Author Topic: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)  (Read 38898 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« on: 01/20/2016 11:34 AM »
Previous threads:

Thread 1:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13744.0

Thread 2:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35117.0

NSF content on SS2:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=SS2

Please stay on topic and be civil at all times.

---

Had to start this one again (for a third time) as this is not Parabolic Arc's comment section and people who have a problem with an article on that site should comment on that site, not use this site to attack it.

Offline Star One

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Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #1 on: 02/18/2016 09:03 PM »
Virgin Galactic will unveil its new spaceplane tomorrow

Quote
Tomorrow, private spaceflight company Virgin Galactic will unveil the newest version of SpaceShipTwo — the reusable spaceplane that will become the company's primary vehicle. The company has been without a main vehicle since October 2014, when a crash killed one test pilot and seriously injured another. After the accident, many journalists and industry experts expressed skepticism about Virgin Galactic’s reliability. This new vehicle could help the company stage their comeback.

Quote
Of course, that all depends on how well SpaceShipTwo performs. The new vehicle will be structurally identical to the one that was lost, but there will be more automation, Virgin Galactic has said. The design change is in response to the 2014 cash, which was partly due to pilot error. New failsafes have been added to prevent such mistakes from happening in the future, the company has said, without explaining any specific details.

The first test flights of SpaceShipTwo will begin sometime this year, and that’s when the changes will be truly evaluated. Virgin Galactic has had trouble in testing before. Besides the 2014 crash, a rocket engine exploded in 2007 during testing, killing three people.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11045184/virgin-galactic-spaceshiptwo-reusable-spaceplane-unveiling
« Last Edit: 02/18/2016 09:05 PM by Star One »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #2 on: 02/19/2016 01:00 AM »
Virgin Galactic will unveil its new spaceplane tomorrow

Quote
The new vehicle will be structurally identical to the one that was lost, but there will be more automation, Virgin Galactic has said. The design change is in response to the 2014 cash, which was partly due to pilot error. New failsafes have been added to prevent such mistakes from happening in the future, the company has said, without explaining any specific details.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11045184/virgin-galactic-spaceshiptwo-reusable-spaceplane-unveiling

I wish that it was all automated like Dream Chaser.

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #3 on: 02/19/2016 01:19 AM »
Does anyone know if the unveiling will be streamed online?
I tried it at home

Offline CameronD

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #4 on: 02/19/2016 01:43 AM »
Virgin Galactic will unveil its new spaceplane tomorrow

Quote
The new vehicle will be structurally identical to the one that was lost, but there will be more automation, Virgin Galactic has said. The design change is in response to the 2014 cash, which was partly due to pilot error. New failsafes have been added to prevent such mistakes from happening in the future, the company has said, without explaining any specific details.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11045184/virgin-galactic-spaceshiptwo-reusable-spaceplane-unveiling

I wish that it was all automated like Dream Chaser.

The fluffy dice was a nice touch.. yes, if it was automated, it'd need the fluffy dice.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline ChrisC

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #5 on: 02/19/2016 01:54 AM »

http://www.virgingalactic.com/what-spaceshiptwos-rollout-milestone-means-and-whats-next/

Quote
If you are expecting SpaceShipTwo to blast off and head straight to space on the day we unveil her, let us disillusion you now: this will be a ground-based celebration. Indeed, our new vehicle will remain on the ground for a while after her unveiling, as we run her through full-vehicle tests of her electrical systems and all of her moving parts.  ... Once that is done, we’ll be eager to get air under the wings of our new spaceship. We’ll begin first with captive carry flight, during which SpaceShipTwo stays firmly mated to her mothership, WhiteKnightTwo. Once that is completed, we’ll move to glide testing, where our new spaceship flies freely for the first time as a glider coming home from an altitude of 45,000+ feet (14 km) while our incredible pilots test out her handling. ... After several glide flights have been completed and we are satisfied with the results, rocket-powered test flights are next. We will execute a thoughtful and steady progression of flights. Each mission will be designed to test something important: how the heat from the rocket motor dissipates in the rear of the vehicle, how the vehicle behaves when breaking the sound barrier on both ascent and descent, how closely our models of forces on the vehicle match reality. ... Each flight will generally fly a little higher, a little faster, and sometimes we may need to repeat a test point to get additional data or confirm a result.

As far the unveil event, you might keep an eye on their Youtube account, and Twitter of course.
« Last Edit: 02/19/2016 01:56 AM by ChrisC »
NASA TV in HD:  history, FAQ and latest status

Offline Eric Hedman

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Offline Prober

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #7 on: 02/19/2016 02:37 PM »
Does anyone know if the unveiling will be streamed online?


have this on just in case.


http://original.livestream.com/virgingalactic
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline TruthIsStranger

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Online Chris Bergin

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #9 on: 02/19/2016 05:49 PM »
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic  25m25 minutes ago
Today’s the day. We’ve been working hard on #SpaceShipTwo. Ready to meet her? Follow us here & on new Instagram acct http://www.instagram.com/virgingalactic/

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #10 on: 02/19/2016 09:19 PM »
Virgin Spaceship (VSS) Unity. Named by Prof. Hawking.

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #11 on: 02/19/2016 10:01 PM »
Quote
But one of the ship's key improvements will prevent another disaster like the November 2014 accident that killed pilot Michael Alsbury.
At the time, the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that Alsbury deployed a feathering re-entry system too early, and that Virgin Galactic hadn't planned ahead for such human errors. The new spaceplane has safeguards in place to make sure that doesn't happen again, and the company is emphasizing a renewed commitment to careful testing.

http://www.popsci.com/this-is-virgin-galactics-new-spaceplane-named-unity

Offline catdlr

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #12 on: 02/19/2016 10:46 PM »
Sir Richard Branson Rolls Out New SpaceShipTwo ‘Unity’ | Raw Video

Published on Feb 19, 2016
Escorted by corporate sponsor Land Rover, Virgin Galactic unveiled its second spaceship on 19 February 2016. Espousing a passionate belief that tomorrow will be better than today’ and that space travel is a vital part of that future, Branson and his exec-team presented the craft in Virgin livery paint for the first time.

Tony De La Rosa

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #13 on: 02/19/2016 10:48 PM »
I never like re-writing press releases, but I've found a bit of an angle....one you'll understand when you see who I'm quoting! (I literally yelped when I saw his name on the quotes ;D) Give me a few hours :)

Offline Prober

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #14 on: 02/19/2016 11:30 PM »
so what's everyone's impression of SS2?

maybe a camera angle issue, but did they change the center of gravity on it?

 
« Last Edit: 02/20/2016 06:23 PM by Prober »
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #15 on: 02/20/2016 12:02 AM »
Branson riding the car pulling "Unity"... Ha, you've got to roll your eyes.  ;D

Online sanman

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #16 on: 02/20/2016 12:27 AM »
At least there were no glamour girls parading with it.    ;D

The VSS Unity looks very snazzy though - very glossy, fiberglass look - like something you'd see for a new private jet.



I think there's glimpse of Star Wars actor Harrison Ford at the end of the clip.







« Last Edit: 02/20/2016 12:36 AM by sanman »


Online kevinof

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #18 on: 02/20/2016 12:36 AM »
Good article Chris. That's a good catch for them (having Moses on board).

Wish them luck.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/02/moses-guide-vss-unity-her-north-star/

Focused on Mike Moses, as opposed to the fluff....because Mike Moses is a legend.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #19 on: 02/20/2016 02:18 AM »
Here is another video:


Offline catdlr

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #20 on: 02/20/2016 05:34 AM »
Official Virgin Galactic videos:

Celebrating Unity - Our Journey

Published on Feb 19, 2016
We are proud to introduce not only our brand new vehicle 'Virgin Spaceship Unity', but also some of our incredible team who are making our dream of opening up space to change the world for good, a reality.

Tony De La Rosa

Offline catdlr

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #21 on: 02/20/2016 05:35 AM »
At SpaceshipTwo Christening, Sarah Brightman Sings Happy Birthday | Video

Published on Feb 19, 2016
In line with his intent to make space travel safe for families, Virgin Galactic founder Richard Branson let his granddaughter – Eva-Deia, one year old today – spill some ceremonial milk across the bow of ‘Unity,’ as SS2 will now be called.

Tony De La Rosa

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #22 on: 02/20/2016 06:45 AM »
The savior of spaceflight has arrived. ;D

Offline Hauerg

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #23 on: 02/20/2016 06:58 AM »
Is it only me or are they celebrating too much taking into account the "achievements" of the last decade+ ?

Offline Star One

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Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #24 on: 02/20/2016 08:26 AM »
What's the betting that in spite of the spin there are more improvements and changes on this than they are admitting too.
« Last Edit: 02/20/2016 08:27 AM by Star One »

Offline mfck

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #25 on: 02/20/2016 11:35 AM »
What's the betting that in spite of the spin there are more improvements and changes on this than they are admitting too.
Well, the people driving the spin might be sincerely unaware of some technical changes and improvements. It's Virgin Galactic, after all.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be sufficiently explained by incompetence."

Offline Confusador

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #26 on: 02/20/2016 01:21 PM »
What's the betting that in spite of the spin there are more improvements and changes on this than they are admitting too.

That'd be difficult, since they're claiming they changed a lot.  To pull a quote from the SpaceNews article:

Quote from: Jeff Foust
Moses added that there are other, unspecified changes to the vehicle as a result of the accident. “We used the lens of that accident to look at everything else we do, in manufacturing, in ground processing, in servicing the vehicle and in flying the vehicle,” he said. “We looked at systems way beyond what the scope of the accident investigation asked us to look at.”

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #27 on: 02/20/2016 01:35 PM »
Thanks for the great article Chris and all who helped with the coverage of the roll-out. :) Nice to see Harrison Ford at the controls even if on the ground he being another "old stick and rudder guy"... ;D Having Mike is a definite plus to the program; however he can only make it as safe as the system design will allow. Perhaps obvious or not but still needs to be said IMHO...
“The laws of physics are unforgiving”...
Rob

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #28 on: 02/20/2016 02:31 PM »

What's the betting that in spite of the spin there are more improvements and changes on this than they are admitting too.

That'd be difficult, since they're claiming they changed a lot.  To pull a quote from the SpaceNews article:

Quote from: Jeff Foust
Moses added that there are other, unspecified changes to the vehicle as a result of the accident. “We used the lens of that accident to look at everything else we do, in manufacturing, in ground processing, in servicing the vehicle and in flying the vehicle,” he said. “We looked at systems way beyond what the scope of the accident investigation asked us to look at.”

That's the first time I've seen that quote, so thanks for that. Good that they've improved things just a shame that it could be said it cost a man his life to do so.

Offline Borklund

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #29 on: 02/20/2016 03:38 PM »
Promotional video starring Malala Yousafzai



My pillows are less fluffier than this

Offline yg1968

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #30 on: 02/20/2016 03:46 PM »
It seems that SS2 now has a skid at the front.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #31 on: 02/20/2016 04:25 PM »
That's the first time I've seen that quote, so thanks for that. Good that they've improved things just a shame that it could be said it cost a man his life to do so.
I recently watched "The Right Stuff" again.  When you see the pictures  of all the pilots who lost their lives in the bar in Mojave you know that this wasn't the first time someone lost their life for advances in aerospace and it won't be the last.  Hopefully it will remain an increasingly rare occurrence. 

