Author Topic: Proposed Europa Missions  (Read 336396 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1560 on: 04/26/2017 06:43 PM »
NASA and ESA join forces to build life-seeking Europa lander

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2128751-nasa-and-esa-join-forces-to-build-life-seeking-europa-lander/

The headline is misleading. It states that NASA and ESA have already done this. But the article indicates that this was a proposal at a science meeting.

Why don't you take that up with SN as they are the people linking to the article where I got it from.

http://spacenews.com/scientists-want-nasa-and-esa-to-work-together-on-a-europa-lander-mission/

Space News has a correct headline: "Scientists want NASA and ESA to work together on a Europa lander mission." That is accurate.

This New Scientist headline is inaccurate: "NASA and ESA join forces to build life-seeking Europa lander."

This Futurism headline is truly horrible: "Itís Official. In 2025, NASA and the ESA Will Land on Europa to Look For Alien Life"

The Space News short blurb is by Jeff Foust. I've known Jeff for about 15 years now. Jeff has a Ph.D. in planetary sciences from MIT. His writing is almost always very accurate. And he is very careful with interpreting his sources.

I am sure SN is fine but my point is they linked to the article & therefore promoted it to their readership.

Offline as58

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1561 on: 04/26/2017 06:47 PM »
This Futurism headline is truly horrible: "Itís Official. In 2025, NASA and the ESA Will Land on Europa to Look For Alien Life"

I like the headline. It's so unashamed in its beyond-wrongness.

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1562 on: 04/26/2017 09:31 PM »
It's almost like the job of the media is to sell, not be truthful or accurate.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1563 on: 04/26/2017 11:20 PM »
It's almost like the job of the media is to sell, not be truthful or accurate.

Well, we expect greater accuracy from the trade press. Why is New Scientist so sloppy?

Offline vjkane

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1564 on: 04/26/2017 11:41 PM »
It's almost like the job of the media is to sell, not be truthful or accurate.

Well, we expect greater accuracy from the trade press. Why is New Scientist so sloppy?
In my experience, New Scientist generally is pretty solid although they tend towards solid coverage of somewhat more sensational stories.  In some cases the reporting is sloppy.  My guess is that someone with no understanding of how missions actually get approved was handed a press release or the equivalent.

Offline as58

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1565 on: 04/27/2017 05:58 AM »
It's almost like the job of the media is to sell, not be truthful or accurate.

Well, we expect greater accuracy from the trade press. Why is New Scientist so sloppy?
In my experience, New Scientist generally is pretty solid although they tend towards solid coverage of somewhat more sensational stories.  In some cases the reporting is sloppy.  My guess is that someone with no understanding of how missions actually get approved was handed a press release or the equivalent.

New Scientist is fond of stories about very speculative theories. To their credit, they usually at least include a sceptical comment from some expert who is not directly involved in the work. Even in their news article they like to emphasise the sensational part  (there's always a miracle cure found or some impeding catastrophe is threatening), though they don't usually get things as clearly wrong as in this case.

New Scientist was really bad a few years ago, but they've maybe toned down their sensationalism a bit lately.

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1566 on: 04/27/2017 08:50 AM »
It's almost like the job of the media is to sell, not be truthful or accurate.

Well, we expect greater accuracy from the trade press. Why is New Scientist so sloppy?
In my experience, New Scientist generally is pretty solid although they tend towards solid coverage of somewhat more sensational stories.  In some cases the reporting is sloppy.  My guess is that someone with no understanding of how missions actually get approved was handed a press release or the equivalent.

New Scientist is fond of stories about very speculative theories. To their credit, they usually at least include a sceptical comment from some expert who is not directly involved in the work. Even in their news article they like to emphasise the sensational part  (there's always a miracle cure found or some impeding catastrophe is threatening), though they don't usually get things as clearly wrong as in this case.

New Scientist was really bad a few years ago, but they've maybe toned down their sensationalism a bit lately.

I am a regular reader and find that news pieces usually include a counter view to a varying extent. Not sure what happened with that headline as that was below their usual standards. Hopefully someone will flag it up in their letters page where you often get things like this that they are pulled up on.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1567 on: 04/27/2017 12:14 PM »

Offline Star One

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Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1568 on: 04/27/2017 12:38 PM »
Another example of a clickbait headline. You can read it in the url:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/cassini-spacecraft-nasa-loses-contact-dive-through-saturns-rings-grand-finale-a7703616.html

You can find loads of examples of such things online, so I am not sure what kind of point you're trying to prove here?
« Last Edit: 04/27/2017 12:38 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1569 on: 05/02/2017 05:15 PM »
Here's the relevant section.

