Author Topic: NASA Administrator to Make X-Plane Announcement at Reagan National Media Event  (Read 23335 times)

Online kevin-rf

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Hoping for the Hybrid tail fan. Call me a fan ;)
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

Offline 93143

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I read a while back on the blended body design something I do not quite understand. During a turn passengers seated out towards the wing will experience higher g loads than those seated in the center. Not sure how that works, is the turn radius that small?

Wouldn't that refer specifically to the bank maneuver itself?  The rotation of the vehicle would be much more noticeable that far from the roll axis.

Probably refers to rolling in general.  An already-banked turn that still has rudder involvement will indeed put higher lateral (not vertical) g-loading on the outer edge, but it's likely to be a very small difference because the turn radius is high.

Well, yes, that's what I meant.  The seesaw effect.

Offline Borklund

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I am rooting for blended wing body. Call me delusional, but I want the future to look (retro)futuristic!

Offline muomega0

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Hoping for the Hybrid tail fan. Call me a fan ;)
I am rooting for blended wing body. Call me delusional, but I want the future to look (retro)futuristic!
My koolaidX is too dilluted to believe in supersonic electric jets in any near future.  :)
NASA spent low level $ (aero is less than 4% of NASA's budget) to understand the technology beyond the VG level over the last 6 years.  Actual data guided the system trades.  Some concepts are easier while other concepts provide more overall benefits, and others are very challenging indeed ( a supersonic electric jet  ;D).   With so few resources and the push to raise the TRL on easier concepts, a push to reduce funding on the lower level high risk higher payoff technology is easy to forecast.

Conceptual Design of a Single-Aisle Turboelectric Commercial Transport with Fuselage Boundary Layer Ingestion

Distributed Propulsion Systems to Maximize the Benefits of Boundary Layer Ingestion

Offline gin455res

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Hybrids are neat and all, but full-electric is where it's at. Ultra-high-performance lithium-ion and lithium-sulfur can do 300-400Wh/kg, which should do 1000km with some of those advanced designs, if you're clever. With lithium-air batteries (which need a lot of process development to get to any kind of decent cycle life) using the newer designs, you could get range comparable to all current jet liners. And potentially supersonic electric flight.

Is there any way a hybrid could benefit from using an engine cycle optimised to take advantage of the lower temperature heat sink of frigid stratospheric air. Thinking here of combined-cycle engine with a potentially 70degC (20degC - -50degC,   223K as opposed to 293K) increase in the heat sink dT?  The hybrid would climb to altitude on batteries. (Or would this be better on Titan.)

gas-turbine-> steam turbine -> ORC (organic rankine cycle) turbine -> -50degC atmos.
diesel --> ORC -> -50deg atmos.
steam-piston --> ORC -> -50deg atmos.

[using skylon heat exchangers :) ]

Offline gin455res

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Hybrids are neat and all, but full-electric is where it's at. Ultra-high-performance lithium-ion and lithium-sulfur can do 300-400Wh/kg, which should do 1000km with some of those advanced designs, if you're clever. With lithium-air batteries (which need a lot of process development to get to any kind of decent cycle life) using the newer designs, you could get range comparable to all current jet liners. And potentially supersonic electric flight.

Is there any way a hybrid could benefit from using an engine cycle optimised to take advantage of the lower temperature heat sink of frigid stratospheric air. Thinking here of combined-cycle engine with a potentially 70degC (20degC - -50degC,   223K as opposed to 293K) increase in the heat sink dT?  The hybrid would climb to altitude on batteries. (Or would this be better on Titan.)

gas-turbine-> steam turbine -> ORC (organic rankine cycle) turbine -> -50degC atmos.
diesel --> ORC -> -50deg atmos.
steam-piston --> ORC -> -50deg atmos.

[using skylon heat exchangers :) ]
running the steam condenser at 5bar would give the ORC engine an input temperature of 160degC, (the larger the ORC dT the smaller the heat exchanger?)

Offline RonM

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From https://twitter.com/NASAAero

Bolden: Lockheed Martin team wins $20m contract to develop preliminary design for a supersonic X-plane.

Shin: Congratulations to Lockheed Martin team inc GE Aviation and Tri-Models Inc. on prelim design contract.

Shin: This [X-planes and a 10-year plan] is OUR moon shot.

Offline RonM

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NASA Begins Work to Build a Quieter Supersonic Passenger Jet

The return of supersonic passenger air travel is one step closer to reality with NASA's award of a contract for the preliminary design of a “low boom” flight demonstration aircraft. This is the first in a series of ‘X-planes’ in NASA's New Aviation Horizons initiative, introduced in the agency’s Fiscal Year 2017 budget.

NASA Administrator Charles Bolden announced the award at an event Monday at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Arlington, Virginia.

“NASA is working hard to make flight greener, safer and quieter – all while developing aircraft that travel faster, and building an aviation system that operates more efficiently,” said Bolden. “To that end, it’s worth noting that it's been almost 70 years since Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in the Bell X-1 as part of our predecessor agency's high speed research. Now we’re continuing that supersonic X-plane legacy with this preliminary design award for a quieter supersonic jet with an aim toward passenger flight."

NASA selected a team led by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company of Palmdale, California, to complete a preliminary design for Quiet Supersonic Technology (QueSST). The work will be conducted under a task order against the Basic and Applied Aerospace Research and Technology (BAART) contract at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.

After conducting feasibility studies and working to better understand acceptable sound levels across the country, NASA's Commercial Supersonic Technology Project asked industry teams to submit design concepts for a piloted test aircraft that can fly at supersonic speeds, creating a supersonic "heartbeat" -- a soft thump rather than the disruptive boom currently associated with supersonic flight.

