Author Topic: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?  (Read 65643 times)

Offline Proponent

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #20 on: 09/09/2013 06:28 PM »
NASA seems to plan EVAs directly from Orion for EM-2 (from 1:35 in the video).

EDIT: "seems plan" -> "seems to plan"
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 05:37 PM by Proponent »

Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #21 on: 09/09/2013 06:37 PM »
NASA seems plan EVAs directly from Orion for EM-2 (from 1:35 in the video).

Two crew and preposition tools.  The room from the other two crew would be taken up by EMUs and their servicing equipment.  All they are doing getting some sample on one EVA and nothing like repairing HST, which would involve long multiple EVA's

Offline Danderman

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #22 on: 09/09/2013 06:40 PM »

No airlock required. Orion's command module has airlock capability.


No, it doesn't.  It is only can support decompress for contingencies.

It is good to know that Orion can not support EVA for missions such as the asteroid rendezvous.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #23 on: 09/09/2013 06:42 PM »

http://www.universetoday.com/88434/human-mission-to-an-asteroid-the-orion-mpcv/

Per Lockheed:

Logistically, the Orion MPCV could even support doing an EVA from the hatch on the capsule.
“We have a hatch that is big enough that an astronaut in a space suit can get out,” Hopkins said, “and the internal systems in the spacecraft are designed to tolerate the cabin being depressurized. We don’t rely on air circulation to carry the heat away from the electronics – they have their own cold plates to take the heat away. The knobs are designed to be manipulated with spacesuit gloves on, not just bare hands. A lot of those features just worked out to be pretty applicable to the asteroid mission because it was designed for a similar set of mission requirements.”




marketing words


Hmmmm ... we have data from the designer, we have NASA issued video showing EVA from Orion, and we have an opposite opinion from Jim.

Question: Can Dragon support EVA, and if so, what technology is available to Dragon that Orion does not have?

Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #24 on: 09/09/2013 06:45 PM »

It is good to know that Orion can not support EVA for missions such as the asteroid rendezvous.


Just as much a fantasy as HST repair.  Current Orion requirements exclude EVA capability.  A standard Orion can not support an EVA.  Anything can be done if given enough money. 

Offline Danderman

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #25 on: 09/09/2013 06:47 PM »

Where are the "batteries and gyros" going to be carried?


These won't fit inside the Orion command module?

No, those aren't gyros and  especially not the astronaut.
 

According to the attached fact sheet, the gyros have the following dimensions:

Size: 12.8 x 10.5 x 8.9 inches
Weight: 24.3 pounds

Actually, this is for a rate sensor unit, which contains 2 TWO gyros.

This is literally smaller than a breadbox. Can this really NOT fit into Orion?

Offline renclod

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #26 on: 09/09/2013 07:40 PM »
A single Orion would probably not be able to service Hubble, but two Orions...

One would stay pretty much standard / unmodified and would hold the crew. The other would be launched without LAS,  main engine,  maybe even without parachutes and proper heatshield - but with the needed robotic arm(s), ORUs, space suits, etc. and should still be a known quantity wrt life support, EVA, hatch, avionics, and so on.

« Last Edit: 09/09/2013 07:43 PM by renclod »

Offline gfagley

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #27 on: 09/09/2013 07:58 PM »
launch from SLS, dock with an airlock/cargo hold (stored behind Orion during launch).   dock with Hubble with airlock.    how service mission can happen from the airlock.   all needed gear can be stored in cargo hold.  use robotic arm to move what needs being moved...   may have to add thrusters to the airlock/cargo hold to control everything (especially when you add the Hubble to the end of it)

Offline Mark S

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #28 on: 09/09/2013 08:04 PM »
A single Orion would probably not be able to service Hubble, but two Orions...

One would stay pretty much standard / unmodified and would hold the crew. The other would be launched without LAS,  main engine,  maybe even without parachutes and proper heatshield - but with the needed robotic arm(s), ORUs, space suits, etc. and should still be a known quantity wrt life support, EVA, hatch, avionics, and so on.