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #32 on: 02/20/2016 06:19 PM »

That's the first time I've seen that quote, so thanks for that. Good that they've improved things just a shame that it could be said it cost a man his life to do so.
I recently watched "The Right Stuff" again.  When you see the pictures  of all the pilots who lost their lives in the bar in Mojave you know that this wasn't the first time someone lost their life for advances in aerospace and it won't be the last.  Hopefully it will remain an increasingly rare occurrence.

Oh yes that's an apt comparison. It probably seems more shocking to many, me included, because such events are as you say thankfully less common.

Offline Comga

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #33 on: 02/20/2016 09:21 PM »
Promotional video starring Malala Yousafzai



My pillows are less fluffier than this

Perhaps, but I would rather watch Ms Yousfazai than Sir Richard.

Her video ends with her asking "Is it a bit slow?"
Was she referring to her commentary or the development effort? :P
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline ethan829

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #34 on: 02/21/2016 12:29 PM »
It seems that SS2 now has a skid at the front.


VSS Enterprise did as well.

Offline parabolicarc

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #35 on: 02/21/2016 06:11 PM »
The devil is in the details.

Was building virtually a carbon copy of the first ship a wise move?

Or does the new ship incorporate some of the same flaws that Scaled built into it?

Are they going to flight test the shit out of it?

Or are they pursuing a shorted powered flight test program along the lines of reckless program they had planned before the first ship went down?

Everyone said all the right things on Friday. But, they said the same things about safety before the crash. It was more rhetorical than real.


 

Offline woods170

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #36 on: 02/21/2016 06:40 PM »
The devil is in the details.

Was building virtually a carbon copy of the first ship a wise move?

Or does the new ship incorporate some of the same flaws that Scaled built into it?

Are they going to flight test the shit out of it?

Or are they pursuing a shorted powered flight test program along the lines of reckless program they had planned before the first ship went down?

Everyone said all the right things on Friday. But, they said the same things about safety before the crash. It was more rhetorical than real.


 
Mr. Negativity is back on this thread. Could you for once, just for once, add something constructive to VG threads, in stead of just taking random stabs? Thanks.

Offline Comga

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #37 on: 02/21/2016 07:44 PM »
When SpaceX had their LOV on CRS-7 they didn't just upgrade the struts that were the direct cause of their accident. They say they have made many improvements.
VG claims to have done the same for SS2 #2.
It's a shame that didn't include a switch to liquid propulsion.
Even VG says that's the way to go long term.
They talk about their Newton engines but not about any future Mk 2 hybrid engines.
"No matter how far you have gone gown the wrong road, turn back."
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #38 on: 02/21/2016 07:48 PM »
Moses says their new rubber burning engine is working great, so I'd like to see it fly. Rocket engine development isn't a spigot that you can turn off and back on again. When Markusic it was a serious blow to their liquidization project.
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #39 on: 02/22/2016 03:02 AM »
I'm really quite impressed by this neat bit of spin, as reported to the press on the day:

Quote
The accident was blamed on pilot error and oversights by Northrop Grumman Corp's Scaled Composites division, which designed, built and tested the first vehicle, known as SpaceShipTwo.

Virgin Galactic's own manufacturing arm, The Spaceship Company, already was well into construction of the second SpaceShipTwo of the fleet when the accident occurred.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-20/virgin-galactic-set-to-debut-new-passenger-spaceship/7186108


I mean, why take the blame for something when you can blame someone else?  ::)

« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 03:05 AM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #40 on: 02/22/2016 03:58 AM »
Was building virtually a carbon copy of the first ship a wise move?

Yes. Starting from scratch would have cost them another ten years with no guarantee that the new design would be any better. (Hint. They should have stuck with SpaceShip One.)

Quote
Or does the new ship incorporate some of the same flaws that Scaled built into it?

They have said they have fixed the known problems. Flight testing should hopefully bring out any other unknown problems.

Quote
Are they going to flight test the shit out of it?

According to Mike Moses, yes. Read the NSF article.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/02/moses-guide-vss-unity-her-north-star/

“We have tested thousands of elements of the ship and still need to test many more. Reaching milestones like our first glide flight and our first powered flight are exciting, but at every step of the way we will do everything possible to make sure that the each of the next steps are safe – and ultimately ready to fly you into space.”
« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 04:04 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline sdsds

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #41 on: 02/22/2016 04:37 AM »
Would it be too soon to start asking Virgin Galactic about the number of flight tests the second vehicle will fly that essentially duplicate what the first vehicle had already flown? Could they be planning flight test 1 as unpowered, and then immediately moving to a powered flight test 2?
-- sdsds --

Offline matthewkantar

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #42 on: 02/22/2016 05:02 AM »
I have waited patiently, is no one going to make a big deal of the baby breaking a bottle on the ship with out safety glasses? North star my eye. <snark

Matthew

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #43 on: 02/22/2016 08:36 AM »

Quote
Mr. Negativity is back on this thread. Could you for once, just for once, add something constructive to VG threads, in stead of just taking random stabs? Thanks.

I also appreciate the informed critiques that parabolicarc has been making. There's been plenty of PR-type cheerleading coming from VG and insufficient realism, IMHO.

Yes, we all want to see them succeed, but ignoring their many problems is rather like trying not to discuss the elephant in the living room.

It's not asking for an uncritical echo chamber but rather that particular poster seems to have a relentlessly negative agenda.

Offline ethan829

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #44 on: 02/22/2016 10:34 AM »
Would it be too soon to start asking Virgin Galactic about the number of flight tests the second vehicle will fly that essentially duplicate what the first vehicle had already flown? Could they be planning flight test 1 as unpowered, and then immediately moving to a powered flight test 2?


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700775349240467456
Quote
Moses: not giving a schedule for test program; this is requirements-based, so not planning a specific number of flights at each step.


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700777028614664192
Quote
Shane: in captive carry flights will have 95% of propulsion system installed. Propulsion was “long pole” for 1st SS2 by years.


That sounds to me like they're going to be going through the entire testing regime again, captive, glide, and powered. Although I'd be surprised if the captive and glide tests weren't de-emphasized somewhat, given how thoroughly the last vehicle explored those areas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Enterprise#List_of_test_flights

Offline woods170

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #45 on: 02/22/2016 10:45 AM »
The devil is in the details.

Was building virtually a carbon copy of the first ship a wise move?

Or does the new ship incorporate some of the same flaws that Scaled built into it?

Are they going to flight test the shit out of it?

Or are they pursuing a shorted powered flight test program along the lines of reckless program they had planned before the first ship went down?

Everyone said all the right things on Friday. But, they said the same things about safety before the crash. It was more rhetorical than real.


 
Mr. Negativity is back on this thread. Could you for once, just for once, add something constructive to VG threads, in stead of just taking random stabs? Thanks.


Woods why put fuel on the fire with a neg comment about someone whom you dislike...just screen out his comments and move on.


No, I won't. I'll explain why. Below is my personal opinion on this:

The reporting done here on NSF is of the highest standard and always neutral in tone and objective. Lot's of kudos to Chris, the other Chris and all those other great authors and editors on this site. In the past decade they have managed to establish and maintain a very high standard of reporting on anything spaceflight.

But whereas reporting on NSF is of the highest standards possible for journalism, the reporting on parabolicarc.com is most decidedly not. Over the years their reporting on anything VG has ever so gradually become biased and subjective towards the negative.
Now, that would not be a problem if that remained confined to parabolicarc.com. Unfortunately, their primary author has found it necessary to start spreading his FUD over here, at NSF. I really don't care for that. IMO it drags down the quality of NSF. IMO he is free to voice whatever biased opinion he has at his own site, but he should not be doing that over here as well. And IMO the folks at parabolicarc would be well advised to take an example from NSF, Spacenews, SFN, etc. where the journalism is done the way it is supposed to: be neutral and objective.

But I digress.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 10:47 AM by woods170 »

Offline SimonFD

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #46 on: 02/22/2016 10:49 AM »
Would it be too soon to start asking Virgin Galactic about the number of flight tests the second vehicle will fly that essentially duplicate what the first vehicle had already flown? Could they be planning flight test 1 as unpowered, and then immediately moving to a powered flight test 2?


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700775349240467456
Quote
Moses: not giving a schedule for test program; this is requirements-based, so not planning a specific number of flights at each step.


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700777028614664192
Quote
Shane: in captive carry flights will have 95% of propulsion system installed. Propulsion was “long pole” for 1st SS2 by years.


That sounds to me like they're going to be going through the entire testing regime again, captive, glide, and powered. Although I'd be surprised if the captive and glide tests weren't de-emphasized somewhat, given how thoroughly the last vehicle explored those areas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Enterprise#List_of_test_flights

I would expect (or is that hope) that VG consider this a completely new vehicle type and start testing again. Any changes made to the airframe or internals to support the findings of the NTSB enquiry or their own previous testing, could affect the flight characteristics and so a full regression test regime should be implemented.

With Mike Moses on board, this is what I would expect.
Space is big! Really big! You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is! I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. Listen............

Offline yg1968

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #47 on: 02/22/2016 02:11 PM »
The devil is in the details.

Was building virtually a carbon copy of the first ship a wise move?

Or does the new ship incorporate some of the same flaws that Scaled built into it?

Are they going to flight test the shit out of it?

Or are they pursuing a shorted powered flight test program along the lines of reckless program they had planned before the first ship went down?

Everyone said all the right things on Friday. But, they said the same things about safety before the crash. It was more rhetorical than real.


 
Mr. Negativity is back on this thread. Could you for once, just for once, add something constructive to VG threads, in stead of just taking random stabs? Thanks.


Woods why put fuel on the fire with a neg comment about someone whom you dislike...just screen out his comments and move on.


No, I won't. I'll explain why. Below is my personal opinion on this:

The reporting done here on NSF is of the highest standard and always neutral in tone and objective. Lot's of kudos to Chris, the other Chris and all those other great authors and editors on this site. In the past decade they have managed to establish and maintain a very high standard of reporting on anything spaceflight.

But whereas reporting on NSF is of the highest standards possible for journalism, the reporting on parabolicarc.com is most decidedly not. Over the years their reporting on anything VG has ever so gradually become biased and subjective towards the negative.
Now, that would not be a problem if that remained confined to parabolicarc.com. Unfortunately, their primary author has found it necessary to start spreading his FUD over here, at NSF. I really don't care for that. IMO it drags down the quality of NSF. IMO he is free to voice whatever biased opinion he has at his own site, but he should not be doing that over here as well. And IMO the folks at parabolicarc would be well advised to take an example from NSF, Spacenews, SFN, etc. where the journalism is done the way it is supposed to: be neutral and objective.

But I digress.

