsor a flight demonstration of such a composite LOX tank.  The intent was to build upon the DC-XA's pioneering flights with the first-ever LH2 composite tank and to prepare for future vehicles like the upcoming X-33. Management's advice was that "...if you think it is such a good idea, then go do it yourself ...
« Last Edit: 04/27/2016 02:51 AM by savuporo »
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Offline jongoff

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #18 on: 04/27/2016 04:09 AM »
pretty sure this is being misreported. Garvey was never at SpaceX.

Yeah, John's company did the feasibility study for SpaceX when he was trying to decide if he could make a go in the launcher business. AIUI, that feasibility study convinced Elon to throw his hat in the ring, and may have come up with the basic concept for Falcon I, IIRC. Elon liked it enough that he hired most of the people who had been working with Garvey on the study. AIUI, Tom Mueller, Gwynne Shotwell, Chris Thompson, and a few of the other early SpaceX employees were in this group that Garvey had been pulling together.

So no, not an early SpaceX employee, but he had a significant early role in Elon deciding to get into the launch business.

I'm going off of several year old memory on some of these details, but I think the above is basically accurate. I left out a few details I was less sure about.

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Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #19 on: 04/27/2016 04:27 AM »
Yeah, John's company did the feasibility study for SpaceX when he was trying to decide if he could make a go in the launcher business.

As per mr. Cantrell's comments quoted above and other sources, the story checks out

Quote
Musk's "Mars Oasis" project is a small robotic lander intended primarily as a mini-greenhouse, growing samples of food crops in an enclosed chamber filled with treated Martian regolith (soil), to test the feasibility of humans living off the land. Other experiments may include test units for the production of oxygen and rocket fuel from the Martian atmosphere, and radiation sensors. In a radical departure from the missions scheduled by NASA, each experiment would focus on developing data critical to human habitation, rather than on pure planetary science. While the project's centerpiece is essentially the project long advocated by NASA planetary scientist Chris McKay, Musk stated that he had only met McKay in passing and had not discussed the project with him.

Musk's immediate efforts are focused closely on the completion of a feasibility study by a Russian/American team including the Russian Babakin design bureau, currently the contractor for the Planetary Society's solar sail test mission, and John Garvey, formerly of McDonnell Douglas's DC-X program and founder of Garvey Spacecraft Corporation. The study, under way for four months, is driven as much by cost as by technical feasibility, as Musk would have the mission cost under $20 million. He claims to have lined up financial support from "other technology entrepreneurs disheartened by NASA's efforts over the past thirty years." He plans to announce the slate of project financiers within a few months of the end of the study.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #20 on: 05/19/2016 12:29 PM »
Vector Space Systems Completes Successful Test of Second Stage Engine in Advance of First Sub-Orbital Test Flight

Sub-orbital test flights to begin Summer 2016; orbital launches planned for 2018

TUSCON, Ariz., May 19, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector Space Systems, a Micro Satellite space platform enterprise comprised of new-space industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas and Sea Launch, today announced the successful test of its second stage engine, a major milestone in advance of the company's first sub-orbital test flight as Vector Space Systems this summer. The test, which took place in Mojave, California on May 14, featured the company's second stage high-performance engine for its launch vehicle. Employing 3D printed components, the engine produces 500 pounds of thrust with a high specific impulse for maximum fuel efficiency. This development test was one in a series of second-stage engine tests leading to flight qualification in 2017.

Officially announced in May 2016, Vector Space Systems builds upon 10 years of research and more than 30 sub-orbital launches, and was formed to connect space startups with affordable and reliable frequent launch-enabling platforms and vehicles at a cost point never before possible for accessing space. Featuring a roster of technology and aerospace veterans to provide industry insight, expertise and leadership, Vector Space Systems plans large-scale sub-orbital test flights by 2017, with orbital launches scheduled for 2018.

"Led by Vector CTO, John Garvey, the Vector propulsion team has made tremendous progress in a very rapid manner, building and successfully testing an engine using 3D printed components within two months of the company's founding," said Vector Space Systems co-founder and CEO Jim Cantrell. "The rapidity and success of this test sets the standard for the swift development of our launch vehicle and furthers our mission to revolutionize the way commerce accesses and utilizes space."

Vector Space Systems continues to aggressively conduct tests of their first and second-stage engines, the mobile launch platform, and is creating full-scale vehicle engineering models. In addition, smaller sub-orbital test launches are planned for Summer 2016 to continue demonstrating functionality and flight operations.

About Vector Space Systems

Vector Space Systems is a disruptive space innovator that connects space startups with affordable and reliable launch enabling platforms and vehicles at a cost point never before possible for accessing space. For more information, visit www.vectorspacesystems.com.

SOURCE Vector Space Systems

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #21 on: 05/19/2016 02:28 PM »
Mid air recovery of 1st stage by UAV. At approx 500kg maybe a bit heavy for current drones (250kg) but they are getting more powerful each day.
See http://vectorspacesystems.com/technology

These small LV are ideal for MAR as they don't need a large expensive helicopter.


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Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #22 on: 07/20/2016 04:44 PM »
Vector Space Systems has formally acquired Garvey Space;
Quote
TUSCON, Ariz., July 20, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector Space Systems, a micro satellite space launch company comprised of new-space industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas and Sea Launch, today announced it has finalized the acquisition of Garvey Spacecraft Corporation. As part of the acquisition, Garvey Spacecraft Corporation Founder and CEO John Garvey joins Vector Space Systems as Chief Technology Officer.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-completes-acquisition-of-garvey-spacecraft-corporation-to-enhance-micro-satellite-launch-capabilities-300301053.html

Offline Lar

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #23 on: 07/20/2016 06:55 PM »
is that just a late announcement? The PR from mid May badged Garvey as the Vector CTO...
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #24 on: 07/21/2016 05:56 PM »
I also like the low-key mention of the optional electric, (SEP?) third stage.

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #25 on: 07/25/2016 11:14 AM »
http://spacenews.com/vector-space-systems-plans-2018-first-flight-of-small-launch-vehicle/

Article has excerpts from an interview with Steve Cantrell, Vector CEO, which gives  quite a lot of new info and clarification. The important points are;
- Garvey had already been hired, but the complete acquisition of Garvey Space wasn't complete until the July 20th release, it's not a late announcement.
- They have a suborbital launch planned from Mojave on July 30th (presumably the P-19 vehicle Garvey Space had already completed) and another from Kodiak in September.
- Suborbital tests of the full-scale Vector-1 are to start in 2017, and orbital tests in 2018
- They have one customer and are in negotiations with another, both wanting to launch constellations; about 30 launches between the two
- In the future, they plan to increase launch rate but not vehicle size
- Kodiak is the planned site for orbital launches, negotiation is ongoing with Space Florida for a second pad at the cape

Online Gliderflyer

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #26 on: 07/25/2016 02:57 PM »
- They have a suborbital launch planned from Mojave on July 30th
I would assume that Mojave refers to the Friends of Amateur Rocketry site, but there isn't anything on their calendar for this weekend. Does anyone know where they are launching from?
I tried it at home

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #27 on: 07/25/2016 06:48 PM »
http://spacenews.com/vector-space-systems-plans-2018-first-flight-of-small-launch-vehicle/

Article has excerpts from an interview with Steve Cantrell, Vector CEO, which gives  quite a lot of new info and clarification. The important points are;
- Garvey had already been hired, but the complete acquisition of Garvey Space wasn't complete until the July 20th release, it's not a late announcement.
- They have a suborbital launch planned from Mojave on July 30th (presumably the P-19 vehicle Garvey Space had already completed) and another from Kodiak in September.
- Suborbital tests of the full-scale Vector-1 are to start in 2017, and orbital tests in 2018
- They have one customer and are in negotiations with another, both wanting to launch constellations; about 30 launches between the two
- In the future, they plan to increase launch rate but not vehicle size
- Kodiak is the planned site for orbital launches, negotiation is ongoing with Space Florida for a second pad at the cape
Orbital version is called Vector Wolverine
Source: http://vectorspacesystems.com/technology/
« Last Edit: 07/25/2016 07:16 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Davidthefat

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #28 on: 07/29/2016 04:50 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene. 


Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #29 on: 07/29/2016 05:27 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene.
Background on this photo is consistent with FAR's big Quonset hut, so looks like that is indeed the launch site.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #30 on: 07/30/2016 05:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene. 


Follow the below link to watch the below mentioned video.

Vector Space ‏@vectorspacesys  23h23 hours ago
Vector CTO John Garvey discussing the purpose of our test launch tomorrow #startup
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759098434355814401


Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #31 on: 07/31/2016 06:38 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene. 


Follow the below link to watch the below mentioned video.

Vector Space ‏@vectorspacesys  23h23 hours ago
Vector CTO John Garvey discussing the purpose of our test launch tomorrow #startup
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759098434355814401


Per their Facebook:
P20 leaving the launch rail. Another successful test!

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #32 on: 08/01/2016 05:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene. 


Follow the below link to watch the below mentioned video.

Vector Space ‏@vectorspacesys  23h23 hours ago
Vector CTO John Garvey discussing the purpose of our test launch tomorrow #startup
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759098434355814401


Per their Facebook:
P20 leaving the launch rail. Another successful test!
And from their Twitter:
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/760136846441537536
2 hours ago.
Quote
Photo from the July 30, 2016 launch of our P20 sub-scale test vehicle. Another successful launch!
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #33 on: 08/02/2016 07:39 AM »
Here's the photo that was posted. Anybody know how high the vehicle went?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #34 on: 08/02/2016 01:42 PM »
A video of the launch is now on YouTube:
There are also a few more from different angles on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/vectorlaunchinc. Looks like the rocket only went up a thousand feet or so.
I tried it at home

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #35 on: 08/02/2016 05:07 PM »
Quote
Vector Space Systems, a micro satellite space launch company comprised of new-space industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas and Sea Launch, today finalized an agreement with Finnish-based Iceye to conduct 21 launches for Iceye's commercial SAR (synthetic aperture radar) satellite constellation. The payload flights, Vector's first customer flights since it started operations in early 2016, will be conducted over a four-year span as part of a larger partnership with Iceye. 

