Author Topic: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread  (Read 458415 times)

Offline Downix

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #40 on: 07/29/2012 02:18 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
A stock 747 cargo plane could carry it.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline manboy

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #41 on: 07/29/2012 02:32 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
I'm not sure if it can either.

How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
A stock 747 cargo plane could carry it.
That might be overkill.
« Last Edit: 07/29/2012 02:32 AM by manboy »
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Offline BrightLight

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #42 on: 07/29/2012 02:32 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
A stock 747 cargo plane could carry it.
I don't know if this is possible, but if the wing/fins can be removed after flight the body should fit into many cargo aircraft.

Offline Downix

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #43 on: 07/29/2012 02:46 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
A stock 747 cargo plane could carry it.
I don't know if this is possible, but if the wing/fins can be removed after flight the body should fit into many cargo aircraft.
There's also the SuperGuppy and Antonov An-124.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline BrightLight

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #44 on: 07/29/2012 02:50 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport? It can't take off on it own, it doesn't fit on a truck (is that right?), and AFAIK it doesn't have a special transporter plane and mounting harness.
WK2

That would likely require a special agreement with Virgin, as all WK2s should be in regular use by the time DC flies. I wonder if one will be forthcoming.
Skycrane then...
Skycrane doesn't have the range to transport it across the Atlantic.
Once again WK2...
A stock 747 cargo plane could carry it.
I don't know if this is possible, but if the wing/fins can be removed after flight the body should fit into many cargo aircraft.
There's also the SuperGuppy and Antonov An-124.
yes, I forgot about the Anatov 124, yes it can do it, although it is not a cheap plane to rent, who runs the supper guppy, is it NASA?

Offline Jim

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #45 on: 07/29/2012 02:53 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.

Offline Downix

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #46 on: 07/29/2012 03:06 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.
Since when can't the Guppy cross oceans? Did it suddenly lose range since the 1990's when it was flown from France to Florida?

Checking, unloaded, it's range is 3,211km, plenty to reach europe from the US. The cape to bangor. Bangor to iceland. Iceland to france. France to wherever the DC landed.  Once loaded, would need two more stops, but still easily done.
« Last Edit: 07/29/2012 04:21 AM by Downix »
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline adrianwyard

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #47 on: 07/29/2012 03:18 AM »
The Antonov is not wide enough to carry it without removing the tip fins. The Super Guppy is wide enough, however.

http://jsc-aircraft-ops.jsc.nasa.gov/guppy/index.html

Offline adrianwyard

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #48 on: 07/29/2012 03:52 AM »
To head back briefly to the topic of nose-skid vs conventional landing gear:

A skid design might allow them to get the nose on the runway while the vehicle is still pitched up substantially, and the body is generating lift. This could be done with a very long nose gear strut too, but I bet a long skid is better solution for several reasons:

Simpler, lighter, more robust (for a given weight), takes less internal volume (it's essentially a nose gear door with no nose gear.)

Additionally, judging from the image it's probably generating a little lift of its own. The HL-20 experimented with the addition of canards at the front to add lift, lower landing speed, and improve landing characteristics (Rocket Science looked at this too). Even the Shuttle Orbiter with its large wings would come down heavily on the nose gear (especially before the addition of the tail parachute), so this probably was a potential problem for Dream Chaser too, and the long skid that keeps the nose up sounds like a good solution.

The image below is from the following video (starts at 17:00)



« Last Edit: 07/29/2012 04:31 PM by adrianwyard »

Offline Jim

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #49 on: 07/29/2012 04:28 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.
Since when can't the Guppy cross oceans? Did it suddenly lose range since the 1990's when it was flown from France to Florida?

Checking, unloaded, it's range is 3,211km, plenty to reach europe from the US. The cape to bangor. Bangor to iceland. Iceland to france. France to wherever the DC landed.  Once loaded, would need two more stops, but still easily done.

Your scenario is not possible, the range is much less with a load. 

Offline Downix

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #50 on: 07/29/2012 04:29 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.
Since when can't the Guppy cross oceans? Did it suddenly lose range since the 1990's when it was flown from France to Florida?