NASA receives more than $19.6 billion in 2017 omnibus spending bill

Quote
That planetary science funding also includes $275 million for Europa missions, both the Europa Clipper multiple flyby spacecraft and a proposed lander. Language in the bill requires NASA to launch Europa Clipper no later than 2022 and the lander no later than 2024, although NASA officials have recently said they donít expect the lander mission to be ready for launch until at least 2025. The Trump administrationís 2018 budget blueprint supported Europa Clipper but included no funding for a Europa lander.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-receives-more-than-19-6-billion-in-2017-omnibus-spending-bill/#sthash.YUSbvZyG.dpuf

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1570 on: 05/11/2017 03:40 PM »
The sounds of Europa

Quote
Although there are no plans at present to send a lander to Europa, we continue to work on the prospects, asking what kind of operations would be possible there. NASA is, for example, now funding a miniature seismometer no more than 10 centimeters to the side, working with the University of Arizona on a project called Seismometers for Exploring the Subsurface of Europa (SESE). Is it possible our first task on Europaís surface will just be to listen?

The prospect is exciting because what weíd like to do is find a way to penetrate the surface ice to reach the deep saltwater ocean beneath or, barring that, any lakes that may occur within the upper regions of the ice shell. The ASU seismometer would give us considerable insights by using the movements of the ice crust to tell us how thick it is, and whether and where ocean water that rises to the surface can be sampled by future landers.

Quote
Seismometers would help us detect ongoing activity in the shell. ASU envisions a seismometer mounted on each leg of a lander ó four to six seismometers in all, depending on lander design. These would be driven deep into the ground, avoiding the kind of loose surface materials that would isolate the instruments from seismic waves passing through the shell. And that calls for the kind of rugged instrument ASU is building. Able to operate at any angle, the prototype can survive landings hard enough to ensure deep penetration for each seismometer.

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=37673

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1571 on: 05/19/2017 10:21 AM »
As noted by another poster.

Nasa seeks experiment ideas for Europa lander

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39964904

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1572 on: 05/23/2017 04:43 PM »
Budget Questions Hang Over NASAís Europa Lander

Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
HOUSTONóThere may or may not be funding for a multibillion dollar lander to seek evidence of life on the surface of Jupiterís ice-covered moon Europa in the Trump administrationís upcoming budget request. But the space agency is telling those interested in providing instruments for the mission not to lose ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/budget-questions-hang-over-nasa-s-europa-lander

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1573 on: 05/23/2017 05:24 PM »
You can find the Europa program in the NASA budget proposal. Somebody with more energy than I can cut it down to only the relevant parts and post them here.

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1574 on: 05/24/2017 07:31 PM »
Quote
Mike Brown @plutokiller

LOOK! fresh-from-the-satellite-link HST spectral slices of  Europa. Mmmmmm. Time to get to work!

More info on the link below.

https://mobile.twitter.com/plutokiller/status/867423347046350852

Offline GClark

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1575 on: 05/26/2017 08:52 AM »
You can find the Europa program in the NASA budget proposal. Somebody with more energy than I can cut it down to only the relevant parts and post them here.

Here are the parts that jumped out at me:

pg. PS-60:  "Costs and schedule for the current Europa Clipper mission design are not baselined, as the mission
                   is still in formulation and NASA does not commit to costs and schedules until KDP-C, however the
                   notional outyear profile in the Budget supports a launch in the mid-to-late-2020s."

pg. PS-61:  "The budget provides no funding for a multi-billion-dollar mission to land on Europa that was not in
                   the last Decadal Survey and would send another flagship mission to Europa before analysis of the
                   Europa Clipper data is completed."

pg. PS-62:  "Per Public Law 114-113, Division B, Title III, the following table provides rough estimates for the
                   current mission design, including launch vehicle, assuming launch in 2022. NASA does not
                   recommend acceleration of the launch to 2022, given potential impacts to the rest of the Science
                   portfolio. The Administration supports a balanced science program, as recommended in the
                   Decadal Survey.

                                               FY18    FY19   FY20   FY21   FY22
                   Europa 2022 ($M)  425.0  580.0  665.0  485.0  327.0

                   Note:  The Europa profile above assumes an Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle, as the cost of an
                   SLS flight is not yet known."

For comparison, the Requested budget profile (pg. PS-60) is:

     FY18    FY19   FY20   FY21    FY22
     425.0  303.0  215.7  432.4  253.6


Also on pg. PS-62, the project schedule:

PDR      Aug 2018
KDP-C   Sep 2018
CDR      Nov 2019
SIR       Sep 2020
KDP-D   Dec 2020
Launch   TBD


Last but not least, from pg. PS-63 comes this tidbit:

Estimated Life Cycle Cost Range ($M)     3,100 - 4,000

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1576 on: 05/26/2017 09:58 AM »
The bit about the lander is likely to be over-ridden by the politicians that's pretty clear by now.

Offline vjkane

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1577 on: 05/26/2017 04:45 PM »
The bit about the lander is likely to be over-ridden by the politicians that's pretty clear by now.
The politicians may make noise, but unless they increase the planetary budget by something on the order of $200M/year to keep the Clipper on a 2022 launch and then by several hundred million more a year for the lander, it is all noise.

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1578 on: 05/26/2017 04:53 PM »
The bit about the lander is likely to be over-ridden by the politicians that's pretty clear by now.
The politicians may make noise, but unless they increase the planetary budget by something on the order of $200M/year to keep the Clipper on a 2022 launch and then by several hundred million more a year for the lander, it is all noise.

Only time will tell on that.

Offline Blackstar

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