Author Topic: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?  (Read 5704 times)

Offline SoCalEric

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Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« on: 03/22/2013 01:51 AM »
I wasn't sure if this forum had much activity re ground-based observations. The knowledge and brainpower here seem very often to transcend both 'NASA' as well as 'flight'.

 I was looking for recent NEO / LSST / ATLAS / Pan-Starrs progress & updates.
« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 02:04 AM by SoCalEric »
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Offline mlindner

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Offline eeergo

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #2 on: 03/22/2013 08:58 AM »
In SpaceWeather they make a pseudo-daily update on it:

http://www.spaceweather.com/

There's a beautiful gallery from amateur contributions:

http://spaceweather.com/gallery/index.php?title=comet
-DaviD-

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #3 on: 03/22/2013 02:45 PM »
Here's an update. They got a private donation:

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/press-releases/Pan-STARRS_Donation/

$3 million. They were apparently supposed to get a $10 million earmark in 2011, but earmarks were (somewhat) eliminated. The press release does not clearly state how much more they need, only that the $3 million keeps them going.

I was up at Pan-STARRS in September, also heard a briefing on it. I thought that they were fully-funded by the Europeans for the second telescope (which I thought was under construction--the dome is left over from a previous project). So I was a little surprised by the above press release.

Pan-STARRS has a somewhat troubled history. Their imaging array is impressive, but they have faced some developmental issues.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #4 on: 03/22/2013 02:58 PM »
They had me at Orthogonal Transfer CCD...
For tracking, nothing like moving the charge on the chip around instead of the telescope!!!

So do we call it a 1.4 giga (as in billion) pixel camera?
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #5 on: 03/22/2013 04:19 PM »
Yeah, I realize we're a little off-topic here, but this section is low traffic anyway, so I don't think there's a big deal.

They had me at Orthogonal Transfer CCD...
For tracking, nothing like moving the charge on the chip around instead of the telescope!!!

So do we call it a 1.4 giga (as in billion) pixel camera?

It's a big array. They move a lot of data, and transfer and storage is a problem (I think they move most of the data over to Oahu for storage. And they don't keep everything. Survey telescopes are looking for changes, so they don't really want to keep lots of data of the same things over and over again.)

For no reason here are some of my pictures. I didn't get any good shots inside the dome because that's tough to do. I think that the second photo is of the solar observatory that is up there. Also included is a photo of the nearby USAF AEOS telescope dome. I went inside that too, but they didn't let me bring my camera!

« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 04:22 PM by Blackstar »

Offline ngc3314

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #6 on: 03/22/2013 04:32 PM »
They had me at Orthogonal Transfer CCD...
For tracking, nothing like moving the charge on the chip around instead of the telescope!!!

So do we call it a 1.4 giga (as in billion) pixel camera?

Speaking of OT CCDs, I was just writing up some results from Tonry's prototype OPTIC 4kx4k imager. It's like magic when rapid tracking is turned on and the stars all shrink (best ground-based images I've gotten, at any rate). These devices are also being deployed on the 3.5 WIYN telescope as the ODI (one-degree imager) - so far they've populated about 1/4 of the entire array, which will likewise be a gigapixel when full (and encounters some of the same challenges in data handling, albeit not as often as a rapid-cadence sky survey).

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #7 on: 03/22/2013 04:53 PM »
To me, the Orthogonal Transfer is way more exciting than it being 1.4 giga pixel.

But then again I'm part of that weird 0.1% that understands the differences between interline transfer, frame transfer, microlenses, bayer filters, back thinned CCD's, and etaloning. 
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

Offline SoCalEric

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #8 on: 03/22/2013 04:57 PM »
======================================================
Update on progress on PS2 of PanStarrs - 3/21/2013
======================================================
http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.3460v1.pdf

On 3/21/2013 W. Burgett (Project director) wrote....

At the moment, we are really hamstrung providing proper updates on our websites
because at the moment there is no one at the IfA maintaining/updating our Pan-STARRS
websites.  I need to find a way to correct that, but haven't been able to do so yet.

Here's a quick informal update for you:
* PS2 First Light with a test camera by early July 2013
* PS2 with new gigapixel camera ("GPC2") with some good/some mediocre CCDs
   by end of September 2013
* PS2 science operations with 64 good CCDs in GPC2 by July 2014

Relative to the estimated dates for First Light and science operations, this represents a bit of a slip
compared to what is in the arXiv:1207.3460 paper due to another delay in CCD delivery (which
was identified as a potential schedule risk in the paper). Other than the CCD delivery schedule, just
about everything else is close to the schedule estimated in July 2012 (within 3 months or less of those
estimates).  Of course, our luck could change at any moment, and things could become much worse,
so it's still a very nerve-wracking and stressful time for us.

Check back with me in May, and hopefully by then the IfA will have figured out a way to keep
interested people better informed about our progress.

{Regarding ATLAS and distributed use of MOPS transient detection software...}

Yes, there are always lots of challenges for a major, complex project like Pan-STARRS.
Sometimes the competition for funding definitely creates some toxic atmosphere between
members of different projects, but a lot of that just depends on the personalities involved.

The MOPS SW developed by and for Pan-STARRS will be used (in a modified form) by both LSST and ATLAS. 
I don't know if it will ever be used by Catalina.  NASA would like to see some effort at collaborative
and coordinated observing between the various surveys, but it hasn't happened yet. My
principal MOPS SW engineer is leaving Pan-STARRS on June 1 to join ATLAS to do
that MOPS modification.  Of course, I'm happy to see the future uses of Pan-STARRS SW
development, but I'll be very sad to lose his services.

