Author Topic: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020  (Read 68713 times)

Offline hal9000

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #20 on: 01/06/2012 09:55 AM »
I'm still unsure if the alternative design is an 'official' alternative, or just an enthusiasts idea.  Anyone have a view?

Offline apace

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #21 on: 01/06/2012 10:22 AM »
Chinese don't invent things. They copy it and make it from cheap materials. That station is a copy from old Russian technology. Although being an European, I think the US can top the Chinese easily just by constantly developing new tech AND keeping it a secret. This advice serves for space exploration and for your crappy cars.

You have no idea what's going on in China currently. You're phrase is full of wrong estimates. Simply check their university output of new engineers or their new high mark of new patents and you will see in which direction the Chinese economy is going.

Offline MikeMelga

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #22 on: 01/09/2012 12:16 AM »
Chinese don't invent things. They copy it and make it from cheap materials. That station is a copy from old Russian technology. Although being an European, I think the US can top the Chinese easily just by constantly developing new tech AND keeping it a secret. This advice serves for space exploration and for your crappy cars.

You have no idea what's going on in China currently. You're phrase is full of wrong estimates. Simply check their university output of new engineers or their new high mark of new patents and you will see in which direction the Chinese economy is going.
Remember that China is not Hong Kong or Shanghai. It is a vast country where most people worked on farms 10 years ago.

All I see is tech copied from Russians. They have a lot of money, they are starting to outsource tech outside (I was asked to develop a cheap auto focus lenses 2y ago) but the general feeling is that they have too much cash in hand to bother developing on their own. I've worked with Chinese engineers and believe me that they have a very long way to go.

One of the worst thing about Chinese is that they are not assertive. You ask a Yes or No question and the guy starts talking about something else. That is so profound that even most their languages don't have past/present/future conjugation of verbs. I could give you examples all night, but the bottom line is that their peculiar way of thinking does not make a good engineer.
I had several conversations with Chinese engineers and it was very frustrating. Oh, and one of them tried to sell me an orphan, but that's another thing about them: money 1st, money 1st, money 1st.

Offline manboy

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #23 on: 03/09/2012 09:47 AM »
Here's some promotional stuff.
« Last Edit: 03/09/2012 09:48 AM by manboy »
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline manboy

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #24 on: 03/09/2012 09:51 AM »
Here's some engineering type models from the first half of last year. You can see some type of robotic arm on the Core Module and it looks like there's an airlock on Lab Module 1.
« Last Edit: 03/09/2012 10:16 AM by manboy »
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline ChileVerde

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"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline JT355

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #26 on: 06/26/2012 08:10 AM »
Here are some new graphics for the 2020 space station. Fast forward to 1:30 in the video below:


Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #27 on: 06/26/2012 09:23 AM »
All the material I have seen appears to indicate that there will be only two modules docked gto the core, but there appear to be four lateral docking ports.  Is there any suggestion that they will be occupied at some stage?  It would push the final mass from 60 tonnes to ~100, more with Shenzhou and the supply craft attached
« Last Edit: 06/26/2012 09:42 AM by Dalhousie »
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #28 on: 06/26/2012 09:47 AM »
In which country were rockets invented? Where were man-carrying rockets first described?

Go on, guess!

Online Phillip Clark

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #29 on: 06/26/2012 12:16 PM »
Whilst I started this thread with 2020 being the approximate date for China's modular space station, it isn't clear whether 2020 is the target date for the main core module to be launched, followed by the two main plug-on modules or whether 2020 is the target date for all three modules to have been launched and be operating.

Does anyone who can read original Chinese material clarify this?   Of course, eight years into the future, probably the Chinese planners themselves do not know!

Offline yaohua2000

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #30 on: 06/26/2012 08:26 PM »
Whilst I started this thread with 2020 being the approximate date for China's modular space station, it isn't clear whether 2020 is the target date for the main core module to be launched, followed by the two main plug-on modules or whether 2020 is the target date for all three modules to have been launched and be operating.

Does anyone who can read original Chinese material clarify this?   Of course, eight years into the future, probably the Chinese planners themselves do not know!

The original announced completion year was 2020–2022. I think the core module should be launched some time around 2018. And I think the station weren't be end up only 60 tons. There are two unused docking ports, other "friendly" countries may contribute their own modules to the station as well.

