Author Topic: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities  (Read 165739 times)

Online MarekCyzio

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #420 on: 02/28/2017 02:39 PM »

I do not believe there is any "Concrete" poured at all. The landing area and outer ring are crushed recycled concrete aka AgSlag . Ground AgSlag is dumped,spread ,packed, vibrated, Watered and Rolled. The inner pad area that looks like brushed concrete pavement is just the AgSlag that has been scarified (ground flat and smooth) and re-watered. Much like grooming of snow done on ski slopes. This is much easier to repair and maintain between landings as all you need to do is grind the area flat and add a little more agSlag water and Roll/smooth. Forms it's own caliche...like desert pavement The outer Ring is just left un-groomed.   and no Gravel...Gravel + M1-D Rocket engine = 360 degree shotgun blast of rocks

I've been to LZ-1 and I can assure you center circle is poured concrete. Moreover it has dilatation gaps sealed with some kind of elastomer.

Offline rpapo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #421 on: 02/28/2017 04:16 PM »
I've been to LZ-1 and I can assure you center circle is poured concrete. Moreover it has dilatation gaps sealed with some kind of elastomer.
Note from the picture above that we are not the only people who have debated or been confused by the "Landing Complex" / "Landing Zone" naming debate.  Notice the label on the surveyor's benchmark: LC-1.  Dated 2015, so things changed afterward, probably to avoid confusion with "Launch Complex".
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Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #422 on: 02/28/2017 05:52 PM »
I've been to LZ-1 and I can assure you center circle is poured concrete. Moreover it has dilatation gaps sealed with some kind of elastomer.
Note from the picture above that we are not the only people who have debated or been confused by the "Landing Complex" / "Landing Zone" naming debate.  Notice the label on the surveyor's benchmark: LC-1.  Dated 2015, so things changed afterward, probably to avoid confusion with "Launch Complex".

Clearly the surveyor is not on this forum!
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #423 on: 04/26/2017 02:19 PM »
New Google Earth images from this March:
« Last Edit: 04/26/2017 02:19 PM by corrodedNut »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #424 on: 05/10/2017 09:00 AM »
Tweet by an Inmarsat VP:

Quote
Massimiliano Ladovaz‏ @M_Ladovaz 17h17 hours ago

On the historic Falcon 9 landing pad

https://twitter.com/M_Ladovaz/status/861979809152462852

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #425 on: 06/05/2017 06:43 AM »
The new paint scheme can be seen in the attached CRS-11 shot. Clearly some re-painting will be needed after each landing. What I'm unsure about is why SpaceX need to do this given how accurate landings have been without it?

Some possible reasons are:

1. Smaller pads for FH
2. Testing on land before ASDS to give more margin

But with 10 successful landings before CRS-11 I'm not convinced by these reasons. Thoughts?

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #426 on: 06/05/2017 08:01 AM »
Greater Z-axis accuracy for softer touchdowns, which are easier on the hardware and therefore better for reuse?
« Last Edit: 06/05/2017 08:01 AM by docmordrid »
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Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #427 on: 06/05/2017 04:04 PM »
Dialing in accuracy for eventually cradle capture for ITS?  Might as well use your F9 returns as a development testbed.

I expect the conductive paint was a "cheap test".  I don't think it will be often repainted; if increased conductivity is useful I suspect they'll lay down some steel plate or use a denser rebar pattern for future pads.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2017 04:05 PM by cscott »

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #428 on: 06/06/2017 02:58 AM »
I think a big goal of more precise z will be to allow them to reduce the heft of the legs. Pehaps shrink diameter of cylinders, reduce gas tank storage etc. Might be able to shift some borderline asds landings to rtls?

Online cppetrie

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #429 on: 06/06/2017 03:05 AM »
I'd guess the improved z accuracy is mostly about reducing wear and tear on the landing legs. Remember with Block 5 they are wanting to just fold the legs back up and go again. That requires the legs sustain manageable shock loading during landing so as not to damage them or prematurely wear them out. I think it's really all about improving reuseability and time to refurbish and nothing more.

Offline intrepidpursuit

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #430 on: 06/08/2017 10:59 PM »
IMO it is likely that the Z accuracy of landings so far have proven a margin of error the could include putting too much stress on the legs. The pattern so far could indicate that it is +/- 3m accuracy, even though it has only actually been off by 1m so far, but 2.5m would break a leg.

If all it takes to add margin is to paint the pad, then obviously they'd do it.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #431 on: 06/09/2017 02:23 PM »
IMO it is likely that the Z accuracy of landings so far have proven a margin of error the could include putting too much stress on the legs. The pattern so far could indicate that it is +/- 3m accuracy, even though it has only actually been off by 1m so far, but 2.5m would break a leg.