The first test launch as part of this agreement was successfully completed July 30 in Mojave, which included hosting a prototype of Iceye's microsatellite's core computing and communications systems to test its electrical and mechanical resilience in a launch environment on Vector's P-20 sub-orbital launch vehicle.  Iceye and Vector continue to explore future elements of their partnership related to space flight hardware development and data resale agreements.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-announces-21-launch-agreement-with-iceye-300307430.html?tc=eml_cleartime

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #36 on: 08/06/2016 11:16 AM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene.
Background on this photo is consistent with FAR's big Quonset hut, so looks like that is indeed the launch site.

Just going by the size of that section, is this actually any bigger than sub-orb rockets launched by people like Copenhagen Suborbitals?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #37 on: 08/07/2016 05:30 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene.
Background on this photo is consistent with FAR's big Quonset hut, so looks like that is indeed the launch site.

Just going by the size of that section, is this actually any bigger than sub-orb rockets launched by people like Copenhagen Suborbitals?
Probably about the same as they launched before under "Garvey."
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #38 on: 08/07/2016 05:42 PM »
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/759065073289617408

First suborbital flight for Vector tomorrow testing 2nd stage engine on lox & propylene.
Background on this photo is consistent with FAR's big Quonset hut, so looks like that is indeed the launch site.

Just going by the size of that section, is this actually any bigger than sub-orb rockets launched by people like Copenhagen Suborbitals?
P-20 is a low altitude test rocket validating technologies and is not a stage that will fly on the Vector-1 (Vector Wolverine) rocket family.

Offline Prober

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #39 on: 08/09/2016 02:00 PM »
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Davidthefat

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #40 on: 09/02/2016 08:58 PM »

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #41 on: 09/03/2016 01:50 AM »
Attaching images for posterity.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #42 on: 09/08/2016 02:55 PM »
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-awarded-25m-in-nasa-and-darpa-contracts-300324578.html
Quote
Vector Space Systems Awarded $2.5M in NASA and DARPA Contracts

Contract will Enhance Company's Flight Test Program of the Vector-R Launch Vehicle

TUCSON, Ariz., Sept. 8, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector Space Systems, a micro satellite space launch company comprised of new-space industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas and Sea Launch, today announced that NASA has selected its Phase II proposal under the 2015 SBIR/STTR program to continue development of an advanced prototype of the upper stage for the Vector-R launch vehicle.  The contract, proposed through Vector's acquired Garvey Spacecraft Corporation subsidiary, complements an earlier SBIR award from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) that addresses the use of the Vector-R first stage as a second stage for the XS-1 Experimental Spaceplane.  In conjunction with the awarded contracts, totaling approximately $2.5M, Vector is investing in related infrastructure and range site preparations to enable high performance flight testing by the fourth quarter of 2017.

Under this NASA Phase II STTR project, the Vector team is finishing the design and will then transition into assembly, integration and checkout of a full-scale prototype of the Vector-R upper stage engine. Vector will then integrate this stage with a prototype first stage engine, gained from a contract with DARPA, to create a fully functional two-stage flight test vehicle.  The team members include academic partner University of Alaska Fairbanks and the Alaska Aerospace Corporation (AAC).  The AAC hosted precursor ground operation pathfinder tests at its launch facility on Kodiak Island during Phase I that validated the feasibility of this site for the upcoming high performance mission.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #43 on: 09/10/2016 04:47 PM »
Vector added a few new pictures to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/vectorlaunchinc/posts/292045997833009
I tried it at home

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #44 on: 09/12/2016 01:14 AM »
I love the 'this-way-up arrow' showing which way to point the thing..  ;D
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #45 on: 09/12/2016 01:14 PM »
Vector added a few new pictures to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/vectorlaunchinc/posts/292045997833009

This is just a full-size hollow aluminum model with some paintwork, is that correct? It has nothing inside that will make it fly?
« Last Edit: 09/12/2016 01:15 PM by ringsider »

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #46 on: 09/12/2016 08:47 PM »
Discovery channel video about their test in August

http://linkis.com/review.bellmedia.ca/GLLgv
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Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #47 on: 09/14/2016 06:03 AM »
Some info on the Vector launch vehicle family from VSS

(Edit: Document removed - preliminary version not yet to be published - i will repost it, when the final approved version is available)
« Last Edit: 09/14/2016 10:52 PM by Skyrocket »

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #48 on: 09/14/2016 02:13 PM »
The launch cadence stuff is probably the least of their worries. It's not like they'll have customers with a cool couple million dollars walking up with payloads every week for a foreseeable future anyway.
A bit more questionable is .. here we have a small team, with all the relevant experience, and maybe a good shot of getting financed well enough to actually make to orbit - and of course hence the noise as well, for raising awareness and through that finding the right talent and funds.
However, before anything substantial has yet happened we are looking at no less than five rocket configurations with a bit of electric propulsion technology pivot thrown in, just to make sure everything is in laser focus...
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Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #49 on: 09/14/2016 03:44 PM »
The launch cadence stuff is probably the least of their worries. It's not like they'll have customers with a cool couple million dollars walking up with payloads every week for a foreseeable future anyway.
A bit more questionable is .. here we have a small team, with all the relevant experience, and maybe a good shot of getting financed well enough to actually make to orbit - and of course hence the noise as well, for raising awareness and through that finding the right talent and funds.
However, before anything substantial has yet happened we are looking at no less than five rocket configurations with a bit of electric propulsion technology pivot thrown in, just to make sure everything is in laser focus...

You points made me smile. I have now placed the horse back in front of the cart.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2016 03:59 PM by ringsider »

Offline Davidthefat

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #50 on: 10/12/2016 10:40 PM »
They just posted a video and a bunch of pictures of their operations test on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/786325947335061504

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #51 on: 10/17/2016 03:44 PM »
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-announces-60m-agreement-with-york-space-systems-300345619.html

Vector Space Systems Announces $60M Agreement with York Space Systems
Quote
TUCSON, Ariz., Oct. 17, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector Space Systems, a micro satellite space launch company comprised of new-space industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas and Sea Launch, today finalized an agreement with York Space Systems, an aerospace company specializing in small and medium class spacecraft, to conduct six satellite launches from 2019 through 2022 with the option for 14 additional launches. The first launch through the agreement will also be the inaugural launch of the Vector-H vehicle, which is capable of launching 100 kg into orbit, and will provide an integrated spacecraft to customers through a standardized platform.
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Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #52 on: 10/18/2016 08:44 PM »
Vector have just published the Vector-R and -H user guides, attached.

Offline brickmack

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #53 on: 10/21/2016 10:42 PM »
Their decision to have 2 separate launch vehicles seems kinda questionable. The larger one isnt that much more expensive as it is, and they could probably bring the average price down considerably by eliminating the redundant production lines for the smaller ones upper stage, interstage, and fairing.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #54 on: 10/23/2016 07:36 AM »
Vector have just published the Vector-R and -H user guides, attached.

More like a marketing brochure than a PUG - 12 pages.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #55 on: 10/30/2016 06:26 PM »
Jim Cantrell, CEO of Vector Space systems will be on next weeks TMRO.tv episode. Submit your questions
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Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #56 on: 11/04/2016 03:25 PM »
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/11/04/vector-atlas/

Vector Space Systems Signs Partnership With ATLAS Space Operations
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Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #57 on: 11/05/2016 05:23 PM »
Going live here in a minute for interview with Jim Cantrell https://www.tmro.tv/live/

Notes :
- future business model in addition to microlaunchers
- apps on microsatellites business model, they take care of launching constellations, users can send apps as payloads ( ?? )
- a bunch of SAR satellites being one of the first big customers, about 21 launches booked .. didnt get the company name - eh its Iceye
- PlanetIQ weather satellites being another

- Jim dont like the term NewSpace ( thank you Jim ) , he prefers enterpreneurial space. Recognizes that space has been driven by commercial interests since forever on satellite markets

- 90ies wave of space business failed because their capital expenditures were insanely high. They are entering at far lower entry points, single digit millions

- Key for 'apps on satellites' is virtualization


« Last Edit: 11/05/2016 05:49 PM by savuporo »
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Offline benjaminhigginbotham

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #58 on: 11/06/2016 04:21 AM »
For those who missed it, we have posted the full interview up now:

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #59 on: 11/06/2016 08:48 PM »
Am I the only one who senses a degree of perfume in this PR cascade from Vector?

They say things like they have 100 launches contracted. And statements like "$45m in backlog and another $25m in backlog." (http://usgif.org/system/uploads/4608/original/Vector_Space_USGIF.pdf)

Let's look at this.

The Iceye contract is for 21 launches. But this is a young startup that raised $5.5m in VC and EU grant money 2015/6, and probably has around $4M of that money left today.

Helsinki, Finland, 12 November 2015 – Iceye announced today a $2.8 million Series A funding round led by True Ventures, with participation from Lifeline Ventures and Founder.org. In September, ICEYE also secured € 2.5 million in R&D funding from SME Instrument within EU Horizon 2020.

There is industry commentary which is hard to take seriously:

And because Iceye is buying in bulk, and in advance (deliveries will begin in 2018), it's getting the best rates Vector has to offer -- somewhere on the order of $20 million to $30 million for the entire project.

Vector R has a 50kg payload bay. $1.5M is the price for the entire bay. Iceye is developing a nanosat, so it won't be taking 50kg or paying $1.5M per launch, even if it had the money to do so.

And then the contract with York Space - a company that is barely a year old, which got seed funding in late 2015, and has 7 employees:

The seven-employee company, currently based in Denver, is establishing a satellite factory near Centennial

And that company signs an alleged $60m contract?

