Author Topic: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)  (Read 11819 times)

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #20 on: 12/02/2013 03:05 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Chris I was going by this update:
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
November (TBD) Nauka Proton-M Baikonur

2016
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
May (TBD) Progress M-UM (No. 303) Soyuz-2-1B Baikonur

2017
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
end of year NEM-1 Proton-M Baikonur

2018
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
TBD NEM-2 Proton-M (TBD) Baikonur (TBD)


If they carry through with that schedule, one module a year for the next few years, isn't bad. It keeps a consistent and fast pace. I'm more worried about the number of years we will be able to use them.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #21 on: 12/02/2013 08:10 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Chris I was going by this update:
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
November (TBD) Nauka Proton-M Baikonur

2016
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
May (TBD) Progress M-UM (No. 303) Soyuz-2-1B Baikonur

2017
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
end of year NEM-1 Proton-M Baikonur

2018
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
TBD NEM-2 Proton-M (TBD) Baikonur (TBD)

If they carry through with that schedule, one module a year for the next few years, isn't bad. It keeps a consistent and fast pace. I'm more worried about the number of years we will be able to use them.
Before the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #22 on: 12/07/2013 05:34 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Chris I was going by this update:
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
November (TBD) Nauka Proton-M Baikonur

2016
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
May (TBD) Progress M-UM (No. 303) Soyuz-2-1B Baikonur

2017
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
end of year NEM-1 Proton-M Baikonur

2018
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
TBD NEM-2 Proton-M (TBD) Baikonur (TBD)

If they carry through with that schedule, one module a year for the next few years, isn't bad. It keeps a consistent and fast pace. I'm more worried about the number of years we will be able to use them.
Before the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.


Yeah, I knew that was always the intent. I didn't know MRM-1 and MRM-2 were part of plan. Where will they go?
« Last Edit: 12/08/2013 03:36 PM by PeterAlt »

Offline Jim

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #23 on: 12/07/2013 06:19 PM »

Before the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.


Yeah, I knew that was always the intent. I didn't know MRM-1 and MRM-2 were part of plan. Where will the go?

That is not an intent but a wish

Offline Danderman

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #24 on: 12/07/2013 07:31 PM »
OPSEK is a quasi-formal Roskosmos plan for maintaining the Russian segment if the USOS is discarded.

Offline savuporo

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #25 on: 12/08/2013 01:20 AM »
What i would really like to know if there has been any discussipn of OPSEK with chinese participation
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Offline 360-180

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #26 on: 12/08/2013 11:38 AM »
While Roskosmos comes from the fact that the ISS will operate until 2028. Therefore, the delay for two years the MLM will not affect 20s.

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #27 on: 12/08/2013 03:41 PM »
What i would really like to know if there has been any discussipn of OPSEK with chinese participation
Don't go there. Not here, yet. Believe me, I tried. So, until there's real news to justify bringing it up...

Offline Danderman

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #28 on: 12/08/2013 03:46 PM »
While Roskosmos comes from the fact that the ISS will operate until 2028. Therefore, the delay for two years the MLM will not affect 20s.

The reality is that by 2028, the Russian segment will be obsolete, and not worth operating any more.

The designs will be very old, the hardware will be well used, and newer systems will be more cost effective.

Online EgorBotts

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #29 on: 03/22/2017 03:37 PM »
Well, it seems appropriate to reactivate this thread, since apparently the MLM suffers,  this early 2017, the same disease it suffered back in 2013.
Another "10 month delay" ahead?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/a25773/mlm-delayed-russia/

Offline Lars-J

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #30 on: 03/24/2017 05:33 PM »
This thing will never launch. Mark my words.

(And no, I have no industry contacts, I'm just stating the obvious)

Offline woods170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #31 on: 03/24/2017 07:58 PM »
This thing will never launch. Mark my words.

(And no, I have no industry contacts, I'm just stating the obvious)
Maybe. Maybe not. But they are looking at yet another estimated 2-year delay to get the latest mess fixed. It involves yet another very intrusive operation on, and modification of, the module's tankage and plumbing.

Offline Space Pete

Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #32 on: 03/24/2017 09:35 PM »
Might as well melt it down and start over. This has gone beyond ridiculous now. There comes a point in engineering where you just throw more and more resources at ever diminishing returns. Time to cut and run. >:(
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Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #33 on: 03/24/2017 11:43 PM »
Nah. It'll just be kicked down the line to the next station wherever. They'll just keep rebuilding it again and again for subsequent requirements/capabilities.

Then they'll screw up on those, delay and remediate til cancellation. Will go into storage, then be proposed for yet another role elsewhere. Higher latitude station, lunar, perhaps even Mars/Phobos.

Waste not, want not. There's a lot of Russian space stuff in storage, wash, rinse, reuse.

Offline robertross

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #34 on: 03/25/2017 01:40 PM »
Nah. It'll just be kicked down the line to the next station wherever. They'll just keep rebuilding it again and again for subsequent requirements/capabilities.

Then they'll screw up on those, delay and remediate til cancellation. Will go into storage, then be proposed for yet another role elsewhere. Higher latitude station, lunar, perhaps even Mars/Phobos.

Waste not, want not. There's a lot of Russian space stuff in storage, wash, rinse, reuse.

While I would agree, from the PM article it seems to indicate that they can't wash & rinse the contaminants off of the interior surfaces of the propellant tank(s).

I would have thought something like carbon tetra-chloride could wash just about anything out  ;)
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Online brickmack

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #35 on: 03/25/2017 03:15 PM »
Anyone got any pictures of these irreplaceable weird-shaped tanks? Article shows a serial number, but Google finds nothing. How much smaller would its fuel load be if they switched to the smaller tanks?

Online okan170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #36 on: 03/25/2017 06:04 PM »
Might as well melt it down and start over. This has gone beyond ridiculous now. There comes a point in engineering where you just throw more and more resources at ever diminishing returns. Time to cut and run. >:(

About a year ago, I looked at adding the MLM to the ISS model I use for renders since it seemed that maybe it might be going better.  After that I decided that I'll add it only once the module is actually on the launchpad.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #37 on: 03/26/2017 02:15 AM »
IMHO To finish MLM fix the end of development as 3 years time. Annual budget to be the same as it is at the moment. With those two limitations what can MLM do?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #38 on: 03/27/2017 01:01 PM »
Quote
Anatoly Zak‏ @RussianSpaceWeb

Russian engineers choose scenario to salvage #ISS' #Nauka module. EXCLUSIVE DETAILS: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html #Roscosmos #MLM

https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/846344855987126274

Offline Archibald

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #39 on: 03/27/2017 02:23 PM »
The MLM will launch when man land on Mars...

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