If all it takes to add margin is to paint the pad, then obviously they'd do it.
That's not my read. The legs have a lot of margin in the crush core, but ideally you wouldn't want to have to rely on the crush core. Good enough z height and throttle response would mean you wouldn't need to replace the crush core.
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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #432 on: 06/09/2017 05:04 PM »
I think a big goal of more precise z will be to allow them to reduce the heft of the legs. Pehaps shrink diameter of cylinders, reduce gas tank storage etc. Might be able to shift some borderline asds landings to rtls?

It's possible they are always going to look for ways to be more efficient and accurate landings.  This could be a small step toward figuring out ITS cradle landing technology.

Regarding heft of the legs, I think of comparisons with Navy vs Air Force plants.  Navy planes have more robust landing gear and airframe to support the loads.  ASDS has several difficult factors in landing and transportation that RTLS will never face.

Is it possible we see different landing gear for RTLS and ASDS cores?
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #433 on: 06/11/2017 10:29 AM »
I think a big goal of more precise z will be to allow them to reduce the heft of the legs. Pehaps shrink diameter of cylinders, reduce gas tank storage etc. Might be able to shift some borderline asds landings to rtls?

It's possible they are always going to look for ways to be more efficient and accurate landings.  This could be a small step toward figuring out ITS cradle landing technology.

Regarding heft of the legs, I think of comparisons with Navy vs Air Force plants.  Navy planes have more robust landing gear and airframe to support the loads.  ASDS has several difficult factors in landing and transportation that RTLS will never face.

Is it possible we see different landing gear for RTLS and ASDS cores?

The hardened gear on carrier-based aircraft is due to the short 'runway' and need to put aircraft down quickly and precisely (hard touchdowns). ASDS has a bit of roll and pitch to deal with, but basically same as land landings with respect to velocity profile I believe.  Gear will remain common between the two IMO.  (Also simplifies ops by allowing single booster to do both without changing landing kit.)
« Last Edit: 06/11/2017 10:30 AM by AncientU »
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Offline titusou

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #434 on: 07/31/2017 05:16 PM »
I was checking Planet.com today and found something, and then photoshop them together.

The above is from http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36513.msg1627861#msg1627861
The bottom is from Planet.com (login required to get higher-res image)

Well... Maybe north pad will be ready in time for FH F1?

Titus

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #435 on: 07/31/2017 05:28 PM »
I was checking Planet.com today and found something, and then photoshop them together.

The above is from http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36513.msg1627861#msg1627861
The bottom is from Planet.com (login required to get higher-res image)

Well... Maybe north pad will be ready in time for FH F1?

Titus

Yep, we’ve been keeping tabs on the progress since at least May.

Land clearing has begun to the north, per May 16 Planet imagery update:

link

With Elon recently confirming side boosters RTLS and center core ASDS for FH-1, they definitely have to finish that northern pad before it launches.

Offline SoulWager

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #436 on: 07/31/2017 07:33 PM »
With Elon recently confirming side boosters RTLS and center core ASDS for FH-1, they definitely have to finish that northern pad before it launches.
They could probably land them both on the existing pad, though I don't expect they will.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #437 on: 08/02/2017 07:46 AM »
I was checking Planet.com today and found something, and then photoshop them together.

The above is from http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36513.msg1627861#msg1627861
The bottom is from Planet.com (login required to get higher-res image)

Well... Maybe north pad will be ready in time for FH F1?

Titus

Yep, we’ve been keeping tabs on the progress since at least May.

Land clearing has begun to the north, per May 16 Planet imagery update:

link

With Elon recently confirming side boosters RTLS and center core ASDS for FH-1, they definitely have to finish that northern pad before it launches.

Well, technically they only have to finish it before they land.  :)
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Offline Wolfram66

Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #438 on: 08/02/2017 05:11 PM »
I was checking Planet.com today and found something, and then photoshop them together.

The above is from http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36513.msg1627861#msg1627861
The bottom is from Planet.com (login required to get higher-res image)

Well... Maybe north pad will be ready in time for FH F1?

Titus

Yep, we’ve been keeping tabs on the progress since at least May.

Land clearing has begun to the north, per May 16 Planet imagery update:

link

With Elon recently confirming side boosters RTLS and center core ASDS for FH-1, they definitely have to finish that northern pad before it launches.

Well, technically they only have to finish it before they land.  :)

as of 7/28/2017
LINK

Online cppetrie

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Re: SpaceX Eastern Range Landing Facilities
« Reply #439 on: 08/03/2017 12:49 AM »
I was checking Planet.com today and found something, and then photoshop them together.

The above is from http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36513.msg1627861#msg1627861
The bottom is from Planet.com (login required to get higher-res image)

Well... Maybe north pad will be ready in time for FH F1?

Titus

Yep, we’ve been keeping tabs on the progress since at least May.

Land clearing has begun to the north, per May 16 Planet imagery update:

link

With Elon recently confirming side boosters RTLS and center core ASDS for FH-1, they definitely have to finish that northern pad before it launches.

Well, technically they only have to finish it before they land.  :)

as of 7/28/2017
LINK
Looks like may have started pouring concrete on the outer ring. If true, it should go pretty quickly from there.

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