The launch contract with Vector covers six launches between 2019 and 2022 and can be extended to add 14 more missions, the companies said.

So actually 6 contracted, with an option for 14. The headline figure is just PR waffle.

Plus, Jim Cantrell is on the York Space Systems advisory board, and Iceye is buying 10 of YSS's platforms. Is it a circle?

And then there are the "fueling test" images, where they basically vent some LOX out of an empty aluminium tube (watch the video, there is only one "fuel" line running to the "rocket" http://vectorspacesystems.com/video/).

That tube, an "engineering model", was welded up in what looks like Jim's garage, with all his racing photos on the wall:



I get that they want to make some noise, but this looks like heavily scented PR, and that usually ends up hurting everybody.
« Last Edit: 11/06/2016 09:07 PM by ringsider »

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #60 on: 11/06/2016 09:07 PM »
Nah, they might exaggerate a bit to gain more visibility and traction, but there isn't anything fantasy-land like here, unlike millions of people on Mars in ten years pronouncements
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #61 on: 11/06/2016 09:07 PM »
Am I the only one who smells a rat in this PR cascade from Vector?

They say things like they have 100 launches contracted. And statements like "$45m in backlog and another $25m in backlog." (http://usgif.org/system/uploads/4608/original/Vector_Space_USGIF.pdf)

Let's look at this.

The Iceye contract is for 21 launches. But this is a young startup that raised $5.5m in VC and EU grant money 2015/6, and probably has $4.5M of that money left today.

Helsinki, Finland, 12 November 2015 – Iceye announced today a $2.8 million Series A funding round led by True Ventures, with participation from Lifeline Ventures and Founder.org. In September, ICEYE also secured € 2.5 million in R&D funding from SME Instrument within EU Horizon 2020.


There is industry commentary which is hard to take seriously:

And because Iceye is buying in bulk, and in advance (deliveries will begin in 2018), it's getting the best rates Vector has to offer -- somewhere on the order of $20 million to $30 million for the entire project.

Vector R has a 50kg payload bay. $1.5M is the price for the entire bay. Iceye is developing a nanosat, so it won't be taking 50kg or paying 1.5M per launch, even if it had the money to do so.

And then the contract with York Space - a company that is barely a year old, which got seed funding in late 2015, and has 7 employees:

The seven-employee company, currently based in Denver, is establishing a satellite factory near Centennial


And signs an alleged $60m contract?

The launch contract with Vector covers six launches between 2019 and 2022 and can be extended to add 14 more missions, the companies said.

So actually 6 contracted, with an option for 14. The headline figure is just PR noise. Plus, Jim Cantrell is on the York Space Systems advisory board, and Iceye is buying 10 of their platforms. Is it a circle?

And then there are the "fueling test" images, where they basically vent some LOX out of an empty aluminium tube (watch the video, there is only one "fuel" line running to the "rocket" http://vectorspacesystems.com/video/) that was welded up in what looks like Jim's garage (https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13925890_277190145985261_6666894334636149440_o.jpg).

I get that they want to make some noise, but this looks like heavily scented PR that ends up hurting everybody.
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems where YSS supplies the SC bus and ICEYE supplies the SC payload (http://www.yorkspacesystems.com/?page_id=30). These are well into production.
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/iceye.htm


Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #62 on: 11/06/2016 10:14 PM »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems

Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #63 on: 11/16/2016 08:42 PM »

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #64 on: 11/16/2016 09:15 PM »
Vector testing aerospike engine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/798991167345917952
No they aren't, that's a blog post about Garvey Space's aerospike testing in the early 2000's.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #65 on: 11/18/2016 04:05 PM »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #66 on: 11/18/2016 06:04 PM »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems

Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...
look at the VSS info in the latest Vector-R Users Guide v1.5 for the Vector-RE1. Also these Microsats are a Custom non standard S-Class Platform being built by YSS.

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #67 on: 11/21/2016 08:55 PM »
Vector testing aerospike engine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/798991167345917952
No they aren't, that's a blog post about Garvey Space's aerospike testing in the early 2000's.

Uhm actually it IS Vector and it states that the testing took place through Garvey who as I understand it is PART of Vector. And yes the blog post makes it very clear it's Vector's co-founder and references his work at Garvey.
http://vectorspacesystems.com/blog/

Randy
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Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #68 on: 11/21/2016 09:05 PM »
These tests all took place long before Vector was formed, and the blog ends with the author concluding that multi-chamber aerospikes of this sort aren't currently viable.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #69 on: 12/08/2016 08:18 AM »
Nah, they might exaggerate a bit to gain more visibility and traction, but there isn't anything fantasy-land like here, unlike millions of people on Mars in ten years pronouncements

Nobody has said millions of people on Mars in ten years.  Nobody.

You lose all credibility your point might have had by ridiculous exaggerations like this.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #70 on: 12/08/2016 08:23 AM »
Quote
Vector Space Systems Receives Additional $1.25M in Seed Funding Led by Space Angels Network

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-receives-additional-125m-in-seed-funding-led-by-space-angels-network-300365718.html?tc=eml_cleartime

Seed funding and "angels" means that they haven't convinced a VC firm to give them their first real round of funding yet (that would be "series A", which comes after seed funding).  They're a long way off from flying anything.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #71 on: 12/11/2016 06:37 PM »

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #72 on: 12/12/2016 07:27 PM »
They seem to be making progress, but most of it is stuff that Garvey had in train before the re-branding I think.

Here's the list of SBIR grants, all for Garvey, not Vector:-

http://sbir.nasa.gov/content/garvey-spacecraft-corporation

http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/12/sbirselect/phase1/SBIR-12-1-S-E1.02-9091.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/14/sttr/phase1/STTR-14-1-T1.02-9931.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/11/sbir/phase1/SBIR-11-1-O2.01-8344.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/11/sbir/phase2/SBIR-11-2-O2.01-8344.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/07/sbir/phase1/SBIR-07-1-S4.01-8929.html

The first of these reveals Garvey's plans before Vector took over:

TECHNICAL ABSTRACT (Limit 2000 characters, approximately 200 words)

The technical innovation proposed here is the continued functional evolution and concept refinement of an incremental series of test vehicles that will ultimately provide dedicated, low-cost, reliable, on-demand routine space access for the emerging nano and micro satellite markets. Initial orbital operational capability for delivering 10 kg to a 250 km circular LEO is achieved with a two-stage, pressure-fed "10/250" Nanosat Launch Vehicle (NLV) that will pathfind performance, production, regulatory and operational challenges. This NLV will then be followed by a clustered "20/450" Nano/Micro Satellite Launch Vehicle (NMSLV) that addresses this topic's primary objective of providing a capability to place nano and micro satellites weighing up to 20 kg into 450 km circular LEO.
Aggressive leveraging of our team's existing NLV development initiative enables significant hardware development and the start of static fire testing during Phase I, followed by actual flight testing in Phase II for TRL-7 technology evaluations. These tests have incrementally introduced state of the art capabilities like advanced propellants (LOX/propylene) and structures (composite cryogenic tanks). The Phase I effort focuses on the development of the next class of test vehicle – a high altitude suborbital single booster stage (the "P-K") that features closed-loop thrust vector control (TVC) and candidate avionics technologies for guidance and navigation, as well as eventual autonomous flight termination systems (AFTS) for range safety, TRDRSS-based telemetry and tracking functions. In addition, it will incorporate features needed to implement the clustered first stage configuration and second stage separation method associated with the 20/450 NMSLV. The Phase II effort will then focus on the further development of an NMSLV-type first stage with two additional core boosters, for a total of three, and the conducting of a high-altitude demonstration flight.

POTENTIAL NASA COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS (Limit 1500 characters, approximately 150 words)
Currently, 10/250 NLV-class test vehicles are already providing suborbital reusable launch services for NASA. The next generation of such pathfinder test vehicles developed under this program will extend the test envelope for enabling launch technologies and operations needed to effectively implement orbital NMSLV-based operations.
Longer term, the NMSLV configuration that emerges from this effort will be able to support such NASA programs like LSP's ELaNA and the Edison small satellite research initiative. These can then be followed by launch and maintenance of global monitoring systems that feature low-cost CubeSat-class spacecraft.

POTENTIAL NON-NASA COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS (Limit 1500 characters, approximately 150 words)
Current NLV-class test vehicles are now being used to manifest and evaluate a variety of new launch vehicle technologies, including composite cryo propellant tanks, alternative hydrocarbon fuels (methane, propane and propylene), wireless data networking, and advanced vortex engines under TRL-6 and 7 environments. The next generation of NMSLV-based test vehicles will expand these to TRL 8 and 9 conditions, while still providing secondary payload opportunities for small developers and STEM initiatives.
Longer term, the resulting operational NMSLV can support the implementation of CubeSat-based commercial earth monitoring constellations, global space weather monitoring constellations for the Air Force, and rapid response for such organizations as the Army's SMDC and DOD Special Operations Command, as well as providing dedicated launch services for the DOD Space Test Program, Operationally Responsive Launch Office and the NRO's Colony II initiative.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 06:54 AM by ringsider »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #73 on: 12/17/2016 12:40 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #74 on: 12/17/2016 06:14 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 06:15 AM by ringsider »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #75 on: 12/17/2016 07:11 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.

Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 07:12 AM by Katana »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #76 on: 12/17/2016 07:38 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.

Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?

Spacex had a guy with $100m behind it who could make those kind of financial commitments. Vector is raising small money for space and doesn't have a sugar daddy.

I don't mind truthful PR but this company is just vomiting crappy numbers and has been for months. It hurts everybody in the sector a) because more honest PR looks less impressive and b) because when it all comes crashing down the fire spreads to the innocent.