Yes, I agree. His articles give the impression that he has an agenda against VG. The thing is he is often the first one to report on news relating to VG. So his article do contain a lot of good and often exclusive information. But I wish that it was presented with less of a slant.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 02:13 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #48 on: 02/22/2016 06:55 PM »
IMO - if there is a slant/bias, it is a slant/bias that has a basis in actual past history of what has happened in the last decade, and what has not happened. I certainly appreciate parabolicarc (the site and postings here) for the journalism that he provides - something that few (if any) other sources seem willing to provide.

Pretending that there aren't *significant* issues for them to deal with is not helpful in any way.

(Not that I think that what we write here has a direct effect on the employees at VG - I believe that they are more dedicated and have more important work to do than to be discouraged by some negative postings on NSF)

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #49 on: 02/22/2016 07:00 PM »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700777028614664192
Quote
Shane: in captive carry flights will have 95% of propulsion system installed. Propulsion was “long pole” for 1st SS2 by years.

That sounds to me like they're going to be going through the entire testing regime again, captive, glide, and powered. Although I'd be surprised if the captive and glide tests weren't de-emphasized somewhat, given how thoroughly the last vehicle explored those areas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Enterprise#List_of_test_flights

Thanks for the quote; it is encouraging to see the use of the plural in "captive carry flights!" What are the odds they glide on flight test 3? ;)
I think that's where we'll see whether they "walk the walk" or just "talk the talk" when it comes to thorough retesting.
-- sdsds --

Offline A8-3

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #50 on: 02/22/2016 07:11 PM »
Quote
IMO - if there is a slant/bias, it is a slant/bias that has a basis in actual past history of what has happened in the last decade, and what has not happened. I certainly appreciate parabolicarc (the site and postings here) for the journalism that he provides - something that few (if any) other sources seem willing to provide.

I share this opinion. It seems they never had a realistic idea of what it was going to take, they constantly over hyped, and it's hard not to conclude that this contributed to the deaths of four men.

If you haven't read parabilocarc's coverage of the nitrous oxide explosion that killed three, do so now. Maybe then you'll understand why he has the opinion he does.

Offline parabolicarc

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #51 on: 02/22/2016 07:47 PM »
Would it be too soon to start asking Virgin Galactic about the number of flight tests the second vehicle will fly that essentially duplicate what the first vehicle had already flown? Could they be planning flight test 1 as unpowered, and then immediately moving to a powered flight test 2?


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700775349240467456
Quote
Moses: not giving a schedule for test program; this is requirements-based, so not planning a specific number of flights at each step.


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/700777028614664192
Quote
Shane: in captive carry flights will have 95% of propulsion system installed. Propulsion was “long pole” for 1st SS2 by years.


That sounds to me like they're going to be going through the entire testing regime again, captive, glide, and powered. Although I'd be surprised if the captive and glide tests weren't de-emphasized somewhat, given how thoroughly the last vehicle explored those areas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Enterprise#List_of_test_flights

I would expect (or is that hope) that VG consider this a completely new vehicle type and start testing again. Any changes made to the airframe or internals to support the findings of the NTSB enquiry or their own previous testing, could affect the flight characteristics and so a full regression test regime should be implemented.

With Mike Moses on board, this is what I would expect.

Moses has been there since October 2011. In other words, he'd been there for 3 years prior to the crash.

At the time of the accident, they had planned one additional flight test around three to four weeks after the Halloween one. There would probably have been another one to maximum altitude in December. Then they were going to turn it over to Virgin Galactic in December.  Commercial flights would have begun shortly thereafter from New Mexico with Branson & Son aboard the first flight.

So, think about that. Three short flights to low altitudes with one engine. Perhaps three others with a different engine with different characteristics. One flight to max altitude. And that's the entire powered flight test program.

What my sources were telling me is that Virgin Galactic was under financial pressure due to low funds and schedule pressure from Aabar to wrap up the flight test program and begin commercial flights. Despite Moses being there with all his expertise, the remaining flight test program was being driven by schedule and financial pressure, not by requirements.

This is what makes me cautious. Are Moses and the engineers now in charge, letting them do a thorough flight test program. Or will it still be driven at partly by cost and schedule (flight tests are expensive and time consuming) and by competitive pressure (Blue Origin)?

The original plan had been to do 30 powered flights. If they take a newish vehicle with a bunch of changes, zip through the captive carry and glide flights, then do only a handful of powered test, then how safe would you feel flying on this thing?

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #52 on: 08/01/2016 05:46 PM »
FOR  RELEASE –    AUGUST 1, 2016

FAA-AST AWARDS VIRGIN GALACTIC OPERATOR LICENSE FOR SPACESHIPTWO

New Spaceship Conducts Taxi Test as it Nears Start of Flight Test Program

Mojave, CA - August 1 2016 – The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s Office of Commercial Space Transportation (FAA-AST) has awarded Virgin Galactic an operating license for SpaceShipTwo.

The license award comes as the new vehicle, VSS Unity, begins to stretch its legs with the first tests conducted out of the hangar.  Unity conducted the first taxi test today to evaluate and calibrate the navigation and communications/telemetry systems.  Unity was pulled by a Range Rover Autobiography provided by Virgin Galactic's automotive partner Land Rover, the same vehicle that will be used to tow Unity off the runway after flight tests.

The license award, which will ultimately permit commercial operations of the vehicle, was the culmination of several years of in-depth interaction with the FAA.  The license review process consists of an in-depth review of the vehicle’s system design, safety analysis and flight trajectory analysis, culminating in FAA-AST approval.

Virgin Galactic Senior Vice President of Operations Mike Moses said, “The granting of our operator license is an important milestone for Virgin Galactic, as is our first taxi test for our new spaceship.  While we still have much work ahead to fully test this spaceship in flight, I am confident that our world-class team is up to the challenge.”

For more information and media inquiries:

 

http://www.image.net/virgingalactic

http://www.virgingalactic.com 

http://thespaceshipcompany.com/   

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #53 on: 08/01/2016 07:04 PM »
The license review process consists of an in-depth review of the vehicle’s system design, safety analysis and flight trajectory analysis, culminating in FAA-AST approval.

But clearly no review of in-flight test results of the rocket engine, as it hasn't ever flown!

I'm struggling to understand the point of a regulatory process that looks at the design and analysis but doesn't require flight test results.

Or is this licence conditional or caveated in some way, such as provided flight test results are in-line with design analysis predictions?

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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #55 on: 08/01/2016 07:47 PM »
Ok, to answer my own question it turns out the licence doesn't cover space flight participants (ie paying passengers) until further test evidence is submitted to FAA. So right now VG is limited to test flights, although non-deployed payloads are possible.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2016 07:52 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Archibald

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #56 on: 08/09/2016 09:42 AM »
Overall I rate Parabolicarc way, way above NASA watch (which has become a caricature of itself a loooong time ago and never came back)

Quote
At the time of the accident, they had planned one additional flight test around three to four weeks after the Halloween one. There would probably have been another one to maximum altitude in December. Then they were going to turn it over to Virgin Galactic in December.  Commercial flights would have begun shortly thereafter from New Mexico with Branson & Son aboard the first flight.

So, think about that. Three short flights to low altitudes with one engine. Perhaps three others with a different engine with different characteristics. One flight to max altitude. And that's the entire powered flight test program.

What my sources were telling me is that Virgin Galactic was under financial pressure due to low funds and schedule pressure from Aabar to wrap up the flight test program and begin commercial flights. Despite Moses being there with all his expertise, the remaining flight test program was being driven by schedule and financial pressure, not by requirements.

This is what makes me cautious. Are Moses and the engineers now in charge, letting them do a thorough flight test program. Or will it still be driven at partly by cost and schedule (flight tests are expensive and time consuming) and by competitive pressure (Blue Origin)?

The original plan had been to do 30 powered flights. If they take a newish vehicle with a bunch of changes, zip through the captive carry and glide flights, then do only a handful of powered test, then how safe would you feel flying on this thing?

So they went from 30 to 7 (or less) test flights along the years. Indeed it says about the lack of funding and pressure they were on. All things considered, not unlike NASA in the pre-Challenger days, with similar result. Spaceflight reality is hard. Try to get ride of it, and it come bitting you hard.
« Last Edit: 08/09/2016 09:45 AM by Archibald »

Offline catdlr

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #57 on: 08/27/2016 05:14 AM »
[GSF]Tour of FAITH

Virgin Galactic

Published on Aug 26, 2016

Update 8/27/2016 video removed by user.

« Last Edit: 08/28/2016 03:26 AM by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #58 on: 08/28/2016 02:48 AM »
Video has been taken down. Can anyone who saw it please summarize?

Offline DeimosDream

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #59 on: 08/28/2016 01:20 PM »
Video has been taken down. Can anyone who saw it please summarize?

The video featured an extremely wide angle fish-eye lens oriented to show a 360-degree view plus ceiling. This distorted features of interest and may have reveled more than than permitted even if public release was intended.

The video began in the parking lot, led the narrator through several corridors and then across a working hanger containing a White Knight and a Space Ship Two.

Regrettably I ended the video when travel paused beneath what I assume where the twin tails of the White Knight before the Branson cut-out was found. I had grown tired of trying to mentally unwarp the video and falsely assumed the rest of the forum would shortly perform a more complete analysis than I ever could.

Offline NaN

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #60 on: 08/28/2016 09:21 PM »
The video featured an extremely wide angle fish-eye lens oriented to show a 360-degree view plus ceiling. This distorted features of interest and may have reveled more than than permitted even if public release was intended.

The 'distorted' view is actually intended to let you look around in any direction as if you were there, VR-style but without stereoscopic depth perception. On my phone, I could rotate the phone in any direction around me (360-circle, up, down, etc) and see what lay in that direction. Search youtube for a video "spacex landing on droneship 360 view" to see a similar video, you should play around with different devices and browsers to find one that works correctly next time you see this type of video. My laptop still gives me arrows to move viewing direction around instead of distorting the view.

I didn't get to see the entire video but it gave a good view of the ship from the front and the carrier craft from the rear. The viewpoint was from the walkway through the hangar; I didn't see anything overtly new. Both craft looked to be in good shape and both were being actively worked on. Pity it's been taken down.

Online Kryten

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #61 on: 09/07/2016 03:34 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic  2m2 minutes ago
#SpaceShipTwo is mated to WhiteKnightTwo and headed outside now. Today, we’re conducting some final mated communications & navigation checks

Offline Star One

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Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #62 on: 09/08/2016 07:12 PM »
Quote
Good morning from Mojave! VSS Unity and WhiteKnightTwo are outside again for a bit of testing. #SpaceShipTwo

Picture on link

https://mobile.twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/773935459684618240

Quote
Today’s flight is planned to be a captive carry flight—where #SpaceShipTwo remains mated to our mothership.