“Developing, building and flight testing a quiet supersonic X-plane is the next logical step in our path to enabling the industry's decision to open supersonic travel for the flying public," said Jaiwon Shin, associate administrator for NASA’s Aeronautics Research Mission.

Lockheed Martin will receive about $20 million over 17 months for QueSST preliminary design work. The Lockheed Martin team includes subcontractors GE Aviation of Cincinnati and Tri Models Inc. of Huntington Beach, California.

The company will develop baseline aircraft requirements and a preliminary aircraft design, with specifications, and provide supporting documentation for concept formulation and planning. This documentation would be used to prepare for the detailed design, building and testing of the QueSST jet. Performance of this preliminary design also must undergo analytical and wind tunnel validation.

In addition to design and building, this Low Boom Flight Demonstration (LBFD) phase of the project also will include validation of community response to the new, quieter supersonic design. The detailed design and building of the QueSST aircraft, conducted under the NASA Aeronautics Research Mission Directorate's Integrated Aviation Systems Program, will fall under a future contract competition.

NASA’s 10-year New Aviation Horizons initiative has the ambitious goals of reducing fuel use, emissions and noise through innovations in aircraft design that departs from the conventional tube-and-wing aircraft shape.

The New Aviation Horizons X-planes will typically be about half-scale of a production aircraft and likely are to be piloted. Design-and-build will take several years with aircraft starting their flight campaign around 2020, depending on funding.

For more information about NASA’s aeronautics research, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/aero


Online Lee Jay

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Hybrids are neat and all, but full-electric is where it's at. Ultra-high-performance lithium-ion and lithium-sulfur can do 300-400Wh/kg, which should do 1000km with some of those advanced designs, if you're clever.

I did the math here, with some assumptions.

For a vehicle like a 737, a 1000km flight will consume 7,500kg of fuel or the energy in a 62,500kg 400Wh/kg battery (with 100% conversion efficiency to shaft power).  Aerodynamic and propulsion efficiency isn't going to close that gap.

To do a 1000km flight, you'll have to go much, much slower with the battery-electric system for comparable weight.

Offline robertross

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Well not to stomp on the parade, and this would be Chris' call, but is seems to me this announcement is in the realm of aeronautics, not spaceflight.

(though personally I think it's well overdue to have another supersonic aircraft, and it's wickedly cool stuff)
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Online Blackstar

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Online Lar

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Well not to stomp on the parade, and this would be Chris' call, but is seems to me this announcement is in the realm of aeronautics, not spaceflight.

(though personally I think it's well overdue to have another supersonic aircraft, and it's wickedly cool stuff)
Good point. That's what the "report to moderator" button is for, put in a note saying you're not sure if this is on topic or not.

ME, I'm going to plump for leaving it because it's NASA rather than just some random cool plane... when **I** use the "report to moderator" button soon as I hit submit.
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Online Chris Bergin

Yeah, all valid points. I'd say it's cool and if no one's interested no one would post. I say leave it as-is.

Offline Star One

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Well not to stomp on the parade, and this would be Chris' call, but is seems to me this announcement is in the realm of aeronautics, not spaceflight.

(though personally I think it's well overdue to have another supersonic aircraft, and it's wickedly cool stuff)

Have you forgotten what the 'A' stands for in NASA. This is a personal bugbear for me.
« Last Edit: 02/29/2016 10:06 PM by Star One »

Offline Rocket Science

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Well not to stomp on the parade, and this would be Chris' call, but is seems to me this announcement is in the realm of aeronautics, not spaceflight.

(though personally I think it's well overdue to have another supersonic aircraft, and it's wickedly cool stuff)

Have you forgotten what the 'A' stands for in NASA. This is a personal bugbear for me.
Unfortunately for many years it is spelled "NaSA"... :(
“The laws of physics are unforgiving”...
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Offline robertross

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Well not to stomp on the parade, and this would be Chris' call, but is seems to me this announcement is in the realm of aeronautics, not spaceflight.

(though personally I think it's well overdue to have another supersonic aircraft, and it's wickedly cool stuff)

Have you forgotten what the 'A' stands for in NASA. This is a personal bugbear for me.

Not at all. I have also been following this thread. I also follow the yearly budgets and appropriations that define the aeronautics portion of NASA's budget.

However, people also seem to forget the name of this site: NASASpaceflight. This is about all things related to space. Certain relates topics have been challenged before, such as unmanned spaceflight & science, as there are specific sites more appropriate than this one. But it had relevance to space, so it was included over time. This vehicle will not go into space: it is for passenger air travel. It is only with the inclusion of NASA that this topic is being covered.

But Chris has no objections, and that's fine. So let's move on.
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Online kevin-rf

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However, people also seem to forget the name of this site: NASASpaceflight.
Not NASASpaceflight ;)

Of course in the old days the S used to be a C, NACA!
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

Offline Star One

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However, people also seem to forget the name of this site: NASASpaceflight.
Not NASASpaceflight ;)

Of course in the old days the S used to be a C, NACA!

That's going back a bit.;)

Offline QuantumG

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Faster planes sound great, but personally I just wish more airlines would offer sleepers in coach - and do it better than using up three seats. There's all this unused space between my head and the luggage bin, and even a little under the seat. It's perfect for bunk beds. All the reasons the DC-6B failed are long gone, bring back the sleeper.

When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Online kevin-rf

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Oh my, checked whois and NACASpaceFlight.com is available! Quick, hit the mod button and let Chris know!

Kinda bummed it wasn't something that had more near term potential. Like the blended body or the turbo electric hybrid fan. I wonder why they went for sizzle.
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

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