VSS is making all the classic startup mistakes of being too loud, too fast.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 07:48 AM by ringsider »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #77 on: 12/17/2016 05:19 PM »
Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?
No, their current team is pretty small. Plans to hire about 200 over next couple years - which sounds about the bare minimum to actually start building and operate an orbital rocket that works.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #78 on: 12/17/2016 06:52 PM »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems
Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...
look at the VSS info in the latest Vector-R Users Guide v1.5 for the Vector-RE1. Also these Microsats are a Custom non standard S-Class Platform being built by YSS.

VSS 2016-11 V1.5:-

Payload

• 30 kg (75 lbm) to 450 km (243) nmi Sun Synchronous Orbit (SSO)
• 50 kg / 110 lbm to 200 km / 108 nmi circular 28.5 degree inclination Low Earth Orbit (LEO)

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #79 on: 02/17/2017 05:10 PM »
"Kanematsu Corporation (KG) is pleased to announce the intention to establish a business
collaboration through strategic investment with Vector Space Systems (Vector) for micro
launch vehicles and related services."

Not yet on Vector's Website as far as I can see. Not yet closed either.

Kanematsu Corporation expands business to small launch vehicle area - Enters into agreement to work with Vector
Quote
February 3rd 2017

Kanematsu Corporation (KG) is pleased to announce the intention to establish a business collaboration through strategic investment with Vector Space Systems (Vector) for micro launch vehicles and related services.

Vector will offer small launch vehicles dedicated to micro satellites and related services. Vector's CEO Jim Cantrell was involved in the start-up of SpaceX, an influential company which provides heavy lift launch vehicles. Incidentally, Vector's CTO John Garvey had developed nanosat launch vehicles at Garvey Space Corp. (GSC) for 15 years prior to joining the team.

Vector took over GSC's IP, assets and team in 2016, and is in the development of providing operational launch services by 2018. Vector has already been awarded contracts in several countries, including a contract with the United States' NASA program.

In the current space industry, although there is growing demand in the micro satellite launch market, customers can only launch micro satellites using heavy launch vehicles, mounting their satellites into space through medium and large class satellites launches. This is problematic because customers cannot select the desired launch timing, and are limited in orbit to send the satellites. After 2018, Vector will enable Japanese customers to launch their low-cost microsatellites into a desired orbit and at their preferred timing. In addition to this launch capability, Vector will provide satellite simulation services using virtual machine technology through the GalacticSky program.

KG has extensive experience in space business through sales transactions with European and American satellite manufacturers/satellite on-board equipment suppliers, satellite control system providers and rocket downrange system providers. KG will leverage synergy in addition to its domestic and international network with Vector, to make a strong showing in future business collaborations and further expand space businesses.

About Vector
Establishment : March in 2016
CEO : Jim Cantrell
Location : 824 E, 16th Street, Tucson AZ 85719
Business lineup: Development of launch vehicle and satellite simulation, launch service and its related services

Contact:
Public & Investor Relations Section, Kanematsu Corporation
Tel: +81-3-5440-8000
« Last Edit: 02/17/2017 05:43 PM by gongora »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #80 on: 02/21/2017 12:32 PM »
"Strategic investment with Vector Space Systems"

Does this read as KG is giving Vector money?

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #81 on: 02/21/2017 12:55 PM »
"Strategic investment with Vector Space Systems"

Does this read as KG is giving Vector money?
Yes that's the implication. When, how much and over what period of time are other questions.

IIRC KG is quite big so provided they don't micro manage the operation this looks like it could get to launch.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #82 on: 03/09/2017 04:11 AM »
Some new images on the @vectorspacesys Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/839298614362955776?s=09
 
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/838943456340787200?s=09

It looks more like and extension of existing Garvey work than something new. Not sure I believe they will be orbital by 2018.
« Last Edit: 03/09/2017 04:14 AM by ringsider »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #83 on: 03/09/2017 04:37 AM »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees




Some new images on the @vectorspacesys Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/839298614362955776?s=09
 
https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/838943456340787200?s=09

It looks more like and extension of existing Garvey work than something new. Not sure I believe they will be orbital by 2018.

Not entirely consistent with the 200 employees news.

Yeah, everyone is a critic these days.   8)
« Last Edit: 03/09/2017 04:38 AM by Danderman »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #84 on: 03/09/2017 05:33 AM »
Attaching images.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #85 on: 03/09/2017 04:59 PM »
Not entirely consistent with the 200 employees news.

Their LinkedIn is not consistent with the 200 employees aspiration either, quite yet. The team is 50% founders, 50% interns right now and shows about 13 people excluding investors/advisors.  If they got the funds, probably need a better recruiter to hit the growth curve target.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #86 on: 03/10/2017 12:44 AM »
They have some new Twitter updates:
Quote
Vector-R block0 P19h prototype getting ready for launch. Stay tuned for more photos and details about its first launch!
Source: https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/839939371075641344
Quote
Vector-R P19h ready to be skinned and nearly ready for launch, next to her older and wiser sibling the Vector-R MEU.
Source: https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/840013429196840960

Interesting that they are now including "P19h" in the name, similar to the the old Garvey naming scheme. I guess that makes sense, as there are what appear to be two Prospector sized tanks near the nose with about 30 feet of plumbing leading to the fixed engine in the back. It looks like they are putting the same size tanks and engine from their previous vehicles into the OML of their orbital vehicle for the initial test flight.
« Last Edit: 03/10/2017 12:46 AM by Gliderflyer »
I tried it at home

Offline Katana

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #87 on: 03/12/2017 02:19 AM »
They have some new Twitter updates:
Quote
Vector-R block0 P19h prototype getting ready for launch. Stay tuned for more photos and details about its first launch!
Source: https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/839939371075641344
Quote
Vector-R P19h ready to be skinned and nearly ready for launch, next to her older and wiser sibling the Vector-R MEU.
Source: https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/840013429196840960

Interesting that they are now including "P19h" in the name, similar to the the old Garvey naming scheme. I guess that makes sense, as there are what appear to be two Prospector sized tanks near the nose with about 30 feet of plumbing leading to the fixed engine in the back. It looks like they are putting the same size tanks and engine from their previous vehicles into the OML of their orbital vehicle for the initial test flight.
So many ribs? Ribs are generally heavy and seldom used on launchers, often used on aircrafts or amateur liquid rockets, Coppenhagen suborbital etc.

No TVC gimbal between engine and structure?
« Last Edit: 03/12/2017 02:25 AM by Katana »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #88 on: 03/12/2017 10:13 AM »
Garvey (and by association Vector) has always seemed extremely unprofessional. Nothing against him honestly, just saying I feel he has been around and doing the same things since forever, barely improving or wanting to do anything other than put a show for the cameras.

Vector also seemed to be more focused on getting 4k helicopter footage of the engine running for 5 seconds than actually improving it over its ancient pressure fed ablative cooled designed. I chuckled when I saw those last pictures come in. Really guys, 2 mini tanks and a huge shell to make it look bigger?

Let's just hope in the future they dont give newspace any more of a bubble rep than it already has.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2017 11:19 AM by Mardlamock »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #89 on: 03/12/2017 03:08 PM »
Once I was approached back in the 1980's to negotiate a deal, where the boards/discs/other of a luggable computer were simply put into a file cabinet sized rack, almost all empty.

The rationale for this was that the computer's software/performance/reliability/development was highly valued, but the customer base was used to buying big, clunky things, and they needed to have it big and clunky.

Garvey is simply delivering on what he was asked to do - make a prototype of the envisioned vehicle that will fire rapidly and reliably. Likely for investor confidence, so that then one gets the follow-on tranche of finance, so that you can modernize the tanks, skin, and engine, in that order, to have a useful next step.

So I would not run him down for what you see. Makes sense to me. But then, I deal with finance guys, big and small. And there are worse to deal with - policy makers.

It is those financing Vector who likely are the "unprofessional rocket scientists". Quite common.

If Vector gets the follow-on and doesn't execute as above, he won't get a second chance. And its substantial funds to get all that's needed to bring off those development/test/certify miracles.

So - why with Prospector didn't all these things get done? Perhaps because there was no budget for them? Duh.

Good luck to Garvey and Vector, hope they pull it off.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #90 on: 03/12/2017 04:03 PM »
Vector also seemed to be more focused on getting 4k helicopter footage of the engine running for 5 seconds ..
Drones are a thing now. The drone that took this video didn't cost substantially more than a decent enthusiast-level DSLR camera.
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Vector Space Systems
« Reply #91 on: 03/14/2017 04:40 PM »
The pictures seem to indicate to me that they are building a mockup, not a real rocket. But I could certainly be mistaken, but it seems like a strange way to assemble a tank.
« Last Edit: 03/14/2017 07:18 PM by Lars-J »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #92 on: 03/14/2017 07:27 PM »
You can see the tanks in the pictures above; they're the small objects near the front of the rocket. It's essentially a mockup that flies.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #93 on: 03/14/2017 07:30 PM »
You can see the tanks in the pictures above; they're the small objects near the front of the rocket. It's essentially a mockup that flies.

Thanks, that makes more sense!

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #94 on: 03/14/2017 07:32 PM »
A mock-up that flies is a pretty good thing to have for many reasons, no? Before committing to huge tooling expenses, getting data on how the aero shape performs through initial stages of flight sounds like not a bad plan. In addition putting engine, GSE, and electronics through it's paces, too.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #95 on: 03/14/2017 09:17 PM »
Vector also seemed to be more focused on getting 4k helicopter footage of the engine running for 5 seconds than actually improving it over its ancient pressure fed ablative cooled designed. I chuckled when I saw those last pictures come in. Really guys, 2 mini tanks and a huge shell to make it look bigger?

Let's just hope in the future they dont give newspace any more of a bubble rep than it already has.

PR has it's place, but Vector has taken it to another level. Once you look behind the PR to the companies and circumstances of those companies - take a look at the size / finances of York and Iceye and tell me how they write contracts totalling tens of millions - it becomes really damaging to the industry.