Quote
Like every flight of #SpaceShipTwo, this mission is crewed. Two of our pilots in VSS Unity, two more in WhiteKnightTwo

Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic
Wheels up! WhiteKnightTwo & #SpaceShipTwo are now in the air. This is 1st ever flight of a vehicle built by our sister co, @TheSpaceshipCo
« Last Edit: 09/08/2016 07:17 PM by Star One »

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #63 on: 09/08/2016 07:19 PM »
Just watched it take off from the flightline. It's good to see a spaceship in the air again, even if it is just on a captive carry.
I tried it at home

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #64 on: 09/08/2016 07:22 PM »
Virgin just posted a picture on twitter: https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/773963759161217024
« Last Edit: 09/08/2016 07:23 PM by Gliderflyer »
I tried it at home

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #65 on: 09/08/2016 07:36 PM »
Update From Mojave: Preparations For Unity’s Flight Test Program

In the near future, our new spaceship, VSS Unity, will take to the skies for the first time. Having spent years designing, manufacturing, and testing the parts and subsystems that make up SpaceShipTwo, followed by several months of thorough and rigorous Integrated Vehicle Ground Testing, we are excited to take Unity into her natural airborne environment for the start of her flight test program.

Experimental flight test programs are by definition open-ended, and to a great extent each test depends on the data from the test that precedes it. There is no guarantee that everything will work perfectly the first time, and like all programs seeking to take bold steps, we will inevitably have times when things don’t go as planned. Our team’s biggest challenge is to use meticulous planning and preparation to ensure that any such setbacks are dealt with safely, and that every outcome, whether it matches our expectations or not, informs and improves future performance.

We are helped greatly in this respect by the fact that VSS Unity is, of course, the second SpaceShipTwo vehicle to undergo flight testing. Our first SpaceShipTwo, VSS Enterprise, flew 54 times prior to its test flight accident, generating an enormous volume of data and experience. These data points helped us build safety improvements into VSS Unity. The data also allow us to plan out a flight test program that is safer and potentially more efficient: in many cases we will be re-confirming measures of vehicle performance rather than experiencing them for the first time. That advantage generates increased levels of confidence and should benefit our rate of progress.

In any human spaceflight program there is, rightly, a high level of attention paid to crew safety—including not only what happens when everything is happening as planned, but also what happens when something unexpected happens at any stage of flight. At Virgin Galactic, this approach is brought sharply into focus by the fact that all our flight tests are crewed by at least two pilots. This means that even for relatively more simple and brief flights, we need to be prepared to run a full abort scenario to bring our pilots home safely.

As a case in point, the very first flight that VSS Unity makes will be what we call a Captive Carry test – the spaceship will remain “mated” to the WhiteKnightTwo carrier aircraft (VMS Eve) for the duration of the flight, from takeoff all the way through landing. Although it will be great to see our beautiful new spaceship in the air, VSS Unity will be some way from demonstrating her full potential during that first flight. But this flight isn’t just a dress rehearsal; it is an excellent way to generate valuable test data. Throughout the flight, WhiteKnightTwo will serve as a unique “flying wind tunnel,” letting us safely capture high fidelity aerodynamic performance data on the vehicle. Our pilots, mission controllers, and ground operations teams will gain further experience operating a crewed flight. By bringing the vehicle and our crew home safely after the start of the mission but prior to spacecraft release and rocket ignition, they will effectively also be testing out one of our abort modes. Finally, the flight test will confirm extensive simulation and ground testing by showing the real performance of many subsystems and components at cold temperatures, low atmospheric pressures, and high aircraft-like altitudes.

All of those data points will be very useful for us as we move into what comes next: a series of glide flight tests, during which Unity is released to fly home on her own, followed by rocket-powered flight tests of increasingly ambitious scope.

We could not be more excited to move to this next stage of our test program. After years of important in-factory testing, our engineering and operations team are eager to move out from our hangars and to start testing in the open skies. In addition to providing critical data, the coming captive carry flight will be an emotional milestone for our company—the first time ever that a vehicle built by The Spaceship Company and operated by Virgin Galactic has ever taken to the skies. This journey to flight has been arduous but rewarding, and we can now move forward with the confidence that comes from knowing that every vehicle component, sub-system, and procedure has been tested and re-tested prior to these flights.

We look forward to sharing our next steps with the world. Please stay tuned to this site and our social media channels (Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn) for more information as our flight testing program progresses.

http://www.virgingalactic.com/update-from-mojave-preparations-for-unitys-flight-test-program/

Offline PhotoEngineer

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #66 on: 09/08/2016 08:17 PM »
Great to see her just take off. Can't wait till she is flying to space.

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #67 on: 09/08/2016 10:51 PM »
They just landed and are taxiing back to the hangar.
I tried it at home

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #68 on: 09/09/2016 12:41 AM »
LA Times article on the resumption of the test program:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-virgin-galactic-20160907-snap-story.html

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #69 on: 09/09/2016 10:35 PM »
Star One press release says they well be taking a slow measured approach to test flights, much same as Blue. Slow it seems but faster in long run.

Offline catdlr

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #70 on: 09/09/2016 11:56 PM »
Virgin Galactic restarts its flight test program for space tourism

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-virgin-galactic-20160907-snap-story.html

Tony De La Rosa

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #71 on: 09/10/2016 12:33 AM »
Elevating Unity - Episode 1: Captive Carry

 
Virgin Galactic

Published on Sep 9, 2016
On September 8, 2016, our new SpaceShipTwo--VSS Unity--took to the skies for the first time. This is first ever flight of a vehicle built by our manufacturing organization, The Spaceship Company.

In this video, Mike Moses--our Senior Vice President of Operations, and a NASA veteran who oversaw dozens of successful flights to space--helps explain this flight and how it fits into the context of our full testing program.

You can read more about this flight test and about what’s coming next here: http://virg.in/abKzK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV1g-dyzYx4?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

Offline Davp99

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #72 on: 09/10/2016 05:23 PM »
Any word on when they will start building # 3 ?
You Only Live Twice

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #73 on: 09/12/2016 01:12 AM »
Any word on when they will start building # 3 ?

Are you worried they might lose this one too?
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #74 on: 09/12/2016 04:51 PM »
Any word on when they will start building # 3 ?

Are you worried they might lose this one too?

Once operational, they'll need several to have any chance to meet the fly all their customers in a reasonable time frame.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #75 on: 09/27/2016 03:42 PM »
Quote
Jeff Foust ‏@jeff_foust  11m11 minutes ago
Virgin Galactic’s George Whitesides says next SpaceShipTwo test flight will be a glide flight, taking place in near future. #IAC2016 (3/3)

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #76 on: 09/27/2016 04:00 PM »
Any word on when they will start building # 3 ?

Are you worried they might lose this one too?

Once operational, they'll need several to have any chance to meet the fly all their customers in a reasonable time frame.

Exactly -- I hope they've already started on the next one.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #77 on: 10/29/2016 01:42 PM »
Quote
Jeff Foust ‏@jeff_foust  2m2 minutes ago
At Explorer’s Club space event in NYC this morning, Virgin Galactic’s CJ Sturckow says first glide flight of 2nd SS2 planned for Tuesday.
« Last Edit: 10/29/2016 01:56 PM by Kryten »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #78 on: 10/29/2016 01:45 PM »
Quote
Sturckow said the plan is to “spot check” the glide flight envelope of SS2 and move into powered flight tests in early 2017.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/792360803051663360

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #80 on: 11/01/2016 12:38 PM »
Quote
#SpaceShipTwo and WhiteKnightTwo are outside now. If everything looks good and the weather cooperates, today we go for a glide test flight

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/793442737299173376

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #81 on: 11/01/2016 12:42 PM »
New VG blog post:

Quote
November 01, 2016
Update From Mojave: The Next Phase Of Flight Test

In September, VSS Unity took to the skies for the first time. It was a fulfilling and emotional experience for our team—but even more so, it was an opportunity to collect great data. Using our carrier airplane, WhiteKnightTwo VMS Eve, as a ‘flying wind tunnel,’ we captured terabytes of extremely valuable data from a nearly four hour long flight.

After thoroughly analyzing that data and completing other planned work on VSS Unity, we are nearly ready to move into the next phase of flight. The results from September’s test were encouraging enough that the team agreed that no further captive carry flights are needed. The next time VSS Unity takes to the sky, we plan for her to be released from the mothership and to glide home on her own for the first time ever.

This test will be the first of a sequence of glide test flights. These flights will cumulatively allow us to test and prove the performance of the vehicle in a variety of conditions: both heavy (e.g. simulating the full weight of a load of fuel, oxidizer, and people) and light (with empty tanks) and in between, at a variety of flight path angles and airspeeds, and so forth.

This testing of the “corners of the box” is designed to demonstrate how VSS Unity will perform as it returns from space, after the feather system is retracted and the vehicle becomes a glider and lands on the runway like an airplane. In addition, this phase of flight will also demonstrate and test our abort modes – which culminate in a safe glide back to the runway.

Our team of flight test experts has developed a set of requirements for each planned test flight as well as detailing exactly what we need to test in order to be ready to proceed to the next phase of rocket powered flights. We will fly as many flights as we need to in order to achieve all these objectives.

Our first glide flight will be focused on testing the fundamental performance and handling qualities of VSS Unity. For this first test, we will keep the vehicle at a light weight and will place a “speed limit” on the pilots (Mach 0.6). Once we analyze the results from this test, we will be cleared to go faster on subsequent tests.

We’re excited to take this next step on our road to space. In the graphic below, you can see where this milestone puts us on that journey—a lot of hard work behind us and still a lot of important work yet to do.

Please stay tuned to this site and our social media channels (Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn) for more information as our flight testing program progresses. Although we will not livestream the upcoming test flight, we will post information on Twitter in real time.

The Testing Road to Space - Infographic (attached)

http://www.virgingalactic.com/update-from-mojave-the-next-phase-of-flight-test/

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #82 on: 11/01/2016 01:36 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 54s55 seconds ago

Wheels up! WhiteKnightTwo & VSS Unity are now in the air.  Photos coming soon. #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/793461347925135360

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #83 on: 11/01/2016 02:15 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 6m6 minutes ago

Images: VSS Unity and mothership VMS Eve shortly after takeoff this morning. Stay tuned for updates on today's test flight #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/793468861781729282

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #84 on: 11/01/2016 02:57 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic‏ @virgingalactic
Crosswinds were high & gusty here in Mojave--which scrubbed the glide portion of today's flight. Still, valuable data gathered

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #85 on: 11/02/2016 04:13 AM »
I managed to get a few pictures of the takeoff this morning. It was cold and windy, and the forecast improvement in winds didn't happen, so it isn't surprising they aborted the drop. The weather should be getting better starting tomorrow, so I wouldn't be surprised if they try again this week.
I tried it at home

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #86 on: 11/03/2016 12:55 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 2m2 minutes ago

Hoping to conduct another #SpaceShipTwo test flight today. Tuesday's flight went very well, but high winds prevented gliding VSS Unity

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794175695760986112

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #87 on: 11/03/2016 01:41 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 20m20 minutes ago

Weather looking better today than it did last time around. Currently looking good for flight #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794182450117124096

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #88 on: 11/03/2016 01:53 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 2m2 minutes ago

VSS Unity during pre flight checks. Now taxiing to runway. Will provide real time updates here! #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794189819362426881

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #89 on: 11/03/2016 02:11 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 15m15 minutes ago

Wheels up! WhiteKnightTwo & #SpaceShipTwo are now in the air.  Photos coming soon.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794191399985913856

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #90 on: 11/03/2016 02:37 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 9m9 minutes ago

Today is 3rd ever flight for VSS Unity (216th for WhiteKnightTwo) #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794199129157025793

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #91 on: 11/03/2016 02:37 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 26s26 seconds ago

Mission control reports all is going smoothly. If they elect to go forward with release/glide, that should happen in ~10 mins. #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794201577200308226

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #92 on: 11/03/2016 02:55 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 4m4 minutes ago

We’re excited to glide, but the team wants another look at something, so headed back to land today as mated pair. #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794205125803790336

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #93 on: 11/03/2016 03:18 PM »
Quote
Parabolicarc.com ‏@spacecom 1m1 minute ago Mojave, CA

#SpaceShipTwo and momma bird now back on the ground.

https://twitter.com/spacecom/status/794211778980769792

Edit to add:

Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 34s34 seconds ago

The mated vehicles have landed for the conclusion of today's mission. We'll be back out again soon! #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/794212135177859072
« Last Edit: 11/03/2016 03:19 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #94 on: 11/03/2016 03:25 PM »
This Aviation Week article sounds interesting. Clearly a bit of a PR drive on VGs part.

