Author Topic: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)  (Read 16428 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« on: 10/22/2013 04:26 PM »
Per Space Pete's Request:
Quote
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(

Offline Danderman

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #1 on: 10/22/2013 05:02 PM »
I am speculating that the long delay from initial construction of FGB-2 to today has caused a deterioration of the propellant lines in MLM.  Why this would be unexpected is a mystery to me.

Online woods170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #2 on: 10/22/2013 05:56 PM »
Don't think so. The ones on Zarya are even older and working just fine. And those are in a much harsher environment than the ones on MLM.

From what I understand of my DutchSpace source the propellant transfer lines on MLM were almost completely replaced with a new version when the FGB backup was converted to MLM. It is with this new version that all kinds of things seem to be wrong.

Online woods170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #3 on: 10/22/2013 06:06 PM »
Per Space Pete's Request:
Quote
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(

Khrunichev has gone catastrophically wrong over the years. And with it the project to convert the FGB backup into MLM. At least; so it seems.
From what I hear, from the walking-corridor rumours at ESA, that is exactly the reason why RSC Energia got the contract to build the NEM modules, and not Khrunichev. Despite Khrunichev having constructed the majority of Soviet / Russian space station modules over the past 40 years.
If those rumours are correct, than that says a lot.

How could a company with so much experience in constructing space station modules get it so incredibly wrong with this one? That has got to be the result of just more than the use of some inexperienced engineers. IMO the sometimes mentioned "organizational issues" at Khrunichev are very much to blame for this.

Another indicator for Khrunichev having gone wrong is (obviously) the recent Proton failure, more particularly the (almost ridiculous) cause of that incident.
« Last Edit: 10/22/2013 06:07 PM by woods170 »

Offline baldusi

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #4 on: 10/22/2013 06:41 PM »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Offline Prober

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #5 on: 10/22/2013 06:52 PM »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Maybe the plan is to take the company apart?     Just hasn't happened yet.
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I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Lars_J

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #6 on: 11/29/2013 05:03 PM »
Since the whole space industry in Russia is headed towards nationalization (unless I am mistaken) - does it really matter if Krunichev or Energia get the contracts? After the re-org, they will be run by the same people anyway.

Offline Danderman

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #7 on: 11/29/2013 05:09 PM »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Don't forget Polyot in Omsk, where much production takes place.

Offline Prober

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #8 on: 11/30/2013 11:38 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #9 on: 12/01/2013 12:12 AM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.

Offline Prober

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #10 on: 12/01/2013 01:14 AM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Chris I was going by this update:
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
November (TBD) Nauka Proton-M Baikonur

2016
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
May (TBD) Progress M-UM (No. 303) Soyuz-2-1B Baikonur

2017
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
end of year NEM-1 Proton-M Baikonur

2018
Date Satellite(s) Rocket/Upper stage Cosmodrome Time
TBD NEM-2 Proton-M (TBD) Baikonur (TBD)
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Online woods170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #11 on: 12/01/2013 02:46 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

The way things are going I would not be surprised if NEM-2 ends up launching in 2020, if ever.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2013 02:46 PM by woods170 »

Offline Prober

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #12 on: 12/01/2013 02:48 PM »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

The way things are going I would not be surprised if NEM-2 ends up launching in 2020, if ever.

Sadly, I agree with you.
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline owais.usmani

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #13 on: 12/01/2013 04:52 PM »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #14 on: 12/01/2013 05:43 PM »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline owais.usmani

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #15 on: 12/02/2013 04:32 AM »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Online woods170

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #16 on: 12/02/2013 09:34 AM »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

What do you think my "if ever" comment was present for? ;)

Offline owais.usmani

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2013 10:43 AM »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

What do you think my "if ever" comment was present for? ;)

Well I got confused by you people talking about it being launched in 2018 / 2020. I thought it has been contracted & I missed the news.  :P
« Last Edit: 12/02/2013 10:44 AM by owais.usmani »

Offline JazzFan

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #18 on: 12/02/2013 10:51 AM »
Even a bad issue can create positives.  What long term improvements will come to RKK Energiya and khrunichev from the MLM debacle?

Offline Zannanza

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Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #19 on: 12/02/2013 11:08 AM »
Will it ever be launched? I doubt it.

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