All this hype makes it more diffcult for companies with more conservative plans to raise money, and eventually creates a really negative backlash from investors who get oversold on wild promises. You can already read those stories in various parts of the press. Vector may be creating a situation that bites their own behind just when they need another large funding round. Just think ahead a year or two, when the stock market crashes and people get fired because the sector got over-hyped...

3-4 companies are / were really making lots of noise from very little - Vector, the Bloostar rockoon guys, Orbital Access (spaceplane in Scotland), and maybe also I would add Firefly (RIP), although that last one is probably slightly unfiair. Rocket Lab and Virgin are paragons of modesty in comparison. I am actually starting to respect Virgin a little more than I did to be honest, they are making good progress.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #96 on: 03/15/2017 09:03 PM »
Quote
Vector-R p19h and Vector-H prototypes nearing completion and getting ready for launch very soon... stay tuned for more news!

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/842125392257277952

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #97 on: 03/15/2017 09:08 PM »
SX and BO even get viewed as flashes in the pan to this day. By no less than the WSJ.

Garvey was an early advisor to SX, and has been doing rockets out of CSULB on AFRL grants for decades.

Firefly had the obvious flaw from its inception. Any due diligence could spot that one from a mile off.

So why invest? In space, its "bragging rights", which ties into PR. 95% of SX first months was leading to intense PR interactions, then followed later by intense investor interactions.

It is too easy to get "stupid money". It is much harder to get "smart money". Hunch here is that "smart money" would like to see a nano launcher without all the baggage (pad, GSE, facilities). Perhaps Garvey can demonstrate something that looks like that, and make a lot of PR noise. Perhaps that might head in a useful direction.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #98 on: 03/16/2017 12:07 AM »
It is too easy to get "stupid money". It is much harder to get "smart money". Hunch here is that "smart money" would like to see a nano launcher without all the baggage (pad, GSE, facilities)...
Not that i disagree with any of that, but i think the bar is actually a tad lower: a nanosat launcher that actually flies. Just getting to space, nevermind to orbit, would be enough of a milestone to secure reasonable funding, that would carry you from development to operations phase.
Actually flying also tightens the uncertainties around eventual operational costs way more than any financial modeling genius can.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #99 on: 03/21/2017 06:55 PM »
Quote
Vector Space Systems on Saturday to erect Vector-R at Space Florida's LC46, announce "intention to use the launch facilities in the future."

https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/844274247811940352

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #100 on: 03/21/2017 10:31 PM »
Some titbits from Space show interview 19Mar.
Fuel LOX/ Propylene. ISP high 200s. Autogenous pressurized, no He or exploding He tanks to worry about. Simple low cost pressure fed engine.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #101 on: 03/23/2017 08:53 AM »
Some titbits from Space show interview 19Mar.
Fuel LOX/ Propylene. ISP high 200s. Autogenous pressurized, no He or exploding He tanks to worry about. Simple low cost pressure fed engine.

Here's the link http://www.thespaceshow.com/show/19-mar-2017/broadcast-2885-jim-cantrell-vector-space-systems

First test flight planned for first week of April!

Edit: focus for 2017 is suborbital flights; orbital 2018
« Last Edit: 03/23/2017 08:55 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #102 on: 03/23/2017 09:58 AM »
Some titbits from Space show interview 19Mar.
Fuel LOX/ Propylene. ISP high 200s. Autogenous pressurized, no He or exploding He tanks to worry about. Simple low cost pressure fed engine.

Here's the link http://www.thespaceshow.com/show/19-mar-2017/broadcast-2885-jim-cantrell-vector-space-systems

First test flight planned for first week of April!

Edit: focus for 2017 is suborbital flights; orbital 2018

Step 1. Steal underpantsSuborbital flights
Step 2. ?
Step 3. ProfitOrbital flights

I don't see any problem with that plan.  It's not like there's some enormous gap between steps 1 and 3, is there?

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #103 on: 03/23/2017 10:04 AM »
A mock-up that flies is a pretty good thing to have for many reasons, no? Before committing to huge tooling expenses, getting data on how the aero shape performs through initial stages of flight sounds like not a bad plan. In addition putting engine, GSE, and electronics through it's paces, too.

In this day and age, is there really any doubt about the aero shape performance of something that looks like dozens of different missiles with extensive flight history?

This seems more like PR to me than anything that's actually engineering-driven.  And it's PR you don't see any of the other small launcher start-ups doing.

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #104 on: 03/23/2017 12:37 PM »
Some titbits from Space show interview 19Mar.
Fuel LOX/ Propylene. ISP high 200s. Autogenous pressurized, no He or exploding He tanks to worry about. Simple low cost pressure fed engine.

Here's the link http://www.thespaceshow.com/show/19-mar-2017/broadcast-2885-jim-cantrell-vector-space-systems

First test flight planned for first week of April!

Edit: focus for 2017 is suborbital flights; orbital 2018

Lots of blowharding, no way they are orbital by 2018.

I liked the irony of the bit where he said "there's some stealth projects out there, I know all about them" - this is the same guy who had his business plan plastered all over the WWW....

Offline su27k

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #105 on: 03/24/2017 01:49 PM »
I liked the irony of the bit where he said "there's some stealth projects out there, I know all about them" - this is the same guy who had his business plan plastered all over the WWW....

I'm not sure I see the irony here, I thought the business plan was leaked by the government? Hardly his fault.

I do wonder who is the stealth mode small launcher company he mentioned...
« Last Edit: 03/24/2017 01:56 PM by su27k »

Offline Ragmar

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #106 on: 03/24/2017 02:09 PM »
Relativity Space?

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #107 on: 03/24/2017 04:41 PM »
MEDIA ADVISORY

Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex to Accept Delivery of
Vector-R Rocket

Monday, March 27

WHAT:                      Capture the arrival of the Vector-R launch vehicle to Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex on Monday, March 27. The rocket will be on display prior to its installation at the NASA Now exhibit.

NASA Now tells the evolving story of the future of space exploration, immersing guests in the science of current missions to the International Space Station (ISS) and upcoming missions to explore deep space. In 2018, Kennedy Space Center will once again launch astronauts into space. See test versions of the spacecraft created for the Commercial Crew Program and Space Launch System (SLS), the future transportation of NASA’s deep space exploration and journey to Mars.

The Vector-R launch vehicle will be the first ever commercial space rocket featured and the first representation of its creator, Vector, at Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex, when it goes on display this spring. Vector is a company that connects space startups and innovators with affordable and reliable space access. 

WHO:                         Spokespeople representing Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex and Vector and will be available for interviews, including Jim Cantrell, chief executive officer and co-founder of Vector

WHEN:                      Monday, March 27

11 a.m.            Media arrival begins

                        Photo opportunity with Vector begins (outside of IMAX west side)

11:45 a.m.       Raising of Vector rocket

1 p.m.              Photo opportunity concludes

WHERE:                   Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex

Outside of IMAX Theater adjacent to the Rocket Garden

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #108 on: 03/24/2017 10:35 PM »
I liked the irony of the bit where he said "there's some stealth projects out there, I know all about them" - this is the same guy who had his business plan plastered all over the WWW....

I'm not sure I see the irony here, I thought the business plan was leaked by the government? Hardly his fault.

I do wonder who is the stealth mode small launcher company he mentioned...
I guess my point was it's easy to say "I know everything but I can't tell you what I know", but the only verifiable fact is that everybody knows everything about what Vector are doing.

Stealth: maybe he knows nothing - he dropped his (negative) views on pretty much everybody with a direct name check so why not name them if he knows something? Or maybe they are direct competitors and he doesn't want them to have any publicity? Relativity Space is deliberately stealthy, are they building small rockets that challenge his view that he is the only guy who can build 100,000 rockets a day?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #109 on: 03/25/2017 12:14 PM »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #110 on: 03/25/2017 02:19 PM »
Quote
Vector CEO @jamesncantrell and co-founder & CTO John Garvey at LC-46 @SpaceFlorida stay tuned for news conference.

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/845641590504853504

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #111 on: 03/25/2017 02:23 PM »
Quote
"Who needs complex launch infrastructure? We bring our own!" Sincerely, The Vector-R

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/845644232887058432

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #112 on: 03/25/2017 04:28 PM »
"Who needs complex launch infrastructure? We bring our own!" Sincerely, The Vector-R

Interesting
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #113 on: 03/25/2017 05:18 PM »
Yeah, basically a repeat of SpaceX's showy tactics in early company history. Worked out for them, though.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #114 on: 03/25/2017 05:50 PM »
Yeah, basically a repeat of SpaceX's showy tactics in early company history. Worked out for them, though.

Very similar, on multiple counts. There was a dog and pony show of dragging Falcon 1 shell to DC and erect it somewhere at some point, also quite a bit of boasting about how the launch control room and team fit in a truck trailer.
The only thing Vector still needs to emulate is picking a remote tropical location for initial orbital attempts. Alaska wont bring the viewers.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #115 on: 03/25/2017 09:02 PM »
Report on today's announcement:

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2017/03/25/vector-may-build-launch-rockets-space-coast/99555252/

VSS' tweet:

Quote
Vector CEO @jamesncantrell announcing we will launch out of LC-46 starting in 2018 & exploring building mfg integration facilities in FL

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/845658710718468101

Online catdlr

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #116 on: 03/29/2017 02:16 AM »
Vector Space Systems Brings Vector-R Rocket To Kennedy Space Center

Matthew Travis

Published on Mar 28, 2017
Vector Space Systems Brings Vector-R Rocket To Kennedy Space Center. Includes video of Vector-R raising to vertical and questions & answer with Vector CEO Jim Cantrell.