I'm a big fan of maximizing use of Orion and SLS, but launching two Orions would be excessive. Instead, a better idea would be to design a "Hubble Servicing Module", which would take the place of the ICPS. This module could have a robotic arm to grapple the HST, or Orion could dock with the passive docking fixture that is now attached to HST. The module would have plenty of room to carry whatever spares are needed by the telescope.

The Orion should have plenty of delta-V to take both itself and a servicing module up to Hubble's orbit, eliminating the need for the ICPS.


Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #29 on: 09/09/2013 08:07 PM »

Actually, this is for a rate sensor unit, which contains 2 TWO gyros.

This is literally smaller than a breadbox. Can this really NOT fit into Orion?


I was thinking reaction wheels

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #30 on: 09/09/2013 08:43 PM »
Question: Can Dragon support EVA, and if so, what technology is available to Dragon that Orion does not have?

No, not as far as we know. It will be less capable of EVA than Orion.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2013 08:44 PM by Lars_J »

Online BrightLight

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #31 on: 09/09/2013 08:53 PM »
Wouldn't make more sense, reduce risk, and be more utilitarian to use a Skylab II in LEO or MEO than to risk astronauts and the Hubble.  With the Skylab II approach, Hubble, Spitzer, Kepler etc. systems could be re-fitted, refueled etc whereas the MPCV method is a one-launch-one-mission approach which would be of limited value.

Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #32 on: 09/09/2013 11:42 PM »
  With the Skylab II approach, Hubble, Spitzer, Kepler etc. systems could be re-fitted, refueled etc

No, because those are all in different orbits

Offline DMeader

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #33 on: 09/10/2013 12:17 AM »
Hubble, Spitzer, Kepler etc. systems could be re-fitted, refueled etc...

You do realize that Kepler isn't even in Earth orbit...

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #34 on: 09/10/2013 12:36 AM »
Question: Can Dragon support EVA, and if so, what technology is available to Dragon that Orion does not have?

No, not as far as we know. It will be less capable of EVA than Orion.

Unless someone sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon.  How is the development of the MMSEV's suit port getting along?

Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #35 on: 09/10/2013 01:12 AM »

Unless someone sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon.  How is the development of the MMSEV's suit port getting along?

Those are mutually exclusive.  Dragon is a spacecraft and not a fairing for the MMSEV. 
MMSEV is not a flight project, so there is no real work in developing the suit lock.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #36 on: 09/10/2013 01:16 AM »

Unless someone sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon.  How is the development of the MMSEV's suit port getting along?

Those are mutually exclusive.  Dragon is a spacecraft and not a fairing for the MMSEV. 
MMSEV is not a flight project, so there is no real work in developing the suit lock.

I do not need the Dragon (or CST-100) to be a fairing to the MMSEV but a crew delivery vehicle that docks with the granddaughter of MMSEV.

Offline Jim

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #37 on: 09/10/2013 01:29 AM »

Unless someone sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon.  How is the development of the MMSEV's suit port getting along?

Those are mutually exclusive.  Dragon is a spacecraft and not a fairing for the MMSEV. 
MMSEV is not a flight project, so there is no real work in developing the suit lock.

I do not need the Dragon (or CST-100) to be a fairing to the MMSEV but a crew delivery vehicle that docks with the granddaughter of MMSEV.

You need?  You don't have any say in anything related. 
"sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon" implies carrying and not connecting to.

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #38 on: 09/10/2013 03:29 AM »
Hubble will be killed off shortly
Are there any references to this?

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Orion for Hubble Service Mission?
« Reply #39 on: 09/10/2013 04:40 AM »
"sticks something like the MMSEV on the Dragon" implies carrying and not connecting to.


They can both have NDS ports.

p.s.  I was assuming that the two spacecraft meet in LEO before flying to Hubble.
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 04:55 AM by A_M_Swallow »

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