Author Topic: Dream Chaser's European deal points to multi-role ambitions (Read 47292 times)

Chris Bergin · « **on:** 01/09/2014 01:44 AM »

Didn't want to focus on the ESA side too much as it's only a MOU style deal. Thought the future outlook was more interesting, so used that part of the teleconference and beefed up the second part of the article as a result, with a sprinkling of L2, too:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/01/dream-chasers-european-deal-opens-ambitions/

Andy DC · « **Reply #1 on:** 01/09/2014 02:06 AM »

Absolutely love that article Chris. Great update!

BrightLight · « **Reply #2 on:** 01/09/2014 02:21 AM »

Great article, maybe, just maybe DC will make it to orbit.

yg1968 · « **Reply #3 on:** 01/09/2014 02:28 AM »

I loved the article too!

M_Puckett · « **Reply #4 on:** 01/09/2014 02:30 AM »

A little too heavy for the Ariane V? That thing is positively svelte compared to Hermes and the Airane V is a more powerful booster today than it was when it was developed with the Hermes in mind.

If anything, it might have to launch with a secondary payload or ballast.

heinkel174 · « **Reply #5 on:** 01/09/2014 02:44 AM »

Speaking of the “the heavy" comment, maybe they're considering launching the DC on a stage-and-half configuration of Ariane V?

Is it even possible to directly insert the A5 core stage into a initial orbit?

rcoppola · « **Reply #6 on:** 01/09/2014 03:16 AM »

Very exciting to hear they are on course for a 2016 orbital flight. But I'd still love to see her ride atop a Falcon 9.
After all, they are both white and would look beautiful going up.

Oh...and I love the, "Dream Chaser has many strings to her bow" line. Classic.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #7 on:** 01/09/2014 03:23 AM »

Thanks chaps! Glad you liked that one!

Shuttle Endeavour · « **Reply #8 on:** 01/09/2014 03:50 AM »

Where will the SNC Dream Chaser be launching from?

aquanaut99 · « **Reply #9 on:** 01/09/2014 04:04 AM »

So, is this the resurrection of Hermes?

hkultala · « **Reply #10 on:** 01/09/2014 04:26 AM »

Quote from: aquanaut99 on 01/09/2014 04:04 AM

So, is this the resurrection of Hermes?

.. with similar capasity, much much lower mass. What I'm missing here?

Dreamchaser is something like 11 tonnes, hermes was getting too heavy for ariane V which could lift something like 20 tonnes. Both have similar class of capasity. How is dream chaser so much lighter?

NovaSilisko · « **Reply #11 on:** 01/09/2014 04:32 AM »

Quote from: hkultala on 01/09/2014 04:26 AM

Quote from: aquanaut99 on 01/09/2014 04:04 AM
So, is this the resurrection of Hermes?

.. with similar capasity, much much lower mass. What I'm missing here?

Dreamchaser is something like 11 tonnes, hermes was getting too heavy for ariane V which could lift something like 20 tonnes. Both have similar class of capasity. How is dream chaser so much lighter?

Improved materials? Optimistic estimates on the part of SNC? Less fuel for DC?

Halidon · « **Reply #12 on:** 01/09/2014 04:41 AM »

Thanks for the great article, Chris!

I'd love for them to go more in-depth comparing their TPS to the one SNC had been planning to use.

Oli · « **Reply #13 on:** 01/09/2014 06:21 AM »

I am sceptical.

First of all, ESA can already fly to the ISS with the Russians or whatever NASA choses as a commercial crew vehicle. That's part of the deal, right? So maybe ESA plans to contribute to ISS operations with Dreamchaser participation? (similar to the SM of Orion). I don't like the sound of that, at least not in the case of commercial crew.

In any case, its very unlikely that ESA would fund an american company to build a crew vehicle for them. I don't think that is how ESA works.

Regarding launch on the Ariane 5, that seems to be another ploy from the DLR to keep Ariane 6 from happening too soon.

Lars_J · « **Reply #14 on:** 01/09/2014 06:24 AM »

Quote from: hkultala on 01/09/2014 04:26 AM

Quote from: aquanaut99 on 01/09/2014 04:04 AM
So, is this the resurrection of Hermes?

.. with similar capasity, much much lower mass. What I'm missing here?

Dreamchaser is something like 11 tonnes, hermes was getting too heavy for ariane V which could lift something like 20 tonnes. Both have similar class of capasity. How is dream chaser so much lighter?

No, look at the attached image(s). Hermes - as it had grown - was significantly larger, with more capabilities than DC.

I find the idea that DC would be too heavy for Ariane V to be very bizarre.

Star One · « **Reply #15 on:** 01/09/2014 06:42 AM »

Good article Chris. Thanks for that.

woods170 · « **Reply #16 on:** 01/09/2014 07:20 AM »

Quote from: Oli on 01/09/2014 06:21 AM

I am sceptical.

First of all, ESA can already fly to the ISS with the Russians or whatever NASA choses as a commercial crew vehicle. That's part of the deal, right? So maybe ESA plans to contribute to ISS operations with Dreamchaser participation? (similar to the SM of Orion). I don't like the sound of that, at least not in the case of commercial crew.

In any case, its very unlikely that ESA would fund an american company to build a crew vehicle for them. I don't think that is how ESA works.

Regarding launch on the Ariane 5, that seems to be another ploy from the DLR to keep Ariane 6 from happening too soon.

ESA is spreading it's eggs over multiple baskets. Risk reduction. Soyuz for ISS flights. From the deal with SN it is not immediately clear that the use of DreamChaser will be for ISS flight. Actually, it is more likely that ESA will want to have orbital access for non-ISS missions.
And I don't think SN will be building DC's for ESA. It very much more likely will be that ESA will be buying DC flight services.

Oli · « **Reply #17 on:** 01/09/2014 08:13 AM »

Quote from: woods170

ESA is spreading it's eggs over multiple baskets. Risk reduction. Soyuz for ISS flights.

ESA pays for Soyuz flights with their own developments (Columbus, ATV, Orion SM).

Quote from: woods170

Actually, it is more likely that ESA will want to have orbital access for non-ISS missions.

Manned access? I believe it when I see it. More likely ESA will cooperate with NASA on BEO missions. For some of the robotic missions mentioned in the article ESA is funding a small X-37-like vehicle that fits on Vega.

Quote from: woods170

And I don't think SN will be building DC's for ESA. It very much more likely will be that ESA will be buying DC flight services.

Which is almost the same thing.

This probably belongs in the discussion thread...

Covspaceman · « **Reply #18 on:** 01/09/2014 08:22 AM »

Great article as usual, Chris. Exciting stuff indeed but the bit that caught my eye in particular was:

"...with references to how the Europeans may be able to offer a lighter version of the Thermal Protection System (TPS) that is currently allocated to the future Dream Chaser fleet..."

Could anyone expand on this? As Europe has no re-entry capability, I had assumed all the experience and practical knowledge of TPS is largely in the US!

Thanks,

Andrew.

Oli · « **Reply #19 on:** 01/09/2014 08:42 AM »

Quote from: Covspaceman

Could anyone expand on this? As Europe has no re-entry capability, I had assumed all the experience and practical knowledge of TPS is largely in the US!

"In the US, metallic TPS is at a higher TRL than CMC TPS, while in Europe, CMC TPS is at a higher TRL than metallic TPS."

http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080017096_2008016802.pdf

From 2008, maybe they plan to make it CMC.