Video Credit: Matthew Travis / Zero-G News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlY09YT7Pyo?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #117 on: 03/29/2017 02:18 AM »
Vector Space Vector-R Arrives at Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex, March 27-28, 2017
 
SpaceKSCBlog

Published on Mar 28, 2017
On March 27, 2017, a test article version of the Vector Space Vector-R rocket arrived at the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex. This video shows the arrival, and then next day its display in the IMAX theater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fxRDUHjvEM?t=001


Tony De La Rosa

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #118 on: 03/29/2017 06:39 AM »
Truly amazing the attention they draw on themselves for what is basically an empty aluminum tube...

Offline CameronD

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #119 on: 03/30/2017 01:06 AM »
Truly amazing the attention they draw on themselves for what is basically an empty aluminum tube...

Ah, but you must admit it's a very impressive (and nicely painted) empty aluminium tube..
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #120 on: 04/02/2017 08:06 PM »
Quote
Rocket Mechanics @vectorspacesys  getting Block 0.1 vehicle ready to ship out Monday. Stay tuned for flight #space

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/848624731221667840

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #121 on: 04/02/2017 09:47 PM »
First launch Thursday: http://linkis.com/com/I1Qya

Here's just part of above page, describing Block 0 and first launch.

Quote
Vector-R Block 0 First Launch
 
The Vector-R Block 0.1 ships out Monday to the FAR Test Site near Mojave California for launch on Thursday. This will be a major milestone and achievement in the company coming only one year after we first incorporated.  This achievement was possible with the combination of a highly experienced Vector Team and a large inventory of pre-existing propulsion and vehicle technology and experienced team acquired from the Garvey Spacecraft Corporation last year. 

This Block 0 vehicle is the first in a test series being carried out this year to incrementally test flight systems for the orbital Block 1 launchers (2018) and gather operational experience with full scale vehicles.  This vehicle has a Block 1 first stage engine and engine controls, the Block 1 flight computers and the full scale Block 1 airframe (made from aluminum instead of carbon fiber to conserve money).  The vehicle is flying under an FAA waiver which permits us to rapidly fly prototypes in airspace without the lengthy approvals of the full flight vehicles.  With this regulatory convenience, we will be able to fly a number of very significant flights that will eventually lead to a near orbital Block 0 flight early next year.

Stay tuned as we become the FIRST of the new crop of SmallSat launch vehicles to make a full scale demonstration launch !

Offline brickmack

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #122 on: 04/03/2017 01:09 AM »
Quote
the full scale Block 1 airframe (made from aluminum instead of carbon fiber to conserve money)

Sooo.... it has zero commonality with the block 1 airframe. Great choice of words there

Online Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #123 on: 04/03/2017 05:53 PM »
Scud (SS-1, R-11), which has been used as the basis of an orbital launch vehicle, did the same about fifty years ago. It was a mobile variant inspired by the German V-2.

Lots of pointless bad mouth on this thread. You can complain if they keep launching the same thing with no changes. In this case, the superficial vehicle and the launcher are "new".

Professionally you call it a "baseline". Then, you "gradatim ferociter" ... right?

Now, Musk took a empty shell Falcon 9 1.0 and set it up at LC-40 over six years ago.

Didn't care then for the same put downs, nor for the mocking the greeted every Falcon 1 launch as they got their vehicle to work for them, a hard slog.  Bezos got mocked over BE1 being a joke, and ridiculed over a test flight failure (Secretive Private Spaceship Builder Reports Rocket Failure).

Small firms likely won't make in on almost any program they'll try, as funding is always too dear. They always have too few tries to bring things off to begin with. Ask Musk.

And, like academia, many run down others because they compete for funding, because the stakes are so low ...

I see stuff in this thread that isn't "be excellent to others".
« Last Edit: 04/03/2017 05:54 PM by Space Ghost 1962 »

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #124 on: 04/03/2017 06:02 PM »
This launch will test engine and lot of critical systems. Prove these work and it will be lot easier to source funding for production version.



Offline QuantumG

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #125 on: 04/03/2017 10:49 PM »
The difference is that Musk's publicity stunt was to win customers. We've watched the hype machine fail to raise funding for years now. It's almost like the stupidest investors are already broke. I really do hope Vector fly something, as that's the only way to convince investors that you've actually got a shot.
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #126 on: 04/04/2017 12:41 AM »
With so many small-launch start-ups these days, there's a lot of competition for investor dollars, and a lot of other companies for investors to compare a company to when doing due diligence.  That's a good thing.  It makes the start-ups up their game and gives more choices to investors.  It should improve the odds that at least one or two of the latest crop of start-ups makes it.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #127 on: 04/04/2017 01:23 AM »
The difference is that Musk's publicity stunt was to win customers. We've watched the hype machine fail to raise funding for years now. It's almost like the stupidest investors are already broke. I really do hope Vector fly something, as that's the only way to convince investors that you've actually got a shot.

..and no-one should forget that Musk almost landed himself in the "stupidest investors" category with the first few launches of his very own Falcon 1.

Space is not only hard, but a high-stakes gamble also.  Let's hope they find someone they can partner with to get this venture off the ground.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #128 on: 04/04/2017 01:40 AM »
..and no-one should forget that Musk almost landed himself in the "stupidest investors" category with the first few launches of his very own Falcon 1.

I don't think that's true. For a start, Musk isn't an investor in SpaceX...

investor (n) a person or organization that puts money into financial schemes, property, etc. with the expectation of achieving a profit.

Elon specifically said his expectation was to fail, so even the broadest definition of "profit" wouldn't apply.

Space is not only hard, but a high-stakes gamble also.  Let's hope they find someone they can partner with to get this venture off the ground.

Investors are neither gamblers nor partners. They're investors.


When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Online Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #129 on: 04/04/2017 02:54 AM »
The difference is that Musk's publicity stunt was to win customers.

It won an investor.

Quote
We've watched the hype machine fail to raise funding for years now. It's almost like the stupidest investors are already broke.
To a stupid investor they are all the same. Poor/no due diligence. Like with Firefly. Obvious.

Quote
I really do hope Vector fly something, as that's the only way to convince investors that you've actually got a shot.
Me too. Most of the bad ones never make it to design/fabrication, let alone launch.

Microlaunch is a peculiar category. In theory, you can do it with little capitalization, considerable talent/sweat, and enormous luck. Again, in theory ...

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #130 on: 04/04/2017 04:19 AM »
I man, dang. If Rocketlabs can be worth a billion without launching, maybe Vector has a chance.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #131 on: 04/04/2017 04:52 AM »
I man, dang. If Rocketlabs can be worth a billion without launching, maybe Vector has a chance.

It's an evaluation based on the credentials of the existing investors. SpaceX was much the same in that regards.
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #132 on: 04/04/2017 05:05 AM »
I man, dang. If Rocketlabs can be worth a billion without launching, maybe Vector has a chance.

It's an evaluation based on the credentials of the existing investors. SpaceX was much the same in that regards.
Except SpaceX had launched and recovered Dragon before they were worth a billion.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #133 on: 04/04/2017 05:37 AM »
Except SpaceX had launched and recovered Dragon before they were worth a billion.

Sure, and they also weren't accepting new investors without a fight. I mean, it took Google to break that egg!
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #134 on: 04/04/2017 04:25 PM »
Lots of pointless bad mouth on this thread. You can complain if they keep launching the same thing with no changes. In this case, the superficial vehicle and the launcher are "new".

I disagree with your assessment.

The noises from this company invite ardent self-praise, but in fact deserve closer, critical inspection, because their misleading claims hurt everyone.

Just today Vector sent an email that purported to be independent analysis and placed themselves in the same category at Rocket Lab, without mentioning any other company. Here's a quote:-

The recent valuation of RocketLab in the Unicorn Billion Dollar range also speaks to investor interest and faith in the growing small satellite launch market dominated by RocketLab and Vector.

Wait: Vector is -dominating- the sector? Not a word about Virgin Orbit, who have contracts, engines, cash, a 747, an actual partnership with OneWeb? Vector is a -peer- of Rocket Lab, who have raised $150m and just today showed the actual vehicle on the pad?

It is offensive to read this horse****, and it needs to be called out. It is disrespectful to those making genuine progress - and there are several out there - to make claims that are largely based on thin, hot air. An honest company doesn't look so impressive when compared to these claims, and therefore doesn't get an investment; or they are forced to fight fire with fire and reach for the BS lever as well, which makes the entire sector look shady.

There are a range of examples over the past weeks and months. Vector has announced contracts for > $120 million, one of them for $60m placed by 5-man startup with minimal funding; they publish launch specifications like those above, which walk a fine line between fact and fiction; they publicize photos of empty tubes spewing LOX boiloff that are claimed to be "refuelling tests"; don't even get me started on the Pima County business plan fiasco.

Don't complain about a lack of cash if that is what you want to encourage as normal ethical behavior in the sector. Supporting it leads to the current moral rot infesting our government, because it enables the erosion of truth. And truth is something we should value more.
« Last Edit: 04/04/2017 05:07 PM by ringsider »

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #135 on: 04/04/2017 07:28 PM »
To dominate a launch market a company needs to be launching payloads. Which counts out VG, RL and Vector.

Offline Davidthefat

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #136 on: 04/04/2017 07:45 PM »
What's the target altitude for this flight? Can't be higher than 30,000ft with such a big OML and small tanks. Looks awfully heavy as well.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #137 on: 04/04/2017 07:46 PM »
Here's the Vector email Ringsider was talking about;
Quote
StratSpace info@stratspace.net

to me

The Brave New World Of Space Launch
2017 will be a pivotal year in the history of space launch.  The year started off with a bang when a SpaceX Falcon-9 launched the Netherlands’ SES 10, a 5,000kg communication satellite, into orbit using a recycled launch vehicle first stage. The Falcon-9 appears to be back on track after a disastrous 2016 while the Proton M is still in a long process of replacing defective first stage engines that could delay them years and further delay the the planned Russian Communication system deployment.  2017 will also be the year of the micro launchers - a new breed of launchers dedicated to the small and micro satellite markets with several first launches expected this year.