As it's AV you need a subscription to view. Here's all that's visible on the public page:

Quote
Virgin Galactic’s WhiteKnightTwo Receives Performance Boost
Nov 2, 2016 Guy Norris | Aviation Week & Space Technology

Virgin Galactic test pilots have developed new procedures that significantly improve takeoff and balanced field length performance of the fully laden WhiteKnightTwo (WK2) carrier aircraft. The new capability, which in some cases reduces takeoff distance by 40% or more, will give Virgin greater operational flexibility when launching heavy payloads such as the SpaceShipTwo (SS2) suborbital space vehicle for which the WK2 was originally developed. In particular, performance will be improved ...

http://aviationweek.com/new-space/virgin-galactic-s-whiteknighttwo-receives-performance-boost

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #95 on: 11/03/2016 04:02 PM »
Related to VG since I believe this supplier is the source of their N2O:

http://weartv.com/news/local/osha-investigating-deadly-plant-explosion

In case any of us needed reminding that it’s best to be safe out there around nitrous…



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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #96 on: 11/03/2016 06:56 PM »
This Aviation Week article sounds interesting. Clearly a bit of a PR drive on VGs part.

As it's AV you need a subscription to view. Here's all that's visible on the public page:

Quote
Virgin Galactic’s WhiteKnightTwo Receives Performance Boost
Nov 2, 2016 Guy Norris | Aviation Week & Space Technology

Virgin Galactic test pilots have developed new procedures that significantly improve takeoff and balanced field length performance of the fully laden WhiteKnightTwo (WK2) carrier aircraft. The new capability, which in some cases reduces takeoff distance by 40% or more, will give Virgin greater operational flexibility when launching heavy payloads such as the SpaceShipTwo (SS2) suborbital space vehicle for which the WK2 was originally developed. In particular, performance will be improved ...

http://aviationweek.com/new-space/virgin-galactic-s-whiteknighttwo-receives-performance-boost
One of the main improvements was upgrading to physically stronger pilots.  The limiting factor on takeoff trust was the torque induced if an engine failed.  To counter this you need (strong) rudder input.  By upgrading the pilot to be able to stomp on the pedal with 225 pounds-force (weight of 102 kg person) instead of a mere 150 pounds-force (weight of a 68 kg person), they were able to use a much larger thrust.   This was a surprise to me - I thought these major strength requirements went out about WW-II.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #97 on: 12/01/2016 03:00 PM »
Virgin Galactic completed another captive carry test of SpaceShipTwo yesterday (after they "made a few tweaks to the vehicle"):


https://twitter.com/virgingalactic




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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #98 on: 12/01/2016 04:08 PM »
This Aviation Week article sounds interesting. Clearly a bit of a PR drive on VGs part.

As it's AV you need a subscription to view. Here's all that's visible on the public page:

Quote
Virgin Galactic’s WhiteKnightTwo Receives Performance Boost
Nov 2, 2016 Guy Norris | Aviation Week & Space Technology

Virgin Galactic test pilots have developed new procedures that significantly improve takeoff and balanced field length performance of the fully laden WhiteKnightTwo (WK2) carrier aircraft. The new capability, which in some cases reduces takeoff distance by 40% or more, will give Virgin greater operational flexibility when launching heavy payloads such as the SpaceShipTwo (SS2) suborbital space vehicle for which the WK2 was originally developed. In particular, performance will be improved ...

http://aviationweek.com/new-space/virgin-galactic-s-whiteknighttwo-receives-performance-boost
One of the main improvements was upgrading to physically stronger pilots.  The limiting factor on takeoff trust was the torque induced if an engine failed.  To counter this you need (strong) rudder input.  By upgrading the pilot to be able to stomp on the pedal with 225 pounds-force (weight of 102 kg person) instead of a mere 150 pounds-force (weight of a 68 kg person), they were able to use a much larger thrust.   This was a surprise to me - I thought these major strength requirements went out about WW-II.

This is a hold-over from Burt's design philosophy, which eschews boosted controls and their associated hydraulic system complexity.  Of course, in the past most of his designs have operated at Qs low enough and with rate requirements small enough to let him get away with this.  I do recall him discussing this point with me during the formative years of SSO, and he was proud to have found a low Q trajectory that made it possible to forgo boosted controls on the spaceplane.  It's a bit ironic that White Knight has become the limiting factor.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #99 on: 12/02/2016 02:12 AM »
This Aviation Week article sounds interesting. Clearly a bit of a PR drive on VGs part.

As it's AV you need a subscription to view. Here's all that's visible on the public page:

Quote
Virgin Galactic’s WhiteKnightTwo Receives Performance Boost
Nov 2, 2016 Guy Norris | Aviation Week & Space Technology

Virgin Galactic test pilots have developed new procedures that significantly improve takeoff and balanced field length performance of the fully laden WhiteKnightTwo (WK2) carrier aircraft. The new capability, which in some cases reduces takeoff distance by 40% or more, will give Virgin greater operational flexibility when launching heavy payloads such as the SpaceShipTwo (SS2) suborbital space vehicle for which the WK2 was originally developed. In particular, performance will be improved ...

http://aviationweek.com/new-space/virgin-galactic-s-whiteknighttwo-receives-performance-boost
One of the main improvements was upgrading to physically stronger pilots.  The limiting factor on takeoff trust was the torque induced if an engine failed.  To counter this you need (strong) rudder input.  By upgrading the pilot to be able to stomp on the pedal with 225 pounds-force (weight of 102 kg person) instead of a mere 150 pounds-force (weight of a 68 kg person), they were able to use a much larger thrust.   This was a surprise to me - I thought these major strength requirements went out about WW-II.

I wish. It was one of the main arguments used against hiring women pilots for the airlines in the 1970s until they proved they had the leg strength to be able to do a V1 cut. When I had my knee opened up in 2005 one of the major limitations on my recovery was being able to put in and hold rudder against a failed engine until we were at an altitude where I could engage the autopilot, at which point some IPs would then fail the autopilot and make me fly the entire maneuver up to landing and rollout manually, which could happen in real life and was a fair test.

Interestingly, the new FBW airplanes I've flown (777-200, 787-8/9) have a system that puts in 85% of the rudder needed to counter the yaw as a result of an engine failure, instead of a huge leg motion like in a 73, a V1 cut in a 77/78 barely requires an ankle flex to keep the aircraft going straight down the runway. The system IS capable of adding all the rudder needed, but pilots were getting confused about which engine had failed (or did not even realize one had!) so I'm told Boeing derated the system by 15% to give the necessary feedback to the pilot.

At least in the sim. *knocks wood* So far I've never had a complete engine failure in real life.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2016 02:26 AM by JAFO »
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #100 on: 12/03/2016 02:57 PM »
Quote
Takeoff--WhiteKnightTwo & #SpaceShipTwo are now in the air for another test.  Today is 5th flight for VSS Unity, 218th for WhiteKnightTwo.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805061486192140289

Quote
Release! VSS Unity has cleanly detached from WhiteKnightTwo, and is flying freely for the first time ever! #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805074110820728832

Quote
VSS Unity has landed. Vehicle and crew are back safe and sound after a successful first glide test flight. #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805076702003011585

Quote
This was the 1st ever free flight of our new spaceship—the 1st ship built by our in-house manufacturing team @TheSpaceshipCo #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805077490477604864

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #101 on: 12/03/2016 03:19 PM »
Quote
Pilots for today’s flight: in #SpaceShipTwo: Stucky and Mackay. In WhiteKnightTwo: Masucci and Ericson, plus flight test engineer Mosher.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805081639021776896

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #102 on: 12/03/2016 03:22 PM »
Post landing photo from Doug Messier:

https://twitter.com/spacecom/status/805080460548157442

Update: Doug now has a blog post with a number of photos from today's glide test http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/12/03/photos-spaceshiptwo-glide-flight/
« Last Edit: 12/03/2016 07:56 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #103 on: 12/03/2016 05:11 PM »
Quote
VSS Unity glides for the first time, after being released from WhiteKnightTwo (VMS Eve). Taken today. #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805102251035357184

Offline jgoldader

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #104 on: 12/03/2016 05:51 PM »
Excellent!
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #105 on: 12/03/2016 11:31 PM »
VG have now tweeted a short video and another glide photo.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/805199650584072193
« Last Edit: 12/03/2016 11:35 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #106 on: 12/04/2016 12:46 AM »
Speaking only for myself there's something about the appearance of this flight article that signals how very safe the experience of riding aboard it will be. I think it is probably the updated paint scheme.

I would put a smiley face here, but I'm actually being serious: the aircraft just looks aerodynamically sound.
« Last Edit: 12/04/2016 12:46 AM by sdsds »
-- sdsds --

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #107 on: 12/04/2016 08:17 AM »
VSS Unity First Glide Flight Test

SciNews

Published on Dec 4, 2016
VSS Unity, Virgin Galactic’s second SpaceShipTwo, successfully completed its first glide flight test on 3 December 2016. The flight test lasted 1 hour 20 minute, with VSS Unity in free flight for 10 minutes and achieving a maximum speed of approximately Mach 0.6 while gliding from an altitude of 15 kilometers. Both VSS Unity and the WhiteKnightTwo mothership (VMS Eve) returned safely to ground.

Credit:
Virgin Galactic

(CATDLR: same footage from the tweet posted above)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMORvjo-n1I?t=001

« Last Edit: 12/04/2016 08:18 AM by catdlr »
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #108 on: 12/04/2016 10:44 PM »
Speaking only for myself there's something about the appearance of this flight article that signals how very safe the experience of riding aboard it will be. I think it is probably the updated paint scheme.

I would put a smiley face here, but I'm actually being serious: the aircraft just looks aerodynamically sound.
I still see it as fragile.