{Regarding how the second telescope, PS2, will be used}

The added capability provided by PS2:
a) Same exposure time by both telescopes looking at the exact same patch of sky at
    the same time, and add the two images to get increased depth (about ~0.5 mag deeper).
b) Same exposure time, one telescope looking at a patch of sky immediately adjacent to
    what the other telescope is looking at (at the same time) to effectively double the area
    coverage per "exposure". In some cases, that is expected to increase the number of discoveries
    per night at about the same rate as going a bit fainter as described above in (a).
c) One telescope looking at a patch of sky the other telescope looked at 2-3 days previously
     to provide "self-followup" of the objects detected on the earlier night. There are also pros
     and cons here.
etc.

The new PS1+PS2 mission is just now getting some serious thought, so optimizing the planned
use of the two telescopes still needs to occur.

Cheers,
W. Burgett



---------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/18/2013 4:35 PM, webroamer99@yahoo.com wrote:

This was great:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.3460v1.pdf

As was this yesterday (12.0 release)
http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.3634

Just wondering where to follow PS2 status.

...

I just noticed the combination of :
http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112806235/anonymous-3m-donation-puts-pan-starrs-back-on-track/
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2013/02/19/news/entertainment/nasa-puts-5m-towards-asteroid-detection/

A lot going on!
I hope the collaboative aspects outweigh competitive distractions.
I was wondering,

1) are prospects good for more or less optimal MOPS-coordinated integration of PanStarrs / ATLAS, or even PanStarrs/ATLAS/Catalina/LSST data? (or is that a silly question?). With hardware roll out taking as long as it does, I can't help but wonder if trans-facility softare could compensate at the stages prior to discarding raw data.

2) Was PS2 expecred to improve Pan-Starrs cadence? (Higher S/N --> reduction in exposure time?)

Eric Klein
---------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 05:06 PM by SoCalEric »
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Offline SoCalEric

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #9 on: 03/22/2013 05:25 PM »
Thanks, all.

To me, the Orthogonal Transfer is way more exciting than it being 1.4 giga pixel.

Neat stuff.
I wonder,

1) Any reason for all upcoming systems / upgrades to _not_ be rigged with OT?

2) Know of any list of upcoming cameras being worked on? I guess these are often worked on at Livermore or other national labs? I get confused between gigapixel "camera" CCDs versus gigapixel spectograph CCDs (bigBoss, Monte Blanco ?).  Do they share much of the same innards, and is there any economy of scale ramping up in mass production thereof? (Otherwise, these seem like one-off custom projects taking 3-4 years to build).

Thanks.
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #10 on: 03/22/2013 06:59 PM »
Thanks, all.

To me, the Orthogonal Transfer is way more exciting than it being 1.4 giga pixel.

Neat stuff.
I wonder,

1) Any reason for all upcoming systems / upgrades to _not_ be rigged with OT?

Cost, Custom Silicon,
Requires an active control system.

It can not just be put on a tube and pointed. It needs something (star, artificial guide star) to readout from a secondary system to tell it which way to shift the charge to keep the charge centered on the image due to atmospherics.
No market beyond systems that are affected by atmospherics (High Res Astronomy).

Then again, I've only played with the commercial Sony/Kodak/E2V/Hammamatsu Silicon and suck at Astrophotography. No I have not yet managed to spot Pan-Starrs in the evening twilight.
I just saw some idiot at the gym put a water bottle in the pringles holder on the treadmill.

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #11 on: 01/06/2016 04:40 AM »
It's been several years since the most recent PAN STARRS update I could find online. The JPL NEO program statistics do show up several discoveries accredited to PAN STARRS, Wikipedia basically has the project dormant since 2014, there were a couple of Google hangouts with PS1SC members when that project ended but it is hard to ascertain what the project status actually is. Anybody have any info?

Offline as58

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #12 on: 01/06/2016 03:04 PM »
There's a talk about Pan-STARRS surveys tomorrow at the 227th AAS meeting. Some info is available in the abstract:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2016AAS...22732407C

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #13 on: 01/06/2016 04:39 PM »
There's a talk about Pan-STARRS surveys tomorrow at the 227th AAS meeting. Some info is available in the abstract:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2016AAS...22732407C

Relevant quote from the abstract:

"the Pan-STARRS NEO Survey, is currently underway on PS1 and it will be supplemented by PS2 observations as PS2 becomes fully operational. We will also report on the status of PS2 and the prospects for future wide field surveys in the Northern Hemisphere."

Hope to hear more after the AAs meeting.
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Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #14 on: 01/07/2016 03:32 PM »
I searched twitter and the press releases (typical sources of information for those of us not in a conference) but PAN-STARRS has not popped up. Does anyone have more news? Is there a website where we can see AAS presentations online?

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Any updates re Pan-Starrs PS2 current status?
« Reply #15 on: 05/11/2017 10:34 PM »
There has been an update on PAN-STARRS at the IAU Symposium 330 Astrometry and Astrophysics in the Gaia Sky. The presentation have been posted online and one of them, by Eugene Magnier, deals with interactions between Gaia DR1 and Pan-STARRS DR1 released in December 2016

https://iaus330.sciencesconf.org/data/pages/Magnier_Linux_Acrobat.pdf

Near the end it contains news: PAN-STARRS 2 is coming back online in the summer of 2017 and is going into full scale ops in the Winter of 2017

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