Launch vehicle flight rates and launch capacity (or lack of the right capacity in the case of recent years) is driving the overall space market by limiting the supply of reliable launches into orbit. There is great irony in today's launch market where some sectors have tremendous over-supply (Heavy Launch) while other sectors (small launch) are suffering from a severe shortage of capacity.  This all speaks to a changing launch vehicle market that will reshape the face of the launch and satellite industry for decades to come!

The current heavy launch providers face an over-capacity situation with the ULA Atlas/Delta, Ariane V, Proton and H2 facing the cheaper and more efficient Falcon Heavy set to debut this year.  Meanwhile, the capacity for launching small and micro satellites is in extremely short supply and is projected to remain so until new providers such as RocketLab and Vector come on line.  The launch supply situation is key for satellite operators as they consider options for launching new constellations and replenishing existing systems in orbit. The recent valuation of RocketLab in the Unicorn Billion Dollar range also speaks to investor interest and faith in the growing small satellite launch market dominated by RocketLab and Vector.

***Graph1 goes here***

The StratSpace forecast model predicts significant over-capacity in the Heavy Lift launch market and severe shortages of capacity in the small and micro launch markets where new entrants are vying to meet a growing market demand.  The nominal model contemplates suppliers such as RocketLab and Vector being successful in developing operational capability in the small and micro launch sectors respectively.  Despite this added launch capacity, the market will remain short of launch capacity for at least 5 years.

Does Reusability Really Reduce Launch Cost ?
Its long been understood In the space industry that achieving high launch rates is a key factor in reducing launch costs and increasing reliability. Yet, most launch rates for a single vehicle rarely exceed 10-12 launches per year in a good year !  The argument for reducing launch costs are well founded and based on known economics of learning curve cost reductions associated with manufacturing a complex machine combined with a more efficient use of fixed capital expenses.  Reductions in recurring labor costs and supply chain cost reductions contribute to an ever-decreasing cost basis as more vehicles are produced.  In addition to the cost reductions, if the vehicles are truly production oriented, increases in reliability would also be expected. 

The reality in the launch industry is quite different however since launch vehicles are still made in a bespoke manner with block upgrades every 10-15 units.  The venerable SpaceX Falcon-9 is actually not the same vehicle that flew early on and has undergone major design changes every 10 flights on the average. These changes are aimed at enhancing launch capacity to orbit which lifts revenue and profit per launch.  So what of the topic of reusability ?  Why is SpaceX and Blue Origin spending massive capital to achieve reusability and why are other launch companies eschewing this in favor of high launch rates ?

Reusability, like that demonstrated by SpaceX this week, is another cost reduction strategy.  Most studies and models agree that re-use begins to generate positive returns after about the 10th cycle of re-use for each unit however.  Taking capital expenditures into account and refurbishment costs, this means that a reusable rocket remains a sunk cost until about the 10th re-used flight on the average.  After that tenth flight, lowered costs can be used to pad the profit lines or reduce costs to satellite operators.  This makes sense with the Blue Origin business model of repeatedly flying tourists into space and returning to the launch pad and we would expect re-use of the launchers to extend into 20-50 launches per vehicle.  In the case of SpaceX, the economics are less obvious but are worth a closer examination.

The overall demand for a Falcon 9 class launch is simply not large enough to justify an investment return from re-usable first stage cores.  If the cores work across the F-9 and F-Heavy launchers, the case begins to come to a close but it is still not a stellar ROI. Is there another reason why SpaceX is pursuing reusable first stages ?  Perhaps the answer lies in production capacity.  It's well established in industry circles that SpaceX needs about 20 F-9 launches a year to be firmly cash flow positive yet the factory does not appear capable of reliably producing this many Falcon 9's and flying them. 

Perhaps the reusability is the answer to the capacity problem by offsetting the need for building new large complex stages in addition to being a technology important for Mars missions.  Based on our analysis of LV demand and likely re-use costs, we believe that re-use is SpaceX's way of increasing its flight tempo and to crowd out many of the other heavy lift launch vehicle producers who are more expensive and have an inherently limited launch rates.  What this means, we believe, is that ULA and Russian launch providers face some very tough choices as the over capacity in this market continues to grow and SpaceX succeeds in re-using its first stages.

***A button labelled ' Browse Stratspace forecasts is here, linking to this page***

MicroSats Are Shattering The Launch Industry
Micro and small satellites are set to shape the winners and losers in the launch industry for the next decade.  While the majority of micro and small satellites are being launched as ride-share aboard much larger launches with large primary satellites.  While this launch method has enabled the micro satellite revolution to begin, a dedicated launch service for this growing sector is emerging.  Small sats markets are beginning to be built in such numbers that a dedicated launch service is not only a viable business but can support upwards of 4 competitors in this sector alone.  RocketLab's Electron is focused not he small satellite sector (100-200 kg) with launches up to 50 per year and Vector is focused on the smaller micro satellites in the 25-100 kg range with launches exceeding 100 per year.  RocketLab will launch first in 2017 and Vector is scheduled to follow closely behind in early 2018.  It will be a race of execution between RocketLab and Vector to achieve high flight rates and start flying off the growing backlog of small and micro satellites.

This new Space Race is emerging as one of the most interesting changes in the launch industry to come along since the success demonstrated by SpaceX.  StratSpace models who the attraction of this market and lay clues to the changes about to happen before our very eyes.  In many ways, this is shaping up to be the equivalent of the emergence of the PC in the 1980's and 1990's.

***Graph2 goes here***

Micro And Small Satellites To Dominate Market by 2020

The StratSpace market forecast for spacecraft procurement shows a running trend that nano, micro and small satellites will dominate the market by 2020. By 2022, 70% of all spacecraft being built will be nano, micro or small satellites weighing under 250 kg.  This is a stunning shift in the market and is further accentuated by the projected drop in demand for traditionally strong GEO comsats over the next five years.  In five years time, small and micro satellites will become the industry norm and the trend most resembles that of the micro computer of the 1980's.

***Image of Rocketlab launch complex***

RocketLab uses a fixed launch infrastructure located in New Zealand and analysts expect launch rates of up to 50 per year from the company.

***Image of Vector launch trailer***

Vector uses a mobile launch approach where all that is needed to launch is a concrete pad on a commercial launch range.  To date, they have plans to launch from Cape Canaveral, Spaceport Camden and Kodiak Island Alaska at the Pacific Spaceport Complex Alaska.

Happy to help.
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Online Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #138 on: 04/04/2017 09:14 PM »
FWIW, this is fairly standard fair for investment these days. Not defending it but explaining it.

In fact, if you are not overt you never even get heard. And yes also consider that a horsesht approach, but FB's first materials when it was "the facebook" were two orders of magnitude worse FWIW.

Class A VC even get completely fooled by total frauds about 5% of the time  - does not matter. Because they never execute, so things fold fast. You don't sweat it.

As to other efforts, put them up here at the same exposure level and the contrast will become apparent.

As it is, suggest we need to see some launches from any/all of them. If they can do, they should do, we'll know, and the credible success will feed as a virtuous circle. Til then, give all the benefit of the doubt.

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #139 on: 04/04/2017 09:35 PM »
FWIW, this is fairly standard fair for investment these days. Not defending it but explaining it.

I am fairly certain I have more experience of professional venture finance than anyone on this forum, and this is not "standard fair".

Quote
In fact, if you are not overt you never even get heard.

This is untrue. There are dozens of examples, but here are two from this sector.

Relativity Space raised $10m in a matter of weeks, as a complete startup, from solid tech VCs, and almost nobody knows what they are doing. That is about 10x more VC money than Vector, and they are utterly silent. Actually I would say Vector has angel money, not VC money, which is usually naive money with weak DD.

Rocket Lab didn't even make what they were doing public until they had locked Khosla and K1W1 in private. Not a whisper until they showed off the engine.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #140 on: 04/04/2017 09:42 PM »
The standard fair for tech startups is to talk about their long term vision while being cagey about just how shoddy their existing development is... I'll certainly give you that. Completely false claims cross the line though.
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #141 on: 04/04/2017 10:20 PM »
FWIW, this is fairly standard fair for investment these days. Not defending it but explaining it.

I am fairly certain I have more experience of professional venture finance than anyone on this forum, and this is not "standard fair".

Since I know of three people from the 1980's Sand Hill Road vintage who are "on" here, I'd very much doubt that.

Myself,  first Series A done was 1982 following work done on Shuttle's ALT tests. And Vinod knows me - was in his office about two months back. Knew him from Daisy Systems.

Quote
Quote
In fact, if you are not overt you never even get heard.

This is untrue. There are dozens of examples, but here are two from this sector.

Relativity Space raised $10m in a matter of weeks, as a complete startup, from solid tech VCs, and almost nobody knows what they are doing. That is about 10x more VC money than Vector, and they are utterly silent. Actually I would say Vector has angel money, not VC money, which is usually naive money with weak DD.

Even the most accomplished VC's for the space sector, in DFJ and Founders Fund, have limited coverage and rely on part time staff to "quick look" deals. One of them is an ex-LM guy who'd rather reposition himself into healthcare so he can get a piece of a positive revenue growth deal so he can ascend in the organization before he gets washed out.

The story of the example is due to "button holing" contacts and getting temporary buy-in to put significant earnest money in upfront, under the assumed condition it isn't to be spent, as a means to get more on board for the right valuation, so that then the deal might go forward. These arrangements frequently blow up and sometimes get put back together.

VC's have many different processes to deal with DD and going forward. Some are like what caused people to by in to that idi.ot Palmer Lucky to the tune of several billion, with expected incomplete DD liabilities even larger.

Wouldn't be surprised if Vector has angel monies. It would work, given the Garvey Space collateral, which I *have* assessed from the past. Garvey did do some DD for Musk IIRC.