The proximity of the engine nozzle to all those aerodynamic control surfaces, the fact that it's hinged, etc. 

I agree the paint job looks better though.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #109 on: 12/04/2016 10:54 PM »
Speaking only for myself there's something about the appearance of this flight article that signals how very safe the experience of riding aboard it will be. I think it is probably the updated paint scheme.

I would put a smiley face here, but I'm actually being serious: the aircraft just looks aerodynamically sound.
I still see it as fragile.

I entirely agree.  When I look at that thing, I see the load path from the horizontal stabilizers to the fuselage, which is torturous to say the least.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #110 on: 12/04/2016 11:20 PM »
Everything else aside, she does look pretty in flight...
“The laws of physics are unforgiving”...
Rob

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #111 on: 12/05/2016 12:23 AM »
Speaking only for myself there's something about the appearance of this flight article that signals how very safe the experience of riding aboard it will be. I think it is probably the updated paint scheme.

I would put a smiley face here, but I'm actually being serious: the aircraft just looks aerodynamically sound.
I still see it as fragile.

I entirely agree.  When I look at that thing, I see the load path from the horizontal stabilizers to the fuselage, which is torturous to say the least.
Which kind of adds up, since even minor damage to the aerodynamics on the way up (and it's just CF) will be an issue on reentry and the flight down.  And there's no "inspection in orbit" possible or any of that...
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #112 on: 12/05/2016 06:29 PM »
Here's a new video from VG about the glide flight, focussing on pilot Mark Stucky.

« Last Edit: 12/05/2016 06:30 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #113 on: 12/05/2016 10:31 PM »
Speaking only for myself there's something about the appearance of this flight article that signals how very safe the experience of riding aboard it will be. I think it is probably the updated paint scheme.

I would put a smiley face here, but I'm actually being serious: the aircraft just looks aerodynamically sound.
I still see it as fragile.

I entirely agree.  When I look at that thing, I see the load path from the horizontal stabilizers to the fuselage, which is torturous to say the least.

Keep in mind that entire center wing section is a big carbon wing box, very strong structure.  Not like a typical aircraft wing which has high bending loads and is designed to flex. I bet the angular deflection in their tail control surfaces is very low, even during max aerodynamic loading. As for hinges on wings, look at every Navy aircraft.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #114 on: 12/06/2016 04:51 AM »
As for hinges on wings, look at every Navy aircraft.

Don't the SS2 wings pivot around a single pivot-point rather than fold along a hinge line?
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #115 on: 12/06/2016 06:26 AM »
As for hinges on wings, look at every Navy aircraft.

Don't the SS2 wings pivot around a single pivot-point rather than fold along a hinge line?
It's probably a line, but even in navy planes, folding wings are a necessary evil, added complexity and a failure mode, not a zero impact feature...

Here, consider again a hard start or a burp of the engine - right near all those CF surfaces.  How well can that ship reenter and glide with damaged surfaces?  Remember the locking mechanism?  How well can it work if the area near the hinge is damaged?

And this is a brand new engine on each flight, and fired only after release.

It's not a good design concept for a manned system.
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Offline PhotoEngineer

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #116 on: 12/06/2016 08:46 PM »
As for hinges on wings, look at every Navy aircraft.

Don't the SS2 wings pivot around a single pivot-point rather than fold along a hinge line?

It's a hinge along the back of the wing.

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/virgin-galactic-4.jpg

And meekGee I'll agree that if given a clean sheet, I would have designed a different propulsion system.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2016 08:46 PM by PhotoEngineer »

Offline Vultur

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #117 on: 12/10/2016 01:49 AM »
Which kind of adds up, since even minor damage to the aerodynamics on the way up (and it's just CF) will be an issue on reentry and the flight down.  And there's no "inspection in orbit" possible or any of that...

OTOH, while there's no inspection in orbit, the heat loads are far, far less than a reentry from orbit.
The maximum speed of SpaceShipOne was about Mach 3, closer to fast jets than orbital spacecraft.

And this is a brand new engine on each flight, and fired only after release.

The entire engine is replaced, not just the fuel grain?

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #118 on: 12/10/2016 01:57 AM »
Which kind of adds up, since even minor damage to the aerodynamics on the way up (and it's just CF) will be an issue on reentry and the flight down.  And there's no "inspection in orbit" possible or any of that...

OTOH, while there's no inspection in orbit, the heat loads are far, far less than a reentry from orbit.
The maximum speed of SpaceShipOne was about Mach 3, closer to fast jets than orbital spacecraft.

And this is a brand new engine on each flight, and fired only after release.

The entire engine is replaced, not just the fuel grain?
Of course, but damage from propulsion on ascent is independent of heat loads during reentry.  The point is, if it occurs, you're along for the ride with no ability to inspect or react.  If the vehicle is asymmetrical, I don't know how "care free" reentry will be.

I don't know how much if the engine they replace, but fuel and nozzle, I'm pretty sure.

The whole system is just so much more suitable to an expendable unmanned system than it is to a reusable manned system.  (Not saying it will hold its own against ground-launch system, but that's a separate issue)
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #119 on: 12/10/2016 02:13 AM »
Of course, but damage from propulsion on ascent is independent of heat loads during reentry.

Oh, sure, I was thinking that the vehicle might be a lot more tolerant of small damage (like Columbia's tile damage) because there isn't the ultra-hot orbital reentry plasma hitting it.

But why would the propulsion break the vehicle's surfaces? Excessive vibration like the previous SS2 had at lower speeds? I guess I was thinking more of 'bird strike' type issues that might damage the vehicle.

Quote
I don't know how much if the engine they replace, but fuel and nozzle, I'm pretty sure.

I'm surprised the nozzle gets replaced... didn't even the Shuttle solids reuse that? Is it an ablatively cooled nozzle or something?

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #120 on: 12/10/2016 02:57 AM »
Of course, but damage from propulsion on ascent is independent of heat loads during reentry.

Oh, sure, I was thinking that the vehicle might be a lot more tolerant of small damage (like Columbia's tile damage) because there isn't the ultra-hot orbital reentry plasma hitting it.

But why would the propulsion break the vehicle's surfaces? Excessive vibration like the previous SS2 had at lower speeds? I guess I was thinking more of 'bird strike' type issues that might damage the vehicle.

Quote
I don't know how much if the engine they replace, but fuel and nozzle, I'm pretty sure.

I'm surprised the nozzle gets replaced... didn't even the Shuttle solids reuse that? Is it an ablatively cooled nozzle or something?
The SRB nozzle is refurbished, HOWEVER the SRB nozzle extensions were severed by a charge and jettisoned. (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/technology/sts-newsref/srb.html)

Quote
The nozzle extension is severed by pyrotechnic charge either at apogee or 20 seconds after low baroswitch operation.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #121 on: 12/10/2016 03:21 AM »
Of course, but damage from propulsion on ascent is independent of heat loads during reentry.

Oh, sure, I was thinking that the vehicle might be a lot more tolerant of small damage (like Columbia's tile damage) because there isn't the ultra-hot orbital reentry plasma hitting it.

But why would the propulsion break the vehicle's surfaces? Excessive vibration like the previous SS2 had at lower speeds? I guess I was thinking more of 'bird strike' type issues that might damage the vehicle.

Quote
I don't know how much if the engine they replace, but fuel and nozzle, I'm pretty sure.

I'm surprised the nozzle gets replaced... didn't even the Shuttle solids reuse that? Is it an ablatively cooled nozzle or something?
What I keep thinking about is a chunk of solid fuel getting spit out, or the nozzle failing.

Everything else, they can shut down the Oxidizer when they detect an anomaly - if they are set up for that.
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #122 on: 12/10/2016 03:27 AM »
Is it an ablatively cooled nozzle or something?
I don't know the details on SS2's engine, but as I understand it, the fuel grain is bonded into a carbon fiber case with an ablative throat and nozzle. I don't know if the injector is part of that assembly or part of the tank, but it is still a large section of the engine that is replaced every flight.

Quote
But why would the propulsion break the vehicle's surfaces?
Because the entire fuel grain is pressurized, a rupture caused by a hard start or piece of fuel breaking off and blocking the nozzle would much more energetic than in other engines.
I tried it at home

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #123 on: 12/13/2016 03:16 AM »
What I keep thinking about is a chunk of solid fuel getting spit out, or the nozzle failing.

Everything else, they can shut down the Oxidizer when they detect an anomaly - if they are set up for that.

Maybe this is just my ignorance of hybrid engines, but I don't understand why a chunk of fuel getting spit out would be so destructive. Wouldn't it just fly out in the direction of the exhaust gases and thus not hit the vehicle? Is it that the unbalanced thrust from *lacking* a chunk of the fuel would throw the vehicle out of control?

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #124 on: 12/13/2016 04:12 AM »
Maybe this is just my ignorance of hybrid engines, but I don't understand why a chunk of fuel getting spit out would be so destructive.
Spit fuel has a tendency to block the nozzle and cause fluctuations in chamber pressure.  If the pressure transients are high enough they can rupture the case.  That said, typical hybrids I'm familar with are running at fairly low chamber pressures relative to solids and the grains are usually more physically robust and without complex geometries.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #125 on: 12/22/2016 08:21 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic  7m7 minutes ago
Good afternoon, Mojave. Looking good for a #SpaceShipTwo flight test. Stay tuned for more updates.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #126 on: 12/22/2016 11:51 PM »
Quote
Take-off. Today is 6th flight for VSS Unity #SpaceShipTwo, 221st for #WhiteKnightTwo
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/812045483359158272

Quote
Release release release: VSS Unity and WhiteKnightTwo are flying on their own. 2nd glide flight for #SpaceShipTwo
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/812055108527656960

Quote
Smooth landing for VSS Unity. In #SpaceShipTwo: pilots Mackay and Stucky.
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/812058543377391616

Quote
#WhiteKnightTwo has landed: pilots Sturkow and Pecile, flight test engr Mosher. Next up: data review and holidays.
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/812068317078822913

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #127 on: 12/23/2016 06:05 AM »
Quote
Second glide flight of VSS Unity completed. Well done to the pilots and the whole crew. Great way to end the year!

https://twitter.com/gtwhitesides/status/812108292440788992

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #128 on: 12/23/2016 06:13 AM »
Alan Boyle's write-up of the second glide flight: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/virgin-galactic-second-spaceshiptwo-glide/

He suggests powered flight tests could begin in mid-2017 with commercial operations possible by the end of next year if tests go well. Personally I can believe the former but the latter seems a little aggressive to me.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #129 on: 12/23/2016 09:28 AM »
Alan Boyle's write-up of the second glide flight: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/virgin-galactic-second-spaceshiptwo-glide/

He suggests powered flight tests could begin in mid-2017 with commercial operations possible by the end of next year if tests go well. Personally I can believe the former but the latter seems a little aggressive to me.

The speculation on the beginning of paying commercial flights seems wildly over optimistic to me. I am not even hundred percent sure that we will see them before the turn of the decade.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #130 on: 12/23/2016 10:00 AM »
The speculation on the beginning of paying commercial flights seems wildly over optimistic to me. I am not even hundred percent sure that we will see them before the turn of the decade.