Which Guppy?
N941NA, the only one flying. While loaded to maximum, it's range is limited to 950 km, empty it's range is over 3200km, more then sufficient for the job. The SuperGuppy can lift over 24 metric tons. The DreamChaser is under 11 metric tons, which means that they will not be near capacity so would retain a good range.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline Jim

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #51 on: 07/29/2012 04:32 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.
Since when can't the Guppy cross oceans? Did it suddenly lose range since the 1990's when it was flown from France to Florida?

Which Guppy?
N941NA, the only one flying. While loaded to maximum, it's range is limited to 950 km, empty it's range is over 3200km, more then sufficient for the job. The SuperGuppy can lift over 24 metric tons. The DreamChaser is under 11 metric tons, which means that they will not be near capacity so would retain a good range.

The DC will require a pallet with tie downs and hence the mass will make the range and scenario unworkable. 

Offline Downix

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #52 on: 07/29/2012 04:43 AM »
Guppy can't cross oceans and the 124 isn't that expensive.  It is a frequent visitor to the Cape.
Since when can't the Guppy cross oceans? Did it suddenly lose range since the 1990's when it was flown from France to Florida?

Which Guppy?
N941NA, the only one flying. While loaded to maximum, it's range is limited to 950 km, empty it's range is over 3200km, more then sufficient for the job. The SuperGuppy can lift over 24 metric tons. The DreamChaser is under 11 metric tons, which means that they will not be near capacity so would retain a good range.

The DC will require a pallet with tie downs and hence the mass will make the range and scenario unworkable. 
You feel that the DC will need 12 metric tons of pallet and tie downs?
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline Jim

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #53 on: 07/29/2012 11:43 AM »

You feel that the DC will need 12 metric tons of pallet and tie downs?

no, just enough to make the range unusable for any trans Atlantic recovery.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #54 on: 07/29/2012 12:25 PM »
I went to bed and missed all the fun! I really don’t anticipate aborts on a regular basis flying on such a reliable launcher the Atlas-Centaur. I don’t have any potential loss of mission numbers. Any event is going to be a rare occasion IMHO. In the event of an abort, I already mentioned the SkyCrane, WK2, and I will add the Airbus Beluga (about 2 feet to spare) to the mix.
I still feel the WK2 should suffice with stops such as you would do with a single engine trans-Atlantic flight as necessary… All this before my morning coffee, so bear this in mind…  ;D

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« Last Edit: 07/29/2012 12:29 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline BrightLight

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #55 on: 07/30/2012 12:22 AM »
A new (?) youtube video of the DC CONOPS
clearly shows the crew access tower and the latest drawings of the vehicle.


Offline Prober

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #56 on: 07/30/2012 03:25 AM »
A new (?) youtube video of the DC CONOPS
clearly shows the crew access tower and the latest drawings of the vehicle.


real good, looks like DC is offering cargo services like Liberty.
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Offline Lee Jay

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #57 on: 07/30/2012 03:31 AM »
How can the Dream Chaser be transported back to the launch/processing site after landing at some random airport?

Any number of ways, including truck or ship in addition to the large cargo aircraft mentioned above.  It's not that big and shipping stuff that size all over the world is an every-day occurrence in many industries.

Offline arkaska

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #58 on: 08/05/2012 07:27 AM »
Sorry if this have been discussed before but there are to many pages to go through to see if it have been discussed before.

Since DC will stay docked to the ISS for ~6 months its heat-shield will be exposed to MMOD strikes. Is this a concern for NASA? When the shuttle was docked ISS was flying 'backwards' to offer some protection to the shuttles heat-shield but this won't be possible for DC and it will be in front of the ISS and therefore fully exposed to MMOD strikes.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: SNC Dream Chaser DISCUSSION Thread
« Reply #59 on: 08/05/2012 11:17 AM »
Sorry if this have been discussed before but there are to many pages to go through to see if it have been discussed before.

Since DC will stay docked to the ISS for ~6 months its heat-shield will be exposed to MMOD strikes. Is this a concern for NASA? When the shuttle was docked ISS was flying 'backwards' to offer some protection to the shuttles heat-shield but this won't be possible for DC and it will be in front of the ISS and therefore fully exposed to MMOD strikes.

Would a bullet proof shield, possible made out of Kevlar, placeable by the robotic arm be useful?

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