Quote
Rocket Lab didn't even make what they were doing public until they had locked Khosla and K1W1 in private. Not a whisper until they showed off the engine.
Indeed. But that's how Vinod works. Not all VC. And Vinod has a penchant for being "brutal" ... as Rocket Labs might find in six months time.

Now, apart from this dick measuring contest, perhaps there is an agenda here.

If so, its not uncommon for ppl to run down a rival ... so as to buy time for another. Which is why "be excellent to others" means "uniformly give others the benefit of the doubt".

This is not a investment or entrepreneurship forum, this is a space interest forum. So its not our place to judge any of these firms as investment, because there is no "voir dire" to empanel an effective, impartial "technical jury" .

Which is why won't take this further than this post. Because it can become unfair to all space start-up companies due to non-uniform treatment.

Which ostensibly a senior VC investment talent should already know ... without me having to say ... because it is implicit.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #142 on: 04/05/2017 12:21 AM »
This is not a investment or entrepreneurship forum, this is a space interest forum. So its not our place to judge any of these firms as investment, because there is no "voir dire" to empanel an effective, impartial "technical jury" .

Of course it's our place to judge these firms.  That's what a discussion forum is all about.

I'm free to offer my opinion.  You're free to offer yours.  Readers are free to decide which they believe or remain undecided.

What I do think is not right on this forum is to put down other people for offering their opinions, which, to me, it seems you are doing by telling them it's not our place to judge these firms.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #143 on: 04/05/2017 05:32 AM »
Quote
@vectorspacesys Vector-R Block 0.1 ready to launch.  Stay tuned ! #Space #SpaceX #CubeSat

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/849455672282554368

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #144 on: 04/05/2017 05:47 AM »
<SNIP>
Now, apart from this dick measuring contest, perhaps there is an agenda here.

I'm not measuring anything. I'm explaining my rationale. Yours just seems to be "It's not fair to make rational comments based on facts."

Quote
If so, its not uncommon for ppl to run down a rival ... so as to buy time for another. Which is why "be excellent to others" means "uniformly give others the benefit of the doubt".

I present facts, you present baseless, snide insinuations. The truth is I just think what Vector is doing stinks.

Maybe you have an agenda in asking people to soft soap the horse manure they are spreading across the farm?
 
Quote
This is not a investment or entrepreneurship forum, this is a space interest forum. So its not our place to judge any of these firms as investment, because there is no "voir dire" to empanel an effective, impartial "technical jury" .

I have judged them as to whether they are honest or not. It's really interesting you won't say they are wrong, in fact quite the opposite - almost like you have a vested interest...

Quote
Which is why won't take this further than this post. Because it can become unfair to all space start-up companies due to non-uniform treatment.

Vector is a problem in the making, and I think you are irresponsible to support their ethically questionable approach.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #145 on: 04/05/2017 05:57 AM »
Vector is a problem in the making..
There aren't many teams around that can get a rocket on the pad. Any rocket. So maybe just dial back the sniping a bit and see where they go.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #146 on: 04/05/2017 01:51 PM »
Vector have released a notice of intent (NOI) to solicit bids to build its new manufacturing facility in Tucson, Arizona: https://vectorspacesystems.com/notice-intent-noi/

Earliest estimated start date for chosen contractor is June 19, 2017.

Some example details from the NOI on the facility:

Quote
General Description:

Main purpose is the use for aerospace component, sub-systems and systems manufacturing, test and integration
Facility produces “small launch vehicles” (up to 60’ length)
Final integration is horizontal (no high bay areas required)
[...]

Building Assumptions:

[...]
Mfg floor space, sqft approx.: 56,000
Corporate offices, Eng, Sales, sqft approx.: 20,000
[...]

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #147 on: 04/05/2017 11:59 PM »
This tweet is just over an hour old:

Quote
Vector-R ready to go... t-minus 17hrs

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/849756879358054400

There's a brief video with the tweet of the rocket and launch site.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #148 on: 04/06/2017 02:59 PM »
17h just about over.. no signs on Twitter yet
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #149 on: 04/06/2017 04:13 PM »
"Vector-R first launch ready to go t-minus ~20mins 5 drones ready to capture the action"

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/850014385313464320

(that was 15min ago)

Doesn't look like there will be a live stream.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #150 on: 04/06/2017 04:28 PM »
Slight delay announced
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #151 on: 04/06/2017 05:12 PM »
About 13 mins ago:

Quote
@vectorspacesys team ready for launch this morning.  We are at T-50 minutes #space

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/850030086547849216

Online Lars-J

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #152 on: 04/06/2017 05:37 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit weird that @jamesncantrell tweets Vector updates and hashtags the tweets with #SpaceX? See https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/849781206149341184

Hopefully we'll see a launch today.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 05:38 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Davidthefat

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #153 on: 04/06/2017 05:44 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit weird that @jamesncantrell tweets Vector updates and hashtags the tweets with #SpaceX? See https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/849781206149341184

Hopefully we'll see a launch today.

Trying to get more coverage probably. And yes it is weird.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #154 on: 04/06/2017 05:58 PM »
Quote
Fueling is complete .... restarting countdown clock

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/850044401820749824

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #155 on: 04/06/2017 06:14 PM »
Quote
Launch abort ...main engine valve issue.  Recycling countdown thirty to 60 minutes

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/850048689817083904
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 06:15 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #156 on: 04/06/2017 06:29 PM »
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 06:30 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #157 on: 04/06/2017 06:58 PM »
Weather issues:

Quote
@vectorspacesys vehicle post pad abort.  Winds picked up just now to beyond range limits from incoming storm. Possible retry next week

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/850059447514808320

Edit to add:

Quote
Automated pad abort vehicle fine issue being investigated wind too high & storm coming will attempt again at the earliest next week

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/850063615054856192
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 07:16 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #158 on: 04/06/2017 08:46 PM »
Quote
She lives to fly another day. Will update once data is analyzed on the auto abort reason and date for next scheduled attempt.

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/850077996345991169

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #159 on: 04/06/2017 08:59 PM »
The tiny size of the engine nozzle compared to the diameter of the rocket body makes it look very strange.  Even if we didn't already know the body was mostly empty, this would give it away.


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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #160 on: 04/06/2017 09:09 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit weird that @jamesncantrell tweets Vector updates and hashtags the tweets with #SpaceX? See https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/849781206149341184
I noticed that as well. Yeah, weird. Here's my guess:

It would seem from what I'm hearing that they are attempting a bunch of "SX imitation", by telling a story to some who've already invested in SX from the early pre Falcon-1 days.

This has aroused significant envy with rivals. Some of which who want to close rounds at higher valuations w/o doing anything in the form of actual systems work. Even worse, one investment cannot seem to advance to launch, and has a frustrated investor and a high profile project.

So it looks like Vector is attempting to build and launch as quickly as possible. Then develop more, and launch again, always building on the prior launch.

This is aggravating the above mentioned situation, causing furious reactions about Vector. Beyond that its hard to tell with all the shouting/name calling.

Personally find it humorous.

Now that you know this, perhaps it may help in examining what we experience as feedback from their efforts.

Oh, and its interesting how microlaunch as a category is working out. Completely different than any of the past.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #161 on: 04/06/2017 09:15 PM »
I would guess they're using the #SpaceX hashtage because they want more people to see their tweets, and lots of people already are interested in SpaceX, so they can increase their audience by doing this.  This seems pretty slimy to me, because the tweets aren't really about SpaceX at all.  That would, to me, seem like an abuse of the hashtag to help themselves at the expensive of spamming people who are interested in SpaceX.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #162 on: 04/07/2017 10:11 AM »
Vector-R has three 25 000 lb engines on the first stage. This rocket only has one.
So this is a scaled down Vector-R. An most likely only the first stage.
I guess they are flight testing the aerodynamics of the Vector-R with this launch.

edit: That's why they call it Vector-R Block 0.1. Block 1 is most likely the full launch vehicle.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2017 10:20 AM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #163 on: 04/07/2017 10:51 AM »
I guess they are flight testing the aerodynamics of the Vector-R with this launch.

Some of us think it's really more about PR than about testing aerodynamics.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #164 on: 04/09/2017 03:08 AM »
I guess they are flight testing the aerodynamics of the Vector-R with this launch.

Some of us think it's really more about PR than about testing aerodynamics.
Or worse:  incapable of testing with full scale propulsion and simple "boiler plate" tanks.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #165 on: 04/20/2017 06:27 AM »
Vector close $4.5M funding bridging round:

http://www.bizjournals.com.ln.is/7k1id

Article says 'next' test flight is May.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #166 on: 04/20/2017 08:20 AM »
Vector close $4.5M funding bridging round:

http://www.bizjournals.com.ln.is/7k1id

Article says 'next' test flight is May.

Well, that's pretty good confirmation that the show they put on recently was never really about testing anything.

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #167 on: 04/20/2017 06:59 PM »
Money is one of the best propellants around. Godspeed.
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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #168 on: 04/22/2017 08:27 PM »
« Last Edit: 04/22/2017 08:28 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #169 on: 04/25/2017 06:37 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit weird that @jamesncantrell tweets Vector updates and hashtags the tweets with #SpaceX? See https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/849781206149341184

Hopefully we'll see a launch today.
Prescient tweet, predicting the fact that they were going to miss their launch date (a common complaint against #SpaceX)?   ;D 

Yeah.  That's weird.  Funny, but weird.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But, in practice, there is.  --Jan van de Snepscheut

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #170 on: 04/27/2017 05:39 AM »
Quote
T-minus 7 days..this is our first mission patch :) Plan is 100+ launches/yr & a patch each. Audience participation on future patch ideas?

https://twitter.com/vectorspacesys/status/857405592855379968

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #171 on: 04/27/2017 06:30 AM »
Well, for a patch idea, this is what I think of when I hear "Vector" and "rocket" in the same sentence:



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