I think it'll be by the end of 2018 or not at all. I don't see the programme surviving another significant failure (even if there are no injuries). 2 years from now should be enough time to establish whether or not the current design & vehicles are fit for operations. Blue Origin may take a lot of VG's customers as it is.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #131 on: 12/23/2016 12:24 PM »
The speculation on the beginning of paying commercial flights seems wildly over optimistic to me. I am not even hundred percent sure that we will see them before the turn of the decade.

I think it'll be by the end of 2018 or not at all. I don't see the programme surviving another significant failure (even if there are no injuries). 2 years from now should be enough time to establish whether or not the current design & vehicles are fit for operations. Blue Origin may take a lot of VG's customers as it is.

Good points. TBH I've felt that since BO have made good strides this year that VG have been on borrowed time.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #132 on: 12/23/2016 07:22 PM »
VG have tweeted some brief video of yesterday's glide flight:

Quote
VSS Unity's second glide flight test occurred yesterday. Here she is gliding home. Thanks to our pilots & crew & you all for cheering us on.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/812376912022618112

Offline Lewis007

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #133 on: 12/24/2016 11:21 AM »
Some additional pics of the second glide flight have been posted on VG's Facebook page, plus one of "Santa's new sled", named "VSS Rudolph."   ;D

I checked the Facebook page to find the clip mentioned above. It won't play for me in Firefox (some FF problem with videos). I used Chrome, and could watch the video, but not download it. The clip is not on VG's Facebook page, so I guess I have to wait until somebody puts it on YouTube...   :(

Offline yg1968

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #134 on: 12/28/2016 03:19 PM »
This presentation was posted a couple of weeks ago:


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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #135 on: 02/07/2017 07:46 PM »
Quote
Whitesides: SS2 glide flights to continue for next few months, then powered flights; aspire to “push far into test program” in ’17 #CST2017

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/829067996647690241

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #136 on: 02/13/2017 08:54 AM »
Richard Branson is still saying 2014 SS2 accident was due to pilot error:

Quote
“But, once we realized it was a pilot error and not a technical error, I was able to tell all the engineers it was nothing to do with them. And that the basic craft was sound.”

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2017/02/13/branson-doesnt-understand-spaceshiptwo-crashed/

Fortunately, as the article notes, design changes have been made so that a single pilot mistake won't have fatal consequences and pilot error is never the root cause: https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/pilot-error-is-never-root-cause/

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #137 on: 02/13/2017 12:58 PM »
Richard Branson is still saying 2014 SS2 accident was due to pilot error:

Quote
“But, once we realized it was a pilot error and not a technical error, I was able to tell all the engineers it was nothing to do with them. And that the basic craft was sound.”

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2017/02/13/branson-doesnt-understand-spaceshiptwo-crashed/

Fortunately, as the article notes, design changes have been made so that a single pilot mistake won't have fatal consequences and pilot error is never the root cause: https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/pilot-error-is-never-root-cause/
Never is a strong word, but in this case it certainly wasn't.

The test is "will a different competent pilot be like likely to make the same mistake?"

Here, it was a classic accident waiting to happen - a design problem.
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #138 on: 02/24/2017 03:19 PM »
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835160051669086208
Quote
We're gearing up for a #SpaceShipTwo flight test.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #139 on: 02/24/2017 04:05 PM »
Quote
Virgin Galactic ‏@virgingalactic 3m3 minutes ago

Flight test prep proceeding well, and #SpaceShipTwo and WhiteKnightTwo are headed out to the end of runway

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835173084797652993
« Last Edit: 02/24/2017 04:07 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #140 on: 02/24/2017 04:31 PM »
Quote
Take off! Today is 7th flight for VSS Unity #SpaceShipTwo, 226th for VMS Eve #WhiteKnightTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835176665646931969

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #141 on: 02/24/2017 05:44 PM »
Quote
VSS Unity has just been released from WhiteKnightTwo to glide home. 3rd glide flight test for #SpaceShipTwo

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835190396649013249

Quote
Smooth landing for VSS Unity. In #SpaceShipTwo: pilots Dave Mackay and CJ Sturckow.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835192710545866752

Edit to add:

Quote
#WhiteKnightTwo has landed, completing today’s test. Crew today were pilots Todd Ericson & Kelly Latimer, flight test engr Dustin Mosher.

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/835199087125225472
« Last Edit: 02/24/2017 06:02 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #142 on: 02/24/2017 05:58 PM »
Quote
Just watched @virgingalactic Spaceship 2 land after test flight -beautiful aircraft :-)

https://twitter.com/profbriancox/status/835193931591782400

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #143 on: 02/25/2017 04:49 AM »
Quote
Spaceship over the Sierras today on the way to glide flight. Pilots successfully flew higher airspeed test points. Photo: Todd Ericson.

https://twitter.com/gtwhitesides/status/835276494398087168

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #144 on: 02/25/2017 06:25 PM »
space.com write-up of yesterday's glide test:

Quote
Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo Aces 3rd Glide Test Flight http://dlvr.it/NTMzxh

https://twitter.com/spacedotcom/status/835567450217304064

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #145 on: 03/02/2017 02:37 AM »
VSS Unity Glide Flight 03 | 24 February 2017

Virgin Galactic

Published on Mar 1, 2017
Richard Branson stops by Mojave, CA with his friend Professor Brian Cox to witness VSS Unity Glide Flight 03 test flight, and share his thoughts about progress and innovation in our mission to open space access.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmYn1QtSA3U?t=001

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #146 on: 03/02/2017 02:40 AM »
Hey, Richard: let Brian Cox fly on one of the first sub-orbital flights for one of his next BBC documentary series - it would educate people and give you excellent publicity in the same breath!
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #147 on: 03/02/2017 10:52 AM »
Quote
Just watched @virgingalactic Spaceship 2 land after test flight -beautiful aircraft :-)

https://twitter.com/profbriancox/status/835193931591782400
Indeed, beautiful aircraft. When it's the launching date?

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #148 on: 03/02/2017 12:42 PM »
Not soon enough! :) :(
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #149 on: 03/02/2017 03:46 PM »
Indeed, beautiful aircraft. When it's the launching date?

Welcome to the forum!

This post from a few months ago outlines the various test stages (but not dates) the programme has to go through.

VG appear to be hoping/expecting to get to powered flights later this year (I'm guessing summer at the earliest). So next year is the soonest paying passengers will be flying. If the flight tests are successful then (for now :) ) I stick with my earlier prediction (up thread) of being operational by the end of next year.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2017 03:50 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #150 on: 03/20/2017 09:04 PM »
Virgin Galactic VSS Unity First Glide (2016)

AIRBOYD

Published on Mar 20, 2017
Video Credit: ©Virgin Galactic http://www.virgingalactic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppr6X05kBnA?t=001

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #151 on: 03/21/2017 12:21 AM »
Virgin Galactic VSS Unity First Glide (2016)

AIRBOYD

Published on Mar 20, 2017
Video Credit: ©Virgin Galactic http://www.virgingalactic.com

Something I hadn't noticed before:  I thought it was a yoke for a sec, but it seems the 'standard stick' used for SS1 has become an interesting-looking 'two-handed stick'.   I guess they're expecting pretty high aero loads?!?

Must be a real beast of a thing to fly.
« Last Edit: 03/21/2017 01:17 AM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #152 on: 03/21/2017 01:16 AM »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #153 on: 03/21/2017 06:13 AM »
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/

The original offer was a decade ago (here's a BBC article from 2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6594821.stm). What's interesting is that he's still thinks he's well enough to go, presumanly in the next year or two.

Offline Sam Ho

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #154 on: 03/21/2017 04:27 PM »
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/

The original offer was a decade ago (here's a BBC article from 2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6594821.stm). What's interesting is that he's still thinks he's well enough to go, presumanly in the next year or two.
The interview, on Good Morning Britain, is here on YouTube.  The comment about Virgin Galactic is at 9:08.   There's also a comment about TRAPPIST-1 at 7:57.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_FDFY-SJ-4?t=9m8s

Offline Comga

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #155 on: 03/21/2017 08:17 PM »
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/

The original offer was a decade ago (here's a BBC article from 2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6594821.stm). What's interesting is that he's still thinks he's well enough to go, presumanly in the next year or two.

The real point is that after 14 years of working on Virgin Galactic flights, and a decade after offering Hawking a ride, somehow this is the big news from VG.  Still months away from the Von Karman line, as they have been for a very long time.  Still no schedule for passenger flights.  Still fiddling with that hybrid engine. 

When VG started, Falcon 1 was a preproduction model on a truck.  Now it's a close race as to who gets people to space first: VG at a dead stop or SpaceX at 7 km/sec.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Star One

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #156 on: 03/21/2017 10:23 PM »
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/
In other news, it seems Richard Branson has offered Stephen Hawking a ride..:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3129334/stephen-hawking-planning-trip-to-space-after-being-offered-a-seat-on-virgin-galactic-flight/

The original offer was a decade ago (here's a BBC article from 2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6594821.stm). What's interesting is that he's still thinks he's well enough to go, presumanly in the next year or two.

The real point is that after 14 years of working on Virgin Galactic flights, and a decade after offering Hawking a ride, somehow this is the big news from VG.  Still months away from the Von Karman line, as they have been for a very long time.  Still no schedule for passenger flights.  Still fiddling with that hybrid engine. 

When VG started, Falcon 1 was a preproduction model on a truck.  Now it's a close race as to who gets people to space first: VG at a dead stop or SpaceX at 7 km/sec.

Why on earth are you comparing it to Space X, surely a more useful and far more accurate comparison is with Blue Origin and their current activities.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #157 on: 03/22/2017 03:30 AM »
Why on earth are you comparing it to Space X, surely a more useful and far more accurate comparison is with Blue Origin and their current activities.

I thought that was obvious... Getting people to orbit is absurdly harder than getting them to 100 km, and yet SpaceX may beat VG in doing just that. That's nuts, especially when you consider that VG started with a system that had already gotten a pilot to their goal.

When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #158 on: 03/22/2017 07:24 AM »
Why on earth are you comparing it to Space X, surely a more useful and far more accurate comparison is with Blue Origin and their current activities.

I thought that was obvious... Getting people to orbit is absurdly harder than getting them to 100 km, and yet SpaceX may beat VG in doing just that. That's nuts, especially when you consider that VG started with a system that had already gotten a pilot to their goal.
Yes, the ironing is thick.

All the marketing in the world can't undo bad design choices.

They unveil, and announce, and partner, and are opening up this and that, and have an official vodka, and hotel chain, and have built a Spaceport, and have already redefined (twice) what space access even means...

Only one little thing is missing.

So in a way, they're 99% there...

---

This is not persevering in the face of hardship.  I'm a fan of that. If you fail, try try again.

Never give up, never surrender.

But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event, and continues in the company's attitude towards the world through today. (Long after he's gone from its reincarnation)

It paints the entire industry in an unflattering color.