Offline Moe Grills

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #31 on: 06/26/2012 08:51 PM »
Whilst I started this thread with 2020 being the approximate date for China's modular space station, it isn't clear whether 2020 is the target date for the main core module to be launched, followed by the two main plug-on modules or whether 2020 is the target date for all three modules to have been launched and be operating.

Does anyone who can read original Chinese material clarify this?   Of course, eight years into the future, probably the Chinese planners themselves do not know!

The original announced completion year was 2020–2022. I think the core module should be launched some time around 2018. And I think the station weren't be end up only 60 tons. There are two unused docking ports, other "friendly" countries may contribute their own modules to the station as well.

Won't Tiangong-3 serve as the core module?
  I'm taking my info from Wikipedia.  Tiangong-3 will have the size and
mass of each of the modules of the planned Modular Chinese Space Station. And according to Wikipedia, Tiangong-3 will be launched
around 2015. 
So for at least five years it appears, Tiangong-3 will orbit without additional modules.
Leaves me wondering what the Chinese manned psace program plans to
do between 2015 and 2020?
Send an upgraded Shenzhou to circle the Moon?
Send one to a NEO asteroid?

Offline BrightLight

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #32 on: 06/26/2012 08:57 PM »
Just looking at the pictures of the station with the three modules, it looks like it is under powered, not enough solar panels.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #33 on: 06/26/2012 09:38 PM »
How much power is required depends on the experiments planned, some are more power hungry than others. 

Basic life support isn't that demanding, about 1 kw per person, with some reycling of oxygen and water.  To support three people you only need about a 7 kW array

Also remember the steady improvments in solar panel efficiency, now over 30% (over 40% in the lab). I don't know what efficiency those on Mir were but given the construction period I would guess about 15%
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline WellingtonEast

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #34 on: 06/27/2012 12:22 AM »
I think the unknown here is launcher development.

The ISS was hobbled by utilising the Space Shuttle to launch many of its components.

I think the chinese will aim for a larger station (by volume) with less modules launched by larger rockets.



Offline Jim

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #35 on: 06/27/2012 01:36 AM »
I think the unknown here is launcher development.

The ISS was hobbled by utilising the Space Shuttle to launch many of its components.

I think the chinese will aim for a larger station (by volume) with less modules launched by larger rockets.

Fallacy

It wasn't the size of the shuttle that hobbled the ISS, it was that it was the only launcher.

ISS does not need more volume, nor did it need larger launchers

Offline WellingtonEast

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #36 on: 06/27/2012 03:36 AM »
Maybe the only launcher from USA perspective - but I thought the Russian Proton had a marginally larger capacity and was not constrained by the Cargo Bay size.

After all it launched some ISS components.

Assembly on ground in larger volume modules would have been cheaper than multiple modules which means multiple projects / launches and would have enabled the ISS to be completed sooner.

Maybe this way the ISS Centrifuge Accommodations Module would have made it to space.

As I said - it will be interesting to see the Chinese strategy unfold.

Online Phillip Clark

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #37 on: 06/27/2012 07:33 AM »
Perhaps Tiangong 3 will be prepresentative of the size, mass of the modular station's core module, but I would expect this to be more akin to a "Salyut 6/7" station rather than a "Mir" core module.

This would mean that the Chinese could get basic experience with Tiangong 1 and Tiangong 2 (using a modificed TG 1 back-up module?), with Tiangong 3 allowing longer piloted missions with the cargo variant of Tiangong annually (?) taking supplies to the station.

Remember that the schedule for Tiangong 3 (in particular) and the modular station are dependent upon the early success of the CZ-5 class launch vehicles.   Would the Chinese put Tiangong 3 on the very first CZ-5?

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #38 on: 06/27/2012 09:26 AM »
Such an approach would make sense to me.  It would also allow them to perfect multiple dockings and resupply.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Jim

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Re: Chinese Modular Space Station - circa 2020
« Reply #39 on: 06/27/2012 01:45 PM »
Assembly on ground in larger volume modules would have been cheaper than multiple modules which means multiple projects / launches and would have enabled the ISS to be completed sooner.

Unsubstantiated and basically wrong.  There is no data to support your claim.

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