---

Woah.  That escalated quickly.  Time for bed...
« Last Edit: 03/22/2017 07:26 AM by meekGee »
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Offline Star One

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Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #159 on: 03/22/2017 08:14 AM »
Why on earth are you comparing it to Space X, surely a more useful and far more accurate comparison is with Blue Origin and their current activities.

I thought that was obvious... Getting people to orbit is absurdly harder than getting them to 100 km, and yet SpaceX may beat VG in doing just that. That's nuts, especially when you consider that VG started with a system that had already gotten a pilot to their goal.
Yes, the ironing is thick.

All the marketing in the world can't undo bad design choices.

They unveil, and announce, and partner, and are opening up this and that, and have an official vodka, and hotel chain, and have built a Spaceport, and have already redefined (twice) what space access even means...

Only one little thing is missing.

So in a way, they're 99% there...

---

This is not persevering in the face of hardship.  I'm a fan of that. If you fail, try try again.

Never give up, never surrender.

But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event, and continues in the company's attitude towards the world through today. (Long after he's gone from its reincarnation)

It paints the entire industry in an unflattering color.

---

Woah.  That escalated quickly.  Time for bed...

Your point might have been better made had it not swiftly descended into some kind of personal rant against VG.
« Last Edit: 03/22/2017 08:15 AM by Star One »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #160 on: 03/22/2017 04:06 PM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?
"Sooner or later, we must expand life beyond our little blue mud ball--or go extinct" Elon Musk

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #161 on: 03/22/2017 04:19 PM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?

It's just an anecdote, but IMO it spoke volumes.  I am not affiliated with XCOR, but was there when Greason was explaining to the media about his approach and plans.  (This is many years ago, some time after SS1's flight).

In walks Rutan with a black leather jacket and all the "flyboy" attitude, and honest to goodness, the media folks just turned around, Greason had to stop, and Rutan went on a rant on how his approach is so much better.  It was embarrassing.  He had no business walking in, and even if he did, he should have told them they can talk to him later, since the CEO of the company he's just walked into is in mid-sentence.

Between this attitude, and Branson's, I personally (as the previous poster noted) lost all appetite for them, but I think that a lot of what they ran into was rooted at this sort of arrogance, so it's not just a "personal peeve". It affects decision making, lesson learning, etc.
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #162 on: 03/22/2017 06:51 PM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?

It's just an anecdote, but IMO it spoke volumes.  I am not affiliated with XCOR, but was there when Greason was explaining to the media about his approach and plans.  (This is many years ago, some time after SS1's flight).

In walks Rutan with a black leather jacket and all the "flyboy" attitude, and honest to goodness, the media folks just turned around, Greason had to stop, and Rutan went on a rant on how his approach is so much better.  It was embarrassing.  He had no business walking in, and even if he did, he should have told them they can talk to him later, since the CEO of the company he's just walked into is in mid-sentence.

Between this attitude, and Branson's, I personally (as the previous poster noted) lost all appetite for them, but I think that a lot of what they ran into was rooted at this sort of arrogance, so it's not just a "personal peeve". It affects decision making, lesson learning, etc.

Entrepreneurs found to be arrogant on occasions, what a shocking revelation. Surely such an attitude can often come as part and parcel of such characters.

Maybe I could be perceived as too defensive on this, but then perhaps that's just a initial reaction to seeing a British company be bad mouthed.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #163 on: 03/22/2017 07:28 PM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?

It's just an anecdote, but IMO it spoke volumes.  I am not affiliated with XCOR, but was there when Greason was explaining to the media about his approach and plans.  (This is many years ago, some time after SS1's flight).

In walks Rutan with a black leather jacket and all the "flyboy" attitude, and honest to goodness, the media folks just turned around, Greason had to stop, and Rutan went on a rant on how his approach is so much better.  It was embarrassing.  He had no business walking in, and even if he did, he should have told them they can talk to him later, since the CEO of the company he's just walked into is in mid-sentence.

Between this attitude, and Branson's, I personally (as the previous poster noted) lost all appetite for them, but I think that a lot of what they ran into was rooted at this sort of arrogance, so it's not just a "personal peeve". It affects decision making, lesson learning, etc.

Entrepreneurs found to be arrogant on occasions, what a shocking revelation. Surely such an attitude can often come as part and parcel of such characters.

Maybe I could be perceived as too defensive on this, but then perhaps that's just a initial reaction to seeing a British company be bad mouthed.
When I think British, I think "understated", self depracating humor, and bad teeth.  :)

The accent is sported by many who who are not worthy...
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #164 on: 03/22/2017 08:06 PM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?

It's just an anecdote, but IMO it spoke volumes.  I am not affiliated with XCOR, but was there when Greason was explaining to the media about his approach and plans.  (This is many years ago, some time after SS1's flight).

In walks Rutan with a black leather jacket and all the "flyboy" attitude, and honest to goodness, the media folks just turned around, Greason had to stop, and Rutan went on a rant on how his approach is so much better.  It was embarrassing.  He had no business walking in, and even if he did, he should have told them they can talk to him later, since the CEO of the company he's just walked into is in mid-sentence.

Between this attitude, and Branson's, I personally (as the previous poster noted) lost all appetite for them, but I think that a lot of what they ran into was rooted at this sort of arrogance, so it's not just a "personal peeve". It affects decision making, lesson learning, etc.

Entrepreneurs found to be arrogant on occasions, what a shocking revelation. Surely such an attitude can often come as part and parcel of such characters.

Maybe I could be perceived as too defensive on this, but then perhaps that's just a initial reaction to seeing a British company be bad mouthed.
When I think British, I think "understated", self depracating humor, and bad teeth.  :)

The accent is sported by many who who are not worthy...

So a stereotype then?

Offline meekGee

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #165 on: 03/23/2017 01:16 AM »
But there's something unique about the arrogance that this one particular company is radiating that's been pissing me off ever since I saw Burt Rutan dump all over Jeff Greason in Jeff's own hangar in the middle of an XCOR press event.

I've never heard about this...could you elaborate?

It's just an anecdote, but IMO it spoke volumes.  I am not affiliated with XCOR, but was there when Greason was explaining to the media about his approach and plans.  (This is many years ago, some time after SS1's flight).

In walks Rutan with a black leather jacket and all the "flyboy" attitude, and honest to goodness, the media folks just turned around, Greason had to stop, and Rutan went on a rant on how his approach is so much better.  It was embarrassing.  He had no business walking in, and even if he did, he should have told them they can talk to him later, since the CEO of the company he's just walked into is in mid-sentence.

Between this attitude, and Branson's, I personally (as the previous poster noted) lost all appetite for them, but I think that a lot of what they ran into was rooted at this sort of arrogance, so it's not just a "personal peeve". It affects decision making, lesson learning, etc.

Entrepreneurs found to be arrogant on occasions, what a shocking revelation. Surely such an attitude can often come as part and parcel of such characters.

Maybe I could be perceived as too defensive on this, but then perhaps that's just a initial reaction to seeing a British company be bad mouthed.
When I think British, I think "understated", self deprecating humor, and bad teeth.  :)

The accent is sported by many who who are not worthy...

So a stereotype then?

Most certainly!

---

Otherwise, on a good day I get two out of three, but my accent is decidedly not British.
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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #166 on: 04/02/2017 08:25 AM »
George Whitesides was interviewed on TMRO yesterday. Interview starts at about 20:50 into the show:


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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #167 on: 04/02/2017 08:49 AM »
A few SS2 notes from the George Whitesides interview:

- Each SS2 is intended to last for about 10 years of operation, so hundreds of cycles
- Said all SS2 customers will get to space but he referenced the 50 miles threshold and not the 100 km in the question
- Talked about over 600 people who have paid some money [so at least a deposit?] to go on SS2. IIRC in the past - a few years ago - VG talked about nearly 700?
- On flight days expect to fly (early?) in the morning
- Vehicles designed to fly as often as every day. Aiming for once a week with initial commercial operation

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #168 on: 04/02/2017 05:09 PM »
Do they have any more SS2 in production?.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #169 on: 04/03/2017 02:53 AM »
 :'(
When someone is wishing for a pony, there's little to be gained by suggesting a unicorn would be ever better.. ya know, unless it's sarcasm.

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #170 on: 04/03/2017 02:45 PM »
Richard Branson says VG don't give dates any more and then effectively gives (a broad) one ...

Quote
“The test programme is going really well, and as long as we’ve got our brave test pilots pushing it to the limit we think that after whatever it is, 12 years of hard work, we’re nearly there.”
When exactly will he be nearly there? After all, Branson himself – and some of his family – have committed to being on the first flight.
“Well we stopped giving dates,” he confesses. “But I think I’d be very disappointed if we’re not into space with a test flight by the end of the year and I’m not into space myself next year and the progamme isn’t well underway by the end of next year.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/02/sir-richard-branson-vows-have-virgin-galactic-passengers-space/
« Last Edit: 04/03/2017 02:46 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #171 on: 04/14/2017 05:11 PM »
Quote
Exclusive: Virgin Galactic Preps For Space Travel Technical Support

Virgin Galatic’s technical operations director reveals how the company is preparing the supply chain and aftermarket support functions for commercial space travel.

Paul Seidenman | Apr 13, 2017

http://www.mro-network.com/maintenance-repair-overhaul/exclusive-virgin-galactic-preps-space-travel-technical-support
« Last Edit: 04/14/2017 05:14 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #172 on: 04/14/2017 07:52 PM »
Seems VG have a bit of a PR blitz on. Interview with Beth Moses about passenger training:

Quote
As chief astronaut instructor for Virgin Galactic, the former NASA aerospace engineer is in charge of training private future astronauts for their journey to space on board Virgin’s SpaceshipTwo

http://krqe.com/2017/04/13/space-tourists-to-train-in-new-mexico/

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #173 on: 04/27/2017 06:37 PM »
Quote
(1/3) One key part of building the world's first commercial spaceline? Having a superstar maintenance team.
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/857663140879847424

Quote
(2/3) Kudos to our space wrenches, who earned us FAA Diamond Award of Excellence--something no commercial space company had ever received
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/857663388918448129

Quote
(3/3) Special kudos to Tommy L & Javier G for earning individual Gold Awards--the only 2 in the entire Van Nuys FSDO Service Area to do so!
https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/857663642044682241

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #174 on: 04/27/2017 09:42 PM »
Well, the VSS Unity doesn't seem to be ready to fly in a short period of time. Main gear is missing, the aircraft nosecone... I wonder if they are already taking steps to powered flights?

After all, they only did 3 free fly attempts, and only one in the last 4 months, which seems a short amount of data to me, yet there should be a reason for this type of delay between trials.

Offline Star One

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Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #175 on: 04/28/2017 09:20 PM »
New Branson interview in which he says a whole lot of nothing.

Branson noncommittal about SpaceShipTwo flight schedule - See more at: http://spacenews.com/branson-noncommittal-about-spaceshiptwo-flight-schedule/#sthash.xrrIH3yi.dpuf
« Last Edit: 04/28/2017 09:22 PM by Star One »

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